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Sy'56's Giants-Panthers Game Review

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/20/2022 8:49 am
FYI...


Game Review: New York Giants 19 – Carolina Panthers 16 - ( New Window )
God, That Was A Great Read  
HMunster : 9/20/2022 8:59 am : link
Thanks, Sy.
I agree with your point on Jones, I think he sees the  
PatersonPlank : 9/20/2022 9:13 am : link
receivers and field but he is conservative and doesn't take risks until he has too. He can make the throws, but its likely burned into him at this point by previous coaches not to get interceptions and take chances. This is why you see him usually go the safe route until he has to make a play, and then all of a sudden he puts together a drive with a few big throws. We'll see if Daboll/Kafka can get his approach to be more aggressive
About Rhule  
cosmicj : 9/20/2022 9:15 am : link
I told you so. Sure, the Giants made an even worse hire, but Rhule wasn’t the solution.

Disappointing eval of Flott.
Sy'56  
M.S. : 9/20/2022 9:15 am : link

much appreciate your thoughts/insights!

At the end you mentioned a lack of pocket for Daniel Jones to step up into. So true! Almost every pass play, it looked like the Giants interior line was being compressed inward. Hard to see our passing attack improve if that problem is not fixed.
Thanks for the report.  
Gruber : 9/20/2022 9:18 am : link
I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.
Great review and I agree with your Jones take  
Sean : 9/20/2022 9:23 am : link
Down 13-6, Jones was excellent in that drive. He was assertive and stepped into his throws. The handful of running plays is a big plus too.

I’m concerned though that we are seeing some of the same stuff at the end of Eli’s career. After years of awful OL play, Eli got gun shy and missed throws he should have taken. Starting to see that with Jones a bit too.

I do worry Judge coached a lot of his aggressiveness out of him in order to control turnovers. I don’t mind turnovers as long as it comes with some explosive plays.
Yep, G-C-G is the key to our season.  
CT Charlie : 9/20/2022 9:24 am : link
Other teams are going to load up the middle, and DJ will have no pocket to step into. Worse, he won't be able to throw to the middle of the field with hands in his face. He'll only be able to slide left or right (not his strength) or scramble to the outside.

We'll need to rely on outlets – and Saquon is a good one to have – but in pass pro he's part of the problem, and as an outlet he'll usually be shadowed by a defender.

This off season, C + G (plus cornerback) will be a priority.
thank you Sy.  
ATL_Giants : 9/20/2022 9:25 am : link
Avg of 20 pts a game isn't going to cut.
2 of 3 dudes are on the OL. *ugh*

Feels like we're on the plus side of coaching talent and prep.
But still behind the curve when it comes to talent on the field.
Was in the upper deck  
The_Boss : 9/20/2022 9:26 am : link
Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.
RE: Great review and I agree with your Jones take  
nygiants16 : 9/20/2022 9:30 am : link
In comment 15824749 Sean said:
Quote:
Down 13-6, Jones was excellent in that drive. He was assertive and stepped into his throws. The handful of running plays is a big plus too.

I’m concerned though that we are seeing some of the same stuff at the end of Eli’s career. After years of awful OL play, Eli got gun shy and missed throws he should have taken. Starting to see that with Jones a bit too.

I do worry Judge coached a lot of his aggressiveness out of him in order to control turnovers. I don’t mind turnovers as long as it comes with some explosive plays.


I dont think its OL that has made him gun shy, i think it was the Joe Judge era that made hik gun shy..

They basically had an offense that told him just dont turn the ball over and that is in his head, i thjnk Daboll is trying to get that out of him..

You hesrd Daboll say in the offseason they want Jones to take chances

RE: Was in the upper deck  
nygiants16 : 9/20/2022 9:31 am : link
In comment 15824760 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.


I think Jones sees it but he doesnt take chances
RE: RE: Was in the upper deck  
PatersonPlank : 9/20/2022 9:33 am : link
In comment 15824775 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15824760 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.



I think Jones sees it but he doesnt take chances


Yep me too. This is why he does it sometimes and not others. One thing we know is that if Daboll can't change him, he will move on. Daboll doesn't seem to have any issues moving on from big name players
Great as always....  
dschwarz in westchester : 9/20/2022 9:34 am : link
.... anyone have an update on Shane Lemieux or Nick Gates? Do we have any hope of seeing Gates this year?

I don't think either is a savior per se, but getting more options for the interior line to play with combos would be nice.
Jones has the talent  
nygiants16 : 9/20/2022 9:35 am : link
the throw to Richie James was threading the needle, it was a hell of a throw and then he had a throw i think to sills over the defender, off the back foot..not many QBs can make that throw..

I can live with INTs if you are being agressive and in the end you are throwing 2 or 3 tds a game..

I can take INTs when you are being a game manager and Jones needs to realize this, open it up
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/20/2022 9:42 am : link
i think Judge and Garrett were so afraid of not losing/making a mistake that a lot of that rubbed off on Jones
RE: Was in the upper deck  
Rory : 9/20/2022 9:44 am : link
In comment 15824760 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.


just because the guy is open doesnt mean he ran the right route. I have a feeling this is giving Jones a moment to pause and why he keeps going to Shepard who he trusts.
RE: ...  
nygiants16 : 9/20/2022 9:44 am : link
In comment 15824793 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i think Judge and Garrett were so afraid of not losing/making a mistake that a lot of that rubbed off on Jones


Judge coached like he had an elite defense and could just win 17-7 games every week
In his review, Sy stated that he felt  
rnargi : 9/20/2022 9:47 am : link
greater than 80% of the passing game woes falls on the G C G situation. That leaves less than 20% on Jones.

There is questions regarding Jones' ability to see the field well enough.

Which is it? Combo of both? If the vast majority of the issue is the line directly in front of him, how could he be expected to "take chances"? You can't step into a long ball if there is no time to do so. Hence, the back foot throw comments from some. Frankly, when Jones had time, he went downfield with authority. Look at the throws on the TD drive when he had a little time. He looked damned good on that drive.

I'd like to see ONE game with Jones having an average to above average clean pocket. Just one.
Sy'  
Biteymax22 : 9/20/2022 9:48 am : link
In describing the Panthers long term outlook at QB, I fear you've also described ours.

As of yet, I don't see it from Jones and I'd give him a similar moniker that you did for Mayfield, a back up somewhere next season. Yet with a 2-0 start and looking at some other teams in the league, I don't see us bad enough to be in a position to draft "our guy" next year.

Knowing its early, do you think next year's QB crop will be good enough where we can get someone if we picked in the 10-12 range?
I'm not a Jones defender but I think he has PTSD from his first 3+ yrs  
Rick in Dallas : 9/20/2022 9:52 am : link
He has been sacked 113 times in his career in 40 games.Don't know how many pressures he has faced but the OL play in front of him as been poor.
Having said that DJ needs to let it rip downfield if he does see open WR's. The question is does he see those open WR's.
Don't know...
For me...I actually think Brederson is a better OG than Lemieux.
The Giants OL will have issues against the Cowboys front 7 defensive speed if they play the same way next week.

Sy you continue to add unbelievable value to BBI.
I will not get into the Jones debate  
jvm52106 : 9/20/2022 9:58 am : link
because nobody here is unbiased (one way or the other) but let's talk the CGG combo. I think feciano is injured. He had a leg injury in camp and then for week 1. I think he is having a hard time anchoring.

The LG situation needs to get better for sure and Glowinski I think will be better when the Center is a bit stronger (whether through health or a switch).

