Nov 1, we should hear something before then. If he gets a little luck, we might get Gates back around then too.
Keep in mind, Feliciano was brought in on a 1 year deal as a stop gap. And Lemieux was going to be the starter at LG. Can't expect much more out of BACK UPS at LG and C then we are getting.
one thing to note about the early struggles on the interior
Simmons currently sits #2 out of 122 interior defenders on PFF, 1 spot behind Chris Jones and 1 spot ahead of Aaron Donald. Brown is 14th. by way of comparison Leonard Williams is #9 and Dexter Lawrence #24.
Ten and Car have other guys behind them graded well also (demarcus walker #31, bravvion roy #37, kevin strong #46, teair tate #53, and Ioannidas is a good player even though he hasn't graded well this year).
Dallas only has 2 interior defenders graded top half - Osa Odigizua at #35 and Trysten Hill at #39. None of their interior players have a sack yet this year. So this will hopefully be a good opportunity for the interior to get trending in the right direction.
Dallas' pass D has held Brady to 212 yards and Burrow to 199 but their run D hasn't been as good allowing on 240 yards in 2 games at around 4.2 ypc (most of that coming from Fournette week 1).
Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.
I think Jones sees it but he doesnt take chances
Yep me too. This is why he does it sometimes and not others. One thing we know is that if Daboll can't change him, he will move on. Daboll doesn't seem to have any issues moving on from big name players
Why can't DaBoll change him? The other coaches changed him and made him hestitant/conservative .... just change him back with being better at ball security (a positive change he has made fumbles and INT) teach him it is ok to take chances on calculated strikes ... trust the offense trust the system ... trust yourself
moved to center once Lemieux comes back. That might be a stouter inside.
Why not have Jon F move back to guard and Breson @ C? I get it he wanted a shot a C ... right now he is not a better C than G. Then revaluate when Shane comes back, I do see giving him 1 or 2 more games at C but a change has to be considered it it does not get better consistently. Is OL different from WR?
moved to center once Lemieux comes back. That might be a stouter inside.
Why not have Jon F move back to guard and Breson @ C? I get it he wanted a shot a C ... right now he is not a better C than G. Then revaluate when Shane comes back, I do see giving him 1 or 2 more games at C but a change has to be considered if it does not get better consistently. Is OL different from WR?
And all the turnovers have made him hesitant. As a result, he is not decisive in either throwing downfield or throwing the ball away.
Whenever there is pressure, he seems trapped in this middle zone where he does not feel confident in getting the ball to a receiver in a tight window. Yet, he is still trying to make a play rather than simply throwing the ball way or even checking down. He winds up taking these baby steps and usually get sacked.
Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.
it was evident at the game that he has a hard time seeing the whole field. The worst one was the play right before the TD pass, Bellinger was wide open up the seam in the middle of the endzone and he never looked. I feel like thats something Eli would have determined just by looking at the defense pre snap.
Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.
just because the guy is open doesnt mean he ran the right route. I have a feeling this is giving Jones a moment to pause and why he keeps going to Shepard who he trusts.
If it happened once, fine. Twice, maybe.
It's an ongoing pattern with DJ. There are multiple instances each game where DJ seemingly never spots a wide open reciver. Are they ALL running the wrong route every time? Or just maybe, the commonality - Jones - is the issue?
Sounds like it's just something new for the DJFC to glom onto in their neverending quest to provide more excuses for DJ's mediocrity.
WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
In describing the Panthers long term outlook at QB, I fear you've also described ours.
As of yet, I don't see it from Jones and I'd give him a similar moniker that you did for Mayfield, a back up somewhere next season. Yet with a 2-0 start and looking at some other teams in the league, I don't see us bad enough to be in a position to draft "our guy" next year.
Knowing its early, do you think next year's QB crop will be good enough where we can get someone if we picked in the 10-12 range?
CAR started off 2-0 last year as well.
I did not put this into the review - but there are a good amount of similarities between CAR and NYG
RE: Awesome review as always Sy, and a question...
