I guess I don't understand the dozens of friction post game yesterday. Tons of argumentative posts after a game THE GIANTS WON. The primary point of contention was about Daniel Jones. The odd thing to me is that I think most of us agree that:
-there is probably no circumstance where he is ever a top third QB in the league
-if everything is going right around him, could he be a Ryan Tannehill mediocre QB? Perhaps.
-is he more likely to be between 20-25th best QB in the league? Likely.
-its a low likelihood that he is a NYG after this season; perhaps that means a draft pick or trade for Trubisky or both but in the meantime is DJ and possibly TT if things get rough for DJ
Regardless, we're 2-0.
I'm happy to delete this if deemed an unnecessary DJ post. It just troubled me how the post game thread was so contentious.
It is the only explanation.
It's hard to think of another QB with less talent around him and with more dislike for him.
It is the only explanation.
I suppose so. Side note: keep up the great work, we all appreciate it.
It is the only explanation.
Bingo
We all know the Giants won. Did you expect a thread on "Are you happy or sad the Giants won?"
Fans talk about the game. What went right and what went wrong. That is what a message board is for. If you are upset everyone is not posting what you want them to post, you should probably stay away from places where people speak their minds. If someone rips Jones and you disagree, make a counterpoint or ignore it. If someone praises Jones and you disagree, make a counterpoint or ignore it. Attacking someone personally for holding a different opinion is childish and pathetic.
This desire some seem to have for unanimity in thought is odd and unrealistic.
Says one of the antagonists....geezus.
It is a good post. It is absolutely true. A large number understand Jones is not the answer and we just want him to make plays when he can and protect the ball when he cannot - and hand off to Barkley. There is no real reason the nitpick on what he didn't do - we all know what he cannot do.
The one thing that has happened this year that has not happened in the past, Jones has lead game winning drives twice. And was able to run out the clock yesterday.
It is the only explanation.
LOL
We don’t care where you were drafted or care how much money you make…the best player is going to play.
That seems to be this years mantra and The Giants going forward. It seem like he genuinely means it.
It is the only explanation.
Agree.
Yeah, DJ wasn't great.
But, he did lead his 2nd 4th quarter game winning drive. And not only that - he got the critical first down to run out the clock.
But people feel the need to bitch and complain relentlessly about DJ. For fucks sakes.
We all know the Giants won. Did you expect a thread on "Are you happy or sad the Giants won?"
Fans talk about the game. What went right and what went wrong. That is what a message board is for. If you are upset everyone is not posting what you want them to post, you should probably stay away from places where people speak their minds. If someone rips Jones and you disagree, make a counterpoint or ignore it. If someone praises Jones and you disagree, make a counterpoint or ignore it. Attacking someone personally for holding a different opinion is childish and pathetic.
This desire some seem to have for unanimity in thought is odd and unrealistic.
I completely agree.
Also realize that we are in total rebuild mode with roster across the board that will change dramatically in the next 2 years.
All I wished for this year was a competitive well coached team.I think we have that now.
Enjoy the win after 5 miserable losing seasons.
Go Giants!!!
Why does Jones get this bubble around him?
Why does Jones get this bubble around him?
If it were just criticism, ok.
But the absolute irrational obsession that so many have here and the utter lack of any attempt at objectivity strongly suggests to me that Sy has nailed it.
The hate Jones crowd at all costs seem to lack knowledge of the QB position and offensive football. Feisty bunch though. It's about 7-8 that QB guru group. Be thankful they are not near the front office or on the field coaching imv.
It is the only explanation.
You have posted so much great content over the years that I've really enjoyed, and that you've clearly poured tons of effort into.
Please don't hate me for saying this two sentence post you probably wrote in 10 seconds is my favorite post of yours ever. ;-)
So many NFL games come down the players making plays in 5 or so situations. If your QB can do that consistently, you can win even if his pure numbers are pedestrian.
While may be true, Tyrod Taylor is not doing any better for that. And the skeptics have a problem denying that.
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Are miserable people. There’s another thread where someone said Sheppard has no balls.
Why does Jones get this bubble around him?
If it were just criticism, ok.
But the absolute irrational obsession that so many have here and the utter lack of any attempt at objectivity strongly suggests to me that Sy has nailed it.
It’s a Giants message board, people will discuss Giants football - the good and the bad.
Evan Engram got destroyed worse on this board than Jones ever has.
But it's very unlikely he'll be here next year. The Giants didn't pick up his fifth year option, which means he'll be a FA after this season. It's very unlikely that he plays well enough to justify using the FT on him, which will cost about $32M IIRC. It's even less likely he'll play well enough to get a long-term deal.
the good news is we have Daboll and our own version of Kellen Moore in Kafka, so if there's more to get out of him hopefully we'll see it as the year progresses.
2) People have their own biases and those who don't confirm those biases are automatically the opposite. If you say Jones did anything positive (even if one play) the people who want him gone yesterday will think you are a Jones supporter. Conversely, those who are neutral at best on Jones have been quick to jump on anybody who posts anything negative on Jones as being part of the group I discussed in Point 1
3) Unless you are 100% perfect on every play (and I am not sure that is even good enough for some) there will be hecklers
I will continue to cheer for the team and be positive about Jones, but he has not shown he should have the job next year yet. Here's hoping he does, but I don't see it.
It’s a Giants message board, people will discuss Giants football - the good and the bad.
Evan Engram got destroyed worse on this board than Jones ever has.
When 50% of the QBs Ints came because the ball bounces off Engrams hands, there is legitimate reason for the grief he took.
Answer -They have been practicing together the whole offseason both are healthy and practicing and understand the routes to run.. BTW Sheppard even admitted he ran wrong routes, you think that hasnt happened with Toney?
Fact -DJ is in his 3rd Offense scheme with his 3rd coaching staff WITHOUT any true weapons -minus a rejuvenated Barkley Sills and James would easily be 4th and 5th WRs on a playoff team.
Yet here he is 2 and 0 and the fact is continued to bring the team down the field when they needed it. We know who he is -The guy has guts and is able to keep coming back.. what else do you need.
Is he franchise material? We are learning that he can win. We learned he is unafraid of big moments, and we learned his team respects the heck out of him.. So Lets see with some more practice time w WRs in this scheme with this line.. He also has a coach with Daballs. IE Golladay sitting..
Fact in his 5th year! DJ finally has a middle-rank NFL line and even with some growing pains but he gets more time than he ever had and throws lazers.. Did you not see that pass to James over the middle between 3 defenders on 3rd and forever? Wow big play in the game. The other was the run.. balls
Now i agree he is a little slow recognizing and adjusting to the defense, who wouldnt be? It took Allen 3 yrs to understand the Bills Offense and he got Diggs and very good WRs.. DJ is in his 3rd Offense in 5 yrs with WRs that dont know where they are supposed to be right now.. Let them practice some more and lets see -but I like his mental toughness. You can see he is very smart too.
The D is without any rushers and looks formidable, Wink is badass, I cant wait to see when it all starts coming together.. Finally best ST play in a long time.. Lets Go!!
On the post game thread, I set the over/under on the number of posts you'll make about Jones this week at 100. I bet the farm and true to form, you're already blowing by that number by Monday!
And you're probably proud as a pig in shit to keep telling us!
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
On the post game thread, I set the over/under on the number of posts you'll make about Jones this week at 100. I bet the farm and true to form, you're already blowing by that number by Monday!
And you're probably proud as a pig in shit to keep telling us!
Your obsession with me is flattering, but you’re not really my type. Everyone is allowed to participate in conversations except me, I guess.
It’s cool you choose to ignore the other posts in other threads I’ve made. You are a loser and go back into the hole you crawled into last year.
2) People have their own biases and those who don't confirm those biases are automatically the opposite. If you say Jones did anything positive (even if one play) the people who want him gone yesterday will think you are a Jones supporter. Conversely, those who are neutral at best on Jones have been quick to jump on anybody who posts anything negative on Jones as being part of the group I discussed in Point 1
jones career comp% is 63% (up to 70 this year) and his career ypg is 220. but thanks for playing.
WHat the hell is the rush? Things change so often from one month to the next in the NFL --right now all we should care about is wins and losses and growth.
Jones is completing 70+% of his passes and winning games. He's thrown 3 TDs and ONE INT. He's fine for now. Stop and fucking smell the roses --even if Jones aint the answer, you're all going to have plenty of time to reach that conclusion. Why we treat these debates like a race, it's anything but.
You literally could not have drawn things up any better yet we have so many divided fans fighting it out every minute on shit that hasn't been resolved on the field and won't be until January. Take a breath--we're all NYG fans starving for wins and we are getting them.
OK? And?
Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
But yea, Dak was prolific. And that has nothing to do with anything.
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
jones career comp% is 63% (up to 70 this year) and his career ypg is 220. but thanks for playing.
Now do their touchdowns.
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
OK? And?
Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
But yea, Dak was prolific. And that has nothing to do with anything.
A poster compared him to Dak pre Kellen Moore and I commented they’re not the same okay. What is the problem?
Some of you need chill out, Jesus Christ
I understand the dislike that some have for him but I think he brings a lot of life to this place. Plus I really value intelligence even if it is negative toward some.
This is exactly the problem. Look at the Cowboys running game his first three years (best in the league). Let us know how many pro bowlers were on his OL (Smith, Martin, Frederick). Elliot on top of it. Oh Witten as well.
I can almost guarantee you Dallas was near the very top in average down/distance on 2nd/3rd down. Lots of pith and catch.
It is the only explanation.
Haha Sy! I so agree!
