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NFT: Braves sign rookie CF Michael Harris II to 8 year extension

Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 12:34 pm
The Atlanta Braves made another move Tuesday night to lock up their young core long term, agreeing to an eight-year, $72 million extension with outfielder Michael Harris II.

The deal for 21-year-old Harris runs through the 2030 season and includes team options for 2031 ($15 million) and 2032 ($20M).

The Harris II extension was a very surprising but wise decision by the Braves. If Harris II is as good as this moving forward they locked up their 21 year old CF for 10 years and $107 million. This coming weeks after extending Austin Riley to a 10 year $212 million dollar deal. The Braves now have Riley, Harris II, Ronald Acuna Jr, Ozzie Albies, and Matt Olson signed long term.

I wonder what this means for SS Dansby Swanson. He is a FA at the end of the season but the Braves decided to extend Harris and Riley first despite them being under team control for years. With the emergence of new top prospect Vaugh Grissom they might feel like he is a better long term option than spending $25 million a year on Swanson.

That's not even the best news of the day for Atlanta. Mike Soroka made his first rehab start last night and looked dominant. He is expected to join the Braves rotation in September which would be a huge boost for their playoff hopes.


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in the grand scheme of things  
bigbluehoya : 8/17/2022 12:36 pm : link
I have very little to complain about as a NYY fan, but I really wish they operated more like the Braves do with respect to young talent.
RE: in the grand scheme of things  
terz22 : 8/17/2022 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15783214 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
I have very little to complain about as a NYY fan, but I really wish they operated more like the Braves do with respect to young talent.


Completely agree. Now look where we are with Judge. Glad they prioritized guys like Hicks...smh
The Mets should be doing the same  
johnnyb : 8/17/2022 12:41 pm : link
with Pete Alonso.
I mean, they basically just bought out his arbitration years +2, right  
wigs in nyc : 8/17/2022 12:43 pm : link
?

He would have already been under team control for 6 of those 8 years anyway - but now they've got options for two years on top of that. And I'm sure this goes a long way for the cementing the relationship with the player.

I guess we can be glad, at least, that we don't have Gary locked up for two more years?
Yesterday was a great day for the Braves.  
DCGMan : 8/17/2022 12:45 pm : link
Love the Harris deal.

You couldn't ask for a better first rehab assignment from Soroka. His fastball was around 93-94. Postgame, Soroka says his sinker is the best it's ever been.

On the down side, we face Scherzer-DeGrom-McCullers over the next three days. Brutal. Hopefully, Fried will be able to go against DeGrom or McCullers.
RE: I mean, they basically just bought out his arbitration years +2, right  
DCGMan : 8/17/2022 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15783221 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
?

He would have already been under team control for 6 of those 8 years anyway - but now they've got options for two years on top of that. And I'm sure this goes a long way for the cementing the relationship with the player.

I guess we can be glad, at least, that we don't have Gary locked up for two more years?


Harris is under control for eight years with two more club options ($15M in '31 and $20M in '32). Harris can buyout either of those two options for $5M.
RE: The Mets should be doing the same  
moze1021 : 8/17/2022 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15783219 johnnyb said:
Quote:
with Pete Alonso.


You mean should have in summer of 2019

Pete has little reason to give a significant discount now. He is a proven MLB asset.

Harris is doing this to mitigate risk, Braves are making a bet..

Swanson has to be re-signed  
GNewGiants : 8/17/2022 1:10 pm : link
I know Riley, Acuna, and Olson get the pub but Swanson is having a MVP type season. The Braves kind of took hot when he got hot and put in the 2 hole.
When we do it they turn into Hicks and Sevy.  
Jim in Hoboken : 8/17/2022 1:17 pm : link
Thank god we didn’t do it with Sanchez or Torres.
RE: I mean, they basically just bought out his arbitration years +2, right  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15783221 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
?

