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Sterling Shepard

Giants : 9/19/2022 10:26 am
After last week's game Shepard said it's hard system to learn. We all are still learning. Now after this game says:


“We have to do better on pre-snap,” Shepard said of the receivers. “Guys have to know where to go. Too many times that, myself included, I was going the wrong way. Then you look at the clock and we have to hurry up, so that throws off a little bit of the timing.” We all need to realize it's not always the QB fault when passing game isn't going at its best
I'm  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2022 10:28 am : link
glad you posted that.

That quote really stood out to me too.

He's basically admitting the WRs are screwing up. Not totally unexpected given the new system.

This is why practice matters, including "voluntary" practices that some insist are not helpful.
Remember  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2022 10:29 am : link
the horrific game Eli had against the Vikings where there were something like three pick-6s?

Everyone - including me - lambasted Eli.

Only a year or two later, when a book came out, did we learn that two of those were on the targets (one was Shockey).
He is not allowed to  
section125 : 9/19/2022 10:31 am : link
say that.....

I think that is why Daboll went ballistic after that eff up at the goalline after the 2nd fumble. QB and WRs need to make the same reads. If they do not have enough time to make their reads(WRs) how does the QB know what route they will be running.
IIRC, there is some Kevin Gilbride element to this offense.
Jones  
pjcas18 : 9/19/2022 10:31 am : link
is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.

I'm starting to think that when Shepard's playing time is behind him,  
Ira : 9/19/2022 10:31 am : link
he'll make a great coach.
Shepard also protected Williams after the game from reporters  
George from PA : 9/19/2022 10:31 am : link
He has definitely turned into a vocal leader
everyone on the offense looks like they are thinking more than playing  
Eric on Li : 9/19/2022 10:32 am : link
with the exception of barkley. bruce arians used to say things usually clicked for an offense around week 7 or 8 and to some degree that was even true in his first years with Warner/Brady.

one of the criticisms of Toney coming out of college was that he freelanced routes too much, and that would explain why they've basically only gone to him with designed touches around the LOS so far.
I  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2022 10:33 am : link
strongly, strongly recommend fans listen to the WR coach Q&As from last week. He talked about how the only way you learn the option routes is by actually practicing. He said you can't learn them from standing on the sidelines or in the class room. The QB and WRs have to be on the same page.
If he stays healthy  
Rory : 9/19/2022 10:35 am : link
He really can be a valued asset.

His route running and feel for the game would help Jones IF jones is marked as QB as the future.
Notice this a lot during the game  
k2tampa : 9/19/2022 10:35 am : link
Maybe I'm wrong, but the one guy I don't recall Jones having to reposition at the line was Toney.
Meshes  
mittenedman : 9/19/2022 10:36 am : link
with what we've seen from Toney and the rumors the coaching staff was upset with him for not playing vs. the Jets.

It's worth mentioning Garrett's system was incredibly simplistic in comparison. Akin to run to the traffic cone and turn around. Everyone including the opposing defense knew exactly where everyone was going, and when.

This is a much more intricate offense and a lot of the young players carrying over from Garrett's offense (or Toney's from Florda, for example) are in for a rude awakening.

It's no surprise Shepard and Richie James are the 2 guys getting most of the opportunities right now.
RE: Jones  
djm : 9/19/2022 10:39 am : link
In comment 15823127 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.


Yea but he sucks don't ever forget that. Scream it from the hilltops. Don't ever relent. Stay strong realists. Stay strong.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/19/2022 10:41 am : link
one of the reasons why Eli and Plax were consistently not on the same page. Plax never practiced.
I hope that everyone....  
Johnny5 : 9/19/2022 10:43 am : link
... EVERY member of BBI... reads this thread.
RE: I'm  
jvm52106 : 9/19/2022 10:50 am : link
In comment 15823115 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
glad you posted that.

That quote really stood out to me too.

He's basically admitting the WRs are screwing up. Not totally unexpected given the new system.