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In comment 15823151 ajr2456 said:
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
jones career comp% is 63% (up to 70 this year) and his career ypg is 220. but thanks for playing.
Now do their touchdowns.
Why do you feel so compelled to even go there? Who cares? Dak is one of the most prolific QBs in the game the last 3 years or so. EVERYONE knows that. Do you really think the avg giants fan doesn't know how much better Dak has been than Jones? It's an odd trait to see a NYG go out of his way to point shit like this out to other NYG fans.
It's also possible that the Giants aren't any better if you swapped Dak in for Jones right now, but I have a feeling this kind of comment is sacrilege to you. That too is a bit odd even if untrue.
I guess fans are wired differently. Some feel the need to rail against a player on their team even when the player did more good than bad lately.
It wasn’t a rout. There are areas where the team can be criticized. Objectivity isn’t negativity.
What a weird attack.
Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
.
I don’t agree with this at all. I thought Jones was the 2nd best QB on the field both games. And I’m not at all enamored of either Baker or Tannehill’s play. But it was better than DJ’s.
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In comment 15823151 ajr2456 said:
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
OK? And?
Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
But yea, Dak was prolific. And that has nothing to do with anything.
A poster compared him to Dak pre Kellen Moore and I commented they’re not the same okay. What is the problem?
Some of you need chill out, Jesus Christ
I don't have a problem at all. It's just odd to see a NYG fan throw cold water on Jones at every single opportunity. It's like a bat signal to you even after a 2 game winning streak in September. Is now really the time?
Seriously, be honest, how will you feel if Jones goes 285 and 3 TDs beating Dallas on MNF? Some of you dig in so deep.
the good news is we have Daboll and our own version of Kellen Moore in Kafka, so if there's more to get out of him hopefully we'll see it as the year progresses.
I'm not sure a lot of people believe Jones is as complete a QB as Tannehill. Same type of QB yes, but I think if you polled NFL GMs and gave them a choice between the two, Tannehill would be close to if not a unanimous choice.
It wasn’t a rout. There are areas where the team can be criticized. Objectivity isn’t negativity.
Of course. But this is different with Jones. I am elling you right now there are fans on this board that do not want Jones to succeed. And not necessarily because of pride, maybe some of that too, but more they are so afraid of Daniel Jones. If he does well? It's a fluke and won't be sustained.
Some fans just refuse to believe this guy can have a solid NFL career. IT's fucking weird. Nothing should be that black and white.
The problem is that those who are exceptional criticizers keep criticizing even in wins looking for any reason to do so. There are very few praisers. It just gets old when certain posters keep looking for the same blemishes even after wins. Of course you can look under the hood. But there is also good under the hood. The problem is those looking under the hood but not acknowledging that despite some leaks around the valve covers, the engine is still running. We almost all understand we have the 1.6 liter Escort motor and not the 426 hemi.
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
OK? And?
Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
There's irony in this such that Tannehill and Mayfield are on their second teams because they weren't good enough to establish a home with the teams that drafted them.
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Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
.
I don’t agree with this at all. I thought Jones was the 2nd best QB on the field both games. And I’m not at all enamored of either Baker or Tannehill’s play. But it was better than DJ’s.
HOW??? Baker was clearly less effective.
I give up.
If Jones throws for 285 and 3 tds I’ll be ecstatic because the Giants are 3-0! And he’ll get a lot of compliments, but let’s see him do it.
What a weird attack.
It's not a attack. Simply reality. Dak and Tannenhill have had very similar circumstances.
Now if you can show how Jones had this level of support maybe you will have some credibility.
Jones first three years the OL had how many pro bowlers? What were the rushing carries and ave.? TE?
Both Tanny and Dak were in lead leading rushing offenses. Not understanding the impact that has on the passing game is not understanding offensive football.
Then if the argument is well QB's overcome that. Fine, who are the WR's to help? How has the PP been?
What a weird attack.
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In comment 15823203 djm said:
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Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
.
I don’t agree with this at all. I thought Jones was the 2nd best QB on the field both games. And I’m not at all enamored of either Baker or Tannehill’s play. But it was better than DJ’s.
HOW??? Baker was clearly less effective.
I give up.
Baker was not good, Jones was better. Hell Jones directed the winning drive, something Baker couldn't do. I consider Jones a mid-table QB, but I'm not trading him for Baker.
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In comment 15823151 ajr2456 said:
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
OK? And?
Ill say it again--Jones just outplayed two QBs making more money than him in Baker and Tannenhill.
There's irony in this such that Tannehill and Mayfield are on their second teams because they weren't good enough to establish a home with the teams that drafted them.
OK fine. HE still beat the first two teams yet we aren't really allowed to acknowledge this without more debate.
Tannenhill was home playing with a better cast and LOST. He didn't get the big TD when needed and he didn't get close enough for a chip shot FG at the end. Want to be fair ok Lets call their matchup even but Jones got the W.
Jones CLEARLY outplayed Baker yesterday. Baker not only had better protection he had better WRs and his D was pressuring the opposing QB all day long. Jones scored more pts and kept the ball away at the end. Advantage Jones. Baker had that game on a platter and couldn't close. Jones clearly did.
There is a lot of push back to criticizing our mediocre QB after a win
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Doesn't seem very neighborly.
Says one of the antagonists....geezus.
It is a good post. It is absolutely true. A large number understand Jones is not the answer and we just want him to make plays when he can and protect the ball when he cannot - and hand off to Barkley. There is no real reason the nitpick on what he didn't do - we all know what he cannot do.
The one thing that has happened this year that has not happened in the past, Jones has lead game winning drives twice. And was able to run out the clock yesterday.
I think it's strange you are lashing out at me personally. I made one innocuous comment on the thread in question, and always avoid attacking people personally. So I'm not guilty of whatever the OP is going on about. If the hope is to have a collegial atmosphere, why would you stoop to attacks? I've always been respectful to you. If you are a mature person you can handle disagreement. We all have opinions, and sometimes we will have a different opinion than you. To label folks who disagree with you as antagonizers seems Stalinesque, if I remember my Russoan history classes correctly.
He has no top WRs, his pass protection has been poor, and a new scheme. He has been below average but did lead two GW drives in the 4th quarters and is 2-0
He has no top WRs, his pass protection has been poor, and a new scheme. He has been below average but did lead two GW drives in the 4th quarters and is 2-0
Right from Sy himself:
I have said is a good QB. That does not change he had outstanding support to start things off his first few years to adjust to the NFL. He capitalized on that and got better. It does not change my point.
You have to help your QB most his first few years. It is SOP. I'm not a big Jones fan. I also am not going to place all the blame on him. His support has been way lackluster (being kind).
There is a lot of push back to criticizing our mediocre QB after a win
Let that marinate a bit.
ON a 3rd and long, up 3 with time winding down, Jones took a scramble UP THE MIDDLE, with Carolina desperate for a stop, and got the first down. This was the biggest play of the game. If you polled BBI before the season and asked what are the odds that Jones closes the game in that scenario, EVERY single one of us, myself included, says Jones doesn't get that first, doesn't close it out and we're punting the ball back.
One game at a time. Things are fine right now. Jones and the offense need to play better, we can't go on winning games an scoring 20 PPG for very long, but it's early. The offense might improve with more time.
I think there is a fire truck out in front of your house right now :)
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Doesn't seem very neighborly.
I think there is a fire truck out in front of your house right now :)
This thread isn't about me. Try to keep up.
Having said all of that, he also hasn’t stunk…. And to speak to the OP’s question, some people are actively rooting against Jones and, by extension, the Giants because of some really bizarre hate issues. I’ll leave my arm chair psychology degree in the drawer. I don’t pretend to get it, but is peculiar and sad behavior.
Admitting the other truth does not negate the one you are clinging to.
Jones may be having trouble processing what he is seeing after the snap
And
Jones (in the past) has been hamstrung with a horrible OL, bad WR group and often injured Barkley
He will never be a top QB in this league but we can say that about most QB starters. We have to find a way to win a championship anyway.
Eli was not a top QB in the regular season. Far from it but we built a team around him. When he had no team around him, we saw what his performances looked like. he lead the league in INTs one year.
The only comparison here is both could not do it on their own. There may be 5 guys on the planet who can and you never know if they guy you are drafting is one of those guys. People thought Trevor Lawrence was.
No one expected Jones to make that 3rd down scramble yesterday. That play tells me he's a different player. Not sure how good, there are 15 games left, a lot will happen, but Jones is growing as a player to this fan.
Jones has contributed but the Giants still have not come full circle.......yet. Whether Jones is here or not the better the fix the parts around the QB the better things will be.
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
On the post game thread, I set the over/under on the number of posts you'll make about Jones this week at 100. I bet the farm and true to form, you're already blowing by that number by Monday!
And you're probably proud as a pig in shit to keep telling us!
I do my best to avoid him but he shows up with his incessant criticism of Jones that is appalling to read. I don’t think he said one good thing about Jonesxafter the game. I’m sure he wants Jones to fail more than the Giants to win.
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In comment 15823151 ajr2456 said:
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
jones career comp% is 63% (up to 70 this year) and his career ypg is 220. but thanks for playing.