Other than Gano  
AG5686 : 9/20/2022 9:59 am : link
How would ya'll grade the special teams play
RE: Great as always....  
Ivan15 : 9/20/2022 10:03 am : link
In comment 15824781 dschwarz in westchester said:
Quote:
.... anyone have an update on Shane Lemieux or Nick Gates? Do we have any hope of seeing Gates this year?

I don't think either is a savior per se, but getting more options for the interior line to play with combos would be nice.

_____________________________________________________
You have to hope they don’t need to rush Gates back before he is really ready. That won’t go well. Unless Lemieux has improved quite a bit by recovery from being out last year and this year, he becomes just another body to try out at LG (and maybe Center). Bredeson and Lemieux at LG and C may be better than Feliciano and anyone.
_____________________________________________________
Thanks Sy  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/20/2022 10:12 am : link
The interior is a big issue. The run game needs to be more consistent. Being in 2nd/3rd and long has been a decade problem and it highlights all the Giants weaknesses; combo Jones, WR's and poor pass blocking. Staff has to find ways to win first down imv.

The D has the ability to keep games close but the offense has to get more points.

I think this Dallas game is huge with Chicago the following week 4-0 puts them in a good situation.
Daboll - WRs  
cjd2404 : 9/20/2022 10:14 am : link
Regardless of QB. Is there any thoughts to Daboll's WR rotation that might also hamper a QB in the passing game? We always hear about how important the Summer QB camps are to gain trust between QB and WR, and to gain timing with routes, etc.

Has DJ gained that timing and trust with this group? Outside of Shep, and maybe James... I don't see it.

We know DJ, OL need to get better, but are we hampering ourselves with the WR rotation?
Excellent!  
Lowell : 9/20/2022 10:17 am : link
Sy!
RE: RE: Great as always....  
dschwarz in westchester : 9/20/2022 10:19 am : link
In comment 15824825 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15824781 dschwarz in westchester said:


Quote:


.... anyone have an update on Shane Lemieux or Nick Gates? Do we have any hope of seeing Gates this year?

I don't think either is a savior per se, but getting more options for the interior line to play with combos would be nice.


_____________________________________________________
You have to hope they don’t need to rush Gates back before he is really ready. That won’t go well. Unless Lemieux has improved quite a bit by recovery from being out last year and this year, he becomes just another body to try out at LG (and maybe Center). Bredeson and Lemieux at LG and C may be better than Feliciano and anyone.
_____________________________________________________


Yeah, I'm not expecting either to be a huge/immediate upgrade. Mostly would like to have some options and was curious. Gates in particular looked really good, but given the injury and his time off, I agree that our expectations should be limited.
Daboll needs to try to get Jones back to 2019  
Chris684 : 9/20/2022 10:22 am : link
levels of output without the fumbling. If he can do that, maybe you've got a guy who is, while not a star, someone you can win with.

I got a chuckle out of one line "a questionable approach by McAdoo" You can say that about his entire 2nd year here.
Per 'Sy  
Harvest Blend : 9/20/2022 10:31 am : link
"Guard, Center, Guard. Play better." Ain't that the truth.

Thanks for the great review.
Awesome review as always Sy, and a question...  
Johnny5 : 9/20/2022 10:36 am : link
Do you think Daboll (and maybe Kafka) is coaching Jones at specific points in these games to be more aggressive and let it rip? Basically trying to coach him slowly out of his shell that he seems to have pulled into these last couple of years? Because he does look like a different guy on a select few drives in these first two games.
Thank you Sy......Awesome reading  
GiantBlue : 9/20/2022 10:38 am : link
I appreciate you and your thoughts!
This offense runs a lot of clear outs. These aren’t first reads, but  
Returning Video Tapes : 9/20/2022 10:40 am : link
generally last resort. The interior needs to start playing better to hit these because dbacks are taking risks down hill because they know we can’t pass protect a lick right now.

I’m not really expecting this to get better which is why it’s really important to get KT fully with the program. Of course we played two teams with tough dynamic interior players, the Boys don’t have that so will be an interesting watch.

The deep shots we are going to get this year are going to come off PA when the run game is working and crappier interior DLs.
Jihad Ward  
g-baby : 9/20/2022 10:54 am : link
What a pleasure he has been to watch. I'll admit i thought he was a bit of a throwaway backup signing and was nervous after the OLB injuries, but this guy has been playing a supremely physical and energetic brand of ball.

Players like this bring the juice and energy to a whole unit. Seems like a great glue guy on the field and in the locker room. Refreshing to see.
The “PTSD” excuse  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 10:59 am : link
Is a cop out. So is the Judge coached him to be conservative one. If he’s supposed to be a franchise QB he’d adjust. How many backups do we see bounce from system to system each year and step in on a weeks notice and perform?

If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.
That Dex play  
Aaroninma : 9/20/2022 11:05 am : link
was a ridiculous show of athleticism. Almost couldnt beleive I was seeing it live.

Great  
AcidTest : 9/20/2022 11:06 am : link
review.

Is it Jones or is it the OL? The answer to this question has become one of the most fervent debates in the history of BBI. The answer is most likely both. Jones doesn't see the whole field and misses seeing open receivers even when he has time. But he frequently does not have enough time because his OL can't pass block. I think he's the most pressured QB through two games. Knowing that might encourage him to throw the ball within one or two seconds even when his OL gives him more time. His WRs are also pedestrian, which mean it typically takes them longer to separate.

Jones is a FA after this season. Retaining him on the FT will cost $32M IIRC. I don't expect him to play well enough to justify using the FT on him, or to sign him to a long-term contract. And if that happens, then we may never have a definitive answer to this question, but at least we won't need to wonder about it anymore.
This game was a great example  
Daniel in MI : 9/20/2022 11:08 am : link
Of how to win, you first have to stop beating yourselves.

Carolina beat themselves with turnovers, drops, missed throws, and penalties. The game was there to be won and they didn’t.

The Giants managed to avoid beating themselves, and sprinkled in enough good plays to take it.

Sy, do you think our slow starts on O are partially Kafka using formations etc to feel out how the opponents will respond. (The scripted starts.) But since we’re not sustaining early drives we’re still doing that into the 2nd quarter?
RE: Great  
AG5686 : 9/20/2022 11:09 am : link
In comment 15824920 AcidTest said:
Quote:
review.

Is it Jones or is it the OL? The answer to this question has become one of the most fervent debates in the history of BBI. The answer is most likely both. Jones doesn't see the whole field and misses seeing open receivers even when he has time. But he frequently does not have enough time because his OL can't pass block. I think he's the most pressured QB through two games. Knowing that might encourage him to throw the ball within one or two seconds even when his OL gives him more time. His WRs are also pedestrian, which mean it typically takes them longer to separate.

Jones is a FA after this season. Retaining him on the FT will cost $32M IIRC. I don't expect him to play well enough to justify using the FT on him, or to sign him to a long-term contract. And if that happens, then we may never have a definitive answer to this question, but at least we won't need to wonder about it anymore.

That
McAdoo is such a train wreck  
djm : 9/20/2022 11:09 am : link
how on earth this guy is allowed to handle an NFL offense I will never know. He's had ONE year that could be considered good, 2015 with NYG and that success was 100% attributed to a super human effort from OBJ and underrated play from Eli Manning. Every other year his offenses have SUCKED. Further, 2017 should be a permanent scarlet letter in my eyes. McAdoo presided over one of the more visible and scarring organizational breakdowns and it was his offense that led the charge.

