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There was more intrigue with Toney’s limited role. With Golladay, it seems obvious the coaching staff just doesn’t believe he’s good enough to play. There was a scene during practice last Wednesday that appeared minor at the time, but, in hindsight, seems telling. At the start of every practice, quarterbacks throw passes to receivers running routes on air. Golladay ran a go-route, and quarterback Daniel Jones launched a pass about 40 yards downfield. Golladay didn’t come close to catching the pass, which landed a few yards beyond his grasp. It was impossible to tell initially if Jones had overthrown the receiver, but the reaction from Giants coaches signaled frustration with Golladay’s inability to catch up to an accurate pass. Golladay is now three seasons removed from his 1,190-yard, 11-touchdown breakout in Detroit. Since then, he’s had a hip injury that cost him most of the 2020 season and other lower-body injuries that slowed him last season. The 28-year-old just doesn’t appear to have the burst to be an impactful wide receiver. Maybe this is an overreaction and Golladay will be back in the lineup next week. But if not, it will be tricky for Daboll to manage keeping a player with a $21.2 million cap hit on the bench all season. The new regime hasn’t been shy about dumping veterans who don’t fit, but cutting Golladay would actually eat an additional $4.3 million in cap space this season. |
Can’t cut him
What a terrible position for Schoen & Daboll
🤦♂️
Golladay was never blazing fast but had solid 4.5 speed for his size. But he looks sluggish as hell out there, probably a 4.6 kind of guy at the moment. Some other deep threats can make that work due to great strength/size (Plax is a good example), but Golladay isn't an overpowering guy like that.
This new scheme seems to heavily emphasize quickness with our offensive weapons, mis-direction and quick hitters being key aspects. Golladay's not really that kind of player. He can still be useful if he regains some explosiveness but we'll need to see about that.
Same thing happened to Odell, but he went from near-GOAT explosiveness to a possession receiver. KG did not have speed to spare.
This was a house money year for this team, we all wished he recovered or cared to be out there but so be it, Golladay will be out of football in less than a year.
Probably a dumb question, but since he's not slated to be a UFA until 2025, is there any non-cap prohibitive way to change/restructure and/or void some final years on his deal to send him away as a UFA in 2023 instead of just have to cut him...so we can at least get some sort of comp pick back when he walks?
Golladay was never blazing fast but had solid 4.5 speed for his size. But he looks sluggish as hell out there, probably a 4.6 kind of guy at the moment. Some other deep threats can make that work due to great strength/size (Plax is a good example), but Golladay isn't an overpowering guy like that.
This new scheme seems to heavily emphasize quickness with our offensive weapons, mis-direction and quick hitters being key aspects. Golladay's not really that kind of player. He can still be useful if he regains some explosiveness but we'll need to see about that.
I have made this point about him losing a step and for someone whose game was never based on speed it almost makes you a non factor at this level. I think this is more the case then any attitude issues.
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without either great speed or great strength.
Golladay was never blazing fast but had solid 4.5 speed for his size. But he looks sluggish as hell out there, probably a 4.6 kind of guy at the moment. Some other deep threats can make that work due to great strength/size (Plax is a good example), but Golladay isn't an overpowering guy like that.
This new scheme seems to heavily emphasize quickness with our offensive weapons, mis-direction and quick hitters being key aspects. Golladay's not really that kind of player. He can still be useful if he regains some explosiveness but we'll need to see about that.
I have made this point about him losing a step and for someone whose game was never based on speed it almost makes you a non factor at this level. I think this is more the case then any attitude issues.
+2. He likely has lost most of his ability to separate. He's been passed by Sills. That says it all. Players get old in a hurry in the NFL.
This was a house money year for this team, we all wished he recovered or cared to be out there but so be it, Golladay will be out of football in less than a year.
+1 He'll definitely beg one in 4 months' time from New York. The question after that is does anyone else wanna risk signing him at all, as you point out. I think someone will sign him to a one year league minimum incentive-laden type of deal if he can pass a physical, but that's the limit of career outlook at this point. He's in check cashing mode now cuz he knows what times it is on his career.
Golladay was never blazing fast but had solid 4.5 speed for his size. But he looks sluggish as hell out there, probably a 4.6 kind of guy at the moment. Some other deep threats can make that work due to great strength/size (Plax is a good example), but Golladay isn't an overpowering guy like that.
4.6 is probably being generous, no exaggeration. All receivers lose the speed at some point, but his lack of suddenness and, to a larger degree, physicality is going to cut his career short.
One can dream 🙄
Only Golladay can do anything about it, and it's only if he improves. The Giants' hands are tied for a year.
Same thing happened to Odell, but he went from near-GOAT explosiveness to a possession receiver. KG did not have speed to spare.
Reminds me a bit of Nicks' career, sadly.
