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NGT - Russell Wilson's availability; Giants made a call...

bw in dc : 9/7/2022 2:56 pm
This is a very good article from ESPN how the relationship between Wilson and the Seattle FO deteriorated, and how he ultimately ended-up in Denver.

I was surprised to read how much winning the MVP was important to Wilson. Assuming that is true, there is a real selfishness about Wilson I didn't expect.

But I thought this was the most interesting nugget:

Quote:
The Seahawks received calls from the Broncos and several other teams, including the Saints, New York Giants and Washington Commanders. They knew Wilson wanted Denver, according to a front-office source, but kept New Orleans involved in the bidding so the Broncos would have to compete against another offer.


I recall reading that we should be in the Wilson sweepstakes, but nothing that is this concrete and specific in the media.

Would absolutely love to know more details. Because if we actually made a call to inquire, my guess is Schoen did the math and was willing to figure out how to make it work with Wilson.

Maybe we really wanted to make it happen, but Wilson looked at the team and thought a championship caliber opportunity was too far away. So, he cut the Giants out...?


Wilson-Seattle relationship - ( New Window )
I wonder what type of influence  
JonC : 9/7/2022 2:58 pm : link
the wife's celebrity etc might impact RW. Tend to think celebrities aren't often self-aware or unselfish, and there's always people around feeding their ego beast.
You think we have cap problems now?  
Tom from LI : 9/7/2022 3:00 pm : link
Glad we didn't follow through...
interesting for sure  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2022 3:00 pm : link
our roster certainly didn't help us but i'm pretty certain the money works if you want it to. My guess is this wasn't a one way road though, Schoen likely did his due diligence and removed the Giants from consideration at that trade package.
I sure hope they inquired  
Producer : 9/7/2022 3:00 pm : link
It would be a dereliction of duty not to.
RE: You think we have cap problems now?  
Producer : 9/7/2022 3:02 pm : link
In comment 15805873 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
Glad we didn't follow through...


The cap is not a good reason to not inquire about an elite QB. The cap can be manipulated. Obtaining an elite QB is a lot more difficult.
34 year old quarterback .  
joeinpa : 9/7/2022 3:04 pm : link
Would he have made Giants contenders in next two seasons?

Not sure how I feel about the idea of him having been a Giant
RE: RE: You think we have cap problems now?  
Tom from LI : 9/7/2022 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15805877 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15805873 Tom from LI said:


Quote:


Glad we didn't follow through...



The cap is not a good reason to not inquire about an elite QB. The cap can be manipulated. Obtaining an elite QB is a lot more difficult.



We are way more than a QB away from a championship. I am ok with taking more lumps to get the right young QB if we are building for sustained success..

Russell Wilson is not Tom Brady.
RE: 34 year old quarterback .  
Producer : 9/7/2022 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15805881 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Would he have made Giants contenders in next two seasons?

Not sure how I feel about the idea of him having been a Giant


Brady is 45. Rodgers is 38. Wilson is a better athlete than both of them.
The Giants are in rebuild mode  
Archer : 9/7/2022 3:06 pm : link
Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.
I SWEAR I WAS GOING TO CALL SEATTLE ABOUT WILSON.  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2022 3:07 pm : link
I SWEAR IT!

RE: RE: RE: You think we have cap problems now?  
Producer : 9/7/2022 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15805884 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15805877 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15805873 Tom from LI said:


Quote:


Glad we didn't follow through...



The cap is not a good reason to not inquire about an elite QB. The cap can be manipulated. Obtaining an elite QB is a lot more difficult.




We are way more than a QB away from a championship. I am ok with taking more lumps to get the right young QB if we are building for sustained success..

Russell Wilson is not Tom Brady.


Sure... the Bengals go from worse garbage than us to the SB in 2 years, but we're still not ready, we'll never be ready. You're take is poor and self-serving.
RE: The Giants are in rebuild mode  
Producer : 9/7/2022 3:09 pm : link
In comment 15805887 Archer said:
Quote:
Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.


A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.
That was a great article  
Pork Chop : 9/7/2022 3:10 pm : link
but Wilson clearly wanted to go to a team with better skill positions and an OL than Seattle had--hard to believe he would have come to the Meadowlands. The Seahawks re-build would have been a better project if that's what he wanted.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You think we have cap problems now?  
GNewGiants : 9/7/2022 3:10 pm : link
In comment 15805889 Producer said:
Quote:

Sure... the Bengals go from worse garbage than us to the SB in 2 years, but we're still not ready, we'll never be ready. You're take is poor and self-serving.


Yeah also had nothing to do with getting Chase, Hendrickson, Higgins, among other players as well.

SB teams have talent all over their place on their team. Sure go get Wilson, and what else do you have on the Giants? You still might be the 3rd best team in the division.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You think we have cap problems now?  
Tom from LI : 9/7/2022 3:12 pm : link



Quote:
Sure... the Bengals go from worse garbage than us to the SB in 2 years, but we're still not ready, we'll never be ready. You're take is poor and self-serving.


I guess I can't be that far off... they didn't do it.

I actually think 2022 Wilson  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2022 3:15 pm : link
has much more success here than 2022 Brady.
The Giants would be better with Wilson at QB  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/7/2022 3:17 pm : link
and still limited with their cap bungling.
RE: That was a great article  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 3:17 pm : link
In comment 15805893 Pork Chop said:
Quote:
but Wilson clearly wanted to go to a team with better skill positions and an OL than Seattle had--hard to believe he would have come to the Meadowlands. The Seahawks re-build would have been a better project if that's what he wanted.


