is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
Yeah I don't think Taylor is particularly good. I do think Jones is that bad. And I would like to see more winning football. So I'd like to see TT starting even though I know that will never happen. Well not until the team loses with Jones starting
is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
+1. Sy's reports do not confirm Taylor is better than Jones. If anything they confirm they both are low average QB's. I dislike people making stuff up and citing it as fact.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
I thought I did address this. Taylor has a better QBR, TD/INT ratio, YPA, AY/A.
I think you challenged the results because Taylor hasn't done anything the last four years. Well, of course he hasn't. He's been hurt a ton and backed-up Watson, Herbert and Mayfield.
is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
I m taking liberties here, but from your consistent take on Jones I thinking you would rank him somewhere in the high 40 s low 50 s as a quarterback; most all other starters and several back ups would be ranked higher.
If this turns out to be true, it casts severe doubt on the team of Schoen and Daboll, to evaluate talent and just throw away a season on someone with no potential to be anything but what you claim him to be.
I think it’s clear based on several metrics. The issue is that Taylor statistically has been tailing off, while admittedly playing for some awful teams. It’s one if those situations where you really need to compare their performance in camp and preseason directly and see which is better because the numbers can be read different ways.
+1. Sy's reports do not confirm Taylor is better than Jones. If anything they confirm they both are low average QB's. I dislike people making stuff up and citing it as fact.
That is not true. In a number of his reports, Sy stated that TT looked more decisive and was the better QB that day. That is a fact.
+1. Sy's reports do not confirm Taylor is better than Jones. If anything they confirm they both are low average QB's. I dislike people making stuff up and citing it as fact.
That is not true. In a number of his reports, Sy stated that TT looked more decisive and was the better QB that day. That is a fact.
How dare you actually read those daily reports... ;)
I was going to pull the quotes, but it's likely not worth it...
Sy's reports must be really difficult to decipher for BBIers.
I m taking liberties here, but from your consistent take on Jones I thinking you would rank him somewhere in the high 40 s low 50 s as a quarterback; most all other starters and several back ups would be ranked higher.
If this turns out to be true, it casts severe doubt on the team of Schoen and Daboll, to evaluate talent and just throw away a season on someone with no potential to be anything but what you claim him to be.
I never looked at it with that much granularity. I try to keep it as Jones being a starter vs the other starters in the league.
When I do that, it seems reasonable to rank Jones as a player in the bottom third of the league amongst his peers.
It will all be clearer a few weeks from now but it’s probably fair
To say that Jason Garrett was getting the best out of Jones. The ‘Garrett Was Incompetent’ narrative on BBI may be comprehensively rewritten in the next couple of months.
If Jones cannot play better than Taylor what difference does it makes? It means we have two below average quarterbacks.
In that case in order to be competitive, we need great defense and a strong run grade.
I think the defense baring injuries will be top ten
So we need an O line that can run block and Barkley to stay healthy and return to rookie form. This is also possible.
We don't have any quarterback that can carry this team. It's a team sport we have to count on other elements to carry the team and not the quarterback.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
I thought I did address this. Taylor has a better QBR, TD/INT ratio, YPA, AY/A.
I think you challenged the results because Taylor hasn't done anything the last four years. Well, of course he hasn't. He's been hurt a ton and backed-up Watson, Herbert and Mayfield.
So just so were clear, you are going off his 2017 production, do I have that right?
especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Against 3rd and 4th stringers last week. He was constantly late and inaccurate in throws. Some of his throws were completed but since there were underthrown or behind…. YAC opportunities were lost. He had about 4-5 passes where a better defender would have INT opportunities.
Taylor has better pocket awareness than Jones which would probably be beneficial for us… but there’s a reason why no one ever saw him as a QB of the future guy. Lacks arm strength as well.
I am no hurry to hand him the reigns. If Jones sucks for 3-4 games, then fine.
it's about being able to evaluate your young tackles. It's harder to do that when they know they are going to have to block forever because their QB has terrible awareness and no internal clock.
You want to know what you have in Toney, Robinson, even if KG has anything for you and it's hard to do that when you have a QB that reads the field poorly and zeroes in on his first reads.
