Dave Gettleman: Somewhere he's smiling....

.

and enjoyed the win like the rest of us.

Quote:

...he did as much harm as good

That is an awfully generous way to remember things.

irrational exuberance...

In comment 15814827 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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and enjoyed the win like the rest of us.

Your take is far more mature and well thought out than mine.

;-)

caught two passes @ $ 120,000 a piece. :)

Gettleman also would have probably kept Judge another year if he remained GM and Sunday would have been another disaster.

You’re right - I think we should rehire him asap

This thread won’t go well.

But I absolutely refuse to believe he is/was the befuddled fool many of you make him out to be. You aren’t part of football as long as he has been and be a complete clueless idiot.

Thomas and McKinney look great right now. Julian Love is a nice role player. So is Dex

But on balance, the harm DG did to the cap and whiffing on free agents and most of his picks set the org back at least a couple years

FA signing was atrocious.

Coaching selection especially among assistants was poor

even for "He who shall not be named the second"

he had a plan - it just didn't work.

In comment 15814841 George from PA said:

Quote:

FA signing was atrocious. Coaching selection especially among assistants was poor

The 2019 draft was horrific with three 1st rounders.

aside from Thomas and Bredeson, every other OL is new. (though Gates was a good get as well). Schoen has had more success putting together an OL than Gettleman did his entire time here.

Additionally, it's early, but Schoen looks like he put together a better coaching staff than Gettleman ever did.

You're right.

We made a huge mistake of getting rid of Gettleman.

Damn.

In comment 15814845 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 15814841 George from PA said: Quote: FA signing was atrocious. Coaching selection especially among assistants was poor The 2019 draft was horrific with three 1st rounders.

He would have drafted Justin Hebert had he not decided to return to school for his senior season

In comment 15814849 LTIsTheGreatest said:

Quote:

In comment 15814845 Sean said: Quote: In comment 15814841 George from PA said: Quote: FA signing was atrocious. Coaching selection especially among assistants was poor The 2019 draft was horrific with three 1st rounders. He would have drafted Justin Hebert had he not decided to return to school for his senior season

He doesn’t get credit for that. Instead he reached and forced the Jones pick in a QB weak class.

In comment 15814844 Dnew15 said:

Quote:

he had a plan - it just didn't work.

I'm not sure I would go as far to say that he wasn't a complete idiot.

He's pretty stupid.

We don't know what Barkley and Jones future is with the Giants never mind the next month or full season to play out.

Andrew Thomas looks like a fine pick, but it's important to note that Jason Garrett and some scouts were pushing that pick hard and apparently Gettleman was equally enamored with Wirfs (which would have been a fine pick likely as well), so that context matters.

In comment 15814844 Dnew15 said:

Quote:

he had a plan - it just didn't work.

Have you seen the Giants cap situation?

Without sucking him off for the inability to create value, make good trades, manage the cap, and being a complete pompous arrogant prick for underperforming his entire tenure here as GM

Any fool can look good on first round pick performance. How about the other 90% of the roster he built here?

Clearly, Gettleman wasn't. He may have been a fine director of pro scouting, but he was an unspeakably bad GM.

In comment 15814860 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 15814844 Dnew15 said: Quote: he had a plan - it just didn't work. Have you seen the Giants cap situation?

I'm a 100% sure he expected DJ and Barkley to be stud players that would be extended at this point.

Then, when it didn't pan out, he made panic moves to save his job....

It's not hard to figure out AND I can't say I wouldn't have done the same if I were in his shoes.

.

DG might go down as one of the worst GM's in NFL history.

Don't

get out of here with this nonsense.

was terrible. Drafting? How about the bazillion draft picks he spent on CBs, including trading up for DeAndre Baker, and then had to sign two expensive FAs (Bradberry and Jackson) to be our starters?

...oh nevermind

he obliterated any good he did by making far too many bone-headed and short-sighted moves that literally handicapped the team.

