The issue isn't the lack of talent around Jones. The issue is very clearly the lack of talent around Jones AND Jones. Why some of you insist that someone that has always been bad is getting like a raw deal from fans here is beyond me.
I certainly don’t disagree with you on it being both. I’ve said I’m ready to move on from as well. So please don’t lump me there. One of the reasons why i didn’t want a QB at 5 or 7 was cause I want to build up a team.
And it’s ok to say he got a raw deal here. Even him being a bad QB - he was strapped with so much ineptness. It’s a raw deal for every player.
Matter a lot. Because your assuming Jones is the only thing holding us back. When it fact it could be argued that many things holding the team back. When you have ineptness at..
HC level
GM level
Ownership
Lack of talent at OL
Consistently injured WR core
Every QB in the league would struggle to reach their potential. So like I said if an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, etc… would not be as good as they are now. Are those QBs better than Jones? Of course they are. Not even close.
But until personnel and coaching get better - it won’t matter whose QBing. Player development for a player involves many aspects, just not the QB himself.
Jones hasn't done himself any favors over 4 years. He has not lived up to the expectations this team has had for him any more than the rest of the poor player personnel and coaches have.
He's not a good QB no matter who you care to blame all the other problems with the team on.
And his time is almost up...
And that’s fine. I don’t see that many people disagreeing with this point.
that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
Great post and I agree. I try but the QB guru group is one of great resilience to the truth and they lack some basic understanding of offensive football. Great persistence and enthusiasm though!
That said, if I were to give any of the QB's a shot it would be Josh Allen. That young man is a really special player. Hope Buffalo does not waste him and fixes the interior on both sides.
that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
Great post and I agree. I try but the QB guru group is one of great resilience to the truth and they lack some basic understanding of offensive football. Great persistence and enthusiasm though!
That said, if I were to give any of the QB's a shot it would be Josh Allen. That young man is a really special player. Hope Buffalo does not waste him and fixes the interior on both sides.
Agreed on all points. Although I would have loved to have landed Burrow somehow, some way... lol
This is one of those debates where I have a hard time seeing
Q: Is there a need or maybe a desire or maybe even a curiosity to see what (Quarterback) Tyrod (Taylor) can do with the first team at some point this summer?
A: Yeah, as we get going here in terms of the preseason games, we’ll talk about whatever we think is best. But I have full confidence in (Quarterback) Daniel (Jones) and full confidence in Tyrod and what his role is. Each day, we sit there and we evaluate the guys. But will he get a few reps here or there? He might.
Q: Is that any reflection on Daniel?
A: Absolutely not. No. I learned from a pretty good coach a while ago, usually he doesn’t tell those guys when he throws them in because that’s what the backup’s role is. You have to go in on a split second. You prepare like you’re a starter. But the fourth play of a game, something happens, you’re in, you got to be ready to go. So, I don’t necessarily think we’ll tell those guys when that will happen.
RE: This is one of those debates where I have a hard time seeing
Burrow is a interesting one. He does have the swagger. I was really high on him but the SB soured me some. Look forward to seeing him play in the future. That WR group is pretty special.
RE: RE: RE: half a decade is a lifetime in the NFL
especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
Daniel Jones had four good games in 2019 and people act like he was in the running for ROY
Can we stop with this 4 good games crap? (And actually it was 5 games out of 12 over 300 yards, 4 exceptional games). Go look at Josh Allen's game logs from his first year. He topped 200 yards 6 times in 12 games with 245 being his high. He had ZERO good games as a rookie.
Or better yet, compare Jones to Manning's rookie year. Eli had a zero passer rating one game. And another at 17. He had 6 TDs and 9 INTs in 7 starts. His BEST game was 201 yards. Jones had 24 and 12 in 12 starts and his worst rating was 35.2. His second worst was 49.4. And Eli had a far better supporting cast.
Manning's rating for the year was 55.3, Allen's was 67.9, Jones' was 87.7. And don't say Manning played in a different Era of offense. Roethlisberger had a rating of 93.1 and 17 TDs and 11 INTs as a rookie.
Jones was far better and more consistent than either Allen or Manning and similar to Roethlisberger as a rookie. But he was a rookie. Complain all you want about him, but let's use logical, factual comparisons. Let's compare his rookie numbers to other rookie QB's results, not veterans.
RE: RE: This is one of those debates where I have a hard time seeing
Since both QBs are mediocre, we might as well play Jones.
Is that it? Snooze.
So I’ve been reading that Trey Lance has looked great in camp. Anyone seen Hi. In action or care to comment?
Thought I’d change the topic to something more interesting. Speaking as a Giants fan.
Huge microscope will be on Lance. You basically gave up on your franchise guy for an unproven rookie.
He has a great surrounding cast around him. He should have a pretty big year.
This is one I am also very interested in monitoring. I've come to really respect Shanahan. Lance has a lot of nice traits and he is in a ideal situation to have the best chance. His upside will be determined by if he can throw from the pocket. I expect Shanny to move him a lot with PA with simpler reads and progress accordingly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: half a decade is a lifetime in the NFL
especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
Daniel Jones had four good games in 2019 and people act like he was in the running for ROY
Can we stop with this 4 good games crap? (And actually it was 5 games out of 12 over 300 yards, 4 exceptional games). Go look at Josh Allen's game logs from his first year. He topped 200 yards 6 times in 12 games with 245 being his high. He had ZERO good games as a rookie.
Or better yet, compare Jones to Manning's rookie year. Eli had a zero passer rating one game. And another at 17. He had 6 TDs and 9 INTs in 7 starts. His BEST game was 201 yards. Jones had 24 and 12 in 12 starts and his worst rating was 35.2. His second worst was 49.4. And Eli had a far better supporting cast.
