Even though he was the most pressured QB on the day according to Next Gen stats:
"Daniel Jones has been pressured on 73.3% of his dropbacks in the first half (11 QBP on 15 dropbacks), the 2nd-highest rate in a single half over the last three seasons among quarterbacks with 10+ dropbacks."
Even though he played at Tenn, his QBR was only bested by Mahomes, Herbert, and Cousins. Its important to give Jones credit when its due, because we all know he gets the opposite even when its not
NextGenStats - (
New Window )
Jones had a lot of help too, that was even better to see.
- The 6th highest TD %
- The 6th highest AY/A
All while having the highest Sack %
The INT was boneheaded, but DJ did his job yesterday.
I think it's going to be much like his rookie year. Going to be a little rough around the edges first 4 games or so and then it will open up.
(1) Too many turnovers
(2) Missed open WR's
(3) In trying to not lock onto one target I think there were times when he got off someone too quick and went to the check down, but a bigger play was there to be made if he trusted his WR
oh, yeah...
(1) Too many turnovers
(2) Missed open WR's
(3) In trying to not lock onto one target I think there were times when he got off someone too quick and went to the check down, but a bigger play was there to be made if he trusted his WR
Yep, there were many examples of lost plays if you chart out the game, which Daboll certainly will.
If he has a repeat performance for the remainder of the season, you're looking at
- 3,400 yards passing
- 450 yards rushing
- 34 TDs
- 81% completion percentage
- NFL Comeback Player of the Year and possible Pro Bowl.
Link - ( New Window )
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
Given the fact that pass protection was abysmal throughout the first half and for a significant portion of the second, DJ held up remarkably well. His QBR is low (not 4th best) thanks to the sacks, but his Passer Rating is quite high.
I'm not sold on him being the answer in 2023 and beyond, but yesterday was a good day for Daniel Jones.
Checkdown Charlie.
One big play, one hideous turnover in the end zone. Irrelevant with his feet. Once again, put the ball on the ground for another ugly turnover.
He's not good enough.
Given the fact that pass protection was abysmal throughout the first half and for a significant portion of the second, DJ held up remarkably well. His QBR is low (not 4th best) thanks to the sacks, but his Passer Rating is quite high.
I'm not sold on him being the answer in 2023 and beyond, but yesterday was a good day for Daniel Jones.
Yes, sorry, should have wrote passer rating. Still a good stat line for him.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
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In QBR is sliding a yard short of the first down twice, missed receivers, poor keeps on read option.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
missed receivers? The ball only hit the ground 4 times. .... while under constant pressure.
That doesn’t mean there weren’t open receivers elsewhere where he checked it down. There were. You guys keep box score scouting with Jones and it’s maddening.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
He also came back from that awful 1st half and bad INT and led a GW TD drive in the final minutes
Lets see if the PTSD from the previous coaching regimes wears off during the season
His QB rating was 4th….
His QBR was 25th
While there is no perfect formula for defining QB play, QBR is significantly for indicative than QB rating.
Either way, it is clear that this wasn’t a “terrible game” nor a “great game” by Jones. Some good, some bad. One great play (arguable the throw to Shep) and one horrific play. There was nothing Jones did to say “we don’t need to look for an upgrade at the position.”
The defense was playing lights out and Jones kept the team in the game and made a few big throws.
Still far from where he needs to be but against one of the best defenses we'll face all year I'll take.
Looking forward to seeing him when he gets some time to throw. I think we might stomp on Carolina this week.
He could have either ran it or just threw it to the wide open WR for an easy first down. Instead, he hesitated and didnt know what to do and eventually got sacked.
Those are the missed plays people are talking about. It goes down as a sack and the OL gets blamed, but there was a play to have there. This happens way, way too much when he is QBing.
he isn't and never will be elite or worthy of his draft slot.
i think everyone needs to stop thinking of him in those terms and watch him for what he is - a middling QB (not the worst as several here would like for you to believe) who when given time and assistance, can win you some games... but who will also mess up plenty week to week.
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In QBR is sliding a yard short of the first down twice, missed receivers, poor keeps on read option.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
He also came back from that awful 1st half and bad INT and led a GW TD drive in the final minutes
Lets see if the PTSD from the previous coaching regimes wears off during the season
I’d say Saqoun led the game winning drive. Jones had three passing attempts for 11 yards. Until the play on the 1 they ran the ball 8 straight times. They clearly didn’t want to put the ball in his hands until they could minimize the risk.
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In comment 15813067 ajr2456 said:
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In QBR is sliding a yard short of the first down twice, missed receivers, poor keeps on read option.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
missed receivers? The ball only hit the ground 4 times. .... while under constant pressure.
That doesn’t mean there weren’t open receivers elsewhere where he checked it down. There were. You guys keep box score scouting with Jones and it’s maddening.
As maddening as the 8,000th thread saying DJ sucks? Okay.
If he is surrounded by a very good running game and a defense that gets him the ball back when he screws up, then he can be OK as a caretaker. As an actual starting QB who drives prodctive offense, he falls way short
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In comment 15813067 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In QBR is sliding a yard short of the first down twice, missed receivers, poor keeps on read option.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
missed receivers? The ball only hit the ground 4 times. .... while under constant pressure.
That doesn’t mean there weren’t open receivers elsewhere where he checked it down. There were. You guys keep box score scouting with Jones and it’s maddening.
This line of argument I don't like. Its basically set up to say that DJ stinks no matter what his stats/results are, because he missed some mythical bigger plays. We don't know this at all for certain. We don't know what his progression was, we don't know what Daboll is asking him to do on a play, we don't know what kind of risks Daboll wants him to take, hell we don't really know if the other WR's are open because all we are doing is watching a tape in slo-motion. Thing are different in a real game.
All QBs make decisions based on reads and assignments, and frankly we don't know enough to make a statement on what was the right one, especially when he completed the one he chose.
I feel this way too.
Even when he falls - it looks awkward and weird.
It's like watching Engram trying to catch a football - it just doesn't look natural.
Yesterday was a great win and I’m not going to dwell on Jones, but for this team to be a legit NFC contender, the QB position needs to be much better.
Come on man!! I just posted this situation!
Stealing my thunder I see... haha
The issue is he turned the ball over twice, including a pick in the end zone of a one score game in the 4th quarter. Two turnovers is too many, especially when the game plan was riding Saquon.
We can nitpick at stats all day, and trust me, I’ve been a huge supporter of wanting Jones to be more than he’s been. But this is who he is, and we’ll have to live with it for the rest of this season before the new regime can find the next QB.
To me what is maddening with Jones is he doesnt trust himself to take chances, thats what drives me nuts..
There is a difference between throwing the Int he did yesterday and throwing an int when your trying to take a chance, give me the QB thats going to trust his arm because more times than not you are going to succeed..
The run blocking was smooth though and that's what was working even when Brieda was in.
The problems were: he seemed awkward and slow on running plays, and he struggled a lot with any kind of dirty pocket. It's the throws he didn't attempt in those plays that stand out. In particular, on one 3rd and short in the 2nd half - after the Titans had gone up 20-13 - he missed about three open guys at the sticks in the middle of the field and took off toward the sideline. He was sacked from behind.
