I was hammering the point that no matter what they added this offseaseason, this is still a 4-5 win team because they have ZERO meaningful depth at many positions. If anything, I think after seeing this team, I am concerned that my 4-5 win team might be optimistic.
The starting defense and starting OL are much improved, but there is literally nothing behind most of them- and we are already seeing the standard injuries that come with playing football (and have nothing to do with the trainers that the simple like to moan about).
By week 8, I think that the tank will be on because the injuries will have mounted to a point of no return- which happens with every team- only because of the cap situation, this team has NO depth unlike others that just plug in the next guy up.
This team is going in the right direction, but the cap and lack of ability to add depots means that this is going to be a year where they are simply deciding who is part of the future teams and who needs to be cut at the end of the season- and nothing more meaningful than that.
Is it the playcalling? The talent level? The execution?
Because as the king of wishful thinking, I'm hoping that Daboll taking full reins of the offensive playcalling would solve at least some of the issues.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
needs to go. His expiration date clearly ended 12/31/2000.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
If a team with an offense as inept as the Giants think he’s cooked, what makes you think anyone else is going to be willing to pay him over $13M this season (even after the bonus money gets amortized, the base pay is VERY high and that’s what gets traded)?
There is NO team in the league that will trade for him. They’ll just wait for the Giants to cut and and grab him for a song then.
Besides, with the cap hit and the Giants lack of cap space, they realistically can’t cut him until the off-season.
needs to go. His expiration date clearly ended 12/31/2000.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
No one is giving anything for Golladay at his $17m trade cap cost. However, I was wondering if someone would take him if we paid half (?) his salary this year. We’d still gain $8m in cap space and get him off the books for next year.
-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
needs to go. His expiration date clearly ended 12/31/2000.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
No one is giving anything for Golladay at his $17m trade cap cost. However, I was wondering if someone would take him if we paid half (?) his salary this year. We’d still gain $8m in cap space and get him off the books for next year.
Missing the point- a guy who can’t get separation against 2nd team DBs from the Pats or even the Giants DBs and won’t compete for 50-50 balls (see the dropped TD in the Pats game) isn’t someone ANY team would be willing to pay more than a minimum salary without guaranteed money to.
The problem with Golloday’s contract is that the full $17.5 he’s due in roster bonuses, salary and workout bonuses are FULLY GUARANTEED. Doesn’t matter what they do- he gets paid ALL of it.
The Giants would have to eat literally the entire amount to trade him- and they have less than $5M in cap space. How do you propose that they make up the difference between the $13M base salary and the less than $5M in cap space to make a trade work? Realistically- you can’t
-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
Bullshit. If Jones is completely incompetent, why should he just get to start? These coaches and players want to win games. Fans can hope and pray for losses if you’d like but coaches and players don’t give a damn about a draft pick 8 months from now. They are coaching and playing for their jobs.
The Jones scholarship is over. If the coaches feel he gives them the best chance to win, fine. If not, Taylor should play. Jones hasn’t earned shit.
This is where Mara really fucked up. And I kept yelling about it. Just stupid, stupid, stupid decision by Mara.
It sums up Mara’s MO here perfectly. He refuses to admit his mistakes and hurt his ego until it’s too late…only to take a bigger blow to his ego and embarrass him further. Didn’t he want to give Judge another year too?! It’s unreal
Pretty sure Gettleman outbid himself for Golladay too sigh.
A. Jackson was the player who really stood out on defense.
On offense, DJ just does not look comfortable. In fact, the other two QBs look extremely comfortable (maybe not surprising). I'll note it appeared DJ was only playing against the first team.
I am amazed that DJ can still not master the fade. On one to Golladay, the throw was rather good (and back shoulder) but with no separation the corner was able to defend it. My immediate reaction was it should have been throw higher to allow Golladay to use his wing span and high point it.
Later in practice, DJ was throwing it higher but too high, out of the receiver's (could not see who it was) reach. Again, he's throwing it, IMO, too much on a line and with not enough arch.
Barkley looked extremely fast - there's no tackling but he looks almost back to his original form which shouldn't be surprising after a year.
The other thing I noticed was during what I believe was a 2 minute drill, the HC, DC, and a few others were on the headset simulating a game. Had not seen that before.
This is where Mara really fucked up. And I kept yelling about it. Just stupid, stupid, stupid decision by Mara.
It really appears that Golladay needs to be paired a QB who will bury the throw into tight coverage (see Stafford) and allow him to make the contested catch.
Ever since he arrived, Golladay has not impressed spring and summer practices, and in preseason and regular season games.
Not sure what happened to him, but he doesn't look like the same receiver.
The $72 million may have made him less passionate about the game.
Well that's true, his effort seems to certainly be lacking.
But watch his highlights in DET, he never got separation. He was making catches with DBs all over him, and being VERY physical with the ball thrown in a tight spot including a ton over the middle.
Comparing Stafford's ability to whip it compared to DJ is not really a thing lol
in fact here's my first impression on watching Golladay's...
needs to go. His expiration date clearly ended 12/31/2000.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
If a team with an offense as inept as the Giants think he’s cooked, what makes you think anyone else is going to be willing to pay him over $13M this season (even after the bonus money gets amortized, the base pay is VERY high and that’s what gets traded)?
There is NO team in the league that will trade for him. They’ll just wait for the Giants to cut and and grab him for a song then.
Besides, with the cap hit and the Giants lack of cap space, they realistically can’t cut him until the off-season.
I don't know if the market would be non-existent, but it's probably narrow. I could see Denver having some interest since Patrick went down.
Again, I'll take anything for the guy. And it would save us $13M+ since it would be a post 6/1 trade.
touch the ball on about 80% of the offensive plays. Runs, short passes, wildcat, etc.
Reports like this make me think there is some juice to the Jimmy G reports. Please note I am not a fan of Jimmy nor do I think he is that good. However if Schoen/Daboll think that once the WR's and OL gets healthy we have enough to compete, they just may pull the trigger if they think the missing piece is Jones
being an owner who signs the checks for all these wasted signing bonuses that Gettleman ran up.
It doesn't matter because in the NFL, you can be dogshit Business owners without it truly affecting the bottom line. It's not just impossible to lose money, it's impossible to not makes scores of millions.
I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
Tyrod Taylor is not winning any more games than Daniel Jones as a starter. He is a known commodity, 10 years in the League, playing for multiple teams. There is no future in Taylor, besides maybe he is the Week 1 starter in 2023 until the rookie QB inevitably wins the job from him.
It’s looking pretty obvious which way the wind in blowing on Jones, but there is still a chance he could be the guy. So they need to learn something about him by letting him play. There is nothing to learn about Taylor.
I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
I think Mara was very sensitive to Gettleman's cancer ordeal. And wanted him to depart with some dignity.
In fact, I believe the cancer scare allowed Gettleman to complete his contract.
Look, Jones can still salvage Gettleman's legacy if he can deliver. The odds seem Powerball long at this point, but there is still a chance... ;)
Yeah, that's the thing about keeping a bad GM past his expiration date with the expectation of improvement: because he's a bad GM, his idea to improve the team is likely to be a bad one.
