I guess I don't understand the dozens of friction post game yesterday. Tons of argumentative posts after a game THE GIANTS WON. The primary point of contention was about Daniel Jones. The odd thing to me is that I think most of us agree that:
-there is probably no circumstance where he is ever a top third QB in the league
-if everything is going right around him, could he be a Ryan Tannehill mediocre QB? Perhaps.
-is he more likely to be between 20-25th best QB in the league? Likely.
-its a low likelihood that he is a NYG after this season; perhaps that means a draft pick or trade for Trubisky or both but in the meantime is DJ and possibly TT if things get rough for DJ
Regardless, we're 2-0.
I'm happy to delete this if deemed an unnecessary DJ post. It just troubled me how the post game thread was so contentious.
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and 10 and 9 in his last 19. With arguably the worst O'line in the league, injured playmakers galore, and a subpar defense.
Just sayin'
The defense has averaged 16 points per game in his last seven starts, including two single digit efforts. That would be best in the league in the 2021 season. The offense has averaged 18.3 points per game, which would be about sixth worst.
How cus u hate the Ginats so much?
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In comment 15823538 rnargi said:
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and 10 and 9 in his last 19. With arguably the worst O'line in the league, injured playmakers galore, and a subpar defense.
Just sayin'
The defense has averaged 16 points per game in his last seven starts, including two single digit efforts. That would be best in the league in the 2021 season. The offense has averaged 18.3 points per game, which would be about sixth worst.
How cus u hate the Ginats so much?
Mostly because you're a fan, Mike!
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In comment 15823555 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 15823538 rnargi said:
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and 10 and 9 in his last 19. With arguably the worst O'line in the league, injured playmakers galore, and a subpar defense.
Just sayin'
The defense has averaged 16 points per game in his last seven starts, including two single digit efforts. That would be best in the league in the 2021 season. The offense has averaged 18.3 points per game, which would be about sixth worst.
How cus u hate the Ginats so much?
Mostly because you're a fan, Mike!
That's fair.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
Just sayin'
Can we please stop attributing wins to quarterbacks (along with goalies and pitchers)? We have enough stats to assess their performance without bringing in variables they cannot control.
2. He doesn’t make quick decisions, a lot of times it seems that he’s a beat too late on making the throw. He’ll have a guy that is open, and instead of trusting the read, holds on to the ball and has to force a tougher throw than it otherwise should have been.
3. He plays like he’s afraid to make a mistake, which is ironic because it leads to him making a good deal of them. I think this is related to number 2, he’ll see a guy is open but doesn’t make the throw right away because he needs to be absolutely sure it’s the right play before he pulls the trigger.
4. When there is a pass rush, he starts looking at the rush instead of keeping his eyes downfield to make a play. Once things break down he seems to quick to bail on the throw and instead is looking to run.
A lot of these are tendencies you’d expect to see in a rookie quarterback. It’s pretty alarming that we still see them from Jones in year 4.
Again, I'm not sure who these groups are (we really need rosters) The DG group, the anti-DG group, the DJ fan club, the non-DJ fan club.
From what I have seen over the years both sides are quite guilty of ruining threads, being rude and quite disrespectful.
At some point when an uncivilized fight is going on some are going to have to be the bigger person and put an end to it all instead of exacting revenge.
It's interesting, a poster early said "can't we all just get along" jokingly. That to me should be the goal, getting along does not mean agreeing, it just means being respectful of one another while passing when one has a chance at vengeance.
Yep, I'm guilty too.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
DG is a proxy for themselves. For all the "you must be miserable to talk negatively about the Giants like this" it's projection. Reading people attacking the Giants hurt people with either direct connections or an extreme attachment to the Giants org. They were the miserable ones not being able to fully actualize the Giants pride that is probably important to their identities, sadly. We've seen them every year itching for any excuse to try to lash out against the ones hurting their Giants pride. They never really saw what was going on very clearly through their blue tinted glasses so why would you expect them to start now? Lol.
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What I don't get is the crowd defending Gettleman still.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
DG is a proxy for themselves. For all the "you must be miserable to talk negatively about the Giants like this" it's projection. Reading people attacking the Giants hurt people with either direct connections or an extreme attachment to the Giants org. They were the miserable ones not being able to fully actualize the Giants pride that is probably important to their identities, sadly. We've seen them every year itching for any excuse to try to lash out against the ones hurting their Giants pride. They never really saw what was going on very clearly through their blue tinted glasses so why would you expect them to start now? Lol.