It was a terrific article indeed. It seemed very well researched and thorough. The split in opinion in the Seattle FO about Wilson's play going forward was fascinating...
Meh  
Spider43 : 9/7/2022 3:17 pm : link
I think Wilson is cooked.
Wilson still has plenty of game in my view. Not hard to realize  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2022 3:20 pm : link
though looking at our Offensive roster (not a pun) that the very picks that Schoen would have to use to get Wilson couldn't go to essential OL and WR/TE help.

Obtaining an elite QB is not that difficult.  
NoPeanutz : 9/7/2022 3:21 pm : link
All it takes is multiple first round picks. Rebuilding a shitty team without draft picks and cap space is much, much more difficult.
RE: RE: 34 year old quarterback .  
RCPhoenix : 9/7/2022 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15805886 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15805881 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Would he have made Giants contenders in next two seasons?

Not sure how I feel about the idea of him having been a Giant



Brady is 45. Rodgers is 38. Wilson is a better athlete than both of them.


This is a weird take, QB isn't about who is the best athlete.
RE: Meh  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2022 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15805907 Spider43 said:
Quote:
I think Wilson is cooked.


Based on what, a broken throwing hand messing up his season? He was really really good before that freak injury.
it's a call they had to make - he's an MVP level QB  
Eric on Li : 9/7/2022 3:23 pm : link
he probably has 3-5 years left at that level. the price tag may not have made sense but it was a call they had to make in case it did.
RE: You think we have cap problems now?  
BillyM : 9/7/2022 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15805873 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
Glad we didn't follow through...


Yeah, we also have winning problems now. You realize we either pay Jones next year sizable money or we start all the way over.
RE: RE: The Giants are in rebuild mode  
monstercoo : 9/7/2022 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15805891 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15805887 Archer said:


Quote:


Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.



A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.


You can’t compare what happened with Burrow/Bengals to this. Wilson comes with a huge contract.
And Burrow only  
NoPeanutz : 9/7/2022 3:30 pm : link
cost them one pick.
Why not  
Payasdaddy : 9/7/2022 3:34 pm : link
Do your dd on everything
Glad we didnt make move though
RE: interesting for sure  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15805874 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
our roster certainly didn't help us but i'm pretty certain the money works if you want it to. My guess is this wasn't a one way road though, Schoen likely did his due diligence and removed the Giants from consideration at that trade package.


The heart of the package Seattle received from Denver was: two first round picks (2022 and 2023), two second rounders and Fant, Shelby and Lock. IMV, the most interesting part of those players was Fant/TE. I have always liked Lock's talent, but he's a real roll of the dice.

I have to imagine we could have gotten there with something similar with the picks and offer up a combination of players like Jones (similar to Lock) and/or SB (Carroll loves running the ball) and/or LW and/or Toney.

Yes, it didn't happen. I'm being rhetorical here, but I wonder if it was the ask by Seattle (comp), the hope of DJ working out, the 2023 QB class potential, etc.

Because if I'm Schoen, I'm thinking about all of those variables if I decide to pull out of further talks.

RE: Obtaining an elite QB is not that difficult.  
Producer : 9/7/2022 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15805911 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
All it takes is multiple first round picks. Rebuilding a shitty team without draft picks and cap space is much, much more difficult.


You have it backwards.
The issue with Wilson  
Skittlebish : 9/7/2022 3:45 pm : link
is he is going to play one way. This is part of the reason Seattle was willing to move on. His refusal to adjust his style as he ages makes him very risky, and it was a bet the Seahawks were not willing to make. Denver was, and having a first time HC makes it easier; Russ is going to dictate and run that offense, and there is no one with the stature to say otherwise. I would expect another fast start from him, and the altitude isn't going to hurt his already amazing deep throws. But when he starts getting hit and cannot move as well he will start to regress again IMO, and they will struggle towards the latter half of the season.
RE: RE: Obtaining an elite QB is not that difficult.  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 3:52 pm : link
In comment 15805941 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15805911 NoPeanutz said:


Quote:


All it takes is multiple first round picks. Rebuilding a shitty team without draft picks and cap space is much, much more difficult.



You have it backwards.


It's easy to find an elite QB. They are like finding RBs.

Just put a quarter in the machine, turn the handle, and, presto, an elite QB!
knowing NYG called  
djm : 9/7/2022 3:54 pm : link
makes me feel better.
RE: RE: You think we have cap problems now?  
djm : 9/7/2022 3:56 pm : link
In comment 15805877 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15805873 Tom from LI said:


Quote:


Glad we didn't follow through...



The cap is not a good reason to not inquire about an elite QB. The cap can be manipulated. Obtaining an elite QB is a lot more difficult.



thank you.

Not sure I would have been willing to part with Neal and Thibs, but i'd sure think about it. IN the end, we are where we are. Now let's build this thing.
It's called do diligence  
ZogZerg : 9/7/2022 3:59 pm : link
Glad the call was made.

But, never a series contender with the Roster we have.
RE: knowing NYG called  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15805956 djm said:
Quote:
makes me feel better.


Same. It also says how the new administration feels about Jones.
Due diligence  
Giants : 9/7/2022 4:08 pm : link
Is what Schoen was doing. This information has been out there for some time as far as Schoen calling.
..  
Sean : 9/7/2022 4:13 pm : link
Quote:
Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
The #Giants were reportedly one of the teams to call about trading for Russell Wilson. They didn’t pick up Daniel Jones 5th yr rookie option shortly after. They signed Tyrod to a two-year backup $ deal.
Tbh, I’m not sold on the fan narrative that this is a prove it year for DJ.
RE: ..  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2022 4:17 pm : link
In comment 15805985 Sean said:
Quote:


Quote:


Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
The #Giants were reportedly one of the teams to call about trading for Russell Wilson. They didn’t pick up Daniel Jones 5th yr rookie option shortly after. They signed Tyrod to a two-year backup $ deal.
Tbh, I’m not sold on the fan narrative that this is a prove it year for DJ.



