and I stand by that. This is an extremely young team with a 1st year HC and OC. There will be lots of growing pains, but that is a good thing - at least there will be growth.
Wink's defense will keep them in games. But I do not think they have enough tools on offense, yet. We are arguing over Jones and Taylor - that is enough to sink a season.
I do expect them to be better then they have been since 2016. I do expect them to be "competitive" in that they will not be running QB sneaks on 2nd and 3rd downs. I do expect they will be creative and flop on more than a few plays. But I think they will be fun to watch for once.
Who's panicking? Most still have low expectations for this squad. No matter how much lipstick you put on it, DJ is still the QB. But I'm still expecting 7 wins before all is said and done. Losing Getts makes us instantly better and the QB change after a few games should help. But those expecting 9 wins are in the minority.
Who's panicking? Most still have low expectations for this squad. No matter how much lipstick you put on it, DJ is still the QB. But I'm still expecting 7 wins before all is said and done. Losing Getts makes us instantly better and the QB change after a few games should help. But those expecting 9 wins are in the minority.
2 more seasons before the STINK of Dave Gettleman is gone
Nobody's walking out on this fun, old-fashioned family Christmas. No, no. We're all in this together. This is a full-blown, four-alarm holiday emergency here. We're gonna press on, and we're gonna have the hap, hap, happiest Christmas since Bing Crosby tap-danced with Danny F***ing Kaye. And when Santa squeezes his fat white body down that chimney tonight, he's gonna find the jolliest bunch of a**holes this side of the nuthouse
FWIW, whether he ultimately had a good, bad, or indifferent regular season, I seem to recall Eli looking shitty or uninspiring in MOST training camps and preseason games. Same with the offense. Camp and preseason was RARELY an accurate indicator of how good or bad the team (or QB) would be in the regular season (in the years when they were competitive).
The regular season will hang on all the things we know and have said it would hang on BEFORE camp started:
Will the OL improve and stay healthy?
Can Jones take the next step with improved protection, a modern offense tailored to his strengths, and improved weapons?
Can the WRs stay on the field?
Can the D pressure opposing QBs?
NONE of that will be answered in camp or the preseason.
FWIW, whether he ultimately had a good, bad, or indifferent regular season, I seem to recall Eli looking shitty or uninspiring in MOST training camps and preseason games. Same with the offense. Camp and preseason was RARELY an accurate indicator of how good or bad the team (or QB) would be in the regular season (in the years when they were competitive).
The regular season will hang on all the things we know and have said it would hang on BEFORE camp started:
Will the OL improve and stay healthy?
Can Jones take the next step with improved protection, a modern offense tailored to his strengths, and improved weapons?
Can the WRs stay on the field?
Can the D pressure opposing QBs?
NONE of that will be answered in camp or the preseason.
The last Super Bowl won I believe they went 0-4 in the preseason and looked like dog shit on defense and run game. It wasn't until they won some close games and saw the opportunity to rally that they did so and closed out with one of the best underdog post season runs against stiff competition the NFL will ever witness. Can THIS team do that? No one can say but the odds are certainly against them right now.
Who's panicking? Most still have low expectations for this squad. No matter how much lipstick you put on it, DJ is still the QB. But I'm still expecting 7 wins before all is said and done. Losing Getts makes us instantly better and the QB change after a few games should help. But those expecting 9 wins are in the minority.
Unless theres an injury at QB there will be no change. Taylor is the backup and if Jones comes on thats good if he sucks ass we get a very high 1st round draft choice to get out future QB
The only fans who panic are those who foolishly believe a set of improbable outcomes are likely to occur.
If the Giants have a magical immediate renaissance, that's wonderful. Far more likely, the staff and young players have a learning curve that will take a few years.
I have 0 expectations for this team. They hit the reset button yet again, so who is thinking Daboll is walking in the door and making this a winning team. Not me.