RE: McAdoo is such a train wreck  
djm : 9/20/2022 11:10 am : link
In comment 15824929 djm said:
Quote:
how on earth this guy is allowed to handle an NFL offense I will never know. He's had ONE year that could be considered good, 2015 with NYG and that success was 100% attributed to a super human effort from OBJ and underrated play from Eli Manning. Every other year his offenses have SUCKED. Further, 2017 should be a permanent scarlet letter in my eyes. McAdoo presided over one of the more visible and scarring organizational breakdowns and it was his offense that led the charge.


No to mention 2015 was under Coughlin who always had a big hand in the offense.
I don't like picking flaws after Giants win  
kdog77 : 9/20/2022 11:20 am : link
especially when they play gritty on defense, but watching Mayfield last week made me wonder how long can the Giants realistically wait for Jones to "get it" before they move on? Mayfield was the #1 overall pick in 2018 and he has some positive attributes but he just doesn't make the Panthers a better team. I appreciate Sy's brutally honest review of the OL but assigning blame for bad individual plays after the fact is easier then coming up with a solution. It is still not clear that Jones can overcome bad plays and make up for deficiencies on the OL, TE and WR which may end up costing the Giants wins this season.
Feliciano and Glowinski  
widmerseyebrow : 9/20/2022 11:35 am : link
Important to remember the expectations for these two are simply competent, stop gap type starters. They are going to get beat by plus defensive linemen. What's behind them ain't pretty.
Jones doesn't see open receivers  
Spiciest Memelord : 9/20/2022 11:35 am : link
and is a slow processor, unlike Glennon and Fromm who were lighting up bombs all day throwing less than 1.9 seconds. Ah bbi at its best.
Ryder Anderson  
widmerseyebrow : 9/20/2022 11:37 am : link
Is he still around on the PS? Does he get the call if Leo is out?
RE: Thanks for the report.  
Payasdaddy : 9/20/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15824740 Gruber said:
Quote:
I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.


Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball
any chance Feliciano  
mittenedman : 9/20/2022 11:40 am : link
isnt snapping well at C?

it looked like the Panthers were getting a great jump off the ball. part of why I dont like having an inexperienced C.

If you look, the Panthers get the jump on both run & pass plays which really ruined our ability to execute
RE: Jihad Ward  
Payasdaddy : 9/20/2022 11:41 am : link
In comment 15824900 g-baby said:
Quote:
What a pleasure he has been to watch. I'll admit i thought he was a bit of a throwaway backup signing and was nervous after the OLB injuries, but this guy has been playing a supremely physical and energetic brand of ball.

Players like this bring the juice and energy to a whole unit. Seems like a great glue guy on the field and in the locker room. Refreshing to see.


Great guy to have on a D. Swag and being able to back it up is infectious
Cost effective, solid signing.
RE: I agree with your point on Jones, I think he sees the  
Joe Beckwith : 9/20/2022 11:44 am : link
In comment 15824727 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
receivers and field but he is conservative and doesn't take risks until he has too. He can make the throws, but its likely burned into him at this point by previous coaches not to get interceptions and take chances. This is why you see him usually go the safe route until he has to make a play, and then all of a sudden he puts together a drive with a few big throws. We'll see if Daboll/Kafka can get his approach to be more aggressive


Our OL was more porous vs Carolina than Tennessee, Imho, so he likely still has DCarr syndrome, until he gets some confidence in the OL( if they can give him reason to be). Especially since he’s slower than desired on his reads.
great review as usual sy  
Eric on Li : 9/20/2022 11:48 am : link
nice to see what this group looks like with some competent coaching. hopefully it continues.
Excellent and incisive, as your stock in trade always is  
ColHowPepper : 9/20/2022 11:55 am : link
Mentioned it a few times before (others have echoed), but Bredesen was good at C in the Pats exhibition. Yes, against 2nd and 3rd stringers, and Patriots are no longer world beaters.

But Feliciano is just having too many negative plays and is usually overmatched. If he is injured, as someone above says, why are the offensive minded HC and OC starting him. He was always a stop-gap replacement for our 'Don't sleep on 'Pio' position.

It's clear Dabs and Kafka think right now that Ezeudu is floundering, but what the hey? Yes, they're trying to win, but all this talk of aiming at 4 - 0 start and how critical Dallas game is, my goodness, this season is about the roster we have now.

There are so many basic needs: OL at C (Jimmy G), WRs, ILBs, TE, Corners,etc., never mind how QB shakes out.

Let Ezeudu take his lumps and see if Josh/Ben/Glow can be better. It can't be too much worse than what we're seeing now. LOL, it might be to start.
Sy - question on OL  
SLIM_ : 9/20/2022 12:02 pm : link
Bredeson had played center in pre-season and looked good.

- Would you move Bredeson to center and hope the rookie improves at left guard right now?

- Would you move Bredeson to center if Lemieux can come back healthy enough to stat at LG?
Look for Lemieux around  
Dave on the UWS : 9/20/2022 12:05 pm : link
Nov 1, we should hear something before then. If he gets a little luck, we might get Gates back around then too.
Keep in mind, Feliciano was brought in on a 1 year deal as a stop gap. And Lemieux was going to be the starter at LG. Can't expect much more out of BACK UPS at LG and C then we are getting.
one thing to note about the early struggles on the interior  
Eric on Li : 9/20/2022 12:12 pm : link
Simmons and Brown are both very good.

Simmons currently sits #2 out of 122 interior defenders on PFF, 1 spot behind Chris Jones and 1 spot ahead of Aaron Donald. Brown is 14th. by way of comparison Leonard Williams is #9 and Dexter Lawrence #24.

Ten and Car have other guys behind them graded well also (demarcus walker #31, bravvion roy #37, kevin strong #46, teair tate #53, and Ioannidas is a good player even though he hasn't graded well this year).

Dallas only has 2 interior defenders graded top half - Osa Odigizua at #35 and Trysten Hill at #39. None of their interior players have a sack yet this year. So this will hopefully be a good opportunity for the interior to get trending in the right direction.

Dallas' pass D has held Brady to 212 yards and Burrow to 199 but their run D hasn't been as good allowing on 240 yards in 2 games at around 4.2 ypc (most of that coming from Fournette week 1).
I would not be surprised in Brederson  
Dave on the UWS : 9/20/2022 12:22 pm : link
moved to center once Lemieux comes back. That might be a stouter inside.
RE: RE: RE: Was in the upper deck  
MotownGIANTS : 9/20/2022 12:47 pm : link
In comment 15824779 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15824775 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15824760 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.



I think Jones sees it but he doesnt take chances



Yep me too. This is why he does it sometimes and not others. One thing we know is that if Daboll can't change him, he will move on. Daboll doesn't seem to have any issues moving on from big name players



Why can't DaBoll change him? The other coaches changed him and made him hestitant/conservative .... just change him back with being better at ball security (a positive change he has made fumbles and INT) teach him it is ok to take chances on calculated strikes ... trust the offense trust the system ... trust yourself
RE: I would not be surprised in Brederson  
MotownGIANTS : 9/20/2022 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15825023 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
moved to center once Lemieux comes back. That might be a stouter inside.


Why not have Jon F move back to guard and Breson @ C? I get it he wanted a shot a C ... right now he is not a better C than G. Then revaluate when Shane comes back, I do see giving him 1 or 2 more games at C but a change has to be considered it it does not get better consistently. Is OL different from WR?
RE: I would not be surprised in Brederson  
MotownGIANTS : 9/20/2022 12:52 pm : link
In comment 15825023 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
moved to center once Lemieux comes back. That might be a stouter inside.


