is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
Yeah I don't think Taylor is particularly good. I do think Jones is that bad. And I would like to see more winning football. So I'd like to see TT starting even though I know that will never happen. Well not until the team loses with Jones starting
I cannot speak for Sy, but I don't think his write-ups suggest Taylor should start. He said he is the best backup we have had. A pretty low bar.
especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
This is his story - play well, get injured, replaced by a young stud draft pick then on to another team.
I'm thinking history will repeat itself here, he''ll beat-out Jones (because he's better); the Giants will then draft the real franchise QB answer they need and Taylor will ride into the sunset. (For his sake, I hope he doesn't have to suffer another injury).
This is his story - play well, get injured, replaced by a young stud draft pick then on to another team.
I'm thinking history will repeat itself here, he''ll beat-out Jones (because he's better); the Giants will then draft the real franchise QB answer they need and Taylor will ride into the sunset. (For his sake, I hope he doesn't have to suffer another injury).
But then he returned in November and started again. He played so much worse than Mills that he got benched for the rest of the year
when looking at the most critical position in sports, and not being able to find an ounce of production from a player in 5 years. I know you don't actually believe this as stating it would really hurt your take on Jones.
Its perfectly fine to think Jones isn't good. Its also fine to call Taylor what he is. What is this so difficult? Do you care about BBI clout that much?
I'm not sure what you want me to call Taylor. I'm not saying he's a top 15 QB. Not even a top 20 QB. I'm simply saying there is enough data/evidence to support that he's a better QB than Jones.
TT has more experience than Jones, has played at a higher level than Jones, and was playing in circumstances the last four years (as enumerated) that prevented him from playing much.
And just because TT hasn't played much the last four years, doesn't mean he's lost anything. He was an average player four years ago and that's what I think he is today.
If I had my druthers, we would get very aggressive and make a move for JimG because I think the NFCE is up for grabs. Because I don't think either TT or DJ are reliable or good enough to make that happen. I just think TT would get us closer...
but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
Perhaps. I wouldn't say Pickett is my guy so much, but I thought folks were down on a guy that had some great qualities and who had a decent chance to become a top 10 QB. And the comparisons to Jones that were stated on BBI were woefully misguided.
you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
Taylor did nothing against the Patriots to suggest that. His ball placement was very poor.
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
Did you see what I wrote? I acknowledged that Pickett has not looked good in practice. However, he played well in the actual game despite the circumstances. Maybe that's his MO...
you are allowing for an injury and poor team excuse for one player and not the other. I’ve already agreed Jones isn’t good. Someone is playing dumb and it isn’t me.
you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
Taylor did nothing against the Patriots to suggest that. His ball placement was very poor.
Taylor is a known quantity. He's a conservative QB with decent athleticism who doesn't turn the ball over. He can move an offense but on most days he cannot light it up. His conservative style makes him a good caddy or bridge QB.
Neither appears to be playing particularly well based on the camp reports. If you have two QBs who are similar in talent, it makes sense to get both first team reps to see if one looks better than the other.
It is foolish to think that Taylor will start the season unless Jones is hurt or really flops in camp. It is also foolish to think that he gets 8, 10 or 17 games to start so that they can "see what they have" in Jones. If he is really bad in weeks 1-3 he hasn't done anything to warrant more games. He isn't a rookie. There is a deep file on him and his abilities.
Taylor is not the long term answer, but he is likely the one who will be here next year as a starter until a rookie is ready to take over. Jones is only hear next year if he grabs the job by the throat and makes it his. I think most of us think that is possible, but highly unlikely.
How many threads did we have to put up with with posters comparing or tracking the progress of Daniel Jones versus other young QBs like Josh Allen and Justin Herbert? These were just comical.
Then the bar fell further down as the debate moved to assessing Jones' potential ceiling versus other starters like Ryan Tannehill and Kirk Cousins. These threads also fell flat on their faces.
Now it's about whether or not he looks definitively better than a journeyman QB who is on his 5th team in as many years.