Manning's rating for the year was 55.3, Allen's was 67.9, Jones' was 87.7. And don't say Manning played in a different Era of offense. Roethlisberger had a rating of 93.1 and 17 TDs and 11 INTs as a rookie.
Jones was far better and more consistent than either Allen or Manning and similar to Roethlisberger as a rookie. But he was a rookie. Complain all you want about him, but let's use logical, factual comparisons. Let's compare his rookie numbers to other rookie QB's results, not veterans.
Here believes that Daniel Jones will start and finish all 17 games? I think it’s highly likely that either due to injury or performance he won’t. And so it makes sense for Taylor to get some reps in with the first stringers.
Here believes that Daniel Jones will start and finish all 17 games? I think it’s highly likely that either due to injury or performance he won’t. And so it makes sense for Taylor to get some reps in with the first stringers.
Barring injury - I think Jones gets 6 games to show anything. If we are 1-5 or 0-6, a move will be made.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
I have ceded the point Jones has not been surrounded by the best talent, coaching, and management (ownership incl).
But do you really want to challenge the differential in physical skills the players I mentioned have over Jones? (I'll carve TrevLaw out of this for now...)
Has it occurred to you that those QBs, while in better circumstances, have simultaneously lifted the team because they have more tools to do so? Do you think Jones can make even half the throws that Mahomes, Herbert or Allen can make when they are off-script? Because right now a lot of the success of an NFL team is based on off-script ability.
Do you think Jones runs as well as Allen or LJax? Do you think he holds up in the pocket as well as any of them?
Last year, Burrow played with an OL that was probably as bad - statistically - as any Jones had had. Yet, Burrow made play after play after play after play to get to a SB. In his rookie year, Herbert had the poorest pass blocking OL in football. Yet, he was great against pressure and had an all-time rookie campaign.
If Jones had any plus skills like the aforementioned, I would be bullish on the guy. But I continue to see a player with average skills only. And in order for him to possibly reach the success we want it's basically going to take a team building miracle.
Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing that posters can detect the obvious differences in skills between Jones and some of QBs I have mentioned.
I certainly don’t think Jones has the skills of those QBs. But I do think Jones would be a better player with their situations. Obviously not as good as them, but better.
Little more on the Eli/Ben comparison. I remember I had a debate with a good friend on this.
Steelers ran the ball 38 times a game. They had the number one defense. They also ran a extremely simple passing offense had Ben read one side of the field.
TC took a different approach and he did not have the OL (yet) nor a defense close (yet) to pull it off. He sent Eli in with the full arsenal and eventually he came around and the team got a lot better. They ran 26 times a game that year.
TC actually wanted a team like those Steelers and they actually accomplished it. Your 2008 Giants.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
Taylor is a vet journeyman fill-in, back up qb, nothing more. He's here because we didn't draft a qb and we can't afford any of the legit starters who might be available. This is Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum between two backups- flip a coin.
We've gone over this so much for 4 years. I'm pretty sure it's not going to workout for Daniel Jones with the Giants. Some of it, is not his fault. Too much of it is.
He drew a very bad hand when he was drafted by the Giants. Horrible GM, bad HC's, bottom 3rd of the league roster on both sides of the ball around him. Horrible offensive line play. All of that is true. He's as tough a QB as Phil and Eli and that's the highest praise I can give.
But it's also true that the NFL game is too fast for him. He may have a Duke education and Duke IQ but his football IQ is low. He lacks the instincts and sixth sense that the great QB's have to feel the rush and to know when the ball needs to get out. Some of, certainly not all or even most, of the bad OL play is on him.
He doesn't diagnose defenses or where the pressure is going to come to from pre snap. Post snap he locks in one receiver he expects to be open and if it's not there he panics. He is awful when forced to improvise or throw on the run. All of that is not going to be cured by better players around him.
This GM and HC didn't draft him. They declined his 5th year option and I think they're going to move on from him at the end of the 2022 season the latest.
Which I’ll define as those with an avg yards per pass above 7.5.
In 2020 and 2021, he reached that 7.5 YPA level 8 times, about the same rate as in 2019.
How about this idea? He is what he is. Those 2019 outings don’t represent his future but are natural outcomes from any athletes variability in performance.
Players have good games, bad games, and those in between. There’s no reason to believe the good games are what the player “really is.” They are his high points.
Here believes that Daniel Jones will start and finish all 17 games? I think it’s highly likely that either due to injury or performance he won’t. And so it makes sense for Taylor to get some reps in with the first stringers.
Barring injury - I think Jones gets 6 games to show anything. If we are 1-5 or 0-6, a move will be made.
Injury? Always tough to predict.
The Giants face some awful opponents, esp early in the season. They may be at .500 in October despite being lousy.
We've gone over this so much for 4 years. I'm pretty sure it's not going to workout for Daniel Jones with the Giants. Some of it, is not his fault. Too much of it is.
He drew a very bad hand when he was drafted by the Giants. Horrible GM, bad HC's, bottom 3rd of the league roster on both sides of the ball around him. Horrible offensive line play. All of that is true. He's as tough a QB as Phil and Eli and that's the highest praise I can give.
But it's also true that the NFL game is too fast for him. He may have a Duke education and Duke IQ but his football IQ is low. He lacks the instincts and sixth sense that the great QB's have to feel the rush and to know when the ball needs to get out. Some of, certainly not all or even most, of the bad OL play is on him.
He doesn't diagnose defenses or where the pressure is going to come to from pre snap. Post snap he locks in one receiver he expects to be open and if it's not there he panics. He is awful when forced to improvise or throw on the run. All of that is not going to be cured by better players around him.
This GM and HC didn't draft him. They declined his 5th year option and I think they're going to move on from him at the end of the 2022 season the latest.
I'm a Daniel Jones fan and hoping he performs well this season. But I'm afraid your description is pretty much dead-on.
