This is a very good article from ESPN how the relationship between Wilson and the Seattle FO deteriorated, and how he ultimately ended-up in Denver.
I was surprised to read how much winning the MVP was important to Wilson. Assuming that is true, there is a real selfishness about Wilson I didn't expect.
But I thought this was the most interesting nugget:
| The Seahawks received calls from the Broncos and several other teams, including the Saints, New York Giants and Washington Commanders. They knew Wilson wanted Denver, according to a front-office source, but kept New Orleans involved in the bidding so the Broncos would have to compete against another offer. |
I recall reading that we should be in the Wilson sweepstakes, but nothing that is this concrete and specific in the media.
Would absolutely love to know more details. Because if we actually made a call to inquire, my guess is Schoen did the math and was willing to figure out how to make it work with Wilson.
Maybe we really wanted to make it happen, but Wilson looked at the team and thought a championship caliber opportunity was too far away. So, he cut the Giants out...?
Wilson-Seattle relationship - (
New Window )
How would we possibly rebuild given our cap situation at the time plus the state of the team?
Sorry, I gotta throw the phone call into the due diligence file.
I'm sure there is a gray area where he can be "better" and they still move on but why does he have to be "outrageous"? Again, I'm not even a believer but if he shows "significant" progress and grasp of the offense it defies reason they would move on.
Martinez and Bradberry are already gone. Jones, Barkley, Golladay, Shepard, and Slayton likely will be after this season as well.
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I interpret that as him saying the decision has already been made that Jones is gone barring anything outrageous from a production standpoint.
I'm sure there is a gray area where he can be "better" and they still move on but why does he have to be "outrageous"? Again, I'm not even a believer but if he shows "significant" progress and grasp of the offense it defies reason they would move on.
Economics are a big part in addition to his evaluation versus whoever comes out next year.
The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.
I'm very bullish on the 2023 QB class. I think we can pick in the high teens, low 20s and still grab a QB with terrific physical attributes.
That's the strength of this class - arm talent/physical attributes.
I from the school of thought you can teach a player how to play QB, but you can't teach them how to throw a frozen rope on a dime, twenty yards down the field, while on the run. That's a huge plus in today's game. Hell, I would call it a pre-requisite.
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Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.
A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.
LOL - the skill position players on CIN are just slightly better than NYG...
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In comment 15805887 Archer said:
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Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.
A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.
LOL - the skill position players on CIN are just slightly better than NYG...
You can laugh in your cereal, pal. They weren't so much better when they earned the Burrow pick. And have you considered that one of the problems our skill players face is our QB?
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in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.
The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.
He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.
He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.
"Well past his prime"?
You don't think he's still a top 8-10 QB in the NFL?
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in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.
I'm very bullish on the 2023 QB class. I think we can pick in the high teens, low 20s and still grab a QB with terrific physical attributes.
That's the strength of this class - arm talent/physical attributes.
I from the school of thought you can teach a player how to play QB, but you can't teach them how to throw a frozen rope on a dime, twenty yards down the field, while on the run. That's a huge plus in today's game. Hell, I would call it a pre-requisite.
I would say they also need to know how to read a defense. If you can't read it in college you aren't going to suddenly get it in the pros. You watch Josh Allen's college tape he was going through progressions, he just needed intensive QB boot camp on mechanics which he didn't get until Daboll.
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He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.
"Well past his prime"?
You don't think he's still a top 8-10 QB in the NFL?
Lol. It keeps getting ignored but I’m going to keep bringing it up - was he in decline before breaking his hand last year? On pace for 40 TDs (I’ll conservatively say 35) is a decline? I’ll take that.
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In comment 15806038 GeofromNJ said:
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in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.
The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.
He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.
"Well past his prime" seems a bridge too far to me.
I see dynamic running-Wilson a few notches down from his prime. But still the same good arm, touch, savvy QB play as ever...
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in 2023 and possibly in 2024. Schoen should be able to find an elite QB in one of those years. Makes no sense to trade all your assets for a stopgap QB.
The fallacy is that Wilson is a stopgap QB. He's not. He's a HOF QB still in his prime.
He’s also 34 not 38 as a typo indicated earlier.
I have no feeling on how Russ is going to age.
I have no feeling on how Russ is going to age.
That definitely stood out. It was as if Wilson was putting personal accomplishment over team. Surprised how important that was to him.
There's always been a strange Russ vibe. I remember the team taking a trip to like Hawaii to calm the waters because the defense thought Russ was the golden child & was immune from criticism from Carroll. & there's always been speculation that Russ threw that ball that Butler picked in the Pats-Hawks Super Bowl because the powers that be wanted Russ to be the MJ '98 jumper vs. Utah, not Lynch.
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our roster certainly didn't help us but i'm pretty certain the money works if you want it to. My guess is this wasn't a one way road though, Schoen likely did his due diligence and removed the Giants from consideration at that trade package.