Why not have Jon F move back to guard and Breson @ C? I get it he wanted a shot a C ... right now he is not a better C than G. Then revaluate when Shane comes back, I do see giving him 1 or 2 more games at C but a change has to be considered if it does not get better consistently. Is OL different from WR?
Jones does not have good pocket awareness  
Vanzetti : 9/20/2022 1:14 pm : link
And all the turnovers have made him hesitant. As a result, he is not decisive in either throwing downfield or throwing the ball away.

Whenever there is pressure, he seems trapped in this middle zone where he does not feel confident in getting the ball to a receiver in a tight window. Yet, he is still trying to make a play rather than simply throwing the ball way or even checking down. He winds up taking these baby steps and usually get sacked.
Another awesome review  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2022 1:29 pm : link
Read every word and it's hard to argue with any of it. Thanks!
RE: Was in the upper deck  
cjac : 9/20/2022 1:44 pm : link
In comment 15824760 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.


it was evident at the game that he has a hard time seeing the whole field. The worst one was the play right before the TD pass, Bellinger was wide open up the seam in the middle of the endzone and he never looked. I feel like thats something Eli would have determined just by looking at the defense pre snap.
RE: RE: Was in the upper deck  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/20/2022 1:53 pm : link
In comment 15824795 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15824760 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.



just because the guy is open doesnt mean he ran the right route. I have a feeling this is giving Jones a moment to pause and why he keeps going to Shepard who he trusts.

If it happened once, fine. Twice, maybe.

It's an ongoing pattern with DJ. There are multiple instances each game where DJ seemingly never spots a wide open reciver. Are they ALL running the wrong route every time? Or just maybe, the commonality - Jones - is the issue?

Sounds like it's just something new for the DJFC to glom onto in their neverending quest to provide more excuses for DJ's mediocrity.
All the different  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 2:01 pm : link
WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.

This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
RE: All the different  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2022 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15825231 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.

This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.


Regardless of what Shepard said
RE: RE: All the different  
Ron Johnson : 9/20/2022 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15825233 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 15825231 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.

This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.



Regardless of what Shepard said



What does a guy in the huddle know?
Is Sheppard going to throw the QB under the bus?  
ajr2456 : 9/20/2022 2:17 pm : link
Do you know Sheppard is talking about the plays where Jones missed guys that were talking about?

The evidence is out there, some still refuse to look it in the face
RE: Sy'  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2022 2:20 pm : link
In comment 15824802 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In describing the Panthers long term outlook at QB, I fear you've also described ours.

As of yet, I don't see it from Jones and I'd give him a similar moniker that you did for Mayfield, a back up somewhere next season. Yet with a 2-0 start and looking at some other teams in the league, I don't see us bad enough to be in a position to draft "our guy" next year.

Knowing its early, do you think next year's QB crop will be good enough where we can get someone if we picked in the 10-12 range?


CAR started off 2-0 last year as well.

I did not put this into the review - but there are a good amount of similarities between CAR and NYG
RE: Awesome review as always Sy, and a question...  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2022 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15824884 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Do you think Daboll (and maybe Kafka) is coaching Jones at specific points in these games to be more aggressive and let it rip? Basically trying to coach him slowly out of his shell that he seems to have pulled into these last couple of years? Because he does look like a different guy on a select few drives in these first two games.


I don't think so. I believe Daboll wants him aggressive from the start. He has been preaching it for quite some time and I saw it first hand at practice.
RE: Is Sheppard going to throw the QB under the bus?  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/20/2022 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15825261 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Do you know Sheppard is talking about the plays where Jones missed guys that were talking about?

The evidence is out there, some still refuse to look it in the face


He literally threw the WR room under the bus. No speculation there
RE: This game was a great example  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2022 2:23 pm : link
In comment 15824926 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
Of how to win, you first have to stop beating yourselves.

Carolina beat themselves with turnovers, drops, missed throws, and penalties. The game was there to be won and they didn’t.

The Giants managed to avoid beating themselves, and sprinkled in enough good plays to take it.

Sy, do you think our slow starts on O are partially Kafka using formations etc to feel out how the opponents will respond. (The scripted starts.) But since we’re not sustaining early drives we’re still doing that into the 2nd quarter?


Could be.

I think the slow starts have some to do with the O-line not being meshed as one yet and Jones just getting confused on what the defense is trying to do.
RE: Sy - question on OL  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2022 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15824997 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
Bredeson had played center in pre-season and looked good.

- Would you move Bredeson to center and hope the rookie improves at left guard right now?

- Would you move Bredeson to center if Lemieux can come back healthy enough to stat at LG?


Remember Bredeson did a lot of damage in preseason at OC against backups. But to answer your question, I would only move Bredeson there if it mean a healthy Lemieux was back. I’m not sure Ezeudu is quite ready.
RE: RE: Awesome review as always Sy, and a question...  
Ron Johnson : 9/20/2022 2:29 pm : link
In comment 15825267 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15824884 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Do you think Daboll (and maybe Kafka) is coaching Jones at specific points in these games to be more aggressive and let it rip? Basically trying to coach him slowly out of his shell that he seems to have pulled into these last couple of years? Because he does look like a different guy on a select few drives in these first two games.



I don't think so. I believe Daboll wants him aggressive from the start. He has been preaching it for quite some time and I saw it first hand at practice.


Daboll also tore him a new asshole after the pick in Tennessee. Mixed messages maybe.
RE: RE: Thanks for the report.  
Spiciest Memelord : 9/20/2022 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15824965 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
In comment 15824740 Gruber said:


Quote:


I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.



Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball


Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.
Sy great write up, two questions about Jones  
Producer : 9/20/2022 2:35 pm : link
1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.

2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Not sure if this has been brought up but  
robbieballs2003 : 9/20/2022 2:46 pm : link
Bredesen at C can make a lot of sense for us. I know we are focused on LG and rightfully so but C shouldn't be overlooked. I am really hoping Gates can make a full recovery by next year. Having him at C would be a huge upgrade.
RE: Sy great write up, two questions about Jones  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2022 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15825294 Producer said:
Quote:
1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.

2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.


Good questions

1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc

2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.
RE: Not sure if this has been brought up but  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2022 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15825303 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Bredesen at C can make a lot of sense for us. I know we are focused on LG and rightfully so but C shouldn't be overlooked. I am really hoping Gates can make a full recovery by next year. Having him at C would be a huge upgrade.


Someone asked me the 3 biggest roster holes on NYG looking at the future.

Center is on it.
RE: RE: Sy great write up, two questions about Jones  
Producer : 9/20/2022 4:05 pm : link
In comment 15825386 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15825294 Producer said:


Quote:


1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.

2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.



Good questions

1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc

2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.


Thank you for the excellent and thoughtful reply. Totally agree, when Jones gets lined up he can power a throw pretty well.
RE: RE: RE: Thanks for the report.  
Angel Eyes : 9/20/2022 4:14 pm : link
In comment 15825289 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 15824965 Payasdaddy said:


Quote:


In comment 15824740 Gruber said:


Quote:


I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.



Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball



Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.

On that front, what is Big Cat's best position?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Thanks for the report.  
Spiciest Memelord : 9/20/2022 4:18 pm : link
In comment 15825403 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15825289 Spiciest Memelord said:


Quote:


In comment 15824965 Payasdaddy said:


Quote:


In comment 15824740 Gruber said:


Quote:


I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.



Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball



Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.