I fear we really could get Jones at $25M / per if the Giants go to the playoffs playing exactly like he has the first two games.
I'd sign up for any outcome with Barkley, including a longer term deal, if I could go to bed knowing that Jones outcome wasn't going to happen.
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In comment 15822973 Producer said:
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Doesn't seem very neighborly.
Says one of the antagonists....geezus.
It is a good post. It is absolutely true. A large number understand Jones is not the answer and we just want him to make plays when he can and protect the ball when he cannot - and hand off to Barkley. There is no real reason the nitpick on what he didn't do - we all know what he cannot do.
The one thing that has happened this year that has not happened in the past, Jones has lead game winning drives twice. And was able to run out the clock yesterday.
I think it's strange you are lashing out at me personally. I made one innocuous comment on the thread in question, and always avoid attacking people personally. So I'm not guilty of whatever the OP is going on about. If the hope is to have a collegial atmosphere, why would you stoop to attacks? I've always been respectful to you. If you are a mature person you can handle disagreement. We all have opinions, and sometimes we will have a different opinion than you. To label folks who disagree with you as antagonizers seems Stalinesque, if I remember my Russoan history classes correctly.
This dude just said he avoids attacking people personally. Same guy who called me Mrs. Jones for saying DJ was playing just as good as Mayfield in the game thread. You're such a poser
2. He doesn’t make quick decisions, a lot of times it seems that he’s a beat too late on making the throw. He’ll have a guy that is open, and instead of trusting the read, holds on to the ball and has to force a tougher throw than it otherwise should have been.
3. He plays like he’s afraid to make a mistake, which is ironic because it leads to him making a good deal of them. I think this is related to number 2, he’ll see a guy is open but doesn’t make the throw right away because he needs to be absolutely sure it’s the right play before he pulls the trigger.
4. When there is a pass rush, he starts looking at the rush instead of keeping his eyes downfield to make a play. Once things break down he seems to quick to bail on the throw and instead is looking to run.
A lot of these are tendencies you’d expect to see in a rookie quarterback. It’s pretty alarming that we still see them from Jones in year 4.
This pretty much nicely summarizes DJ at this point. He's not going to put the team on his back to win games or wow you with any statistics/lead a high octane, highly rated offense. He's performing adequately at the limited tasks assigned to him by Daboll, who appears to have him on a tight leash. What I'm witnessing seems very comparative to what Harbaugh did with Alex Smith in 2011. Limit the offense, his decision making, and do your best to cover the flaws. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jones finish the year with 2011 style Alex Smith numbers/season.
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In comment 15823697 Matt M. said:
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What I don't get is the crowd defending Gettleman still.
There have been posts the last 2 weeks (mostly after last week) about how a good season from Barkley and Jones vindicates Gettleman. Um...no. Those are clearly the 2 most important picks he's made. But, with or without them, Gettleman left with a team in cap Hell, no semblance of an OL, no backup QB, no TE, weak WRs, no LBs. He ran the team into the ground.
DG is a proxy for themselves. For all the "you must be miserable to talk negatively about the Giants like this" it's projection. Reading people attacking the Giants hurt people with either direct connections or an extreme attachment to the Giants org. They were the miserable ones not being able to fully actualize the Giants pride that is probably important to their identities, sadly. We've seen them every year itching for any excuse to try to lash out against the ones hurting their Giants pride. They never really saw what was going on very clearly through their blue tinted glasses so why would you expect them to start now? Lol.
The crazy part, that will blow their minds, is that both of those guys could have the best seasons of their careers and not be brought back.
While those posts exist, I doubt that POV makes up even 1% of the active posters on this site. There are always minority extreme views shared by almost no one else.
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they are 9th in points allowed so 'completely standing on its' head' seems hyperbolic. they let ten go right down the field for the potentially game winning kick and had it gone in they'd be 1-1 (which is probably what they realistically deserve to be). it's impressive coaching given the injuries but also a byproduct of some matchups that have played to their strengths stopping the run.
Maybe it's the match-ups, so I'm not predicting anything.