Now do their touchdowns.
my god are you dense. the comment was re how he's playing right now in the present. that's obviously just a 2 game sample size but it's all we have to go on with the new regime and in it we've seen Jones improve on prior baselines in ways that have contributed to wins.
the most obvious of those improvements is that they seem to be running an offensive scheme that has led to more points (20ppg) and more touchdowns like his rookie year. you remember that year right? that was one he threw more touchdowns (24) in 12 starts than dak did in any of his first 3 full seasons (aka the pre-KM period before Dallas was willing to commit to him as a franchise qb and his reported 30m aav asking was a punchline).
none of that is to say the jury is back on jones yet or that any of this is predictive - this could be a 2 game fluke and he very well may need to move on to a new team like tannehill did or not continue to improve like dak did. but for right now he's playing like the same type of effective game manager who can make plays to help his team win games as they did/do in tannehill's case. it's also within the realm of possibility that the entire offense improves as they get more comfortable in the new scheme as each of those players did in their 4th years and beyond with better coaching.
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In comment 15823151 ajr2456 said:
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66% of his passes for 230 yards a game. Jones isn’t that.
On the post game thread, I set the over/under on the number of posts you'll make about Jones this week at 100. I bet the farm and true to form, you're already blowing by that number by Monday!
And you're probably proud as a pig in shit to keep telling us!
I do my best to avoid him but he shows up with his incessant criticism of Jones that is appalling to read. I don’t think he said one good thing about Jonesxafter the game. I’m sure he wants Jones to fail more than the Giants to win.
Well you’d be wrong. I have to compliment every single player on the team even if I don’t find their performance anything to write home about? Or is complimenting McKinney, Thomas, the rest of the defense and the coaching staff enough.
Having said all of that, he also hasn’t stunk…. And to speak to the OP’s question, some people are actively rooting against Jones and, by extension, the Giants because of some really bizarre hate issues. I’ll leave my arm chair psychology degree in the drawer. I don’t pretend to get it, but is peculiar and sad behavior.
I have a similar view of things and going back to last year I'd actually say that Jones played better through the first few weeks (especially what he did in Washington and New orleans).
but what's positive in that is that the new offense is so much more functional the results have been better despite him clearly being not as comfortable in the system yet. so what's most encouraging is less jones and more that the coaching staff has gotten a 100 pt QB rating and 20ppg against 2 good defenses despite jones not playing his best. he's got another 15 games left in the audition to see if he can reach the higher level we've seen in glimpses more consistently and what that looks like within this new scheme.
He missed a lot of big throws in this game. You could see it easily from the end zone. The Giants are 2-0 despite of Daniel Jones and is at always fun to root for
The Giants are 2-0 despite Jones. You really struggle with vocabulary, don't you?
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ajr2456 : 9/18/2022 5:30 pm : link : reply
He missed a lot of big throws in this game. You could see it easily from the end zone. The Giants are 2-0 despite of Daniel Jones and is at always fun to root for
The Giants are 2-0 despite Jones. You really struggle with vocabulary, don't you?
When did I say complimented Jones?
Your answer says it all. You refuse to compliment Jones - and defend vigorously that opinion.
Does it take away from your narrative?
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Are miserable people. There’s another thread where someone said Sheppard has no balls.
Why does Jones get this bubble around him?
If it were just criticism, ok.
But the absolute irrational obsession that so many have here and the utter lack of any attempt at objectivity strongly suggests to me that Sy has nailed it.
I don't see it as irrational for fans of a team to be concerned about how the most important position on the team might be handled.
I hope that this current version of Jones is not our quarterback after this season. Is that an offensive thing to say?
I have more than a few Cowboys fans as friends. I'm not sure how that happened lol, but it's true. They almost all want Dak gone and think he is way overrated by the rest of the league.
It’s amazing you could compliment 99 of the 100 people in the organization but if you’re critical about Daniel Jones you’re a miserable moron who wants the Giants to lose.
You can be impressed with how Jones has played thus far that’s perfectly fine, some of us don’t have to be and can say we want to see better play from him.
Try not to edit this post.
And they watch other teams play and recognize that while other QBs are imperfect and do make mistakes, they also often do things Jones has not often shown he can do.
Let that marinate a bit.
ON a 3rd and long, up 3 with time winding down, Jones took a scramble UP THE MIDDLE, with Carolina desperate for a stop, and got the first down. This was the biggest play of the game. If you polled BBI before the season and asked what are the odds that Jones closes the game in that scenario, EVERY single one of us, myself included, says Jones doesn't get that first, doesn't close it out and we're punting the ball back.
One game at a time. Things are fine right now. Jones and the offense need to play better, we can't go on winning games an scoring 20 PPG for very long, but it's early. The offense might improve with more time.
The camera pan to multiple Carolina Panthers sitting on the ground looking so dejected after that run, when the play ended, because they knew that play broke their backs... we haven't witnessed things like that happening in favor of the Giants in quite some time.
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Or just saying Dak is underrated by Giants fans? Not everything is an insult to Jones
I have more than a few Cowboys fans as friends. I'm not sure how that happened lol, but it's true. They almost all want Dak gone and think he is way overrated by the rest of the league.
Do they live on Long Island? I probably grew up with more cowboy and packers fan friends than Giants fans.
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In comment 15823255 ajr2456 said:
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Or just saying Dak is underrated by Giants fans? Not everything is an insult to Jones
I have more than a few Cowboys fans as friends. I'm not sure how that happened lol, but it's true. They almost all want Dak gone and think he is way overrated by the rest of the league.
Do they live on Long Island? I probably grew up with more cowboy and packers fan friends than Giants fans.
Actually one is, but quite a few in NY around Westchester and Poughkeepsie and also a bunch in CT. I always found it baffling... lol.
Haha, OK I laughed I did
You don’t know what people are thinking Mike….you can only base their thoughts on their words…Words speak louder than thoughts.
People have posted here that they hope that the Giants struggle this year so that is more likely that they move on from Daniel Jones after this year is over.
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If you believe that, you are so lost in your own emotions that you should probably take a break from posting. That is an absolutely absurd belief.
You don’t know what people are thinking Mike….you can only base their thoughts on their words…Words speak louder than thoughts.
You think people are spending hours every week on this site because they root against the Giants. Possible, but cmon, not likely. We are all Giants fans here.
I don't "root" for Jones to fail. I acknowledge and accept that he's a below-average NFL quarterback and that the team will be fairly limited so long as he's around. I want him gone because I want to see a team capable of contending for a championship, something Daniel Jones is fundamentally incapable of doing.
And if you're going to laud him for "engineering the game winning drive" yesterday, could you at least be upfront about how unimpressive a drive it actually was? 11 plays to go 37 yards? Most of the yardage came on the ground.
People get on Jones for not putting up big numbers ..... but for some offenses the big numbers just aren't there to be taken.
People get on Jones for not putting up big numbers ..... but for some offenses the big numbers just aren't there to be taken.
it's ok.. he generally doesn't see his open receivers even if he has time and they do get separation, unless it's a first read or scripted read.
There is a lot of push back to criticizing our mediocre QB after a win
That is because the OL and WR's determine their own performance first, by blocking their man or getting open. Those things have to happen FIRST for the QB to have a chance to perform at a high level.
If they don't block and don't get open, the QB will have a bad day. Like Aaron Rogers in week 1:
22 of 34, 195 yards. 64.7% complete. Average 5.7 yards. 0 TD, 1 INT. 67.7 rating.
No one expected Jones to make that 3rd down scramble yesterday. That play tells me he's a different player. Not sure how good, there are 15 games left, a lot will happen, but Jones is growing as a player to this fan.
I would push back on "nobody" expected Jones to make that 3rd down play. Jones, as a rookie, had the sense to run in a TD that won a game in Tampa. His best asset is his legs.
Credit for him for making that decision yesterday instead of forcing a throw.
People get on Jones for not putting up big numbers ..... but for some offenses the big numbers just aren't there to be taken.
At some point these same excuses are going to have to stop, because there will be games this year where the Giants are going to have to go score 30 to win which will require Jones do something he hasn’t really done since probably the Saints game.
Washington, Lions, Ravens, Eagles , Vikings offenses all look to be very good through two weeks. Those might be tough games to win 20-19
I've seen people saying bad things about Jones accused of having an "agenda." I don't think anyone's agenda's are very hidden here. People like myself were taken to task for having an axe to grind with DG and lord knows I had a big ax. But instead of an attitude around here like hey, maybe that was the right ax to have. There seems instead to be a strange undercurrent from many to prove that maybe DG wasn't so terrible.
And here we are with DJ. Mike in Ohio's post yesterday on that thread got me thinking. The Yankees this season were on a tear but still many people were on there talking about trades they needed to make, team weaknesses. Because that is more interesting to discuss. I saw little to no energy wasted telling those people they weren't "enjoying" the wins.
I'm enjoying these wins for sure, I'll be going to my first Giants games in years this year. That doesn't change the fact that I don't like watching Jones as my QB. For no other reason than he doesn't exude confidence. Not sure how many people play Tennis but when you are better than a player you are making them run, dictating the pace looking for your winners. When you are overmatched, you are playing safe and hoping your opponent messes up. Jones had one drive yesterday where he was dictating the pace, and I loved watching that. Sadly more often then not he plays he has no confidence in his ability to hit "winners" and is waiting for the defense to mess up. I do not enjoy watching that type of QB, I do not want to watch him be the Giants QB for years and years after that because I do not see that problem going away.
I like Schoen, I'm starting to love Daboll. I have tons of "positivity" and "negativity" in me ready to roll when the situations arise. I think the friction here comes from hard feelings of Giants fans that have been wrong year after year trying to tell us we were wrong to be down on the team, down on the leadership. They feel like DJ, they want him to take up the mantle of proving all us naysayers wrong.