I'm optimistic for the future, but this year is going to be a lot of watching for progress in the young guys and hoping that Schoen has the scouting situation fixed.
and the higher end only becomes possible because our schedule is weak. I would still bet on the lower end because this is not a talented roster. This is going to take time and I believe in Schoen and Daboll, they both sound reasonable and intelligent. I don't believe either Daboll or Schoen is a miracle maker and that is what would be needed to make us a winning ballclub this season. Just give them the time, because we stink right now.
New GM, new HC, new OC, new DC, QB heading into the most important season of his life in year 4 and last year of his deal.
The pressure is all on Jones. If he shows improvement and protects the ball they may re-sign him or franchise him. If not, Taylor is signed for next year and we look to draft a QB.
The Oline is improving. Barkley is our most explosive offensive weapon still. We haven't replaced OBJ in the playing making WR roll.
Our Defense looks to be the strength of the team.
Next off season will be when this team really starts to take form. Possible new rookie QB, Barkley return? draft a WR, cut Golliday and sign a new WR? Draft another CB high?
We get to sit back and expect nothing but growth. Winning this year isn't super important. If we win it will be because Jones stays healthy and plays well. Period.
then it's been. I fully expect Jones to not be on the field for the whole season, unless somehow he magically learns to slide instead of plowing forward into the defense. The guy is nutz/rash, bashing heads against a pro-defense.
I just don't see how this WR and TE corps is going to make the offense competitive, and the defensive backfield is just plain porous. The fact that the defense is ahead of the offense is an indicator of just how bad this offense really is. Keep in mind that the second string offense of the Pats had its way with this defensive secondary.
They may steal a few games by gambling and playing lower echelon teams -- manufacturing a rpo running/pass offense, but a good team should be able to beat this team handily as configured.
Loser mentality leads to losing culture. We need to turn around the culture even more than the talent.
Look at the Jets, they root for draft picks every year and they stink. No thanks. Let's win and worry about draft status and future QBs during the off season.
That said, we simply get way too much information these days. All of us know full well
*the D is always ahead of the offense early.
*it takes time to install a new offensive scheme.
*a Wink Martindale D is very challenging to install on, and something even Belichick complained about. Daboll is dealing with what Bill is complaining about every day.
Yet many of us just can't help ourselves but to judge now, anyway. It's way too early to do anything but observe. I thought the 1st preseason game went pretty well, and that's the best thing we have to evaluate.
Right now, I'm most interested in improving processes and systems, much more so than results. The roster is still distinctly short of talent, and so I'm not expecting more than maybe 5 or 6 wins, particularly given the quarterback they're stuck with for another season. I like what I've seen from Schoen so far with talent acquisition, given the constraints Gettleman's cap mismanagement left him with. I'd like to see signs of good coaching that we didn't see last year. Record, for now anyway, isn't a big deal.
Build a strong foundation now and add talent to it going forward, and the winning will come.
There’s stinkage with a purpose and building something and then there is just stinkage. If we suck fine, but the D has to show something this year. So does the OL. And if those two units can show something the stink might not be that stinky, even if they lose a lot of games.
Please show us something this season. Star power. Please.
Right now, I'm most interested in improving processes and systems, much more so than results. The roster is still distinctly short of talent, and so I'm not expecting more than maybe 5 or 6 wins, particularly given the quarterback they're stuck with for another season. I like what I've seen from Schoen so far with talent acquisition, given the constraints Gettleman's cap mismanagement left him with. I'd like to see signs of good coaching that we didn't see last year. Record, for now anyway, isn't a big deal.
Build a strong foundation now and add talent to it going forward, and the winning will come.
Well said. This season is about looking like an NFL team who is able to get the right people on the field, run the correct play, and plays to compete rather than minimize the humiliation. If that happens then we are one step closer that we were last year.
There was little Schoen could do this offseason to field a competitive team given what he inherited.