-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
I don't understand this view at all. I much prefer "the player that gives us the better chance to win is the one who plays."
The Giants 2022 season is not "The Daniel Jones Decision." At least until they are eliminated it is about qualifying for the playoffs. If Jones comes out in the first two games and plays poorly he should absolutely be on the bench. He should not get the same leeway as an established NFL QB to play out of a slump.
I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
It's not how the Mara's do business. That said, canning DG prior to the end of last season would not have added any real value outside of satisfying those who craved their pound plus of flesh so letting him retire gracefully was the correct decision.
These preseason reports on Jones playing with the first team read more like a player who should be worried about his roster spot versus a guy who has locked up the starting QB job.
RE: in fact here's my first impression on watching Golladay's...
Now that he has the money, maybe the commitment to how he has to play the game just isn't there.
Besides his fat bank account, I also suspect that he's got a bit of jackrabbit in him. JJ could still play, 2016 was proof. But once the Giants got back to the Giants of the 2010 decade (2020 too, and counting), he lost interest; he wanted his compete and his competitive nature to matter come season's end and when it didn't matter, his play reflected it.
Now JJ was not DG's signing, obviously, but he has just been so, so poor and spendthrift in figuring out what FA pieces should work given the team's big picture, which he misread horribly multiple times.
but who knows how it play out from that point. Be patient.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
What may be impacting Jones it has been made very clear to him he has to earn the right to stay. Don't be surprised if the pressure is mounting internally within him.
One of the big things when I look at QB's in college and leaders in general is how they handle stress. No doubt Jones is in that environment now imv. You either rise or fall.
Would have hoped both Jones and Golladay came out today
I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
Agreed. They shouldn’t of let him safe face. He was. A nightmare for this team 90% of the time. I would be shown the door by security at my job if I was that inept
I think our defense will have a chance to be ok this season
Nothing special, but it will keep us in some games. The offense is putrid and it’s going to be putrid. Our number one WR stinks, our #1 RB has had three rough years, we have no real Tight Ends and most importantly our QB hasn’t shown us anything to believe in him. The OL will probably be better barring injuries and the offensive coaching will be better than the Garrett/Kitchen crap, but we just are not a talented offensive team, especially when it comes to efficiency. Going to be a long, long season fellas—buckle up and hope in year 3 this new regime will have this thing back on track.
Now it seems worse. That was a concern with Sy’s original draft report for him. This is year four for Jones now, I don’t know how long the leash will be for him.
Some first team reps and really make this thing a competition for the sake of the progression of the rest of this offense. I think it’s clear as day that Jones is exactly what he has been and that’s not going to be on the Giants next season.
Some first team reps and really make this thing a competition for the sake of the progression of the rest of this offense. I think it’s clear as day that Jones is exactly what he has been and that’s not going to be on the Giants next season.
We know what Tyrod is too. You watch him at all since he's left Buffalo? Or even last week, for that matter. He is supposed to be accurate and he wasn't. His arm strength was lacking. He isn't winning any more games than #8.
If Giants draft a kid I hope he's given a fair shot at winning it rather than waste time with a 35 year old Tyrod freaking Taylor.
I think the D has the potential to be damn good, but might just run out of gas in some of these games because of the offensive incompetence. Like, the stuff we're reading about DJ, KG, & the like...not inspiring. I guess the one silver bullet is that Saquon looks good.
I doubt he will be on the team next year. I honestly hope we can pick up a decent QB prospect who is cut at the final 53 cutdown and maybe start developing that guy. I also wouldn’t mind trading DJ then and starting Taylor. One good thing I do like- not having to pay a QB 30-40 million per season. We may very well have another 4 years of a cheap Qb.
Offensive line look pathetic..And our Offensive line is making Jones look pathetic..And Jones is making the complete Offense look Pathetic...
Well I'm no genius,but one thing HAS to change..The O Line has to improve..Do you honestly believe Tom Brady could survive a complete season with the way this O Line has been working/playing ??? Well if your answer is NO,give yourself a gold medal.A qb,no matter how good,w/o a decent O LINE is not worth a plug nickel..
Imagine a world in which we HAD picked up DJ' 5th year option & he was looking like this? BBI would be en fuego.
I'm of the belief-which is further solidified by practices like today-that this is his last rodeo as the Giants starting QB & he'll be a backup somewhere next season.
WOW - 1 quarter, 2 drives in the first preseason game
No. It is based on YEARS of seeing these dudes in real action sucking. This isn't like DJ has been lighting up the NFL since '19 & he's had some bad practices. That could be written off. He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's a franchise QB & practices like today just reinforce that belief.
No. It is based on YEARS of seeing these dudes in real action sucking. This isn't like DJ has been lighting up the NFL since '19 & he's had some bad practices. That could be written off. He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's a franchise QB & practices like today just reinforce that belief.
Offensive line look pathetic..And our Offensive line is making Jones look pathetic..And Jones is making the complete Offense look Pathetic...
Well I'm no genius,but one thing HAS to change..The O Line has to improve..Do you honestly believe Tom Brady could survive a complete season with the way this O Line has been working/playing ??? Well if your answer is NO,give yourself a gold medal.A qb,no matter how good,w/o a decent O LINE is not worth a plug nickel..
And some QBs make their line look better by making quick reads and faster decisions. Joe Burrow played behind an absolutely terrible line last year and they got the Superbowl. I don't know that he could drag this team to a Superbowl, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the ceiling with this team is roughly the same with Jones as with anybody else.
QBs get paid the most money for a reason. They have the most direct impact on the team's performance. If your QB needs a talented and deep team all around him to win games, you don't have a very good one.
Tyrod Taylor is not winning any more games than Daniel Jones as a starter. He is a known commodity, 10 years in the League, playing for multiple teams. There is no future in Taylor, besides maybe he is the Week 1 starter in 2023 until the rookie QB inevitably wins the job from him.
It’s looking pretty obvious which way the wind in blowing on Jones, but there is still a chance he could be the guy. So they need to learn something about him by letting him play. There is nothing to learn about Taylor.
There is extremely little chance Jones is the guy. Almost as much chance that Taylor is the guy. We fucked up again, lost another year, instead of adding a young QB. Willis, Ridder, Howell etc... we are going with a known failure. Enjoy the season, kids.
-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
Bullshit. If Jones is completely incompetent, why should he just get to start? These coaches and players want to win games. Fans can hope and pray for losses if you’d like but coaches and players don’t give a damn about a draft pick 8 months from now. They are coaching and playing for their jobs.
The Jones scholarship is over. If the coaches feel he gives them the best chance to win, fine. If not, Taylor should play. Jones hasn’t earned shit.
it makes no sense to trade for a quality QB. Play the season, win 3 or 4, maybe 5 games, and draft a QB.