This is why practice matters, including "voluntary" practices that some insist are not helpful.


Also another reason Sills plays, he knows the system.
You see DJ  
Now Mike in MD : 9/19/2022 10:51 am : link
having to direct guys to the right spot numerous times in game. So if the receivers aren't lining up correcttly pre-snap, I can only imagine the mistakes they are making when they are actually making decisions o option routes during the play
RE: ...  
section125 : 9/19/2022 10:51 am : link
In comment 15823167 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
one of the reasons why Eli and Plax were consistently not on the same page. Plax never practiced.


Except for the most important play of the game...
Way back when Andy Reid started  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/19/2022 10:52 am : link
Madden was doing a game. Talked about Reid's "binder" and how it would take 4 years to master it. Yes lots of changes to the game. You can still have success but the details matter.
This is actually a pretty awesome  
jvm52106 : 9/19/2022 10:55 am : link
thread as it validates something I was thinking during the game yesterday. We were taking the play clock down too far and really seemed to be too busy getting motion started (sometimes Jones had toc all for it) and that seemed to throw off the rhythm of the offense.

Look at our TD drive and see how smoothly and quickly we got in and out of the huddle and how more "up tempo" the offense appeared-without being a true hurry up offense. *By the way, that helps the Oline a lot too. The longer the Oline has to stay in their stance the more antsy and more amped up they get and the more the defense can become force apply vs reacting to force.
this is great  
gmen4ever : 9/19/2022 11:04 am : link
thank you for posting. Shep is a true leader and has a "team first" mindset
Sticky this thread.  
csh2z : 9/19/2022 12:15 pm : link
Everybody should read it.
This team has been so bad  
JB_in_DC : 9/19/2022 12:27 pm : link
and experienced so much change the past 6 years that it's almost easy to forget as fans how big of a deal it is to change the offensive system. And this is a big change - not like we're going from just one version of the west coast to another, for example.

When Giants still had expectations in the late Coughlin-era, switching from Gilbride's system to McAdoo's was the #1 topic of the offseason.

I'm gonna be patient as the guys get used to this, and as Kafka himself gets used to calling plays.
Putting aside Shepard's comments  
SomeFan : 9/19/2022 12:43 pm : link
he has made people miss / broke tackles so far this year more than I have seen in his entire career.
I remember a sideline reporter can't remember  
Blue21 : 9/19/2022 12:59 pm : link
who it was asked Daboll for comments and he said they had to get to the line of scrimmage quicker after they broke the huddle . No doubt so everyone could pickup their pre snap reads.
RE: Putting aside Shepard's comments  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/19/2022 1:04 pm : link
In comment 15823468 SomeFan said:
Quote:
he has made people miss / broke tackles so far this year more than I have seen in his entire career.


Eh. We forget how good he was in 2017/2018. He averaged 13 yards per catch .
RE: Jones  
Greg from LI : 9/19/2022 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15823127 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.


How many of them travel more than 10 yards in the air?
RE: ...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/19/2022 1:36 pm : link
In comment 15823167 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
one of the reasons why Eli and Plax were consistently not on the same page. Plax never practiced.


lol is this a serious comment?
RE: RE: Jones  
rnargi : 9/19/2022 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15823602 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15823127 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.




How many of them travel more than 10 yards in the air?


Why, don't the completions count if they're under 10 yards in the air?
The degree of difficulty is a mite different, no?  
Greg from LI : 9/19/2022 1:45 pm : link
I would expect the completion percentage for a passing game consisting largely of short passes and checkdowns to be fairly high.
RE: You see DJ  
Bizfoodie : 9/19/2022 1:46 pm : link
In comment 15823199 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
having to direct guys to the right spot numerous times in game. So if the receivers aren't lining up correcttly pre-snap, I can only imagine the mistakes they are making when they are actually making decisions o option routes during the play


And for that reason is why I think Richie James is getting so much playing time. Has experience in the system and seems to find the soft spots in coverage and be where he’s supposed to after route develops. Seems like DJs favorite target
RE: RE: Jones  
montanagiant : 9/19/2022 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15823160 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15823127 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.