With this version of Daniel Jones and the Giants O, it's not hard to imagine 8 or 9 wins with the schedule. You get one Saquan TD drive, another Jones bomb TD, and another TD from Jones dink-and-dunks and runs and that adds up to 21-24 points and some tight victories. That's the ceiling, however, because there needs to more playmaking in the intermediate part of the field from Jones. Maybe if the protection improves, we'll see it, but I'm still skeptical.
Checkdown Charlie.
One big play, one hideous turnover in the end zone. Irrelevant with his feet. Once again, put the ball on the ground for another ugly turnover.
He's not good enough.
Jones did not play great yesterday but the fumble was not ugly. There is not a QB in the league that holds on to that ball.
The interception, now that was ugly.
it was his first game with his 4th OC and 3rd HC so im hoping he looks a little more natural as time goes on. Making the slide / don't slide decision has always been awkward for him.
i agree that the word robotic fits his game but there's both good and bad in that - and the good side of it is that he robotically puts almost every pass where it's supposed to go. combined with his ability to get a few first downs with his legs that's a really solid tannehilly floor to start from and i think we saw that yesterday. hopefully there's upside as he gets more comfortable in the system and with the receivers.
i actually didn't think he played particularly great yesterday, i think his washington, carolina, and new orleans games were all better last year, but for the life of me i dont know how anyone could look at that as a negative thing since he was able to put up solid numbers and lead a game winning drive on the road against last year's top seed in the AFC despite not playing his best (and making perhaps his single worst decision as a pro on the int). what we saw yesterday is with a more modern offense there's more margin for error because you aren't wasting so many first downs.
He could have either ran it or just threw it to the wide open WR for an easy first down. Instead, he hesitated and didnt know what to do and eventually got sacked.
Those are the missed plays people are talking about. It goes down as a sack and the OL gets blamed, but there was a play to have there. This happens way, way too much when he is QBing.
If this is the play I'm thinking off (the series after the Titans made it 20-13), that was maddening. There were three players open at the sticks the moment he took off toward the sideline.
I’d say Saqoun led the game winning drive. Jones had three passing attempts for 11 yards. Until the play on the 1 they ran the ball 8 straight times. They clearly didn’t want to put the ball in his hands until they could minimize the risk.
It was VERY obvious that Daboll/Kafka were not going to let Jones screw up that drive. Christ, they were more willing to let Toney throw a pass down there than Jones.
The thing that worries me the most about yesterday's game ... and my son and I said it several times ... Daniel Jones is going to get killed (eventually) having QB run plays called for him that much.
I get it if he tuck and goes. But that number of running plays ... oy. Makes me very nervous.
My son even said, do you think they're maybe trying to get him hurt? Then go with Taylor and HAVE to draft a QB?
Ha!
Again, great win though.
The thing that worries me the most about yesterday's game ... and my son and I said it several times ... Daniel Jones is going to get killed (eventually) having QB run plays called for him that much.
I get it if he tuck and goes. But that number of running plays ... oy. Makes me very nervous.
My son even said, do you think they're maybe trying to get him hurt? Then go with Taylor and HAVE to draft a QB?
Ha!
He goes head first way, way too much.
This obsession with the "haters" is absurd.
The "haters" are just Giants fans who see DJ as an impediment to consistent, sustained success. They're rooting for the same thing (presumably) that you are: for the Giants to be championship contenders. They just don't see DJ being the QB that brings the team to that level.
So are they actually "haters"? Or are the DJFC the ones who put a single player above the success of the team? Because we all know the team has sucked for the past several years, and has never been good at all during DJ's career. The DJFC will openly advocate for replacing any number of players who surround DJ without giving any responsibility for the team's shortcomings to DJ himself. Where's your loyalty to those other players? Where's the curiosity about whether DJ is holding THEM back instead of the other way around?
The "haters" don't hate DJ. They just care about the Giants more than any individual player. It's the DJFC that actually has their priorities out of whack.
In short...a usual DJ performance.
There weren't three guys at the sticks, but nevertheless he had a couple of good options here and space to move in the pocket. He's gotta keep his head up.
Bottom line it is a team game and the Giants won. The QB played well enough to allow the Giants to win the game against what we think is a superior opponent on the road.
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If he has more games like yesterday, I hope we would move on after the season.
If he has a repeat performance for the remainder of the season, you're looking at
- 3,400 yards passing
- 450 yards rushing
- 34 TDs
- 81% completion percentage
- NFL Comeback Player of the Year and possible Pro Bowl.
And he's not going to be playing against a defense as tough as the Titans D in their loud home stadium every week.
There weren't three guys at the sticks, but nevertheless he had a couple of good options here and space to move in the pocket. He's gotta keep his head up.
As an aside, what a nicely designed play. There's a couple of Titan DBs stuck in no-mans-land trying to play either the middle or the flat.
Jones was getting killed and had happy feet on this play. The Giants are starting two rookies on the OL. We are probably going to see this happen quite a bit. This is the biggest issues in Jones' game.
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If he has more games like yesterday, I hope we would move on after the season.
If he has a repeat performance for the remainder of the season, you're looking at
- 3,400 yards passing
- 450 yards rushing
- 34 TDs
- 81% completion percentage
- NFL Comeback Player of the Year and possible Pro Bowl.
This is where it becomes clear that many fans don't pay enough attention to the rest of the league, so they lack context.
If DJ's final 2022 stats look like that, it will be a remarkable step forward for him (especially since you're extrapolating over a full 17 game season and he's never played a full season), but it wouldn't be an especially great season for an NFL QB in 2022.
3400 passing yards would have been good for 20th in the league in 2021, behind Taylor Heinicke.
34 passing TDs would have been good for 9th.
450 rushing yards would have been good for 6th or 7th among QBs (if we're giving DJ 17 games, we should do the same for all other QBs in this exercise, so Jackson, Murray, Wilson would all leap ahead of DJ).
Total yards from scrimmage for DJ would be under 4,000. That would still land firmly in the bottom third of the league.
If we're extrapolating the good, let's also keep the bad - it would also include 17 INTs and 17 fumbles lost. 34 turnovers would be terrible - it would be 50% higher than the most turnover-prone QB performance in 2021 (Trevor Lawrence led the league with 22 turnovers last year).
It would be a huge step forward. Enormous progress. Probably not a Pro Bowl season, barring injury attrition among NFC QBs. But it does point out just how far down DJ's play has been, that such a gigantic leap forward in his level of play would still only get him to the middle of the pack.
There weren't three guys at the sticks, but nevertheless he had a couple of good options here and space to move in the pocket. He's gotta keep his head up.
That was a terrible play, a winning QB makes that play 95% of the time. Jones just did not think fast enough on that one.
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In comment 15813015 Mike in NY said:
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If he has more games like yesterday, I hope we would move on after the season.
If he has a repeat performance for the remainder of the season, you're looking at
- 3,400 yards passing
- 450 yards rushing
- 34 TDs
- 81% completion percentage
- NFL Comeback Player of the Year and possible Pro Bowl.