But that's the difference in the naysayers and the homers. Some people like myself, really enjoy changing their opinion, especially when it is watching the team I love win. So the satisfaction you are aggressively looking for through some kind of grand admission that we were wrong about everything isn't coming. I don't think Jones is a playoff QB, I would be ecstatic if he proves me wrong but he won't. He's the same shaky QB overall even in wins and when his team is handing him easy field position starts. Good on him for coming up big in some of these situations, credit to his teammates, him and the coaches. That's the difference between the "positive" and "negative" people. The DG people dragged their own stinking corpses around threads attacking those with all the data backing up the points they were correctly asserting for years and still come back here with their predictable but totally out of place smug sense of pride. You need not drag me anywhere the day Jones proves he's a playoff QB, I will happily eat my crow. Just don't tell me I'm not being positive enough because I don't think I'm watching that QB especially when you refused to look at very obvious data that the team stunk.
Gee I don't know, maybe the fact that he's had 3 OC's, about 31 different offensive linemen and receivers over the first 3 years of his career...that might have something to do with his struggles.
Crickets.
Gee I don't know, maybe the fact that he's had 3 OC's, about 31 different offensive linemen and receivers over the first 3 years of his career...that might have something to do with his struggles.
If he is that QB why are his coaches coming from high octane offenses limiting him throwing the ball so much and playing so conservatively? You don't even have logic on your side. His own coaching staff doesn't think of him as that type of QB. Why do you?
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In comment 15823438 Mike from Ohio said:
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If you believe that, you are so lost in your own emotions that you should probably take a break from posting. That is an absolutely absurd belief.
You don’t know what people are thinking Mike….you can only base their thoughts on their words…Words speak louder than thoughts.
You think people are spending hours every week on this site because they root against the Giants. Possible, but cmon, not likely. We are all Giants fans here.
Hey….I will be honest here and tell everyone I was rooting for NY to lose toward the end of last season. I had my reasons- fire DG, fire Judge, and get a higher draft pick.
I didn’t care about Glennon leading the team, so I was rooting for the players to play competitively, learn from their mistakes BUT LOSE FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
I ADMIT THIS….if you think this makes me a poor Giant fan, so be it. Honestly I don’t care what you think because I don’t live my life to please you….nevertheless….I have a feeling I wasn’t the only one wishing for this. And I got my results….and very glad about it.
Thus, I do believe there are Giant fans who today are wishing for more losses so that Jones can be replaced by whoever- Willis last year, who knows this year. I don’t call these guys non Giant fans because they do want Giants to win….i know they are Giant fans because they want the Giants to win according to their formula, which is simply…get rid of Jones and we improve our chances to win period. So they believe it is better to lose now with Jones in order to move on from him, which they believe and hope will prove them right.
So no Mike, to say that no true Giant fan does not root for them to lose is illogical and arrogant because you think your standard is the ONE AND ONLY STANDARD……and it’s not. Giant fans can and do root for losses too.
The whole thing is synergistic of course. If we had Dan Marino back there, the pass rush becomes hesitant, the holes are there in the running game and WRs getting open for just a second result in a completion. The fact that the offense looks stuck in mud at times isn’t always directly because of Jones, but he is at the center of the situation and is at some level responsible.
He's had some moments, but he's otherwise been mediocre to poor.
Gee I don't know, maybe the fact that he's had 3 OC's, about 31 different offensive linemen and receivers over the first 3 years of his career...that might have something to do with his struggles.
Ah, yes, that Mt Rushmore of QB passing performances, those 4 great Jones games in 2019. Conquering those bottom feeding defenses. He hasn’t done anything since because of that evil cabal of coaches. But we know he can do that every week, we just know it.
Sterling Shepard - ( New Window )
We've opened the year against the Titans on the road and then a good defense where we were outmatched for a lot of that game. But he threw the ball 34 times yesterday. Including some darts to nobody receivers that ended up being huge plays in the game.
On the play that won us the game, instead of throwing it away or just going down, he saw a lane and ran for the first down. Winning play. You'd think posters would be overjoyed with this. Nope.
The coaching staff is clearly limiting what they ask him to do, we’ll see if feel comfortable asking him to do more this year.
We've opened the year against the Titans on the road and then a good defense where we were outmatched for a lot of that game. But he threw the ball 34 times yesterday. Including some darts to nobody receivers that ended up being huge plays in the game.
On the play that won us the game, instead of throwing it away or just going down, he saw a lane and ran for the first down. Winning play. You'd think posters would be overjoyed with this. Nope.
Some of the lowest yards per passes thrown in the league. Are we really still doing this thing where we make every excuse in the book and ignore the overriding data? Because that's annoying and tiresome
24th in yards per pass thrown - ( New Window )
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we had 25 yards rushing. We also, again had major problems in pass pro. Our WRs do't get much separation.
People get on Jones for not putting up big numbers ..... but for some offenses the big numbers just aren't there to be taken.
it's ok.. he generally doesn't see his open receivers even if he has time and they do get separation, unless it's a first read or scripted read.
how would you ever know what his first read is?
It's remarkable how well the defense is playing with the two primary pass rushers out and the issues at cornerback. If we're handing out compliments, the defense gets 99% of them. Hopefully Williams isn't bay injured, because the story of the season so far has been how well the d-line has played.
The offense has scored 40 points in two games, which over a long enough time frame portends to more losses than wins. There's not a lot to compliment the offense for having done. The offense is giving the defense no margin for error.
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NoGain - so you think Brian Daboll and Mik Kafka are going into the game saying "how can we take the ball away from Daniel today?"
We've opened the year against the Titans on the road and then a good defense where we were outmatched for a lot of that game. But he threw the ball 34 times yesterday. Including some darts to nobody receivers that ended up being huge plays in the game.
On the play that won us the game, instead of throwing it away or just going down, he saw a lane and ran for the first down. Winning play. You'd think posters would be overjoyed with this. Nope.
Some of the lowest yards per passes thrown in the league. Are we really still doing this thing where we make every excuse in the book and ignore the overriding data? Because that's annoying and tiresome 24th in yards per pass thrown - ( New Window )
That ties him with Tom Brady and puts him ahead of guys like Joe Burrow. Any statistic that does that is flawed.
It's remarkable how well the defense is playing with the two primary pass rushers out and the issues at cornerback. If we're handing out compliments, the defense gets 99% of them. Hopefully Williams isn't bay injured, because the story of the season so far has been how well the d-line has played.
The offense has scored 40 points in two games, which over a long enough time frame portends to more losses than wins. There's not a lot to compliment the offense for having done. The offense is giving the defense no margin for error.
100%. The defense has been fantastic. In the modern era NFL, it can’t get much better actually.
The whole thing is synergistic of course. If we had Dan Marino back there, the pass rush becomes hesitant, the holes are there in the running game and WRs getting open for just a second result in a completion. The fact that the offense looks stuck in mud at times isn’t always directly because of Jones, but he is at the center of the situation and is at some level responsible.
I’ve listen to Coach Daboll and he doesn’t say what you’re saying, so guess what?……..I hit the delete button on you, not on the coach. He says Jones has done very well both games. I think he knows more than most, if not all of us, don’t you think?
And I know what your rebuttal is- “he has to say good things about his players, he’s the coach”…….oh really…..does he say those words about every player? Did he come out and say anyone on the OL has played very well from yesterday? Did he say that about any of the WRs? I don’t think Dabs throws out unwarranted compliments…you have to earn them.
My opinion is- of course Daniel was not perfect yesterday, but he’s learning, getting better (no turnovers down from 2), and he does make many clutch plays that help us win too. Go watch the 3rd and 4th quarter again of both games for my evidence.
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In comment 15823509 ryanmkeane said:
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NoGain - so you think Brian Daboll and Mik Kafka are going into the game saying "how can we take the ball away from Daniel today?"
We've opened the year against the Titans on the road and then a good defense where we were outmatched for a lot of that game. But he threw the ball 34 times yesterday. Including some darts to nobody receivers that ended up being huge plays in the game.
On the play that won us the game, instead of throwing it away or just going down, he saw a lane and ran for the first down. Winning play. You'd think posters would be overjoyed with this. Nope.
Some of the lowest yards per passes thrown in the league. Are we really still doing this thing where we make every excuse in the book and ignore the overriding data? Because that's annoying and tiresome 24th in yards per pass thrown - ( New Window )
That ties him with Tom Brady and puts him ahead of guys like Joe Burrow. Any statistic that does that is flawed.
Agree. Any stat that ranks Tua and Mac Jones ahead of Brady and Burrow is a joke. Each game is different including are they playing from behind (or well behind), do they have a running game, etc. Plus in defense of Jones very few teams have a player like Barkley running the ball.
Just sayin'
Last season....
He has made winning plays in the 4th Q on multiple drives to win us 2 games that we weren't as talented as the other team.
You think our defense over the last 19 games has been better than subpar? There are three guys on DEF (who are currently playing) that I would keep over others at their positions throughout the league: Jackson, McKinney, and Lawrence. No one else currently starting is anything more than JAG except maybe Love. And this DEF is a major step up from last season. Do you disagree?
100%. The defense has been fantastic. In the modern era NFL, it can’t get much better actually.
The pass protection and issues at WR don't seem like quickly resolved issues. There's not a bunch of talent waiting in the wings. I'm neutral to bearish on Jones. I think the entire offense outside of Thomas and Barkley is bleh.
But I think the Giants have the makings of a very good defense this year. They have two quality pass rushers ready to return. That's serious gas to add to this group.
It's remarkable how well the defense is playing with the two primary pass rushers out and the issues at cornerback. If we're handing out compliments, the defense gets 99% of them. Hopefully Williams isn't bay injured, because the story of the season so far has been how well the d-line has played.
