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MNF thread: Titans @ Bills, Vikes @ Eagles.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/19/2022 7:05 pm
I expect Buffalo to cruise in the opener. The spread is Buffalo -10. I'd take the over on that. Bills Mafia will be out in full force.

Vikes-Eagles should be a good one. The spread is Eagles -2.5. I like the Vikings here. I just think Minnesota is a flat out better team. They whipped the Pack last weekend & the Cousins-Jefferson combo looked damn good. Justin Jefferson...man, that dude is electric. Thank God Philly took Reagor instead of Jefferson in the '20 draft because the thought of seeing Justin Jefferson 2X a year...no bueno. Goes without saying...Skol!

I like the two MNF games. I believe they're expanding it to 3 times next season.
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Can’t just discount wins  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 7:13 am : link
if teams we beat lose games to top teams. That’s strange logic considering we are so damn undermanned already and playing with limited talent.
RE: Those  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 7:52 am : link
In comment 15824626 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
dismissing the Giants beating the Titans in Week 1 are just plain wrong.

The 2022 Titans would have easily crushed the 2021 New York Giants...the 2020 New York Giants... the 2019 New York Giants... the 2018 New York Giants...


But it’s 2022 vs 2022.

Nobody’s being dismissive of the win, but the Titans aren’t a good team right now so the excuses for some of our offensive struggles that game (top defense, #1 seed last year) don’t hold much water.
ajr2456  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/20/2022 8:00 am : link
You simply don't know that.

The Bills are on a different level right now.

You don't think Derrick Henry would have run all over the 2021 New York Giants?

You don't think the defense would have given up a touchdown at the end of the first half and/or game?

You don't think the offense would have failed in their comeback attempt?

The point is the Giants have gotten better already this year.

You can wallow in misery like you always do, but I'm looking at the positives.
RE: ajr2456  
Angel Eyes : 9/20/2022 8:00 am : link
In comment 15824653 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You simply don't know that.

The Bills are on a different level right now.

You don't think Derrick Henry would have run all over the 2021 New York Giants?

You don't think the defense would have given up a touchdown at the end of the first half and/or game?

You don't think the offense would have failed in their comeback attempt?

The point is the Giants have gotten better already this year.

You can wallow in misery like you always do, but I'm looking at the positives.

I'll admit I had my heart in my mouth during the last Titans drive of that game (Week 1).
RE: ajr2456  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 8:06 am : link
In comment 15824653 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You simply don't know that.

The Bills are on a different level right now.

You don't think Derrick Henry would have run all over the 2021 New York Giants?

You don't think the defense would have given up a touchdown at the end of the first half and/or game?

You don't think the offense would have failed in their comeback attempt?

The point is the Giants have gotten better already this year.

You can wallow in misery like you always do, but I'm looking at the positives.


How am I wallowing in misery for having for having an opinion that the Titans aren’t good this year? You guys keep making these accusations but it says more about you guys than me.

Not sure why you keep talking about the 2021 Giants. It’s irrelevant. Has anyone said the Giants haven’t gotten better? No they haven’t.

But it’s ok to point out the Titans, who have punched above their weight class the past couple of years, are missing their best pass rusher, Olineman, their best receiver is Robert Woods coming off an injury, and have a below average QB. They’ve taken a massive step back. That doesn’t diminish the Giants win; every win is a good win. But it’s also not as easy to waive away the offensive struggles of the first half in week 1.
Way too early IMO  
GiantGrit : 9/20/2022 8:07 am : link
To get overly excited about anyone, including the Bills. Lets see who stays healthy and is playing well going into the dance. Its early, real early.
RE: RE: Those  
ChrisRick : 9/20/2022 8:09 am : link
In comment 15824645 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15824626 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


dismissing the Giants beating the Titans in Week 1 are just plain wrong.

The 2022 Titans would have easily crushed the 2021 New York Giants...the 2020 New York Giants... the 2019 New York Giants... the 2018 New York Giants...



But it’s 2022 vs 2022.

Nobody’s being dismissive of the win, but the Titans aren’t a good team right now so the excuses for some of our offensive struggles that game (top defense, #1 seed last year) don’t hold much water.