Realistically, the best thing you're hoping for this year is being competitive and improvement as the year progresses. Especially on offense, the dysfunction on offense last year was some of the absolute worst football they have ever played. Wink is going to get after it on defense and he has a few capable pieces that will help his scheme out.
There’s stinkage with a purpose and building something and then there is just stinkage. If we suck fine, but the D has to show something this year. So does the OL. And if those two units can show something the stink might not be that stinky, even if they lose a lot of games.
Please show us something this season. Star power. Please.
They're still missing parts on the OL and defense, especially up front on both lines and CB.
Process”, I hope it means that they are building on those basics. We haven’t seen the shifts and motions that we thought were coming based on the pedigrees of the HC and OC. I hope they started by teaching the end of the play, post snap, and are working their way back to the pre-snap beginning. Many teach concepts that way.
Two preseason games to go. Hopefully, we start to see more movement.
Too many posters are thinking that Paul Schwartz is suggesting that FANS shouldn't panic, when he's really talking about Daboll and the Giants...not the fans.
Here's the actual headline for the article:
Brian Daboll’s Giants aren’t panicking over offensive growing pains
For some odd reason I always think, in the back of my mind maybe,
That the Giants should win 7 to 9 games during a meh season. I put the schedule into my calendar on Tuesday and as I was doing it, I could find maybe 4 wins. 6 if we are extremely lucky and well coached. having a weak and thin secondary on Winks defense doesn't seem to bode well. I concur with Gidie, the WR and TE groups are not inspiring. Our best receiver is our RB1 and he can't always be put in when we pass because he SUCKS at blocking. I guess the two things I'll be looking for are a decent run game and healthy LB's who can rush the QB and stop the run.....otherwise hockey season starts in OCtober right?
I think many of you are underestimating how good a chance
As many have already noted; to panic, you need expectations that you fear will not be met. Anyone in that situation with the current Giants team probably needs to recalibrate a bit.
This team is going to be pretty bad.
RE: I think many of you are underestimating how good a chance
the Giants have of getting the overall #1 pick next year.
We have been knocking on the door for several years now and this could finally be it...
I think we are a 3-7 win team, but our schedule is so weak that I think it will get us out of the top pick pool. Houston is really bad and so are the Bears. Atlanta is probably on par with us; maybe Lawrence takes a step and Jacksonville. I am thinking we are picking from 3-5.
RE: RE: I think many of you are underestimating how good a chance
the Giants have of getting the overall #1 pick next year.
We have been knocking on the door for several years now and this could finally be it...
I think we are a 3-7 win team, but our schedule is so weak that I think it will get us out of the top pick pool. Houston is really bad and so are the Bears. Atlanta is probably on par with us; maybe Lawrence takes a step and Jacksonville. I am thinking we are picking from 3-5.
Your post made me go back and look at the schedule again. 3 wins is depressing and makes it hard to go into the season wanting to watch. The teams I FEEL like we stand a chance against; Car, Chi, Jax, Sea, Hou & Det. Maybe 1 against Wash or Dal or Phi. From the 1st 6, I can come up with a reason why they could beat us....except for Chi (they are porbably the only FO & Ownership combo that was and STILL is worse than ours). So with my most OPTIMISTIC view, 7 wins. But as depressing as 3 is, its a distinct possibility :(
I somehow suspect someone in the Giants FO isn't on board 100% with Schoen and Daboll's vision of a rebuild and I couldn't possibly imagine who that might be....
If you were thinking a coaching change was going to have this team shooting for 9 wins, then of course you're panicking.
Yup.
Wink's defense will keep them in games. But I do not think they have enough tools on offense, yet. We are arguing over Jones and Taylor - that is enough to sink a season.
I do expect them to be better then they have been since 2016. I do expect them to be "competitive" in that they will not be running QB sneaks on 2nd and 3rd downs. I do expect they will be creative and flop on more than a few plays. But I think they will be fun to watch for once.