This is where it becomes clear that many fans don't pay enough attention to the rest of the league, so they lack context.
If DJ's final 2022 stats look like that, it will be a remarkable step forward for him (especially since you're extrapolating over a full 17 game season and he's never played a full season), but it wouldn't be an especially great season for an NFL QB in 2022.
3400 passing yards would have been good for 20th in the league in 2021, behind Taylor Heinicke.
34 passing TDs would have been good for 9th.
450 rushing yards would have been good for 6th or 7th among QBs (if we're giving DJ 17 games, we should do the same for all other QBs in this exercise, so Jackson, Murray, Wilson would all leap ahead of DJ).
Total yards from scrimmage for DJ would be under 4,000. That would still land firmly in the bottom third of the league.
If we're extrapolating the good, let's also keep the bad - it would also include 17 INTs and 17 fumbles lost. 34 turnovers would be terrible - it would be 50% higher than the most turnover-prone QB performance in 2021 (Trevor Lawrence led the league with 22 turnovers last year).
It would be a huge step forward. Enormous progress. Probably not a Pro Bowl season, barring injury attrition among NFC QBs. But it does point out just how far down DJ's play has been, that such a gigantic leap forward in his level of play would still only get him to the middle of the pack.
come on, it would be a few hundred yards off a typical Russell Wilson season. in 2 of his last 4 seasons he's averaged only 220 yards per game.
imo the takeaway from yesterday's game is that jones played pretty middle of the road even for him, and yet he still won a game in the 4th Q on the road against a solid opponent and the offense was more functional so he was able to do so while putting up stats that prorated out would be a season all of us would sign for in blood right now.
i dont think anyone has made the argument that yesterday's play deserves an extension (even if it continues for a full year) but it was a step in the right direction and if he continues playing like that he will probably get tagged. it was a very Tannehill-esque performance which isn't a bad floor. hopefully there's more ceiling to come.
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he was pretty terrible yesterday, and i'll stand by it.
Checkdown Charlie.
One big play, one hideous turnover in the end zone. Irrelevant with his feet. Once again, put the ball on the ground for another ugly turnover.
He's not good enough.
Jones did not play great yesterday but the fumble was not ugly. There is not a QB in the league that holds on to that ball.
The interception, now that was ugly.
There are several QBs in the league that are not still in their windup when the defender gets to them on that fumble. DJ takes too long to process and doesn't seem to have the sort of instincts that allow him to react to the game without having to process it in the first place.
I'll keep beating this drum - DJ gets pressured a lot, but not all of it is because of the OL. Many of the elite QBs have average pocket time of around 2.3-2.4 seconds, and then they get the ball out. In 2021, DJ's average pocket time was 2.5 seconds. So if he's getting more time in the pocket than it takes Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Herbert, etc. to get the ball out, is it really the OL's fault? Or are they being asked to block a split second longer than other OLs are because DJ takes longer to throw than other QBs take?
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In comment 15813015 Mike in NY said:
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If he has more games like yesterday, I hope we would move on after the season.
If he has a repeat performance for the remainder of the season, you're looking at
- 3,400 yards passing
- 450 yards rushing
- 34 TDs
- 81% completion percentage
- NFL Comeback Player of the Year and possible Pro Bowl.
This is where it becomes clear that many fans don't pay enough attention to the rest of the league, so they lack context.
If DJ's final 2022 stats look like that, it will be a remarkable step forward for him (especially since you're extrapolating over a full 17 game season and he's never played a full season), but it wouldn't be an especially great season for an NFL QB in 2022.
3400 passing yards would have been good for 20th in the league in 2021, behind Taylor Heinicke.
34 passing TDs would have been good for 9th.
450 rushing yards would have been good for 6th or 7th among QBs (if we're giving DJ 17 games, we should do the same for all other QBs in this exercise, so Jackson, Murray, Wilson would all leap ahead of DJ).
Total yards from scrimmage for DJ would be under 4,000. That would still land firmly in the bottom third of the league.
If we're extrapolating the good, let's also keep the bad - it would also include 17 INTs and 17 fumbles lost. 34 turnovers would be terrible - it would be 50% higher than the most turnover-prone QB performance in 2021 (Trevor Lawrence led the league with 22 turnovers last year).
It would be a huge step forward. Enormous progress. Probably not a Pro Bowl season, barring injury attrition among NFC QBs. But it does point out just how far down DJ's play has been, that such a gigantic leap forward in his level of play would still only get him to the middle of the pack.
Good post. I've made this point before on one of the "guess Jones stats" posts to the people who optimistically guess 3500 yards. In today's NFL, in a 17 game season that is not going to cut it for a guy you want to lead you to a Super Bowl someday and we have to make that decision at the end of this season.
1. He was pretty limited in terms of the game plan. Wasn't really in a position to light the field on fire or embarrass himself. This is evident in both his lack of incompletions and lack of total yards.
2. The running game took over, so there was no reason to move away from it.
3. Game 1 in a new offense (again). There's going to be a feeling-out process and he'll likely be on the reserved side for another week or two.
The INT is pretty concerning to me. Another poster made a good point on another thread. You only throw a back-shoulder pass when the DB isn't facing you. You're not going to trick anyone when the defender can see what you're doing. That's not just a poor decision, i.e., trying to force a ball into double coverage. That's a football IQ thing and I worry it still hasn't developed... and relatively speaking to most, I'm a pretty big Jones defender.
But like I said, it was a tough game to get a read on him. Some troubling throws. Some positive signs. I do think the team will improve as a whole as everyone gets more comfortable. For me, I'm just so focused and happy with our defensive performance without our two best pass rushers. Did NOT see that coming.
Rodgers and Brady and a few others that were and are so efficient are rare. Eli made a ton of mistakes but would win the game, in his prime, more often than not. That's really all that matters.
Jones can play better and needs to. But he was good enough yesterday in tough conditions.
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Don't let the haters see this.
This obsession with the "haters" is absurd.
The "haters" are just Giants fans who see DJ as an impediment to consistent, sustained success. They're rooting for the same thing (presumably) that you are: for the Giants to be championship contenders. They just don't see DJ being the QB that brings the team to that level.
So are they actually "haters"? Or are the DJFC the ones who put a single player above the success of the team? Because we all know the team has sucked for the past several years, and has never been good at all during DJ's career. The DJFC will openly advocate for replacing any number of players who surround DJ without giving any responsibility for the team's shortcomings to DJ himself. Where's your loyalty to those other players? Where's the curiosity about whether DJ is holding THEM back instead of the other way around?
The "haters" don't hate DJ. They just care about the Giants more than any individual player. It's the DJFC that actually has their priorities out of whack.
This is such a great post and so well said. Exactly how I feel.
Rodgers and Brady and a few others that were and are so efficient are rare. Eli made a ton of mistakes but would win the game, in his prime, more often than not. That's really all that matters.
Jones can play better and needs to. But he was good enough yesterday in tough conditions.
Scoring 21 points took Saqoun putting him college football type numbers though. Can he put up 21 points if Saqoun doesn’t have multiple 30+ yard runs, while limiting the back breaking mistakes? Previous history says no.