Yep. Who is?
Thanks, Sean...  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 4:18 pm : link
I don't recall that.
He’s  
Les in TO : 9/7/2022 4:21 pm : link
A winner and still probably has another good five years but given the price I understand why Schoen did not engage in a competitive bid. Would have been a huge gamble in his first offseason.

Nevertheless, between this and the Giants not picking up Jones’ option, the direction of travel seems highly likely that there will be a new starter in 23.
RE: ..  
DanMetroMan : 9/7/2022 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15805985 Sean said:
Quote:


Quote:


Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
The #Giants were reportedly one of the teams to call about trading for Russell Wilson. They didn’t pick up Daniel Jones 5th yr rookie option shortly after. They signed Tyrod to a two-year backup $ deal.
Tbh, I’m not sold on the fan narrative that this is a prove it year for DJ.



Huh? He thinks ones will be back in 2024 if he doesn't "prove it" this year?
Think of the logic  
k2tampa : 9/7/2022 4:25 pm : link
Of people saying Wilson would have made the Giants better and a contender. How well did he do that for Seattle? Tell me again, which Giant receiver matches Metcalf. Or Lockett. Or Everett.
No  
PakistanPete : 9/7/2022 4:26 pm : link
he thinks Jones is gone regardless.
RE: RE: ..  
DanMetroMan : 9/7/2022 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15806003 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15805985 Sean said:


Quote:




Quote:


Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
The #Giants were reportedly one of the teams to call about trading for Russell Wilson. They didn’t pick up Daniel Jones 5th yr rookie option shortly after. They signed Tyrod to a two-year backup $ deal.
Tbh, I’m not sold on the fan narrative that this is a prove it year for DJ.





Huh? He thinks ones will be back in 2024 if he doesn't "prove it" this year?


Meaning next season. That seems absurd to me. Daboll/Schoen are going to hitch their wagons to Daniel Jones if he doesn't "prove it" this year, his 4th NFL season?
RE: No  
DanMetroMan : 9/7/2022 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15806005 PakistanPete said:
Quote:
he thinks Jones is gone regardless.


If he somehow has a huge season of course they will bring him back. What kind of opinion is that? It's unlikely that happens (a big breakout) but if he did, he'd be back, no questions asked.
RE: RE: No  
PakistanPete : 9/7/2022 4:30 pm : link
In comment 15806009 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
If he somehow has a huge season of course they will bring him back. What kind of opinion is that? It's unlikely that happens (a big breakout) but if he did, he'd be back, no questions asked.


Yes. I agree with you. Not my opinion.
To  
DanMetroMan : 9/7/2022 4:34 pm : link
be clear I'm not a Daniel Jones believer but if he has a "breakout" season they would be nuts not to bring him back. Nobody will remember the first 3, and losing your QB while trying to build something is a major step backwards.
DMM..  
Sean : 9/7/2022 4:35 pm : link
I interpret that as him saying the decision has already been made that Jones is gone barring anything outrageous from a production standpoint.
Schneier is suggesting that Schoen has already  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2022 4:39 pm : link
made up his mind that Jones will not be coming back.

That it doesn't really matter what he proves/doesn't prove in 2022, despite what some fans are saying...


Denver gave up 2 first round picks,  
MOOPS : 9/7/2022 4:41 pm : link
two second round picks, Noah Fant, Shelby Harris, +, and in addition took on a boatload of salary for Wilson.
How would we possibly rebuild given our cap situation at the time plus the state of the team?

Sorry, I gotta throw the phone call into the due diligence file.
RE: DMM..  
DanMetroMan : 9/7/2022 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15806019 Sean said:
Quote:
I interpret that as him saying the decision has already been made that Jones is gone barring anything outrageous from a production standpoint.


I'm sure there is a gray area where he can be "better" and they still move on but why does he have to be "outrageous"? Again, I'm not even a believer but if he shows "significant" progress and grasp of the offense it defies reason they would move on.
Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
GeofromNJ : 9/7/2022 4:52 pm : link
in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.
I  
AcidTest : 9/7/2022 4:56 pm : link
think Schoen and Daboll are already 90% certain that this is the last year for Jones. This phone call is just more proof, along with not picking up his fifth year option, and signing Taylor to a two year deal. It's all an example of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

Martinez and Bradberry are already gone. Jones, Barkley, Golladay, Shepard, and Slayton likely will be after this season as well.
Because  
AcidTest : 9/7/2022 4:58 pm : link
the Giants didn't pick up his fifth year option, he's a FA after this season. That means that Giants will either have to use the FT on him, which will be about $30M for a QB IIRC, or sign him to a long-term deal. He'd have to play unbelievable well to even justify the former, which is extremely unlikely.
RE: RE: DMM..  
Sean : 9/7/2022 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15806027 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15806019 Sean said:


Quote:


I interpret that as him saying the decision has already been made that Jones is gone barring anything outrageous from a production standpoint.



I'm sure there is a gray area where he can be "better" and they still move on but why does he have to be "outrageous"? Again, I'm not even a believer but if he shows "significant" progress and grasp of the offense it defies reason they would move on.

Economics are a big part in addition to his evaluation versus whoever comes out next year.
RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
Producer : 9/7/2022 5:07 pm : link
In comment 15806038 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.