Yep, fan's expectations are often out of control. I am a great example from last season. I feel like I know better than that. But, what can I say?
2 more seasons before the STINK of Dave Gettleman is gone
FWIW, whether he ultimately had a good, bad, or indifferent regular season, I seem to recall Eli looking shitty or uninspiring in MOST training camps and preseason games. Same with the offense. Camp and preseason was RARELY an accurate indicator of how good or bad the team (or QB) would be in the regular season (in the years when they were competitive).
The regular season will hang on all the things we know and have said it would hang on BEFORE camp started:
Will the OL improve and stay healthy?
Can Jones take the next step with improved protection, a modern offense tailored to his strengths, and improved weapons?
Can the WRs stay on the field?
Can the D pressure opposing QBs?
NONE of that will be answered in camp or the preseason.
Or, perhaps Will Anderson ...
but we really need a QB
FWIW, whether he ultimately had a good, bad, or indifferent regular season, I seem to recall Eli looking shitty or uninspiring in MOST training camps and preseason games. Same with the offense. Camp and preseason was RARELY an accurate indicator of how good or bad the team (or QB) would be in the regular season (in the years when they were competitive).
The regular season will hang on all the things we know and have said it would hang on BEFORE camp started:
Will the OL improve and stay healthy?
Can Jones take the next step with improved protection, a modern offense tailored to his strengths, and improved weapons?
Can the WRs stay on the field?
Can the D pressure opposing QBs?
NONE of that will be answered in camp or the preseason.
The last Super Bowl won I believe they went 0-4 in the preseason and looked like dog shit on defense and run game. It wasn't until they won some close games and saw the opportunity to rally that they did so and closed out with one of the best underdog post season runs against stiff competition the NFL will ever witness. Can THIS team do that? No one can say but the odds are certainly against them right now.
Unless theres an injury at QB there will be no change. Taylor is the backup and if Jones comes on thats good if he sucks ass we get a very high 1st round draft choice to get out future QB
If the Giants have a magical immediate renaissance, that's wonderful. Far more likely, the staff and young players have a learning curve that will take a few years.
I'm optimistic for the future, but this year is going to be a lot of watching for progress in the young guys and hoping that Schoen has the scouting situation fixed.
Exactly, so they can stink away. It'll only help us in the long run.
The pressure is all on Jones. If he shows improvement and protects the ball they may re-sign him or franchise him. If not, Taylor is signed for next year and we look to draft a QB.
The Oline is improving. Barkley is our most explosive offensive weapon still. We haven't replaced OBJ in the playing making WR roll.
Our Defense looks to be the strength of the team.
Next off season will be when this team really starts to take form. Possible new rookie QB, Barkley return? draft a WR, cut Golliday and sign a new WR? Draft another CB high?
We get to sit back and expect nothing but growth. Winning this year isn't super important. If we win it will be because Jones stays healthy and plays well. Period.
Loser mentality leads to losing culture. We need to turn around the culture even more than the talent.
I just don't see how this WR and TE corps is going to make the offense competitive, and the defensive backfield is just plain porous. The fact that the defense is ahead of the offense is an indicator of just how bad this offense really is. Keep in mind that the second string offense of the Pats had its way with this defensive secondary.
They may steal a few games by gambling and playing lower echelon teams -- manufacturing a rpo running/pass offense, but a good team should be able to beat this team handily as configured.
Quote:
gives us a better shot at the next QB anywho.
Loser mentality leads to losing culture. We need to turn around the culture even more than the talent.
Look at the Jets, they root for draft picks every year and they stink. No thanks. Let's win and worry about draft status and future QBs during the off season.
That said, we simply get way too much information these days. All of us know full well
*the D is always ahead of the offense early.
*it takes time to install a new offensive scheme.
*a Wink Martindale D is very challenging to install on, and something even Belichick complained about. Daboll is dealing with what Bill is complaining about every day.