The offense has scored 40 points in two games, which over a long enough time frame portends to more losses than wins. There's not a lot to compliment the offense for having done. The offense is giving the defense no margin for error.
they're currently 16th in ppg, so wouldn't that project out to being about .500 even if the defense regressed a little bit? they are 9th in points allowed so 'completely standing on its' head' seems hyperbolic. they let ten go right down the field for the potentially game winning kick and had it gone in they'd be 1-1 (which is probably what they realistically deserve to be). it's impressive coaching given the injuries but also a byproduct of some matchups that have played to their strengths stopping the run.
in terms of the offense i think everyone is missing the forrest from the trees. if 20ppg is the baseline even when the offense is scuffling with james/sills leading them in receiving, that may imply upside beyond most of what was predicted (and nobody predicted 2-0 so implying things have only played out as expected is also a distortion). that's not a point specific to jones but it is inclusive of him.
Just sayin'
The defense has averaged 16 points per game in his last seven starts, including two single digit efforts. That would be best in the league in the 2021 season. The offense has averaged 18.3 points per game, which would be about sixth worst.
They have a legitimate shot to win the division, but are going to need the offense to step up big time to do that
They won, so the QB did his job is always going to be the loud reply to the discourse that offense could be better.
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Subpar defense?
You think our defense over the last 19 games has been better than subpar? There are three guys on DEF (who are currently playing) that I would keep over others at their positions throughout the league: Jackson, McKinney, and Lawrence. No one else currently starting is anything more than JAG except maybe Love. And this DEF is a major step up from last season. Do you disagree?
I think the Giants defense has played fantastic the first two games, so I'm not sure how to judge the talent of individuals on the roster right now.
And I think it's a difficult exercise to try and make much out of how a team with a major facelift and a different staff compares year-over-year. So what Jones did in a sampling of games over that period doesn't seem super indicative of anything.
All I know is the defense played lights out the last two games and the offense didn't.
Just sayin'
I disagree so much with this. The defense has been excellent and has bailed out the offense numerous times. Worst OL in the league? Come on. Jones has one of the best left tackles in the NFL.
I want to see more of the quarterback that we saw on the touchdown drive when the game was about to get away from the Giants. That was a quarterback playing with confidence, that s whom I believe he can be, that s why I m a believer.
As to the negativity always found in game threads, to each their own. I choose to stay away.
There might be a poster somewhere that would rather be correct about Jones than see the Giants win, but have to believe that is not the case with the overwhelming majority of Daniel s detractors
Maybe it's the match-ups, so I'm not predicting anything.
But I think it's no exaggeration, in a new system, with the corners and pass rushers they've started, two be a top 10 defense at this early juncture is phenomenal.
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In comment 15823541 christian said:
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Subpar defense?
You think our defense over the last 19 games has been better than subpar? There are three guys on DEF (who are currently playing) that I would keep over others at their positions throughout the league: Jackson, McKinney, and Lawrence. No one else currently starting is anything more than JAG except maybe Love. And this DEF is a major step up from last season. Do you disagree?
I think the Giants defense has played fantastic the first two games, so I'm not sure how to judge the talent of individuals on the roster right now.
And I think it's a difficult exercise to try and make much out of how a team with a major facelift and a different staff compares year-over-year. So what Jones did in a sampling of games over that period doesn't seem super indicative of anything.
All I know is the defense played lights out the last two games and the offense didn't.
Christian, we are in agreement. The DEF has played very well, no argument here. I also agree that the O is struggling, but from my perspective (flawed as it is), I put much of the onus on the O'line and what Shep said about the WRs not on task with their reads. Sure, Jones has made some bad throws. All QBs do. I think he's playing well, and certainly within himself given the constraints around him.
I feel that you can't say in one breath that what the QB did over a period isn't indicative of anything unless you say the same about the DEF, no?
We're all happy the Giants won and the games have certainly (finally) been fun to watch, but IMO, the QB play has been not been good.
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and 10 and 9 in his last 19. With arguably the worst O'line in the league, injured playmakers galore, and a subpar defense.
Just sayin'
I disagree so much with this. The defense has been excellent and has bailed out the offense numerous times. Worst OL in the league? Come on. Jones has one of the best left tackles in the NFL.
Over the past 19 games, this defense has been mostly horrible. To say otherwise is disingenuous.
As for the LOT: You're going to seriously defend this Oline over the last 19 games because 1 position on the line is pro bowl worthy? Do we ignore the 4 other positions? The line was putrid last season. Downright putrid. It's been a mixed bag this year, and they've managed to win two games.
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The offense has scored 40 points in two games, which over a long enough time frame portends to more losses than wins. There's not a lot to compliment the offense for having done. The offense is giving the defense no margin for error.
100%. The defense has been fantastic. In the modern era NFL, it can’t get much better actually.
The pass protection and issues at WR don't seem like quickly resolved issues. There's not a bunch of talent waiting in the wings. I'm neutral to bearish on Jones. I think the entire offense outside of Thomas and Barkley is bleh.
But I think the Giants have the makings of a very good defense this year. They have two quality pass rushers ready to return. That's serious gas to add to this group.
Damn Christian. I'm agreeing with you again, WTH is going on here? lol. Only difference is I'm neutral to a little more than slightly bullish on DJ due to OL and WR, and scheme absorption. You could see DJ having to motion and reline WRs multiple times the first two games. The more on the same page they become the more fluid the offense will look (IMO). The interior needs to be better pass blocking and hopefully we see an uptick there.
It’s amazing you could compliment 99 of the 100 people in the organization but if you’re critical about Daniel Jones you’re a miserable moron who wants the Giants to lose.
You can be impressed with how Jones has played thus far that’s perfectly fine, some of us don’t have to be and can say we want to see better play from him.
Try not to edit this post.
Ha, ajr with a little funny at the end his comment about altering posts…
Ok, I give up. He's 10-9 in his last 19, 5-2 in his last 7, but they won in spite of him and all the other loses are ALL HIS FAULT.
Do I have the fucking group-think narrative and talking points down now?
This year is just a practice year anyway when we are sweating out all the Gettleman toxins. Maybe we win a few games along the way and make things a little interesting.
Its had to imagine that anyone who wants the Giants to be good would want Jones here past this year. There is almost zero chance to be really good with a Jones level QB. So we just suck it up this year, watch more robotic, low-octane, mistake-prone QB play and hopefully start with a guy who has more upside next year.
People seem to like Jones for reasons that have nothing to do with how he plays football. To each their own, I suppose, but I like my football players to be good at football.
(note, he was pretty good in high school and probably middle school)
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If you believe that, you are so lost in your own emotions that you should probably take a break from posting. That is an absolutely absurd belief.
You don’t know what people are thinking Mike….you can only base their thoughts on their words…Words speak louder than thoughts.
I don't believe people spend hour after hour on a message board pretending to be fans of a team they don't root for. That makes zero sense. What is actually happening is many are misinterpreting what is being said.
Thinking Daniel Jones is not a good QB IS NOT the same as rooting against the Giants. If you think it is, that is on you.
I've seen people saying bad things about Jones accused of having an "agenda." I don't think anyone's agenda's are very hidden here. People like myself were taken to task for having an axe to grind with DG and lord knows I had a big ax. But instead of an attitude around here like hey, maybe that was the right ax to have. There seems instead to be a strange undercurrent from many to prove that maybe DG wasn't so terrible.
And here we are with DJ. Mike in Ohio's post yesterday on that thread got me thinking. The Yankees this season were on a tear but still many people were on there talking about trades they needed to make, team weaknesses. Because that is more interesting to discuss. I saw little to no energy wasted telling those people they weren't "enjoying" the wins.
I'm enjoying these wins for sure, I'll be going to my first Giants games in years this year. That doesn't change the fact that I don't like watching Jones as my QB. For no other reason than he doesn't exude confidence. Not sure how many people play Tennis but when you are better than a player you are making them run, dictating the pace looking for your winners. When you are overmatched, you are playing safe and hoping your opponent messes up. Jones had one drive yesterday where he was dictating the pace, and I loved watching that. Sadly more often then not he plays he has no confidence in his ability to hit "winners" and is waiting for the defense to mess up. I do not enjoy watching that type of QB, I do not want to watch him be the Giants QB for years and years after that because I do not see that problem going away.
I like Schoen, I'm starting to love Daboll. I have tons of "positivity" and "negativity" in me ready to roll when the situations arise. I think the friction here comes from hard feelings of Giants fans that have been wrong year after year trying to tell us we were wrong to be down on the team, down on the leadership. They feel like DJ, they want him to take up the mantle of proving all us naysayers wrong.
But that's the difference in the naysayers and the homers. Some people like myself, really enjoy changing their opinion, especially when it is watching the team I love win. So the satisfaction you are aggressively looking for through some kind of grand admission that we were wrong about everything isn't coming. I don't think Jones is a playoff QB, I would be ecstatic if he proves me wrong but he won't. He's the same shaky QB overall even in wins and when his team is handing him easy field position starts. Good on him for coming up big in some of these situations, credit to his teammates, him and the coaches. That's the difference between the "positive" and "negative" people. The DG people dragged their own stinking corpses around threads attacking those with all the data backing up the points they were correctly asserting for years and still come back here with their predictable but totally out of place smug sense of pride. You need not drag me anywhere the day Jones proves he's a playoff QB, I will happily eat my crow. Just don't tell me I'm not being positive enough because I don't think I'm watching that QB especially when you refused to look at very obvious data that the team stunk.
Excellent post.
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and 10 and 9 in his last 19. With arguably the worst O'line in the league, injured playmakers galore, and a subpar defense.