I don't get the logic of wanting to win the division title, which will eliminate any chance at getting one of the very good QB's in this class, versus just letting the string play out.
Jones will start struggle, probably confirm any and all doubts about him and we can move on.
is a better QB than Jones and he should start for NYG. And Sy's camp reports seem to suggest that Taylor has indeed been the better QB.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
Agree on all counts, and that isn't so much praise for Taylor as it my view of where Jones ranks right now. I think Jones still has the potential to be better than Taylor, but so what? That places him in the middle of the league.
My view from day one has been Taylor should be given a fair shot to win the job because he is the only QB on the roster likely to be here next year. He is cost effective and a likely bridge to the next QB, assuming they draft one next year. On the very outside shot Jones gets a 2nd contract, Taylor should still be here as the backup due to cost.
Then given Jones' injury history thus far, it makes sense to have a backup primed to play.
that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I like Jackson and thought he was the only QB to take that year, but only by way of trading down and waiting out the others. He did not make sense at the top of the round, but later, sure. But, I don't see him making this team significantly better mainly because with our lack of playmakers at WR and TE for the last few years, he isn't likely to make much of a difference. His legs would help, but I think he would get killed, like Jones.
As for Lawrence, I still think he will be worlds better, But, right now, with this team, I'm not so sure.
Exactly what the coaching staff is giving him..pass rush galore from all over the lot..He has to learn to see with his ears,as well as his eyes...You can hear those big guys grunting,etc trying to run over any lineman trying to stop them getting to Jones..It wouldn't surprise me if the ground felt like a small earthquake is happening..
Taylor getting first team reps before 2nd pre season game basically
I don't get the logic of wanting to win the division title, which will eliminate any chance at getting one of the very good QB's in this class, versus just letting the string play out.
Jones will start struggle, probably confirm any and all doubts about him and we can move on.
It is a bit paradoxical for sure. But the NFCE is so ordinary as a conference, I really think we could win it with a better QB.
It's been such a long time winning anything that I would be willing to go for the NFCE; and still trust we could get a better QB because the 2023 QB class - right now - appears pretty deep in quality.
Further, I'm not sold on Bryce Young. So, missing out on him isn't really missing out in my book. Stroud is a different story. But if we can't grab him, there may potentially be 6-9 others who are worth a first-round investment.
barring injury to DJ, Taylor is the backup qb this season!
the comments on this thread about Taylor being the new starter or this is some kind of competition with DJ is stupidity. I can’t believe even children in NY area are as stupid and ignorant as illustrated here who seemingly aremaintaining otherwise. Eric should clean out the Augean stable he is now maintaining. But I guess it’s beyond even Hercules.
Can we stop with this 4 good games crap? (And actually it was 5 games out of 12 over 300 yards, 4 exceptional games).
WHy do you get to cherry pick his stats? And can we stop with the Eli Manning crap?
Let's put things into context. Eli played 15 years ago. Eli got the start week 11 on .500 team that was awful the year before. Eli played on a team that went 11-5 his first full season.
Jones on the other hand has been playing on a bottom of the barrel team . He turned the ball over 39 times and only won 4 games. He put up some meaningless numbers in garbage time. So what?
I have to laugh at all these people blaming coaching. Garrett was not Vince Lombardi but a decent coach. Further, I always said the D Jones is in the conversation with some of Giants back-ups than he is with Eli, Josh allen , Herbert etc.
RE: barring injury to DJ, Taylor is the backup qb this season!
the comments on this thread about Taylor being the new starter or this is some kind of competition with DJ is stupidity. I can’t believe even children in NY area are as stupid and ignorant as illustrated here who seemingly aremaintaining otherwise. Eric should clean out the Augean stable he is now maintaining. But I guess it’s beyond even Hercules.
I think most agree that the starting job has been preordained to Jones. And TT is the hired back-up.
That doesn't mean, however, that's the best decision.
I don't mind grading Jones on a curve because he's been a Giant the last 3 years. He's been surrounded by a bad team.
But do y'all give the same benefit of the doubt to the other 10 guys? Does Nate Solder get the benefit of the doubt because Jones is bad? How about Golladay? How about Engram?
Is Jones the only player who doesn't suck that's been a Giant for the last three years?
I have ceded the point Jones has not been surrounded by the best talent, coaching, and management (ownership incl).
But do you really want to challenge the differential in physical skills the players I mentioned have over Jones? (I'll carve TrevLaw out of this for now...)
Has it occurred to you that those QBs, while in better circumstances, have simultaneously lifted the team because they have more tools to do so? Do you think Jones can make even half the throws that Mahomes, Herbert or Allen can make when they are off-script? Because right now a lot of the success of an NFL team is based on off-script ability.
Do you think Jones runs as well as Allen or LJax? Do you think he holds up in the pocket as well as any of them?
Last year, Burrow played with an OL that was probably as bad - statistically - as any Jones had had. Yet, Burrow made play after play after play after play to get to a SB. In his rookie year, Herbert had the poorest pass blocking OL in football. Yet, he was great against pressure and had an all-time rookie campaign.
If Jones had any plus skills like the aforementioned, I would be bullish on the guy. But I continue to see a player with average skills only. And in order for him to possibly reach the success we want it's basically going to take a team building miracle.
Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing that posters can detect the obvious differences in skills between Jones and some of QBs I have mentioned.
If you don’t think he can physically play the position at a high enough level to be a quality QB in this league, then we simply don’t agree on that. Daniel Jones problems as a professional quarterback aren’t physical limitations of any kind. We’re talking about a guy who led the NFL in YPC 2 seasons ago. Look at the highlights from the Saints game last season. Look at the zip on his throws. His physical ability isn’t the problem… this isn’t Tua. I’m not sure your skills points even matters because if that was supremely important, the Giants would have ZERO Super Bowl victories. Even with Phil’s accuracy, Eli’s arm strength, and Hostetler’s mobility, none of their 3 Super Bowl winning QBs was the most physically gifted or skilled at any aspect of their position.
