Larry Brooks
@NYP_Brooksie
·
2m
Nils Lundqvist to Dallas for top-10 protected 2023 first rounder. Confirmed. If it’s top 10 pick rolls over to 2024 without restriction. Could be another component coming to NYR.
Sergei Zubov! I like him more than Jones. Left, right...big deal. If I were Lundqvist I would have worked all off season playing on the left and come to camp fighting for that 3rd pair left side. But apparently he didn't want to play in New York anymore, being blocked from top 4 on right side for next few years at least. I was pissed at another young, entitled euro pu$$y who was a baby and didn't fight and earn a spot and just wanted out. But after getting a first rounder for him, that makes this hurt much less. But you guys have to remember this is our top prospect. He has a ton of skill and has the potential to be top 4, PP QB d-man still. Odds are Dallas gets the better end of this deal, as 2nd half of 1st round guys are a crap-shoot. But we couldn't have done much better than this.
IOW, he's redundant. I feel like you can only use so many of these guys, especially the smaller ones, because most of them are defensive liabilities (Fox really isn't, but most are) and their value shines mostly on the PP.
And also I view Othmann and Cuylle as just as good prospects.
There was no pathway for Lundkvist on this team, so it's nice to get a first rounder (potentially an unconditional one) for someone who wasn't in our long-term plans.
Kakko to take a leap. You can see it when he plays, the skills are all there. Bigger PF types take longer to develop look at CK. Laffy needs to be a 60pt player for next year and I’d like to see Kakko a 40-50 range. If this team is going to have success those 2 need to step up.
If given the opportunity with the top 6 could surprise some people. KK on the other hand might be trade bait at the deadline. The scratch in the playoffs speaks volumes. He is not a favorite of Gallant for sure.
Kakko to take a leap. You can see it when he plays, the skills are all there. Bigger PF types take longer to develop look at CK. Laffy needs to be a 60pt player for next year and I’d like to see Kakko a 40-50 range. If this team is going to have success those 2 need to step up.
I hope you’re right about KK but let’s be fair to kreider he was pretty damn productive right out of the gate. That first postseason he was on fire. I hear you though, some PF types take a while to develop. Big year for him.
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
RE: The biggest question with the team is right wing
Kreider was two weeks from his 21st birthday when he played his first NHL game in those playoffs - Kakko turned 21 in February.
I think COVID really screwed with the development of some of these guys.
It's going to be hard for Lafreniere to put up the stats people expect with no PP #1 time. His 5v5 stats are pretty comparable to Stutzle (and I think even a little better).
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
You told us the same thing about Lias. He busted
Brooks has a good point - this Dallas 1st rounder means they can trade a 1st rounder at the trade deadline for someone like Kane or other help
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
You told us the same thing about Lias. He busted
Brooks has a good point - this Dallas 1st rounder means they can trade a 1st rounder at the trade deadline for someone like Kane or other help
IMO, 33 year old Patrick Kane would not be worth a top 10 protected first round draft pick.
I think Kakko's actually already a good NHL player - he is elite defensively, drives possession. He's already a solid middle-six winger - but yes, we didn't want to draft Jesper Fast #2 overall, lol.
I'd bet he at least turns into a 50-60 point guy. Not sure if he gets to the 70-80 points we were hoping when he was drafted.
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
You told us the same thing about Lias. He busted
Brooks has a good point - this Dallas 1st rounder means they can trade a 1st rounder at the trade deadline for someone like Kane or other help
IMO, 33 year old Patrick Kane would not be worth a top 10 protected first round draft pick.
So trade the Rangers 1st round pick which is likely to be in the high 20's.
I think it's a good return under the circumstances, with Lundkvist demanding a trade. I'm still not thrilled with how they handled him. You can't saddle a rookie to an absolute anchor around the neck like Nemeth and then bitch that he's not producing the way you want him to. I expect him to blossom in Dallas.
Dallas is a team in limbo at the moment with a lot of aging veterans. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see this pick need to roll over to 2024 because it was in the top 10 for 2023, and then we've got a shot at a very high pick in '24. And if not, then it's likely a pick in the teens in what's regarded as a very strong '23 draft. Nice deal.
I don't really blame the Rangers for this. Not sure what they're supposed to do. Some of these kids just believe they're supposed to be handed playing time and a roster spot - there isn't a clear path for him right now.
He comes off as immature and I don't think he's progressed quite as much as the team had been hoping.
Besides, Drury really didn't have a ton of leverage here. To get this return with that in mind, I'm more than happy with it
sucks other than the top 2 or 3 teams, so Dallas *should* make the playoffs, transferring the pick this year, if their veteran players can stay healthy (something they have not done recently).
A full season of Oettinger as the starter should also help them - especially if he plays like he did in the playoffs last year. That Calgary vs Dallas series was awesome.