Just sayin'
The defense has averaged 16 points per game in his last seven starts, including two single digit efforts. That would be best in the league in the 2021 season. The offense has averaged 18.3 points per game, which would be about sixth worst.
How cus u hate the Ginats so much?
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In comment 15823538 rnargi said:
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and 10 and 9 in his last 19. With arguably the worst O'line in the league, injured playmakers galore, and a subpar defense.
Just sayin'
The defense has averaged 16 points per game in his last seven starts, including two single digit efforts. That would be best in the league in the 2021 season. The offense has averaged 18.3 points per game, which would be about sixth worst.
How cus u hate the Ginats so much?
Mostly because you're a fan, Mike!
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In comment 15823555 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 15823538 rnargi said:
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and 10 and 9 in his last 19. With arguably the worst O'line in the league, injured playmakers galore, and a subpar defense.
Just sayin'
The defense has averaged 16 points per game in his last seven starts, including two single digit efforts. That would be best in the league in the 2021 season. The offense has averaged 18.3 points per game, which would be about sixth worst.
How cus u hate the Ginats so much?
Mostly because you're a fan, Mike!
That's fair.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
Just sayin'
Can we please stop attributing wins to quarterbacks (along with goalies and pitchers)? We have enough stats to assess their performance without bringing in variables they cannot control.
2. He doesn’t make quick decisions, a lot of times it seems that he’s a beat too late on making the throw. He’ll have a guy that is open, and instead of trusting the read, holds on to the ball and has to force a tougher throw than it otherwise should have been.
3. He plays like he’s afraid to make a mistake, which is ironic because it leads to him making a good deal of them. I think this is related to number 2, he’ll see a guy is open but doesn’t make the throw right away because he needs to be absolutely sure it’s the right play before he pulls the trigger.
4. When there is a pass rush, he starts looking at the rush instead of keeping his eyes downfield to make a play. Once things break down he seems to quick to bail on the throw and instead is looking to run.
A lot of these are tendencies you’d expect to see in a rookie quarterback. It’s pretty alarming that we still see them from Jones in year 4.
Again, I'm not sure who these groups are (we really need rosters) The DG group, the anti-DG group, the DJ fan club, the non-DJ fan club.
From what I have seen over the years both sides are quite guilty of ruining threads, being rude and quite disrespectful.
At some point when an uncivilized fight is going on some are going to have to be the bigger person and put an end to it all instead of exacting revenge.
It's interesting, a poster early said "can't we all just get along" jokingly. That to me should be the goal, getting along does not mean agreeing, it just means being respectful of one another while passing when one has a chance at vengeance.
Yep, I'm guilty too.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
DG is a proxy for themselves. For all the "you must be miserable to talk negatively about the Giants like this" it's projection. Reading people attacking the Giants hurt people with either direct connections or an extreme attachment to the Giants org. They were the miserable ones not being able to fully actualize the Giants pride that is probably important to their identities, sadly. We've seen them every year itching for any excuse to try to lash out against the ones hurting their Giants pride. They never really saw what was going on very clearly through their blue tinted glasses so why would you expect them to start now? Lol.
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What I don't get is the crowd defending Gettleman still.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
DG is a proxy for themselves. For all the "you must be miserable to talk negatively about the Giants like this" it's projection. Reading people attacking the Giants hurt people with either direct connections or an extreme attachment to the Giants org. They were the miserable ones not being able to fully actualize the Giants pride that is probably important to their identities, sadly. We've seen them every year itching for any excuse to try to lash out against the ones hurting their Giants pride. They never really saw what was going on very clearly through their blue tinted glasses so why would you expect them to start now? Lol.
I fear we really could get Jones at $25M / per if the Giants go to the playoffs playing exactly like he has the first two games.
I'd sign up for any outcome with Barkley, including a longer term deal, if I could go to bed knowing that Jones outcome wasn't going to happen.
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In comment 15822973 Producer said:
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Doesn't seem very neighborly.
Says one of the antagonists....geezus.
It is a good post. It is absolutely true. A large number understand Jones is not the answer and we just want him to make plays when he can and protect the ball when he cannot - and hand off to Barkley. There is no real reason the nitpick on what he didn't do - we all know what he cannot do.
The one thing that has happened this year that has not happened in the past, Jones has lead game winning drives twice. And was able to run out the clock yesterday.
I think it's strange you are lashing out at me personally. I made one innocuous comment on the thread in question, and always avoid attacking people personally. So I'm not guilty of whatever the OP is going on about. If the hope is to have a collegial atmosphere, why would you stoop to attacks? I've always been respectful to you. If you are a mature person you can handle disagreement. We all have opinions, and sometimes we will have a different opinion than you. To label folks who disagree with you as antagonizers seems Stalinesque, if I remember my Russoan history classes correctly.
This dude just said he avoids attacking people personally. Same guy who called me Mrs. Jones for saying DJ was playing just as good as Mayfield in the game thread. You're such a poser
2. He doesn’t make quick decisions, a lot of times it seems that he’s a beat too late on making the throw. He’ll have a guy that is open, and instead of trusting the read, holds on to the ball and has to force a tougher throw than it otherwise should have been.
3. He plays like he’s afraid to make a mistake, which is ironic because it leads to him making a good deal of them. I think this is related to number 2, he’ll see a guy is open but doesn’t make the throw right away because he needs to be absolutely sure it’s the right play before he pulls the trigger.
4. When there is a pass rush, he starts looking at the rush instead of keeping his eyes downfield to make a play. Once things break down he seems to quick to bail on the throw and instead is looking to run.
A lot of these are tendencies you’d expect to see in a rookie quarterback. It’s pretty alarming that we still see them from Jones in year 4.
This pretty much nicely summarizes DJ at this point. He's not going to put the team on his back to win games or wow you with any statistics/lead a high octane, highly rated offense. He's performing adequately at the limited tasks assigned to him by Daboll, who appears to have him on a tight leash. What I'm witnessing seems very comparative to what Harbaugh did with Alex Smith in 2011. Limit the offense, his decision making, and do your best to cover the flaws. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jones finish the year with 2011 style Alex Smith numbers/season.
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In comment 15823697 Matt M. said:
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What I don't get is the crowd defending Gettleman still.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
DG is a proxy for themselves. For all the "you must be miserable to talk negatively about the Giants like this" it's projection. Reading people attacking the Giants hurt people with either direct connections or an extreme attachment to the Giants org. They were the miserable ones not being able to fully actualize the Giants pride that is probably important to their identities, sadly. We've seen them every year itching for any excuse to try to lash out against the ones hurting their Giants pride. They never really saw what was going on very clearly through their blue tinted glasses so why would you expect them to start now? Lol.
The crazy part, that will blow their minds, is that both of those guys could have the best seasons of their careers and not be brought back.
While those posts exist, I doubt that POV makes up even 1% of the active posters on this site. There are always minority extreme views shared by almost no one else.
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they are 9th in points allowed so 'completely standing on its' head' seems hyperbolic. they let ten go right down the field for the potentially game winning kick and had it gone in they'd be 1-1 (which is probably what they realistically deserve to be). it's impressive coaching given the injuries but also a byproduct of some matchups that have played to their strengths stopping the run.
Maybe it's the match-ups, so I'm not predicting anything.
But I think it's no exaggeration, in a new system, with the corners and pass rushers they've started, two be a top 10 defense at this early juncture is phenomenal.
to be 16th in ppg in a new system with sills/james as the 2 leading receivers and some OL going through growing pains is also pretty good no?
Again, read what Sy said. There could be a handful of QB prospects better than him and cheaper. I take it you will be pretty disappointed once Schoen & Daboll draft a QB in the first round and likely trade up to get one.
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
Why do you keep pushing this silly statement in the middle of Sept?
If Schoen and Daboll thought the same then they would have most certainly exercised Jones 5th year option. But they didn’t so your take has no logic unless you feel they just forgot to do it…
And if we are that concerned about replacing Jones production, we already have Taylor and lots of backup caliber QBs come available every year, guys like Trubisky, Marita, Mayfield, Bridgewater, Brissett, Minster, etc
Daniel Jones himself wasn’t projected as a first rounder on September 19th
maybe I am naive, but what is there to praise him for?
the fact that the Panthers didn't catch the three gimme interceptions he nearly threw yesterday? the fact that he hasn't single-handedly blown either of the first two games? the fact that he threw a single TD pass in the red zone?
I have no problem giving credit where it's due, but DJ plays like Elvis Grbac for a couple of weeks and all of the sudden he isn't shit anymore?
(Disclaimer that he was pretty good in high school, and possibly middle school)
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In comment 15823554 Eric on Li said:
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they are 9th in points allowed so 'completely standing on its' head' seems hyperbolic. they let ten go right down the field for the potentially game winning kick and had it gone in they'd be 1-1 (which is probably what they realistically deserve to be). it's impressive coaching given the injuries but also a byproduct of some matchups that have played to their strengths stopping the run.
Maybe it's the match-ups, so I'm not predicting anything.
But I think it's no exaggeration, in a new system, with the corners and pass rushers they've started, two be a top 10 defense at this early juncture is phenomenal.
to be 16th in ppg in a new system with sills/james as the 2 leading receivers and some OL going through growing pains is also pretty good no?
I think two games in rankings are a bad metric.
Last year on a 17 game season, 18 PPG on defense is a top 3 defense and 20 PPG is a bottom third offense.
So my guess is in a little more context, if both groups keep it up the Giants have a great defense and a bad offense.
maybe I am naive, but what is there to praise him for?
the fact that the Panthers didn't catch the three gimme interceptions he nearly threw yesterday? the fact that he hasn't single-handedly blown either of the first two games? the fact that he threw a single TD pass in the red zone?