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In comment 15813015 Mike in NY said:
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If he has more games like yesterday, I hope we would move on after the season.
If he has a repeat performance for the remainder of the season, you're looking at
- 3,400 yards passing
- 450 yards rushing
- 34 TDs
- 81% completion percentage
- NFL Comeback Player of the Year and possible Pro Bowl.
This is where it becomes clear that many fans don't pay enough attention to the rest of the league, so they lack context.
If DJ's final 2022 stats look like that, it will be a remarkable step forward for him (especially since you're extrapolating over a full 17 game season and he's never played a full season), but it wouldn't be an especially great season for an NFL QB in 2022.
3400 passing yards would have been good for 20th in the league in 2021, behind Taylor Heinicke.
34 passing TDs would have been good for 9th.
450 rushing yards would have been good for 6th or 7th among QBs (if we're giving DJ 17 games, we should do the same for all other QBs in this exercise, so Jackson, Murray, Wilson would all leap ahead of DJ).
Total yards from scrimmage for DJ would be under 4,000. That would still land firmly in the bottom third of the league.
If we're extrapolating the good, let's also keep the bad - it would also include 17 INTs and 17 fumbles lost. 34 turnovers would be terrible - it would be 50% higher than the most turnover-prone QB performance in 2021 (Trevor Lawrence led the league with 22 turnovers last year).
It would be a huge step forward. Enormous progress. Probably not a Pro Bowl season, barring injury attrition among NFC QBs. But it does point out just how far down DJ's play has been, that such a gigantic leap forward in his level of play would still only get him to the middle of the pack.
I think this is fair and is perfectly logical. Its also what I think Jones is, a middle of the pack QB. I equate him with Tanneyhill, swap them and I think you get the same results. Not a top QB but not the worst, solidly 15th/16th or so, definitely over drafted.
So the question becomes what do you do? Can you realistically drop him and go with a long time backup like Tyrod, who is probably more like a 30th qb or so, in hopes of landing a top 10 guy in the draft? Or do you do what the Titans have done to date, and build around him?
Rodgers and Brady and a few others that were and are so efficient are rare. Eli made a ton of mistakes but would win the game, in his prime, more often than not. That's really all that matters.
Agreed. The Giants will likely be placed in a situation having a good QB who can win games, but is not a top 10 guy. What they decide to do will be interesting. Moving on is a risk and sets the team back.
Jones can play better and needs to. But he was good enough yesterday in tough conditions.
I know some douchebags won’t read week 1 and have to give career info on the others.
Just ONE??
Even after a huge G*D*MN win????????
HOLY PHUCQUE!!!!!!!
I know some douchebags won’t read week 1 and have to give career info on the others.
This post actually doesn’t make the point you think it makes.
I know some douchebags won’t read week 1 and have to give career info on the others.
Can we agree that great QBs can have mediocre games sometimes? Can we also agree that mediocre QBs can have great games sometimes? Can we also agree that one regular season game doesn't give us enough information to change the overall perception of any QB, regardless of whether they're considered great or mediocre, or anywhere in between?
Cool. So with that in mind, let's see DJ continue to progress before we use a single game to place him in the company of some of the league's better QBs. Is that fair? Or does that count as giving career info on the others?
I was a little surprised it was that low, but the INT in the end zone was a killer taking guaranteed points off the board.
Jones's YPA was very solid. So that was a positive as that stat more often than not ties directly to wins/losses.
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What would be the thoughts of the performance of Burrow, Brady and Dak. All 4 have similar o line problems. The other teams all have true #1 WRs and Functioning pro TEs.
I know some douchebags won’t read week 1 and have to give career info on the others.
This post actually doesn’t make the point you think it makes.
Explain
Just ONE??
Even after a huge G*D*MN win????????
HOLY PHUCQUE!!!!!!!
Can't you?
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In comment 15813067 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In QBR is sliding a yard short of the first down twice, missed receivers, poor keeps on read option.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
He also came back from that awful 1st half and bad INT and led a GW TD drive in the final minutes
Lets see if the PTSD from the previous coaching regimes wears off during the season
I’d say Saqoun led the game winning drive. Jones had three passing attempts for 11 yards. Until the play on the 1 they ran the ball 8 straight times. They clearly didn’t want to put the ball in his hands until they could minimize the risk.
If the Giants drive had failed, Jones would have gotten the blame. So since the drive succeeded, he gets the credit
Fact is he made the plays he had to make in that final drive to win the game
We get it - you are a "Jones sucks" guy. He won the game with a last minute TD, lets see what happens vs Carolina
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Can't you MF'ers stay away from these G*d*mn Jones 57,000 post threads for even one G*D*MN day??
Just ONE??
Even after a huge G*D*MN win????????
HOLY PHUCQUE!!!!!!!
Can't you?
Piss off dickhead.
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In comment 15813351 Giants73 said:
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What would be the thoughts of the performance of Burrow, Brady and Dak. All 4 have similar o line problems. The other teams all have true #1 WRs and Functioning pro TEs.
I know some douchebags won’t read week 1 and have to give career info on the others.
This post actually doesn’t make the point you think it makes.
Explain
It makes the point that let’s not react to 1 game of 1 played in the season. I’d wager all three QBs end up with better numbers than Jones this year even if their oline issues persist
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In comment 15813088 Snablats said:
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In comment 15813067 ajr2456 said:
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In QBR is sliding a yard short of the first down twice, missed receivers, poor keeps on read option.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
He also came back from that awful 1st half and bad INT and led a GW TD drive in the final minutes
Lets see if the PTSD from the previous coaching regimes wears off during the season
I’d say Saqoun led the game winning drive. Jones had three passing attempts for 11 yards. Until the play on the 1 they ran the ball 8 straight times. They clearly didn’t want to put the ball in his hands until they could minimize the risk.
If the Giants drive had failed, Jones would have gotten the blame. So since the drive succeeded, he gets the credit
Fact is he made the plays he had to make in that final drive to win the game
We get it - you are a "Jones sucks" guy. He won the game with a last minute TD, lets see what happens vs Carolina
So nobody else gets credit? Not even the guy who accounted for 90% of the yards on the drive? We get it, you’re a Jones over the Giants guy.
I was a little surprised it was that low, but the INT in the end zone was a killer taking guaranteed points off the board.
Jones's YPA was very solid. So that was a positive as that stat more often than not ties directly to wins/losses.
Let me add as well, the fact that NextGen grades Jones 7th despite a critical turnover in the endzone tells me there is a flaw in the analysis.
Tons of games in the NFL are of the one score variety, so when you make a mistake with a turnover going in for a score, it's usually a killer.
That makes no sense.
If the Giants' drive had failed and Jones was the reason, he'd get the blame.
But he doesn't get the credit for the drive succeeding if he had little to do with its success. What if the drive succeeded in spite of DJ? He still gets credit?
If I try to repair my car myself and can't figure it out, but my brother who used to be an auto mechanic comes over and finishes the job for me, who gets credit for its completion? And who would have gotten the blame if my brother didn't come over to help me out?