Shoen has spent a lot of effort unravelling some of the bone-headed moves (or lack of moves) - but the team remains handicapped by the total confluence of bone-headedness - some of which strayed into even desperation and over-reaching arrogance.

Ultimately there is no defense for the shape the team is in - even after a ton of house-cleaning -- with more to come.

So if you want to say that Barkley, Thomas and Jones were ultimately good moves made by Gettleman --

I raise you Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, any and all Right Tackles he hired, Joe Judge, Lorenzo Carter, keeping Evan Engram, Jake Fromm, Jabril Peppers, Billy Price, Kyle Rudolph, Danny Shelton, cutting Tomlinson, Riley Dixon, Mike Glennon, Pat Shurmur and the salary cap hell we are in.

the team is in good hands now with Schoen/Daboll.

and the results of his disastrous tenure as GM speak for themselves....

BUT, it's not like he was out there throwing stuff against the wall and hoping for the best.

There were plenty of people on this site lauding the signings of Nate Solder, Kenny G and the like...

There was a thought process and plan behind what he was doing (some of it was forced on him - that's my opinion, no I don't have any inside info or anything like that) like I said...it just didn't work.

In comment 15814920 Ira said:

Quote:

the team is in good hands now with Schoen/Daboll.

I agree.
And I hope it continues.

In comment 15814914 gidiefor said:

Quote:

he obliterated any good he did by making far too many bone-headed and short-sighted moves that literally handicapped the team. Shoen has spent a lot of effort unravelling some of the bone-headed moves (or lack of moves) - but the team remains handicapped by the total confluence of bone-headedness - some of which strayed into even desperation and over-reaching arrogance. Ultimately there is no defense for the shape the team is in - even after a ton of house-cleaning -- with more to come. So if you want to say that Barkley, Thomas and Jones were ultimately good moves made by Gettleman -- I raise you Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, any and all Right Tackles he hired, Joe Judge, Lorenzo Carter, keeping Evan Engram, Jake Fromm, Jabril Peppers, Billy Price, Kyle Rudolph, Danny Shelton, cutting Tomlinson, Riley Dixon, Mike Glennon, Pat Shurmur and the salary cap hell we are in.

And thats not all:

Trading up to select De'Andre Baker (who had red flags all over himself). swapping their second-round pick at No. 37, a fourth-rounder (No. 132) and a fifth-round pick (No. 142)

Will Hernandez who was a bum drafted in the 2nd round

Wasting a pick on Kyle Lauletta in the 4th round

Paying Golden Tate a ton of money

patrick omameh and never fixing the o-line and never getting a pass rusher.

And that doesn't even include good players that were still the wrong move. Trading for Leonard Williams knowing you would give his agent all the leverage to rob you. Leonard Williams will never even be worth close his contract.

Saquan...as much as I love the player and person. No way the Giants were in a position to draft a RB 2nd overall...even after the great 1 game he had does anyone feel good about paying him a ton of money...RB have such a short shelf life. And the rumors of him not even picking up the phone for potential trade down offers.

And then I am going to come back later this morning and take a big dump on it...

...

In comment 15814848 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

You're right. We made a huge mistake of getting rid of Gettleman. Damn.

The interesting thing is, I don't ACTUALLY think Gettleman was a total disaster. Sure, on balance it didn't work out and he had to go, but as some of the other posters noted in the thread, he's been a part of a lot of (winning) teams, and he certainly had some correct decisions, even some super controversial ones (as this post points out).

The amazing thing is that his personality was so toxic that he became almost impossible to root for; and it's so very easy imagining him sitting at home, chortling to himself about how he was right all along. (Contrast: Jerry Reese's end-of-tenure stretch with the Giants was awful too. But I hold no ill will towards the man.)

Again: I'm sorry I'm a petty jerk Mr. Gettleman.

But, you started it.