On that front, what is Big Cat's best position?


He should not be lined outside of a T, not fooling anyone with an outside move. He should be up against a G or at 5.
Any chance we see Bredeson moved to OC at some point?  
Matt M. : 9/20/2022 4:41 pm : link
In pre season he looked good in his limited time there.
RE: RE: RE: Sy great write up, two questions about Jones  
Johnny5 : 9/20/2022 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15825395 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15825386 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 15825294 Producer said:


Quote:


1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.

2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.



Good questions

1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc

2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.



Thank you for the excellent and thoughtful reply. Totally agree, when Jones gets lined up he can power a throw pretty well.

Agreed, good stuff Sy!
RE: The “PTSD” excuse  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/20/2022 5:07 pm : link
In comment 15824909 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Is a cop out. So is the Judge coached him to be conservative one. If he’s supposed to be a franchise QB he’d adjust. How many backups do we see bounce from system to system each year and step in on a weeks notice and perform?

If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.

Not to mention that if Jones is so slow to adjust to new coaching, why didn't we see gunslinger Jones for the first few games of the Judge era? I mean, if DJ is just stuck in his previous offense, shouldn't he have also been stuck in his previous offense (at that time) in 2020?

Or do we only extend the impact of previous eras for excuses that benefit DJ?

Unless, of course, these fans are really saying that Joe Judge and Jason Garrett were much more capable of imprinting DJ's style of play than Brian Daboll and Mike Kafka are? Or are they saying that DJ is permanently ruined from Judge & Garrett?

It seems so much more complicated than just accepting the fact that DJ is mediocre.
RE: RE: RE: All the different  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/20/2022 5:48 pm : link
In comment 15825260 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15825233 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


In comment 15825231 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.

This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.



Regardless of what Shepard said




What does a guy in the huddle know?


What he knows and what he's willing to say publicly are two different things. And the same is true for coaches. It would take a total idiot to throw his QB under the bust. He's a veteran, a team captain, and a leader. He is not going to do that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: All the different  
Johnny5 : 9/20/2022 6:11 pm : link
In comment 15825505 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15825260 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15825233 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


In comment 15825231 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.

This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.



Regardless of what Shepard said




What does a guy in the huddle know?



What he knows and what he's willing to say publicly are two different things. And the same is true for coaches. It would take a total idiot to throw his QB under the bust. He's a veteran, a team captain, and a leader. He is not going to do that.

Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
Thank you Sy.  
section125 : 9/20/2022 6:27 pm : link
Great write up. Each game Jones plays that he can see open receivers on film is good for him. I think Daboll and Kafka will be in his ear to trust what he sees and let it fly. Like most, with my untrained I just cannot figure him out. I do think that either the WRs are not making correct pre-snaps reads as Shepard said, or he just does not trust or have a rapport with anyone other than Sills and Shepard.

I do not expect him to be retained. So I would just like to see him get aggressive and throws some bombs - if the line can give him just a little time.

Also, you have been touting Julian Love since he was drafted. The guy is where he is supposed to be virtually every play. I thought he was a VG DB at Notre Dame. Kudos to you. I hope they can keep him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: All the different  
section125 : 9/20/2022 6:34 pm : link
In comment 15825523 Johnny5 said:
Quote:

Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?


Daboll has said it several times, if you do not practice and learn the route tree you will be limited in you snaps. The players and coaches have packages. You play if you are in that package.
Toney missed a lot of time, hence his practice time is insufficient for extra snaps. I believe Golladay also missed time, and if he is not learning the route trees to the position coaches liking, he sits.

Daboll is insisting that you are fully prepared to run the plays that are called. Eliminate mistakes. He said physical errors are understood, mental ones are not.
RE: All the different  
Johnny5 : 9/20/2022 6:42 pm : link
In comment 15825540 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15825523 Johnny5 said:


Quote:



Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?



Daboll has said it several times, if you do not practice and learn the route tree you will be limited in you snaps. The players and coaches have packages. You play if you are in that package.
Toney missed a lot of time, hence his practice time is insufficient for extra snaps. I believe Golladay also missed time, and if he is not learning the route trees to the position coaches liking, he sits.

Daboll is insisting that you are fully prepared to run the plays that are called. Eliminate mistakes. He said physical errors are understood, mental ones are not.

I agree Section, and it's also exactly what Shep said. I was using it to make a point to TTH and others arguing that Shep is not being honest. I actually LOVE the fact that Daboll does that... accountability... but it's a problem. Sills and James are journeyman that would be low on the totem pole for other successful teams.

Honestly I wish we could have a moratorium on Daniel Jones at this point... lol. I'm so tired of wading through it on every decent thread.
ALSO  
Johnny5 : 9/20/2022 6:46 pm : link
There's a video on the NY Giants Facebook page with Daboll getting pretty animated on the sidelines with the receievers vs. Carolina...

"DO OUR JOBS! That's all it takes"
Xavier & Love are both keepers  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/20/2022 6:50 pm : link
.
Dallas front 7 concern me  
5BowlsSoon : 9/20/2022 6:55 pm : link
I have a bad feeling 20 points will be the most we can generate again this week. And that is being optimistic. Burrows only got 17 and he is much better than Danny and Chase is much better than anyone we have.
By the way  
5BowlsSoon : 9/20/2022 6:56 pm : link
I 100% agree….this may be one of Sy’s finest review. He gave us a lot using different perspectives which was nice. Thanks Sy….
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: All the different  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/20/2022 7:25 pm : link
In comment 15825523 Johnny5 said:
Quote:


Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?


I'm not sure I understand the comparison. There's no question that you simply don't criticise the QB for all to see and hear, especially one that it's understood is under a critical eye already. Taking the blame on oneself is what good teammates do. There are very few cases in recent history where teammates would call out Eli Manning for his many, obvious on-field turnovers, and there was no time I can remember Eli would name players who are playing poorly - and he could have. It's just not done except in situations that are borderline dysfunctional.

Shepard including himself in saying the WRs have to do better is fully normal.

When Jones, in week one, was getting screamed at by Daboll in front of the camera for his bonehead INT, Daboll said to the media after the game he wasn't yelling at jones, he was talking on his headset. He wasn't *wearing* a headset.

Q: Looks like you had a fiery conversation with Daniel (Jones) after interception. What did you say to him and how did you like how he bounced back?

A: I wasn't talking to Daniel (Jones). I was talking on the headset to some of the coaches, but I just said what'd you see. He thought he could potentially back shoulder it. And I said, 'That's not what I saw, but you got the ball in your hands, so you're going to get the ball back at some point. Our defense is going to get it to you. Let's drive down and get it again.'


No one is going to criticize or provide an 'honest assessment' the QB publicly. It is understood that those things are behind the scenes.

Shepard would know more than anyone here about
Shepard would know more than anyone here about  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/20/2022 7:25 pm : link
the offense, but that doesn't mean he's going to tell you or me.*
don't expect public, critical assessments of the QB  
Producer : 9/20/2022 7:34 pm : link
by players or coaches. They have zero incentive to be honest.
RE: Shepard would know more than anyone here about  
section125 : 9/20/2022 7:37 pm : link
In comment 15825606 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
the offense, but that doesn't mean he's going to tell you or me.*


It was a generic call out by Shep. He is a leader. He is onboard with Daboll requiring preparation to play. I am sorry but those 1st two series I still say the play calling was atrocious.
Jones not the only one getting yelled at.  
Johnny5 : 9/20/2022 7:54 pm : link
https://youtu.be/dV7taWWhch8?t=179

Jones deserved to be yelled at on that INT. But he is equal opportunity, and he is giving it to the WRs here in the clip. I love Daboll.