And he was way better in that WFT game than he was yesterday
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In comment 15813088 Snablats said:
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In comment 15813067 ajr2456 said:
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In QBR is sliding a yard short of the first down twice, missed receivers, poor keeps on read option.
Every QB will have some good moments, but what we saw was the same Jones we’ve seen for 3 years. The football IQ just isn’t there.
He also came back from that awful 1st half and bad INT and led a GW TD drive in the final minutes
Lets see if the PTSD from the previous coaching regimes wears off during the season
I’d say Saqoun led the game winning drive. Jones had three passing attempts for 11 yards. Until the play on the 1 they ran the ball 8 straight times. They clearly didn’t want to put the ball in his hands until they could minimize the risk.
If the Giants drive had failed, Jones would have gotten the blame. So since the drive succeeded, he gets the credit
Fact is he made the plays he had to make in that final drive to win the game
We get it - you are a "Jones sucks" guy. He won the game with a last minute TD, lets see what happens vs Carolina
They called his number on 4th and one on the final drive. They quite literally put the ball in his hands with the game on the line.
Interesting that he didn't throw to Bellinger here. Instead, he looks off Bellinger toward Sills downfield (who has safety help) and then checks back to Bellinger (then winds up) before getting sacked.
I'm not blaming Jones necessarily. He wanted the big play with Sills and thought he had time. If he hits Bellinger he gets pegged as being a check-down artist.
They called his number on 4th and one on the final drive. They quite literally put the ball in his hands with the game on the line.
It was second down. They ran an extremely safe play call where if the tight end wasn’t open the ball was going out of bounds or Jones was running with it. If that play was incomplete you could put money on it they’re pounding it up the middle the next two plays.
GD with plenty of good posts above.
Jones isn't moving his head around quick enough, even on play action, he lets the ball drift below his waist, he has a longer wind-up and not a very quick release. Yesterday he got too much pressure in first half, but he isn't doing anybody favors in not speeding things up with his own game.
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was actually a 25, which is far below average. Just FYI on that distinction.
I was a little surprised it was that low, but the INT in the end zone was a killer taking guaranteed points off the board.
Jones's YPA was very solid. So that was a positive as that stat more often than not ties directly to wins/losses.
Let me add as well, the fact that NextGen grades Jones 7th despite a critical turnover in the endzone tells me there is a flaw in the analysis.
Tons of games in the NFL are of the one score variety, so when you make a mistake with a turnover going in for a score, it's usually a killer.
Maybe - just maybe - the ESPN QBR rating is also equally flawed? You yourself said "I was surprised it was that low".
Yes, it was a horrific INT. But he also let them to a game winning drive with a minute left, including a crucial bootleg on 4th down. Seems that ESPN's analysis puts too much emphasis on ONE result, and appears to not give enough credit for all the good things he did yesterday
One of the (many) critiques of Jones is that he's not a winner; well, he won yesterday, and was a big part of it. He showed a ton of resiliency to lead that GW drive after the pick.
Yet, we still have people on this thread complaining he didn't look good doing it. Well, they were playing the #1 team in the AFC last season. On the road no less. You assholes take away from the success that Jones had in his rookie season by saying "well, the competition sucked". Well guess what? He beat a really fucking good team, and there are still complaints.
The level that some people go to twist themselves up and shit on a guy just because they don't like him is quite hilarious.
I'm 100% sure that if Jones had thrown for a TD instead of he INT and that ended up being the winning score, several people on this thread - including you - would try to take away from Jones by saying "he didn't really do much, ST gave him such a short field." Can't you assholes stop being so miserable for a second and celebrate the win?? They haven't been over 500 for SIX FUCKING YEARS!!
Jones did a great thing yesterday - he not only won a game, but beat a really good team on the road. Did he have help? Yep, sure did. Imagine that - a QB got help from skill position players(SB and Shepard), and that QB performed much better; I mean what are the odds? As I've been saying all along - it's hard to win when you've got shit all around you. If SB is really back - and Shepard can stay on the field - and the OL can start pass blocking as well as they run blocked yesterday, then maybe they can actually win more than the 3-4 games people have predicted...
JFC...
So we're going to just act like "a few hundred yards" is inconsequential? On top of the 200 yards that the OP already gifted DJ? DJ's actual extrapolated passing yards over a full season based on yesterday's game is 3200, not 3400. So a few hundred yards plus a couple hundred more yards, and all of a sudden, you're 500 yards behind a typical RW season.
Is 500 passing yards over the course of a full season just a rounding error? Here's Russell Wilson's extrapolated numbers for each of the past four seasons, adjusted for 17 games:
2018: 3664 yards passing
2019: 4367 yards passing
2020: 4476 yards passing
2021: 3781 yards passing
Here's DJ's actual extrapolated passing yards for 2022, based on yesterday: 3196 yards passing.
Just so we're on the same page, even taking the lowest of RW's extrapolated passing yard totals above, is 468 yards (28 per game (+15% vs. DJ's current extrapolated total) really just "a few hundred yards"?
Even when you cherry pick two relatively weak RW seasons (and ignore the two in between where RW would be more than a full thousand yards ahead of DJ's extrapolated 2022), RW is still 15% ahead of DJ in passing yards, to say nothing of the turnovers.
AND AT THE VERY SAME TIME
acknowledge that the QB struggled throughout the game at times and may not be the long term solution.
QBR rarely tells the story and does not account for the situation of the game. Reality is his skill guys are lacking. His PP is very leaky. He made make some critical mistakes. He made some important plays.
Coaching staff also needs to adjust. The team has some strengths and they need to game plan and call the game accordingly. Not sure trying to move the ball via a quick passing attack is the best option at this point.
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In comment 15813390 Snablats said:
They called his number on 4th and one on the final drive. They quite literally put the ball in his hands with the game on the line.
It was second down. They ran an extremely safe play call where if the tight end wasn’t open the ball was going out of bounds or Jones was running with it. If that play was incomplete you could put money on it they’re pounding it up the middle the next two plays.
First play following the 2 minute warning was a 4th and 1 bootleg.
If you think that's bad, you should see the level of contortion that we have to tolerate from the DJFC or else be called bad fans.
You're not Giants fans. You're DJ fans. Just fucking own it already.
AND AT THE VERY SAME TIME
acknowledge that the QB struggled throughout the game at times and may not be the long term solution.
The fact that people can’t comprehend this blows my mind. Apparently nobody is allowed to hold two thoughts at the same time
QBR rarely tells the story and does not account for the situation of the game. Reality is his skill guys are lacking. .
His skill guys are lacking? Saquon drove the offense. Think how much better Barkley could do with a dangerous passing game.
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In comment 15813479 Ron Johnson said:
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In comment 15813390 Snablats said:
They called his number on 4th and one on the final drive. They quite literally put the ball in his hands with the game on the line.
It was second down. They ran an extremely safe play call where if the tight end wasn’t open the ball was going out of bounds or Jones was running with it. If that play was incomplete you could put money on it they’re pounding it up the middle the next two plays.
First play following the 2 minute warning was a 4th and 1 bootleg.
So they didn’t trust him throwing the ball, thanks for making my point
AND AT THE VERY SAME TIME
acknowledge that the QB struggled throughout the game at times and may not be the long term solution.
