NFT: Mets at Braves Game 4. deGrom

time I’ve disagreed with Buck all year was bringing in Lugo in that spot.

come on Pete!

You couldn’t play worse than we have in this series. Impossible.

Someone had to miss a sign there.

This pitcher and his slow delivery, swings first pitch.

because Jansen is so slow to the plate. Pete has to take the first pitch

From dumbass Alderson down to Nimmo, Lindor, and Alonso

Still 3 1/2 ahead.

And series.

.

In comment 15784806 schabadoo said:

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This pitcher and his slow delivery, swings first pitch.

hasn't homered in forever, he's gripping.

In comment 15784806 schabadoo said:

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This pitcher and his slow delivery, swings first pitch.

That was baseball 101. Embarrassing.

In comment 15784812 MyNameIsMyName said:

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And series.

A hard series to lose. But we're still 3 1/2 games ahead, and I'd rather be us then them. For them. this was a playoff series, and I don't believe it was for the Mets. If anything, the Mets looked flat to me. Maybe they were tight, maybe they were tired from the series with Philly, but they didn't look good to my eyes.

they exposed some of the roster's weaknesses but they had to pretty much play their best to do it and only barely held off a split.

this sort of reminds me of the game they lost to Philly in extras last week. Philly didn't make any mistakes, Mets did, crappy loss. But the Phillies also couldn't sustain that level of play over the series. Atlanta is better than Philly but unless injuries keep piling up the mets are the better team.

In comment 15784826 Eric on Li said:

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they exposed some of the roster's weaknesses but they had to pretty much play their best to do it and only barely held off a split. this sort of reminds me of the game they lost to Philly in extras last week. Philly didn't make any mistakes, Mets did, crappy loss. But the Phillies also couldn't sustain that level of play over the series. Atlanta is better than Philly but unless injuries keep piling up the mets are the better team.

I was thinking the same thing, that the Braves were playing with desperation, and they didn't really outplay us, except for game 1, in spite of our losing Walker and Carasco to injuries, as well as Guillorme and someone else, I believe. Their backs were to the wall, and ours's are not.
Theirs's are still to the wall.

Now, I think it's Bucky's job to get them on track and help them learn from the mistakes they made, help them put the loss in perspective, and move on to Philly and start playing good ball again.

Butto only pitched an inning. Lends credence to the theory he is pitching this weekend

because of how they lost it - no lefty to bring in vs Harris, Nimmo assuming Grissom was stopping at 3rd, Alonso not taking the pitch in the most obvious steal situation of the season, Lindor not finding the ball

As lucky as the Braves are, watch Houston no show against them this weekend

to allow Grissom to get on base

Add all that up and its a bad loss

Nimmo and Pete need to start hitting. Lets hope the bandbox in Philly gets them going. We are on the wrong side of the pitching matchups in that series

Offense needs to bail out the pitching staff this weekend

But by going 4-1 in the previous series, they gave themselves some leeway.

Still 3.5 up

Pulled it out of ballpark. Now hitting .278 on the year with an .888 ops.
https://twitter.com/syracusemets/status/1560456683444473857?s=21&t=3yI1XXnLQSKY_CtH-C2ftA - ( New Window )

Vientos for coming in and getting Harris out

Grissom has wheels - very tough play. That’s the wrong scapegoat.

Ruf should not have cut the nimmo throw off. Obviously not a great throw, that is not Nimmos strength, but he might have got Grissom if the ball goes through

They played an atrocious series. At least they got one game

by 1/2 game, I believe. Now were up by 3.5. We are still in a much better position then they are.
I don't have any doubts that we'll make the playoffs, but I want 1st place. I also want to really crush the Braves every chance we get, because of how they have humiliated us for the last 30 years.
But the truth is, I'm not really all that upset. We're still 3.5 games up on them, and I believe that we are a better team. Yes, they hit more home runs, but we have a much better pitching staff then they do, and in a short series good pitching is more important than good hitting, most of the time.
No one wants to face the Mets, with our pitching, even if we don't win our division, no one wants to face Scherzer and DeGrom. No one.