He would have already been under team control for 6 of those 8 years anyway - but now they've got options for two years on top of that. And I'm sure this goes a long way for the cementing the relationship with the player.

I guess we can be glad, at least, that we don't have Gary locked up for two more years?

They bought out 3 years of FA with options for 2 more years to potentially be 5 years.
RE: Swanson has to be re-signed  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 1:35 pm : link
In comment 15783238 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
I know Riley, Acuna, and Olson get the pub but Swanson is having a MVP type season. The Braves kind of took hot when he got hot and put in the 2 hole.

I really hope they keep Swanson if they can sign him for 5-6 years but I am concerned that he wants to test FA. He is a very clutch player who is a leader in the clubhouse.

Good signing  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2022 1:35 pm : link
but it's not exactly risk free.

The motivation for the player is he is now guaranteed $72M off a 70 game sample.

Only Wander Franco and Acuna got bigger contracts off less than a year of service time, and Franco and Acuna were far more heralded than Harris II.

RE: Good signing  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15783253 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but it's not exactly risk free.

The motivation for the player is he is now guaranteed $72M off a 70 game sample.

Only Wander Franco and Acuna got bigger contracts off less than a year of service time, and Franco and Acuna were far more heralded than Harris II.

There is definitely a risk but if he becomes a poor hitter at least he provides value defensively in CF while also contributing 20+ homeruns. As you said this is riskier gamble than Acuna and Riley.
The interesting thing  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2022 1:42 pm : link
is how many players would be willing to accept the trade off.

Let's face it, $72M is more than most people will earn in a lifetime and worst case he's a FA again at 31/32.

So, if more players were presented the choice at a young age of a guaranteed payout like this or wait the 6 years and hope your level of play remains high, you remain injury free, you remain scandal free (PED's, law, etc.) and then get paid - how many would choose the guaranteed $$$ knowing they would be leaving some on the table in many circumstances.

How many teams would be eager to lock up players after such a short period of major league history?
Very risky for Atlanta  
averagejoe : 8/17/2022 1:47 pm : link
If the kid flops they blew 72M. If he progresses to superstar level he will demand new contract . He is not really locked in for ten years .
RE: Very risky for Atlanta  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15783266 averagejoe said:
Quote:
If the kid flops they blew 72M. If he progresses to superstar level he will demand new contract . He is not really locked in for ten years .

You don't know if he will "demand a new contract". Acuna Jr. and Albies haven't.
RE: RE: Very risky for Atlanta  
Eric on Li : 8/17/2022 2:23 pm : link
In comment 15783279 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15783266 averagejoe said:


Quote:


If the kid flops they blew 72M. If he progresses to superstar level he will demand new contract . He is not really locked in for ten years .


You don't know if he will "demand a new contract". Acuna Jr. and Albies haven't.


agreed, there's no real trade demand mechanism in MLB and in practice i think it would only come into play at the real elite level (like Trout asking out).

with defensive value players there's not a ton of risk in a deal like this, sort of like when the mets gave Lagares and extension. He actually kind of tanked/got hurt after that and while they didn't get any of the expected surplus value he probably didn't get paid much less than what it would have cost to sign a good defensive backup CF for the 4 years. harris obviously has a much higher ceiling too.
I like this idea and wish the Yankees thought like this  
Matt M. : 8/17/2022 2:25 pm : link
It's not even a terrible risk. The salaries are escalating. They are essentially eliminating arbitration and 2 years of FA and overpaying a little to do so. But, think about it, even if he isn't a star, but a decent player by years 9 and 10, $15M and $20M respectively (the club options) aren't crazy for that many years of service. If he's a star, they're a bargain. If he wants out, he buys each year out for $5M, which means he has to get a deal with $20M and $25M just to break even.