To me starting Taylor is much more about not letting Jones drag down the performance of other players that are more important to evaluate than Jones Vs. over-evaluating a player in Jones that has probably shown more than enough to know it isn't going to click for him.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
I thought I did address this. Taylor has a better QBR, TD/INT ratio, YPA, AY/A.
I think you challenged the results because Taylor hasn't done anything the last four years. Well, of course he hasn't. He's been hurt a ton and backed-up Watson, Herbert and Mayfield.
So just so were clear, you are going off his 2017 production, do I have that right?
Tyrod was hurt the 1st half of last season, but came back for the 2nd half. He played so poorly he was benched for Davis Mills, and Mills was announced the starter for the remainder of the season. It wasn't simply he was hurt, he also sucked.
I find it funny now that saying Jones isn't the guy, but he's better than Tyrod, has become "supporting" Jones
So just so were clear, you are going off his 2017 production, do I have that right?
I'm going of TT's career averages.
He was the starter in Cleveland in 2018 until he got hurt. Which paved the way for Mayfield, their #1 pick.
He signed as the back-up to Phillip Rivers in 2019.
He was the starter for the Chargers in 2020 but punctured his lung. Which led to the Herbert taking the wheel and never looking back.
In 2021, Taylor got hurt again as a starter for the Texans. And that paved the way for Davis Mills.
So, with the injuries (a definite concern) and the QBs he was backing up, Taylor just had fewer opportunities the last four years.
Based on what I saw in the Pats game, coupled with Sy's camp reports, I don't think TT has lost much since 2017. He's moving great and seems capable of making most throws.
Added up, yes, I feel good about my position that Taylor is a better QB option than Jones.
Taylor has been to the Superbowl, the probowl and been replaced by Baker Mayfield, Justin Herbert and Davis Mills at each subsequent stop. I've seen footage of TT making business decisions and throwing some great passes. That said, I wasn't sure but he seemed to be staring down his receivers vs the Pats this weekend. I liked his pocket presence but could see why he might struggle to get to the next level in his career. DJ has done nothing but, I feel, he's had absolutely nothing around him. He looked decent at times vs the Pats but still struggle to make short passes on occasions. I think you can win with EITHER QB, but they need an above average supporting cast. I don't know that DJ will ELEVATE Golladay the way Eli could/did elevate receivers (Steve Smith, Plax, Kevin Boss, Nicks, Manningham, etc.). Maybe Taylor can build a rapport with KG and KT that DJ can't? I'm truly more interested to see if this staff can help DJ improve to the potential he showed in his rookie season. I think we know what Taylor is. If DJ can stay healthy (He hasn't so far), he may have the brains and enough physical talent to be an above average QB. That may be better option, cap wise, than having a superstar QB and no financial flexibility to sign or keep topp talent.
when looking at the most critical position in sports, and not being able to find an ounce of production from a player in 5 years. I know you don't actually believe this as stating it would really hurt your take on Jones.
Its perfectly fine to think Jones isn't good. Its also fine to call Taylor what he is. What is this so difficult? Do you care about BBI clout that much?
The odds of him being in place at the helm sometime this season are pretty good based on Jones injury history. That said, not sure what people are looking at to say Taylor is demonstrably better than Jones. They each have looked pedestrian so far. Taylor looks like he has more confidence in the pocket but that's the only advantage I give him. He was not passing well overall in that 1st preseason game.
Anyway not sure it matters all that much. We know what Taylor is. There is still some slight doubt on Jones based on circumstances the past 2 years, and better stats and overall play his rookie year. That means there is still potential upside to starting him, as relatively little as people believe it to be. If Jones doesn't progress we move on. We are rebuilding and I don't see this team being much above .500 this year anyway.
If he can outperform DJ, and he represents more confidence they can win with it, then he's the stop gap rather than DJ. We all want DJ to succeed and seize the moment, but if he isn't then they need to change gears.
This is about 2022 decisions and either they're getting in on DJ or he's out the door so they can move forward.
had Taylor in Buffalo back in 2017 and got rid of him because he wasn't the guy.
They also signed him this year, so maybe they thought he is the guy?