In comment 15814925 Dnew15 said:

Quote:

and the results of his disastrous tenure as GM speak for themselves.... BUT, it's not like he was out there throwing stuff against the wall and hoping for the best. There were plenty of people on this site lauding the signings of Nate Solder, Kenny G and the like... There was a thought process and plan behind what he was doing (some of it was forced on him - that's my opinion, no I don't have any inside info or anything like that) like I said...it just didn't work.

He was basically throwing shit up against a wall and hoping it would stick. That was his entire tenure.

He tried to plug holes in FA because he did not land quality players in the draft. That is exactly why we are in the shitty cap situation and low talent mess we are in.

I think you get the point...

was always a good drafter and made some trades - he was HORRIBLE at spending $$$ and finding players in FA. I'm sure he's a happy man right now seeing some of his guys doing so well early on.

In comment 15814944 dschwarz in westchester said:

Quote:

In comment 15814848 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You're right. We made a huge mistake of getting rid of Gettleman. Damn. The interesting thing is, I don't ACTUALLY think Gettleman was a total disaster. Sure, on balance it didn't work out and he had to go, but as some of the other posters noted in the thread, he's been a part of a lot of (winning) teams, and he certainly had some correct decisions, even some super controversial ones (as this post points out). The amazing thing is that his personality was so toxic that he became almost impossible to root for; and it's so very easy imagining him sitting at home, chortling to himself about how he was right all along. (Contrast: Jerry Reese's end-of-tenure stretch with the Giants was awful too. But I hold no ill will towards the man.) Again: I'm sorry I'm a petty jerk Mr. Gettleman. But, you started it.

woah doubling down...good luck

The Patriots lost.

on the 1st round and Nick Chubb on the 2nd. Think where the Giants would be today if he had done that. Instead, he drafted Barkley and Will Hernandez. Needing a qb in 2019 he drafted Jones and was forced to pass on Josh Allen (OLB) and T. J. Hockenson (TE). There's more, but we get the idea.

In comment 15814950 Allen in CNJ said:

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was always a good drafter

Lulz.....his drafts ranged from mediocre to terrible

In comment 15814975 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 15814950 Allen in CNJ said: Quote: was always a good drafter Lulz.....his drafts ranged from mediocre to terrible

yeah a good drafting isn't just being generous to Gentleman its downright insanity... he was constantly picking in the top 10 and has little to nothing to show for it.

He basically hit on Andrew Thomas and Mckinney.

Every other pick he made can be questioned in terms of asset value of where they were picked. Remember he was getting praise for Darius Slayton...the meh's WR of all time.

Hi Mrs. Gettleman.

and some of you maniacs would still die on the old "too highly picked in the draft" hill.

In comment 15814992 djm said:

Quote:

and some of you maniacs would still die on the old "too highly picked in the draft" hill.

Its no hill...its ridiculous to pick a RB that high ever! If you are drafting that high that means your team stinks and you need help in more important areas.

Even if Barkley didn't go down in multiple seasons do you pay him a 2nd contract a ton of money when most running backs never are productive into there late 20's and early 30's?

I love Barkley the player/person...him as the #2 pick was asinine no matter how you look at it.

djm said:

Quote:

and some of you maniacs would still die on the old "too highly picked in the draft" hill.

Ask me when he wins one. 😉

And if he ever does, it will have exactly nothing to do with Dave Gettleman, who built teams so bad that Barkley contributed in any meaningful way to exactly seven wins in four years.

Like Ray Handley did

.

In comment 15814841 George from PA said:

Quote:

FA signing was atrocious. Coaching selection especially among assistants was poor

Ultimately its the buck stops here kind of deal with the GM and head coach hiring, but you can definitely make a case that Mara and Tisch are deeply involved with that mess.

In comment 15815009 DefenseWins said:

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Like Ray Handley did

See...I told you he wasn't a complete idiot :)

In comment 15814848 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

You're right. We made a huge mistake of getting rid of Gettleman. Damn.

Dave probably smiling because he passed gas. Sure, some of his picks were good. But how bout the majority of the team he mucked up and the rancid cap situation he left us with an average at best rookie qb salary?