The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.
I expect we were thinking of trading some of our larger contracts.  
Giant John : 9/7/2022 5:17 pm : link
Actually glad it didn’t happen.we have a young team. I want a young QB as part of our core.
RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 5:22 pm : link
In comment 15806038 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.


I'm very bullish on the 2023 QB class. I think we can pick in the high teens, low 20s and still grab a QB with terrific physical attributes.

That's the strength of this class - arm talent/physical attributes.

I from the school of thought you can teach a player how to play QB, but you can't teach them how to throw a frozen rope on a dime, twenty yards down the field, while on the run. That's a huge plus in today's game. Hell, I would call it a pre-requisite.
RE: RE: The Giants are in rebuild mode  
speedywheels : 9/7/2022 5:23 pm : link
In comment 15805891 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15805887 Archer said:


Quote:


Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.



A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.


LOL - the skill position players on CIN are just slightly better than NYG...
RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in rebuild mode  
Producer : 9/7/2022 5:28 pm : link
In comment 15806055 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 15805891 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15805887 Archer said:


Quote:


Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.



A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.



LOL - the skill position players on CIN are just slightly better than NYG...


You can laugh in your cereal, pal. They weren't so much better when they earned the Burrow pick. And have you considered that one of the problems our skill players face is our QB?
RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
section125 : 9/7/2022 5:28 pm : link
In comment 15806046 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15806038 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.



The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.


He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.
RE: RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 5:32 pm : link
In comment 15806060 section125 said:
Quote:


He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.


"Well past his prime"?

You don't think he's still a top 8-10 QB in the NFL?
RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
Mike in NY : 9/7/2022 5:34 pm : link
In comment 15806054 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15806038 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.



I'm very bullish on the 2023 QB class. I think we can pick in the high teens, low 20s and still grab a QB with terrific physical attributes.

That's the strength of this class - arm talent/physical attributes.

I from the school of thought you can teach a player how to play QB, but you can't teach them how to throw a frozen rope on a dime, twenty yards down the field, while on the run. That's a huge plus in today's game. Hell, I would call it a pre-requisite.


I would say they also need to know how to read a defense. If you can't read it in college you aren't going to suddenly get it in the pros. You watch Josh Allen's college tape he was going through progressions, he just needed intensive QB boot camp on mechanics which he didn't get until Daboll.
Glad the Giants  
ChrisRick : 9/7/2022 5:36 pm : link
Investigated Wilson. This also goes against the notion that Schoen and Daboll had direct orders to play Jones this year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2022 5:59 pm : link
In comment 15806062 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15806060 section125 said:


Quote:




He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.



"Well past his prime"?

You don't think he's still a top 8-10 QB in the NFL?


Lol. It keeps getting ignored but I’m going to keep bringing it up - was he in decline before breaking his hand last year? On pace for 40 TDs (I’ll conservatively say 35) is a decline? I’ll take that.
RE: RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2022 6:01 pm : link
In comment 15806060 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15806046 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15806038 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.



The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.



He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.


"Well past his prime" seems a bridge too far to me.

I see dynamic running-Wilson a few notches down from his prime. But still the same good arm, touch, savvy QB play as ever...
RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
djm : 9/7/2022 6:07 pm : link
In comment 15806046 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15806038 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.



The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.


He’s also 34 not 38 as a typo indicated earlier.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/7/2022 6:49 pm : link
That MVP talk is interesting. It seems like Russ wanted (wants?) that hardware in the worst way.

I have no feeling on how Russ is going to age.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 9/7/2022 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15806132 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
That MVP talk is interesting. It seems like Russ wanted (wants?) that hardware in the worst way.

I have no feeling on how Russ is going to age.


That definitely stood out. It was as if Wilson was putting personal accomplishment over team. Surprised how important that was to him.
bw in dc.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/7/2022 7:03 pm : link
It came across like he was. One of the Seahawks officials was quoted-& this isn't verbatim-'What are we doing here? Winning an MVP for Russ or winning games?'

There's always been a strange Russ vibe. I remember the team taking a trip to like Hawaii to calm the waters because the defense thought Russ was the golden child & was immune from criticism from Carroll. & there's always been speculation that Russ threw that ball that Butler picked in the Pats-Hawks Super Bowl because the powers that be wanted Russ to be the MJ '98 jumper vs. Utah, not Lynch.
RE: RE: interesting for sure  
FStubbs : 9/7/2022 7:33 pm : link
In comment 15805929 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15805874 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


our roster certainly didn't help us but i'm pretty certain the money works if you want it to. My guess is this wasn't a one way road though, Schoen likely did his due diligence and removed the Giants from consideration at that trade package.



The heart of the package Seattle received from Denver was: two first round picks (2022 and 2023), two second rounders and Fant, Shelby and Lock. IMV, the most interesting part of those players was Fant/TE. I have always liked Lock's talent, but he's a real roll of the dice.

I have to imagine we could have gotten there with something similar with the picks and offer up a combination of players like Jones (similar to Lock) and/or SB (Carroll loves running the ball) and/or LW and/or Toney.

Yes, it didn't happen. I'm being rhetorical here, but I wonder if it was the ask by Seattle (comp), the hope of DJ working out, the 2023 QB class potential, etc.

Because if I'm Schoen, I'm thinking about all of those variables if I decide to pull out of further talks.