Was Pat Shurmur knowingly blowing smoke when he said DJ checked all the boxes? Maybe the guy doesn't know as much about QB's as we were led to believe. As head coach of the Browns, he was instrumental in drafting Brandon Weeden who was not good. That year the Browns passed on better quarterbacks Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, and Kirk Cousins.
Listen I know it’s super early in camp but to hear reports that the WR couldn’t separate from this group of secondary I can’t help but think of Wandale given how high we took him, should we expecting more?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
RE: If the receivers suck and the O-line is only okay
it makes no sense to trade for a quality QB. Play the season, win 3 or 4, maybe 5 games, and draft a QB.
Was Pat Shurmur knowingly blowing smoke when he said DJ checked all the boxes? Maybe the guy doesn't know as much about QB's as we were led to believe. As head coach of the Browns, he was instrumental in drafting Brandon Weeden who was not good. That year the Browns passed on better quarterbacks Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, and Kirk Cousins.
"Checks all the boxes" is coachspeak and means absolutely nothing.
But KG is all Joe Judge. He even went to Mara to get him signed. Contract was written by Abrams.
That’s BS. You don’t sign a guy for that much money if you not all on board. Even Mara is not that stupid. Also, Golloday never got that much separation as a WR. What he had was Stafford throwing a contested ball to him and he went up and got it. With Jones being a turnover machine, Garrett drilled into,him the need to,throw to an open receiver; that’s not Golloday. For sure there was a disconnect on the front office and coaches on Golloday’s usefulness. Someone mentioned above that once he got the big payout plus the understanding the team sucks, Golloday doesn’t care. Totally believable.
Listen I know it’s super early in camp but to hear reports that the WR couldn’t separate from this group of secondary I can’t help but think of Wandale given how high we took him, should we expecting more?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
It's weird Wandale, who I am optimistic about, was taken ahead of those 3 guys.
Some first team reps and really make this thing a competition for the sake of the progression of the rest of this offense. I think it’s clear as day that Jones is exactly what he has been and that’s not going to be on the Giants next season.
We know what Tyrod is too. You watch him at all since he's left Buffalo? Or even last week, for that matter. He is supposed to be accurate and he wasn't. His arm strength was lacking. He isn't winning any more games than #8.
If Giants draft a kid I hope he's given a fair shot at winning it rather than waste time with a 35 year old Tyrod freaking Taylor.
We know that Taylor has the ability to win NFL games and move an offense. He’s not great but let’s stop being delusional with DJ. He’s not good. He’s never been good and he’s not going to be good. I trust that Taylor will at the very least be able to move the ball with this offense and not turn it over constantly.
but who knows how it play out from that point. Be patient.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
there's always some excuse for Danny Boy, isn't there.
A cloud passed over the sun, the wind blew the wrong direction, Jerry Rice isn't out there at WR, and on and on and on.
It's SO obvious this guy ISN'T 'The Guy" yet people continue making the excuses for him and call anyone who dares question DJ's ability a "hater." I just don't get it.
RE: WOW - 1 quarter, 2 drives in the first preseason game
but who knows how it play out from that point. Be patient.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
there's always some excuse for Danny Boy, isn't there.
A cloud passed over the sun, the wind blew the wrong direction, Jerry Rice isn't out there at WR, and on and on and on.
It's SO obvious this guy ISN'T 'The Guy" yet people continue making the excuses for him and call anyone who dares question DJ's ability a "hater." I just don't get it.
Jerry Rice would easily be our WR1 and he’s like 60 years old.
Not a Jones hater but it’s obvious this 4th year is going nowhere fast. Anybody that keeps posting about haters at this point has nothing else intelligent to say or support their own position. If you do, will be happy to read and debate it...
but who knows how it play out from that point. Be patient.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
there's always some excuse for Danny Boy, isn't there.
A cloud passed over the sun, the wind blew the wrong direction, Jerry Rice isn't out there at WR, and on and on and on.
It's SO obvious this guy ISN'T 'The Guy" yet people continue making the excuses for him and call anyone who dares question DJ's ability a "hater." I just don't get it.
Jerry Rice would easily be our WR1 and he’s like 60 years old.
Not a Jones hater but it’s obvious this 4th year is going nowhere fast. Anybody that keeps posting about haters at this point has nothing else intelligent to say or support their own position. If you do, will be happy to read and debate it...
I was hoping Jones would “click” this offseason. He’s not the guy, let’s be honest with ourselves.
If Schoen or Daboll thought he had a realistic chance to be the QB of the future, they would have picked up his 5th year option to save the team some cap space if they thought he had even a 50% chance of being the future QB. The fact that they didn’t, and signed Tyrod to a 2 year deal, tells you they know he is not the future QB of this team.
And his performance in practice (Allen Iverson voice “practice”) being this poor speaks volumes. It’s a tough job, you can be 6’5, 230, good arm and still fail in the NFL. It’s instincts and what’s behind the ears that make great NFL QB’s. Jones doesn’t have what it takes.
It’s going to be painful watching this offense try to score TDs for yet another wasted season. But this is where we are until a new QB and some real playmakers develop or are found.
It’s going to be a popular 2023 draft for QBs...maybe we’ll get lucky.
It’s going to be painful watching this offense try to score TDs for yet another wasted season. But this is where we are until a new QB and some real playmakers develop or are found.
It’s going to be a popular 2023 draft for QBs...maybe we’ll get lucky.
I dont think it is wasted as long as the tackles continue to develop. I am not sure why folks think this roster is anything else other then a rebuild with a QB not here next year.
Giants might have to cut Golladay due to his lack of effort. The
other players are not going to stand to watch a player milk 72 mil while giving no effort on the field. I know its a cap hit..but this guy isn't giving the giants much of a choice.
Giants are one quality QB away from being a team to be reckoned
I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
It's not how the Mara's do business. That said, canning DG prior to the end of last season would not have added any real value outside of satisfying those who craved their pound plus of flesh so letting him retire gracefully was the correct decision.
Not how they do businss... except for their previous, 2-time Super Bowl winning GM?
Listen I know it’s super early in camp but to hear reports that the WR couldn’t separate from this group of secondary I can’t help but think of Wandale given how high we took him, should we expecting more?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
Wandale is a bust with a capital B
You need to realize that this team is in a total rebuild
I still want to see more than one preseason game before writing off KG. Same for Jones, although both should be on a "short lease." The best players play, as defined by their talent and motivation. Contracts are irrelevant. I'm sure the coaches feel the same way, especially since aside from their draft picks, they didn't acquire any of these players.
Listen I know it’s super early in camp but to hear reports that the WR couldn’t separate from this group of secondary I can’t help but think of Wandale given how high we took him, should we expecting more?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
If this team is healthy week 1 and there is no reason to think otherwise they are much improved from last season. DJ looked just fine in the first game. Its all about injuries for this team and so far nothing stands out other than Shane.
Listen I know it’s super early in camp but to hear reports that the WR couldn’t separate from this group of secondary I can’t help but think of Wandale given how high we took him, should we expecting more?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
but also remember this is a rebuild underway, it's going to be ugly at times before it gets better. There's holes all over the roster, and players that are probably only here because of their contracts.