As physically talented as Pat Mahomes is, Andy Reid, Tyreek Hill, and Travis Kelce played a MAJOR role in his development. As physically gifted as Justin Herbert is, Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Austin Ekeler have played a major role in his development. Compare Rashan Slater’s rookie season to Andrew Thomas’. Joe Burrow’s offensive line has been abysmal. But compare his skill position players his rookie season to Daniel Jones’ rookie season. Then they added Jamarr Chase. (The Giants added Toney and Golladay, one guy who’s always hurt and another who can’t get open against the Giants backup corners in practice.) Watch the highlights of the Bengals Titans playoff game. On their first 2 drives, Joe Mixon and Jamarr Chase took a dump off and a WR screen 88 combined yards leading to scores. Do you see anyone on the Giants making plays like that?
This stuff matters when you’re trying to develop a QB. Jones has weaknesses that may have hampered his chances at ever being a quality QB in this league. However, if you think you’re going to drop one of those QBs you talked about into the situation the Giants had over the past 3 seasons and he’s going to look even remotely similar to what they look like now, I think you’re way off. The Giants have been a complete train wreck.
I don't mind grading Jones on a curve because he's been a Giant the last 3 years. He's been surrounded by a bad team.
But do y'all give the same benefit of the doubt to the other 10 guys? Does Nate Solder get the benefit of the doubt because Jones is bad? How about Golladay? How about Engram?
Is Jones the only player who doesn't suck that's been a Giant for the last three years?
I don't even think Jones doesn't suck...but maybe he doesn't suck as bad as everyone else and he is on a rookie contract. If Engram didn't cost us an entire season by dropping a good pass, I'd probably be more forgiving. Golladay and Solder just flat out robbed us.
I don't mind grading Jones on a curve because he's been a Giant the last 3 years. He's been surrounded by a bad team.
But do y'all give the same benefit of the doubt to the other 10 guys? Does Nate Solder get the benefit of the doubt because Jones is bad? How about Golladay? How about Engram?
Is Jones the only player who doesn't suck that's been a Giant for the last three years?
I don’t think that’s an unfair point - I have said a lot this off-season that our WRs are better than what most have said. OL is a little different since it’s a lot of 1-1 battles.
But I do agree our WRs sometimes get too much shit.
And no Engram doesn’t deserve any slack. He couldn’t block or catch haha.
I have ceded the point Jones has not been surrounded by the best talent, coaching, and management (ownership incl).
But do you really want to challenge the differential in physical skills the players I mentioned have over Jones? (I'll carve TrevLaw out of this for now...)
Has it occurred to you that those QBs, while in better circumstances, have simultaneously lifted the team because they have more tools to do so? Do you think Jones can make even half the throws that Mahomes, Herbert or Allen can make when they are off-script? Because right now a lot of the success of an NFL team is based on off-script ability.
Do you think Jones runs as well as Allen or LJax? Do you think he holds up in the pocket as well as any of them?
Last year, Burrow played with an OL that was probably as bad - statistically - as any Jones had had. Yet, Burrow made play after play after play after play to get to a SB. In his rookie year, Herbert had the poorest pass blocking OL in football. Yet, he was great against pressure and had an all-time rookie campaign.
If Jones had any plus skills like the aforementioned, I would be bullish on the guy. But I continue to see a player with average skills only. And in order for him to possibly reach the success we want it's basically going to take a team building miracle.
Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing that posters can detect the obvious differences in skills between Jones and some of QBs I have mentioned.
If you don’t think he can physically play the position at a high enough level to be a quality QB in this league, then we simply don’t agree on that. Daniel Jones problems as a professional quarterback aren’t physical limitations of any kind. We’re talking about a guy who led the NFL in YPC 2 seasons ago. Look at the highlights from the Saints game last season. Look at the zip on his throws. His physical ability isn’t the problem… this isn’t Tua. I’m not sure your skills points even matters because if that was supremely important, the Giants would have ZERO Super Bowl victories. Even with Phil’s accuracy, Eli’s arm strength, and Hostetler’s mobility, none of their 3 Super Bowl winning QBs was the most physically gifted or skilled at any aspect of their position.
As physically talented as Pat Mahomes is, Andy Reid, Tyreek Hill, and Travis Kelce played a MAJOR role in his development. As physically gifted as Justin Herbert is, Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Austin Ekeler have played a major role in his development. Compare Rashan Slater’s rookie season to Andrew Thomas’. Joe Burrow’s offensive line has been abysmal. But compare his skill position players his rookie season to Daniel Jones’ rookie season. Then they added Jamarr Chase. (The Giants added Toney and Golladay, one guy who’s always hurt and another who can’t get open against the Giants backup corners in practice.) Watch the highlights of the Bengals Titans playoff game. On their first 2 drives, Joe Mixon and Jamarr Chase took a dump off and a WR screen 88 combined yards leading to scores. Do you see anyone on the Giants making plays like that?
This stuff matters when you’re trying to develop a QB. Jones has weaknesses that may have hampered his chances at ever being a quality QB in this league. However, if you think you’re going to drop one of those QBs you talked about into the situation the Giants had over the past 3 seasons and he’s going to look even remotely similar to what they look like now, I think you’re way off. The Giants have been a complete train wreck.
If the goal is to win games, I think TT gives us a better shot than DJ IMO.
I think so, too.
Both are game manager types, right? The tiebreaker for me would come down to this question - who is going to make the fewest mistakes and potentially do enough off-script to create points. TT would check both boxes for me.
Where is the Daniel Jones that went 26-36 for 336 and 4 total TDs in his first career start. Where is THAT guy.
Any player can have ONE great game. It takes more than that to have a good career. Plus, no tape on the rookie. Once DC's got film, they exposed his weaknesses.