My guess is it didn't happen because Seattle's offer to the Giants was really simple: the #5 and #7 picks overall. Giants wouldn't go for it, so Seattle looked elsewhere.
RE: Because  
nochance : 9/7/2022 8:18 pm : link
In comment 15806042 AcidTest said:
Quote:
the Giants didn't pick up his fifth year option, he's a FA after this season. That means that Giants will either have to use the FT on him, which will be about $30M for a QB IIRC, or sign him to a long-term deal. He'd have to play unbelievable well to even justify the former, which is extremely unlikely.



Exactly! He will have to have a pro bowl caliber year to get resigned by the Giants. A just decent year and he is gone
Wilson  
stretch234 : 9/7/2022 8:25 pm : link
Funny how he looked shitty because his OL was awful and they could not run the ball. Funny what that does to QBs

I think he has a big year for Denver.

As for making a call - if what you have is not as good and there is even a small chance to upgrade the most important position you absolutely make a call
RE: RE: 34 year old quarterback .  
bradshaw44 : 9/7/2022 9:54 pm : link
In comment 15805886 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15805881 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Would he have made Giants contenders in next two seasons?

Not sure how I feel about the idea of him having been a Giant



Brady is 45. Rodgers is 38. Wilson is a better athlete than both of them.


Big difference. Wilson coming off a pretty important injury to his hand of all things. He’s taken more of a beating then Brady ever did. While Rogers is a similar style to Wilson with occasional running around, Rogers is a level above Wilson on the talent scale in my view. Add to that, the Giants talent deficiency all around means he wasn’t going to win us anything on his first contract with us. We would have had to most likely get to a second contract with him to make some noise. And by that time he would be more beat up, and unless we drafted perfectly for the first 3:4 years then we are F’d and that is two decades in a row for all intents and purposes.
Wilson is a great player  
Jerry in_DC : 9/7/2022 10:21 pm : link
But it was not the right move for the Giants at this time. Good to look into it - and a good sign that the FO recognizes the importance of a great QB. But we are far away from real contention.

Wilson maintaining this level for 5 years is possible, but close to a best case scenario. Much more likely that he declines a fair amount during that period. Given the lack of talent on the roster, it does not make sense to give up a haul for him.
I like Wilson as a player  
Rudy5757 : 9/8/2022 7:30 am : link
but wanted no part of him for the Giants. The cost of attaining him was too high. He is close to the end of his career and we had a roster full of holes and high draft capital. The timing wasnt right for the Giants. Next year a similar situation may be a good fit because we have cap space, a few more pieces in place and probably have a major need.

This year is feast or famine for DJ. I think with Good QB play we can be competitive. Lets see what he can do.
RE: I like Wilson as a player  
Producer : 9/8/2022 8:02 am : link
In comment 15806366 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
but wanted no part of him for the Giants. The cost of attaining him was too high. He is close to the end of his career and we had a roster full of holes and high draft capital. The timing wasnt right for the Giants. Next year a similar situation may be a good fit because we have cap space, a few more pieces in place and probably have a major need.

This year is feast or famine for DJ. I think with Good QB play we can be competitive. Lets see what he can do.


Jones is likely much closer to the end of his career than Russell Wilson.
RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in rebuild mode  
joeinpa : 9/8/2022 8:13 am : link
In comment 15806055 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 15805891 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15805887 Archer said:


Quote:


Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.



A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.



LOL - the skill position players on CIN are just slightly better than NYG...


I doubt that was a consensus before last season began. The Bengals are another example
of us not knowing a team is good until it is.

Back in 81, after years of losing, no one figured the jump that Giants team would make

In 2007, after 0-2, I was called out here because I wasn’t ready to give up on the season

Lots of turnover on offensive line, maybe a game changer in KT,

The consensus here is Giants will stink. I m wondering what the consensus was for the Bengals at the start of last season.

Maybe looking back on this season many will be surprised to learn there were more good players on this Giants team than they suspected
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
section125 : 9/8/2022 8:34 am : link
In comment 15806062 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15806060 section125 said:


Quote:




He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.



"Well past his prime"?

You don't think he's still a top 8-10 QB in the NFL?


The term "in his prime" is age related. 26-32 y/o is "in his prime." Brady is well past his prime as is Rodgers, but still VG QBs.

Is he 8-10? That is a different question.
Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Stafford(?), Wilson - yes he is still likely a top 10 QB
Joe  
Sean : 9/8/2022 8:35 am : link
You are making the point a lot of the Jones critics have made. I find it funny that posters are propping up the Bengals supporting cast. The Bengals! Maybe the one team that has actually had a WORSE o-line than NYG. The same Bengals team that was 2-14 in 2019. Come on.

I’m rooting for the Giants and I hope they win the division with Daboll proving to be a strong HC. But, Burrow is clearly a huge reason for the Bengals turnaround and overcoming a horrific OL. Not to mention a major knee injury as well.
RE: Joe  
Producer : 9/8/2022 8:55 am : link
In comment 15806384 Sean said:
Quote:
You are making the point a lot of the Jones critics have made. I find it funny that posters are propping up the Bengals supporting cast. The Bengals! Maybe the one team that has actually had a WORSE o-line than NYG. The same Bengals team that was 2-14 in 2019. Come on.

I’m rooting for the Giants and I hope they win the division with Daboll proving to be a strong HC. But, Burrow is clearly a huge reason for the Bengals turnaround and overcoming a horrific OL. Not to mention a major knee injury as well.


So true. The losing mentality among Giants fans is quite stunning. As if we haven't seen, over and over, that teams that acquire elite QBs, can't suddenly upgrade their supporting cast rapidly. Players want to play with elite QBs. Who remembers when Toney responded to Wilson/Giants rumors on Twitter with excitement. I think the players don't believe in Jones.
RE: RE: Joe  
Scooter185 : 9/8/2022 9:06 am : link
In comment 15806394 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15806384 Sean said:


Quote:


You are making the point a lot of the Jones critics have made. I find it funny that posters are propping up the Bengals supporting cast. The Bengals! Maybe the one team that has actually had a WORSE o-line than NYG. The same Bengals team that was 2-14 in 2019. Come on.