Thanks Sy!  
Jersey Heel : 9/20/2022 10:23 pm : link
Excellent as always.
RE: Excellent and incisive, as your stock in trade always is  
ElitoCanton : 9/20/2022 11:38 pm : link
Best thing for Ezeudu might be to not play right now and to just be working on his technique. He was never supposed to play this early in year 1. Lemieaux was supposed to be playing right now and would be if he hadn't gotten injured.


In comment 15824989 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Mentioned it a few times before (others have echoed), but Bredesen was good at C in the Pats exhibition. Yes, against 2nd and 3rd stringers, and Patriots are no longer world beaters.

But Feliciano is just having too many negative plays and is usually overmatched. If he is injured, as someone above says, why are the offensive minded HC and OC starting him. He was always a stop-gap replacement for our 'Don't sleep on 'Pio' position.

It's clear Dabs and Kafka think right now that Ezeudu is floundering, but what the hey? Yes, they're trying to win, but all this talk of aiming at 4 - 0 start and how critical Dallas game is, my goodness, this season is about the roster we have now.

There are so many basic needs: OL at C (Jimmy G), WRs, ILBs, TE, Corners,etc., never mind how QB shakes out.

Let Ezeudu take his lumps and see if Josh/Ben/Glow can be better. It can't be too much worse than what we're seeing now. LOL, it might be to start.
RE: The “PTSD” excuse  
giantstock : 9/21/2022 2:50 am : link
In comment 15824909 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Is a cop out. So is the Judge coached him to be conservative one. If he’s supposed to be a franchise QB he’d adjust. How many backups do we see bounce from system to system each year and step in on a weeks notice and perform?

If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.


Wrong. All wrong.

He doesn't need to be a Franchise QB. He needs to be more like a Jimmy G where he is "good enough."

As SY had said - he compares him to a young Tannehill. This is what DJ is - ie potentially that type. Tenn was stupid paying Tannehill that much he isn't a franchise QB.

But to set a bar that DJ must show he is a Franchise QB is wrong analysis.
If Daniel Jones  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 6:22 am : link
Only ends up as “good enough” the Giants are ways away from being a legit contender again because of the razor thin margin that allows you.
RE: RE: The “PTSD” excuse  
Klaatu : 9/21/2022 6:50 am : link
In comment 15825944 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15824909 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Is a cop out. So is the Judge coached him to be conservative one. If he’s supposed to be a franchise QB he’d adjust. How many backups do we see bounce from system to system each year and step in on a weeks notice and perform?

If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.



Wrong. All wrong.

He doesn't need to be a Franchise QB. He needs to be more like a Jimmy G where he is "good enough."

As SY had said - he compares him to a young Tannehill. This is what DJ is - ie potentially that type. Tenn was stupid paying Tannehill that much he isn't a franchise QB.

But to set a bar that DJ must show he is a Franchise QB is wrong analysis.


"Good enough" for what? To maybe win their division or get a wild card spot, but never go any further? Why settle for that?

I want the bar set as high as possible for Jones. If he can't get over it, then the Giants should move on and look for someone who can.
Great read Sy’  
beatrixkiddo : 9/21/2022 9:01 am : link
I didn’t see anyone mention it. But you mentioned in your details on Carolina that they should make a hard push to go after Lamar Jackson this off-season. So you believe Jackson will test FA? If so, don’t you think the Giants should be in that bidding contest as well? Or do you not see him as a fit in Daboll’s offense.
Nick Foles wasn't "good enough."  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 9:07 am : link
Now there's a statue of him outside of Lincoln Financial.
Except Nick Foles played at an elite level in the playoffs  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 9:17 am : link
He wasn’t a game manager come January that year.
Foles is an exception  
ChrisRick : 9/21/2022 9:21 am : link
rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.
Let’s not forget Wentz  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 9:27 am : link
Was playing at a phenomenal level to put them in position to get the first round bye and home field throughout.

The Eagles had far from “just ok” QB play that year
RE: RE: RE: The “PTSD” excuse  
section125 : 9/21/2022 9:39 am : link
In comment 15825958 Klaatu said:
Quote:

"Good enough" for what? To maybe win their division or get a wild card spot, but never go any further? Why settle for that?

I want the bar set as high as possible for Jones. If he can't get over it, then the Giants should move on and look for someone who can.


I hate to nitpick, but just what does "set the bar as high as possible" mean - relative to him or the best of the NFL? Just what are you looking for? There is no way Jones is ever at Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Burrow level. Jones is a mid-level, at best, QB.

He isn't going to be here next year, unless Schoen and Daboll do not like what they see in the NCAA and where the Giants pick in the draft. Tyrod was obviously signed because of Jones injury history and as that bridge QB. So it seems to me, they set up to move on from Jones already.

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to like Lamar Jackson in blue.
RE: Foles is an exception  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 9:42 am : link
In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.


There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.
RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 9:50 am : link
In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.


What are the other exceptions besides Trent Dilfer?
RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
ChrisRick : 9/21/2022 9:51 am : link
In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.


I agree to an extent, the surrounding team matters quite a bit. I think history probably shows that quarterback needs to be a strength of your team, and that is putting it probably a bit too simply. A quarterback may be top 5 during the season, but maybe falls to top 10 during the post-season.

Overall as this relates to Jones, he does not represent a strength at this moment in time in my view.
RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
cosmicj : 9/21/2022 9:53 am : link
In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.


So let’s bring Tom Brady into this debate…
We've had this debate before  
Producer : 9/21/2022 10:29 am : link
Numbers seem to show that QBs in the elite/excellent class win more than 80% of the championships. You want to be one of the 8 (or so) teams in that category, rather than one of the 24 teams fighting it out for what's left over.

Simple game theory.
Another great review.  
Gman11 : 9/21/2022 10:29 am : link
It's so good to have a trained eye reviewing the play.

Re: Jones. I think the lack of taking chances was burned into him the last two years by the previous regime that wanted to minimize turnovers. As Bill Parcells used to say if you don't throw a couple of interceptions you're not being aggressive enough.
RE: RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 10:41 am : link
In comment 15826082 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.



What are the other exceptions besides Trent Dilfer?


How about Brad Johnson. Also, I think Payton Manning with the Broncos was a shell of his former self. Definitely not top 10.

As I recall, almost no one considered Eli top ten prior to 07'. Now that I think about it many didn't give him that designation after 07.

Kaepernic and Garopalo came within an eyelash.

I'd also note that between Marino, Brees and Rodgers only two championships, in spite of the fact that they are 3 of the most prolific passers ever. Given their production you'd have to have expected them to win more.
I have re-read Sy'56  
section125 : 9/21/2022 10:44 am : link
game analysis a few times. Either he is unwilling to call out Jones on his reads, or he, like the rest of us in unsure what ails Jones.

"..... If it is a matter of him not seeing the action, that is a different discussion. But Jones CAN do it. He DID it in this game. Make tight throws in big moments that are considered “elite” throws. Will Daboll get this out of him? Keep an eye on it."
RE: RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 10:47 am : link
In comment 15826088 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.



So let’s bring Tom Brady into this debate…


Brady was elite and got it done, no doubt. But even a close look at his career we can see that arguably his best year (07) he didn't get it done. While his rookie year he was little more than a game manager and he did win.