I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
Agreed. They shouldn’t of let him safe face. He was. A nightmare for this team 90% of the time. I would be shown the door by security at my job if I was that inept
I think this talk is a waste of energy. Whether you liked DG or not, he's a man, was sick, made some bad decisions here as a GM. He's gone. No need to humiliate anyone.
but also remember this is a rebuild underway, it's going to be ugly at times before it gets better. There's holes all over the roster, and players that are probably only here because of their contracts.
Agree with all of this. Most of us are just tired of losing. At a minimum, we'd like to see progress with the new systems, player development, and Hope for next year.
No. It is based on YEARS of seeing these dudes in real action sucking. This isn't like DJ has been lighting up the NFL since '19 & he's had some bad practices. That could be written off. He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's a franchise QB & practices like today just reinforce that belief.
Spot on!
There are many new faces on this team that will be key pieces to this year s rendition.
Not necessarily true that we have seen this for years from these guys.
You can correctly cite that his Giants tenure was marked with instability, but the elephant in the room that people seem to want to ignore is that with 4 years of high level coaching and pro prep in college he wasn't particularly good.
And some QBs make their line look better by making quick reads and faster decisions. Joe Burrow played behind an absolutely terrible line last year and they got the Superbowl. I don't know that he could drag this team to a Superbowl, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the ceiling with this team is roughly the same with Jones as with anybody else.
QBs get paid the most money for a reason. They have the most direct impact on the team's performance. If your QB needs a talented and deep team all around him to win games, you don't have a very good one.
Burrow did a great job with a bad offensive line. He also had Jamarr Chase, Mixon, Boyd, and Higgins. Eli did a great job with a bad offensive line in 2011. He also had Nicks, Cruz, Ballard, and Manningham. Some QBs can mitigate bad offensive play with quick decisions and accuracy. Jones doesn’t. But NO QB does it with a bad o-line, poor receivers, and a bad running game.So whatever one thinks of Daniel Jones, it would be silly to expect Tyrod Taylor or next year’s QB to succeed with a struggling OL and bad receivers.
A good QB doesn’t need everything around him to be great. But he does need something to work. Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, etc aren’t doing it by themselves. No one should expect Jones to do so.
For a QB to look that poor consistently in camp after 3 years
Offensive line look pathetic..And our Offensive line is making Jones look pathetic..And Jones is making the complete Offense look Pathetic...
Well I'm no genius,but one thing HAS to change..The O Line has to improve..Do you honestly believe Tom Brady could survive a complete season with the way this O Line has been working/playing ??? Well if your answer is NO,give yourself a gold medal.A qb,no matter how good,w/o a decent O LINE is not worth a plug nickel..
And some QBs make their line look better by making quick reads and faster decisions. Joe Burrow played behind an absolutely terrible line last year and they got the Superbowl. I don't know that he could drag this team to a Superbowl, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the ceiling with this team is roughly the same with Jones as with anybody else.
QBs get paid the most money for a reason. They have the most direct impact on the team's performance. If your QB needs a talented and deep team all around him to win games, you don't have a very good one.
Youre leaving out one major difference with Burrow and Jones. Burrow has one of the best receiving corps and the Giants have one of the worst. Im not comparing the 2 QBs, just the personnel. The worst OL, worst WRs and worst group of RBs last season compared to what the Bengals had.
Again this season is not looking good because DJ hasnt shown he can elevate players around him, he needs help. But Golladay seems like he has given up and Toney has been injured so we again are looking at 2nd tier WRs. Bottom tier TEs and maybe better RBs if Barkley can stay healthy. The OL will improve throughout the season but it seems like we are stating off injured.
For those clamoring for Taylor to start, he is not a starting NFL QB. He looked good initially in the 1st game but then the wheels fell off and he was horrible. I'd rather take a chance on DJ in the new system then have Taylor start. If the coaches really thought Taylor was the better option he would be getting 1st team reps. Its that simple. If you start to see Taylor getting 1st team reps without a DJ injury then Taylor will most likely be starting early in the season. Until tat time there is not QB controversy.
RE: Is it the playcalling? The talent level? The execution?
Because as the king of wishful thinking, I'm hoping that Daboll taking full reins of the offensive playcalling would solve at least some of the issues.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
These are the stupid comments that I read on here all the time. What exactly did DJ do that was awful in the 1st preseason game? he was 6 0f 10. His WR short arms a ball with no effort that would have lead to a td was that his fault? I get the hating on him because that is real popular but how about waiting for him to do something awful for it to happen. Look he missed an open guy in the flat that would have gone for about 7 or 8 yds. There are 2 of the incompletions off the top of my head. DJ did not look like a lost cause playing the other night. Games mean more to me than practice.
RE: WOW - 1 quarter, 2 drives in the first preseason game
Because as the king of wishful thinking, I'm hoping that Daboll taking full reins of the offensive playcalling would solve at least some of the issues.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
These are the stupid comments that I read on here all the time. What exactly did DJ do that was awful in the 1st preseason game? he was 6 0f 10. His WR short arms a ball with no effort that would have lead to a td was that his fault? I get the hating on him because that is real popular but how about waiting for him to do something awful for it to happen. Look he missed an open guy in the flat that would have gone for about 7 or 8 yds. There are 2 of the incompletions off the top of my head. DJ did not look like a lost cause playing the other night. Games mean more to me than practice.
How about waiting til he’s not playing backups before we start patting him on the back.
being an owner who signs the checks for all these wasted signing bonuses that Gettleman ran up.
But in the end, the owner hired the GM, so there's that.
And then allowed the GM to "retire" without extracting a pound of flesh even for optics to appease the fanbase.
John Mara would have been universally celebrated by Giants fans if he had fired DG even a day before the end of the season. Instead, the Gettleman family was allowed to pose for on-field selfies.
being an owner who signs the checks for all these wasted signing bonuses that Gettleman ran up.
But in the end, the owner hired the GM, so there's that.
And then allowed the GM to "retire" without extracting a pound of flesh even for optics to appease the fanbase.
John Mara would have been universally celebrated by Giants fans if he had fired DG even a day before the end of the season. Instead, the Gettleman family was allowed to pose for on-field selfies.
The damage “letting things play out” has done to this franchise since 2016 is too much to count.
RE: RE: Is it the playcalling? The talent level? The execution?
Because as the king of wishful thinking, I'm hoping that Daboll taking full reins of the offensive playcalling would solve at least some of the issues.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
These are the stupid comments that I read on here all the time. What exactly did DJ do that was awful in the 1st preseason game? he was 6 0f 10. His WR short arms a ball with no effort that would have lead to a td was that his fault? I get the hating on him because that is real popular but how about waiting for him to do something awful for it to happen. Look he missed an open guy in the flat that would have gone for about 7 or 8 yds. There are 2 of the incompletions off the top of my head. DJ did not look like a lost cause playing the other night. Games mean more to me than practice.
He never should have thrown that pass in the first place. He had Johnson wide open for a TD.