I don't really blame the Rangers for this. Not sure what they're supposed to do. Some of these kids just believe they're supposed to be handed playing time and a roster spot - there isn't a clear path for him right now.
He comes off as immature and I don't think he's progressed quite as much as the team had been hoping.
Besides, Drury really didn't have a ton of leverage here. To get this return with that in mind, I'm more than happy with it
I'm fine with the return but I think the Rangers have to figure out why prospects keep asking for trades. Additionally the organizations ability to develop forwards has been poor.
I don't really blame the Rangers for this. Not sure what they're supposed to do. Some of these kids just believe they're supposed to be handed playing time and a roster spot - there isn't a clear path for him right now.
He comes off as immature and I don't think he's progressed quite as much as the team had been hoping.
Besides, Drury really didn't have a ton of leverage here. To get this return with that in mind, I'm more than happy with it
I'm fine with the return but I think the Rangers have to figure out why prospects keep asking for trades. Additionally the organizations ability to develop forwards has been poor.
Has it really been a recurring issue to the point where it seems like an organizational flaw, though? I don't feel like it has happened here much more often than it generally does around the league, but I could be forgetting an instance or two. It seems like things with Kravtsov have mostly been ironed out.
Three first round picks requesting trades in three years is excessive. Both Kravtsov and Andersson made comments about having issues in Hartford - as if the franchise didn't invest sufficient resources in making them comfortable.
Kravtsov walked his back fortunately but the whole thing smells weird.
that's 3 out of 5 1st round picks in a two year period who became disgruntled and had various other issues.
I think it is an issue that needs to be addressed - and maybe it has.
but there was zero value recognized from the ELC on any of those players. When you build a contender, it's much easier to add the missing player (off season or deadline) when you have cap space because you are getting contribution from players on their ELC.
For all we know the issues left with Gorton and co, but if not it absolutely should be addressed.
I always maintain that hockey draft is like baseball because the players are so young and not fully developed physically, mentally, or emotionally yet, so there *is* a high NHL draft bust rate, but there are also things an organization can do to develop those three areas and protect their investment.
Lias Andersson simply was a bad pick. Scouting failure more than anything else.
Kravtsov was handled poorly by the organization, but there's more to it than just that. He apparently has the hockey parents from hell who have been whispering in his ear for years that he was too good to play in the minors and that he should come back to Russia rather than play in Hartford, over his agent's strenuous objections. Hopefully that's all in the past now.
As I said earlier, I really don't like how they handled Lundkvist and I'm already kind of sick and tired of Gallant's obsession with defenseman size over every other attribute.
Lias Andersson simply was a bad pick. Scouting failure more than anything else.
Kravtsov was handled poorly by the organization, but there's more to it than just that. He apparently has the hockey parents from hell who have been whispering in his ear for years that he was too good to play in the minors and that he should come back to Russia rather than play in Hartford, over his agent's strenuous objections. Hopefully that's all in the past now.
As I said earlier, I really don't like how they handled Lundkvist and I'm already kind of sick and tired of Gallant's obsession with defenseman size over every other attribute.
The AHL is not a great league for player development IMO for many players.
The Rangers mistake was not "knowing what they had" with either Andersson or Kravtsov IMO (or even Lundkvist I guess).
Because once you sign them to an ELC the clock starts ticking and puts pressure on you as a team and the player as well.
Kravtsov should not have come over here and started his ELC if he was not a lock for the Rangers. I don't think he's one of those players who needs to get familiar with the NA rink size.
The KHL is a better league than the AHL.
KHL, SHL, Liiga, all IMO better than the AHL especially for skill players who have some things they need to develop.
The AHL is really good for players you want to get familiar with the physicality differences or rehab assignments or NA players who age out of NCAA or juniors.
Just my opinion, but that's where the issues started - maybe even with all three players (Lundkvist signed his ELC in 2021). Lundkvist won the Swedish league Norris trophy (kind of), I believe the youngest ever to win it, but he should play in the AHL?
Chris Drury solved one roster issue on Monday night when he fulfilled Nils Lundkvist’s eight-month-old trade request, sending the 22-year-old defenseman to the Stars for a top-10 protected 2023 first-round pick and a conditional 2025 fourth-rounder. It was a tidy bit of business for the Rangers GM given Lundkvist wasn’t coming to the training camp that starts on Thursday; that Drury, who had been offered a high second-round pick for Lundkvist as far back as the March trade deadline, held out for a first and got it was shrewd.
What is a "protected" first round pick? What does that actually mean? Thanks in advance.
It wears a condom, rnargi. You should have covered this in sex ed.
In this case it means if the Stars are a bottom ten team - and therefore pick ten or higher - the draft pick becomes a 2024 first rounder - which is unprotected. The 2023 pick is top ten protected, the 2024 pick is unprotected. I think this is more common in the NBA.