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
There's a few very poor practice players in the H of F...Practice,we're talking about practice..Really,practice..Love you Iverson!!
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
I could but college QBs are more NFL ready today than ever. Throw in that DJ is only one year older than Pickett as well. So I don’t see this huge growth for Pickett.
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
I could but college QBs are more NFL ready today than ever. Throw in that DJ is only one year older than Pickett as well. So I don’t see this huge growth for Pickett.
“College QBs are more NFL ready today” and yet here we are in year 4 with people saying “let’s see what we have in Jones”.
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
Pickett's arm is fine. True he doesn't have elite arm strength but he is as good or better than Jones in that department. Plus he is very accurate, has great ball placement and great touch and delivers a very catchable ball.
I could but college QBs are more NFL ready today than ever. Throw in that DJ is only one year older than Pickett as well. So I don’t see this huge growth for Pickett.
I agree with you on Pickett's potential, but there is a learning curve for any QB to get used to the speed of the NFL. As "NFL-ready" as any QB is, there is still a steep learning curve when it comes to NFL speed and terminology.
Jones is in his 4th year and is still struggling in practice. That is not a good sign.
A much more capable, proven backup than either backup QB from 2021 that can play well enough that the Giants could win a few games with him as a starter. Probably nothing more than that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It is saf and tragic for us
In comment 15782363 GNewGiants said
“College QBs are more NFL ready today” and yet here we are in year 4 with people saying “let’s see what we have in Jones”.
Honest question for you or anyone who wants to take a stab. How many QBs drafted since 2017 (the year we should have thought about replacing Eli) would make us a playoff team?
Mahomes seems like everyone’s answer (but we would have had to give a boatload for him - and he would have gone to a dysfunctional team with some horrible coaching.) I am not sure we get that same player.
Herbert would be the one for me that we screwed the pooch.
Josh Allen would have been a huge question mark due to the fact he would be placed on a horrible team with horrible coaching. Not sure our staff we had would have helped him.
The rest? I don’t see anyone taken making us a serious playoff contender with the staff and GM we have had since 2017.
A much more capable, proven backup than either backup QB from 2021 that can play well enough that the Giants could win a few games with him as a starter. Probably nothing more than that.
That might be more than Daniel Jones is… so give him the reps… find out for sure.
If Tyrod stunk as bad as Daniel in the 7 camp practices I attended I would be the first one to say, Daniel stinks but he’s better than the next option… unfortunately the next option is Tyrod and from what I saw with my own 2 eyes, he looked a little bit better than Daniel has in camp, sometimes he looked a lot better, particularly with the quick passing scheme which works best with what we have in KT, Wandale, Shep etc….
If Tyrod stunk as bad as Daniel in the 7 camp practices I attended I would be the first one to say, Daniel stinks but he’s better than the next option… unfortunately the next option is Tyrod and from what I saw with my own 2 eyes, he looked a little bit better than Daniel has in camp, sometimes he looked a lot better, particularly with the quick passing scheme which works best with what we have in KT, Wandale, Shep etc….
Wouldn’t it help Jones to have Toney and Shep as well?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It is saf and tragic for us
In comment 15782363 GNewGiants said
“College QBs are more NFL ready today” and yet here we are in year 4 with people saying “let’s see what we have in Jones”.
Honest question for you or anyone who wants to take a stab. How many QBs drafted since 2017 (the year we should have thought about replacing Eli) would make us a playoff team?
Mahomes seems like everyone’s answer (but we would have had to give a boatload for him - and he would have gone to a dysfunctional team with some horrible coaching.) I am not sure we get that same player.
Herbert would be the one for me that we screwed the pooch.
Josh Allen would have been a huge question mark due to the fact he would be placed on a horrible team with horrible coaching. Not sure our staff we had would have helped him.
The rest? I don’t see anyone taken making us a serious playoff contender with the staff and GM we have had since 2017.
If we’re looking at the team as currently constructed you’re probably right, but taking a QB at a different point probably changes how the roster is constructed.