Yea but he sucks don't ever forget that. Scream it from the hilltops. Don't ever relent. Stay strong realists. Stay strong.
Jones was getting dogged in the game thread when we were up 6-0 and he was something like 7 of 9 passing. The complaint was that all he is doing is checking down and not taking any deep shots even though no deep passes were called for at that stage
RE: The degree of difficulty is a mite different, no?  
rnargi : 9/19/2022 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15823626 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I would expect the completion percentage for a passing game consisting largely of short passes and checkdowns to be fairly high.


So you're saying you'd rather him take chances and throw to receivers admittedly running the wrong routes instead of checking down. Got it.

Jones is 5-2 in his last 7 starts (as well as 10 and 9 in his last 19) and it means nothing. I get it. It is what it is.
I get that shorter  
pjcas18 : 9/19/2022 1:59 pm : link
passes usually mean they are easier in terms of difficulty and higher completion percent is expected.

but...I think it is a sign of maturity for the QB to (to use the cliche) take what the defense gives him instead of forcing the ball downfield with low percentage passes, keep the chains moving and get the offense into a rhythm.

In the past the offense never seemed to adjust to what the defense does, and still used the same initial game plan and that seemed to result in whole halfs of 3 and outs or little progress/movement/success.

Eventually you have to believe as the OL gels and as the offense experiences some success defenses will be forced to loosen up and the longer plays will be there.

While the OL has improved, Jones still gets pressured a lot so I don't mind adjusting to a shorter passing game even top open up the run and then vice versa the run will open up the pass - Jones had some really good play action yesterday - they all didn't result in success for some reason (WR ran the wrong route?) but you could see the defense bite on the fake which was something I hadn't seen much with this offense lately.

anyway, my point really was, if Jones is completing 70% of his passes with WR's who don't know what to do and are constantly running the wrong routes I think this offense can be special. lol.
RE: I get that shorter  
rnargi : 9/19/2022 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15823656 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
passes usually mean they are easier in terms of difficulty and higher completion percent is expected.

but...I think it is a sign of maturity for the QB to (to use the cliche) take what the defense gives him instead of forcing the ball downfield with low percentage passes, keep the chains moving and get the offense into a rhythm.

In the past the offense never seemed to adjust to what the defense does, and still used the same initial game plan and that seemed to result in whole halfs of 3 and outs or little progress/movement/success.

Eventually you have to believe as the OL gels and as the offense experiences some success defenses will be forced to loosen up and the longer plays will be there.

While the OL has improved, Jones still gets pressured a lot so I don't mind adjusting to a shorter passing game even top open up the run and then vice versa the run will open up the pass - Jones had some really good play action yesterday - they all didn't result in success for some reason (WR ran the wrong route?) but you could see the defense bite on the fake which was something I hadn't seen much with this offense lately.

anyway, my point really was, if Jones is completing 70% of his passes with WR's who don't know what to do and are constantly running the wrong routes I think this offense can be special. lol.


I completely agree with this. The TD drive showed a glimpse of what CAN be. Hopefully as the WRs learn and DJ gains confidence in them, this can become the norm.
It means something, sure  
Greg from LI : 9/19/2022 2:12 pm : link
Means Barkley was sensational in week one and the defense was sensational in week two.

Danny Kanell was 7-2-1 as starter in 1997. He was mostly a passenger. Same as Jones has been. If you want to pretend that Daniel Jones is carrying the Giants to victories, you're welcome to do so. You'd be laughably mistaken about that, but I get it. It is what it is.

Was that 11 play, 37 yard drive for the GW FG yesterday the greatest 37 yard drive in the history of football, or just the history of the Giants? Questions, questions.
RE: It means something, sure  
Johnny5 : 9/19/2022 2:15 pm : link
In comment 15823671 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Means Barkley was sensational in week one and the defense was sensational in week two.