There were any number of reasons to let TT walk. He had been the starter, and Buff was clearly going with Allen, so getting rid of the former starter eliminates any QB controversy if Allen struggled. It isn’t that uncommon.
had Taylor in Buffalo back in 2017 and got rid of him because he wasn't the guy.
They also signed him this year, so maybe they thought he is the guy?
There were any number of reasons to let TT walk. He had been the starter, and Buff was clearly going with Allen, so getting rid of the former starter eliminates any QB controversy if Allen struggled. It isn’t that uncommon.
Oh? They signed him as a competent backup, which you realize we haven't had in quite some time. He's 33 now and hasn't done squat in 5 years. He's not the guy.
especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
Daniel Jones had four good games in 2019 and people act like he was in the running for ROY
"Furthermore, any first-team reps for Taylor would “absolutely not” be a reflection on how Daniel Jones has played to date"
I think the QB controversy will happen eventually but lets not fabricate it either.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
Yeah I don't think Taylor is particularly good. I do think Jones is that bad. And I would like to see more winning football. So I'd like to see TT starting even though I know that will never happen. Well not until the team loses with Jones starting
He and Jones are near the bottom of the league in quality. But Taylor just brings more quality.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
Quote:
is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
+1. Sy's reports do not confirm Taylor is better than Jones. If anything they confirm they both are low average QB's. I dislike people making stuff up and citing it as fact.
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
I thought I did address this. Taylor has a better QBR, TD/INT ratio, YPA, AY/A.
I think you challenged the results because Taylor hasn't done anything the last four years. Well, of course he hasn't. He's been hurt a ton and backed-up Watson, Herbert and Mayfield.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
I m taking liberties here, but from your consistent take on Jones I thinking you would rank him somewhere in the high 40 s low 50 s as a quarterback; most all other starters and several back ups would be ranked higher.
If this turns out to be true, it casts severe doubt on the team of Schoen and Daboll, to evaluate talent and just throw away a season on someone with no potential to be anything but what you claim him to be.
+1. Sy's reports do not confirm Taylor is better than Jones. If anything they confirm they both are low average QB's. I dislike people making stuff up and citing it as fact.
That is not true. In a number of his reports, Sy stated that TT looked more decisive and was the better QB that day. That is a fact.
Quote:
+1. Sy's reports do not confirm Taylor is better than Jones. If anything they confirm they both are low average QB's. I dislike people making stuff up and citing it as fact.
That is not true. In a number of his reports, Sy stated that TT looked more decisive and was the better QB that day. That is a fact.
How dare you actually read those daily reports... ;)
I was going to pull the quotes, but it's likely not worth it...
I m taking liberties here, but from your consistent take on Jones I thinking you would rank him somewhere in the high 40 s low 50 s as a quarterback; most all other starters and several back ups would be ranked higher.
If this turns out to be true, it casts severe doubt on the team of Schoen and Daboll, to evaluate talent and just throw away a season on someone with no potential to be anything but what you claim him to be.
I never looked at it with that much granularity. I try to keep it as Jones being a starter vs the other starters in the league.
When I do that, it seems reasonable to rank Jones as a player in the bottom third of the league amongst his peers.
Yeah, I think the Overton Window on Jones has shifted. Nowadays, those claiming he can eventually be as good as Kirk Cousins look like polyannas.
Quote:
what does that tell you? Sometimes, the answers are right in front of you.
Yeah, I think the Overton Window on Jones has shifted. Nowadays, those claiming he can eventually be as good as Kirk Cousins look like polyannas.
haha...
In that case in order to be competitive, we need great defense and a strong run grade.
I think the defense baring injuries will be top ten
So we need an O line that can run block and Barkley to stay healthy and return to rookie form. This is also possible.
We don't have any quarterback that can carry this team. It's a team sport we have to count on other elements to carry the team and not the quarterback.
Quote:
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
I thought I did address this. Taylor has a better QBR, TD/INT ratio, YPA, AY/A.
I think you challenged the results because Taylor hasn't done anything the last four years. Well, of course he hasn't. He's been hurt a ton and backed-up Watson, Herbert and Mayfield.