Hating? Get real. It is what it is. Plain as day. The game is just too fast for him. Even against backups! If you rather not see it that's your issue.
there's something very clear and consistent that Daniel Jones is doing wrong, so I really don't quite understand all of the posters who are saying "how is it his fault?" or something along those lines. Sy laid it out for you clear as day:
Jones is holding the ball for 4 seconds before throwing it. good QBs hold the ball for less than 3 seconds. 3 seconds is the "alarm bell" moment, and Jones is snoozing on the alarm every morning.
NO WONDER pass rushers are getting home.
NO WONDER wide receivers short arm his throws.
NO WONDER it always seems like he's under pressure and hurrying his decisions.
he's holding the ball for too damn long.
now, you can speculate as to WHY he's holding the ball too long all you want. but the bottom line is he can't process what he's seeing on the field fast enough. pure and simple. the defenders are faster than his brain.
Tyrod Taylor is not the guy you put behind center if you're intending to be a contender in any given season, I'll concede that point. but he processes the game faster than DJ does and thus, he can be more productive in this offense. in any offense, frankly.
there is no longer any "upside" to the Daniel Jones argument. it's over. DJ will probably start for the first 2-4 games out of pure buyer's remorse, but TT will be the starter by Week 5. book it.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
The starting defense and starting OL are much improved, but there is literally nothing behind most of them- and we are already seeing the standard injuries that come with playing football (and have nothing to do with the trainers that the simple like to moan about).
By week 8, I think that the tank will be on because the injuries will have mounted to a point of no return- which happens with every team- only because of the cap situation, this team has NO depth unlike others that just plug in the next guy up.
This team is going in the right direction, but the cap and lack of ability to add depots means that this is going to be a year where they are simply deciding who is part of the future teams and who needs to be cut at the end of the season- and nothing more meaningful than that.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
Fine with me.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
If a team with an offense as inept as the Giants think he’s cooked, what makes you think anyone else is going to be willing to pay him over $13M this season (even after the bonus money gets amortized, the base pay is VERY high and that’s what gets traded)?
There is NO team in the league that will trade for him. They’ll just wait for the Giants to cut and and grab him for a song then.
Besides, with the cap hit and the Giants lack of cap space, they realistically can’t cut him until the off-season.
But in the end, the owner hired the GM, so there's that.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
No one is giving anything for Golladay at his $17m trade cap cost. However, I was wondering if someone would take him if we paid half (?) his salary this year. We’d still gain $8m in cap space and get him off the books for next year.
- The ones who do have size can’t get open
- Oh, BTW, there’s no talent at TE
Is Tyrod Taylor doing better with these same pieces against defensive starters?
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being an owner who signs the checks for all these wasted signing bonuses that Gettleman ran up.
But in the end, the owner hired the GM, so there's that.
It's the Circle of, well, something...
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
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needs to go. His expiration date clearly ended 12/31/2000.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
No one is giving anything for Golladay at his $17m trade cap cost. However, I was wondering if someone would take him if we paid half (?) his salary this year. We’d still gain $8m in cap space and get him off the books for next year.
Missing the point- a guy who can’t get separation against 2nd team DBs from the Pats or even the Giants DBs and won’t compete for 50-50 balls (see the dropped TD in the Pats game) isn’t someone ANY team would be willing to pay more than a minimum salary without guaranteed money to.
The problem with Golloday’s contract is that the full $17.5 he’s due in roster bonuses, salary and workout bonuses are FULLY GUARANTEED. Doesn’t matter what they do- he gets paid ALL of it.
The Giants would have to eat literally the entire amount to trade him- and they have less than $5M in cap space. How do you propose that they make up the difference between the $13M base salary and the less than $5M in cap space to make a trade work? Realistically- you can’t
- The ones who do have size can’t get open
- Oh, BTW, there’s no talent at TE
Is Tyrod Taylor doing better with these same pieces against defensive starters?
If we're going on the first preseason game, I thought Taylor was lucky he didn't throw 2-3 picks.
This is where Mara really fucked up. And I kept yelling about it. Just stupid, stupid, stupid decision by Mara.
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-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
- The ones who do have size can’t get open
- Oh, BTW, there’s no talent at TE
Is Tyrod Taylor doing better with these same pieces against defensive starters?
No.
If Jones can't get it together, this offense will not function.
Pray Schoen and Daboll get their guy in the draft.
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-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
Bullshit. If Jones is completely incompetent, why should he just get to start? These coaches and players want to win games. Fans can hope and pray for losses if you’d like but coaches and players don’t give a damn about a draft pick 8 months from now. They are coaching and playing for their jobs.
The Jones scholarship is over. If the coaches feel he gives them the best chance to win, fine. If not, Taylor should play. Jones hasn’t earned shit.
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And letting him sign Golladay was utterly stupid
This is where Mara really fucked up. And I kept yelling about it. Just stupid, stupid, stupid decision by Mara.
It sums up Mara’s MO here perfectly. He refuses to admit his mistakes and hurt his ego until it’s too late…only to take a bigger blow to his ego and embarrass him further. Didn’t he want to give Judge another year too?! It’s unreal
Pretty sure Gettleman outbid himself for Golladay too sigh.
A. Jackson was the player who really stood out on defense.
On offense, DJ just does not look comfortable. In fact, the other two QBs look extremely comfortable (maybe not surprising). I'll note it appeared DJ was only playing against the first team.
I am amazed that DJ can still not master the fade. On one to Golladay, the throw was rather good (and back shoulder) but with no separation the corner was able to defend it. My immediate reaction was it should have been throw higher to allow Golladay to use his wing span and high point it.
Later in practice, DJ was throwing it higher but too high, out of the receiver's (could not see who it was) reach. Again, he's throwing it, IMO, too much on a line and with not enough arch.
Barkley looked extremely fast - there's no tackling but he looks almost back to his original form which shouldn't be surprising after a year.
The other thing I noticed was during what I believe was a 2 minute drill, the HC, DC, and a few others were on the headset simulating a game. Had not seen that before.
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And letting him sign Golladay was utterly stupid
This is where Mara really fucked up. And I kept yelling about it. Just stupid, stupid, stupid decision by Mara.
It really appears that Golladay needs to be paired a QB who will bury the throw into tight coverage (see Stafford) and allow him to make the contested catch.
DJ is not that QB.
Ever since he arrived, Golladay has not impressed spring and summer practices, and in preseason and regular season games.
Not sure what happened to him, but he doesn't look like the same receiver.
The $72 million may have made him less passionate about the game.
Ever since he arrived, Golladay has not impressed spring and summer practices, and in preseason and regular season games.
Not sure what happened to him, but he doesn't look like the same receiver.
The $72 million may have made him less passionate about the game.
Well that's true, his effort seems to certainly be lacking.
But watch his highlights in DET, he never got separation. He was making catches with DBs all over him, and being VERY physical with the ball thrown in a tight spot including a ton over the middle.