Do you think Daboll (and maybe Kafka) is coaching Jones at specific points in these games to be more aggressive and let it rip? Basically trying to coach him slowly out of his shell that he seems to have pulled into these last couple of years? Because he does look like a different guy on a select few drives in these first two games.
I don't think so. I believe Daboll wants him aggressive from the start. He has been preaching it for quite some time and I saw it first hand at practice.
RE: Is Sheppard going to throw the QB under the bus?
Of how to win, you first have to stop beating yourselves.
Carolina beat themselves with turnovers, drops, missed throws, and penalties. The game was there to be won and they didn’t.
The Giants managed to avoid beating themselves, and sprinkled in enough good plays to take it.
Sy, do you think our slow starts on O are partially Kafka using formations etc to feel out how the opponents will respond. (The scripted starts.) But since we’re not sustaining early drives we’re still doing that into the 2nd quarter?
Could be.
I think the slow starts have some to do with the O-line not being meshed as one yet and Jones just getting confused on what the defense is trying to do.
Bredeson had played center in pre-season and looked good.
- Would you move Bredeson to center and hope the rookie improves at left guard right now?
- Would you move Bredeson to center if Lemieux can come back healthy enough to stat at LG?
Remember Bredeson did a lot of damage in preseason at OC against backups. But to answer your question, I would only move Bredeson there if it mean a healthy Lemieux was back. I’m not sure Ezeudu is quite ready.
RE: RE: Awesome review as always Sy, and a question...
Do you think Daboll (and maybe Kafka) is coaching Jones at specific points in these games to be more aggressive and let it rip? Basically trying to coach him slowly out of his shell that he seems to have pulled into these last couple of years? Because he does look like a different guy on a select few drives in these first two games.
I don't think so. I believe Daboll wants him aggressive from the start. He has been preaching it for quite some time and I saw it first hand at practice.
Daboll also tore him a new asshole after the pick in Tennessee. Mixed messages maybe.
I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.
Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball
Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.
1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Bredesen at C can make a lot of sense for us. I know we are focused on LG and rightfully so but C shouldn't be overlooked. I am really hoping Gates can make a full recovery by next year. Having him at C would be a huge upgrade.
1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Good questions
1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc
2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.
Bredesen at C can make a lot of sense for us. I know we are focused on LG and rightfully so but C shouldn't be overlooked. I am really hoping Gates can make a full recovery by next year. Having him at C would be a huge upgrade.
Someone asked me the 3 biggest roster holes on NYG looking at the future.
Center is on it.
RE: RE: Sy great write up, two questions about Jones
1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Good questions
1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc
2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.
Thank you for the excellent and thoughtful reply. Totally agree, when Jones gets lined up he can power a throw pretty well.
I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.
Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball
Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.
I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.
Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball
Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.
On that front, what is Big Cat's best position?
He should not be lined outside of a T, not fooling anyone with an outside move. He should be up against a G or at 5.
Any chance we see Bredeson moved to OC at some point?
1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Good questions
1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc
2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.
Thank you for the excellent and thoughtful reply. Totally agree, when Jones gets lined up he can power a throw pretty well.
Is a cop out. So is the Judge coached him to be conservative one. If he’s supposed to be a franchise QB he’d adjust. How many backups do we see bounce from system to system each year and step in on a weeks notice and perform?
If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.
Not to mention that if Jones is so slow to adjust to new coaching, why didn't we see gunslinger Jones for the first few games of the Judge era? I mean, if DJ is just stuck in his previous offense, shouldn't he have also been stuck in his previous offense (at that time) in 2020?
Or do we only extend the impact of previous eras for excuses that benefit DJ?
Unless, of course, these fans are really saying that Joe Judge and Jason Garrett were much more capable of imprinting DJ's style of play than Brian Daboll and Mike Kafka are? Or are they saying that DJ is permanently ruined from Judge & Garrett?
It seems so much more complicated than just accepting the fact that DJ is mediocre.
WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
Regardless of what Shepard said
What does a guy in the huddle know?