The heart of the package Seattle received from Denver was: two first round picks (2022 and 2023), two second rounders and Fant, Shelby and Lock. IMV, the most interesting part of those players was Fant/TE. I have always liked Lock's talent, but he's a real roll of the dice.
I have to imagine we could have gotten there with something similar with the picks and offer up a combination of players like Jones (similar to Lock) and/or SB (Carroll loves running the ball) and/or LW and/or Toney.
Yes, it didn't happen. I'm being rhetorical here, but I wonder if it was the ask by Seattle (comp), the hope of DJ working out, the 2023 QB class potential, etc.
Because if I'm Schoen, I'm thinking about all of those variables if I decide to pull out of further talks.
My guess is it didn't happen because Seattle's offer to the Giants was really simple: the #5 and #7 picks overall. Giants wouldn't go for it, so Seattle looked elsewhere.
Exactly! He will have to have a pro bowl caliber year to get resigned by the Giants. A just decent year and he is gone
I think he has a big year for Denver.
As for making a call - if what you have is not as good and there is even a small chance to upgrade the most important position you absolutely make a call
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Would he have made Giants contenders in next two seasons?
Not sure how I feel about the idea of him having been a Giant
Brady is 45. Rodgers is 38. Wilson is a better athlete than both of them.
Big difference. Wilson coming off a pretty important injury to his hand of all things. He’s taken more of a beating then Brady ever did. While Rogers is a similar style to Wilson with occasional running around, Rogers is a level above Wilson on the talent scale in my view. Add to that, the Giants talent deficiency all around means he wasn’t going to win us anything on his first contract with us. We would have had to most likely get to a second contract with him to make some noise. And by that time he would be more beat up, and unless we drafted perfectly for the first 3:4 years then we are F’d and that is two decades in a row for all intents and purposes.
Wilson maintaining this level for 5 years is possible, but close to a best case scenario. Much more likely that he declines a fair amount during that period. Given the lack of talent on the roster, it does not make sense to give up a haul for him.
This year is feast or famine for DJ. I think with Good QB play we can be competitive. Lets see what he can do.
This year is feast or famine for DJ. I think with Good QB play we can be competitive. Lets see what he can do.
Jones is likely much closer to the end of his career than Russell Wilson.
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In comment 15805887 Archer said:
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Wilson made no sense for the Giants
I hope he has success in Denver it is a much better situation for him.
A QB like Wilson turns a 5 ye rebuild to a 2 yr rebuild. Exhibit A - The Bengals.
LOL - the skill position players on CIN are just slightly better than NYG...
I doubt that was a consensus before last season began. The Bengals are another example
of us not knowing a team is good until it is.
Back in 81, after years of losing, no one figured the jump that Giants team would make
In 2007, after 0-2, I was called out here because I wasn’t ready to give up on the season
Lots of turnover on offensive line, maybe a game changer in KT,
The consensus here is Giants will stink. I m wondering what the consensus was for the Bengals at the start of last season.
Maybe looking back on this season many will be surprised to learn there were more good players on this Giants team than they suspected
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He is a HoF QB on the decline - he is well past his prime. Still a good QB, but not in his prime.
"Well past his prime"?
You don't think he's still a top 8-10 QB in the NFL?
The term "in his prime" is age related. 26-32 y/o is "in his prime." Brady is well past his prime as is Rodgers, but still VG QBs.
Is he 8-10? That is a different question.
Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Stafford(?), Wilson - yes he is still likely a top 10 QB
I’m rooting for the Giants and I hope they win the division with Daboll proving to be a strong HC. But, Burrow is clearly a huge reason for the Bengals turnaround and overcoming a horrific OL. Not to mention a major knee injury as well.
I’m rooting for the Giants and I hope they win the division with Daboll proving to be a strong HC. But, Burrow is clearly a huge reason for the Bengals turnaround and overcoming a horrific OL. Not to mention a major knee injury as well.
So true. The losing mentality among Giants fans is quite stunning. As if we haven't seen, over and over, that teams that acquire elite QBs, can't suddenly upgrade their supporting cast rapidly. Players want to play with elite QBs. Who remembers when Toney responded to Wilson/Giants rumors on Twitter with excitement. I think the players don't believe in Jones.
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You are making the point a lot of the Jones critics have made. I find it funny that posters are propping up the Bengals supporting cast. The Bengals! Maybe the one team that has actually had a WORSE o-line than NYG. The same Bengals team that was 2-14 in 2019. Come on.
I’m rooting for the Giants and I hope they win the division with Daboll proving to be a strong HC. But, Burrow is clearly a huge reason for the Bengals turnaround and overcoming a horrific OL. Not to mention a major knee injury as well.
