Watching Dabs speak after the game I couldn't help think "this is the guy who's going to return the Giants to respectability."
Reminded a bit of last season, around this time, I really thought Abrams + Judge were going to be the winning combo to lead the team out of the dark ages. Yikes -- that didn't age well.
So what was your worst take?
Terrible Observation - (
New Window )
While he did wind up causing Mara to rip apart the front office, it was because of the exact opposite reason I was hoping for.
Same. Judge had me fooled big time.
I was foole into thinking Gettleman was making personnel decisions. But clearly no one that handsome could be so wrong.
You’re not wrong yet about SB. Year one proved that and then he became “crippled.” If he’s back, he may very well be just that..
Years ago I was wrong about Gilbride. I used to lay much blame at his feet. Turns out, he was an outstanding OC.
That's why as much as I like what I've seen and heard from Daboll to this point, I've got to remind myself to not get ahead of things.
That's why as much as I like what I've seen and heard from Daboll to this point, I've got to remind myself to not get ahead of things.
Yep, Learning isn’t always easy. I’m with ya, trying to learn from the past experience.
in my defense however ive wanted them to bring in callahan to coach to OL for almost a decade and had they done so maybe a lot of things go differently.
Oops
Gettleman began to lose me when he picked Barkley, and then ignored the offensive line last season
But my nomination is Golladay. At the time, I hated the signing at the price but I thought he would contribute something on the field. He and Solder mark the epitome of DG reaches, fill a positional need at any cost when the rest of your drafting and roster construction have gone to sh_t.
:- )
:- )
Lol no coincidence -- when perusing the archives for said thread I found that very embarrassing post of mine.
RE: Dabs & Schoen I'm very much in trust but verify mode.
i think judge was mostly the victim of 1 fatal flaw - he knew nothing about offense. which is a pretty big fatal flaw. many teams have successfully hired non-OC head coaches so it's not like this was a total unknown but put simply he didn't know what he didn't know, and nobody else did either. though there were a few in the giants org with the experience to have known better.
the rest is kind of noise because i do think a lot of the players liked judge and he did have some minor successes year 1. a bunch of pretty good FAs agreed to come play for him. until he got exposed for how little he knew about offense midway through year 2. that was the emperor has no clothes moment.
On the other hand, I hated Gettleman from Day 1, maybe earlier.
im not sure that's the case - if it was i think we would have seen him take a different job instead of participating in this season of Survivor: New England OC.
i think he went back to belichek because he knows it's a big gap in his knowledge base that he wants to fill before taking another job.
I never was a Judge believer. Don't care for Belichick/Saban disciples honestly. He was way over his head and set up for failure with Gettleman at the helm.
But I thought the team was playing hard for Judge, and would play smart and be prepared.
The Denver game to start the season was a real slap to the face.
The guy just went downhill right after week 1 2020.
Denver week 1 21 was so similar to week 1 2017 Dallas (mcadoo)
CFB will definitely be his quickest route back if that's what he wants. He could probably get a CFB job at a 2nd tier SEC school or non-top tier P5 school any year. If Leach doesn't work out MSU still makes a ton of sense.
Quote:
Eric -- my guess is one step further. I think Judge *believes* he should be leading an offense. He coached the WRs, he was a pretty good high school QB, back up at an SEC school where he was academic all American.
im not sure that's the case - if it was i think we would have seen him take a different job instead of participating in this season of Survivor: New England OC.
i think he went back to belichek because he knows it's a big gap in his knowledge base that he wants to fill before taking another job.
This is as close to leading an offense as he's going to get at this stage. You think someone was hiring him as an OC?
I think we are saying the same thing in some respects. Judge knows he has a big gap in his skillset as an offensive leader, and his path back to head coaching requires he be loads better at it.
it's arguable that he did improve the situation. his drafts were a step in the right direction and they featured mostly players from teams with his former colleagues/assistant coaches he hired (Thomas, McKinney, Ojulari, Robinson, etc).
And obviously it's highly likely he influenced the trade that ended up returning Thibodeaux.
Without that extra top 10 pick who knows how appealing this job would have been to schoen (and therefore daboll)?
A Ryan Poles/Brian Flores combination or the 49ers guy + McDaniel were probably real possibilities. Not that Schoen/Dabs necessarily have any better odds of succeeding at this point, but we clearly at least got our pick.
I thought Mara was so stuck in the Giants Way that he would continue to promote those who had been fully indoctrinated.
Quote:
In comment 15780411 christian said:
Quote:
Eric -- my guess is one step further. I think Judge *believes* he should be leading an offense. He coached the WRs, he was a pretty good high school QB, back up at an SEC school where he was academic all American.
im not sure that's the case - if it was i think we would have seen him take a different job instead of participating in this season of Survivor: New England OC.
i think he went back to belichek because he knows it's a big gap in his knowledge base that he wants to fill before taking another job.
This is as close to leading an offense as he's going to get at this stage. You think someone was hiring him as an OC?
I think we are saying the same thing in some respects. Judge knows he has a big gap in his skillset as an offensive leader, and his path back to head coaching requires he be loads better at it.
i dont know what opportunities he had but i think generally there is almost always a role with more responsibility available somewhere in CFB than the NFL. A lot more teams and job openings. Anything he does in NE will maybe check some more boxes but i don't it will get him another shot in the NFL until he does something outside of Belichek's shadow (which is most likely to happen at a second tier p5 school).