What he knows and what he's willing to say publicly are two different things. And the same is true for coaches. It would take a total idiot to throw his QB under the bust. He's a veteran, a team captain, and a leader. He is not going to do that.
WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
Regardless of what Shepard said
What does a guy in the huddle know?
What he knows and what he's willing to say publicly are two different things. And the same is true for coaches. It would take a total idiot to throw his QB under the bust. He's a veteran, a team captain, and a leader. He is not going to do that.
Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
Great write up. Each game Jones plays that he can see open receivers on film is good for him. I think Daboll and Kafka will be in his ear to trust what he sees and let it fly. Like most, with my untrained I just cannot figure him out. I do think that either the WRs are not making correct pre-snaps reads as Shepard said, or he just does not trust or have a rapport with anyone other than Sills and Shepard.
I do not expect him to be retained. So I would just like to see him get aggressive and throws some bombs - if the line can give him just a little time.
Also, you have been touting Julian Love since he was drafted. The guy is where he is supposed to be virtually every play. I thought he was a VG DB at Notre Dame. Kudos to you. I hope they can keep him.
Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
Daboll has said it several times, if you do not practice and learn the route tree you will be limited in you snaps. The players and coaches have packages. You play if you are in that package.
Toney missed a lot of time, hence his practice time is insufficient for extra snaps. I believe Golladay also missed time, and if he is not learning the route trees to the position coaches liking, he sits.
Daboll is insisting that you are fully prepared to run the plays that are called. Eliminate mistakes. He said physical errors are understood, mental ones are not.
Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
Daboll has said it several times, if you do not practice and learn the route tree you will be limited in you snaps. The players and coaches have packages. You play if you are in that package.
Toney missed a lot of time, hence his practice time is insufficient for extra snaps. I believe Golladay also missed time, and if he is not learning the route trees to the position coaches liking, he sits.
Daboll is insisting that you are fully prepared to run the plays that are called. Eliminate mistakes. He said physical errors are understood, mental ones are not.
I agree Section, and it's also exactly what Shep said. I was using it to make a point to TTH and others arguing that Shep is not being honest. I actually LOVE the fact that Daboll does that... accountability... but it's a problem. Sills and James are journeyman that would be low on the totem pole for other successful teams.
Honestly I wish we could have a moratorium on Daniel Jones at this point... lol. I'm so tired of wading through it on every decent thread.
I have a bad feeling 20 points will be the most we can generate again this week. And that is being optimistic. Burrows only got 17 and he is much better than Danny and Chase is much better than anyone we have.
Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
I'm not sure I understand the comparison. There's no question that you simply don't criticise the QB for all to see and hear, especially one that it's understood is under a critical eye already. Taking the blame on oneself is what good teammates do. There are very few cases in recent history where teammates would call out Eli Manning for his many, obvious on-field turnovers, and there was no time I can remember Eli would name players who are playing poorly - and he could have. It's just not done except in situations that are borderline dysfunctional.
Shepard including himself in saying the WRs have to do better is fully normal.
When Jones, in week one, was getting screamed at by Daboll in front of the camera for his bonehead INT, Daboll said to the media after the game he wasn't yelling at jones, he was talking on his headset. He wasn't *wearing* a headset.
Q: Looks like you had a fiery conversation with Daniel (Jones) after interception. What did you say to him and how did you like how he bounced back?
A: I wasn't talking to Daniel (Jones). I was talking on the headset to some of the coaches, but I just said what'd you see. He thought he could potentially back shoulder it. And I said, 'That's not what I saw, but you got the ball in your hands, so you're going to get the ball back at some point. Our defense is going to get it to you. Let's drive down and get it again.'
No one is going to criticize or provide an 'honest assessment' the QB publicly. It is understood that those things are behind the scenes.
the offense, but that doesn't mean he's going to tell you or me.*
It was a generic call out by Shep. He is a leader. He is onboard with Daboll requiring preparation to play. I am sorry but those 1st two series I still say the play calling was atrocious.