Mitch Trubisky once threw for 354 yards and 6 TDs in one game
The issue isn't the lack of talent around Jones. The issue is very clearly the lack of talent around Jones AND Jones. Why some of you insist that someone that has always been bad is getting like a raw deal from fans here is beyond me.
I certainly don’t disagree with you on it being both. I’ve said I’m ready to move on from as well. So please don’t lump me there. One of the reasons why i didn’t want a QB at 5 or 7 was cause I want to build up a team.
And it’s ok to say he got a raw deal here. Even him being a bad QB - he was strapped with so much ineptness. It’s a raw deal for every player.
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Matter a lot. Because your assuming Jones is the only thing holding us back. When it fact it could be argued that many things holding the team back. When you have ineptness at..
HC level
GM level
Ownership
Lack of talent at OL
Consistently injured WR core
Every QB in the league would struggle to reach their potential. So like I said if an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, etc… would not be as good as they are now. Are those QBs better than Jones? Of course they are. Not even close.
But until personnel and coaching get better - it won’t matter whose QBing. Player development for a player involves many aspects, just not the QB himself.
Jones hasn't done himself any favors over 4 years. He has not lived up to the expectations this team has had for him any more than the rest of the poor player personnel and coaches have.
He's not a good QB no matter who you care to blame all the other problems with the team on.
And his time is almost up...
And that’s fine. I don’t see that many people disagreeing with this point.
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that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
Great post and I agree. I try but the QB guru group is one of great resilience to the truth and they lack some basic understanding of offensive football. Great persistence and enthusiasm though!
That said, if I were to give any of the QB's a shot it would be Josh Allen. That young man is a really special player. Hope Buffalo does not waste him and fixes the interior on both sides.
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In comment 15782410 bw in dc said:
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that put us squarely in the playoff hunt this year...
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
Great post and I agree. I try but the QB guru group is one of great resilience to the truth and they lack some basic understanding of offensive football. Great persistence and enthusiasm though!
That said, if I were to give any of the QB's a shot it would be Josh Allen. That young man is a really special player. Hope Buffalo does not waste him and fixes the interior on both sides.
Agreed on all points. Although I would have loved to have landed Burrow somehow, some way... lol
The better QB should play
V
Since both QBs are mediocre, we might as well play Jones.
Is that it? Snooze.
So I’ve been reading that Trey Lance has looked great in camp. Anyone seen Hi. In action or care to comment?
Thought I’d change the topic to something more interesting. Speaking as a Giants fan.
Q: Is there a need or maybe a desire or maybe even a curiosity to see what (Quarterback) Tyrod (Taylor) can do with the first team at some point this summer?
A: Yeah, as we get going here in terms of the preseason games, we’ll talk about whatever we think is best. But I have full confidence in (Quarterback) Daniel (Jones) and full confidence in Tyrod and what his role is. Each day, we sit there and we evaluate the guys. But will he get a few reps here or there? He might.
Q: Is that any reflection on Daniel?
A: Absolutely not. No. I learned from a pretty good coach a while ago, usually he doesn’t tell those guys when he throws them in because that’s what the backup’s role is. You have to go in on a split second. You prepare like you’re a starter. But the fourth play of a game, something happens, you’re in, you got to be ready to go. So, I don’t necessarily think we’ll tell those guys when that will happen.
The better QB should play
V
Since both QBs are mediocre, we might as well play Jones.
Is that it? Snooze.
So I’ve been reading that Trey Lance has looked great in camp. Anyone seen Hi. In action or care to comment?
Thought I’d change the topic to something more interesting. Speaking as a Giants fan.
Huge microscope will be on Lance. You basically gave up on your franchise guy for an unproven rookie.
He has a great surrounding cast around him. He should have a pretty big year.
"Furthermore, any first-team reps for Taylor would “absolutely not” be a reflection on how Daniel Jones has played to date"
I think the QB controversy will happen eventually but lets not fabricate it either.
The haters won't read this....
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In comment 15782252 UConn4523 said:
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especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
Daniel Jones had four good games in 2019 and people act like he was in the running for ROY
Can we stop with this 4 good games crap? (And actually it was 5 games out of 12 over 300 yards, 4 exceptional games). Go look at Josh Allen's game logs from his first year. He topped 200 yards 6 times in 12 games with 245 being his high. He had ZERO good games as a rookie.
Or better yet, compare Jones to Manning's rookie year. Eli had a zero passer rating one game. And another at 17. He had 6 TDs and 9 INTs in 7 starts. His BEST game was 201 yards. Jones had 24 and 12 in 12 starts and his worst rating was 35.2. His second worst was 49.4. And Eli had a far better supporting cast.
Manning's rating for the year was 55.3, Allen's was 67.9, Jones' was 87.7. And don't say Manning played in a different Era of offense. Roethlisberger had a rating of 93.1 and 17 TDs and 11 INTs as a rookie.
Jones was far better and more consistent than either Allen or Manning and similar to Roethlisberger as a rookie. But he was a rookie. Complain all you want about him, but let's use logical, factual comparisons. Let's compare his rookie numbers to other rookie QB's results, not veterans.
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What is being debated. Is it:
The better QB should play
V
Since both QBs are mediocre, we might as well play Jones.
Is that it? Snooze.
So I’ve been reading that Trey Lance has looked great in camp. Anyone seen Hi. In action or care to comment?
Thought I’d change the topic to something more interesting. Speaking as a Giants fan.
Huge microscope will be on Lance. You basically gave up on your franchise guy for an unproven rookie.
He has a great surrounding cast around him. He should have a pretty big year.
This is one I am also very interested in monitoring. I've come to really respect Shanahan. Lance has a lot of nice traits and he is in a ideal situation to have the best chance. His upside will be determined by if he can throw from the pocket. I expect Shanny to move him a lot with PA with simpler reads and progress accordingly.