Anomalies maybe but, it points to the fact I think, that big passing stats guarantee nothing .... and you can win with a good team well managed.
Eli stepped up to an elite level come playoff time.  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 10:55 am : link
There’s been zero indication so far that Jones can do that. You can’t wait til you make the playoffs to see if that can happen. The window is small.

Johnson and anyone from San Fran had elite defenses, which takes some time to build up. It also makes your margin for error razor thin.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
Producer : 9/21/2022 10:57 am : link
In comment 15826186 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15826088 cosmicj said:


Quote:


In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.



So let’s bring Tom Brady into this debate…



Brady was elite and got it done, no doubt. But even a close look at his career we can see that arguably his best year (07) he didn't get it done. While his rookie year he was little more than a game manager and he did win.

Anomalies maybe but, it points to the fact I think, that big passing stats guarantee nothing .... and you can win with a good team well managed.


This is a vague rebuttal. Look at the data. Look at the playoff teams every year. It's a list of the best QBs, with a couple of exceptions. Nobody claims there aren't exceptions, so your argument falls flat. Being in the best QBs group exponentially raises your odds for competing for a Super Bowl year in and year out. It is far harder to build a great team without one, and almost impossible to sustain it beyond a few seasons. A lot more has to go right. Those are the inconvenient facts.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 11:15 am : link
In comment 15826212 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15826186 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826088 cosmicj said:


Quote:


In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.



So let’s bring Tom Brady into this debate…



Brady was elite and got it done, no doubt. But even a close look at his career we can see that arguably his best year (07) he didn't get it done. While his rookie year he was little more than a game manager and he did win.

Anomalies maybe but, it points to the fact I think, that big passing stats guarantee nothing .... and you can win with a good team well managed.



This is a vague rebuttal. Look at the data. Look at the playoff teams every year. It's a list of the best QBs, with a couple of exceptions. Nobody claims there aren't exceptions, so your argument falls flat. Being in the best QBs group exponentially raises your odds for competing for a Super Bowl year in and year out. It is far harder to build a great team without one, and almost impossible to sustain it beyond a few seasons. A lot more has to go right. Those are the inconvenient facts.


Maybe. But there is a chicken or egg argument to be made. Is part of the reason that QBs are elite because they play for very good teams? Back to Foles, he wasn't good enough, until he got to play for the Eagles in their champ year. Then he played "elite" (according to ajr.) He soon went back to not good enough with the Bears. Or Russel Wilson, is he the elite QB from the SB days or is he the pedestrian one of last year.

Good QB play improves the fortunes of the team. Likewise good teams raise the level of output of their QBs.
RE: Foles is an exception  
Johnny5 : 9/21/2022 11:50 am : link
In comment 15826250 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15826212 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15826186 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826088 cosmicj said:


Quote:


In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.



So let’s bring Tom Brady into this debate…



Brady was elite and got it done, no doubt. But even a close look at his career we can see that arguably his best year (07) he didn't get it done. While his rookie year he was little more than a game manager and he did win.

Anomalies maybe but, it points to the fact I think, that big passing stats guarantee nothing .... and you can win with a good team well managed.



This is a vague rebuttal. Look at the data. Look at the playoff teams every year. It's a list of the best QBs, with a couple of exceptions. Nobody claims there aren't exceptions, so your argument falls flat. Being in the best QBs group exponentially raises your odds for competing for a Super Bowl year in and year out. It is far harder to build a great team without one, and almost impossible to sustain it beyond a few seasons. A lot more has to go right. Those are the inconvenient facts.



Maybe. But there is a chicken or egg argument to be made. Is part of the reason that QBs are elite because they play for very good teams? Back to Foles, he wasn't good enough, until he got to play for the Eagles in their champ year. Then he played "elite" (according to ajr.) He soon went back to not good enough with the Bears. Or Russel Wilson, is he the elite QB from the SB days or is he the pedestrian one of last year.

Good QB play improves the fortunes of the team. Likewise good teams raise the level of output of their QBs.

Ron Johnson agreed. These endless 6000+ view and 10 page long debates on almost every thread at this point... where people call each other out as Haters or Homers (or Jones lovers)... and it's really not about that. Typically the people that argue against the crowd that say definitively that "Jones sucks" put more emphasis around the team aspect rather than just the QB. That's really what it comes down to. Of course I want Jones to succeed as a Giant and I root for him to kick ass but I have no personal interest in him specifically. And I am realistic enough to say that what I post are my OPINIONS, not facts... lol. If we are winning I am happy. If Schoen and Daboll decide to move on from DJ, which is likely at this point, I am rooting for the next QB up. It's really that simple.
You can’t just pick one year from an aging Wilson’s  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 11:59 am : link
Career and use it to outweigh the 7 years before that.

And it’s not according to me, Foles was elite in those playoffs. The numbers speak for itself. Foles also at least had flashes. He threw 27 TDS in 13 games in 2013
RE: I have re-read Sy'56  
bw in dc : 9/21/2022 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15826181 section125 said:
Quote:
game analysis a few times. Either he is unwilling to call out Jones on his reads, or he, like the rest of us in unsure what ails Jones.

"..... If it is a matter of him not seeing the action, that is a different discussion. But Jones CAN do it. He DID it in this game. Make tight throws in big moments that are considered “elite” throws. Will Daboll get this out of him? Keep an eye on it."


I remember reading that paragraph from Sy and thinking, "What throws were elite?"

Because I watched the Chiefs-Chargers game last Thursday and actually saw real elite throws by Herbert and Mahomes. And have never been more convinced that Jones will NEVER be able to be a QB who is a force-multiplier because he doesn't have the throwing skills.
 
ryanmkeane : 9/21/2022 12:10 pm : link
Jones will never be Mahomes or Herbert? Wow shocking analysis there.
Joe Burrow  
Dr. D : 9/21/2022 12:15 pm : link
I know what he did last year, but to the "no excuses" people, does Burrow all of a sudden suck? His team is 0-2. He's got 3 TDs, 4 INTs and QBR of 44.7

I don't think he suddenly sucks.
Is Jones a clutch big game performer?  
cosmicj : 9/21/2022 12:16 pm : link
One other reason not to resign him is that there is literally no evidence either way. He’s never played in a genuine pressure packed big game.

Remember how Accorsi emphasized how Eli stepped up in pressure situations. Is Jones like that? Answer: null set.
RE: …  
bw in dc : 9/21/2022 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15826332 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Jones will never be Mahomes or Herbert? Wow shocking analysis there.


That's not the point. The point is Jones doesn't make enough elite throws.
The problem is not  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 12:21 pm : link
That Jones isn’t Mahomes or Herbert or Allen. The problem is he hasn’t shown the ability to play like them for even a quarter.
RE: RE: I have re-read Sy'56  
section125 : 9/21/2022 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15826324 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15826181 section125 said:


Quote:


"..... If it is a matter of him not seeing the action, that is a different discussion. But Jones CAN do it. He DID it in this game. Make tight throws in big moments that are considered “elite” throws. Will Daboll get this out of him? Keep an eye on it."


..... And have never been more convinced that Jones will NEVER be able to be a QB who is a force-multiplier because he doesn't have the throwing skills.


Kindly explain elite throwing skills because that can encompass many things: (or a combination)

Accurate and anticipation like Peyton
Cannon arm in Allen
Quick release like Rodgers/Marino
Strong and accurate - Brady
ad lib - Mahomes
RE: RE: Foles is an exception  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15826302 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15826250 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826212 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15826186 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826088 cosmicj said:


Quote:


In comment 15826070 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826046 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


rather than a rule. Just not likely to happen.



