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BiteyMax's Next Day Non-Emotional Thoughts

Biteymax22 : 9/19/2022 9:06 am
My “Non-Emotional” thoughts from yesterday’s game. As always feel free to post questions, comments or argue mine…


19-16 Giants. The team is now 2-0 for the first time since 2016 when the team was led by another promising young offensive minded coach. That season was seen as a success as they finished 11-5 and made the playoffs. Unfortunately for that team a picture of the WR core on a boat in Miami surfaced the week before our playoff game. Turns out they had been partying rather than practicing… Some were taken aback by this, some argued players have a right to spend off days how they want, but no one can argue that it was all down hill for Ben McAdoo after that. After going 11-5 and making the playoffs in year one, he was fired before the end of season 2, bounced around the league for a few years and resurfaced yesterday as the Panthers OC.

I wrote the above paragraph as a subtle reminder why I write these threads. We’ve been excited before and not levelheaded when evaluating our team/coaching staff. A lot of us, including myself, have a “don’t want to get hurt again” attitude towards to organization. I understand it completely and don’t blame any skeptics, but 2 games in and things are starting to “feel” different. I’m hopeful but guarded.


Offense:

19 total points coming from 1 TD and 4 FGs, 162 NET passing yards and 103 rushing yards. Its very hard to watch yesterday’s game and say “the offense was good” because they weren’t. Two times to start the game they were given a short field and couldn’t get in the end zone. Some of the things that looked like they needed to be patched up in the Tennessee game still need patching and Carolina worked hard to exploit that. In the end we still scored more points than they did and that’s what really matters, right?

Jones – No matter what I write about him its going to cause debate, I get it. I’m still holding pat that my evaluations on him need to be based on whether he’s a true franchise QB. 2 games in and I still haven’t seen it. During each of the 2 games Jones has had good moments and bad moments. At one point in the 3rd quarter the game flow felt like the Giants were dead but suddenly Jones wakes up and drives the team down the field for a TD. On the flipside, we had 2 trips inside the 20 in which Jones red zone issues popped back up. He also threw a couple “should be” interceptions and missed a wide-open Shepard on a throw that should have been made. I don’t have access to all 22 but to my eye I feel like I did see a few WRs running free down the field that he didn’t see, he did this against TEN as well. The good news is that Daboll/Kafka seem to understand where he is and isn’t strong and are putting together a playbook that works to his strengths.

RBs – Not much of anyone besides Barkley with other backs only getting 2 carries. Barkley statistically didn’t have a good game, but I thought he did a better job than in past years of taking what the defense was giving him and not dancing which causes negative plays. At the end of the game, he consistently got positive yards and allowed us to run out the clock (as did Jones with his legs) which was crucial. I don’t know if Barkley did all this on his own or if DeAndre Smith is an influence, but he’s completely overhauled his running style for the better.

WRs – Who are our WR’s??? It came out after the game finished that Golladay had been benched in favor of David Sills. Kadarius Toney (while he did have 1 long gain nullified) seems to be targeted more of a gadget player. So our starting 3 is Richie James, Shep and Sills??? Not an inspiring group but they seemed to do “just enough” yesterday to help us win the game. Still, average play isn’t going to beat good teams. At some point in this season, we’re going to need Golladay and Toney to step up and play to their contract/draft status, if not, average is going to be the theme of this group and that’s being polite. Clearly though, Daboll and Kafka value reliability over big play ability at WR.

OL – Again, not a good showing in pass protection and the run blocking also took a step back. While Carolina has a good group up front with 2 good edge rushers and some strong DTs, they made us look worse than we are at times. Feliciano had a stretch towards the end of the game where he killed a drive on his own, Neal got beat for a sack early and there were even some sloppy plays from Andrew Thomas. I still expect this group to improve as the season progresses but if things don’t tighten up Micah Parson’s is going to have a field day against us, specifically moving around the formations and hitting the A gaps where we got torched yesterday.


Defense:

Only 16 pts given up and Mayfield was held under 50% passing. The game plan very clearly seemed to be “we’re fine with McCaffery running, we just don’t want him breaking things open in the passing game” and they went with it. McCaffery ran for over 100 yards on a good statistical average, but a huge chunk of that came from 1 49 yard run, other than that he only caught 4 balls. Game plan executed and we won.

