Giants cannot stay healthy, common denominator over the years is Ronnie Barnes. Strength and conditioning coaches have changed, Giants invested in new technology and updated the training facility. Is there more still around than just him but I remember him being around when Simms was on the team. You would think there are more modern ideas. Would think this guy has to be at least mid 60’s. Is the guy Teflon?
Ronnie Barnes (American football) - ( New Window )
I do sometimes wonder if the Giants have a more conservative approach to timelines and are not as eager to have guys play through injuries or push themselves to return to the field quickly.
Some of it has to be player evaluations- drafting and signing guys with injury history. For many injury prone athletes, it's not a coincidence- some guys bodies don't hold up well, or their running/cutting forms & techniques may make them more susceptible, or some guys just don't train their bodies & care for them like a professional athlete should.
Some of it is just bad luck. Gates gets rolled up on, Saquon had that weird basketball injury stepping on a guys foot, etc
So when you look at the 'games missed' numbers in a vacuum, Giants should be towards the top. They've been bad, theres been more 'business decisions'
They have been playing overly safe.....and might be just that.....holding out players.
Not disagreeing with OP.....but let's wait until regular season.....to see how injured are the Giants
There are only so many types of stretches, weightlifting exercises et al that you can teach, all with variations..
It’s a brutal sport with bigger and bigger and faster physical specimens banging heads, doing different contortions on bodies not made for many of these movements..A lot of these practice surfaces do not lend to as much safety as is claimed, imv and that’s why, perhaps, we see as many non-contact injuries as we do.
We follow our team FAR MORE than any other one with extreme closeness and scrutiny.
Sure, I’ll have to admit getting frustrated with all “our” injuries and sometimes we do rank near the bottom..
One of the main things I follow during all of Sy’s college write-ups is BODY TYPE. For example, I believe he asserted (I could be mistaken) that regardless of upside, Becton’s body type does not lend to longevity. There are many of these examples that I pay close attention to..
Finally, if we went back to the reporting during the golden years of the ‘80s, minor injuries were not reported, Parcells didn’t address them unless they were major. Thus, we had no idea what bumps and bruises players carried to games each week.
Now, every twist, turn, fart are reported in real time, so the angst becomes palpable with fans..
This! Football is the hardest hitting of the 4 major sports and it's not even close. People get hurt. It's part of the game.
- A backup rookie Safety in Belton who got hurt but will be back.
- Backup rookie Guard in McKethan who probably would have played very little.
- Sounds like Lemieux is going to be out for some time, so one of the starting Guard spots is up for grabs. Not even sure Lemieux was going to hold off Ezeudu for that job anyway but it hurts depth.
- Starting Center Feliciano being out would be a problem if his new injury from yesterday is serious. Giants have really nothing credible at this position.
Some other dings/bruises from backup Tight Ends, CBs, etc. that are being managed but not really IR-related yet.
It's not a good or deep roster as we all know soo injuries of any type will result in an impact. But not sure the above equates to a big dropoff anywhere but Center.
Said much better than I did..😎
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It is football, a brutal sport, with people who have virtually maxxed out their bodies and the weakest link will fail with just a little more stress - joints and ligaments.
Said much better than I did..😎
This is the same for ALL players and teams. So, the injury rate should be similar for all teams. It is not. This doesn't answer why we are as injured as we are.
this makes sense
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This is an ongoing theme with the Giants. If you dig back into the annals of AGL over the past decade on the website Football Outsiders, you’ll see the Giants either led the NFL in that infamous category or were very to close to leading it, including last season.
Yes you can. When the players on a team have less athletic ability then other teams, they will get hurt more often. They can be as strong as the next guy, but because they have less athletic ability, their bodies will give out sooner because it is being asked to do more then it is physically capable of.
Have you ever noticed that crappier teams seem to be more injured than good teams?
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This isn't a coincidence. It's a trend.
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This is an ongoing theme with the Giants. If you dig back into the annals of AGL over the past decade on the website Football Outsiders, you’ll see the Giants either led the NFL in that infamous category or were very to close to leading it, including last season.