If they started to look into replacing Eli in 2017 like they should have they probably put more resources into the oline instead of taking a RB.
Would it help to wait 4 more years to see if everybody
If we’re looking at the team as currently constructed you’re probably right, but taking a QB at a different point probably changes how the roster is constructed.
If they started to look into replacing Eli in 2017 like they should have they probably put more resources into the oline instead of taking a RB.
Very fair points but with DG running the show, I am not confident he would have done anything right.
Bold statement. I like it but that’s one we have to wait and see how he does. He wasn’t that good last year (not his fault. Hiring Meyer was pathetic).
LJax? Maybe. But our team is not nearly as good as Balt and his progression would be worse since he was drafted since the coaching andnGM was that bad.
Joey B - another good choice. But again he’s downgrading big time on talent around him.
The first 3 I agree on.
Does Daniel Jones at QB keep the Bills, Chiefs, Ravens,
95% of the people here are ready to move on from Jones. The point was no matter your opinion of Jones - many of those QBs drafted that were talked about would have struggled doing anything with this franchise.
I do think if Jones was drafted by those teams you listed - he would be a better player and would have much more success with them then being on the Giants.
95% of the people here are ready to move on from Jones. The point was no matter your opinion of Jones - many of those QBs drafted that were talked about would have struggled doing anything with this franchise.
I do think if Jones was drafted by those teams you listed - he would be a better player and would have much more success with them then being on the Giants.
Not even close to 95%.
And the other points do not matter...we are where we are with DJ. And that is nowhere.
RE: RE: Does Daniel Jones at QB keep the Bills, Chiefs, Ravens,
Matter a lot. Because your assuming Jones is the only thing holding us back. When it fact it could be argued that many things holding the team back. When you have ineptness at..
HC level
GM level
Ownership
Lack of talent at OL
Consistently injured WR core
Every QB in the league would struggle to reach their potential. So like I said if an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, etc… would not be as good as they are now. Are those QBs better than Jones? Of course they are. Not even close.
But until personnel and coaching get better - it won’t matter whose QBing. Player development for a player involves many aspects, just not the QB himself.
that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
Matter a lot. Because your assuming Jones is the only thing holding us back. When it fact it could be argued that many things holding the team back. When you have ineptness at..
HC level
GM level
Ownership
Lack of talent at OL
Consistently injured WR core
Every QB in the league would struggle to reach their potential. So like I said if an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, etc… would not be as good as they are now. Are those QBs better than Jones? Of course they are. Not even close.
But until personnel and coaching get better - it won’t matter whose QBing. Player development for a player involves many aspects, just not the QB himself.
Jones hasn't done himself any favors over 4 years. He has not lived up to the expectations this team has had for him any more than the rest of the poor player personnel and coaches have.
He's not a good QB no matter who you care to blame all the other problems with the team on.
And his time is almost up...
No actually what makes even less sense is to ascribe any
remotely significant probability of success to a QB that has shown very little other than athletic tools in college and the pros who was also a 0 star recruit.
I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of people wanting to give Jones every excuse.
If you watched someone trying to ride a bike, for years, and years, and they were just bad at it, tipping over. Getting their pants caught in the wheel. It would be dumb to be like. Well the road they are riding on right now is uneven and he's riding a shitty bike and blah blah.
If you saw someone doing backflips on a bike and then all of a sudden couldn't ride then yeah, you could blame the bike and that would make sense.
The issue isn't the lack of talent around Jones. The issue is very clearly the lack of talent around Jones AND Jones. Why some of you insist that someone that has always been bad is getting like a raw deal from fans here is beyond me.
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is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
Yeah I don't think Taylor is particularly good. I do think Jones is that bad. And I would like to see more winning football. So I'd like to see TT starting even though I know that will never happen. Well not until the team loses with Jones starting
I cannot speak for Sy, but I don't think his write-ups suggest Taylor should start. He said he is the best backup we have had. A pretty low bar.
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especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
This. 100% truth.