In comment 15784849 MetsAreBack said:

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Grissom has wheels - very tough play. That’s the wrong scapegoat. Ruf should not have cut the nimmo throw off. Obviously not a great throw, that is not Nimmos strength, but he might have got Grissom if the ball goes through They played an atrocious series. At least they got one game

I think Ruf had to cut it off. It was way off line and would never have made it to the plate in time.

The hope is that Baty's bat outweighs his defense. That worked last night, but not tonight

And the problem with being below average defensively is that if you make a mistake in the late innings the team doesn't have much time to recoup the runs you gave up

I already mentioned there are several scapegoats, not just one

We got hurt by some unfortunate injuries and lack of hitting in key spots in this series, but its not the end of the world. As long as we maintain a lead in the division through next weekend the schedule really eases up for us and will be very tough for the braves to catch up.

Brandon Nimmo is a good player, home grown, with a lot to like about his game.

With that said, I am wondering how enthusiastically the Mets will move to sign him after this season.

I think his agent is Boras, which is not a good start. No matter, some team out there will offer big money and I just wonder if the mets will get into a contract/money war over Nimmo.

He's so close to being "great," but this year, at least, his numbers are not great...perhaps I am missing some high tech analytics about MPH of his batted balls, etc, but I am admittedly a bit old school about these things...he's hitting .264, OPB down a bit this year at .348 and he is playing a very good, CF.

The Mets have so many free agents, starting with deGrom and Diaz....I hope they resign Nimmo, I just wonder how feasible it will be ultimately?

We all are giving a pass to Baty. The kid is an overall plus fpr us at 3rd, comsidering the production we've gotten out of that spot in the batting order. His defense isn't like Escobar's or Luis G's, but we're still very fortunate to have him to "fall back on" under these circumstances. They had better keep him on at this point.

Don't feel down on last nights game. think about what had to go right for the Braves to win that one.
Ruffs almost HR was foul
Then harris has a GREAT AB against the games best pitcher.
Harris reaches and pulls a relatively weak GB to the pull side. Baty has to dive, Lindor probably fields it if it gets through.
I don't think either one throws Harris out. The whole AB and GB, everything went Braves way.
Then, they happen to have Harris running on the play, Nimmo is playing deep. From there, EVERYTHING went Braves way. Ball barely passed pitchers glove, seeing eye through both infielders, Nimmo is deep, they send Harris, not a strong throw, cutoff ornot, fairly close play at the plate. Hats off to the Brave on that play, but literally a 1% chance of scoring on that play, but they got every single break on it.

And even if they throw him out, it's a tie game - no guarantee they pull it out anyway.

Want to criticize Baty for the play, go ahead. But no one can say thats a high probability play by anyone not named Arenado. And is also blatantly ignoring his excellent backhand play earlier in the game. Which I'll preface by saying "Alonso would have never scooped it and it would have been an error on Baty" crowd lol

In comment 15784975 Shecky said:

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Don't feel down on last nights game. think about what had to go right for the Braves to win that one. Ruffs almost HR was foul Then harris has a GREAT AB against the games best pitcher. Harris reaches and pulls a relatively weak GB to the pull side. Baty has to dive, Lindor probably fields it if it gets through. I don't think either one throws Harris out. The whole AB and GB, everything went Braves way. Then, they happen to have Harris running on the play, Nimmo is playing deep. From there, EVERYTHING went Braves way. Ball barely passed pitchers glove, seeing eye through both infielders, Nimmo is deep, they send Harris, not a strong throw, cutoff ornot, fairly close play at the plate. Hats off to the Brave on that play, but literally a 1% chance of scoring on that play, but they got every single break on it. And even if they throw him out, it's a tie game - no guarantee they pull it out anyway. Want to criticize Baty for the play, go ahead. But no one can say thats a high probability play by anyone not named Arenado. And is also blatantly ignoring his excellent backhand play earlier in the game. Which I'll preface by saying "Alonso would have never scooped it and it would have been an error on Baty" crowd lol

i kind of look at the whole series (and the lost to the phillies last week) through a similar lens.

it's not lucky, but it takes a lot for teams to beat this group. exceptional defensive plays, great at bats against good pitching, rain delays, injuries, excellent performances from morton, strider, fried, pretty much perfect relief outings, etc.

again im not discounting or calling it bad luck, if anything it's the opposite because this is how playoff games go. you need to know how to play in that environment and win and bounce back after losses.

and re baty's defense anyone nitpicking it is a moron. he's been at least the equal to escobar so far and probably better with no mistakes. nimmo's throw on the other hand was unbelievably bad. like nido's dropped tag last week. those are details this group needs to clean up or they will be what costs them a game 7.