He makes out well with that much guaranteed money at 21 based on less than half a season. He is set for life even without the club option years. And they may have just saved several millions of dollars, plus a lot of potential headaches.
RE: I like this idea and wish the Yankees thought like this  
Eric on Li : 8/17/2022 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15783294 Matt M. said:
Quote:
It's not even a terrible risk. The salaries are escalating. They are essentially eliminating arbitration and 2 years of FA and overpaying a little to do so. But, think about it, even if he isn't a star, but a decent player by years 9 and 10, $15M and $20M respectively (the club options) aren't crazy for that many years of service. If he's a star, they're a bargain. If he wants out, he buys each year out for $5M, which means he has to get a deal with $20M and $25M just to break even.

He makes out well with that much guaranteed money at 21 based on less than half a season. He is set for life even without the club option years. And they may have just saved several millions of dollars, plus a lot of potential headaches.


for big spending teams im not sure it makes as much sense. you still have plenty of leverage to extend a player 2 more years down the road when he has 4 years of service time left, and at that point the player will have had 2-3x the amount of playing time at the big league level.

in those 2 years you got a minimum salary player - which is key for teams giving out huge FA contracts. and can make a much more confident assessment of the future.

so basically i think for a middle payroll team it makes more sense to take more of the risk for more surplus value upside but for a big market team it's worth paying a little more to buy with greater confidence.
nothing is without it's risk  
bigbluehoya : 8/17/2022 2:45 pm : link
They've seen enough from him to believe that even on the downside, he's bringing to the table a skill-set that you'd be willing to pay $9M bucks for. Early returns on his play would suggest an ceiling that dwarfs the downside.

2.7 WAR in less than half of a season. His stat line is a bit in excess of his expected metrics, but not by an insane amount. He can come well off of his .875 OPS thus far and still be worth every penny of $9M per year, without factoring in any improvement in his K-BB% with further exposure to MLB pitching.

No brainer as far as I'm concerned.
Tatis  
pjcas18 : 8/17/2022 2:54 pm : link
Jr was also a no-brainer. How does SD feel now?

And sure Harris may be worth $9M, but considering his salary *would* have been $700,000 the Braves are overpaying the early years to hopefully make up for it in Harris' prime when he's getting paid $9M but worth $20M (for example).

there is absolutely risk, baseball history is littered with players who never reached their potential or who never duplicated early career success.

I think it's a good signing, but today it requires projection for it to work out for the Braves and there is a chance it does not.
There is always risk  
Vanzetti : 8/17/2022 3:04 pm : link
Imagine if Braves had locked up Jeff Francoeur after his initial half season. It would have been hailed as genius. Francoeur is just like Harris. Both local Atlanta area guys.

Only Francoeur was a better prospect and made a bigger initial splash.

But how would that have worked out?

Harris II seems like he will be a star. But you never know how things will work out.
RE: There is always risk  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15783318 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Imagine if Braves had locked up Jeff Francoeur after his initial half season. It would have been hailed as genius. Francoeur is just like Harris. Both local Atlanta area guys.

Only Francoeur was a better prospect and made a bigger initial splash.

But how would that have worked out?

Harris II seems like he will be a star. But you never know how things will work out.

Good point, Francouer was not a gold glove caliber CF though. He also lacked plate discipline which is also something that Harris II has to work on. It will be interesting to see how Harris does next year when teams start to make adjustments. Also the Braves have protected him by batting him 9th for much of the season.
RE: RE: I mean, they basically just bought out his arbitration years +2, right  
Mad Mike : 8/17/2022 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15783226 DCGMan said:
Quote:
Harris can buyout either of those two options for $5M.

Those buyouts are the team's, not Harris'. They can pay him $5 mil in 2031 to walk away from the option. Presumably they'd only have to pay him $5 mil as a buyout in 2032 if they've already exercised the 2031 option.
The Mets should have done this years ago with Alonso  
moespree : 8/17/2022 3:13 pm : link
Now he will require a fortune. I am sure Cohen will give it to him though, but still. They had a window to lock him up in a much cheaper deal.
RE: RE: There is always risk  
Vanzetti : 8/17/2022 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15783319 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15783318 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Imagine if Braves had locked up Jeff Francoeur after his initial half season. It would have been hailed as genius. Francoeur is just like Harris. Both local Atlanta area guys.