DL – Starting with the fact that its going to hurt if Williams isn’t healthy to play against the Cowboys. Being thin at the OLB position due to injuries the coaching staff moved Williams outside where his versatility was on display. I maintain he’s a good player on a bad contract that’s an important part of this team, he played well yesterday. Lawrence seems to be settling in on what his role should be, a run stuffing DT who can get some pressure collapsing the pocket from the middle. He isn’t an end like Graham was playing him. I wanted to call out DJ Davidson as well, I don’t see him in the game a lot, but he seems to make a play whenever I see him in.

LBs – The story of this group seems to be the step Oshane Ximenes has taken forward. Whenever you have a new coaching staff there always seems to be 1 player step up, this season it seems like its Oshane, he played well yesterday. While I was concerned about the LBs in coverage it seems as if Martindale was as well, he opted for a lot of 3 safety looks to contain McCaffery which I’ll talk about later, but the coverage responsibilities were removed from this group yesterday, probably a good call. Play was mixed from the interior LBs, I did notice Crowder took the wrong gap on McCaffery’s long run, but other than that there were no major mistakes. This group will hopefully get Azeez and Thibs back for Dallas.

CBs – I’m splitting CBs and Safety today where I’d usually put them in the same group. As we expected, Adoree Jackson is our best CB with a drop off to the next guy. Adoree played another solid game, he looks fast to react to the ball, smooth in coverage and has raised his physicality. Kudos to Henderson for getting the most out of him. The rest of the CBs were a mixed bag. Flott was starting to get exploited in coverage (and gave up a TD) when he was pulled in favor of the vet Moreau. Holmes got burnt badly on a play in the red zone which was dropped but may have been a touchdown if not, however this group still managed to do enough to make it a bad day for Baker.

Safety – For a while in the offseason this group was viewed as a concern, 2 games in and the reality may be that it’s the strength of this defense. Wink has clearly identified Xavier McKinney as a weapon that he can use, McKinney lined up all over the field and excelled wherever he was put. Not only did he hold McCaffery in check as a WR (he was shadowing him) but McKinney also added 2 batted balls and a couple pressures as a blitzer. Wink seems to be using him as the same Swiss Army Knife that Pittsburg uses Minkah Fitzpatrick as. Love, who I’d like to see extended, plays almost like a McKinney light. Again, he’s moved all over into different roles and seems to play well in all of them. Love will never be a star but is a good football player and plays a winning game. Belton had a great “welcome to the NFL moment” in his first play recovering a fumble. I saw him in and make a few tackles and didn’t hear him making any negative plays, all you can ask for from a guy that didn’t really have a camp. Good showing from this group, they were the heart of the defense yesterday.


Coaching:

I started the day with the tale of Ben McAdoo and a team starting 2-0, making it to the playoff and all the sudden going into a total collapse. As Giants fans we’ve been hurt, we’ve thought we had the guy more than once only to find out he’s a fraud. Truth be told, this is one of the reasons I write these threads, to level set and take things game by game. 2 games in and I can say this, the feeling around the team is that they expect to and believe they can win. This is a big difference from the last few seasons around here. I can honestly look back at the first two weeks and say I don’t think we would have won either game with McAdoo, Shurmur, or Judge coaching.

In each of the 2 games this team has managed to outscore the opponents in the 2nd half (after adjustments are made), overcome areas where the opponent is clearly dominating them, make plays in crucial situations (see the Gary Brightwell 4th and short) and either hold the opposing team in the final 2 minutes or run the ball to burn the clock down. It sounds pedantic but this is what winning football is, not a fancy offense scoring 40 a game, though it’d be nice…, it’s executing in high pressure situations. When it comes to crunch time you saw both Kafka and Wink have a play set up the other team wasn’t ready for. Love’s blitz to kill Carolina’s final drive and the sprint bootleg Kafka called to ice the game were both good play calls. No “curls and hope”, no “prevent defense and hope” like last season.


Conclusion:

It’s a win but it left a lot to be desired. While I can look at our defense and say they played well, I can’t with the offense. Possibly we’ll have a week where the offense carries us, but right now this is a defensive team. That’s fine, defensive teams win ball games too. We’re coming into a game against a Dallas team that doesn’t have its starting QB, but also just beat the Bengals. If we win this game, it would be a huge early season win for the franchise, but some guys are going to have to step up for us to do so. The interior line is going to have to raise their games, someone at the WR core is going to have to establish themselves as “the guy” and getting Azeez/Thibs back can be huge. There’s a path to winning this game via blocking a bit better, holding the Dallas running game at bay and minimizing turnovers. Its Monday night and one of our few primetime games, I’d love to hammer Dallas and put them to bed early.
Great post as usual, Bitey.  
Mike from Ohio : 9/19/2022 9:20 am : link
This is becoming a thread I look forward to each week because I think it cuts through so much of the homerism/negativity that most of the other posts on this site that seem overly emotional one way or the other.