Danny Kanell was 7-2-1 as starter in 1997. He was mostly a passenger. Same as Jones has been. If you want to pretend that Daniel Jones is carrying the Giants to victories, you're welcome to do so. You'd be laughably mistaken about that, but I get it. It is what it is.

Was that 11 play, 37 yard drive for the GW FG yesterday the greatest 37 yard drive in the history of football, or just the history of the Giants? Questions, questions.

Greg seriously. Danny Kanell? You are comping DJ to Danny Kanell?? Dude... come on.
I didn't compare them  
Greg from LI : 9/19/2022 2:38 pm : link
Although it's not nearly as outlandish a comparison as you seem to believe it is. I'm refuting the notion that the team's record is a yardstick by which to judge Jones' performance as a QB.
RE: I didn't compare them  
Matt M. : 9/19/2022 2:44 pm : link
In comment 15823717 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Although it's not nearly as outlandish a comparison as you seem to believe it is. I'm refuting the notion that the team's record is a yardstick by which to judge Jones' performance as a QB.
Fair point or semi-comparison.
Love me some Shep!  
trueblueinpw : 9/19/2022 2:49 pm : link
He gets knicked up, yes. But he does everything right. Blocking assignments, keeping his mouth shut, speaking up at the right time, practice, route running, protecting the Duke, holding on to the ball, making the big catches…

He’s a terrific Giant!

As far as the comments, lots of good points here so far. The Giants don’t know the system yet and they’re 2-0. Let that sink in! I think we’re finally on the right track fella’s. What a fucking great day this is!
RE: RE: Jones  
joeinpa : 9/19/2022 2:55 pm : link
In comment 15823602 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15823127 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.




How many of them travel more than 10 yards in the air?


Enough time be 2-0 and 5-2 min n his last 7.
RE: Notice this a lot during the game  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/19/2022 2:57 pm : link
In comment 15823147 k2tampa said:
Quote:
Maybe I'm wrong, but the one guy I don't recall Jones having to reposition at the line was Toney.


It's possible that Toney has plays that are drawn up specifically for him because he isn't familiar with the rest of the playbook. Could be why he barely got snaps in the first game.
RE: RE: RE: Jones  
Greg from LI : 9/19/2022 3:01 pm : link
In comment 15823738 joeinpa said:
Quote:

Enough time be 2-0 and 5-2 min n his last 7.


As to my last post, here is exhibit A.

Do you believe Jones was a prime factor in those wins or someone who was mostly along for the ride?
RE: I didn't compare them  
Johnny5 : 9/19/2022 3:01 pm : link
In comment 15823717 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Although it's not nearly as outlandish a comparison as you seem to believe it is. I'm refuting the notion that the team's record is a yardstick by which to judge Jones' performance as a QB.

I actually liked Kanell but there is no comparison to be made there.
Why not?  
Greg from LI : 9/19/2022 3:06 pm : link
Kanell was a mostly bad QB while Jones is a mediocre at best QB.
RE: Remember  
bradshaw44 : 9/19/2022 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15823121 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the horrific game Eli had against the Vikings where there were something like three pick-6s?

Everyone - including me - lambasted Eli.

Only a year or two later, when a book came out, did we learn that two of those were on the targets (one was Shockey).


I was at that game. Ooof!!

I knew it was going to be bad when Tavaris Jackson hit the WR in stride for the bomb down the side line to start the game. And it only got worse.
RE: Love me some Shep!  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 9/19/2022 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15823729 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
He gets knicked up, yes. But he does everything right. Blocking assignments, keeping his mouth shut, speaking up at the right time, practice, route running, protecting the Duke, holding on to the ball, making the big catches…

He’s a terrific Giant!

As far as the comments, lots of good points here so far. The Giants don’t know the system yet and they’re 2-0. Let that sink in! I think we’re finally on the right track fella’s. What a fucking great day this is!