I read at least one poster calling the Titans win “fools gold”. I can understand adjusting how we look at the Giants after the Titans game last night, but calling the game “fools good” is dismissive
I can’t speak for said poster  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 8:16 am : link
But calling a win fools gold doesn’t also mean it wasn’t a good win.

I mean people are in here saying the Eagles didn’t look that good and it was because the Vikings stunk last night, but it’s not ok to say the Titans don’t look as good as they did last year and that tempers the excitement of that win a little bit?

Why do people care so much because people don’t look at something the same way you do or don’t get as excited?
RE: I can’t speak for said poster  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 8:25 am : link
In comment 15824672 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
But calling a win fools gold doesn’t also mean it wasn’t a good win.

I mean people are in here saying the Eagles didn’t look that good and it was because the Vikings stunk last night, but it’s not ok to say the Titans don’t look as good as they did last year and that tempers the excitement of that win a little bit?

Why do people care so much because people don’t look at something the same way you do or don’t get as excited?


Not sure who you are talking about but you do this often where you don't like hearing opposing takes of opposing takes.

I think its pretty silly, on such a week to week league where matchups are vital, to downplay a win because the Super Bowl favorites led by an MVP favorite destroyed the team that we beat week 1. If you feel otherwise, perfectly fine but a call out isn't necessary.
RE: RE: I can’t speak for said poster  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 8:28 am : link
In comment 15824677 UConn4523 said:
Quote:

Not sure who you are talking about but you do this often where you don't like hearing opposing takes of opposing takes.


If this means I don’t like people being hypocritical, than sure. If it’s ok for people to dismiss the Eagles win because of how their opponent played, then it’s ok for people to question what Week 1 might mean for the Giants as a team the way the Titans looked.
Quality wins will come when we add more quality onto the roster.  
Jimmy Googs : 9/20/2022 8:35 am : link
But for now, the 2-0 record counts as much as anybody else's and works very nicely in being a fan...

RE: Way too early IMO  
M.S. : 9/20/2022 8:40 am : link
In comment 15824664 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
To get overly excited about anyone, including the Bills. Lets see who stays healthy and is playing well going into the dance. Its early, real early.

You make an excellent point. But I just gotta say that -- after two games -- I don't think there's an NFL team chomping at the bit to play the Bills. Right now, they are just a beast on a mission.
RE: Quality wins will come when we add more quality onto the roster.  
M.S. : 9/20/2022 8:42 am : link
In comment 15824688 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
But for now, the 2-0 record counts as much as anybody else's and works very nicely in being a fan...

Amen to that! We'll just have to wait until off-season to find upgrades to several units, but in the mean time I'm enjoying a team that has some fight in it! Haven't seen that in quite a while.
RE: RE: RE: I can’t speak for said poster  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 8:44 am : link
In comment 15824683 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15824677 UConn4523 said:


Quote:



Not sure who you are talking about but you do this often where you don't like hearing opposing takes of opposing takes.




If this means I don’t like people being hypocritical, than sure. If it’s ok for people to dismiss the Eagles win because of how their opponent played, then it’s ok for people to question what Week 1 might mean for the Giants as a team the way the Titans looked.


I don't know what comments you are referring to but is it really that strange to enjoy a win, know that we aren't some juggernaut now, and also call out how poorly the Vikings played (IMO they quit yesterday). Fuck the Eagles, let people be fans, its really not that serious.
I’m not calling out people for dismissing the Eagles  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 8:47 am : link
I’m saying if people want to do that let them, and if people want to question if the Titans aren’t good and what that means for the Giants, let them.

I was called out for being miserable and I didn’t even dismiss the win, I just simply said the Titans aren’t as good as they were last year.
and as for the Vikings  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 8:47 am : link
they were an 8-9 win team last year with a bad defense and it looks like that hasn't changed. What has changed so far is their offense seems to live and die by Cousins connecting with Jefferson - what happened to their run game? Down 7-0 and just stop running? Pitiful effort from them lastnight.
ajr  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 8:49 am : link
you can question it, but there will be people that disagree. A road win against a more talented team is always a good win.
I hate the eagles but I am not sure anyone can dismiss that win  
Essex : 9/20/2022 8:50 am : link
Forgetting even the stunning offensive performance, they literally shut down Jefferson and Cook. That is impressive, very impressive. Given their schedule, if they don’t suffer a catastrophic injury, I would be shocked if they don’t win 12-13 games
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 8:52 am : link
In comment 15824701 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you can question it, but there will be people that disagree. A road win against a more talented team is always a good win.