I thought Mara was so stuck in the Giants Way that he would continue to promote those who had been fully indoctrinated.
the good thing about bw posts is that you can recycle your own posts because his logic gaps never change.
Eric on Li : mute : 8/29/2021 4:37 pm : link
and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).
PIT and BAL are the first 2 that come to mind for me
Eric on Li : mute : 8/29/2021 4:46 pm : link
but there's not a ton to learn there because the bulk of their hires have been internal with the exception of Baltimore hiring Harbough, and if memory serves when they hired Harbaugh they really wanted to hire Garrett but Dallas denied permission. But Decosta and Colbert have each been in those organizations for 2 decades+.
Quote:
Not that I expected greatness but figured he would improve the situation. And he didn’t and became basically a joke last season.
it's arguable that he did improve the situation. his drafts were a step in the right direction and they featured mostly players from teams with his former colleagues/assistant coaches he hired (Thomas, McKinney, Ojulari, Robinson, etc).
And obviously it's highly likely he influenced the trade that ended up returning Thibodeaux.
Without that extra top 10 pick who knows how appealing this job would have been to schoen (and therefore daboll)?
A Ryan Poles/Brian Flores combination or the 49ers guy + McDaniel were probably real possibilities. Not that Schoen/Dabs necessarily have any better odds of succeeding at this point, but we clearly at least got our pick.
Drafts were marginally better. Don’t get yourself all that excited.
The best thing Judge did was allow the team to fall apart in the end and force the owners to blow it all up by getting rid of him along with most of the front office leadership by hiring through a credible GM search process.
I agree he needs to branch out from Belichick. But QB coach and defacto OC (if that's what he gets) isn't a low responsibility gig.
My guess is he does this for 1-2 years, and either gets a P5 HC gig or OC gig at one of the elite P5 schools.
Quote:
i dont know what opportunities he had but i think generally there is almost always a role with more responsibility available somewhere in CFB than the NFL. A lot more teams and job openings. Anything he does in NE will maybe check some more boxes but i don't it will get him another shot in the NFL until he does something outside of Belichek's shadow (which is most likely to happen at a second tier p5 school).
I agree he needs to branch out from Belichick. But QB coach and defacto OC (if that's what he gets) isn't a low responsibility gig.
My guess is he does this for 1-2 years, and either gets a P5 HC gig or OC gig at one of the elite P5 schools.
he didn't take the job as defacto OC though, he clearly knew he'd be auditioning with Patricia. he may not have had any other options in CFB beyond doing something similar at Bama this year though because of the timing of when he was fired being beyond when most CFB jobs had already been filled. There was probably a job on Napier's staff for him but that ship doesn't appear to be headed in the right direction.
As a side note what the heck is Judge doing calling plays again? I guess bellichek is being nice and letting him redeem himself for the qb sneak thing?
Quote:
I really liked the Golladay signing
You’re not wrong yet about SB. Year one proved that and then he became “crippled.” If he’s back, he may very well be just that..
Bruce, he has never been the best RB in the NFL even his rookie year and when he's been on the field after his rookie year he has at best been JAG. And JAG is likely being kind. He has so many warts that go beyond injury.
Quote:
that the baton was going to be passed from Gettleman to Abrams.
I thought Mara was so stuck in the Giants Way that he would continue to promote those who had been fully indoctrinated.
the good thing about bw posts is that you can recycle your own posts because his logic gaps never change.
Quote:
honest question - which owner/franchise is best at hiring GM/coaches?
Eric on Li : mute : 8/29/2021 4:37 pm : link
and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).
PIT and BAL are the first 2 that come to mind for me
Eric on Li : mute : 8/29/2021 4:46 pm : link
but there's not a ton to learn there because the bulk of their hires have been internal with the exception of Baltimore hiring Harbough, and if memory serves when they hired Harbaugh they really wanted to hire Garrett but Dallas denied permission. But Decosta and Colbert have each been in those organizations for 2 decades+.
Is there a link for more context?
Otherwise, this appears to be you having another self-congratulatory moment about something.
I agree he needs to branch out from Belichick. But QB coach and defacto OC (if that's what he gets) isn't a low responsibility gig.
My guess is he does this for 1-2 years, and either gets a P5 HC gig or OC gig at one of the elite P5 schools.
he didn't take the job as defacto OC though, he clearly knew he'd be auditioning with Patricia. he may not have had any other options in CFB beyond doing something similar at Bama this year though because of the timing of when he was fired being beyond when most CFB jobs had already been filled. There was probably a job on Napier's staff for him but that ship doesn't appear to be headed in the right direction.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. On one hand you're saying:
there is almost always a role with more responsibility available somewhere in CFB than the NFL
and then on the other:
he may not have had any other options in CFB beyond doing something similar at Bama this year though because of the timing of when he was fired being beyond when most CFB jobs had already been filled
The very simple point I am making is QB coach with a chance to be defacto OC for an NFL team isn't a low responsibility gig. And for a guy who had a gap in his skillset in leading an offense, it's the type of stepping stone he needs to take if he's going to be a HC who has input on the offense.
this year however that wasn't possible simply because of timing. he got fired january 11th when most CFB jobs were filled.
My humility knows now bounds my friend!