But to put it in perspective, they basically had to play 2 bullpen games due to starter injuries/weather.

The Braves are a great team though as much as we all hate them so this was never going to be an easy task to win the division.

A few observations:

This offense goes as Alonso goes. He’s been in a slump and even more specifically a power slump and needs to come out of it fast. Hopefully citizens bank gets him right.

Last night the play of the game wasn’t the go ahead run for Atlanta but Lindor’s base running blunder in the 9th. Not killing him because he’s been awesome but that’s a different game if we start off the 9th with 2 on and no outs. Gary kept saying all Lindor had to do was look up and he was right.

Huge weekend to state the obvious but the Braves have Houston so there is a chance to increase the lead again. Once past the Yanks (even though struggling still the Yanks) there is only the 4 game set with the Dodgers left as a difficult series. Keep the lead into September and they should be able to maintain.

In comment 15784975 Shecky said:

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Don't feel down on last nights game. think about what had to go right for the Braves to win that one. Ruffs almost HR was foul Then harris has a GREAT AB against the games best pitcher. Harris reaches and pulls a relatively weak GB to the pull side. Baty has to dive, Lindor probably fields it if it gets through. I don't think either one throws Harris out. The whole AB and GB, everything went Braves way. Then, they happen to have Harris running on the play, Nimmo is playing deep. From there, EVERYTHING went Braves way. Ball barely passed pitchers glove, seeing eye through both infielders, Nimmo is deep, they send Harris, not a strong throw, cutoff ornot, fairly close play at the plate. Hats off to the Brave on that play, but literally a 1% chance of scoring on that play, but they got every single break on it. And even if they throw him out, it's a tie game - no guarantee they pull it out anyway. Want to criticize Baty for the play, go ahead. But no one can say thats a high probability play by anyone not named Arenado. And is also blatantly ignoring his excellent backhand play earlier in the game. Which I'll preface by saying "Alonso would have never scooped it and it would have been an error on Baty" crowd lol

Are you drunk?

1. Grissom hit the ball Baty didnt make the play on, not Harris

2. Grissom "happened to be running" because it was a 3-2 count with 2 outs. Maybe if your father/uncle/however you are related to Alderson had done his job right for once and traded for a lefty reliever it would not have gotten to a 3-2 count on Harris

3. Here is the only thing you got right - it was a lucky seeing eye single by Harris

4. Nimmo blew it by assuming Grissom would stop at 3rd, thats why he made a weak throw to Ruf

5. It wasnt that hard of a play on Grissom. Guillorme and Marrero make it, Escobar makes it 80% of the time. It wasnt a full out head first dive on a scalded hit. It is OK to admit Baty's glove will cost the Mets just as his bat will help the Mets. In G3 his bat helped. Last night his glove hurt

6. Yes, the odds of Alonso scooping that throw earlier in the game are low. It was a good play by Baty that 90% of 3B make

7. I have stated that Alderson, Lindor, Alonso (for not taking that 1st pitch so Lindor could steal in the most obvious steal situation of the season), and Nimmo were also goats in this game

After Canha double and Baty single with no outs early in the game.. that was pretty damn huge. Can't have 2 Ks in that spot.

In comment 15785069 Chris684 said:

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But to put it in perspective, they basically had to play 2 bullpen games due to starter injuries/weather. The Braves are a great team though as much as we all hate them so this was never going to be an easy task to win the division. A few observations: This offense goes as Alonso goes. He’s been in a slump and even more specifically a power slump and needs to come out of it fast. Hopefully citizens bank gets him right. Last night the play of the game wasn’t the go ahead run for Atlanta but Lindor’s base running blunder in the 9th. Not killing him because he’s been awesome but that’s a different game if we start off the 9th with 2 on and no outs. Gary kept saying all Lindor had to do was look up and he was right. Huge weekend to state the obvious but the Braves have Houston so there is a chance to increase the lead again. Once past the Yanks (even though struggling still the Yanks) there is only the 4 game set with the Dodgers left as a difficult series. Keep the lead into September and they should be able to maintain.