I’m rooting for the Giants and I hope they win the division with Daboll proving to be a strong HC. But, Burrow is clearly a huge reason for the Bengals turnaround and overcoming a horrific OL. Not to mention a major knee injury as well.



So true. The losing mentality among Giants fans is quite stunning. As if we haven't seen, over and over, that teams that acquire elite QBs, can't suddenly upgrade their supporting cast rapidly. Players want to play with elite QBs. Who remembers when Toney responded to Wilson/Giants rumors on Twitter with excitement. I think the players don't believe in Jones.


It wouldn't surprise me in the least if KG suddenly looked more interested with a different QB throwing to him
RE: RE: RE: Joe  
section125 : 9/8/2022 9:20 am : link
In comment 15806397 Scooter185 said:
Quote:



It wouldn't surprise me in the least if KG suddenly looked more interested with a different QB throwing to him


Perhaps Jones would throw to Golladay if he got the least bit open and held on to it when he did get thrown to?
Confirmation bias...  
Brown_Hornet : 9/8/2022 9:21 am : link
...has a thread of it's own.

Yes, players always vote for Captains  
Tom from LI : 9/8/2022 9:26 am : link
they don't believe in.. smh.

It's water under the bridge at this point. I am glad they made the call.. I am even happier with the fact they are building with youth.

The asking price was too steep from Seattle.
The contact is a problem with our current roster. That is why I said we are more than a QB away at this point.

Wilson would make this team marginally better, but not enough for the ROI. (Cap and Draft Picks)

Golladay is cooked. The fork sticking out of his back is obvious. It doesn't matter who is throwing him the ball. He doesn't want to be here. He got paid. Nobody else was offering him anything close. With Getts he was probably bidding against himself.

I doubt he ever returns to the player he was before he got here.

If DJ isn't the guy and I think he is damaged goods at this point, then get us in position to draft the guy. I can live with losing this year if the team plays better but just doesn't have the right talent at the right positions. I want to see the arrow pointing up... not taking out a shovel and digging the hole deeper.


You don't have to be a Jones homer  
JOrthman : 9/8/2022 9:45 am : link
or trash Wilson to believe this was not a smart move for the Giants to make.

You don't mortgage your future for a QB unless you are a QB away from the SB, see Rams, Tampa, Denver, etc... Those teams had lots of talent but were short a QB. We are/were not in that camp. Further, Wilson is good, but not so good he could make us that much better than he did with Seattle that had a lot of offensive talent.
Wilson  
Jerry in_DC : 9/8/2022 9:46 am : link
would make us very competitive in the division. Going from a scrub QB to a borderline elite QB is transformational. It takes us from a really bad team to an average or slightly above average team.

But we would still have way too many holes to compete at the top of the league. And by the time we fill those holes, there's a pretty good chance that Wilson is declining. The timing just doesn't work.
RE: RE: I like Wilson as a player  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2022 9:51 am : link
In comment 15806370 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15806366 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


but wanted no part of him for the Giants. The cost of attaining him was too high. He is close to the end of his career and we had a roster full of holes and high draft capital. The timing wasnt right for the Giants. Next year a similar situation may be a good fit because we have cap space, a few more pieces in place and probably have a major need.

This year is feast or famine for DJ. I think with Good QB play we can be competitive. Lets see what he can do.



Jones is likely much closer to the end of his career than Russell Wilson.


Haha, well done. As this posts sinks in with many somewhere between sad and possibly true...
Giants have a talent issue at QB and skill positions  
JonC : 9/8/2022 9:53 am : link
RW addresses the first part, but still so many holes on offense.
RE: Wilson  
UConn4523 : 9/8/2022 9:54 am : link
In comment 15806425 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
would make us very competitive in the division. Going from a scrub QB to a borderline elite QB is transformational. It takes us from a really bad team to an average or slightly above average team.

But we would still have way too many holes to compete at the top of the league. And by the time we fill those holes, there's a pretty good chance that Wilson is declining. The timing just doesn't work.


Year 1 might be rough but I like us at 8/9 wins in 2022 with Wilson (this might change a bit depending on which 1st we parted with, or both).

Year 2 being able to spend on the OL really leaves a ton of potential. I doubt he would sign up for this sort of trajectory but putting that aside I think we'd be contenders fairly soon (2023) since I'm assuming Schoen is good at his job, and that Daboll is a more creative mind than Carroll.
RE: RE: ..  
eli4life : 9/8/2022 9:56 am : link
In comment 15806003 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15805985 Sean said:


Quote:




Quote:


Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
The #Giants were reportedly one of the teams to call about trading for Russell Wilson. They didn’t pick up Daniel Jones 5th yr rookie option shortly after. They signed Tyrod to a two-year backup $ deal.
Tbh, I’m not sold on the fan narrative that this is a prove it year for DJ.





Huh? He thinks ones will be back in 2024 if he doesn't "prove it" this year?

I take it as he won’t be back no matter what he does
RE: Giants have a talent issue at QB and skill positions  
Producer : 9/8/2022 10:00 am : link
In comment 15806432 JonC said:
Quote:
RW addresses the first part, but still so many holes on offense.