Yes you can. When the players on a team have less athletic ability then other teams, they will get hurt more often. They can be as strong as the next guy, but because they have less athletic ability, their bodies will give out sooner because it is being asked to do more then it is physically capable of.
Have you ever noticed that crappier teams seem to be more injured than good teams?
Lol. You aren't serious with this are you? There are facts proving the Giants are more injured than most, if not all, teams. You then change your argument from ALL players to now players who have less athletic ability. Stop it. What is your criteria? How do you measure that? Is Toney, Shep, Odell, Barkley, Jones, etc. less athletic than the average? No offense but what a ridiculous argument.
I don't know what the answer is. However, I know what the issue is and they need to figure it out.
And bad teams are more injured may be mixing cause and effect. The Giants are bad in part because they’re so injured. The league is so competitive that if you get enough starters out, you struggle.
The fact is we’ve been among the most injured. But the cause of that is unclear. Pointing to 1 guy without a working theory as to why is just lashing out. Correlation isn’t causation. They’ve also had the same front office secretary, maybe it’s her fault. That bitch!
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In comment 15781055 robbieballs2003 said:
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This isn't a coincidence. It's a trend.
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This is an ongoing theme with the Giants. If you dig back into the annals of AGL over the past decade on the website Football Outsiders, you’ll see the Giants either led the NFL in that infamous category or were very to close to leading it, including last season.
Yes you can. When the players on a team have less athletic ability then other teams, they will get hurt more often. They can be as strong as the next guy, but because they have less athletic ability, their bodies will give out sooner because it is being asked to do more then it is physically capable of.
Have you ever noticed that crappier teams seem to be more injured than good teams?
Lol. You aren't serious with this are you? There are facts proving the Giants are more injured than most, if not all, teams. You then change your argument from ALL players to now players who have less athletic ability. Stop it. What is your criteria? How do you measure that? Is Toney, Shep, Odell, Barkley, Jones, etc. less athletic than the average? No offense but what a ridiculous argument.
I don't know what the answer is. However, I know what the issue is and they need to figure it out.
I have not changed my answer, I never said all players, except that almost all players have maxxed out their bodies which over stresses it. I have always maintained that teams with bad rosters are the most injured. Just my observation.
You seem hell bent on condemning so you explain it. They have changed S&C coaches, adopted monitoring methods, have had designated rest days - and yet they seem to get injuries at a higher rate? Is it the medical department or the type of players they sign? Could it be the guidance of Ronnie Barnes? Yes it could be. But the Giants also employ some of the best MDs, also. So if it is Barnes, why haven't the MDs whispered in Mara's ear?
I think there may be something to body types and muscle (natural versus other) that contributes but maybe that is just me. Overtraining has long been known to contribute to injury but the Giants utilize GPS and they seem to certain do a lot of walk through practices. Really not sure how you stop broken bones.
Someone posted that Buffalo did not do squats during the season so I am sure JS has looked at the program and worked with the appropriate where/if needed with suggestions.
I think there may be something to body types and muscle (natural versus other) that contributes but maybe that is just me. Overtraining has long been known to contribute to injury but the Giants utilize GPS and they seem to certain do a lot of walk through practices. Really not sure how you stop broken bones.
Someone posted that Buffalo did not do squats during the season so I am sure JS has looked at the program and worked with the appropriate where/if needed with suggestions.
Good job, per usual.
Team Doctor: Diagnose injuries, treat things within their realm, communicate with surgeons etc.. when needed. All of their job is "after the fact" when it comes to injuries.
We can't hang this on Ronnie Barnes at all. Also remember he has people underneath him helping the team.
I think we come to find that the injury bug is more complex than we think it was, if we were looking at one simple thing it would have been solved already. Likely, its a mix of the types of players we were drafting, our team stinking, the condition of the practice field, the condition of our playing field and the strength and condition programs. We can also factor in who our players workout with in the offseason.
Either way, I get wanting to point to 1 thing here, but I don't think its a reality. We're going to find this is a complex problem with a correspondingly complex solution.