It's only a 3-game set with the Dodgers. We've 4 games in Philly (tomorrow's a doubleheader), 2 in the BX, followed by an off day and 4 game home series against the crappy Rockies followed up by another off day, and then the Dodgers. IF we get to September 2nd 3 or 4 games up in the division, then I like our chances due to the ease of the Mets' September schedule.

The only winning team they'll play in September are the Brewers in Milwaukee (Sept. 19 to 21), who will be playing for their playoff lives by that point in all likelihood. Other than them, the games will be against MLB's weak sisters:

Pirates - @ Pitt (3 games) & home to Pitt (4 games)
Marlins - @ Miami (3 games) & home to Miami (2 games)
Cubs - Home to CC (3 games)
A's - @ Oak (3 games)

The last 6 games of the year are against the Braves in Atlanta again (3 games from 9/30 to 10/2) and the worst team in MLB---the Nats---@ Citi Field (3 games from 10/3 to 10/5). We've got no doubleheaders left after the one tomorrow and 4 off days in September: the 8th, 22nd, 26th, & 29th.

The Mets NEED to get healthy though and stay healthy (Megill, Smith, Luis G, Cookie, Escobar, & Walker), while getting a continued jolt out of non-productive spots in the order: 3B and Catcher. Look at how the team took off after Vogelbach and Ruff were acquired at DH. I wanna play Baty down the stretch. Escobar is costing the team. Let Escobar come in as a late inning defensive replacement and let him play against lefties, but that's all. All at bats against righties should go to Baty from now on. I wanna see them bring up Alvarez too in September. Enough of this dilly dallying around. It's time to make a run for the roses. This is a team that can win a WS.

In comment 15785107 moze1021 said:

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After Canha double and Baty single with no outs early in the game.. that was pretty damn huge. Can't have 2 Ks in that spot.

yup. 1 was mccann and the other was nimmo.

vogelbach has also cooled to a pretty good degree (closer to his pitt numbers pre-trade). his august triple slash is .234/.333/.489 for an 823 ops. that is almost exactly in line with his career norms vs righties, which is a solid player but not necessarily a 5 hitter in a top lineup.

there's a window to give vientos a shot playing some 3b to give baty days off vs lefties and mixing in at dh. the rockies and phillies each have a lefty lined up to start in the next 10 games, so it seems pretty reasonable to give him those 2 plus a few at DH. Vientos has 0 errors in August in a bunch of starts at 3b/1b.

the first lefty up is bailey falter (who has a near 5 era and near 1000 ops against from righties) during Saturday's double header so it makes plenty of sense to not start Baty in both games (and not have to waste a start on Marrero).

Hunter is eligible to get activated sunday after the doubleheader, so they i think there should be an easy opportunity to clear a spot for vientos by dropping down 1 less RP. Clay and Nogosek should be the innings eaters in blowouts today to try to keep the pen fresh for tomorrow, Vientos should get activated for one of them tomorrow along with Peterson as the extra player for the DH, and then Hunter should come up on Sunday (along with probably Butto for the start if Walker has to hit the IL).

They're basically close to 100 loss teams when averaged together at this point (99). The Mets this season have won slightly more than two thirds of the games played against crappy teams. I forgot to include the Nats in my previous post---the worst team of them all---in this.

Including the 4 games at Citi against the Rockies and the 3 game set to end the season at Citi against the Nats and the Mets will have 28 of their last 43 games against the absolute dregs of baseball. If they go 19-8 against these crap teams who will be playing out the string and go about 500 against the Phillies, Yankees, Dodgers, Brewers, and Braves (say 8-7), then the Mets, who are 76-43 now, are probably gonna win over 100 games--103 according to this logic.