We all knew coming in that this was not a team with high-end talent up and down the roster. Each week will require finding a way to win. I think this coaching staff knows what this team is and isn't and has done a great job putting them in position to win.
As usual Bitey well done  
section125 : 9/19/2022 9:22 am : link
and I agree with you on almost everything. I think you have the perfect analysis for Jones. He is not a franchise QB. He is a game manager with some physical abilities but lacks the confidence to use what he has. He is a bit slow getting the ball out - but it doesn't help his WRs are marginal. If Toney could get his ass in gear, it would help tremendously.

The oline needs to tighten up fast. Feliciano and LG is the weak link as it has been for years.
Good summary  
WillieYoung : 9/19/2022 9:23 am : link
but you should have mentioned Belton's strong play as third safety and if you're going to mention Holmes worst play you should mention his forced fumble on the wide receiver screen which was a heck of a football play.
Giants have done enough to win two games out of two  
JonC : 9/19/2022 9:27 am : link
but, they are clearly lacking in talent at a number of key spots, and now injuries are adding up.

Each week figures to be more of the same; close game, up and down patchy play, keep swinging the bat and try to find a way.

Learning to win is crucial in football, this season is about ramping up the young core of the team, and identifying what needs to be drafted and added moving forward. QB still looks like one of those crucial spots to address, if possible.
re: Jones  
GiantNatty : 9/19/2022 9:30 am : link
it's still hard to gauge this guy, right? You said it - he has absolutely nobody at WR and a line that "did not have a good showing in pass protection." what's a QB supposed to do with that? still win? well guess what, he did...

hard to think of a QB with less options and more dislike around him...
McKinney was superb yesterday  
ajr2456 : 9/19/2022 9:37 am : link
Would love to see what Wink can do with McKinney once we can start generating a pass rush. Safety is position where you can get by with average but if you have an elite one you’re defense can be way more aggressive.

McKinney has a chance to be elite.
The pass to Shep was overthrown because he got held coming  
PatersonPlank : 9/19/2022 9:37 am : link
out of his break. The refs called pass interference on the play and the Giants got a 1st down. IF he wasn't held the pass would have been close
Since DJs negative might have beens are included  
Bob in Newburgh : 9/19/2022 9:38 am : link
We should mention the Toney and James throws that hit them wide open and in stride for rac yardage. Both are in the stats as incompletes.

Disclaimer: I have no clue at this point what I would do about DJ contract.
Biteymax  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/19/2022 9:39 am : link
you say MacAdoo would have lost this game -- correction -- he did
Playing just well enough to win is probably going to be trademark  
Ivan15 : 9/19/2022 9:39 am : link
Of this team. If the lack of depth doesn’t kill them, this may be an 8,9 win team.

Regarding that 2016 team, it had young players at WR and needed some leader to say “this is nuts” regarding the boat trip. The defense was full of free agent veterans with not much leadership there either. If McAdoo said anything about the boat trip, it wasn’t repeated and Reese was trying to hang on to his job, and probably was pretty happy that his moves resulted in a playoff team.
RE: Giants have done enough to win two games out of two  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/19/2022 9:41 am : link
In comment 15822938 JonC said:
Quote:
but, they are clearly lacking in talent at a number of key spots, and now injuries are adding up.

Each week figures to be more of the same; close game, up and down patchy play, keep swinging the bat and try to find a way.

Learning to win is crucial in football, this season is about ramping up the young core of the team, and identifying what needs to be drafted and added moving forward. QB still looks like one of those crucial spots to address, if possible.


WR, WR, WR
and Center
RE: RE: Giants have done enough to win two games out of two  
JonC : 9/19/2022 9:42 am : link
In comment 15822981 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 15822938 JonC said:


Quote:


but, they are clearly lacking in talent at a number of key spots, and now injuries are adding up.

Each week figures to be more of the same; close game, up and down patchy play, keep swinging the bat and try to find a way.

Learning to win is crucial in football, this season is about ramping up the young core of the team, and identifying what needs to be drafted and added moving forward. QB still looks like one of those crucial spots to address, if possible.



WR, WR, WR
and Center


LG, TE, DL, DB, and depth everywhere.
RE: Playing just well enough to win is probably going to be trademark  
ajr2456 : 9/19/2022 9:43 am : link
In comment 15822975 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Of this team. If the lack of depth doesn’t kill them, this may be an 8,9 win team.