How many strength coaches have the giants had since Coughlin? Any less injuries?
Also, show me other team's injury lists. Let's compare, then worry about crying how only the Giants get hurt.
2. He's been there 40 years. I guess you can also blame him for a couple of Super Bowls, too.
Convienently, no one has responded to your post here.
That and also in recent years the Giants have had to rely on fringe guys (later round picks and/or guys that fell for a reason or are projects, like Peart or Lemieux or Elerson Smith) because the overall talent level on the team is so bad.
And my non-scientific opinion is that these guys that aren't that athletically talented or don't come from major football programs tend to get injured when they face the grind of NFL practices and games.
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In comment 15781060 section125 said:
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In comment 15781055 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
This isn't a coincidence. It's a trend.
Quote:
This is an ongoing theme with the Giants. If you dig back into the annals of AGL over the past decade on the website Football Outsiders, you’ll see the Giants either led the NFL in that infamous category or were very to close to leading it, including last season.
Yes you can. When the players on a team have less athletic ability then other teams, they will get hurt more often. They can be as strong as the next guy, but because they have less athletic ability, their bodies will give out sooner because it is being asked to do more then it is physically capable of.
Have you ever noticed that crappier teams seem to be more injured than good teams?
Lol. You aren't serious with this are you? There are facts proving the Giants are more injured than most, if not all, teams. You then change your argument from ALL players to now players who have less athletic ability. Stop it. What is your criteria? How do you measure that? Is Toney, Shep, Odell, Barkley, Jones, etc. less athletic than the average? No offense but what a ridiculous argument.
I don't know what the answer is. However, I know what the issue is and they need to figure it out.
I have not changed my answer, I never said all players, except that almost all players have maxxed out their bodies which over stresses it. I have always maintained that teams with bad rosters are the most injured. Just my observation.
You seem hell bent on condemning so you explain it. They have changed S&C coaches, adopted monitoring methods, have had designated rest days - and yet they seem to get injuries at a higher rate? Is it the medical department or the type of players they sign? Could it be the guidance of Ronnie Barnes? Yes it could be. But the Giants also employ some of the best MDs, also. So if it is Barnes, why haven't the MDs whispered in Mara's ear?
I am hellbent on condemning who exactly? I very clearly stated that I don't know what the answer is but I sure as hell don't have my head in the sand thinking this is not a problem. There is a problem. To ignore that and say that it is just that players are bigger and stronger is being naive. Run a simulation of anything. The odds of one out of 32 showing up 10 times is miniscule. This isn't chance or luck. This is a trend.
Your other example, Kadarius Toney, is exceptionally athletic and spent all his time at Florida, another football factory with all the bells and whistles.
That team's main players stayed healthy for the whole season.
Things happen, they also play on garbage field turf at Metlife which is also does not help things.
Barkley's two main injuries (ankle & knee) were a byproduct of the manner in which he was tackled. I do know that Jonathan Taylor of the Colts uses hot yoga as part of his S&C routine. It would probably be useful for Barkley. With the amount of weight these guys can put up in the gym, the hot yoga is a great way to help with mobility and flexibility.
Perhaps it is Meadowlands bad Ju Ju remember the Cancer cluster we had in the 80's ?
" A lot of holes in the swamp, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes..."
PS Jets had a major injury this week...
People get hurt
Finally, if we went back to the reporting during the golden years of the ‘80s, minor injuries were not reported, Parcells didn’t address them unless they were major. Thus, we had no idea what bumps and bruises players carried to games each week.
Now, every twist, turn, fart are reported in real time, so the angst becomes palpable with fans..
NFL 2032 - a bad fart grants a player a recovery day or two.
Whether this falls on Barnes or not,who knows.But I don't think it's a good sign of how this team is run.
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This isn't a coincidence. It's a trend.
Quote:
This is an ongoing theme with the Giants. If you dig back into the annals of AGL over the past decade on the website Football Outsiders, you’ll see the Giants either led the NFL in that infamous category or were very to close to leading it, including last season.