Let’s try to find some mistakes:
Signed Nate Solder to the biggest contract among OL in NFL history. That was the worst contract in franchise history until…

He signed Kenny Golladay for $18 million a year when he received no better offers than a 1 year $12 million dollar deal from the Bears.

He signed G Patrick Omameh to a 3 year deal. He was so bad that he was released midseason during his first year.

Signed the corpse of Jonathan Stewart for nearly $4 million.

Draft mistakes
Barkley over Josh Allen and Quentin Nelson.
Will Hernandez over Braden Smith

He has 3 1st round picks in 2019
Daniel Jones
Dexter Lawrence
Baker - Traded up for

In 2019 he wanted Justin Herbert but he went back to school and instead of waiting until 2020 to get his guy he panicked and reached for Jones. Then the following year his guy Herbert was on the board but instead of admitting his mistake he passed to try to justify the selection. Sure we landed a stud in Andrew Thomas but there is nobody on the planet that would rather have Thomas over Herbert especially when you consider they could have used the 6th pick in 2019 on another player.

I could keep going but I have stuff to do. Face it Gettleman is right up there with Matt Millen as one of the worst GM’s in league history.

He wasn't good at anything. He was one of the worst GMs in NFL history.

In comment 15815036 adamg said:

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.

LOL. Good threads aren't built in a day dahlin'

In comment 15814838 lono801 said:

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This thread won’t go well. But I absolutely refuse to believe he is/was the befuddled fool many of you make him out to be. You aren’t part of football as long as he has been and be a complete clueless idiot.

He was a clueless idiot

highest PFF grade Ximines!

When Bradberry had that pick 6 for the Eagles

Picking top 10 doesn’t make you a good drafter.

In between that period he created rosters that were bottom-feeder teams every year, winning about 4-5 games each season. This despite playing in a fairly weak NFCE, picking at or near the top of the draft every season and spending above the cap limits on his players and poorly assessed free agent acquistions (using restructured contracts to fit it all). He had a flawed mindset as to how to win, roster creation, positional value, negotiations and the timing of it all. I don't know if he was like that when he was younger but he certainly developed it later in life.

Four years later he left Schoen with a mountain of problem players and contracts, basically no cap space and only a few potential core pieces like Andrew Thomas and Xavier McKinney.

Given a decade or more, I submit Gettleman still would have never fielded a team with a winning season. Never.

His best contribution was simply his pressers, videos and transcripts that accurately portrayed him as a bumbling fool. Because during a very low period of NY Giant football, it felt better to laugh than cry...

but that first year was a disaster. I think the 20/21 drafts will yield more good players than some think.

He was hired to restore the physicality to the franchise that had been lost for years. (Stop the run, run the ball, get after the passer). He understood the big picture but his execution was poor. What we saw yesterday needed to be accomplished to start 2019 imv.

Perhaps he was a blessing in the long run. It cleaned out a lot of people in the front office that had been poor for years and for the most part I think JS is in charge.

In comment 15815138 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

but that first year was a disaster. I think the 20/21 drafts will yield more good players than some think. He was hired to restore the physicality to the franchise that had been lost for years. (Stop the run, run the ball, get after the passer). He understood the big picture but his execution was poor. What we saw yesterday needed to be accomplished to start 2019 imv. Perhaps he was a blessing in the long run. It cleaned out a lot of people in the front office that had been poor for years and for the most part I think JS is in charge.

Agreed 100%

Dave

In comment 15815138 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

but that first year was a disaster. I think the 20/21 drafts will yield more good players than some think. He was hired to restore the physicality to the franchise that had been lost for years. (Stop the run, run the ball, get after the passer). He understood the big picture but his execution was poor. What we saw yesterday needed to be accomplished to start 2019 imv. Perhaps he was a blessing in the long run. It cleaned out a lot of people in the front office that had been poor for years and for the most part I think JS is in charge.