Only Francoeur was a better prospect and made a bigger initial splash.

But how would that have worked out?

Harris II seems like he will be a star. But you never know how things will work out.


Good point, Francouer was not a gold glove caliber CF though. He also lacked plate discipline which is also something that Harris II has to work on. It will be interesting to see how Harris does next year when teams start to make adjustments. Also the Braves have protected him by batting him 9th for much of the season.


He had the best arm I have ever seen.

But I see what you're saying about CF.
I know many don't value steals  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 3:35 pm : link
but Harris is also a good baserunner. He is 13/13 in steals in 71 games. If he improves his walk rate he would make an ideal leadoff man which would finally allow the Braves to move Acuna to the #2 spot.
Braves are onto something  
Gmanfandan : 8/17/2022 3:36 pm : link
And it may be the wave of the future

They now have Acuna Riley Harris and Olson locked up. Thats a huge part of a starting 9 - half the infield and 2/3 of the outfield. They don't have to worry about either wanting to cash in or leaving via FA. And Harris is the real deal - never know about injury but the kid can play.

Swanson is said to be gone.

All that being said - Max gotta grind one out for us tonight and hand it to Jake with a chance to split what has become an embarrassing trip to the ATL (actually its Marietta, GA which is where all the rich white baseball viewers live a good 30 min from Atlanta in typical traffic)
RE: Braves are onto something  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15783365 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
And it may be the wave of the future

They now have Acuna Riley Harris and Olson locked up. Thats a huge part of a starting 9 - half the infield and 2/3 of the outfield. They don't have to worry about either wanting to cash in or leaving via FA. And Harris is the real deal - never know about injury but the kid can play.

Swanson is said to be gone.

All that being said - Max gotta grind one out for us tonight and hand it to Jake with a chance to split what has become an embarrassing trip to the ATL (actually its Marietta, GA which is where all the rich white baseball viewers live a good 30 min from Atlanta in typical traffic)

The Braves aren't the first team to do this but they certainly are doing it far more frequently than most. They also have Albies locked up long term and with the arrival of top prospect Vaughn Grissom it wouldn't surprise me if the Braves moved Albies back to SS if Swanson leaves while inserting Grissom as the full time 2B.
The Braves are taking calculated risks  
JoeyBigBlue : 8/17/2022 4:11 pm : link
On their young talent. It could blow up in their faces, if these start to suck or get hurt. Remember Houston signing Jon Singleton to a 10 million dollar contract before reaching the majors. You probably don’t, because Singleton was an awful big leaguer who flopped terribly in the big leagues.
RE: The Braves are taking calculated risks  
Jay on the Island : 8/17/2022 4:14 pm : link
In comment 15783400 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
On their young talent. It could blow up in their faces, if these start to suck or get hurt. Remember Houston signing Jon Singleton to a 10 million dollar contract before reaching the majors. You probably don’t, because Singleton was an awful big leaguer who flopped terribly in the big leagues.

That was a ridiculous gamble to extend a player prior to reaching the majors especially a first baseman. If they play a premium defensive position like SS or CF then at least you can recoup some value if they are good defensively.
I really dont think  
Gmanfandan : 8/17/2022 4:37 pm : link
It's much of a risk. A good deal for both sides.

They, and he has insurance if he's injured, and a CF playing at the level he is now will always be valuable - even if it's only a wide-eyed GM who thinks his is the team that can make the kid reach past glory.