Who has been "snake-bit" for his entire career.
https://www.espn.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/25834/injured-houston-texans-tyrod-taylor-yields-starting-role-to-rookie-qb-again
This is his story - play well, get injured, replaced by a young stud draft pick then on to another team.
I'm thinking history will repeat itself here, he''ll beat-out Jones (because he's better); the Giants will then draft the real franchise QB answer they need and Taylor will ride into the sunset. (For his sake, I hope he doesn't have to suffer another injury).
Who has been "snake-bit" for his entire career.
https://www.espn.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/25834/injured-houston-texans-tyrod-taylor-yields-starting-role-to-rookie-qb-again
This is his story - play well, get injured, replaced by a young stud draft pick then on to another team.
I'm thinking history will repeat itself here, he''ll beat-out Jones (because he's better); the Giants will then draft the real franchise QB answer they need and Taylor will ride into the sunset. (For his sake, I hope he doesn't have to suffer another injury).
But then he returned in November and started again. He played so much worse than Mills that he got benched for the rest of the year
Its perfectly fine to think Jones isn't good. Its also fine to call Taylor what he is. What is this so difficult? Do you care about BBI clout that much?
I'm not sure what you want me to call Taylor. I'm not saying he's a top 15 QB. Not even a top 20 QB. I'm simply saying there is enough data/evidence to support that he's a better QB than Jones.
TT has more experience than Jones, has played at a higher level than Jones, and was playing in circumstances the last four years (as enumerated) that prevented him from playing much.
And just because TT hasn't played much the last four years, doesn't mean he's lost anything. He was an average player four years ago and that's what I think he is today.
If I had my druthers, we would get very aggressive and make a move for JimG because I think the NFCE is up for grabs. Because I don't think either TT or DJ are reliable or good enough to make that happen. I just think TT would get us closer...
I cannot speak for Sy, but I don't think his write-ups suggest Taylor should start. He said he is the best backup we have had. A pretty low bar.
Sy did say TT was the best back-up we've had since Hoss.
But he has said that TT has looked better and more consistent than Jones. That's the point.
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
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but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
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but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
Perhaps. I wouldn't say Pickett is my guy so much, but I thought folks were down on a guy that had some great qualities and who had a decent chance to become a top 10 QB. And the comparisons to Jones that were stated on BBI were woefully misguided.
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you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
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In comment 15782295 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
Taylor did nothing against the Patriots to suggest that. His ball placement was very poor.
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
Did you see what I wrote? I acknowledged that Pickett has not looked good in practice. However, he played well in the actual game despite the circumstances. Maybe that's his MO...
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In comment 15782325 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15782295 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you must have missed the part where I haven't disagreed with the assessment of Jones' rookie season (although some nuances I do). What we are talking about here is the same assessment somehow not applying to Taylor. If Taylor has been hurt and/or not good enough the past 4 years, why do I care what he did 5 years ago? On what planet does that logic make any sense?
You’re not changing these peoples minds. You’re putting up a great effort but it’s gonna be for not.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
Taylor did nothing against the Patriots to suggest that. His ball placement was very poor.
Taylor is a known quantity. He's a conservative QB with decent athleticism who doesn't turn the ball over. He can move an offense but on most days he cannot light it up. His conservative style makes him a good caddy or bridge QB.
It is foolish to think that Taylor will start the season unless Jones is hurt or really flops in camp. It is also foolish to think that he gets 8, 10 or 17 games to start so that they can "see what they have" in Jones. If he is really bad in weeks 1-3 he hasn't done anything to warrant more games. He isn't a rookie. There is a deep file on him and his abilities.
Taylor is not the long term answer, but he is likely the one who will be here next year as a starter until a rookie is ready to take over. Jones is only hear next year if he grabs the job by the throat and makes it his. I think most of us think that is possible, but highly unlikely.
Taylor did nothing against the Patriots to suggest that. His ball placement was very poor.
He could have been more accurate. But I thought he played pretty well despite not having the benefit of the ones.