The Stars can simply not make the playoffs in 2022-2023 (but not necessarily have one of the 10 worst records), and then in the draft lottery move in to the top 10 in which case the Stars pick would be protected from the trade and stay with the Stars and the Rangers would get the Stars 2024 1st round pick unconditionally.
Colin Stephenson
@ColinSNewsday
Talking to Gerard Gallant at the first day of camp. Lafreniere starting at LW tomorrow, Kid Line reunited. Kravtsov starting at RW with Panarin and Trocheck. Goodrow won't play in preseason games, coming off injury in playoffs. He's OK though, and will practice. Blais is 100%.
They still have no top line RW, I like Kravtsov with Panarin, keep the kid line together to see if the playoff magic can extend into this season - especially since Laf is the only one of those 3 who would deserve top 6 ice time
But they now have 2 first rounders to peddle for a RW sniper at the trade deadline
And if Kravtsov can produce, that alleviates not having a bigtime RW on the other line
@NYP_Brooksie
·
2m
Nils Lundqvist to Dallas for top-10 protected 2023 first rounder. Confirmed. If it’s top 10 pick rolls over to 2024 without restriction. Could be another component coming to NYR.
Hope he does well.
IOW, he's redundant. I feel like you can only use so many of these guys, especially the smaller ones, because most of them are defensive liabilities (Fox really isn't, but most are) and their value shines mostly on the PP.
And also I view Othmann and Cuylle as just as good prospects.
Yep. Pretty much the same sitch as last year
And it's year two for Gallant and his system so everyone will be more comfortable
I hope you’re right about KK but let’s be fair to kreider he was pretty damn productive right out of the gate. That first postseason he was on fire. I hear you though, some PF types take a while to develop. Big year for him.
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
Notably, Laf has struggled at this. But it's the only way he's breaking into the top six and staying consistently.
I think COVID really screwed with the development of some of these guys.
It's going to be hard for Lafreniere to put up the stats people expect with no PP #1 time. His 5v5 stats are pretty comparable to Stutzle (and I think even a little better).
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
You told us the same thing about Lias. He busted
Brooks has a good point - this Dallas 1st rounder means they can trade a 1st rounder at the trade deadline for someone like Kane or other help
everyone doesn't pan out as expected for a lot of reasons.
I think Kakko will be a good NHL player, you don't.
I never claimed by opinion was a fact.
everyone doesn't pan out as expected for a lot of reasons.
I think Kakko will be a good NHL player, you don't.
I never claimed by opinion was a fact.
*my opinion
Quote:
is going to be fine if he stays healthy.
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
You told us the same thing about Lias. He busted
Brooks has a good point - this Dallas 1st rounder means they can trade a 1st rounder at the trade deadline for someone like Kane or other help
IMO, 33 year old Patrick Kane would not be worth a top 10 protected first round draft pick.
I'd bet he at least turns into a 50-60 point guy. Not sure if he gets to the 70-80 points we were hoping when he was drafted.
Quote:
In comment 15824661 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is going to be fine if he stays healthy.
He is nothing like Kreider though. In many ways opposite.
I feel like if you could combine two players like Kreider (oozing athleticism, speed, size, skill) and Kakko (off the chart IQ great defensively) you'd wind up with a player like Mario Lemieux. The Fins are known for their fundamentals and discipline (and Kakko is no exception), those are two traits Kreider is not exactly known for (though both have improved over his career).
but even if Kreider is "just" Kreider and Kakko "just" Kakko they are both now or have the potential to be really good NHL players.
I think it's good to have goal/point goals for Kakko, I bet he does for himself, but for a player like him it will never be the whole story in the value he provides.
You told us the same thing about Lias. He busted
Brooks has a good point - this Dallas 1st rounder means they can trade a 1st rounder at the trade deadline for someone like Kane or other help
IMO, 33 year old Patrick Kane would not be worth a top 10 protected first round draft pick.
So trade the Rangers 1st round pick which is likely to be in the high 20's.
Just saying it doesn't need to be DAL pick.
He comes off as immature and I don't think he's progressed quite as much as the team had been hoping.
Besides, Drury really didn't have a ton of leverage here. To get this return with that in mind, I'm more than happy with it
A full season of Oettinger as the starter should also help them - especially if he plays like he did in the playoffs last year. That Calgary vs Dallas series was awesome.
He comes off as immature and I don't think he's progressed quite as much as the team had been hoping.
Besides, Drury really didn't have a ton of leverage here. To get this return with that in mind, I'm more than happy with it
I'm fine with the return but I think the Rangers have to figure out why prospects keep asking for trades. Additionally the organizations ability to develop forwards has been poor.
Kane has control of where he goes and his #1 is the Rangers. He loves Panarin, says the most fun he had in hockey was playing with Bread.