Got to practice, lay low, give minimal effort and collect your pay check.
Our biggest weakness right now on offense is we do not have a true #1 WR. We have pieces but not a center point.
Now, if we can get healthy and get Toney, SS and Robinson available, use Sils as the bigger WO (in place of Golladay) then we may be able to still achieve things this year.
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Can't do it now. They'll just make him inactive on gameday, wait for an injury to happen to IR him (which will probably happen during the last 1/3 or 1/4 of the season), or play him only a few snaps per game if necessary. Nothing much else to do, unless he becomes subordinate and goes rogue somehow---which isn't in the cards.
Probably a dumb question, but since he's not slated to be a UFA until 2025, is there any non-cap prohibitive way to change/restructure and/or void some final years on his deal to send him away as a UFA in 2023 instead of just have to cut him...so we can at least get some sort of comp pick back when he walks?
Smart point about the compensatory picks. That's something that this regime seems to be astute with thus far. Eric in LI had a good post about this a day ro two ago.
As far as restructuring his deal is concerned, no. The quickest out is to cut his his ass, to paraphrase Coach Red.
The ideal manner to cut him would be after the 2023 season. Check out who's got the highest cap number on the team...lol.
If the Giants were to cut Golladay after this season, they'd recoup $6.7M in cap savings as a pre-June 1st cut. As a post-June 1st cut, they'd recoup $13.5 M in cap savings. I'm of the opinion they'll opt for the former instead of the latter since this regime has been looking at the long-term so far, rather than the short term, which the Judge/O'Brien/Gettleman/Mara smorgasbord collective was doing.
They want to get rid of KG ASAP, but can't due to the cap shackles that are on their hands on account of his contract. He just won't play, which in the NFL is a death knell for players, especially those who are in Golladay's position. He's not long for this league after this season.
Duggan is a pretty respected reporter and reports of lack of separation have been in numerous reports all through training camp.
Golladay for one big reason, we spent a ton on guy at a position that could have been filled in the draft (rookie wideouts make impacts every year) and we big against ourselves . Add to that our biggest need was OL, a unit that has to perform at least average to slightly below average for skilled positions like WR to have any chance of making an impact and you basically killed two areas at the same time.
I really wish people would stop phrasing the situation as though there are different degrees of savings depending on whether it is a pre or post June cut. There is NO difference in savings. There is a difference as to when dead money is applied. Too many people see the 'increased' savings next year by designating a post June cut, but forget that the following year the cap is reduced by that same amount.
Useful tool for accounting purposes, IF there's a desperate need for dollars now at the expense of next year's budget, but zero difference in actual savings. You hinted at this, but, IMO, the point needs to be hammered home, because so many people don't pick up on it.
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Can't do it now. They'll just make him inactive on gameday, wait for an injury to happen to IR him (which will probably happen during the last 1/3 or 1/4 of the season), or play him only a few snaps per game if necessary. Nothing much else to do, unless he becomes subordinate and goes rogue somehow---which isn't in the cards.
Probably a dumb question, but since he's not slated to be a UFA until 2025, is there any non-cap prohibitive way to change/restructure and/or void some final years on his deal to send him away as a UFA in 2023 instead of just have to cut him...so we can at least get some sort of comp pick back when he walks?
My understanding is that in order to get a decent comp pick, someone has has to sign him to a substantial contract. With DG retired, who is stupid enough to do that?
LOL. Thanks, I needed that.
I really wish people would stop phrasing the situation as though there are different degrees of savings depending on whether it is a pre or post June cut. There is NO difference in savings. There is a difference as to when dead money is applied. Too many people see the 'increased' savings next year by designating a post June cut, but forget that the following year the cap is reduced by that same amount.
Useful tool for accounting purposes, IF there's a desperate need for dollars now at the expense of next year's budget, but zero difference in actual savings. You hinted at this, but, IMO, the point needs to be hammered home, because so many people don't pick up on it.
Correct. This regime will most likely "take their medicine", so to speak, and get it over with ASAP rather than the alternative. There are lots of things people get wrong about the cap, but if they were to look into it more it would be easier. I got tired of running my site due to personal reasons, but I always tried to explain things in layman's terms because it can be a little confusing the first around for a lot of folks who aren't familiar with it. Jason Fitzgerald and his team do a great job over OverTheCap.com with things like this. Best out there.
One play can be indicative of an overall pattern. KG is slower than he used to be and can’t run at NFL speed as was showcased in this drill. KG has certainly demonstrated that in games and many practices.
As opposed to being benched for behavior or other reasons.
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My understanding is that in order to get a decent comp pick, someone has has to sign him to a substantial contract. With DG retired, who is stupid enough to do that?
Seriously. Golladay will be out of football once the Giants cut him.
I'm surprised we haven't had more vitriol about DG. And I can't help but wonder if DG signed him after watching him get 6 catches for 123 yards and 2 TDs against us in 2019.