How many threads did we have to put up with with posters comparing or tracking the progress of Daniel Jones versus other young QBs like Josh Allen and Justin Herbert? These were just comical.
Then the bar fell further down as the debate moved to assessing Jones' potential ceiling versus other starters like Ryan Tannehill and Kirk Cousins. These threads also fell flat on their faces.
Now it's about whether or not he looks definitively better than a journeyman QB who is on his 5th team in as many years.
Let this fabulous debate roll on...
Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
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but also a little bit funny that we wasted 3 years so far, and about to waste another, on a QB who can't demonstrably outplay Tyrod Taylor in year 4. No competent organization functions in an all or nothing binary with a playerwho is a longshot to turn it around. The Giants have become champions at squandering years.
Your guy Pickett looked pretty good the other day vs Seattle.
There is a theory floating around that Pickett may be a guy who doesn't practice well - apparently, he hasn't looked consistently good in practices - but plays well when the lights are on...
There's a few very poor practice players in the H of F...Practice,we're talking about practice..Really,practice..Love you Iverson!!
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Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
I could but college QBs are more NFL ready today than ever. Throw in that DJ is only one year older than Pickett as well. So I don’t see this huge growth for Pickett.
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In comment 15782332 GNewGiants said:
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Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
I could but college QBs are more NFL ready today than ever. Throw in that DJ is only one year older than Pickett as well. So I don’t see this huge growth for Pickett.
“College QBs are more NFL ready today” and yet here we are in year 4 with people saying “let’s see what we have in Jones”.
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Against 4th teamers. And all the practice reports I’ve read is that he’s been the third best QB. So if we go by practice reports for one team… shall we do it for other teams?
I'm not going to defend Pickett, I have my doubts about his arm strength, but you can understand a rookie struggling during his first training camp v a 4th year vet, right?
Pickett's arm is fine. True he doesn't have elite arm strength but he is as good or better than Jones in that department. Plus he is very accurate, has great ball placement and great touch and delivers a very catchable ball.
I could but college QBs are more NFL ready today than ever. Throw in that DJ is only one year older than Pickett as well. So I don’t see this huge growth for Pickett.
I agree with you on Pickett's potential, but there is a learning curve for any QB to get used to the speed of the NFL. As "NFL-ready" as any QB is, there is still a steep learning curve when it comes to NFL speed and terminology.
Jones is in his 4th year and is still struggling in practice. That is not a good sign.
“College QBs are more NFL ready today” and yet here we are in year 4 with people saying “let’s see what we have in Jones”.
Honest question for you or anyone who wants to take a stab. How many QBs drafted since 2017 (the year we should have thought about replacing Eli) would make us a playoff team?
Mahomes seems like everyone’s answer (but we would have had to give a boatload for him - and he would have gone to a dysfunctional team with some horrible coaching.) I am not sure we get that same player.
Herbert would be the one for me that we screwed the pooch.
Josh Allen would have been a huge question mark due to the fact he would be placed on a horrible team with horrible coaching. Not sure our staff we had would have helped him.
The rest? I don’t see anyone taken making us a serious playoff contender with the staff and GM we have had since 2017.
That might be more than Daniel Jones is… so give him the reps… find out for sure.
If Tyrod stunk as bad as Daniel in the 7 camp practices I attended I would be the first one to say, Daniel stinks but he’s better than the next option… unfortunately the next option is Tyrod and from what I saw with my own 2 eyes, he looked a little bit better than Daniel has in camp, sometimes he looked a lot better, particularly with the quick passing scheme which works best with what we have in KT, Wandale, Shep etc….
If Tyrod stunk as bad as Daniel in the 7 camp practices I attended I would be the first one to say, Daniel stinks but he’s better than the next option… unfortunately the next option is Tyrod and from what I saw with my own 2 eyes, he looked a little bit better than Daniel has in camp, sometimes he looked a lot better, particularly with the quick passing scheme which works best with what we have in KT, Wandale, Shep etc….
Wouldn’t it help Jones to have Toney and Shep as well?