Quote:
I don't really blame the Rangers for this. Not sure what they're supposed to do. Some of these kids just believe they're supposed to be handed playing time and a roster spot - there isn't a clear path for him right now.
He comes off as immature and I don't think he's progressed quite as much as the team had been hoping.
Besides, Drury really didn't have a ton of leverage here. To get this return with that in mind, I'm more than happy with it
I'm fine with the return but I think the Rangers have to figure out why prospects keep asking for trades. Additionally the organizations ability to develop forwards has been poor.
Has it really been a recurring issue to the point where it seems like an organizational flaw, though? I don't feel like it has happened here much more often than it generally does around the league, but I could be forgetting an instance or two. It seems like things with Kravtsov have mostly been ironed out.
I agree with the latter point about the forwards.
Kravtsov walked his back fortunately but the whole thing smells weird.
Kravtsov
Lundkvist
two of them were top 10 picks.
that's 3 out of 5 1st round picks in a two year period who became disgruntled and had various other issues.
I think it is an issue that needs to be addressed - and maybe it has.
but there was zero value recognized from the ELC on any of those players. When you build a contender, it's much easier to add the missing player (off season or deadline) when you have cap space because you are getting contribution from players on their ELC.
For all we know the issues left with Gorton and co, but if not it absolutely should be addressed.
I always maintain that hockey draft is like baseball because the players are so young and not fully developed physically, mentally, or emotionally yet, so there *is* a high NHL draft bust rate, but there are also things an organization can do to develop those three areas and protect their investment.
Lias Andersson simply was a bad pick. Scouting failure more than anything else.
Kravtsov was handled poorly by the organization, but there's more to it than just that. He apparently has the hockey parents from hell who have been whispering in his ear for years that he was too good to play in the minors and that he should come back to Russia rather than play in Hartford, over his agent's strenuous objections. Hopefully that's all in the past now.
As I said earlier, I really don't like how they handled Lundkvist and I'm already kind of sick and tired of Gallant's obsession with defenseman size over every other attribute.
Lias Andersson simply was a bad pick. Scouting failure more than anything else.
Kravtsov was handled poorly by the organization, but there's more to it than just that. He apparently has the hockey parents from hell who have been whispering in his ear for years that he was too good to play in the minors and that he should come back to Russia rather than play in Hartford, over his agent's strenuous objections. Hopefully that's all in the past now.
As I said earlier, I really don't like how they handled Lundkvist and I'm already kind of sick and tired of Gallant's obsession with defenseman size over every other attribute.
The AHL is not a great league for player development IMO for many players.
The Rangers mistake was not "knowing what they had" with either Andersson or Kravtsov IMO (or even Lundkvist I guess).
Because once you sign them to an ELC the clock starts ticking and puts pressure on you as a team and the player as well.
Kravtsov should not have come over here and started his ELC if he was not a lock for the Rangers. I don't think he's one of those players who needs to get familiar with the NA rink size.
The KHL is a better league than the AHL.
KHL, SHL, Liiga, all IMO better than the AHL especially for skill players who have some things they need to develop.
The AHL is really good for players you want to get familiar with the physicality differences or rehab assignments or NA players who age out of NCAA or juniors.
Just my opinion, but that's where the issues started - maybe even with all three players (Lundkvist signed his ELC in 2021). Lundkvist won the Swedish league Norris trophy (kind of), I believe the youngest ever to win it, but he should play in the AHL?
Doesn't make sense.
AHL is perfect for that, clearly Kravtsov didn't believe that
The Athletic - ( New Window )
It wears a condom, rnargi. You should have covered this in sex ed.
In this case it means if the Stars are a bottom ten team - and therefore pick ten or higher - the draft pick becomes a 2024 first rounder - which is unprotected. The 2023 pick is top ten protected, the 2024 pick is unprotected. I think this is more common in the NBA.
The Stars can simply not make the playoffs in 2022-2023 (but not necessarily have one of the 10 worst records), and then in the draft lottery move in to the top 10 in which case the Stars pick would be protected from the trade and stay with the Stars and the Rangers would get the Stars 2024 1st round pick unconditionally.
I've actually never seen a deal structured the way you're describing but I could be misremembering. This deal is definitely the way pj described it.
@ColinSNewsday
Talking to Gerard Gallant at the first day of camp. Lafreniere starting at LW tomorrow, Kid Line reunited. Kravtsov starting at RW with Panarin and Trocheck. Goodrow won't play in preseason games, coming off injury in playoffs. He's OK though, and will practice. Blais is 100%.
Yeah, I don't think that'll last very long...
They still have no top line RW, I like Kravtsov with Panarin, keep the kid line together to see if the playoff magic can extend into this season - especially since Laf is the only one of those 3 who would deserve top 6 ice time
But they now have 2 first rounders to peddle for a RW sniper at the trade deadline
And if Kravtsov can produce, that alleviates not having a bigtime RW on the other line