+1 Great post!
RE: Why not?  
Johnny5 : 9/19/2022 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15823758 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Kanell was a mostly bad QB while Jones is a mediocre at best QB.

Fair enough but I guess it comes down to my belief in his upside vs. yours. I believe DJ has a bunch more to give once they all absorb the scheme more, the WRs and QB are all on the same page more consistently, and the OL gels and improves.
Some great posts in this thread  
John In CO : 9/19/2022 3:45 pm : link
THIS is why I love BBI! You have to work your way through a lot of fighting, arguing, insults, disrespect, ingnoramuses, mental midgets, etc.....but once you do that, every once in a while, you come across some Yankee28 posts or Sy posts.....or a thread like this one, and you actually learn something useful. Makes wading through all the crap seem worth it.
From what I read  
ChrisRick : 9/19/2022 3:51 pm : link
in the off-season, this system gives the wide receivers the responsibility of not only reading the leverage of the defensive backs, but the coverage and adjust their routes accordingly. Which means the qb and the wide receivers must read the defense the same way at the same time.
RE: RE: Jones  
Alamo : 9/19/2022 4:47 pm : link
In comment 15823602 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15823127 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.




How many of them travel more than 10 yards in the air?

Have you ever paid attention to how many of the same short passes Tom Brady throws,until he finally let's one go for 30/35 yds ? If your getting a big time rush coming at you,that's about all you can throw if you do not want to get sacked..I was paying attention to Bradys throws in the 1st game..These numbers I am going to write down are yds passing from Brady's hand to receiver's hands..These are not in the exact order,but the 1st throws in a new series of plays..
2....5...4....7...6...It looks almost like Jones's numbers..Actually, they look like just about most QB's numbers..Except Mahones..Rodgers..Burrow and 3 or 4 more QB's..This is the way football is played now..No more runs on 1st & 2nd down,and pass on 3rd down..It's a pass happy game..But you can't be passing 20/30yds or more every play,unless your down by 2 scores and there's only 4/5 minutes left in the game..I think Rodgers is the best at the longer throws all game long..He is special..
RE: RE: Why not?  
Now Mike in MD : 9/19/2022 4:49 pm : link
In comment 15823777 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15823758 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Kanell was a mostly bad QB while Jones is a mediocre at best QB.


Fair enough but I guess it comes down to my belief in his upside vs. yours. I believe DJ has a bunch more to give once they all absorb the scheme more, the WRs and QB are all on the same page more consistently, and the OL gels and improves.


First of all, shame on you both for making me relive the great BBI Kannell just has "It" debate. UUUggh.

But I agree. THere's no comparison. Kannell had a rag arm and no spead. DJ at least has the upside potential of a good arm and wheels
RE: RE: Jones  
TrueBlue56 : 9/19/2022 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15823602 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15823127 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is completing over 70% of his passes through 2 games.




How many of them travel more than 10 yards in the air?


So, now we are knocking Daniel jones for completing passes because he isn't throwing them far enough for your liking? What a ridiculous statement. Go look at the stats. Last year no quarterback averaged more than 9 yards per pass for the season. The highest? Joe burrow at 8.9. Tom Brady has made a Hall of fame career out of short passes. Are you going to knock him too?

Just for fun. looking at random passing game stats.

Daniel jones (week 2)
Throws over 10 yards 4/8
Throws under 10 yards 18/24

Baker Mayfield
Over 10 yards 4/9
Under 10 yards 10/18

Kyle Murray
Over 4/10
Under 27/37

Derek Carr
Over 4/10
Under 21/29

Aaron Rodgers
Over 5/6
Under 14/19

Herbert
Over 6/10
Under 27/36

Mahomes
Over 5/9
Under 19/25

I see a lot of quarterbacks make a majority of their passes within 10 yards, and yet you seem to want to use it as a negative.



Next gen stats - ( New Window )
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