Comparing Stafford's ability to whip it compared to DJ is not really a thing lol
Dude takes a pounding. Immediately, I'm thinking he's not going to hold up physically. Typical Giant signing lol
Now that he has the money, maybe the commitment to how he has to play the game just isn't there.
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needs to go. His expiration date clearly ended 12/31/2000.
Let's eat the money and move on. Trade him for anything.
If a team with an offense as inept as the Giants think he’s cooked, what makes you think anyone else is going to be willing to pay him over $13M this season (even after the bonus money gets amortized, the base pay is VERY high and that’s what gets traded)?
There is NO team in the league that will trade for him. They’ll just wait for the Giants to cut and and grab him for a song then.
Besides, with the cap hit and the Giants lack of cap space, they realistically can’t cut him until the off-season.
I don't know if the market would be non-existent, but it's probably narrow. I could see Denver having some interest since Patrick went down.
Again, I'll take anything for the guy. And it would save us $13M+ since it would be a post 6/1 trade.
Reports like this make me think there is some juice to the Jimmy G reports. Please note I am not a fan of Jimmy nor do I think he is that good. However if Schoen/Daboll think that once the WR's and OL gets healthy we have enough to compete, they just may pull the trigger if they think the missing piece is Jones
It doesn't matter because in the NFL, you can be dogshit Business owners without it truly affecting the bottom line. It's not just impossible to lose money, it's impossible to not makes scores of millions.
I wish the NFL had relegation.
It’s looking pretty obvious which way the wind in blowing on Jones, but there is still a chance he could be the guy. So they need to learn something about him by letting him play. There is nothing to learn about Taylor.
I think Mara was very sensitive to Gettleman's cancer ordeal. And wanted him to depart with some dignity.
In fact, I believe the cancer scare allowed Gettleman to complete his contract.
Look, Jones can still salvage Gettleman's legacy if he can deliver. The odds seem Powerball long at this point, but there is still a chance... ;)
Yeah, that's the thing about keeping a bad GM past his expiration date with the expectation of improvement: because he's a bad GM, his idea to improve the team is likely to be a bad one.
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-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
I don't understand this view at all. I much prefer "the player that gives us the better chance to win is the one who plays."
The Giants 2022 season is not "The Daniel Jones Decision." At least until they are eliminated it is about qualifying for the playoffs. If Jones comes out in the first two games and plays poorly he should absolutely be on the bench. He should not get the same leeway as an established NFL QB to play out of a slump.
It's not how the Mara's do business. That said, canning DG prior to the end of last season would not have added any real value outside of satisfying those who craved their pound plus of flesh so letting him retire gracefully was the correct decision.
Besides his fat bank account, I also suspect that he's got a bit of jackrabbit in him. JJ could still play, 2016 was proof. But once the Giants got back to the Giants of the 2010 decade (2020 too, and counting), he lost interest; he wanted his compete and his competitive nature to matter come season's end and when it didn't matter, his play reflected it.
Now JJ was not DG's signing, obviously, but he has just been so, so poor and spendthrift in figuring out what FA pieces should work given the team's big picture, which he misread horribly multiple times.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
What may be impacting Jones it has been made very clear to him he has to earn the right to stay. Don't be surprised if the pressure is mounting internally within him.
One of the big things when I look at QB's in college and leaders in general is how they handle stress. No doubt Jones is in that environment now imv. You either rise or fall.
But these two aren’t a positive combination whatsoever.
Funny -- but sad and probably true
Agreed. They shouldn’t of let him safe face. He was. A nightmare for this team 90% of the time. I would be shown the door by security at my job if I was that inept
We know what Tyrod is too. You watch him at all since he's left Buffalo? Or even last week, for that matter. He is supposed to be accurate and he wasn't. His arm strength was lacking. He isn't winning any more games than #8.
If Giants draft a kid I hope he's given a fair shot at winning it rather than waste time with a 35 year old Tyrod freaking Taylor.
I know, I’m open to moving away from DJ now.
Well I'm no genius,but one thing HAS to change..The O Line has to improve..Do you honestly believe Tom Brady could survive a complete season with the way this O Line has been working/playing ??? Well if your answer is NO,give yourself a gold medal.A qb,no matter how good,w/o a decent O LINE is not worth a plug nickel..
I'm of the belief-which is further solidified by practices like today-that this is his last rodeo as the Giants starting QB & he'll be a backup somewhere next season.
Lets paly it out a couple of weeks.
Spot on!
Well I'm no genius,but one thing HAS to change..The O Line has to improve..Do you honestly believe Tom Brady could survive a complete season with the way this O Line has been working/playing ??? Well if your answer is NO,give yourself a gold medal.A qb,no matter how good,w/o a decent O LINE is not worth a plug nickel..
And some QBs make their line look better by making quick reads and faster decisions. Joe Burrow played behind an absolutely terrible line last year and they got the Superbowl. I don't know that he could drag this team to a Superbowl, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the ceiling with this team is roughly the same with Jones as with anybody else.
QBs get paid the most money for a reason. They have the most direct impact on the team's performance. If your QB needs a talented and deep team all around him to win games, you don't have a very good one.
It’s looking pretty obvious which way the wind in blowing on Jones, but there is still a chance he could be the guy. So they need to learn something about him by letting him play. There is nothing to learn about Taylor.
There is extremely little chance Jones is the guy. Almost as much chance that Taylor is the guy. We fucked up again, lost another year, instead of adding a young QB. Willis, Ridder, Howell etc... we are going with a known failure. Enjoy the season, kids.
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In comment 15780673 ColHowPepper said:
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-Aaron Robinson was tested several times on corner fade passes to Kenny Golladay. The second-year corner from UCF won every single one. While Golladay + Jones may not be the best metric to measure against, he got the job done with great techniques and ball location. Golladay did not come down with any of the targets thrown his way. Robinson was tested physically via positioning more than athletically down the field. The thing I look for here is timing and accuracy. Timing to get after the ball at the right moment, accuracy with his hands to get the ball and avoid penalties. He passed his tests there over and over.
As did the Pats' DBs on Golladay. I made that point in game thread and Sy's review thread: Jones' issues aside, Golladay makes Robinson look like an All Pro.
On Jones, jeez, some of the reports, including this one of Sy's, make you wonder if he makes it through camp as starter. Worrisome, for him and the club, to say the least. He's got to be pressing big time and it seems he's not handling it well.
There is absolutely no reason, besides injury, for Jones not to be starting. Taylor isn’t the future and he’s not a 10-win QB. They have to let Jones sink or swim.
Bullshit. If Jones is completely incompetent, why should he just get to start? These coaches and players want to win games. Fans can hope and pray for losses if you’d like but coaches and players don’t give a damn about a draft pick 8 months from now. They are coaching and playing for their jobs.
The Jones scholarship is over. If the coaches feel he gives them the best chance to win, fine. If not, Taylor should play. Jones hasn’t earned shit.
...and... we agree completely.