Any win is a good win, I even said that while saying the titans aren’t as good. The personal attacks by some on here for questioning the Titans are just weird.
The Eagles WR/TE  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 8:55 am : link
Corp is insanely deep. Pascal would be at least a #3 anywhere else. The guy had 600 yards for the Colts and is now what the 5th option.

Plus Gainwell is a threat out of the back field. That offense is extremely dangerous.

(Please note I am not wallowing in misery by saying this)
I think the Eagles are pretty easily the best team  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 9:00 am : link
in the division. Felt that during the offseason, seeing it happen now. Been bracing for Hurts taking that next step and it looks to be happening. They looked so much faster than the Vikings, thats what stood out most.
If the Rams and Bucs  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 9:03 am : link
Don’t get it together on offense this year, the Eagles might end up being the best team in the conference let alone division.

Incredibly annoying they were able to win a Super Bowl, rebuild it again into a contender while we’re on our fourth year 1 of a rebuild
RE: I hate the eagles but I am not sure anyone can dismiss that win  
Costy16 : 9/20/2022 9:14 am : link
In comment 15824702 Essex said:
Quote:
Forgetting even the stunning offensive performance, they literally shut down Jefferson and Cook. That is impressive, very impressive. Given their schedule, if they don’t suffer a catastrophic injury, I would be shocked if they don’t win 12-13 games


Giants schedule almost identical to PHI except for three games, but I can see the Eagles being undefeated heading into the bye.

@ Commanders
vs Jaguars
@ Cardinals
vs Cowboys (SNF)
BYE
RE: I think the Eagles are pretty easily the best team  
Essex : 9/20/2022 9:15 am : link
In comment 15824714 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
in the division. Felt that during the offseason, seeing it happen now. Been bracing for Hurts taking that next step and it looks to be happening. They looked so much faster than the Vikings, thats what stood out most.


That isn’t what stood out to me. The thing that I couldn’t understand was what was the Vikings gameplan. They were sitting in a soft zone rushing four. Hurts had all day. He did not make one contested throw until that incompletion that Goeddert dropped. If you are going to sit back in a zone against those receivers you have get pressure on Hurts and make him move
If you play man to man in the secondary, Hurts becomes a lot more of  
Essex : 9/20/2022 9:19 am : link
a liability. He made one throw that was literally two steps behind a crossing AJ Brown who then reached back and grabbed it. If a guy is there playing man it is a pick. You can’t play zone ash isn’t him with that OL
Against him  
Essex : 9/20/2022 9:20 am : link
RE: If you play man to man in the secondary, Hurts becomes a lot more of  
Mike in NY : 9/20/2022 9:24 am : link
In comment 15824742 Essex said:
Quote:
a liability. He made one throw that was literally two steps behind a crossing AJ Brown who then reached back and grabbed it. If a guy is there playing man it is a pick. You can’t play zone ash isn’t him with that OL


It was not just that they were playing zone all game (while some DB's seemed to think they were playing man which is a whole other story), it is that they were not getting anything resembling a pass rush. You can't give any NFL QB all day to throw. Eventually someone will get open.
The problem with playing man to man  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 9:24 am : link
Is your DBs having their backs turned to Hurts
The Titans are not good  
Jerry in_DC : 9/20/2022 9:24 am : link
But who cares? The Giants are not good either. Beating anybody is an accomplishment for the coaching staff with this roster. The organization isn't even really trying to win this year. People should be able to enjoy a win without exaggerating how good the opponent is.
RE: The problem with playing man to man  
Essex : 9/20/2022 9:29 am : link
In comment 15824753 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Is your DBs having their backs turned to Hurts