Yet many of us just can't help ourselves but to judge now, anyway. It's way too early to do anything but observe. I thought the 1st preseason game went pretty well, and that's the best thing we have to evaluate.
Right now, I'm most interested in improving processes and systems, much more so than results. The roster is still distinctly short of talent, and so I'm not expecting more than maybe 5 or 6 wins, particularly given the quarterback they're stuck with for another season. I like what I've seen from Schoen so far with talent acquisition, given the constraints Gettleman's cap mismanagement left him with. I'd like to see signs of good coaching that we didn't see last year. Record, for now anyway, isn't a big deal.
Build a strong foundation now and add talent to it going forward, and the winning will come.
There’s stinkage with a purpose and building something and then there is just stinkage. If we suck fine, but the D has to show something this year. So does the OL. And if those two units can show something the stink might not be that stinky, even if they lose a lot of games.
Please show us something this season. Star power. Please.
Right now, I'm most interested in improving processes and systems, much more so than results. The roster is still distinctly short of talent, and so I'm not expecting more than maybe 5 or 6 wins, particularly given the quarterback they're stuck with for another season. I like what I've seen from Schoen so far with talent acquisition, given the constraints Gettleman's cap mismanagement left him with. I'd like to see signs of good coaching that we didn't see last year. Record, for now anyway, isn't a big deal.
Build a strong foundation now and add talent to it going forward, and the winning will come.
Well said. This season is about looking like an NFL team who is able to get the right people on the field, run the correct play, and plays to compete rather than minimize the humiliation. If that happens then we are one step closer that we were last year.
There was little Schoen could do this offseason to field a competitive team given what he inherited.
Quote:
gives us a better shot at the next QB anywho.
There’s stinkage with a purpose and building something and then there is just stinkage. If we suck fine, but the D has to show something this year. So does the OL. And if those two units can show something the stink might not be that stinky, even if they lose a lot of games.
Please show us something this season. Star power. Please.
They're still missing parts on the OL and defense, especially up front on both lines and CB.
Two preseason games to go. Hopefully, we start to see more movement.
One of several reasons that trading for Jimmy G makes no sense.
Quote:
gives us a better shot at the next QB anywho.
One of several reasons that trading for Jimmy G makes no sense.
Correct. I think the JG fans are overrating NYG.
Here's the actual headline for the article:
Brian Daboll’s Giants aren’t panicking over offensive growing pains
We have been knocking on the door for several years now and this could finally be it...
This team is going to be pretty bad.
We have been knocking on the door for several years now and this could finally be it...
I think we are a 3-7 win team, but our schedule is so weak that I think it will get us out of the top pick pool. Houston is really bad and so are the Bears. Atlanta is probably on par with us; maybe Lawrence takes a step and Jacksonville. I am thinking we are picking from 3-5.
Quote:
the Giants have of getting the overall #1 pick next year.
We have been knocking on the door for several years now and this could finally be it...
I think we are a 3-7 win team, but our schedule is so weak that I think it will get us out of the top pick pool. Houston is really bad and so are the Bears. Atlanta is probably on par with us; maybe Lawrence takes a step and Jacksonville. I am thinking we are picking from 3-5.
Your post made me go back and look at the schedule again. 3 wins is depressing and makes it hard to go into the season wanting to watch. The teams I FEEL like we stand a chance against; Car, Chi, Jax, Sea, Hou & Det. Maybe 1 against Wash or Dal or Phi. From the 1st 6, I can come up with a reason why they could beat us....except for Chi (they are porbably the only FO & Ownership combo that was and STILL is worse than ours). So with my most OPTIMISTIC view, 7 wins. But as depressing as 3 is, its a distinct possibility :(
give it thru sept and see where we are at
\Titans will be a tough opening game, would like to win vs panthers
I somehow suspect someone in the Giants FO isn't on board 100% with Schoen and Daboll's vision of a rebuild and I couldn't possibly imagine who that might be....