There are several exceptions. Maybe the rule is wrong. Maybe you don't need a top 10 QB to win. Maybe the overall quality of a team is just as important if not more than statistical output of the QB.



So let’s bring Tom Brady into this debate…



Brady was elite and got it done, no doubt. But even a close look at his career we can see that arguably his best year (07) he didn't get it done. While his rookie year he was little more than a game manager and he did win.

Anomalies maybe but, it points to the fact I think, that big passing stats guarantee nothing .... and you can win with a good team well managed.



This is a vague rebuttal. Look at the data. Look at the playoff teams every year. It's a list of the best QBs, with a couple of exceptions. Nobody claims there aren't exceptions, so your argument falls flat. Being in the best QBs group exponentially raises your odds for competing for a Super Bowl year in and year out. It is far harder to build a great team without one, and almost impossible to sustain it beyond a few seasons. A lot more has to go right. Those are the inconvenient facts.



Maybe. But there is a chicken or egg argument to be made. Is part of the reason that QBs are elite because they play for very good teams? Back to Foles, he wasn't good enough, until he got to play for the Eagles in their champ year. Then he played "elite" (according to ajr.) He soon went back to not good enough with the Bears. Or Russel Wilson, is he the elite QB from the SB days or is he the pedestrian one of last year.

Good QB play improves the fortunes of the team. Likewise good teams raise the level of output of their QBs.


Ron Johnson agreed. These endless 6000+ view and 10 page long debates on almost every thread at this point... where people call each other out as Haters or Homers (or Jones lovers)... and it's really not about that. Typically the people that argue against the crowd that say definitively that "Jones sucks" put more emphasis around the team aspect rather than just the QB. That's really what it comes down to. Of course I want Jones to succeed as a Giant and I root for him to kick ass but I have no personal interest in him specifically. And I am realistic enough to say that what I post are my OPINIONS, not facts... lol. If we are winning I am happy. If Schoen and Daboll decide to move on from DJ, which is likely at this point, I am rooting for the next QB up. It's really that simple.


Same here. I root for him because he's our guy. When he's gone I'll root for the next guy.

One other thing, a lot of people bring up the concept of being in QB hell. Which is, I think is when you sign a mediocre QB to a big money contract. But there's another level of hell, and that's drafting and missing over and over again, like the Jets have done. They hope they're out now with Wilson but that remains to be seen.

The Giants' plan may be to draft one next year but the hit rate is less than 50%. They need to be prepared to draft another 2 years later.
RE: The problem is not  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15826358 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
That Jones isn’t Mahomes or Herbert or Allen. The problem is he hasn’t shown the ability to play like them for even a quarter.


he was offensive player of the week last year against NO. Barkley, Golladay and Toney were healthy, he had time to throw .... and that's what happened.
So one example.  
ajr2456 : 9/21/2022 12:38 pm : link
Not helping the argument
RE: So one example.  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15826400 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Not helping the argument


He won the OPOW twice.

He has ability, we've seen it.
RE: RE: So one example.  
Producer : 9/21/2022 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15826428 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15826400 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Not helping the argument



He won the OPOW twice.

He has ability, we've seen it.


Trubisky won OPOW three times. Will you carry a torch for him? We've seen him be as good as Mahomes for a single week.
RE: RE: RE: So one example.  
Ron Johnson : 9/21/2022 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15826440 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15826428 Ron Johnson said:


Quote:


In comment 15826400 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Not helping the argument



He won the OPOW twice.

He has ability, we've seen it.



Trubisky won OPOW three times. Will you carry a torch for him? We've seen him be as good as Mahomes for a single week.


I'm not carrying a torch, I'm presenting a different viewpoint. Everything I've said is correct AFAIK.

If he's done it before he can do it again.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The “PTSD” excuse  
Klaatu : 9/21/2022 2:15 pm : link
In comment 15826066 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15825958 Klaatu said:


Quote:



"Good enough" for what? To maybe win their division or get a wild card spot, but never go any further? Why settle for that?

I want the bar set as high as possible for Jones. If he can't get over it, then the Giants should move on and look for someone who can.



I hate to nitpick, but just what does "set the bar as high as possible" mean - relative to him or the best of the NFL? Just what are you looking for? There is no way Jones is ever at Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Burrow level. Jones is a mid-level, at best, QB.

He isn't going to be here next year, unless Schoen and Daboll do not like what they see in the NCAA and where the Giants pick in the draft. Tyrod was obviously signed because of Jones injury history and as that bridge QB. So it seems to me, they set up to move on from Jones already.

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to like Lamar Jackson in blue.


How about "great," instead of simply "good enough?" Why settle for anything less?
RE: RE: RE: I have re-read Sy'56  
bw in dc : 9/21/2022 2:59 pm : link
In comment 15826369 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15826324 bw in dc said:


Kindly explain elite throwing skills because that can encompass many things: (or a combination)

Accurate and anticipation like Peyton
Cannon arm in Allen
Quick release like Rodgers/Marino
Strong and accurate - Brady
ad lib - Mahomes


In my view, I would categorize elite throwing as:

Quick release.
Accuracy from the pocket and on the move.
Sticking the ball in tight windows from the pocket.
Sticking the ball in tight windows on the move.
>>>>(Can also be called - throwing receivers open)
Making throws short, medium and long on the run (both directions).
Being able to apply velocity, touch, arc.

When needed:
Being able to make throws in inclement weather.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The “PTSD” excuse  
section125 : 9/21/2022 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15826505 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15826066 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15825958 Klaatu said:


Quote:



"Good enough" for what? To maybe win their division or get a wild card spot, but never go any further? Why settle for that?

I want the bar set as high as possible for Jones. If he can't get over it, then the Giants should move on and look for someone who can.



I hate to nitpick, but just what does "set the bar as high as possible" mean - relative to him or the best of the NFL? Just what are you looking for? There is no way Jones is ever at Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Burrow level. Jones is a mid-level, at best, QB.

He isn't going to be here next year, unless Schoen and Daboll do not like what they see in the NCAA and where the Giants pick in the draft. Tyrod was obviously signed because of Jones injury history and as that bridge QB. So it seems to me, they set up to move on from Jones already.

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to like Lamar Jackson in blue.



How about "great," instead of simply "good enough?" Why settle for anything less?


There is an in between from good enough to great. Rodgers and Brady are great. Peyton Manning, John Elway and maybe Drew Brees.
Mahomes, Wilson and Jackson are very good. Herbert and Burrow also look like very good. Eli is likely in this category leaking into great.

Great is a lucky pick. Very good is probably findable.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The “PTSD” excuse  
giantstock : 9/23/2022 11:35 am : link
In comment 15826505 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15826066 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15825958 Klaatu said:


Quote:



"Good enough" for what? To maybe win their division or get a wild card spot, but never go any further? Why settle for that?

I want the bar set as high as possible for Jones. If he can't get over it, then the Giants should move on and look for someone who can.



I hate to nitpick, but just what does "set the bar as high as possible" mean - relative to him or the best of the NFL? Just what are you looking for? There is no way Jones is ever at Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Burrow level. Jones is a mid-level, at best, QB.

He isn't going to be here next year, unless Schoen and Daboll do not like what they see in the NCAA and where the Giants pick in the draft. Tyrod was obviously signed because of Jones injury history and as that bridge QB. So it seems to me, they set up to move on from Jones already.

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to like Lamar Jackson in blue.



How about "great," instead of simply "good enough?" Why settle for anything less?


Suppose you can't find "Great?" Then what do you do?
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