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In comment 15782284 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 15782252 UConn4523 said:
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especially when people that like Jones aren't allowed to point to his positives from his rookie season in 2019 when he had a better offensive coach, and some playmakers that were more athletic than a D2 team.
Oh brother. It has been pointed out- repeatedly- and the rejoinder has come -repeatedly.
I will repeat it one more time- several good games against shitty defenses and several bad against any team that was .500 or better in 2019. Once the DC's had some film on him, they have exploited his flaws relentlessly to the point where virtually every game is meh. He's had several different OC's, and no one has been able to find the magic scheme that will unlock this wunderkinder's supposed talents. Add Daboll to the list. It's the same story as in Duke- the scheme is no good, the receivers are no good, the running backs are no good, he doesn't get enough time- in other words, the basic set of excuses for any meh qb.
Now it is staring you in the face that he is not clearly beating out a journeyman, work-a-day, NFL career backup qb.
Jones is what he is: a zero star recruit in college who got where he is through hard work, perseverance, being a good egg and amazing good luck. Unfortunately, that will only get you so far, and in our case, that isn't far enough.
Daniel Jones had four good games in 2019 and people act like he was in the running for ROY
Can we stop with this 4 good games crap? (And actually it was 5 games out of 12 over 300 yards, 4 exceptional games). Go look at Josh Allen's game logs from his first year. He topped 200 yards 6 times in 12 games with 245 being his high. He had ZERO good games as a rookie.
Or better yet, compare Jones to Manning's rookie year. Eli had a zero passer rating one game. And another at 17. He had 6 TDs and 9 INTs in 7 starts. His BEST game was 201 yards. Jones had 24 and 12 in 12 starts and his worst rating was 35.2. His second worst was 49.4. And Eli had a far better supporting cast.
Manning's rating for the year was 55.3, Allen's was 67.9, Jones' was 87.7. And don't say Manning played in a different Era of offense. Roethlisberger had a rating of 93.1 and 17 TDs and 11 INTs as a rookie.
Jones was far better and more consistent than either Allen or Manning and similar to Roethlisberger as a rookie. But he was a rookie. Complain all you want about him, but let's use logical, factual comparisons. Let's compare his rookie numbers to other rookie QB's results, not veterans.
good lord...
Barring injury - I think Jones gets 6 games to show anything. If we are 1-5 or 0-6, a move will be made.
Injury? Always tough to predict.
I will truly never understand the belief by some on BBI that these other QBs are accomplishing what they have in situations that are even remotely comparable to the mess the Giants have had the past 3 seasons. Whether it was infinitely better coaching, infinitely better offensive line play, or clearly superior skill position talent, 5 of the QBs you mention were in situations Jones (and the fans) could only dream of.
“Squarely in the playoff hunt”??!?!?!!! Daniel Jones practiced the other day with most of the first unit reps going to Kenny Golladay, Collin Johnson, Richie James, and Daniel Bellinger.
The only one of those QBs whose situation was a train wreck similar to the likes of the Giants was Trevor Lawrence. BTW, with the exception of fumbles, Daniel Jones was a superior QB as a rookie to Trevor Lawrence in every other statistical measure.
I have ceded the point Jones has not been surrounded by the best talent, coaching, and management (ownership incl).
But do you really want to challenge the differential in physical skills the players I mentioned have over Jones? (I'll carve TrevLaw out of this for now...)
Has it occurred to you that those QBs, while in better circumstances, have simultaneously lifted the team because they have more tools to do so? Do you think Jones can make even half the throws that Mahomes, Herbert or Allen can make when they are off-script? Because right now a lot of the success of an NFL team is based on off-script ability.
Do you think Jones runs as well as Allen or LJax? Do you think he holds up in the pocket as well as any of them?
Last year, Burrow played with an OL that was probably as bad - statistically - as any Jones had had. Yet, Burrow made play after play after play after play to get to a SB. In his rookie year, Herbert had the poorest pass blocking OL in football. Yet, he was great against pressure and had an all-time rookie campaign.
If Jones had any plus skills like the aforementioned, I would be bullish on the guy. But I continue to see a player with average skills only. And in order for him to possibly reach the success we want it's basically going to take a team building miracle.
Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing that posters can detect the obvious differences in skills between Jones and some of QBs I have mentioned.
Steelers ran the ball 38 times a game. They had the number one defense. They also ran a extremely simple passing offense had Ben read one side of the field.
TC took a different approach and he did not have the OL (yet) nor a defense close (yet) to pull it off. He sent Eli in with the full arsenal and eventually he came around and the team got a lot better. They ran 26 times a game that year.
TC actually wanted a team like those Steelers and they actually accomplished it. Your 2008 Giants.
UConn is playing a bit dumb here and not accounting for the circumstances TT has played under the last four years.
I don't believe anyone is saying anything other than TT is a better short-term solution for this team than Jones.
He drew a very bad hand when he was drafted by the Giants. Horrible GM, bad HC's, bottom 3rd of the league roster on both sides of the ball around him. Horrible offensive line play. All of that is true. He's as tough a QB as Phil and Eli and that's the highest praise I can give.
But it's also true that the NFL game is too fast for him. He may have a Duke education and Duke IQ but his football IQ is low. He lacks the instincts and sixth sense that the great QB's have to feel the rush and to know when the ball needs to get out. Some of, certainly not all or even most, of the bad OL play is on him.
He doesn't diagnose defenses or where the pressure is going to come to from pre snap. Post snap he locks in one receiver he expects to be open and if it's not there he panics. He is awful when forced to improvise or throw on the run. All of that is not going to be cured by better players around him.
This GM and HC didn't draft him. They declined his 5th year option and I think they're going to move on from him at the end of the 2022 season the latest.