I have no problem giving credit where it's due, but DJ plays like Elvis Grbac for a couple of weeks and all of the sudden he isn't shit anymore?
I think most gave him credit for some big plays in the 4th. That should have been interception might have been very difficult to overcome. Lucky.
They had 25 yards rushing to start the 4th QTR? What exactly and who was going to help him make plays during those first three QTR's? Were there WR's open as Jones was comfortable in the pocket processing that he missed consistently?
The offense has been brutal. Jones struggles tremendously with getting the team into the end zone.
I just don’t understand how so many fans are content with this level of QB play.
That's just goofy. Everyone knows that literally every QB on every team can throw TD passes. Everyone also knows that league history is replete with QBs (and several other positions) who've had monster games a few times that are greatly outnumbered by average or poor games.
I doubt people would think it's controversial to say Josh Freeman, Trubisky, and Mike White weren't and aren't elite-caliber QBs and yet they managed to have a monster game or two.
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as well as Baker yesterday, the Giants would have lost. Baker was a first round pick too. Breaking news: There are very few QB's in the league that can claim to be the best. Top tier QB's are few and far between. The chances of the Giants drafting a QB that is better than Jones are probably 1 in 5 or less. They don't grow on trees.
The offense has been brutal. Jones struggles tremendously with getting the team into the end zone.
I just don’t understand how so many fans are content with this level of QB play.
I think some of us realize it's not just QB play.
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
It's nice when someone pops into a thread like this and can throw a zinger in like that. Thanks, Snablats!
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as well as Baker yesterday, the Giants would have lost. Baker was a first round pick too. Breaking news: There are very few QB's in the league that can claim to be the best. Top tier QB's are few and far between. The chances of the Giants drafting a QB that is better than Jones are probably 1 in 5 or less. They don't grow on trees.
The offense has been brutal. Jones struggles tremendously with getting the team into the end zone.
I just don’t understand how so many fans are content with this level of QB play.
I would not say that people are content with this level of QB play so much as there has been a lot of worse QB performances so far this year from QB's better than Jones. Indy with Matt Ryan and Jonathan Taylor TIE a crappy Houston team and get blanked by Jacksonville.
Oddly, very few of the QBs out of college ever do a damn thing. I agree that a fresh approach is likely to be needed next spring. There are a lot of names out there at QB, but usually by mid-NCAA season, half have been exposed.
If they pick middle of the pack, any QB left will likely not be an improvement, but will be cheaper. They may be better off taking a CB, OL, DE or WR.
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
The point is that next year is not the last year ever. Do you guys think the Giants are so cursed that they can never get a good starting QB ever again?
All those QBs in their primes were better than Jones, with the exception of Mills but it’s too early to tell if he’ll be better than Jones. That’s nearly a third of the starting QBs.
All those QBs in their primes were better than Jones, with the exception of Mills but it’s too early to tell if he’ll be better than Jones. That’s nearly a third of the starting QBs.
Lamar, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Flacco...The others are about the same as Jones. Dak, has been with a good team, but cannot get out of his way in the playoffs - but yes better in season.
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In comment 15823739 Snablats said:
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
So you know the ceiling of every college QB playing in the game today and that no one will ever outpace what Jones showed yesterday?
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In comment 15823756 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15823739 Snablats said:
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
So you know the ceiling of every college QB playing in the game today and that no one will ever outpace what Jones showed yesterday?
There are a few who have a higher season and are eligible for 2023 Draft, but (1) who knows if any will fall into an area the Giants can reasonably obtain that pick and (2) many fail to reach their potential.
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Lamar went at the end of the first. Mahomes went 10th. Dak went 4th round. Wilson went 75th, Rodgers 24th. Carr went 36th. Cousins 102. Hurts 53. Flacco 18th. Davis Mills 67th.
All those QBs in their primes were better than Jones, with the exception of Mills but it’s too early to tell if he’ll be better than Jones. That’s nearly a third of the starting QBs.
Lamar, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Flacco...The others are about the same as Jones. Dak, has been with a good team, but cannot get out of his way in the playoffs - but yes better in season.
Cousins is as good as Jones? Cousins the last 6 years has averaged over 4000 yards, 30 tds, 10 interceptions while completing 67% of his passes. Maybe in terms of throwing Hurts and Jones are the same but Hurts scored points as 10x more dangerous with his legs.
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In comment 15823897 Snablats said:
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In comment 15823756 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15823739 Snablats said:
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
So you know the ceiling of every college QB playing in the game today and that no one will ever outpace what Jones showed yesterday?
There are a few who have a higher season and are eligible for 2023 Draft, but (1) who knows if any will fall into an area the Giants can reasonably obtain that pick and (2) many fail to reach their potential.
Look forward to this years Willis (pick 5 for the Giants?. Quite a few of the QB gurus are on this thread as they are on most related to Jones and QB's in general.
Daboll & Schoen are going to pull the trigger on a qb at some point. Jones is a stopgap.
So long as he doesn’t lose us games with turnovers i’m ok with him.
Jones ceiling is that same class of QB as Darnold, Baker, and Goff. They're all on different teams for a reason. Just hope NYG management doesn't make the same mistake LAR did with Goff.
Daboll & Schoen are going to pull the trigger on a qb at some point. Jones is a stopgap.
So long as he doesn’t lose us games with turnovers i’m ok with him.
Great post.
Not having unconditional support for Daniel Jones is far more rooted in wanting the Giants to be great, not just good enough to win.
Carr too. He’s produced and carried some average raiders rosters.
Daboll & Schoen are going to pull the trigger on a qb at some point. Jones is a stopgap.
So long as he doesn’t lose us games with turnovers i’m ok with him.
Yep.
Wonder if Daboll had any thoughts of pulling him before he got them into the end zone on the Bellinger throw…
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And thats ok for now. I don’t think he stinks, I don’t think he’s great. He’s had a shit sandwich to work with since he got here. With that said, his vision and ability to maneuver the pocket isn’t very good. When he feels pressure he almost never slides and resets, he leaves the pocket. Did the Giants ruin him? They certainly didn’t help but these flaws were reported even before he was drafted.
Daboll & Schoen are going to pull the trigger on a qb at some point. Jones is a stopgap.
So long as he doesn’t lose us games with turnovers i’m ok with him.
Yep.
Wonder if Daboll had any thoughts of pulling him before he got them into the end zone on the Bellinger throw…
Had most time to throw per PFF, with a 51.5 grade
So who? None of the guys named on QB lists look anything like Lamar (who is 1-3 in the playoffs), Mahomes, Rodgers (who was picked 20 years ago)
So the hope is someone from somewhere whom no one has heard of yet - and this is for next season, not 5 years from now
But this mystery QB is for sure going to be much better than Jones next season
So who? None of the guys named on QB lists look anything like Lamar (who is 1-3 in the playoffs), Mahomes, Rodgers (who was picked 20 years ago)
So the hope is someone from somewhere whom no one has heard of yet - and this is for next season, not 5 years from now
But this mystery QB is for sure going to be much better than Jones next season
Re Yound, I'd be damned before I pick a QB who probably weighs 185 pounds. He'll last 2 weeks in the NFL
But you answered the question about Jones last January, even though an answer isnt needed until the end of April
You say over and over, since January, that the Giants need to get rid of Jones because there are better QBs to be had. You cant name any, but you know they are out there so the Giants have to get rid of Jones
No apologies or explanations are needed for this take. If you don't have the necessary faculties to absorb the years of objective evidence, it says much more about you than it does about me.
If we cut him tomorrow I have zero fears that he goes somewhere else and becomes Steve Young.
ZERO.
He is not awful because of above average straight line speed and a plus plus work ethic. Nothing else he has is elite.
His accuracy is adequate.
His arm will get the job done.
His processing is a little slow.
His pocket awareness is still less than average.
Above average with pre snap reads(maybe).
Vision(see the whole field) average.
I don't know why anyone is defending him to be honest.
So far this year Daniel Jones has been adequate.
In game 1 he did enough not to lose.
In game 2, he made important clutch throws when we had to have them. While he has had statistically better games, this was his best game as a NYG for me. He did leave plays out there, every QB does. This was more than a solid performance.
It wasn't 38-35 and he put the team on his back so spare me the superlatives.
He deserves praise and I am saying so.
If Daniel Jones keeps putting good games into history I may change my take based on the objective evidence. Until then, I am critic because I want a QB with a higher ceiling.
Now.
Morons.
Stop with the the Strawman.
"People here want to get rid of Jones at all costs"
They want to get rid of him because his production and availability have been poor.
Costs?
It is ridiculous and you are embarrassing yourself.
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The draft isn’t until the end of April. We don’t have to answer that question on September 19th
But you answered the question about Jones last January, even though an answer isnt needed until the end of April
You say over and over, since January, that the Giants need to get rid of Jones because there are better QBs to be had. You cant name any, but you know they are out there so the Giants have to get rid of Jones
Daniel Jones has put forth enough of a report card a decision can be made on him. Most of the prospects are only starting their third season. Your post is nonsense
Actually, yes. There were WRs open all over the field throughout the game that Jones missed/didn’t see/didn’t throw to despite taking an above average amount of time (as usual) to get rid of the ball.
I suppose I should be happy that he didn’t fumble this week despite causing sacks with his inability to progress through his reads. Way to go?
The dude stinks. Always has.