Yes, but let them run him all game. Plus, you have linebackers and you could put a safety in the box. If you can get him to release the ball quickly he is not a good QB. You sit back and let his receivers get wide open while he is having a scotch back there, then it looks like last night. There is not a QB in the NFL who couldn’t make one throw that he made in the first half. It was the gameplan that let it happen.
I don't know how much you can conclude  
Blue92 : 9/20/2022 9:30 am : link
about Tennessee from this game. Buffalo went into the defending SB champs' house on opening night and pushed them around and didn't even look like they were trying that hard.
They don't seem as good as the last couple of years but I'm not sure they're that bad, either.
its not about whether other QB's can make the throws  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 9:31 am : link
its about how Hurt's legs (threat of running + ability to scramble/buy time) allow those wide open opportunities to happen at a much higher rate than most other QB's in the game.
RE: its not about whether other QB's can make the throws  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 9:34 am : link
In comment 15824774 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
its about how Hurt's legs (threat of running + ability to scramble/buy time) allow those wide open opportunities to happen at a much higher rate than most other QB's in the game.


This. A lot of those guys get to be that wide open because of Hurts ability to move the pocket. There were a number of times he was able to move away from pressure, while keeping his eyes down field, reset himself outside the pocket and hit an open receiver. He’s got a very good feel for moving around to get guys open.
RE: its not about whether other QB's can make the throws  
Essex : 9/20/2022 9:38 am : link
In comment 15824774 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
its about how Hurt's legs (threat of running + ability to scramble/buy time) allow those wide open opportunities to happen at a much higher rate than most other QB's in the game.

Not last night. Last night, the Vikings games plan was he will make a mistake passing, just don’t let him run. So, they sat it in a soft zone, didn’t rush anyone and their OL (their strength) held up long enough for his receivers to find soft spots. If you rush him and okay man, you make get burnt for long runs, but you force him into many more uncomfortable decisions plus you bang him up. if you are going to die a certain way, you would much rather either A) try to have him force throws and B) get hit as opposed to sitting back there and letting him have all day behind their OL. Our second game in Philly last year in the first half was a really good gameplan in stopping him. We got killed because Jake From couldn’t do anything and our defense tired. But a successful game plan against him is to force him to make decisions early
RE: RE: its not about whether other QB's can make the throws  
Essex : 9/20/2022 9:42 am : link
In comment 15824780 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15824774 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


its about how Hurt's legs (threat of running + ability to scramble/buy time) allow those wide open opportunities to happen at a much higher rate than most other QB's in the game.



This. A lot of those guys get to be that wide open because of Hurts ability to move the pocket. There were a number of times he was able to move away from pressure, while keeping his eyes down field, reset himself outside the pocket and hit an open receiver. He’s got a very good feel for moving around to get guys open.


Oh please. I am giving the Eagles and Hurts all the credit for last night. But if you think it was his legs that was giving him time as opposed to Minnesota not rushing the QB and the Eagles OL being stellar, you are not watching the same game I did.
There were multiple instances of Hurts  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 9:47 am : link
Buying time with his legs or even just the threat of Hurts’ legs buying him time. Was it the only reason, no. But the threat of his legs probably had a big part in the Vikings game plan.
RE: There were multiple instances of Hurts  
Essex : 9/20/2022 9:57 am : link
In comment 15824799 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Buying time with his legs or even just the threat of Hurts’ legs buying him time. Was it the only reason, no. But the threat of his legs probably had a big part in the Vikings game plan.

I don't disagree with the last part. I absolutely think that was their gameplan was to drop back and let him make mistakes in the air and the threat of his legs made them do that. But, the fact remains that their gameplan was bad and I would rather let him actually beat you with his legs than let what happened last night happen.

I think he is a good QB and a threat and like Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murrary, who have similar styles you have to play them a certain way to beat them. I do think that as we have seen with those QBs as well as the season goes on (except for Lamar's MVP year) they kind of wear down. Remember the Cards start last year. And I think Murray is better (not by much) than Hurts. So, that gives me some hope that this will dial down, but as I said before their win was 1) impressive and 2) their schedule is very favorable for them to go on a huge run like 2017
the Vikings looked shell shocked  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 9:58 am : link
they could have slowed the game down with the run game but gave up on that completely when they weren't even down that big. Just don't think Zimmer has it.
I think Hurts  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 9:59 am : link
Has a better feel for playing QB than Murray but Murray is the better thrower in terms of physical traits.
RE: the Vikings looked shell shocked  
Essex : 9/20/2022 10:02 am : link
In comment 15824817 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
they could have slowed the game down with the run game but gave up on that completely when they weren't even down that big. Just don't think Zimmer has it.