Yes you can. When the players on a team have less athletic ability then other teams, they will get hurt more often. They can be as strong as the next guy, but because they have less athletic ability, their bodies will give out sooner because it is being asked to do more then it is physically capable of.
Have you ever noticed that crappier teams seem to be more injured than good teams?
Do crappy teams have more injured players or are they crappy because they have more insured players?
As far as Ronnie Barnes goes he'll be with the Giants until he doesn't want to be anymore. He is an unofficial part of the Mara family at this point. I have no idea what he does or doesn't do or how hands on he is with the players.
Go back and read about the hours after Plaxico shot himself and you'll see how powerful person Ronnie Barnes is in the Giants organization. By the way if you believe Pat Hanlon's version of the events - which landed Burress in jail - then I have a good deal on the Lincoln Tunnel for you.
Questions still remain who told Plaxico to register at the hospital under an alias and why didn't the hospital call the police as they are required to by law?
Barnes told them which hospital to go to.
Hanlon said Mark Drakos, the affiliated Hospital for Special Surgery orthopedic fellow on call that night, was then paged by the on-call orthopedic resident at New York-Cornell, who told him Burress was admitted to the ER.
Hanlon said Drakos also provides “support for the medical care provided the Giants.”
“En route to the hospital, Drakos called Ronnie to make certain he was aware of the situation,” Hanlon said.
Drakos examined Burress, but “did not have any interaction with the emergency-room physician,” Hanlon said.
“When Ronnie arrived at the hospital, he asked to see Plaxico, by name, and was taken to the room in which he was being treated,” Hanlon said.
“Ronnie sat outside to await information. He later learned that Plaxico had been issued a hospital ID bracelet with an alias. Neither Ronnie nor the Giants had any involvement with Plaxico being admitted under a false name.”
Sources told the Post that Burress never gave a false name, adding to the mystery of who did.
Hanlon said that Barnes had only a brief encounter with emergency room Dr. Josyann Abisaab. He added that Barnes was not in the room when she was treating Burress and that the Giants “have not had any relationship with Dr. Abisaab.”
Also yesterday, several sources contradicted claims by law-enforcement sources that Abisaab – who has been suspended by New York-Cornell in connection with the case – was summoned in the middle of the night to treat Burress’ gunshot wound. Sources said that when Burress arrived at the hospital, Abisaab, 44, was working a regularly scheduled shift, as she routinely does.
“This notion that she was parachuted in just for [Burress] . . . is false,” a source said.
Another source said Abisaab spent only about 15 minutes attending to Burress, who then spent 11 hours in the hospital.
A lawyer for Abisaab declined to comment. The hospital has come under sharp criticism for failing to notify authorities about a gunshot wound, as legally required.
Other teams adapt well because it's a true next guy up.
Also, the correlation may just be that the Giants have been a shitty team for a decade so there's no point in most players rushing back from an injury to play when there isn't something on the line to play for. Seems silly to me to grab a pitchfork against a single person that aside from stretching and nutrition and rest, how are you supposed to prevent these things from happening? Someone can look perfectly fine one play and then their ACL snaps the next play.
I do think DJ would have played again last year if we had any chance. I saw him live running around and throwing in Miami. I dont think he would have been doing those things if he was really that far off. Again just a guess on my part.
As for Barnes, he's considered an honorary Mara from all accounts so don't expect his ass to be shown the door.
I think there may be something to body types and muscle (natural versus other) that contributes but maybe that is just me. Overtraining has long been known to contribute to injury but the Giants utilize GPS and they seem to certain do a lot of walk through practices. Really not sure how you stop broken bones.
Someone posted that Buffalo did not do squats during the season so I am sure JS has looked at the program and worked with the appropriate where/if needed with suggestions.
It varies from team to team but I heard one SnC coach (I forget his name off the top of my head) say that the most important person to get to buy in to the SnC program is the HC. They work together on making sure players are not just in shape and maintaining work capacity, but also recovered appropriately. In season training is likely going to be much lighter weight and a team 86ing a certain movement doesn't surprise me, although squats specifically does a bit.