@DanSchneierNFL
Great blitz pickup by Barkley, nice play call off play action and route combos by Kafka, but Daniel Jones doesn't come close to reading Toney on the deep over (who seems open forever) for what would be a chunk gain. With KT and that much space, that could easily be a TD #Giants
This is so bad. Yet, the Giants supposedly will not be able to find someone better. Watch the video.
Link - ( New Window )
Tons and tons of little things that are hard to quantify or even notice sometimes. But good QBs do them well and it adds up. Bad QBs don't. They miss opportunities, they don't extend plays, they don't extend drives. That's what we've been living with for 4 years now and hopefully not a minute beyond the end of this season.
It has to be reported on and captured on video when a QB is missing open receivers.
People are forming die hard opinions without the information.
It has to be reported on and captured on video when a QB is missing open receivers.
People are forming die hard opinions without the information.
Besides needing the all 22 (which is available usually Tuesday to see the routes develop you would need to know the play and progression (vs a specific defense) to know definitely what was missed. Also any specific instructions that apply to the situation at hand.
Even when professionals who break down video - they admit there are facts that don’t have and the conclusions are an educated guess.
Those who claim seeing missed reads from their la-z-boy on Sunday are talking out their ass. There’s plenty of that. And plenty that just parrot their favorite personalities.
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The draft isn’t until the end of April. We don’t have to answer that question on September 19th
But you answered the question about Jones last January, even though an answer isnt needed until the end of April
You say over and over, since January, that the Giants need to get rid of Jones because there are better QBs to be had. You cant name any, but you know they are out there so the Giants have to get rid of Jones
Digging in more here St Albans dupe?
Jones has 3 years of NFL film for us to make that call on him this past offseason. So did Schoen which is why he passed on exercising the 5th option.
Are you struggling with these facts?
Those who claim seeing missed reads from their la-z-boy on Sunday are talking out their ass. There’s plenty of that. And plenty that just parrot their favorite personalities.
It's a lot easier to notice that a QB doesn't see the whole field or misses an open man once you see the all-22. I'm not talking about being able to decipher the play, that takes more sophisticated knowledge of what's supposed to happen on any given snap.
Jones being not fast enough to process entirely what he sees play out in front of him is something that's followed him from college. The all-22 is just further confirmation of a known critique.
I’m only saying in the moment, on the game threads or anytime before the all 22 is released people claiming that are full of shit/ guessing/ whatever. Then it gets repeated a few times and then accepted as fact.
The other thing is no one outside the org knows the design, progression, rules, etc
It’s fine that we guess. I prefer an educated guess, but to each their own
I get annoyed at people presenting their opinions as facts
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Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
Great blitz pickup by Barkley, nice play call off play action and route combos by Kafka, but Daniel Jones doesn't come close to reading Toney on the deep over (who seems open forever) for what would be a chunk gain. With KT and that much space, that could easily be a TD #Giants
This is so bad. Yet, the Giants supposedly will not be able to find someone better. Watch the video. Link - ( New Window )
lol. How the phucque does anyone here know what Toney is supposed to be running there? There's obviously a reason he hasn't been getting a lot of time, and I have read more than once that he likes to freelance. Based on what Shpard said in his interview, I can guarantee that's not going to fly with Daboll (and it would make sense why we are not seeing much of him). He gets caught in a bit of a wash and then sort of strafes to the center of the field. Nobody on this page knows if that is a route in the Daboll / Kafka tree or not. And QBs don't just scan the field looking for guys freelancing (if that is in fact what's happening here).
lol
Forget KT for a second, who is clearly wide open, and part of that route design.
If you watch that video even more closely, you'll see that Shep (#3) is coming open on the delay route from the right side after coming in motion and working through the traffic. He has split both linebackers and is open right at the 35-yard line. That is a pretty easy throw for Jones.
But he looks locked in on Sills - looks like a poorly run Slugo route - and completely misses Shep and KT.
Geezus.
- Protect himself better when he runs the ball
- Win the pre-snap chess games more often
- Hit the home run balls when they are there
Those are the table stakes for him. He can do that no matter what happens around him. Schoen didn't have the resources to fix the surroundings this year, and there's no reinforcements showing up.
Because make no mistake, this is a tryout for Daniel Jones.
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Freelance or not, just another example of Jones not seeing the field. Being a QB now is so much about making plays off schedule, not being a robot.
Forget KT for a second, who is clearly wide open, and part of that route design.
If you watch that video even more closely, you'll see that Shep (#3) is coming open on the delay route from the right side after coming in motion and working through the traffic. He has split both linebackers and is open right at the 35-yard line. That is a pretty easy throw for Jones.
But he looks locked in on Sills - looks like a poorly run Slugo route - and completely misses Shep and KT.
I saw that with shep and almost wondered if he was the second read
Regardless I agree that he never came off sills up top and there was time to get to KT or shep before he got sacked.
While that go route or whatever was probably a good matchup on paper (1v1 with no saftey over the top) sills was never gonna eat up that cushion and get bast the cb. It probably never had a chance with sills maybe slayton tho.
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In comment 15824034 ajr2456 said:
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The draft isn’t until the end of April. We don’t have to answer that question on September 19th
But you answered the question about Jones last January, even though an answer isnt needed until the end of April
You say over and over, since January, that the Giants need to get rid of Jones because there are better QBs to be had. You cant name any, but you know they are out there so the Giants have to get rid of Jones
Digging in more here St Albans dupe?
Jones has 3 years of NFL film for us to make that call on him this past offseason. So did Schoen which is why he passed on exercising the 5th option.
Are you struggling with these facts?
You are the dupe LEH15. You are the one who was suspended from this site and then snuck back in under your dupe handle
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Lamar went at the end of the first. Mahomes went 10th. Dak went 4th round. Wilson went 75th, Rodgers 24th. Carr went 36th. Cousins 102. Hurts 53. Flacco 18th. Davis Mills 67th.
All those QBs in their primes were better than Jones, with the exception of Mills but it’s too early to tell if he’ll be better than Jones. That’s nearly a third of the starting QBs.
Lamar, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Flacco...The others are about the same as Jones. Dak, has been with a good team, but cannot get out of his way in the playoffs - but yes better in season.
I would take Dak and Flacco off your list as well.
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This season is playing out a lot like posters like BW and I predicted. This team is fundamentally better coached, and the defense is completely standing on its head. This is a 7-9 win team.
It's remarkable how well the defense is playing with the two primary pass rushers out and the issues at cornerback. If we're handing out compliments, the defense gets 99% of them. Hopefully Williams isn't bay injured, because the story of the season so far has been how well the d-line has played.
The offense has scored 40 points in two games, which over a long enough time frame portends to more losses than wins. There's not a lot to compliment the offense for having done. The offense is giving the defense no margin for error.
they're currently 16th in ppg, so wouldn't that project out to being about .500 even if the defense regressed a little bit? they are 9th in points allowed so 'completely standing on its' head' seems hyperbolic. they let ten go right down the field for the potentially game winning kick and had it gone in they'd be 1-1 (which is probably what they realistically deserve to be). it's impressive coaching given the injuries but also a byproduct of some matchups that have played to their strengths stopping the run.
in terms of the offense i think everyone is missing the forrest from the trees. if 20ppg is the baseline even when the offense is scuffling with james/sills leading them in receiving, that may imply upside beyond most of what was predicted (and nobody predicted 2-0 so implying things have only played out as expected is also a distortion). that's not a point specific to jones but it is inclusive of him.
Here comes another extrapolation from a small sample size, coming from the guy who actually tried to be righteous about extrapolation from small sample sizes.
Just a DJ fanboy masquerading as someone who understands data.
Dak is also better than Jones, it’s ok to admit this even though he’s a cowboy and has a good team around him.
@BobbySkinner_
4 plays where Daniel Jones has to pull the trigger
1. Shep has as much space as you’ll get on the GL.
2. pressure but that’s a maneuverable pocket
3. Toney
4. Bellinger
These 4 plays are the difference between having a good game or having the 31st passing offense in the NFL.
Link - ( New Window )
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Bobby Skinner
@BobbySkinner_
4 plays where Daniel Jones has to pull the trigger
1. Shep has as much space as you’ll get on the GL.
2. pressure but that’s a maneuverable pocket
3. Toney
4. Bellinger
These 4 plays are the difference between having a good game or having the 31st passing offense in the NFL.
Link - ( New Window )
When watching those plays live, I've definitely experienced the clock in my own head (even when the blocking looks fine) saying you gotta get rid of it. Sometimes you throw receivers open, sometimes you place the ball low or high or wherever your receiver has a shot and the defense is not well positioned to make a play.
There seems to be this thing with Jones that oddly some people even refuse to acknowledge where our choices are him playing super conservatively or just turning the ball over a lot. I don't like either of those options. And frankly it kind of displays that he's not even the personality type I want at QB. I want a fierce competitor that says if I am going to lose this starting job I'm going to lose it trying to make plays, trying to get through more of my reads. Trying to make something happen not have something happen for me.
Increasingly I'm comforted by the fact that I do not think BD is super happy with his play. But as much as I would relish a playoff appearance if it costs us Jones on a 5 year deal, I think that might be too high a price.
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Bobby Skinner
@BobbySkinner_
4 plays where Daniel Jones has to pull the trigger
1. Shep has as much space as you’ll get on the GL.
2. pressure but that’s a maneuverable pocket
3. Toney
4. Bellinger
These 4 plays are the difference between having a good game or having the 31st passing offense in the NFL.
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The Toney and Bellinger ones are huge misses. Bad enough to not move his head somewhat to right to see a completely uncovered Toney, but the Bellinger one is as easy as it gets for a Tight End touchdown in the NFL...