In 2020 and 2021, he reached that 7.5 YPA level 8 times, about the same rate as in 2019.
How about this idea? He is what he is. Those 2019 outings don’t represent his future but are natural outcomes from any athletes variability in performance.
Players have good games, bad games, and those in between. There’s no reason to believe the good games are what the player “really is.” They are his high points.
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Here believes that Daniel Jones will start and finish all 17 games? I think it’s highly likely that either due to injury or performance he won’t. And so it makes sense for Taylor to get some reps in with the first stringers.
Barring injury - I think Jones gets 6 games to show anything. If we are 1-5 or 0-6, a move will be made.
Injury? Always tough to predict.
He drew a very bad hand when he was drafted by the Giants. Horrible GM, bad HC's, bottom 3rd of the league roster on both sides of the ball around him. Horrible offensive line play. All of that is true. He's as tough a QB as Phil and Eli and that's the highest praise I can give.
But it's also true that the NFL game is too fast for him. He may have a Duke education and Duke IQ but his football IQ is low. He lacks the instincts and sixth sense that the great QB's have to feel the rush and to know when the ball needs to get out. Some of, certainly not all or even most, of the bad OL play is on him.
He doesn't diagnose defenses or where the pressure is going to come to from pre snap. Post snap he locks in one receiver he expects to be open and if it's not there he panics. He is awful when forced to improvise or throw on the run. All of that is not going to be cured by better players around him.
This GM and HC didn't draft him. They declined his 5th year option and I think they're going to move on from him at the end of the 2022 season the latest.
I'm a Daniel Jones fan and hoping he performs well this season. But I'm afraid your description is pretty much dead-on.
Jones will start struggle, probably confirm any and all doubts about him and we can move on.
That's obviously not the plan. But it makes sense for him to get some reps with the first team for a variety of smart reasons.
My view from day one has been Taylor should be given a fair shot to win the job because he is the only QB on the roster likely to be here next year. He is cost effective and a likely bridge to the next QB, assuming they draft one next year. On the very outside shot Jones gets a 2nd contract, Taylor should still be here as the backup due to cost.
Then given Jones' injury history thus far, it makes sense to have a backup primed to play.
Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, LJax, TrevLaw, JB.
As for Lawrence, I still think he will be worlds better, But, right now, with this team, I'm not so sure.
Jones will start struggle, probably confirm any and all doubts about him and we can move on.
It is a bit paradoxical for sure. But the NFCE is so ordinary as a conference, I really think we could win it with a better QB.
It's been such a long time winning anything that I would be willing to go for the NFCE; and still trust we could get a better QB because the 2023 QB class - right now - appears pretty deep in quality.
Further, I'm not sold on Bryce Young. So, missing out on him isn't really missing out in my book. Stroud is a different story. But if we can't grab him, there may potentially be 6-9 others who are worth a first-round investment.
Can we stop with this 4 good games crap? (And actually it was 5 games out of 12 over 300 yards, 4 exceptional games).
WHy do you get to cherry pick his stats? And can we stop with the Eli Manning crap?
Let's put things into context. Eli played 15 years ago. Eli got the start week 11 on .500 team that was awful the year before. Eli played on a team that went 11-5 his first full season.
Jones on the other hand has been playing on a bottom of the barrel team . He turned the ball over 39 times and only won 4 games. He put up some meaningless numbers in garbage time. So what?
I have to laugh at all these people blaming coaching. Garrett was not Vince Lombardi but a decent coach. Further, I always said the D Jones is in the conversation with some of Giants back-ups than he is with Eli, Josh allen , Herbert etc.
I think most agree that the starting job has been preordained to Jones. And TT is the hired back-up.
That doesn't mean, however, that's the best decision.
But do y'all give the same benefit of the doubt to the other 10 guys? Does Nate Solder get the benefit of the doubt because Jones is bad? How about Golladay? How about Engram?
Is Jones the only player who doesn't suck that's been a Giant for the last three years?
I have ceded the point Jones has not been surrounded by the best talent, coaching, and management (ownership incl).
But do you really want to challenge the differential in physical skills the players I mentioned have over Jones? (I'll carve TrevLaw out of this for now...)
Has it occurred to you that those QBs, while in better circumstances, have simultaneously lifted the team because they have more tools to do so? Do you think Jones can make even half the throws that Mahomes, Herbert or Allen can make when they are off-script? Because right now a lot of the success of an NFL team is based on off-script ability.
Do you think Jones runs as well as Allen or LJax? Do you think he holds up in the pocket as well as any of them?
Last year, Burrow played with an OL that was probably as bad - statistically - as any Jones had had. Yet, Burrow made play after play after play after play to get to a SB. In his rookie year, Herbert had the poorest pass blocking OL in football. Yet, he was great against pressure and had an all-time rookie campaign.
If Jones had any plus skills like the aforementioned, I would be bullish on the guy. But I continue to see a player with average skills only. And in order for him to possibly reach the success we want it's basically going to take a team building miracle.
Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing that posters can detect the obvious differences in skills between Jones and some of QBs I have mentioned.
If you don’t think he can physically play the position at a high enough level to be a quality QB in this league, then we simply don’t agree on that. Daniel Jones problems as a professional quarterback aren’t physical limitations of any kind. We’re talking about a guy who led the NFL in YPC 2 seasons ago. Look at the highlights from the Saints game last season. Look at the zip on his throws. His physical ability isn’t the problem… this isn’t Tua. I’m not sure your skills points even matters because if that was supremely important, the Giants would have ZERO Super Bowl victories. Even with Phil’s accuracy, Eli’s arm strength, and Hostetler’s mobility, none of their 3 Super Bowl winning QBs was the most physically gifted or skilled at any aspect of their position.