Respectfully disagree. We have a health issue at the skill positions, for sure. But Barkley, Golladay, Shep, Toney is quality NFL receiving talent when they are available.
RE: RE: Giants have a talent issue at QB and skill positions  
JonC : 9/8/2022 10:02 am : link
In comment 15806441 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15806432 JonC said:


Quote:


RW addresses the first part, but still so many holes on offense.



Respectfully disagree. We have a health issue at the skill positions, for sure. But Barkley, Golladay, Shep, Toney is quality NFL receiving talent when they are available.


They can't stay healthy, and there's plenty of missing brain cells in that group. Disagree all you like, it doesn't make them smarter or healthier.

Wilson will be over the hill before the Giants fix their roster.
For sure, there are scenarios  
Jerry in_DC : 9/8/2022 10:03 am : link
where the Giants with Wilson would have been good in the next few years. It would require a lot of things to go well, but its certainly possible. But we would have given up at least one of our 1sts this year, so our talent base would be even lower than it is now.

Just the idea of setting up a window at this point doesn't make sense to me. We're saying we've got 3, maybe 4 years to go for it. Probably one of those years gets killed by injuries. And there Re a lot of bad things that can happen too. There are a lot of scenarios where we never even win a playoff game.
I'm definitely of the philosophy  
AcesUp : 9/8/2022 10:04 am : link
that you get the QB in place and figure the rest out. I'm also probably more bullish on Wilson than most as well, I distinctly remember people speculating about Brady and Rodgers' declines after down seasons when they were even older than Wilson is now. I would consider 5 seasons of high end QB play a more likely scenario than not with him. However, this situation was so F'd it may have been the exception to that rule. It would have been a thin bet given where we are in terms of the roster and more importantly cap situation. We would have been knee-capped on both sides of the roster-building equation for years. So I get not making an aggressive bid for him. I do think the people downplaying his ability are flat out wrong and his decline is being overstated though.
Eh, tough to build around a QB at 34, with a poor roster  
JonC : 9/8/2022 10:10 am : link
and he's showing some signs of his athleticism beginning to decline, when he relies so heavily on it to be effective.

Tough to predict how he will age too. Brady and Rodgers are outliers, among the GOAT to play the game. I was told here Eli would be the same while I pointed out he was already showing decline signs at 35, and he was toast shortly thereafter.

It's roll of the dice, and the comp to trade for and then pay him doesn't compute for me with the roster as is.
RE: Eh, tough to build around a QB at 34, with a poor roster  
Producer : 9/8/2022 10:20 am : link
In comment 15806454 JonC said:
Quote:
and he's showing some signs of his athleticism beginning to decline, when he relies so heavily on it to be effective.

Tough to predict how he will age too. Brady and Rodgers are outliers, among the GOAT to play the game. I was told here Eli would be the same while I pointed out he was already showing decline signs at 35, and he was toast shortly thereafter.

It's roll of the dice, and the comp to trade for and then pay him doesn't compute for me with the roster as is.


Take a look at Wilson's beginning to 2021 and pair it with how he finished. That shows elite production. In the middle he was playing through an ugly hand injury. His game today is more than just pure athleticism. I think he's a good bet to play at a high level to 40/42.
I think  
AcesUp : 9/8/2022 10:24 am : link
If the Giants were in a plus position in either area of young talent or cap room then it was an extremely viable option. The fact that the Giants not only had neither but were among the worst in the league in both areas took that off the table. Like if it was just a normal shit roster with loads of cap space or a good roster that had to maneuver a little to fit the QB, you jump at the move. We weren't even close to good cap health or young talent though.
The one parallel Wilson has with Eli  
AcesUp : 9/8/2022 10:29 am : link
Is playing a long time behind bad offensive lines. That could have a hand in expediting a decline. But with the rules the way they are now, I don't think it will be uncommon to see elites playing at a high level going into their late 30s going forward.
RE: I'm definitely of the philosophy  
JOrthman : 9/8/2022 10:33 am : link
In comment 15806448 AcesUp said:
Quote:
that you get the QB in place and figure the rest out. I'm also probably more bullish on Wilson than most as well, I distinctly remember people speculating about Brady and Rodgers' declines after down seasons when they were even older than Wilson is now. I would consider 5 seasons of high end QB play a more likely scenario than not with him. However, this situation was so F'd it may have been the exception to that rule. It would have been a thin bet given where we are in terms of the roster and more importantly cap situation. We would have been knee-capped on both sides of the roster-building equation for years. So I get not making an aggressive bid for him. I do think the people downplaying his ability are flat out wrong and his decline is being overstated though.


Yeah, but you can't use Brady and Rogers as your baseline. You're talking about two of the greatest and one the GOAT. They are the outliers and not the norm.
Roethlisberger, Brees and Rivers  
AcesUp : 9/8/2022 10:37 am : link
Played well into their late 30s. They obviously hit a wall in their respective last 1-2 seasons but all three were playing at a high level into their age 37-38 seasons.

The rules have changed, the technology and advancements in self care have changed. More money is involved so guys are taking care of themselves better. That window will extend, it's only logical.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants will most likely be selecting somewhere between 1st and 10th  
bw in dc : 9/8/2022 10:49 am : link
In comment 15806383 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15806062 bw in dc said:

"Well past his prime"?

You don't think he's still a top 8-10 QB in the NFL?



The term "in his prime" is age related. 26-32 y/o is "in his prime." Brady is well past his prime as is Rodgers, but still VG QBs.

Is he 8-10? That is a different question.
Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Stafford(?), Wilson - yes he is still likely a top 10 QB


I think the 26-32 age range needs to be revisited with the rules. Today's rules reduce the risk so much to play QB that you probably need to add 4+ years on the backend.