Best thing for Ezeudu might be to not play right now and to just be working on his technique. He was never supposed to play this early in year 1. Lemieaux was supposed to be playing right now and would be if he hadn't gotten injured.
Mentioned it a few times before (others have echoed), but Bredesen was good at C in the Pats exhibition. Yes, against 2nd and 3rd stringers, and Patriots are no longer world beaters.
But Feliciano is just having too many negative plays and is usually overmatched. If he is injured, as someone above says, why are the offensive minded HC and OC starting him. He was always a stop-gap replacement for our 'Don't sleep on 'Pio' position.
It's clear Dabs and Kafka think right now that Ezeudu is floundering, but what the hey? Yes, they're trying to win, but all this talk of aiming at 4 - 0 start and how critical Dallas game is, my goodness, this season is about the roster we have now.
There are so many basic needs: OL at C (Jimmy G), WRs, ILBs, TE, Corners,etc., never mind how QB shakes out.
Let Ezeudu take his lumps and see if Josh/Ben/Glow can be better. It can't be too much worse than what we're seeing now. LOL, it might be to start.
Is a cop out. So is the Judge coached him to be conservative one. If he’s supposed to be a franchise QB he’d adjust. How many backups do we see bounce from system to system each year and step in on a weeks notice and perform?
If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.
Wrong. All wrong.
He doesn't need to be a Franchise QB. He needs to be more like a Jimmy G where he is "good enough."
As SY had said - he compares him to a young Tannehill. This is what DJ is - ie potentially that type. Tenn was stupid paying Tannehill that much he isn't a franchise QB.
But to set a bar that DJ must show he is a Franchise QB is wrong analysis.
- Would you move Bredeson to center and hope the rookie improves at left guard right now?
- Would you move Bredeson to center if Lemieux can come back healthy enough to stat at LG?
Keep in mind, Feliciano was brought in on a 1 year deal as a stop gap. And Lemieux was going to be the starter at LG. Can't expect much more out of BACK UPS at LG and C then we are getting.
Simmons currently sits #2 out of 122 interior defenders on PFF, 1 spot behind Chris Jones and 1 spot ahead of Aaron Donald. Brown is 14th. by way of comparison Leonard Williams is #9 and Dexter Lawrence #24.
Ten and Car have other guys behind them graded well also (demarcus walker #31, bravvion roy #37, kevin strong #46, teair tate #53, and Ioannidas is a good player even though he hasn't graded well this year).
Dallas only has 2 interior defenders graded top half - Osa Odigizua at #35 and Trysten Hill at #39. None of their interior players have a sack yet this year. So this will hopefully be a good opportunity for the interior to get trending in the right direction.
Dallas' pass D has held Brady to 212 yards and Burrow to 199 but their run D hasn't been as good allowing on 240 yards in 2 games at around 4.2 ypc (most of that coming from Fournette week 1).
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In comment 15824760 The_Boss said:
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Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.
I think Jones sees it but he doesnt take chances
Yep me too. This is why he does it sometimes and not others. One thing we know is that if Daboll can't change him, he will move on. Daboll doesn't seem to have any issues moving on from big name players
Why can't DaBoll change him? The other coaches changed him and made him hestitant/conservative .... just change him back with being better at ball security (a positive change he has made fumbles and INT) teach him it is ok to take chances on calculated strikes ... trust the offense trust the system ... trust yourself
Why not have Jon F move back to guard and Breson @ C? I get it he wanted a shot a C ... right now he is not a better C than G. Then revaluate when Shane comes back, I do see giving him 1 or 2 more games at C but a change has to be considered it it does not get better consistently. Is OL different from WR?
Why not have Jon F move back to guard and Breson @ C? I get it he wanted a shot a C ... right now he is not a better C than G. Then revaluate when Shane comes back, I do see giving him 1 or 2 more games at C but a change has to be considered if it does not get better consistently. Is OL different from WR?