As physically talented as Pat Mahomes is, Andy Reid, Tyreek Hill, and Travis Kelce played a MAJOR role in his development. As physically gifted as Justin Herbert is, Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Austin Ekeler have played a major role in his development. Compare Rashan Slater’s rookie season to Andrew Thomas’. Joe Burrow’s offensive line has been abysmal. But compare his skill position players his rookie season to Daniel Jones’ rookie season. Then they added Jamarr Chase. (The Giants added Toney and Golladay, one guy who’s always hurt and another who can’t get open against the Giants backup corners in practice.) Watch the highlights of the Bengals Titans playoff game. On their first 2 drives, Joe Mixon and Jamarr Chase took a dump off and a WR screen 88 combined yards leading to scores. Do you see anyone on the Giants making plays like that?
This stuff matters when you’re trying to develop a QB. Jones has weaknesses that may have hampered his chances at ever being a quality QB in this league. However, if you think you’re going to drop one of those QBs you talked about into the situation the Giants had over the past 3 seasons and he’s going to look even remotely similar to what they look like now, I think you’re way off. The Giants have been a complete train wreck.
But do y'all give the same benefit of the doubt to the other 10 guys? Does Nate Solder get the benefit of the doubt because Jones is bad? How about Golladay? How about Engram?
Is Jones the only player who doesn't suck that's been a Giant for the last three years?
I don't even think Jones doesn't suck...but maybe he doesn't suck as bad as everyone else and he is on a rookie contract. If Engram didn't cost us an entire season by dropping a good pass, I'd probably be more forgiving. Golladay and Solder just flat out robbed us.
But do y'all give the same benefit of the doubt to the other 10 guys? Does Nate Solder get the benefit of the doubt because Jones is bad? How about Golladay? How about Engram?
Is Jones the only player who doesn't suck that's been a Giant for the last three years?
I don’t think that’s an unfair point - I have said a lot this off-season that our WRs are better than what most have said. OL is a little different since it’s a lot of 1-1 battles.
But I do agree our WRs sometimes get too much shit.
And no Engram doesn’t deserve any slack. He couldn’t block or catch haha.
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I have ceded the point Jones has not been surrounded by the best talent, coaching, and management (ownership incl).
But do you really want to challenge the differential in physical skills the players I mentioned have over Jones? (I'll carve TrevLaw out of this for now...)
Has it occurred to you that those QBs, while in better circumstances, have simultaneously lifted the team because they have more tools to do so? Do you think Jones can make even half the throws that Mahomes, Herbert or Allen can make when they are off-script? Because right now a lot of the success of an NFL team is based on off-script ability.
Do you think Jones runs as well as Allen or LJax? Do you think he holds up in the pocket as well as any of them?
Last year, Burrow played with an OL that was probably as bad - statistically - as any Jones had had. Yet, Burrow made play after play after play after play to get to a SB. In his rookie year, Herbert had the poorest pass blocking OL in football. Yet, he was great against pressure and had an all-time rookie campaign.
If Jones had any plus skills like the aforementioned, I would be bullish on the guy. But I continue to see a player with average skills only. And in order for him to possibly reach the success we want it's basically going to take a team building miracle.
Frankly, I think it's a bit embarrassing that posters can detect the obvious differences in skills between Jones and some of QBs I have mentioned.
If you don’t think he can physically play the position at a high enough level to be a quality QB in this league, then we simply don’t agree on that. Daniel Jones problems as a professional quarterback aren’t physical limitations of any kind. We’re talking about a guy who led the NFL in YPC 2 seasons ago. Look at the highlights from the Saints game last season. Look at the zip on his throws. His physical ability isn’t the problem… this isn’t Tua. I’m not sure your skills points even matters because if that was supremely important, the Giants would have ZERO Super Bowl victories. Even with Phil’s accuracy, Eli’s arm strength, and Hostetler’s mobility, none of their 3 Super Bowl winning QBs was the most physically gifted or skilled at any aspect of their position.
As physically talented as Pat Mahomes is, Andy Reid, Tyreek Hill, and Travis Kelce played a MAJOR role in his development. As physically gifted as Justin Herbert is, Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Austin Ekeler have played a major role in his development. Compare Rashan Slater’s rookie season to Andrew Thomas’. Joe Burrow’s offensive line has been abysmal. But compare his skill position players his rookie season to Daniel Jones’ rookie season. Then they added Jamarr Chase. (The Giants added Toney and Golladay, one guy who’s always hurt and another who can’t get open against the Giants backup corners in practice.) Watch the highlights of the Bengals Titans playoff game. On their first 2 drives, Joe Mixon and Jamarr Chase took a dump off and a WR screen 88 combined yards leading to scores. Do you see anyone on the Giants making plays like that?
This stuff matters when you’re trying to develop a QB. Jones has weaknesses that may have hampered his chances at ever being a quality QB in this league. However, if you think you’re going to drop one of those QBs you talked about into the situation the Giants had over the past 3 seasons and he’s going to look even remotely similar to what they look like now, I think you’re way off. The Giants have been a complete train wreck.
Agreed. Good post.
I think so, too.
Both are game manager types, right? The tiebreaker for me would come down to this question - who is going to make the fewest mistakes and potentially do enough off-script to create points. TT would check both boxes for me.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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some think DJ has been an innocent bystander, some think he's been a contributor to the train going off the rails
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
certainly plenty of slices of blame pie to go around. IMO, his slice is big enough to question his status as a starter sooner than later
DJ ceiling is a back up to a back up if he continues to turn the ball over
Where is the Daniel Jones that went 26-36 for 336 and 4 total TDs in his first career start. Where is THAT guy.
Where is the Daniel Jones that went 26-36 for 336 and 4 total TDs in his first career start. Where is THAT guy.
Any player can have ONE great game. It takes more than that to have a good career. Plus, no tape on the rookie. Once DC's got film, they exposed his weaknesses.
Against Belichick I believe too!