+1
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come on, it would be a few hundred yards off a typical Russell Wilson season. in 2 of his last 4 seasons he's averaged only 220 yards per game.
So we're going to just act like "a few hundred yards" is inconsequential? On top of the 200 yards that the OP already gifted DJ? DJ's actual extrapolated passing yards over a full season based on yesterday's game is 3200, not 3400. So a few hundred yards plus a couple hundred more yards, and all of a sudden, you're 500 yards behind a typical RW season.
Is 500 passing yards over the course of a full season just a rounding error? Here's Russell Wilson's extrapolated numbers for each of the past four seasons, adjusted for 17 games:
2018: 3664 yards passing
2019: 4367 yards passing
2020: 4476 yards passing
2021: 3781 yards passing
Here's DJ's actual extrapolated passing yards for 2022, based on yesterday: 3196 yards passing.
Just so we're on the same page, even taking the lowest of RW's extrapolated passing yard totals above, is 468 yards (28 per game (+15% vs. DJ's current extrapolated total) really just "a few hundred yards"?
Even when you cherry pick two relatively weak RW seasons (and ignore the two in between where RW would be more than a full thousand yards ahead of DJ's extrapolated 2022), RW is still 15% ahead of DJ in passing yards, to say nothing of the turnovers.
you are extrapolating 1 stat from 1 game without the context that he only had 21 passing attempts (9 yards per attempt for all the super fans of that stat) and acting like it's a disqualifier when the whole exercise is an act of small sample size futility even taking everything together.
for his career he has averaged 220 yards per game, at a far less efficient 6.7 yards per attempt, which is +30 from yesterday. so in an offense that looked 100x more functional than the one we saw the last couple years regression in passing yardage is pretty far down the list of concerns. if richie james hangs on to that 1 first down he dropped jones would have had 20 more right there (and been 18/21).
Anyone that doesn’t understand his pressure rate is very much a part of his poor awareness and the consistently slow speed he reads the field and at moves through his progressions is bare minimum being willfully ignorant about the way the game is played.
QB rating is dated and that’s why QBR was even made. It might have shortcomings but it’s better than the DJFC and the acrobatics of saying Jones is part of the solution.
They want to toss out years of data showing he can’t win and act like he can be a QB on a winning team when winning required a heroic effort from Barkley, a muffed ping, a missed field goal and a puzzling use of a timeout by the Titans.
We won in spite of Jones yesterday. Calling him inconsistent is the most generous term you can use. How anyone could watch Jones yesterday and think that player could do anything in the playoffs is beyond me. And isn’t that the goal? Barkley actually should not be relied on as much as he would need to be for us to even make the playoffs based on his durability issues and that would be a truly sad outcome for this year. Seeing him run into the ground because Jones is a backup level QB drafted 6 that is still playing because the owner fell in love with him.
But I wouldn't puff my chest out about a HC and OC who both come from pass-happy offenses keeping the reins on the volume of their own passing attack. It could be match-up driven, or it could be personnel-driven. I don't think we'll be able to make any determination on that for weeks.
But I wouldn't puff my chest out about a HC and OC who both come from pass-happy offenses keeping the reins on the volume of their own passing attack. It could be match-up driven, or it could be personnel-driven. I don't think we'll be able to make any determination on that for weeks.
another swing and miss - he got sacked 5x which were obviously called passing plays, ran it himself another 6x (some RPOs, some scrambles, 1 designed boot), and at least 2 or 3 swing passes went backwards making them runs (at least 1 each to toney/barkley).
So out of 58 plays they called something like 30 passes, 25 designed runs and 3 RPOs that turned into QB runs.
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In comment 15813543 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15813479 Ron Johnson said:
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In comment 15813390 Snablats said:
They called his number on 4th and one on the final drive. They quite literally put the ball in his hands with the game on the line.
It was second down. They ran an extremely safe play call where if the tight end wasn’t open the ball was going out of bounds or Jones was running with it. If that play was incomplete you could put money on it they’re pounding it up the middle the next two plays.
First play following the 2 minute warning was a 4th and 1 bootleg.
So they didn’t trust him throwing the ball, thanks for making my point
???
the drive ended with a touchdown pass
You can’t run the ball every down. It isn’t college. They had zero faith in him throwing the ball on that drive. It’s obvious to anyone
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Are a side note or if they are the actual story. That's going to require a much bigger sample size, as you note.
But I wouldn't puff my chest out about a HC and OC who both come from pass-happy offenses keeping the reins on the volume of their own passing attack. It could be match-up driven, or it could be personnel-driven. I don't think we'll be able to make any determination on that for weeks.
another swing and miss - he got sacked 5x which were obviously called passing plays, ran it himself another 6x (some RPOs, some scrambles, 1 designed boot), and at least 2 or 3 swing passes went backwards making them runs (at least 1 each to toney/barkley).
So out of 58 plays they called something like 30 passes, 25 designed runs and 3 RPOs that turned into QB runs.
"Another swing and miss" from the guy who tried to claim that Russell Wilson is only a few hundred yards better than DJ over the course of a full season.
That's cute.
"Jones has a top 10 passer rating" in the early part of last season.
One game folks. One game under this new regime and he wasn't half bad.
If he keeps on looking like a guy who is merely along for the ride, the Giants will do the right thing this off-season because the money and timing of things will force their hand.
He didn't lose his job yesterday. HE didn't earn a long term deal either. More work needed. More answers are needed. All Jones did was help win a game. He needs to play better but he's getting more time to prove he can. As long as he wins he will buy time.
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In comment 15813678 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Are a side note or if they are the actual story. That's going to require a much bigger sample size, as you note.
But I wouldn't puff my chest out about a HC and OC who both come from pass-happy offenses keeping the reins on the volume of their own passing attack. It could be match-up driven, or it could be personnel-driven. I don't think we'll be able to make any determination on that for weeks.
another swing and miss - he got sacked 5x which were obviously called passing plays, ran it himself another 6x (some RPOs, some scrambles, 1 designed boot), and at least 2 or 3 swing passes went backwards making them runs (at least 1 each to toney/barkley).
So out of 58 plays they called something like 30 passes, 25 designed runs and 3 RPOs that turned into QB runs.
"Another swing and miss" from the guy who tried to claim that Russell Wilson is only a few hundred yards better than DJ over the course of a full season.
That's cute.
ah another swing and miss from the guy who chose to gloss over his previous swing and miss. probably a good decision.
In comment 15813288 Eric on Li said:
but sure, why worry about the fact that the 2 of them actually averaged the same 220 YPG last year (and are within 10 yards for their careers) when we can instead cherry pick 1 negative stat from a low volume game.
the obvious point stands from the poster who extrapolated Jones' stats yesterday to a full season - in totality it would be a success no matter how hard you try to cherry pick an individual stat where it wouldn't be.
is anyone even arguing that jones was especially good yesterday? the anti-jones crowd is seeing ghosts.
You have lower standards - that's fine.
You have lower standards - that's fine.
we do live on different planets, yours apparently has no concept of the limitation of extrapolating small sample sizes without context.