Whenever there is pressure, he seems trapped in this middle zone where he does not feel confident in getting the ball to a receiver in a tight window. Yet, he is still trying to make a play rather than simply throwing the ball way or even checking down. He winds up taking these baby steps and usually get sacked.
it was evident at the game that he has a hard time seeing the whole field. The worst one was the play right before the TD pass, Bellinger was wide open up the seam in the middle of the endzone and he never looked. I feel like thats something Eli would have determined just by looking at the defense pre snap.
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Sy is right: there were guys open downfield all day. Everyone saw it in the section and when Jones went somewhere else, the audible groans around us were obvious. During the peak Eli years, when we saw it, usually he did too and let it rip. Completion or not, he could always recognize the deep shot.
just because the guy is open doesnt mean he ran the right route. I have a feeling this is giving Jones a moment to pause and why he keeps going to Shepard who he trusts.
If it happened once, fine. Twice, maybe.
It's an ongoing pattern with DJ. There are multiple instances each game where DJ seemingly never spots a wide open reciver. Are they ALL running the wrong route every time? Or just maybe, the commonality - Jones - is the issue?
Sounds like it's just something new for the DJFC to glom onto in their neverending quest to provide more excuses for DJ's mediocrity.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
Regardless of what Shepard said
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WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
Regardless of what Shepard said
What does a guy in the huddle know?
The evidence is out there, some still refuse to look it in the face
As of yet, I don't see it from Jones and I'd give him a similar moniker that you did for Mayfield, a back up somewhere next season. Yet with a 2-0 start and looking at some other teams in the league, I don't see us bad enough to be in a position to draft "our guy" next year.
Knowing its early, do you think next year's QB crop will be good enough where we can get someone if we picked in the 10-12 range?
CAR started off 2-0 last year as well.
I did not put this into the review - but there are a good amount of similarities between CAR and NYG
I don't think so. I believe Daboll wants him aggressive from the start. He has been preaching it for quite some time and I saw it first hand at practice.
The evidence is out there, some still refuse to look it in the face
He literally threw the WR room under the bus. No speculation there
Carolina beat themselves with turnovers, drops, missed throws, and penalties. The game was there to be won and they didn’t.
The Giants managed to avoid beating themselves, and sprinkled in enough good plays to take it.
Sy, do you think our slow starts on O are partially Kafka using formations etc to feel out how the opponents will respond. (The scripted starts.) But since we’re not sustaining early drives we’re still doing that into the 2nd quarter?
Could be.
I think the slow starts have some to do with the O-line not being meshed as one yet and Jones just getting confused on what the defense is trying to do.
- Would you move Bredeson to center and hope the rookie improves at left guard right now?
- Would you move Bredeson to center if Lemieux can come back healthy enough to stat at LG?
Remember Bredeson did a lot of damage in preseason at OC against backups. But to answer your question, I would only move Bredeson there if it mean a healthy Lemieux was back. I’m not sure Ezeudu is quite ready.
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Do you think Daboll (and maybe Kafka) is coaching Jones at specific points in these games to be more aggressive and let it rip? Basically trying to coach him slowly out of his shell that he seems to have pulled into these last couple of years? Because he does look like a different guy on a select few drives in these first two games.
I don't think so. I believe Daboll wants him aggressive from the start. He has been preaching it for quite some time and I saw it first hand at practice.
Daboll also tore him a new asshole after the pick in Tennessee. Mixed messages maybe.
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I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.
Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball
Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Good questions
1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc
2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.
Someone asked me the 3 biggest roster holes on NYG looking at the future.
Center is on it.
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1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Good questions
1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc
2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.
Thank you for the excellent and thoughtful reply. Totally agree, when Jones gets lined up he can power a throw pretty well.
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In comment 15824740 Gruber said:
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I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.
Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball
Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.
On that front, what is Big Cat's best position?
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In comment 15824965 Payasdaddy said:
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In comment 15824740 Gruber said:
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I find so much in them. I've always loved Dexter Lawrence, I remember some on here saying last season he's a JAG or worse, but I think he's solid.
Your paragraph on Carolina and their QB troubles is downright scary. I also recall that they used all seven picks in the 2020 draft on defense.