Except his teams didn’t stop the run, couldn’t run the ball and couldn’t rush the passer

unless it's a quarterback.
So, Toney doesn't really stand up as a smart pick. We passed on Michah Parsons, Rashawn Slater, Mac Jones, Christian Darrisaw.
Just give me a solid every game contributor.

had free reign to improve or at least backfill the QB-situation in every one of his years and he failed.

Missing on the quality at QB & Roster in 2018 was bad but he still had 3 additional offseasons to remedy and improve things.

And he failed, badly...

and it's because he called the waitress a "broad" after she delivered his coffee.

To Gettleman after the Seattle win? This is reminiscent

woes of Gettleman are well chronicled on this thread. He doesn't get enough credit for how nepotistic/inbred, stagnant and toxic he made or allowed front office to become. It was really was the frosting on the cake of his disaster.

He was good many year ago, the game passed him by, like it has John Mara. Hiring Schoen and Daboll was a giant step in the right direction for this franchise, but Gettleman killed the franchise, you have to be clueless not to see that, sure he made a few good moves, but look at hus record, look at the mess we have now, it's all on Gettleman. You don't think that everything is great now with one win, did you? Look at the cap mess he made. The Jones puck us horrendous, he played okay this week, something to build on, but this wad not Pat Mahones out there, come on.

you aren't paying attention.

but under Gettleman it proliferated and turned to organizational rot as the game passed him by.

In comment 15815158 Gruber said:

Quote:

unless it's a quarterback. So, Toney doesn't really stand up as a smart pick. We passed on Michah Parsons, Rashawn Slater, Mac Jones, Christian Darrisaw. Just give me a solid every game contributor.

Parsons was too emotionally distraught and shook to go on the Skip Bayless show. He's going to regress to the means, quite likely get in a fist fight with McCarthy in the locker room sometime this season.

In comment 15815224 OlyWABigBlue said:

Quote:

but under Gettleman it proliferated and turned to organizational rot as the game passed him by.

I must of missed all the Gettleman kin hires during his tenure.

The rot was there...it hired him.

I do feel better about DG today than I did a week ago.

Sure he made some good draft choices. But there are lots of people involved there to temper his influence. It was worse with FA as I think he had more personal control. But what was really bad was when it came to building a roster where his vision, or lack thereof, was abysmal. .

In comment 15815260 5BowlsSoon said:

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I do feel better about DG today than I did a week ago.

Because a different head coach and GM won with some gettleman players?

What a wild thing one win does to people’s thinking.

In comment 15815370 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 15815260 5BowlsSoon said: Quote: I do feel better about DG today than I did a week ago. Because a different head coach and GM won with some gettleman players?

I suppose so…..after all, he has taken a lot of abuse for selecting various players, some who happened to play well Sunday.

In comment 15815315 BillT said:

Quote:

Sure he made some good draft choices.

He also made a bunch of awful draft choices

got paid probably over $10 million to be one of the worst performing individuals of all time at his job.

He should be smiling. We are the ones who have to suffer for it.

Had a plus game. I’m sure given his ego he would take all the credit. But it doesn’t mean they were all good picks or that he knew how to manage a roster or pick coaches.

19-46.

Because like a lot of dopes here he would absolutely gloat and feel justified by one game as if that proves anything.

His tenure was a disaster, and he's a condescending moron.

here is one of the odder things I've seen in sports.

New Yorker fans are supposed to be very much of the put up or shut up variety and I never minded that.

The excuse acrobatics made for these losers is ridiculous. I don't care if they go to the playoffs this year as far as DG is concerned. He fielded some of the worst football teams who in addition were consistently outcoached (his hires) and played consistently uninspired football after his big "character" purge.

His job performance is done and a matter of record and there is no overlooking the stench of failure. He was historically bad and that is locked in.

Was one of the more comical lines I recall over the years from the president of his fan club...

In comment 15815606 Jimmy Googs said:

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Was one of the more comical lines I recall over the years from the president of his fan club...