He also has the inside track for RoY

I wish more teams (including Mets) would operate this way to excite the fan base and have multiple players invest 8-10 more years in the team. Its also great for the other players seeing what kind of culture is being built. Not a bunch of 1 and 2 year prove it contracts but cornerstones of the franchise being embraced by the club.
Braves are somewhat different  
Vanzetti : 8/18/2022 2:47 pm : link
in that they recruit from their region way more than other teams. Their scouts have personal connections with high school and college coaches throughout the South.

Think about how many Braves come from the South:

Wright and Swanson from Vanderbilt
Strider from Clemson
Harris II from Georgia
Austin R from MS
Grissom from Florida I believe

Back in the day, Frenchy and Chipper

In contrast, is there a Met from the NY Metro area other than Ottavino? And he is just a one year deal
So, as long as they have this recruiting network  
Vanzetti : 8/18/2022 2:50 pm : link
they can afford to let guys like Swanson go, preserving their financial flexibility.

RE: Braves are somewhat different  
Matt M. : 8/18/2022 2:52 pm : link
In comment 15784437 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
in that they recruit from their region way more than other teams. Their scouts have personal connections with high school and college coaches throughout the South.

Think about how many Braves come from the South:

Wright and Swanson from Vanderbilt
Strider from Clemson
Harris II from Georgia
Austin R from MS
Grissom from Florida I believe

Back in the day, Frenchy and Chipper

In contrast, is there a Met from the NY Metro area other than Ottavino? And he is just a one year deal
There haven't been many. But, to that end, NY Metro doesn't produce a ton of blue chip baseball prospects. Most of the big names are from the South, Southwest, and West. Primarily, this is because they play far more baseball with better weather. Both HS and college have Fall programs, which you don't get in the Northeast.
RE: RE: Braves are somewhat different  
Vanzetti : 8/18/2022 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15784443 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15784437 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


in that they recruit from their region way more than other teams. Their scouts have personal connections with high school and college coaches throughout the South.

Think about how many Braves come from the South:

Wright and Swanson from Vanderbilt
Strider from Clemson
Harris II from Georgia
Austin R from MS
Grissom from Florida I believe

Back in the day, Frenchy and Chipper

In contrast, is there a Met from the NY Metro area other than Ottavino? And he is just a one year deal

There haven't been many. But, to that end, NY Metro doesn't produce a ton of blue chip baseball prospects. Most of the big names are from the South, Southwest, and West. Primarily, this is because they play far more baseball with better weather. Both HS and college have Fall programs, which you don't get in the Northeast.


That's interesting. In the past, so many great players came out of NY: Koufax, Torre, the Iron Horse, Yaz, Whitey Ford, Frankie V, Mazilli, even ARod
RE: RE: RE: Braves are somewhat different  
Matt M. : 8/18/2022 3:10 pm : link
In comment 15784457 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15784443 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 15784437 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


in that they recruit from their region way more than other teams. Their scouts have personal connections with high school and college coaches throughout the South.

Think about how many Braves come from the South:

Wright and Swanson from Vanderbilt
Strider from Clemson
Harris II from Georgia
Austin R from MS
Grissom from Florida I believe

Back in the day, Frenchy and Chipper

In contrast, is there a Met from the NY Metro area other than Ottavino? And he is just a one year deal

There haven't been many. But, to that end, NY Metro doesn't produce a ton of blue chip baseball prospects. Most of the big names are from the South, Southwest, and West. Primarily, this is because they play far more baseball with better weather. Both HS and college have Fall programs, which you don't get in the Northeast.



That's interesting. In the past, so many great players came out of NY: Koufax, Torre, the Iron Horse, Yaz, Whitey Ford, Frankie V, Mazilli, even ARod
ARod was born here, but didn't grow up here.

In the goldern era of baseball, you got a ton because baseball was not yet a year round sport at the school level. In the last 30-40 years, that has been a different story. You still get some big prospects (Manny Ramirez, Viola, John Franco, even if you want to count Ottavino), but you don't get a lot of blue chippers or even 2nd tier in comparison with other regions.
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