But I think it's no exaggeration, in a new system, with the corners and pass rushers they've started, two be a top 10 defense at this early juncture is phenomenal.
to be 16th in ppg in a new system with sills/james as the 2 leading receivers and some OL going through growing pains is also pretty good no?
Again, read what Sy said. There could be a handful of QB prospects better than him and cheaper. I take it you will be pretty disappointed once Schoen & Daboll draft a QB in the first round and likely trade up to get one.
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
Why do you keep pushing this silly statement in the middle of Sept?
If Schoen and Daboll thought the same then they would have most certainly exercised Jones 5th year option. But they didn’t so your take has no logic unless you feel they just forgot to do it…
And if we are that concerned about replacing Jones production, we already have Taylor and lots of backup caliber QBs come available every year, guys like Trubisky, Marita, Mayfield, Bridgewater, Brissett, Minster, etc
Daniel Jones himself wasn’t projected as a first rounder on September 19th
maybe I am naive, but what is there to praise him for?
the fact that the Panthers didn't catch the three gimme interceptions he nearly threw yesterday? the fact that he hasn't single-handedly blown either of the first two games? the fact that he threw a single TD pass in the red zone?
I have no problem giving credit where it's due, but DJ plays like Elvis Grbac for a couple of weeks and all of the sudden he isn't shit anymore?
(Disclaimer that he was pretty good in high school, and possibly middle school)
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In comment 15823554 Eric on Li said:
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they are 9th in points allowed so 'completely standing on its' head' seems hyperbolic. they let ten go right down the field for the potentially game winning kick and had it gone in they'd be 1-1 (which is probably what they realistically deserve to be). it's impressive coaching given the injuries but also a byproduct of some matchups that have played to their strengths stopping the run.
Maybe it's the match-ups, so I'm not predicting anything.
But I think it's no exaggeration, in a new system, with the corners and pass rushers they've started, two be a top 10 defense at this early juncture is phenomenal.
to be 16th in ppg in a new system with sills/james as the 2 leading receivers and some OL going through growing pains is also pretty good no?
I think two games in rankings are a bad metric.
Last year on a 17 game season, 18 PPG on defense is a top 3 defense and 20 PPG is a bottom third offense.
So my guess is in a little more context, if both groups keep it up the Giants have a great defense and a bad offense.
maybe I am naive, but what is there to praise him for?
the fact that the Panthers didn't catch the three gimme interceptions he nearly threw yesterday? the fact that he hasn't single-handedly blown either of the first two games? the fact that he threw a single TD pass in the red zone?
I have no problem giving credit where it's due, but DJ plays like Elvis Grbac for a couple of weeks and all of the sudden he isn't shit anymore?
I think most gave him credit for some big plays in the 4th. That should have been interception might have been very difficult to overcome. Lucky.
They had 25 yards rushing to start the 4th QTR? What exactly and who was going to help him make plays during those first three QTR's? Were there WR's open as Jones was comfortable in the pocket processing that he missed consistently?
The offense has been brutal. Jones struggles tremendously with getting the team into the end zone.
I just don’t understand how so many fans are content with this level of QB play.
That's just goofy. Everyone knows that literally every QB on every team can throw TD passes. Everyone also knows that league history is replete with QBs (and several other positions) who've had monster games a few times that are greatly outnumbered by average or poor games.
I doubt people would think it's controversial to say Josh Freeman, Trubisky, and Mike White weren't and aren't elite-caliber QBs and yet they managed to have a monster game or two.
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as well as Baker yesterday, the Giants would have lost. Baker was a first round pick too. Breaking news: There are very few QB's in the league that can claim to be the best. Top tier QB's are few and far between. The chances of the Giants drafting a QB that is better than Jones are probably 1 in 5 or less. They don't grow on trees.
The offense has been brutal. Jones struggles tremendously with getting the team into the end zone.
I just don’t understand how so many fans are content with this level of QB play.
I think some of us realize it's not just QB play.
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
It's nice when someone pops into a thread like this and can throw a zinger in like that. Thanks, Snablats!
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as well as Baker yesterday, the Giants would have lost. Baker was a first round pick too. Breaking news: There are very few QB's in the league that can claim to be the best. Top tier QB's are few and far between. The chances of the Giants drafting a QB that is better than Jones are probably 1 in 5 or less. They don't grow on trees.
The offense has been brutal. Jones struggles tremendously with getting the team into the end zone.