Was Pat Shurmur knowingly blowing smoke when he said DJ checked all the boxes? Maybe the guy doesn't know as much about QB's as we were led to believe. As head coach of the Browns, he was instrumental in drafting Brandon Weeden who was not good. That year the Browns passed on better quarterbacks Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, and Kirk Cousins.
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
Was Pat Shurmur knowingly blowing smoke when he said DJ checked all the boxes? Maybe the guy doesn't know as much about QB's as we were led to believe. As head coach of the Browns, he was instrumental in drafting Brandon Weeden who was not good. That year the Browns passed on better quarterbacks Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, and Kirk Cousins.
"Checks all the boxes" is coachspeak and means absolutely nothing.
That’s BS. You don’t sign a guy for that much money if you not all on board. Even Mara is not that stupid. Also, Golloday never got that much separation as a WR. What he had was Stafford throwing a contested ball to him and he went up and got it. With Jones being a turnover machine, Garrett drilled into,him the need to,throw to an open receiver; that’s not Golloday. For sure there was a disconnect on the front office and coaches on Golloday’s usefulness. Someone mentioned above that once he got the big payout plus the understanding the team sucks, Golloday doesn’t care. Totally believable.
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
It's weird Wandale, who I am optimistic about, was taken ahead of those 3 guys.
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Some first team reps and really make this thing a competition for the sake of the progression of the rest of this offense. I think it’s clear as day that Jones is exactly what he has been and that’s not going to be on the Giants next season.
We know what Tyrod is too. You watch him at all since he's left Buffalo? Or even last week, for that matter. He is supposed to be accurate and he wasn't. His arm strength was lacking. He isn't winning any more games than #8.
If Giants draft a kid I hope he's given a fair shot at winning it rather than waste time with a 35 year old Tyrod freaking Taylor.
We know that Taylor has the ability to win NFL games and move an offense. He’s not great but let’s stop being delusional with DJ. He’s not good. He’s never been good and he’s not going to be good. I trust that Taylor will at the very least be able to move the ball with this offense and not turn it over constantly.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
there's always some excuse for Danny Boy, isn't there.
A cloud passed over the sun, the wind blew the wrong direction, Jerry Rice isn't out there at WR, and on and on and on.
It's SO obvious this guy ISN'T 'The Guy" yet people continue making the excuses for him and call anyone who dares question DJ's ability a "hater." I just don't get it.
Lets paly it out a couple of weeks.
It's not the two drives that are the problem.
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but who knows how it play out from that point. Be patient.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
there's always some excuse for Danny Boy, isn't there.
A cloud passed over the sun, the wind blew the wrong direction, Jerry Rice isn't out there at WR, and on and on and on.
It's SO obvious this guy ISN'T 'The Guy" yet people continue making the excuses for him and call anyone who dares question DJ's ability a "hater." I just don't get it.
Jerry Rice would easily be our WR1 and he’s like 60 years old.
Not a Jones hater but it’s obvious this 4th year is going nowhere fast. Anybody that keeps posting about haters at this point has nothing else intelligent to say or support their own position. If you do, will be happy to read and debate it...
The pressure is on Jones, who it appears does not play well under pressure.
I want Jones to succeed, but doesn't look good right now. Let's all hope his light goes on.
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In comment 15780757 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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but who knows how it play out from that point. Be patient.
It's still early, some OL issues and WR's that have been injured or are new.
there's always some excuse for Danny Boy, isn't there.
A cloud passed over the sun, the wind blew the wrong direction, Jerry Rice isn't out there at WR, and on and on and on.
It's SO obvious this guy ISN'T 'The Guy" yet people continue making the excuses for him and call anyone who dares question DJ's ability a "hater." I just don't get it.
Jerry Rice would easily be our WR1 and he’s like 60 years old.
Not a Jones hater but it’s obvious this 4th year is going nowhere fast. Anybody that keeps posting about haters at this point has nothing else intelligent to say or support their own position. If you do, will be happy to read and debate it...
I was hoping Jones would “click” this offseason. He’s not the guy, let’s be honest with ourselves.
If Schoen or Daboll thought he had a realistic chance to be the QB of the future, they would have picked up his 5th year option to save the team some cap space if they thought he had even a 50% chance of being the future QB. The fact that they didn’t, and signed Tyrod to a 2 year deal, tells you they know he is not the future QB of this team.
And his performance in practice (Allen Iverson voice “practice”) being this poor speaks volumes. It’s a tough job, you can be 6’5, 230, good arm and still fail in the NFL. It’s instincts and what’s behind the ears that make great NFL QB’s. Jones doesn’t have what it takes.
It’s going to be a popular 2023 draft for QBs...maybe we’ll get lucky.
It’s going to be a popular 2023 draft for QBs...maybe we’ll get lucky.
I dont think it is wasted as long as the tackles continue to develop. I am not sure why folks think this roster is anything else other then a rebuild with a QB not here next year.
They are a lot more than a QB away
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I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
It's not how the Mara's do business. That said, canning DG prior to the end of last season would not have added any real value outside of satisfying those who craved their pound plus of flesh so letting him retire gracefully was the correct decision.
Not how they do businss... except for their previous, 2-time Super Bowl winning GM?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
Wandale is a bust with a capital B
Thanks Sy for your detailed reviews
I still want to see more than one preseason game before writing off KG. Same for Jones, although both should be on a "short lease." The best players play, as defined by their talent and motivation. Contracts are irrelevant. I'm sure the coaches feel the same way, especially since aside from their draft picks, they didn't acquire any of these players.
I don't see anyone trading for KG.
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Listen I know it’s super early in camp but to hear reports that the WR couldn’t separate from this group of secondary I can’t help but think of Wandale given how high we took him, should we expecting more?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
Wandale is a bust with a capital B
<Eyeroll>
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Listen I know it’s super early in camp but to hear reports that the WR couldn’t separate from this group of secondary I can’t help but think of Wandale given how high we took him, should we expecting more?
It’s hard not to read the hype around George Pickens, Alec Piece, Sky Moore and the list goes on who was drafted later.
Wandale is a bust with a capital B
Already? Damn that was quick.
Fucking lunacy around here
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I know it is a minor thing to some, but DG being allowed to parade around the field prior to season finale/allowed to 'retire' instead of being canned still doesn't sit well with me. Worst hire in Giants history, even worse than Ray.
Agreed. They shouldn’t of let him safe face. He was. A nightmare for this team 90% of the time. I would be shown the door by security at my job if I was that inept
I think this talk is a waste of energy. Whether you liked DG or not, he's a man, was sick, made some bad decisions here as a GM. He's gone. No need to humiliate anyone.
Agree with all of this. Most of us are just tired of losing. At a minimum, we'd like to see progress with the new systems, player development, and Hope for next year.
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No. It is based on YEARS of seeing these dudes in real action sucking. This isn't like DJ has been lighting up the NFL since '19 & he's had some bad practices. That could be written off. He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's a franchise QB & practices like today just reinforce that belief.
Spot on!
There are many new faces on this team that will be key pieces to this year s rendition.
Not necessarily true that we have seen this for years from these guys.