Get to the three-game Braves series starting on September 30th in Atlanta 4 games up, and I love the Mets' chances to win the division. They could even celebrate winning the division them by winning one game on their field. wouldn't that be sweet?! How about that for motivation? It's all in front of them. Just gotta go out and grab it.

In comment 15785134 Optimus-NY said:

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They're basically close to 100 loss teams when averaged together at this point (99). The Mets this season have won slightly more than two thirds of the games played against crappy teams. I forgot to include the Nats in my previous post---the worst team of them all---in this. Including the 4 games at Citi against the Rockies and the 3 game set to end the season at Citi against the Nats and the Mets will have 28 of their last 43 games against the absolute dregs of baseball. If they go 19-8 against these crap teams who will be playing out the string and go about 500 against the Phillies, Yankees, Dodgers, Brewers, and Braves (say 8-7), then the Mets, who are 76-43 now, are probably gonna win over 100 games--103 according to this logic. Get to the three-game Braves series starting on September 30th in Atlanta 4 games up, and I love the Mets' chances to win the division. They could even celebrate winning the division them by winning one game on their field. wouldn't that be sweet?! How about that for motivation? It's all in front of them. Just gotta go out and grab it.

this is correct. the key for this team is continuing to grind things out the way they have all year. they are not a juggernaut that beats teams with overwhelming talent (with the exceptions of when jdg/scherzer/diaz are on the mound, but that's much less than half of the time).

they win by playing solid fundamental baseball and grinding every at bat. they aren't so talented to not fail at both like they did yesterday but all year that's been the exception not the rule and with the schedule as you point out if they keep it that way they will win the division. the one thing i think they do need to be a little less stubborn about is the value that can be added with talent as we saw with Baty. If Escobar was 100% healthy is there any doubt he would have been less productive than Baty was the last few games? Baty hit the ball harder than Escobar has all year. On 6 batted balls he averaged 95 mph.

Don't see a minor league thread for the day. Parada debuted and so far is 2-2 with a double and a walk. Jett is back in lineup after leaving early yesterday.

In comment 15785145 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 15785134 Optimus-NY said: Quote: They're basically close to 100 loss teams when averaged together at this point (99). The Mets this season have won slightly more than two thirds of the games played against crappy teams. I forgot to include the Nats in my previous post---the worst team of them all---in this. Including the 4 games at Citi against the Rockies and the 3 game set to end the season at Citi against the Nats and the Mets will have 28 of their last 43 games against the absolute dregs of baseball. If they go 19-8 against these crap teams who will be playing out the string and go about 500 against the Phillies, Yankees, Dodgers, Brewers, and Braves (say 8-7), then the Mets, who are 76-43 now, are probably gonna win over 100 games--103 according to this logic. Get to the three-game Braves series starting on September 30th in Atlanta 4 games up, and I love the Mets' chances to win the division. They could even celebrate winning the division them by winning one game on their field. wouldn't that be sweet?! How about that for motivation? It's all in front of them. Just gotta go out and grab it. this is correct. the key for this team is continuing to grind things out the way they have all year. they are not a juggernaut that beats teams with overwhelming talent (with the exceptions of when jdg/scherzer/diaz are on the mound, but that's much less than half of the time). they win by playing solid fundamental baseball and grinding every at bat. they aren't so talented to not fail at both like they did yesterday but all year that's been the exception not the rule and with the schedule as you point out if they keep it that way they will win the division. the one thing i think they do need to be a little less stubborn about is the value that can be added with talent as we saw with Baty. If Escobar was 100% healthy is there any doubt he would have been less productive than Baty was the last few games? Baty hit the ball harder than Escobar has all year. On 6 batted balls he averaged 95 mph.

+1 E

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Locked On Mets @LockedOnMets 1m Mark Vientos since May 1 (65 games): - 281 PA, .309/.384/.586, 20 HR, 54 RBI, 29 XBH, 155 wRC+ How much longer can #Mets hold him back from MLB pitching?

i dont think there's any rational expectation to think a player can do more to earn a promotion. If a 40+ homer, 110+ rbi pace while hitting .300 and drawing enough walks to OPS over 1000 doesn't do it, what does?

give the guy a shot at some DH reps. especially now while there's roster room, lefties upcoming, and he can even provide some depth at 3b since it may be necessary.