So true. The losing mentality among Giants fans is quite stunning. As if we haven't seen, over and over, that teams that acquire elite QBs, can't suddenly upgrade their supporting cast rapidly. Players want to play with elite QBs. Who remembers when Toney responded to Wilson/Giants rumors on Twitter with excitement. I think the players don't believe in Jones.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if KG suddenly looked more interested with a different QB throwing to him
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if KG suddenly looked more interested with a different QB throwing to him
Perhaps Jones would throw to Golladay if he got the least bit open and held on to it when he did get thrown to?
It's water under the bridge at this point. I am glad they made the call.. I am even happier with the fact they are building with youth.
The asking price was too steep from Seattle.
The contact is a problem with our current roster. That is why I said we are more than a QB away at this point.
Wilson would make this team marginally better, but not enough for the ROI. (Cap and Draft Picks)
Golladay is cooked. The fork sticking out of his back is obvious. It doesn't matter who is throwing him the ball. He doesn't want to be here. He got paid. Nobody else was offering him anything close. With Getts he was probably bidding against himself.
I doubt he ever returns to the player he was before he got here.
If DJ isn't the guy and I think he is damaged goods at this point, then get us in position to draft the guy. I can live with losing this year if the team plays better but just doesn't have the right talent at the right positions. I want to see the arrow pointing up... not taking out a shovel and digging the hole deeper.
You don't mortgage your future for a QB unless you are a QB away from the SB, see Rams, Tampa, Denver, etc... Those teams had lots of talent but were short a QB. We are/were not in that camp. Further, Wilson is good, but not so good he could make us that much better than he did with Seattle that had a lot of offensive talent.
But we would still have way too many holes to compete at the top of the league. And by the time we fill those holes, there's a pretty good chance that Wilson is declining. The timing just doesn't work.
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but wanted no part of him for the Giants. The cost of attaining him was too high. He is close to the end of his career and we had a roster full of holes and high draft capital. The timing wasnt right for the Giants. Next year a similar situation may be a good fit because we have cap space, a few more pieces in place and probably have a major need.
This year is feast or famine for DJ. I think with Good QB play we can be competitive. Lets see what he can do.
Jones is likely much closer to the end of his career than Russell Wilson.
Haha, well done. As this posts sinks in with many somewhere between sad and possibly true...
But we would still have way too many holes to compete at the top of the league. And by the time we fill those holes, there's a pretty good chance that Wilson is declining. The timing just doesn't work.
Year 1 might be rough but I like us at 8/9 wins in 2022 with Wilson (this might change a bit depending on which 1st we parted with, or both).
Year 2 being able to spend on the OL really leaves a ton of potential. I doubt he would sign up for this sort of trajectory but putting that aside I think we'd be contenders fairly soon (2023) since I'm assuming Schoen is good at his job, and that Daboll is a more creative mind than Carroll.
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Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
The #Giants were reportedly one of the teams to call about trading for Russell Wilson. They didn’t pick up Daniel Jones 5th yr rookie option shortly after. They signed Tyrod to a two-year backup $ deal.
Tbh, I’m not sold on the fan narrative that this is a prove it year for DJ.
Huh? He thinks ones will be back in 2024 if he doesn't "prove it" this year?
I take it as he won’t be back no matter what he does
Respectfully disagree. We have a health issue at the skill positions, for sure. But Barkley, Golladay, Shep, Toney is quality NFL receiving talent when they are available.
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RW addresses the first part, but still so many holes on offense.
Respectfully disagree. We have a health issue at the skill positions, for sure. But Barkley, Golladay, Shep, Toney is quality NFL receiving talent when they are available.
They can't stay healthy, and there's plenty of missing brain cells in that group. Disagree all you like, it doesn't make them smarter or healthier.
Wilson will be over the hill before the Giants fix their roster.
Just the idea of setting up a window at this point doesn't make sense to me. We're saying we've got 3, maybe 4 years to go for it. Probably one of those years gets killed by injuries. And there Re a lot of bad things that can happen too. There are a lot of scenarios where we never even win a playoff game.
Tough to predict how he will age too. Brady and Rodgers are outliers, among the GOAT to play the game. I was told here Eli would be the same while I pointed out he was already showing decline signs at 35, and he was toast shortly thereafter.
It's roll of the dice, and the comp to trade for and then pay him doesn't compute for me with the roster as is.
Tough to predict how he will age too. Brady and Rodgers are outliers, among the GOAT to play the game. I was told here Eli would be the same while I pointed out he was already showing decline signs at 35, and he was toast shortly thereafter.
It's roll of the dice, and the comp to trade for and then pay him doesn't compute for me with the roster as is.
Take a look at Wilson's beginning to 2021 and pair it with how he finished. That shows elite production. In the middle he was playing through an ugly hand injury. His game today is more than just pure athleticism. I think he's a good bet to play at a high level to 40/42.