So just so were clear, you are going off his 2017 production, do I have that right?
Taylor has better pocket awareness than Jones which would probably be beneficial for us… but there’s a reason why no one ever saw him as a QB of the future guy. Lacks arm strength as well.
I am no hurry to hand him the reigns. If Jones sucks for 3-4 games, then fine.
You want to know what you have in Toney, Robinson, even if KG has anything for you and it's hard to do that when you have a QB that reads the field poorly and zeroes in on his first reads.
To me starting Taylor is much more about not letting Jones drag down the performance of other players that are more important to evaluate than Jones Vs. over-evaluating a player in Jones that has probably shown more than enough to know it isn't going to click for him.
Quote:
In comment 15782194 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
What’s it based on? I’ve asked before and you haven’t answered. Since Jones was drafted he’s been better than Taylor, who hasn’t been good and can’t stay healthy.
It’s fine if you think Jones sucks, I do. But stating Taylor is better is bullshit. He hasn’t done anything in 5 years.
I thought I did address this. Taylor has a better QBR, TD/INT ratio, YPA, AY/A.
I think you challenged the results because Taylor hasn't done anything the last four years. Well, of course he hasn't. He's been hurt a ton and backed-up Watson, Herbert and Mayfield.
So just so were clear, you are going off his 2017 production, do I have that right?
Tyrod was hurt the 1st half of last season, but came back for the 2nd half. He played so poorly he was benched for Davis Mills, and Mills was announced the starter for the remainder of the season. It wasn't simply he was hurt, he also sucked.
I find it funny now that saying Jones isn't the guy, but he's better than Tyrod, has become "supporting" Jones
So just so were clear, you are going off his 2017 production, do I have that right?
I'm going of TT's career averages.
He was the starter in Cleveland in 2018 until he got hurt. Which paved the way for Mayfield, their #1 pick.
He signed as the back-up to Phillip Rivers in 2019.
He was the starter for the Chargers in 2020 but punctured his lung. Which led to the Herbert taking the wheel and never looking back.
In 2021, Taylor got hurt again as a starter for the Texans. And that paved the way for Davis Mills.
So, with the injuries (a definite concern) and the QBs he was backing up, Taylor just had fewer opportunities the last four years.
Based on what I saw in the Pats game, coupled with Sy's camp reports, I don't think TT has lost much since 2017. He's moving great and seems capable of making most throws.
Added up, yes, I feel good about my position that Taylor is a better QB option than Jones.
Its perfectly fine to think Jones isn't good. Its also fine to call Taylor what he is. What is this so difficult? Do you care about BBI clout that much?
How the Bills made the playoffs that year is pretty amazing and a great job by that coaching staff.
JS knows actually what he is getting. Great teammate, good leader, capable starter with limitations and injury concerns.
Good backup option to take over if Jones is injured or is so bad BD has to make a change maintain credibility as a HC.
We'll see.
Anyway not sure it matters all that much. We know what Taylor is. There is still some slight doubt on Jones based on circumstances the past 2 years, and better stats and overall play his rookie year. That means there is still potential upside to starting him, as relatively little as people believe it to be. If Jones doesn't progress we move on. We are rebuilding and I don't see this team being much above .500 this year anyway.
This is about 2022 decisions and either they're getting in on DJ or he's out the door so they can move forward.
They also signed him this year, so maybe they thought he is the guy?
There were any number of reasons to let TT walk. He had been the starter, and Buff was clearly going with Allen, so getting rid of the former starter eliminates any QB controversy if Allen struggled. It isn’t that uncommon.
Quote:
had Taylor in Buffalo back in 2017 and got rid of him because he wasn't the guy.
They also signed him this year, so maybe they thought he is the guy?
There were any number of reasons to let TT walk. He had been the starter, and Buff was clearly going with Allen, so getting rid of the former starter eliminates any QB controversy if Allen struggled. It isn’t that uncommon.
Oh? They signed him as a competent backup, which you realize we haven't had in quite some time. He's 33 now and hasn't done squat in 5 years. He's not the guy.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
Quote:
especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
Daniel Jones had four good games in 2019 and people act like he was in the running for ROY