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Because I would never call a 3200 yard passing season in today's NFL a success unless it also included 800+ rushing yards and 40+ total TDs.
You have lower standards - that's fine.
we do live on different planets, yours apparently has no concept of the limitation of extrapolating small sample sizes without context.
I'm not the one who tried to extrapolate the data in the first place, so spare me. And I'm certainly not the one who tried to pass off a crazy misrepresentation like "it would be a few hundred yards off a typical Russell Wilson season" so maybe a mirror might be in order? Or just stick to recommending that the Giants use the franchise tag on every player that reaches free agency as you seem wont to do.
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In comment 15813784 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Because I would never call a 3200 yard passing season in today's NFL a success unless it also included 800+ rushing yards and 40+ total TDs.
You have lower standards - that's fine.
we do live on different planets, yours apparently has no concept of the limitation of extrapolating small sample sizes without context.
I'm not the one who tried to extrapolate the data in the first place, so spare me. And I'm certainly not the one who tried to pass off a crazy misrepresentation like "it would be a few hundred yards off a typical Russell Wilson season" so maybe a mirror might be in order? Or just stick to recommending that the Giants use the franchise tag on every player that reaches free agency as you seem wont to do.
i think we have an understanding! I'll continue suggesting they use cap space to try to keep good players who help them win games, you can continue enjoying your nyg fandom by finding ways to explain why yesterday wasn't a good day because of 1 extrapolated stat as you seem wont to do.
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Because I would never call a 3200 yard passing season in today's NFL a success unless it also included 800+ rushing yards and 40+ total TDs.
You have lower standards - that's fine.
we do live on different planets, yours apparently has no concept of the limitation of extrapolating small sample sizes without context.
Didn’t you extrapolate a small sample size?
Wilson and Jones aren’t in the same galaxy in terms of playing the QB position
He had a decent game manager game where he managed to complete a high percentage of his check downs. Completed 1 long pass and had 1 devastatingly bad interception. Its a game where the staff was obviously very careful with him and spoon fed him like the backup QB that he is.
Its possible to scrape out 8 or 9 wins with QB performances like that if we get a lot of good breaks. If we want to be an actual good team then we need an actual good QB
Maybe a little better pass protection and a few more wins and he'll regain his confidence throwing the ball downfield. Yesterday was not good enough for a top half of the league QB. But 1-0 is.
Maybe a little better pass protection and a few more wins and he'll regain his confidence throwing the ball downfield. Yesterday was not good enough for a top half of the league QB. But 1-0 is.
Did he though? They ran the ball 9 times and accumulated 11 yards in the air on that drive.
I’ve been critical of the Saqoun pick, but he led that drive down the field not Jones. Without Saqoun they might have gotten shut out yesterday. That’s the big deal from yesterday.
Maybe - just maybe - the ESPN QBR rating is also equally flawed? You yourself said "I was surprised it was that low".
Yes, it was a horrific INT. But he also let them to a game winning drive with a minute left, including a crucial bootleg on 4th down. Seems that ESPN's analysis puts too much emphasis on ONE result, and appears to not give enough credit for all the good things he did yesterday
One of the (many) critiques of Jones is that he's not a winner; well, he won yesterday, and was a big part of it. He showed a ton of resiliency to lead that GW drive after the pick.
Yet, we still have people on this thread complaining he didn't look good doing it. Well, they were playing the #1 team in the AFC last season. On the road no less. You assholes take away from the success that Jones had in his rookie season by saying "well, the competition sucked". Well guess what? He beat a really fucking good team, and there are still complaints.
The level that some people go to twist themselves up and shit on a guy just because they don't like him is quite hilarious.
I'm 100% sure that if Jones had thrown for a TD instead of he INT and that ended up being the winning score, several people on this thread - including you - would try to take away from Jones by saying "he didn't really do much, ST gave him such a short field." Can't you assholes stop being so miserable for a second and celebrate the win?? They haven't been over 500 for SIX FUCKING YEARS!!
Jones did a great thing yesterday - he not only won a game, but beat a really good team on the road. Did he have help? Yep, sure did. Imagine that - a QB got help from skill position players(SB and Shepard), and that QB performed much better; I mean what are the odds? As I've been saying all along - it's hard to win when you've got shit all around you. If SB is really back - and Shepard can stay on the field - and the OL can start pass blocking as well as they run blocked yesterday, then maybe they can actually win more than the 3-4 games people have predicted...
JFC...
I have expressed that QBR is not a flawless stat many times. But because it attempts to capture each moment of the game where a QB had the ball in his hand, and had to make a decision, that distinguishes it from other traditional stats where the total final numbers are simply aggregated and plugged into a formula. In other words, QBR at least attempts to combine science with art, art being the opinion (yes, subjective) of the expert who review each play of a game.
If anything, I came on this thread to clarify what the OP wrote because it was wrong. Too many stats when it comes to QB performance end up being synonymous, but they aren't.
I haven't really given any opinion on Jones's performance other than the INT in the endzone was very bad - I think that is the consensus - and how such an error impacts a stat like QBR. So, your vitriol on Jones's overall performance is with others, not me.
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In comment 15813382 bw in dc said:
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was actually a 25, which is far below average. Just FYI on that distinction.
I was a little surprised it was that low, but the INT in the end zone was a killer taking guaranteed points off the board.
Jones's YPA was very solid. So that was a positive as that stat more often than not ties directly to wins/losses.
Let me add as well, the fact that NextGen grades Jones 7th despite a critical turnover in the endzone tells me there is a flaw in the analysis.
Tons of games in the NFL are of the one score variety, so when you make a mistake with a turnover going in for a score, it's usually a killer.
Maybe - just maybe - the ESPN QBR rating is also equally flawed? You yourself said "I was surprised it was that low".
Yes, it was a horrific INT. But he also let them to a game winning drive with a minute left, including a crucial bootleg on 4th down. Seems that ESPN's analysis puts too much emphasis on ONE result, and appears to not give enough credit for all the good things he did yesterday
One of the (many) critiques of Jones is that he's not a winner; well, he won yesterday, and was a big part of it. He showed a ton of resiliency to lead that GW drive after the pick.
Yet, we still have people on this thread complaining he didn't look good doing it. Well, they were playing the #1 team in the AFC last season. On the road no less. You assholes take away from the success that Jones had in his rookie season by saying "well, the competition sucked". Well guess what? He beat a really fucking good team, and there are still complaints.
The level that some people go to twist themselves up and shit on a guy just because they don't like him is quite hilarious.
I'm 100% sure that if Jones had thrown for a TD instead of he INT and that ended up being the winning score, several people on this thread - including you - would try to take away from Jones by saying "he didn't really do much, ST gave him such a short field." Can't you assholes stop being so miserable for a second and celebrate the win?? They haven't been over 500 for SIX FUCKING YEARS!!
Jones did a great thing yesterday - he not only won a game, but beat a really good team on the road. Did he have help? Yep, sure did. Imagine that - a QB got help from skill position players(SB and Shepard), and that QB performed much better; I mean what are the odds? As I've been saying all along - it's hard to win when you've got shit all around you. If SB is really back - and Shepard can stay on the field - and the OL can start pass blocking as well as they run blocked yesterday, then maybe they can actually win more than the 3-4 games people have predicted...