You can correctly cite that his Giants tenure was marked with instability, but the elephant in the room that people seem to want to ignore is that with 4 years of high level coaching and pro prep in college he wasn't particularly good.
And some QBs make their line look better by making quick reads and faster decisions. Joe Burrow played behind an absolutely terrible line last year and they got the Superbowl. I don't know that he could drag this team to a Superbowl, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the ceiling with this team is roughly the same with Jones as with anybody else.
QBs get paid the most money for a reason. They have the most direct impact on the team's performance. If your QB needs a talented and deep team all around him to win games, you don't have a very good one.
Burrow did a great job with a bad offensive line. He also had Jamarr Chase, Mixon, Boyd, and Higgins. Eli did a great job with a bad offensive line in 2011. He also had Nicks, Cruz, Ballard, and Manningham. Some QBs can mitigate bad offensive play with quick decisions and accuracy. Jones doesn’t. But NO QB does it with a bad o-line, poor receivers, and a bad running game.So whatever one thinks of Daniel Jones, it would be silly to expect Tyrod Taylor or next year’s QB to succeed with a struggling OL and bad receivers.
A good QB doesn’t need everything around him to be great. But he does need something to work. Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, etc aren’t doing it by themselves. No one should expect Jones to do so.
I'm terrified of what DJ is going to look like in games again this season.
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Offensive line look pathetic..And our Offensive line is making Jones look pathetic..And Jones is making the complete Offense look Pathetic...
Well I'm no genius,but one thing HAS to change..The O Line has to improve..Do you honestly believe Tom Brady could survive a complete season with the way this O Line has been working/playing ??? Well if your answer is NO,give yourself a gold medal.A qb,no matter how good,w/o a decent O LINE is not worth a plug nickel..
And some QBs make their line look better by making quick reads and faster decisions. Joe Burrow played behind an absolutely terrible line last year and they got the Superbowl. I don't know that he could drag this team to a Superbowl, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the ceiling with this team is roughly the same with Jones as with anybody else.
QBs get paid the most money for a reason. They have the most direct impact on the team's performance. If your QB needs a talented and deep team all around him to win games, you don't have a very good one.
Youre leaving out one major difference with Burrow and Jones. Burrow has one of the best receiving corps and the Giants have one of the worst. Im not comparing the 2 QBs, just the personnel. The worst OL, worst WRs and worst group of RBs last season compared to what the Bengals had.
Again this season is not looking good because DJ hasnt shown he can elevate players around him, he needs help. But Golladay seems like he has given up and Toney has been injured so we again are looking at 2nd tier WRs. Bottom tier TEs and maybe better RBs if Barkley can stay healthy. The OL will improve throughout the season but it seems like we are stating off injured.
For those clamoring for Taylor to start, he is not a starting NFL QB. He looked good initially in the 1st game but then the wheels fell off and he was horrible. I'd rather take a chance on DJ in the new system then have Taylor start. If the coaches really thought Taylor was the better option he would be getting 1st team reps. Its that simple. If you start to see Taylor getting 1st team reps without a DJ injury then Taylor will most likely be starting early in the season. Until tat time there is not QB controversy.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
These are the stupid comments that I read on here all the time. What exactly did DJ do that was awful in the 1st preseason game? he was 6 0f 10. His WR short arms a ball with no effort that would have lead to a td was that his fault? I get the hating on him because that is real popular but how about waiting for him to do something awful for it to happen. Look he missed an open guy in the flat that would have gone for about 7 or 8 yds. There are 2 of the incompletions off the top of my head. DJ did not look like a lost cause playing the other night. Games mean more to me than practice.
Lets paly it out a couple of weeks.
Exactly
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Because as the king of wishful thinking, I'm hoping that Daboll taking full reins of the offensive playcalling would solve at least some of the issues.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
These are the stupid comments that I read on here all the time. What exactly did DJ do that was awful in the 1st preseason game? he was 6 0f 10. His WR short arms a ball with no effort that would have lead to a td was that his fault? I get the hating on him because that is real popular but how about waiting for him to do something awful for it to happen. Look he missed an open guy in the flat that would have gone for about 7 or 8 yds. There are 2 of the incompletions off the top of my head. DJ did not look like a lost cause playing the other night. Games mean more to me than practice.
How about waiting til he’s not playing backups before we start patting him on the back.
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being an owner who signs the checks for all these wasted signing bonuses that Gettleman ran up.
But in the end, the owner hired the GM, so there's that.
And then allowed the GM to "retire" without extracting a pound of flesh even for optics to appease the fanbase.
John Mara would have been universally celebrated by Giants fans if he had fired DG even a day before the end of the season. Instead, the Gettleman family was allowed to pose for on-field selfies.
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In comment 15780666 Eric from BBI said:
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being an owner who signs the checks for all these wasted signing bonuses that Gettleman ran up.
But in the end, the owner hired the GM, so there's that.
And then allowed the GM to "retire" without extracting a pound of flesh even for optics to appease the fanbase.
John Mara would have been universally celebrated by Giants fans if he had fired DG even a day before the end of the season. Instead, the Gettleman family was allowed to pose for on-field selfies.
The damage “letting things play out” has done to this franchise since 2016 is too much to count.
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Because as the king of wishful thinking, I'm hoping that Daboll taking full reins of the offensive playcalling would solve at least some of the issues.
Though in DJ and Golladay's cases, they seem to be lost causes.
These are the stupid comments that I read on here all the time. What exactly did DJ do that was awful in the 1st preseason game? he was 6 0f 10. His WR short arms a ball with no effort that would have lead to a td was that his fault? I get the hating on him because that is real popular but how about waiting for him to do something awful for it to happen. Look he missed an open guy in the flat that would have gone for about 7 or 8 yds. There are 2 of the incompletions off the top of my head. DJ did not look like a lost cause playing the other night. Games mean more to me than practice.
He never should have thrown that pass in the first place. He had Johnson wide open for a TD.
Hating? Get real. It is what it is. Plain as day. The game is just too fast for him. Even against backups! If you rather not see it that's your issue.
Also, why do you hate Maryland so much?...
Jones is holding the ball for 4 seconds before throwing it. good QBs hold the ball for less than 3 seconds. 3 seconds is the "alarm bell" moment, and Jones is snoozing on the alarm every morning.
NO WONDER pass rushers are getting home.
NO WONDER wide receivers short arm his throws.
NO WONDER it always seems like he's under pressure and hurrying his decisions.
he's holding the ball for too damn long.
now, you can speculate as to WHY he's holding the ball too long all you want. but the bottom line is he can't process what he's seeing on the field fast enough. pure and simple. the defenders are faster than his brain.
Tyrod Taylor is not the guy you put behind center if you're intending to be a contender in any given season, I'll concede that point. but he processes the game faster than DJ does and thus, he can be more productive in this offense. in any offense, frankly.
there is no longer any "upside" to the Daniel Jones argument. it's over. DJ will probably start for the first 2-4 games out of pure buyer's remorse, but TT will be the starter by Week 5. book it.