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In comment 15782363 GNewGiants said
“College QBs are more NFL ready today” and yet here we are in year 4 with people saying “let’s see what we have in Jones”.
Honest question for you or anyone who wants to take a stab. How many QBs drafted since 2017 (the year we should have thought about replacing Eli) would make us a playoff team?
Mahomes seems like everyone’s answer (but we would have had to give a boatload for him - and he would have gone to a dysfunctional team with some horrible coaching.) I am not sure we get that same player.
Herbert would be the one for me that we screwed the pooch.
Josh Allen would have been a huge question mark due to the fact he would be placed on a horrible team with horrible coaching. Not sure our staff we had would have helped him.
The rest? I don’t see anyone taken making us a serious playoff contender with the staff and GM we have had since 2017.
If we’re looking at the team as currently constructed you’re probably right, but taking a QB at a different point probably changes how the roster is constructed.
If they started to look into replacing Eli in 2017 like they should have they probably put more resources into the oline instead of taking a RB.
Then we would have the perfect environment to finally gauge DJ...
If we’re looking at the team as currently constructed you’re probably right, but taking a QB at a different point probably changes how the roster is constructed.
If they started to look into replacing Eli in 2017 like they should have they probably put more resources into the oline instead of taking a RB.
Very fair points but with DG running the show, I am not confident he would have done anything right.
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
LJax? Maybe. But our team is not nearly as good as Balt and his progression would be worse since he was drafted since the coaching andnGM was that bad.
Joey B - another good choice. But again he’s downgrading big time on talent around him.
The first 3 I agree on.
95% of the people here are ready to move on from Jones. The point was no matter your opinion of Jones - many of those QBs drafted that were talked about would have struggled doing anything with this franchise.
I do think if Jones was drafted by those teams you listed - he would be a better player and would have much more success with them then being on the Giants.
In the hunt, yeah - I think so. But that's loose. Any sort of contender? Absolutely not.
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95% of the people here are ready to move on from Jones. The point was no matter your opinion of Jones - many of those QBs drafted that were talked about would have struggled doing anything with this franchise.
I do think if Jones was drafted by those teams you listed - he would be a better player and would have much more success with them then being on the Giants.
Not even close to 95%.
And the other points do not matter...we are where we are with DJ. And that is nowhere.
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Chargers and Bengals in the playoff hunt...
In the hunt, yeah - I think so. But that's loose. Any sort of contender? Absolutely not.
Yep, loose at best. But I hear you...
HC level
GM level
Ownership
Lack of talent at OL
Consistently injured WR core
Every QB in the league would struggle to reach their potential. So like I said if an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, etc… would not be as good as they are now. Are those QBs better than Jones? Of course they are. Not even close.
But until personnel and coaching get better - it won’t matter whose QBing. Player development for a player involves many aspects, just not the QB himself.
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
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that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
Very good post.
HC level
GM level
Ownership
Lack of talent at OL
Consistently injured WR core
Every QB in the league would struggle to reach their potential. So like I said if an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, etc… would not be as good as they are now. Are those QBs better than Jones? Of course they are. Not even close.
But until personnel and coaching get better - it won’t matter whose QBing. Player development for a player involves many aspects, just not the QB himself.
Jones hasn't done himself any favors over 4 years. He has not lived up to the expectations this team has had for him any more than the rest of the poor player personnel and coaches have.
He's not a good QB no matter who you care to blame all the other problems with the team on.
And his time is almost up...
I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of people wanting to give Jones every excuse.
If you watched someone trying to ride a bike, for years, and years, and they were just bad at it, tipping over. Getting their pants caught in the wheel. It would be dumb to be like. Well the road they are riding on right now is uneven and he's riding a shitty bike and blah blah.
If you saw someone doing backflips on a bike and then all of a sudden couldn't ride then yeah, you could blame the bike and that would make sense.
The issue isn't the lack of talent around Jones. The issue is very clearly the lack of talent around Jones AND Jones. Why some of you insist that someone that has always been bad is getting like a raw deal from fans here is beyond me.