I just don’t understand how so many fans are content with this level of QB play.
I would not say that people are content with this level of QB play so much as there has been a lot of worse QB performances so far this year from QB's better than Jones. Indy with Matt Ryan and Jonathan Taylor TIE a crappy Houston team and get blanked by Jacksonville.
Oddly, very few of the QBs out of college ever do a damn thing. I agree that a fresh approach is likely to be needed next spring. There are a lot of names out there at QB, but usually by mid-NCAA season, half have been exposed.
If they pick middle of the pack, any QB left will likely not be an improvement, but will be cheaper. They may be better off taking a CB, OL, DE or WR.
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
The point is that next year is not the last year ever. Do you guys think the Giants are so cursed that they can never get a good starting QB ever again?
All those QBs in their primes were better than Jones, with the exception of Mills but it’s too early to tell if he’ll be better than Jones. That’s nearly a third of the starting QBs.
All those QBs in their primes were better than Jones, with the exception of Mills but it’s too early to tell if he’ll be better than Jones. That’s nearly a third of the starting QBs.
Lamar, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Flacco...The others are about the same as Jones. Dak, has been with a good team, but cannot get out of his way in the playoffs - but yes better in season.
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In comment 15823739 Snablats said:
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
So you know the ceiling of every college QB playing in the game today and that no one will ever outpace what Jones showed yesterday?
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In comment 15823756 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15823739 Snablats said:
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
So you know the ceiling of every college QB playing in the game today and that no one will ever outpace what Jones showed yesterday?
There are a few who have a higher season and are eligible for 2023 Draft, but (1) who knows if any will fall into an area the Giants can reasonably obtain that pick and (2) many fail to reach their potential.
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Lamar went at the end of the first. Mahomes went 10th. Dak went 4th round. Wilson went 75th, Rodgers 24th. Carr went 36th. Cousins 102. Hurts 53. Flacco 18th. Davis Mills 67th.
All those QBs in their primes were better than Jones, with the exception of Mills but it’s too early to tell if he’ll be better than Jones. That’s nearly a third of the starting QBs.
Lamar, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Flacco...The others are about the same as Jones. Dak, has been with a good team, but cannot get out of his way in the playoffs - but yes better in season.
Cousins is as good as Jones? Cousins the last 6 years has averaged over 4000 yards, 30 tds, 10 interceptions while completing 67% of his passes. Maybe in terms of throwing Hurts and Jones are the same but Hurts scored points as 10x more dangerous with his legs.
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In comment 15823897 Snablats said:
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In comment 15823756 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15823739 Snablats said:
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But there's no one out there next year who's better than him
Good point - it's very hard to find a better QB than Daniel Jones. Excuse me for a moment while I laugh very hard.
OK, that's better. More to the point, you haven't the faintest idea of who will be available this offseason, you dolt.
You think someone's going to drop from Mars that we haven't heard about? It's not my fault you're a complete idiot in every sport
So you know the ceiling of every college QB playing in the game today and that no one will ever outpace what Jones showed yesterday?
There are a few who have a higher season and are eligible for 2023 Draft, but (1) who knows if any will fall into an area the Giants can reasonably obtain that pick and (2) many fail to reach their potential.
Look forward to this years Willis (pick 5 for the Giants?. Quite a few of the QB gurus are on this thread as they are on most related to Jones and QB's in general.
Daboll & Schoen are going to pull the trigger on a qb at some point. Jones is a stopgap.
So long as he doesn’t lose us games with turnovers i’m ok with him.
Jones ceiling is that same class of QB as Darnold, Baker, and Goff. They're all on different teams for a reason. Just hope NYG management doesn't make the same mistake LAR did with Goff.
Daboll & Schoen are going to pull the trigger on a qb at some point. Jones is a stopgap.
So long as he doesn’t lose us games with turnovers i’m ok with him.
Great post.
Not having unconditional support for Daniel Jones is far more rooted in wanting the Giants to be great, not just good enough to win.
Carr too. He’s produced and carried some average raiders rosters.
Daboll & Schoen are going to pull the trigger on a qb at some point. Jones is a stopgap.
So long as he doesn’t lose us games with turnovers i’m ok with him.
Yep.
Wonder if Daboll had any thoughts of pulling him before he got them into the end zone on the Bellinger throw…