So, at 33 right now, Wilson very likely has another 3-4 years of his prime before him. He certainly hasn't lost any arm strength, and I'm going to assume he can still get yards with his wheels.
They were in decline but stayed at a higher enough level  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2022 10:49 am : link
because they were savvy, experienced winners at the position.

Wilson is one of those guys and expect the same as he moves through his 30s...
Russell Wilson at 33  
Producer : 9/8/2022 10:55 am : link
would be the most talented QB in NYG history.
RE: RE: Wilson  
bw in dc : 9/8/2022 10:57 am : link
In comment 15806434 UConn4523 said:
Quote:


Year 2 being able to spend on the OL really leaves a ton of potential. I doubt he would sign up for this sort of trajectory but putting that aside I think we'd be contenders fairly soon (2023) since I'm assuming Schoen is good at his job, and that Daboll is a more creative mind than Carroll.


And that's it in a nutshell. If Schoen is a quality GM, he should be able to find enough solutions to put us in the hunt in the entire NFC with the most difficult position solved for...
Interesting article bw  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/8/2022 11:40 am : link
Points out the value of the rookie contract and with very good drafting (Seattle was outstanding 2010-12) the team reaches the top. As things fall off (they usually do) the GM/FO/ HC QB plays out. Assign blame how you see fit.

In the end great run. 8 years not getting out of the division round and then a playoff miss. Self preservation playing out.

Two big points.
1. Wilson's style. Seattle is suggesting he needs that style (lacking pocket skills?) imv. That style (spin move) leads to a lot of success. I also believe the vicious shots Wilson takes (tough SOG) has a impact over the season and years add up. D guys building up speed over 10-15 yards and Wilson fully exposed making downfield throws. Ouch.

2. Brady/Wilson analogy. Yes, Brady saw the talent fall off in NE. He took a very feel deal and no DP comp.

Wilson gets what he wants (Money, better team) and Seattle goes back to what they reached the highest levels with. Rookie cost controlled QB. All will have to be better.

Glad JS called. If those '20-'22 drafts produce results JS might very well be in a very good situation next spring. Nail that one and perhaps everything comes together like it did in Seattle. TBD. I know what I would be doing.
The concern with Wilson  
Spiciest Memelord : 9/8/2022 12:04 pm : link
is once he loses his wheels, he's Baker Mayfield.
RE: Interesting article bw  
NINEster : 9/8/2022 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15806577 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Points out the value of the rookie contract and with very good drafting (Seattle was outstanding 2010-12) the team reaches the top. As things fall off (they usually do) the GM/FO/ HC QB plays out. Assign blame how you see fit.

In the end great run. 8 years not getting out of the division round and then a playoff miss. Self preservation playing out.

Two big points.
1. Wilson's style. Seattle is suggesting he needs that style (lacking pocket skills?) imv. That style (spin move) leads to a lot of success. I also believe the vicious shots Wilson takes (tough SOG) has a impact over the season and years add up. D guys building up speed over 10-15 yards and Wilson fully exposed making downfield throws. Ouch.

2. Brady/Wilson analogy. Yes, Brady saw the talent fall off in NE. He took a very feel deal and no DP comp.

Wilson gets what he wants (Money, better team) and Seattle goes back to what they reached the highest levels with. Rookie cost controlled QB. All will have to be better.

Glad JS called. If those '20-'22 drafts produce results JS might very well be in a very good situation next spring. Nail that one and perhaps everything comes together like it did in Seattle. TBD. I know what I would be doing.


Seattle drafted well 2010-2012 because Carroll was familiar with everybody in college football back then, having left USC right after the 2009 season. That's the best explanation for how the drafts went from dominant to subpar.

With hindsight, that team made real noise for 3 seasons having the best defense, a great running game, and a QB capable of being a game manager with explosive capability (and a rookie contract).

And despite him improving significantly since then, the results have been worse overall.

For Seattle to go back to a Super Bowl with Wilson they would need Derrick Henry and a top 5 defense, at a minimum. Denver would need to build something similar at the very least.

Assuming Wilson is as good as everybody says he is.......and IMO, postseason Wilson is a lower ranked QB than regular season one.

I don't think there's one single postseason game he played where he was the overwhelming reason they won.
RE: The concern with Wilson  
NINEster : 9/8/2022 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15806598 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
is once he loses his wheels, he's Baker Mayfield.


If he ever loses his deep ball, he would be lucky to be a backup.

Teams that can take away the deep ball and keep him in the pocket rarely ever struggle against him. Easier said than done, but if you are top 5 in the league at that, you will have great success against him.

Meanwhile, you can easily lose to Jimmy G or a bunch of other QBs with that exact same strength.

Such an anomaly Wilson is. Nobody ever listens, they like to think of him linearly like all the greats from Montana, Marino, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers. He's nothing like any of them, not even Steve Young.

^^^  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2022 1:22 pm : link

RE: ^^^  
NINEster : 9/8/2022 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15806664 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:



LOL!
RE: RE: The concern with Wilson  
bw in dc : 9/8/2022 3:14 pm : link
In comment 15806652 NINEster said:
Quote:


Such an anomaly Wilson is. Nobody ever listens, they like to think of him linearly like all the greats from Montana, Marino, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers. He's nothing like any of them, not even Steve Young.


Well, when you have a career 7.8 YPA, 3+:1 TD/INT ratio, career QBR of 66+, and a SB, it's not hard to figure out why Wilson gets included with great QBs. And he's done this over a career without a legit/bonafide #1 WR.

So, you may want to re-acquaint yourself with his career.
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