At this point he is insurance in case Ruf does not hit as right-handed DH.

And Mets are keeping him at AAA so he gets regular ABs

But since he is such a piece of shit as a human, and ohhh fuck the whiney Brave Bitches.

Cheers to Marcel Ozuna

Mets have all RH starters, most of whom are death to RH hitters.

They also have a righty dominant pen, but Olsen and Harris are Braves only LH hitters, apart from Fast Eddie (who is still batting .170). .

That's why to me it is a little disappointing not get at least a split in this series. OTOH, Mets are 7-5 against them since break. So they did what they had to do.

In comment 15785255 Shecky said:

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But since he is such a piece of shit as a human, and ohhh fuck the whiney Brave Bitches. Cheers to Marcel Ozuna

The cops who caught him got lucky, he was barely driving outside the lines they had an unfair strike zone.

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Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo Nick Plummer cleared waivers. The Mets outrighted him to Triple-A Syracuse. The team also designated Deven Marrero for assignment to clear roster space for Yolmer Sánchez. Tim Healey @timbhealey Mets taxi squad in Philly: David Peterson (starting tomorrow), Jose Butto, Nate Fisher, Rob Zastryzny.

tonight the whole pen should be available. Lugo only threw 11 pitches yesterday, Givens threw 13. Neither pitched the day prior.

Nogosek and Clay are extra arms for any blow out innings who can be deactivated tomorrow if necessary ahead of the DH'er.

tonight isn't a must win but it's close knowing tomorrow's starters are both spot guys and the phillies have Wheeler against 1 of them.

In comment 15785278 Eric on Li said:

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Quote: Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo Nick Plummer cleared waivers. The Mets outrighted him to Triple-A Syracuse. The team also designated Deven Marrero for assignment to clear roster space for Yolmer Sánchez. Tim Healey @timbhealey Mets taxi squad in Philly: David Peterson (starting tomorrow), Jose Butto, Nate Fisher, Rob Zastryzny. tonight the whole pen should be available. Lugo only threw 11 pitches yesterday, Givens threw 13. Neither pitched the day prior. Nogosek and Clay are extra arms for any blow out innings who can be deactivated tomorrow if necessary ahead of the DH'er. tonight isn't a must win but it's close knowing tomorrow's starters are both spot guys and the phillies have Wheeler against 1 of them.

Yeah that long no doubleheader sweep streak seems to be in peril doesn't it?

In comment 15785278 Eric on Li said:

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Quote: Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo Nick Plummer cleared waivers. The Mets outrighted him to Triple-A Syracuse. The team also designated Deven Marrero for assignment to clear roster space for Yolmer Sánchez. Tim Healey @timbhealey Mets taxi squad in Philly: David Peterson (starting tomorrow), Jose Butto, Nate Fisher, Rob Zastryzny. tonight the whole pen should be available. Lugo only threw 11 pitches yesterday, Givens threw 13. Neither pitched the day prior. Nogosek and Clay are extra arms for any blow out innings who can be deactivated tomorrow if necessary ahead of the DH'er. tonight isn't a must win but it's close knowing tomorrow's starters are both spot guys and the phillies have Wheeler against 1 of them.

Pretty sure Nogosek cannot be demoted again.

but im not sure if the new rule applies to when rosters expand in september (maybe) or playoff rosters (doubt it since that's a different thing altogether).

either way Hunter is rejoining the team to be activated on Sunday (likely for Clay). Nogosek is likely on the cutline next when Megill is ready. Luchessi is rehabbing too and id think the possibility of finding a lefty will get him a shot.

with 10 days until rosters expand losing a filler arm like Nogosek isn't a big deal since he's very doubtful to make the playoff roster.

Clay will likely be 1 of those 40 man spots.

Lee could be another since they already retained Plummer despite removing him (and there are plenty of OF-capable players ahead of both at this point).

Nogosek is almost definitely next up after that so that's another cut line he's on the edge of.

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Players may only be optioned five times per season; after that, it requires outright assignment waivers to assign the player to the Minor Leagues.

id probably guess it's more likely he doesn't get claimed than gets claimed but it's a coin flip.