Matt Rhule likely won't be there next year.
Funny how much better dex looks playing between OC and OG
Little more fire too
Liking wink a lot. Much more fire and attitude with D
Talent important but that’s half the battle on that side of the ball
Wink needs to put a stop to Big Cat playing on the edge cuteness.
On that front, what is Big Cat's best position?
He should not be lined outside of a T, not fooling anyone with an outside move. He should be up against a G or at 5.
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In comment 15825294 Producer said:
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1. Do you feel his arm has any limitations? With Jones it feels his best throws are down the middle of the field, whereas with many of the elite throwers their best wow throws are to the difficult zones outside the hashes. You rarely see Jones wowing with those kinds of throws.
2. I think one of Jones' weaknesses is consistency. Cosell talks about this a lot. The great and very good ones have a repetitiveness to their game, mechanically and with execution. Jones too often looks discombobulated and his throws lack consistency, making him prone to big mistakes. Consistency is an athletic trait, the ability to repeat what works.
Good questions
1: Jones natural arm talent is nothing to brag about. He truly needs to be lined up and in sync to make the power throw. With that said - the arm itself is more than good enough. If you had to grade the arm talent (power/velocity/strength) of all 32 starters in league, he is right in the middle. But then again so is Tua, Burrow, Brady, Cousins...etc
2: I'm with Cosell. To this point - we have not seen enough consistency from Jones week to week and within games. It is not the end all - Manning was that way for a few years. But you want to see just a bit more. Frankly, this is what MIN has in Cousins, TEN has in Tannehill, PHI/IND had in Wentz. It is a very common "issue": among several solid players. Could be better, could be much worse. Time will tell as he gets into this system more and more. His supporting cast has been awful over his career. This cannot be overlooked.
Thank you for the excellent and thoughtful reply. Totally agree, when Jones gets lined up he can power a throw pretty well.
Agreed, good stuff Sy!
If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.
Not to mention that if Jones is so slow to adjust to new coaching, why didn't we see gunslinger Jones for the first few games of the Judge era? I mean, if DJ is just stuck in his previous offense, shouldn't he have also been stuck in his previous offense (at that time) in 2020?
Or do we only extend the impact of previous eras for excuses that benefit DJ?
Unless, of course, these fans are really saying that Joe Judge and Jason Garrett were much more capable of imprinting DJ's style of play than Brian Daboll and Mike Kafka are? Or are they saying that DJ is permanently ruined from Judge & Garrett?
It seems so much more complicated than just accepting the fact that DJ is mediocre.
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In comment 15825231 ajr2456 said:
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WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
Regardless of what Shepard said
What does a guy in the huddle know?
What he knows and what he's willing to say publicly are two different things. And the same is true for coaches. It would take a total idiot to throw his QB under the bust. He's a veteran, a team captain, and a leader. He is not going to do that.
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In comment 15825233 Thunderstruck27 said:
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In comment 15825231 ajr2456 said:
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WRs that have been here in Jones’ career and they’re all running the wrong routes? Unlikely.
This scheme involves option routes, so the WR and Jones need to be on the same page. So if a wide receiver is that wide open as has been documented in some clips on Twitter, it’s probably more likely that the WR made the correct read and Jones did not.
Regardless of what Shepard said
What does a guy in the huddle know?
What he knows and what he's willing to say publicly are two different things. And the same is true for coaches. It would take a total idiot to throw his QB under the bust. He's a veteran, a team captain, and a leader. He is not going to do that.
Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
I do not expect him to be retained. So I would just like to see him get aggressive and throws some bombs - if the line can give him just a little time.
Also, you have been touting Julian Love since he was drafted. The guy is where he is supposed to be virtually every play. I thought he was a VG DB at Notre Dame. Kudos to you. I hope they can keep him.
Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
Daboll has said it several times, if you do not practice and learn the route tree you will be limited in you snaps. The players and coaches have packages. You play if you are in that package.