JFC...
DJ led the game winning drive? Let me check the play by play... SB 4 yards, SB 3 yards, SB 33 yards, SB 5 yards, SB 7 yards, SB 2 yards. Then SB rush for the 2p conversion. So Saquon accounts for 75% of the yards plus trucking 4 defenders on the 2pc but Daniel Jones gets all the credit for the game winning drive? Makes sense to me.
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In comment 15813784 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Because I would never call a 3200 yard passing season in today's NFL a success unless it also included 800+ rushing yards and 40+ total TDs.
You have lower standards - that's fine.
we do live on different planets, yours apparently has no concept of the limitation of extrapolating small sample sizes without context.
Didn’t you extrapolate a small sample size?
Wilson and Jones aren’t in the same galaxy in terms of playing the QB position
i didn't extrapolate anything, someone else did. i responded to GD's response because his argument was flawed in all of the ways ive explained. extrapolating off a 1 game sample size is a questionable at best exercise but if you are to do it at least take it as a whole without cherry picking the parts you like, dismissing the parts you dont, and ignoring all relevant context (game flow, opponent, etc).
DJ led the game winning drive? Let me check the play by play... SB 4 yards, SB 3 yards, SB 33 yards, SB 5 yards, SB 7 yards, SB 2 yards. Then SB rush for the 2p conversion. So Saquon accounts for 75% of the yards plus trucking 4 defenders on the 2pc but Daniel Jones gets all the credit for the game winning drive? Makes sense to me.
To be fair, Jones did convert the 4th and one. That was a big play. And he did hit Myarick for the TD.
But it was pretty much a Barkley-fest that last drive, especially the two-point conversion.
You mean like what you did with Russell Wilson only being a few hundred yards better than DJ on a per-season basis? Or HMunster's omission of turnovers in his post that prompted this entire back and forth?
That kind of cherry-picking?
Right now he has a #4 and #7 pick on rookie deals protecting him and the OL is still holding him back according to many. What happens if we have to pay this Barkley a market rate? Pay up and coming players like McKinney, I think a lot of us see serious problems with our ability to win with Jones not on a rookie deal and just do not see enough progress with him as a player in field awareness, maybe the most important part of being a QB in the NFL.
Personally I think Mara may be hell bent on paying the guy unless the fanbase raises a stink. Happily after yesterday I think Daboll might not be on that page. Nonetheless that's why IMO you see criticism of Jones ramping up because it was fine to sort of "take a flyer" on him being an ascending player on a rookie deal but the way he plays the game and sees the field should be scary to any fan thinking about committing a good chunk of our cap to him. It certainly is to me.
To be clear and for the record, if he was on a rookie deal for 3 more years and this was his first season I'd say let's see if he can work out the kinks more, if he can be coached up. I do not want us to use a good chunk of our cap for that gamble and neither should anyone even if he throws for 3400 yards.
I enjoyed the win, love a lot of players on the team. Jones isn't one of them. I don't know why some people can't get it through their heads that the way he plays the game, his inability to see the field, his poor pocket awareness, his slow release/decision making ability make his protection look worse than it is. What you see as a mitigating factor to him playing poorly especially in the first half I see as a large problem that will continue that he is very much a part of.
This is his 4th year as a starter in the NFL and he is still displaying very little feel for the game which may be the most important thing for a QB that is a winner. Stop comparing him to players with tons of feel, they aren't apt. He will never sniff where Rodgers is in that category.
Why does it matter if BBI rallies around DJ? Is he reading BBI? And even if he is, is he so fragile that even after a win, he'll be devastated to find out that there are some fans who remain concerned with aspects of his play?
The answer to the last two questions should be "no" and the answer to the first question should be "it doesn't."
When Jones puts up Aaron Rodgers numbers get back to us.
the obvious point stands from the poster who extrapolated Jones' stats yesterday to a full season - in totality it would be a success no matter how hard you try to cherry pick an individual stat where it wouldn't be.
is anyone even arguing that jones was especially good yesterday? the anti-jones crowd is seeing ghosts. [/quote]
So 3,200 yards in a 17 game season, 34 touchdowns with 34 turnovers is success to you? Wow.
It's this level of comedy that makes BBI special...
Maras lust for Jones is the single biggest risk facing the Giants in the near future if you want them to be a high end team.
Quote:
DJ led the game winning drive? Let me check the play by play... SB 4 yards, SB 3 yards, SB 33 yards, SB 5 yards, SB 7 yards, SB 2 yards. Then SB rush for the 2p conversion. So Saquon accounts for 75% of the yards plus trucking 4 defenders on the 2pc but Daniel Jones gets all the credit for the game winning drive? Makes sense to me.
To be fair, Jones did convert the 4th and one. That was a big play. And he did hit Myarick for the TD.
But it was pretty much a Barkley-fest that last drive, especially the two-point conversion.
Meh. If the QB highlights are a 1 yard dive and a 1 yard pop pass then I think it's pretty clear the QB wasn't leading the game winning drive.
“Aside from that . . . “
LMAO
Please continue to remove any plays, numbers and statistics you need to in order to validate your point.
And “aside from that” he completed 16 passes. Aside from 15 of those he only completed 1 pass for 10 yards. And aside from that 1 pass? He was 0-0 for 0 yards.
Rock on!
the obvious point stands from the poster who extrapolated Jones' stats yesterday to a full season - in totality it would be a success no matter how hard you try to cherry pick an individual stat where it wouldn't be.
is anyone even arguing that jones was especially good yesterday? the anti-jones crowd is seeing ghosts.
So 3,200 yards in a 17 game season, 34 touchdowns with 34 turnovers is success to you? Wow.
Extrapolating, he’d have had to endure 85 sacks and 136 hits to post those …. So maybe not that bad considering
Arguing over which statistic rolls all that up best is kind of silly. It wasn't a great performance, but it was a good performance. It was what was needed to win, despite the boneheaded interception. And if he was throwing short all the time, that was probably because the OL was not able to contain the pass rush very well. (To cite another limited stats, one of his linemen had a PFF grade of 0 in pass protection. I don't think I have ever seen that before.) stat
Arguing over which statistic rolls all that up best is kind of silly. It wasn't a great performance, but it was a good performance. It was what was needed to win, despite the boneheaded interception. And if he was throwing short all the time, that was probably because the OL was not able to contain the pass rush very well. (To cite another limited stats, one of his linemen had a PFF grade of 0 in pass protection. I don't think I have ever seen that before.) stat
Sorry but a 25% QBR is not a "good" performance. That means the team as a whole had to counteract his performance all game. Saquon especially. Saquon did all the heavy lifting on that final drive and including the 2pc. Let's not forget that on the 2 point option DJ shovel passed it to Saquon who already had 2 defenders on him in the backfield. Not a great read and basically any other running back is going to get blown up on that play. Saquon then trucked 2 more guys at the goal line for the 2 points - 4 defenders total. So let's cool it with saying DJ played well when the reality of the stats is that the team had a 75% chance of losing that game based on the QB play alone.