I'm not sure if it's a pathological allergy to the truth or if he actually believes his own lies or he thought his bullshit was flying outside of his loyal band of followers but it was astounding what he tried to get away with.

I did enjoy when even the fairly neutral posters would be like, dude, seriously? He never defended Gettleman! It was just his job to police the bullshit on the board. Jeez. So misunderstood.

We sucked because we had no depth our roster was complete shite.

Building the roster is what he was hired for.

We watched the teams he built.

Worst Giants football since the 70's

If a couple of the 1st and second round picks hit, doesn't come close to changing the abject failure his tenure was.

Barkley ran like a new man yesterday, but the pick was a failure, that shit is done.

Gettleman got fired.

Too little, too late.

If all the yipping about his desire lit a fire in Barkley...

GOOD!

Keep up what happened on Sunday and I would be for re-signing him. The first 4 years happened, he can cut the sting with a great year but it won't erase years 2,3 & 4.

He was worth his pick on Sunday.

Let's see more of that.

How one can defend Gettleman...I'll never understand. He is-IMO-the worst hire in the history of this organization. Even worse than RH. And yes, I know I sound like a broken record, but the fact he got to parade around the field prior to the WFT game & take photos with his family still doesn't sit well with me. He was allowed to 'resign', when he should have been fired. Meanwhile, Reese-who I'm no fan of-gets canned during the season despite being GM of the two Super Bowl winning teams.

In comment 15815686 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

How one can defend Gettleman...I'll never understand. He is-IMO-the worst hire in the history of this organization. Even worse than RH. And yes, I know I sound like a broken record, but the fact he got to parade around the field prior to the WFT game & take photos with his family still doesn't sit well with me. He was allowed to 'resign', when he should have been fired. Meanwhile, Reese-who I'm no fan of-gets canned during the season despite being GM of the two Super Bowl winning teams.

And the logic on here was “what’s firing him in season do?”. The fact he got to resign is the cherry on top of an embarrassing decade of football. To be a worse hire than Mcadoo really is an accomplishment

You know what the two hardest things for a franchise to be able to identify are? The HC and QB. Some teams never have founded both at the same time let alone one.

Reese inherited both. He had a 31 year old two time SB MVP QB to start the 2012 season. Let that sink in.

I thought Mara was a Weasel in that whole Eli thing and looking to cover his ass but this idea of Reese being some glorified GM is mystifying to me. He should have been out for years already. You cannot stay GM if you cannot protect your franchise QB. End of story.

I don't disagree with that that Reese fucked up the back nine of Eli's career.

But his exit compared to DG's...come the fuck on. Reese got fired in December while Dave got to 'resign'.

In comment 15815761 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

I don't disagree with that that Reese fucked up the back nine of Eli's career. But his exit compared to DG's...come the fuck on. Reese got fired in December while Dave got to 'resign'.

Check into that but again I think they just let his contract expire. I also said Mara was a Weasel in how he handled Reese but it should have been done years earlier. Of course at the END of one those seasons.

I think Dave finishing his contract was because Mara did not like how that whole Reese thing went and wanted to show the franchise to be above certain behaviors.

Reese and DG. Oddly...

In comment 15814833 Jay on the Island said:

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Gettleman also would have probably kept Judge another year if he remained GM and Sunday would have been another disaster.

Gettleman would've kept Shurmur another year if they let him.

Yeah he's smiling somewhere. But not as much as I am that he's somewhere.

In comment 15815227 Spiciest Memelord said:

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In comment 15815158 Gruber said: Quote: unless it's a quarterback. So, Toney doesn't really stand up as a smart pick. We passed on Michah Parsons, Rashawn Slater, Mac Jones, Christian Darrisaw. Just give me a solid every game contributor. Parsons was too emotionally distraught and shook to go on the Skip Bayless show. He's going to regress to the means, quite likely get in a fist fight with McCarthy in the locker room sometime this season.

Sacked Brady twice.
Regress to the mean? I doubt it.