He is not there coach anymore, but their Rookie coach looked shellshocked (O'Connell)
the difference in personnel  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 10:03 am : link
between the Cardinals and Eagles is staggering. I think the Cardinals have close to a bottom 5 offense without Murray.
RE: RE: the Vikings looked shell shocked  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2022 10:04 am : link
In comment 15824824 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15824817 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


they could have slowed the game down with the run game but gave up on that completely when they weren't even down that big. Just don't think Zimmer has it.


He is not there coach anymore, but their Rookie coach looked shellshocked (O'Connell)


Fuck, you are right, forgot about that. I guess that would explain why they looked completely out of their league.
The Vikings defense is awful.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/20/2022 10:04 am : link
That's a significant part of this as much as anything else.
And also we should not act like the Vikings did not  
Essex : 9/20/2022 10:08 am : link
have chances. They had two red zone turnovers and a drop on a ball where it was a walk in touchdown. They also gifted the Eagles points when they called timeout on third down. The Vikings were nothing short of positively awful last night--that has to be taken into the equation.
RE: the difference in personnel  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 10:25 am : link
In comment 15824826 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
between the Cardinals and Eagles is staggering. I think the Cardinals have close to a bottom 5 offense without Murray.


Yea, the Eagles offense is loaded, they probably could have been fine not even trading for Brown
My major takeaway from the game is that the Eagles lines,  
PatersonPlank : 9/20/2022 10:28 am : link
both offense and defense, are really good. They gave Hurts days of time, they opened holes for the running attack, and the Vikings couldn't do anything at all on the ground.
RE: RE: If you play man to man in the secondary, Hurts becomes a lot more of  
bw in dc : 9/20/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15824752 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15824742 Essex said:

It was not just that they were playing zone all game (while some DB's seemed to think they were playing man which is a whole other story), it is that they were not getting anything resembling a pass rush. You can't give any NFL QB all day to throw. Eventually someone will get open.


I thought about this, too. I wonder if the gameplan was to drop back in zone, keep Hurts in the pocket, and force him to beat them with his arm.

It's not a bad idea, actually. The Bucs did that to him in the Wildcard game last year.

But you can't stay in Vanilla essentially the entire game. Some mixed coverages are still necessary. And Hurts was still able to get on his horse with 11 carries and 50+ yards. So, that was a miss, too.

I need to see more from Hurts to be convinced he's the solution. You give any QB in the NFL that much time - and same Vanilla approach - and damage will be done.
I didn't think their pass rush was that bad...  
BillKo : 9/20/2022 12:05 pm : link
...I mean, they did hit Hurts quite a bit.

But Aikman made it quite clear, they were playing a bubble and just allowing WRs to sit in the open areas. A ton of pitch and catch. Very basic. The pass rush can only get there so fast esp against a good OL.

Now, Hurts did make some nice throws too. Again, consistency with him is the key.

But the biggest failure was the Vikings coaching staff as a whole - for as much credit as they got on opening day, that gave it all back on Monday night.
RE: If the Rams and Bucs  
NINEster : 9/20/2022 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15824715 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Don’t get it together on offense this year, the Eagles might end up being the best team in the conference let alone division.

Incredibly annoying they were able to win a Super Bowl, rebuild it again into a contender while we’re on our fourth year 1 of a rebuild


Don't worry, the Eagles won't have enough offense to get past the Niners in the playoffs.
......  
Route 9 : 9/20/2022 4:48 pm : link
Wow! Eagles! Best team in the conference??

This is quite a jump from last year. Beat the Lions and the Vikings (lead by Kirk Cousins who is 0-59 on Primetime) and you're now the toast of the town.

Now the 49ers are going to save the day?
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