Regarding that 2016 team, it had young players at WR and needed some leader to say “this is nuts” regarding the boat trip. The defense was full of free agent veterans with not much leadership there either. If McAdoo said anything about the boat trip, it wasn’t repeated and Reese was trying to hang on to his job, and probably was pretty happy that his moves resulted in a playoff team.


It just wasn’t a good offensive team. They could have stayed home all week watching film and the result probably would have been the same
I don’t think we need as many WRs as people think  
ajr2456 : 9/19/2022 9:45 am : link
Richie James might actually be a solid number 3. Having a legit number 1 receiver who can take over a game at times makes the other WRs jobs a lot easier. Golladay skews the WR room but I think our other wrs are actually fine if they were playing roles relevant to their talent level.
RE: Biteymax  
section125 : 9/19/2022 9:51 am : link
In comment 15822971 gidiefor said:
Quote:
you say MacAdoo would have lost this game -- correction -- he did


Touche...
I love your write ups  
jvm52106 : 9/19/2022 9:51 am : link
but I am taking a different take here.

1) Carolina was coming off game they felt the SHOULD'VE won. They were amped up.
2) Their defense is different than the Titans as they have speed in the back 7 and they have solid middle play to allow their speed players more chances.
3) We were missing Robinson (who could have helped with speed plays underneath), Feliciano is clearly dinged up (leg injury from this summer) and that led to a bit of the showing yesterday and we are missing our top draft pick edge monster and our #2 CB..
4) We won last week and everyone, EVERYONE here was worried about the coming down after an upset win and emotional week 1.

I see a TEAM for the first time in a very long time. Our individual parts by themselves are not overly valuable. Our collective talent is still marginal BUT when they buy in, play together, play SMART (something Judge preached and never delivered on) and their coaching staff actually deploys schemes, formations, plans that seem to have a clear objective then the sum of the of the parts is much more valuable than they would appear on paper.

We will lose games, for sure. But, we are winning and as Jonc said we are learning to win. This team has been compared to the 1997 team and that may be a pretty good comparison. We will most likely be looking for a QB (maybe) next year and Barkley probably will sign elsewhere for a boatload of money (maybe) but, we are seeing signs of our core and they include- both OT's- something a team MUST have.

We all judge the Giants as Giants fans so we look through rose colored and jaded glasses. BUt, look around the league.

I saw a Browns team that has a lot of talent just meltdown with less than 2 minutes left and lose. A lot of it just stupid plays and poor execution.

The Broncos basically did everything stupid they could to leave the Texans in the game.

The Bears- dumb play calls and formations that led to missed plays last night and a loss.

The Cardinals, may have won yesterday but a lot of poor play overall and if not for an unbelievable effort by Murray late they lose again.

My point with those items above is that we finally have a staff that has their team playing smart, not shooting themselves in the foot and seem to be all in sync with what they have (which is a limited amount of weapons) and what they want to accomplish.
On the McCaffrey long gainer  
OlyWABigBlue : 9/19/2022 9:57 am : link
I noticed that Crowder filled or rocketed the right guard zone on the snap, I have no idea whether that was the wrong gap or not because I don't know what the blitz call was. It may have been the right play against the wrong D but we won't know unless the coaches address it. I'm not trying to defend Crowder but we don't know the call in that situation.
Great write-up as usual, Biteymax. I strongly agree that Julian Love  
Ira : 9/19/2022 10:06 am : link
s/b re-signed. He's the perfect example of smart, tough and dependable.
RE: Biteymax  
Biteymax22 : 9/19/2022 10:06 am : link
In comment 15822971 gidiefor said:
Quote:
you say MacAdoo would have lost this game -- correction -- he did