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In comment 15825105 FranknWeezer said:
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My understanding is that in order to get a decent comp pick, someone has has to sign him to a substantial contract. With DG retired, who is stupid enough to do that?
Seriously. Golladay will be out of football once the Giants cut him.
I'm surprised we haven't had more vitriol about DG. And I can't help but wonder if DG signed him after watching him get 6 catches for 123 yards and 2 TDs against us in 2019.
that was a all-time bad db group as well. a stray cat could put up 100 yds on that group.
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In comment 15825214 Bill in UT said:
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In comment 15825105 FranknWeezer said:
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My understanding is that in order to get a decent comp pick, someone has has to sign him to a substantial contract. With DG retired, who is stupid enough to do that?
Seriously. Golladay will be out of football once the Giants cut him.
I'm surprised we haven't had more vitriol about DG. And I can't help but wonder if DG signed him after watching him get 6 catches for 123 yards and 2 TDs against us in 2019.
that was a all-time bad db group as well. a stray cat could put up 100 yds on that group.
No argument here
Careful when taking the lord's name in vain, please.
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In comment 15825090 Optimus-NY said:
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Can't do it now. They'll just make him inactive on gameday, wait for an injury to happen to IR him (which will probably happen during the last 1/3 or 1/4 of the season), or play him only a few snaps per game if necessary. Nothing much else to do, unless he becomes subordinate and goes rogue somehow---which isn't in the cards.
Probably a dumb question, but since he's not slated to be a UFA until 2025, is there any non-cap prohibitive way to change/restructure and/or void some final years on his deal to send him away as a UFA in 2023 instead of just have to cut him...so we can at least get some sort of comp pick back when he walks?
Smart point about the compensatory picks. That's something that this regime seems to be astute with thus far. Eric in LI had a good post about this a day ro two ago.
As far as restructuring his deal is concerned, no. The quickest out is to cut his his ass, to paraphrase Coach Red.
The ideal manner to cut him would be after the 2023 season. Check out who's got the highest cap number on the team...lol.
If the Giants were to cut Golladay after this season, they'd recoup $6.7M in cap savings as a pre-June 1st cut. As a post-June 1st cut, they'd recoup $13.5 M in cap savings. I'm of the opinion they'll opt for the former instead of the latter since this regime has been looking at the long-term so far, rather than the short term, which the Judge/O'Brien/Gettleman/Mara smorgasbord collective was doing.
They want to get rid of KG ASAP, but can't due to the cap shackles that are on their hands on account of his contract. He just won't play, which in the NFL is a death knell for players, especially those who are in Golladay's position. He's not long for this league after this season.
Optimus- Thanks for all the effort you put into that explanation!
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I get the sense that the guy just cant really run anymore. Ever since I saw that clip of him in practice cutting in that drill, he just looks wrong.
saw the same thing. Toney had run the same drill right before him and the difference was so significant I didn't know if he was doing it on purpose. But his speed was about half of what Toney's was. And that's not much of an exaggeration.
I really dont think he was doing it on purpose
Big reason I can't watch baseball. Kenny G and Toney makes me hate watching them.
He's got a good deal in that sense, but keep this in mind: he'll be cut after this season. What team will wanna sign him after how he's produced here in 2021 and 2022? The most he'll get is a 1 year incentive-laden deal if he keeps up his "production". I wouldn't wanna be his agent!
2021 - 4.4m
2022 - 21.1m
2023 - 14.7m (dead money)
the 4.5m of guaranteed salary in 2023 is part of that dead money but some of it could be credited back via offset (though it's likely to be the vets min). some of it may not be fully guaranteed.
others have said it but to me it simply looks like he is a diminished player from all the injuries. in detroit he was a much better player than we've seen - and had there not been injury risks he'd have probably signed a much bigger deal than the one he got and not lingered on the market like he did. whether it was the football ops group making an overaggressive decision or the medical team making a mistake, the risks of this signing played out worst case from day 1.
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how did he pass a physical? Paging Ronnie Barnes...
Careful when taking the lord's name in vain, please.
lol
So far after 2 games the QB play and the WR play has been pedestrian at best but we know these players are learning a new offense that requires reads on the fly and the only way to progress this offense is experience during games. We have seen that right skill set QB can be prolific in this offense we'll see if Jones can play 15 more games and progress enough for the FO and coaches to want to bring him back.
2 games into this new FO and coaching staff I think there is a lot to be excited about. But I think we can all see where the roster is weakest. I think IOL (Center and Guard) has to be much better to be a contending team. Same thing with ILB. I think the Inside LBs have to be faster and stronger. I think the center of the field has to be a lot better on both sides of the ball. Right now IMO there isn't a single above average player out of those 5 starters.
But it's just year one.