Toney missed a lot of time, hence his practice time is insufficient for extra snaps. I believe Golladay also missed time, and if he is not learning the route trees to the position coaches liking, he sits.
Daboll is insisting that you are fully prepared to run the plays that are called. Eliminate mistakes. He said physical errors are understood, mental ones are not.
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Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
Daboll has said it several times, if you do not practice and learn the route tree you will be limited in you snaps. The players and coaches have packages. You play if you are in that package.
Toney missed a lot of time, hence his practice time is insufficient for extra snaps. I believe Golladay also missed time, and if he is not learning the route trees to the position coaches liking, he sits.
Daboll is insisting that you are fully prepared to run the plays that are called. Eliminate mistakes. He said physical errors are understood, mental ones are not.
I agree Section, and it's also exactly what Shep said. I was using it to make a point to TTH and others arguing that Shep is not being honest. I actually LOVE the fact that Daboll does that... accountability... but it's a problem. Sills and James are journeyman that would be low on the totem pole for other successful teams.
Honestly I wish we could have a moratorium on Daniel Jones at this point... lol. I'm so tired of wading through it on every decent thread.
"DO OUR JOBS! That's all it takes"
Then why are Sills and James getting all of the reps over Golladay and Toney?
I'm not sure I understand the comparison. There's no question that you simply don't criticise the QB for all to see and hear, especially one that it's understood is under a critical eye already. Taking the blame on oneself is what good teammates do. There are very few cases in recent history where teammates would call out Eli Manning for his many, obvious on-field turnovers, and there was no time I can remember Eli would name players who are playing poorly - and he could have. It's just not done except in situations that are borderline dysfunctional.
Shepard including himself in saying the WRs have to do better is fully normal.
When Jones, in week one, was getting screamed at by Daboll in front of the camera for his bonehead INT, Daboll said to the media after the game he wasn't yelling at jones, he was talking on his headset. He wasn't *wearing* a headset.
Q: Looks like you had a fiery conversation with Daniel (Jones) after interception. What did you say to him and how did you like how he bounced back?
A: I wasn't talking to Daniel (Jones). I was talking on the headset to some of the coaches, but I just said what'd you see. He thought he could potentially back shoulder it. And I said, 'That's not what I saw, but you got the ball in your hands, so you're going to get the ball back at some point. Our defense is going to get it to you. Let's drive down and get it again.'
No one is going to criticize or provide an 'honest assessment' the QB publicly. It is understood that those things are behind the scenes.
Shepard would know more than anyone here about
It was a generic call out by Shep. He is a leader. He is onboard with Daboll requiring preparation to play. I am sorry but those 1st two series I still say the play calling was atrocious.
Jones deserved to be yelled at on that INT. But he is equal opportunity, and he is giving it to the WRs here in the clip. I love Daboll.
In comment 15824989 ColHowPepper said:
But Feliciano is just having too many negative plays and is usually overmatched. If he is injured, as someone above says, why are the offensive minded HC and OC starting him. He was always a stop-gap replacement for our 'Don't sleep on 'Pio' position.
It's clear Dabs and Kafka think right now that Ezeudu is floundering, but what the hey? Yes, they're trying to win, but all this talk of aiming at 4 - 0 start and how critical Dallas game is, my goodness, this season is about the roster we have now.
There are so many basic needs: OL at C (Jimmy G), WRs, ILBs, TE, Corners,etc., never mind how QB shakes out.
Let Ezeudu take his lumps and see if Josh/Ben/Glow can be better. It can't be too much worse than what we're seeing now. LOL, it might be to start.
If Jones can’t adjust threw a full offseason and this problem consists all year, he doesn’t have the make up to be a starting QB in this league. You have to adapt to survive.
Wrong. All wrong.
He doesn't need to be a Franchise QB. He needs to be more like a Jimmy G where he is "good enough."
As SY had said - he compares him to a young Tannehill. This is what DJ is - ie potentially that type. Tenn was stupid paying Tannehill that much he isn't a franchise QB.
But to set a bar that DJ must show he is a Franchise QB is wrong analysis.