Lol, you're right!
a few things  
TJ : 9/19/2022 10:07 am : link
PattersonPlank is right the overthrow to Shep was the result of PI.
BobinNewburgh is also right there were a couple drops that were squarely on the receivers. And I agree with him I have no clue what I would do about DJ contract either.
I think Barkley got blown up on a pass protection assignment at least once. Hate to see that.
Two of Gano's FGs were longer than the missed one that won us the game last week. Gives me a warm feeling.
Do you ever see a guy wear a knee brace after a game and then play the next week? An honest question I don't know but I'll admit to a bad feeling. Being without our best DL, a starting CB and maybe still our two starting OLB next week is scary.
Great post - few points  
DavidinBMNY : 9/19/2022 10:10 am : link
1) Feliciano isn't 100% healthy and he's dealing with personal trauma but he still is better then the alternative r/n.
2) The Fact they can with this WR group is impressive. Sills?
James? Shep? It's going to take something unexpected for Golladay to get significant snaps, Sills is outplaying him.
Great  
AcidTest : 9/19/2022 10:12 am : link
coaching, especially by Wink, won the game. We have a lot of problems, especially on offense. Jones is erratic, the interior of the OL routinely allows pressure, and we essentially have next to nothing at WR. The offense is basically Barkley, and that won't work long-term. We need other offensive weapons, but probably don't have them right now. And now the injuries are occurring. We have to hope that LW is only out a few weeks and that we can get one or both of KT and AO on the field next week.
RE: I love your write ups  
Biteymax22 : 9/19/2022 10:15 am : link
In comment 15823005 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
but I am taking a different take here.

1) Carolina was coming off game they felt the SHOULD'VE won. They were amped up.
2) Their defense is different than the Titans as they have speed in the back 7 and they have solid middle play to allow their speed players more chances.
3) We were missing Robinson (who could have helped with speed plays underneath), Feliciano is clearly dinged up (leg injury from this summer) and that led to a bit of the showing yesterday and we are missing our top draft pick edge monster and our #2 CB..
4) We won last week and everyone, EVERYONE here was worried about the coming down after an upset win and emotional week 1.

I see a TEAM for the first time in a very long time. Our individual parts by themselves are not overly valuable. Our collective talent is still marginal BUT when they buy in, play together, play SMART (something Judge preached and never delivered on) and their coaching staff actually deploys schemes, formations, plans that seem to have a clear objective then the sum of the of the parts is much more valuable than they would appear on paper.

We will lose games, for sure. But, we are winning and as Jonc said we are learning to win. This team has been compared to the 1997 team and that may be a pretty good comparison. We will most likely be looking for a QB (maybe) next year and Barkley probably will sign elsewhere for a boatload of money (maybe) but, we are seeing signs of our core and they include- both OT's- something a team MUST have.

We all judge the Giants as Giants fans so we look through rose colored and jaded glasses. BUt, look around the league.

I saw a Browns team that has a lot of talent just meltdown with less than 2 minutes left and lose. A lot of it just stupid plays and poor execution.

The Broncos basically did everything stupid they could to leave the Texans in the game.

The Bears- dumb play calls and formations that led to missed plays last night and a loss.

The Cardinals, may have won yesterday but a lot of poor play overall and if not for an unbelievable effort by Murray late they lose again.

My point with those items above is that we finally have a staff that has their team playing smart, not shooting themselves in the foot and seem to be all in sync with what they have (which is a limited amount of weapons) and what they want to accomplish.


Not going to argue a lot of your points and I think in some facets, we're actually agreeing with each other.

As a team, I really don't know what Carolina is. The last 2 years it seems like everyone expects them to take a big step and they wind up just as bad as the Giants have been. They have pieces, especially on defense, but they don't have a QB and it kills them. Mayfield clearly isn't the answer. With all that being said, I think if we executed better yesterday we could have won this one in a blowout, specifically if we put the ball in the end zone on the 2 first forced turn overs.

Where we both seem to agree is this team is performing in crunch time, I feel that it is coaching but don't want to get ahead of myself. As I said in my write up, I've been hurt before and I'm proceeding skeptically.
Dexter Lawrence  
WillVAB : 9/19/2022 10:17 am : link
Had a good game yesterday. He was consistently putting the interior in Baker’s lap.
RE: re: Jones  
Victor in CT : 9/19/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15822947 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
it's still hard to gauge this guy, right? You said it - he has absolutely nobody at WR and a line that "did not have a good showing in pass protection." what's a QB supposed to do with that? still win? well guess what, he did...

hard to think of a QB with less options and more dislike around him...


truth!
I disagree with you about Barkley specifcially yesterday  
Dinger : 9/19/2022 11:04 am : link
He seemed to revert back to a bit of dancing on a number of plays. If he just hits those holes he gains two yards more with momentum. As for needs going into next year, CB1, WR1, MLB, WR2, OG, C, WR3...so not too much. Oh and thats IF we keep DJ around. If there's a better option there all bets are off.
I agree  
Giant John : 9/19/2022 12:08 pm : link
Jones gets a raw deal from many posters on this site.
If Golliday gets his head right  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/19/2022 12:10 pm : link
He can be a real weapon in the redzone. Hope this woke him up
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