Today is the first Day Aaron Judge leads in all categories for the Triple Crown!! He took the BA average lead last night with his historic nonjuiced 60th HR and tied the Babe.
I took alot of heat in June for predicting he had a chance to win the TC. This is an incredilbe acheivement to witness in all of sports.
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In comment 15826194 Heisenberg said:
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then put together a walk year like this? I can't remember anything like what Judge has done this year.
He's got Cash and Hal over a fucking barrel and he's earned it.
Honestly I think he turned it down not only because he felt it was too low but I really think he wants out of NY. I know that's hard to hear but I think he wants to go back to the west coast and get equal money out there.
I believe Steve Garvey turned down a large contract from his era to go to the Padres from Dodgers. I have to look that up. Roger Clemens got a large Contract from toronto to leave the Red Sox
Also the whole Lebron James Tv announcement contract deal happened in the NBA. But the basketball players are always turning down contract from there default team to go somewhere else.
They are sham records that should be stricken, IMO.
Fuck those guys.
I agree with your sentiment, those numbers are bastardize and an abomination to the sport.
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In comment 15826112 KDavies said:
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In comment 15826108 MartyNJ1969 said:
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In comment 15826107 KDavies said:
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are you going to also ask that the Yankees give up their 3-4 championships they won during the steroid era?
Yes!! I would, It was a terrible era for baseball
Hate to break it to you, Marty, but players are still using PEDs. Tatis, one of the biggest stars in the game, just got busted.
Correct, PED do exist. However after many painful years, MLB has controls and penalties in place now to mitigate the risk. Tatis will not be playing for a long time.
Oh stop with the "many painful years" nonsense. First of all, the two generations before the steroid era were full of amphetamines (also a PED), and I'm sure those are still in the game as well.
But beyond that, the pearl-clutching over steroids is ridiculous. If that's what you consider "many painful years" you must be very fortunate in life.
You have to admit, over the last 10 years the new PED controls in MLB are working. The stat numbers have normalized. The normalization that is occuring now only legitimizes what Judge is doing now.
And yes, I am fortunate, gracious and humble in life to have the opportunity to be standing upright and watch baseball right now. Every day is a gift.
Apples to Oranges. This literally makes no sense. The reason Bonds has an asterisk (to some) is because the players he’s being compared to in this case, Maris, weren’t using PEDs. Your argument only makes sense if you believe the Yankees back then we’re the only team with PED users while every other team was clean as a whistle. And we all know that’s not the case…
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then put together a walk year like this? I can't remember anything like what Judge has done this year.
He's got Cash and Hal over a fucking barrel and he's earned it.
Honestly I think he turned it down not only because he felt it was too low but I really think he wants out of NY. I know that's hard to hear but I think he wants to go back to the west coast and get equal money out there.
Oh, I think that's right. But now I think that the budget Boss will have little choice but to at least *try* to outbid SF or whatever other CA team wants to throw money at him. The NY media will find out what the Yanks offer is and if it's the same or less than, say SF Giants, the fan base will absolutely destroy Hal. They made him an offer that was big, but going to be less than his market value - easy for him to say no to. And then he went and did THIS. Wow.
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are you going to also ask that the Yankees give up their 3-4 championships they won during the steroid era?
Apples to Oranges. This literally makes no sense. The reason Bonds has an asterisk (to some) is because the players he’s being compared to in this case, Maris, weren’t using PEDs. Your argument only makes sense if you believe the Yankees back then we’re the only team with PED users while every other team was clean as a whistle. And we all know that’s not the case…
And, yet you act like Bonds wasn't the only player who wasn't clean as a whistle, and wasn't hitting against pitchers who were also using...
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are you going to also ask that the Yankees give up their 3-4 championships they won during the steroid era?
Apples to Oranges. This literally makes no sense. The reason Bonds has an asterisk (to some) is because the players he’s being compared to in this case, Maris, weren’t using PEDs. Your argument only makes sense if you believe the Yankees back then we’re the only team with PED users while every other team was clean as a whistle. And we all know that’s not the case…
Those other players were ABSOLUTELY using PEDs. Maris definitely used PEDs. They weren't using steroids, but they were 100% using the PEDs of their era (most notably amphetamines).
Not all PEDs are steroids.
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In comment 15826107 KDavies said:
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are you going to also ask that the Yankees give up their 3-4 championships they won during the steroid era?
Apples to Oranges. This literally makes no sense. The reason Bonds has an asterisk (to some) is because the players he’s being compared to in this case, Maris, weren’t using PEDs. Your argument only makes sense if you believe the Yankees back then we’re the only team with PED users while every other team was clean as a whistle. And we all know that’s not the case…
And, yet you act like Bonds wasn't the only player who wasn't clean as a whistle, and wasn't hitting against pitchers who were also using...
Your logic sucks. Bonds doesn’t have the asterisk because everyone thinks he’s the only one using during that time. He has the asterisk because his record was PED enhanced while the guy that had the record was not. Why is this so fucking hard to grasp? We are talking about his record versus someone else who had the record before he broke it. That’s the comparison. Bonds versus Maris.
More like, you're fortunate enough in your life to have suffered so little pain that somehow you can - with a straight face - refer to baseball's steroid era as "many painful years."
How much pain did those years actually cause you?
Judge is currently: AVG .316. 1st ; HR. 60. 1st ; RBI. 128. 1st ; OPS. 1.123. 1st. (yes, he is first in OPS too!!)
Gehrig 1934 TC stats: AVG 363, 49 HR, and 165 RBI, (The average and RBI's in incredible).
You can spare me your graciousness.
Barry Bonds's seasons did happen. They do count. And they were in another stratosphere compared to what Judge is doing this year, without taking anything away from Judge.
But keep clutching those PED pearls.
Away: 30 HR -- 1.148 OPS (224 OPS+)
I know most Yankees fans wouldn't care but if Judge's Home/Away HR ratio was something like 37/23, we'd be hearing "Little League Ballpark" nonsense. Judge actually hitting better on the road shuts down any possible Yankee Stadium argument.
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In comment 15826107 KDavies said:
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are you going to also ask that the Yankees give up their 3-4 championships they won during the steroid era?
Apples to Oranges. This literally makes no sense. The reason Bonds has an asterisk (to some) is because the players he’s being compared to in this case, Maris, weren’t using PEDs. Your argument only makes sense if you believe the Yankees back then we’re the only team with PED users while every other team was clean as a whistle. And we all know that’s not the case…
Those other players were ABSOLUTELY using PEDs. Maris definitely used PEDs. They weren't using steroids, but they were 100% using the PEDs of their era (most notably amphetamines).
Not all PEDs are steroids.
It’s possible. Nothing would surprise me. But I don’t think “absolutely” and “definitely” mean what you think they do…
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In comment 15826260 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15826107 KDavies said:
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are you going to also ask that the Yankees give up their 3-4 championships they won during the steroid era?
Apples to Oranges. This literally makes no sense. The reason Bonds has an asterisk (to some) is because the players he’s being compared to in this case, Maris, weren’t using PEDs. Your argument only makes sense if you believe the Yankees back then we’re the only team with PED users while every other team was clean as a whistle. And we all know that’s not the case…
Those other players were ABSOLUTELY using PEDs. Maris definitely used PEDs. They weren't using steroids, but they were 100% using the PEDs of their era (most notably amphetamines).
Not all PEDs are steroids.
It’s possible. Nothing would surprise me. But I don’t think “absolutely” and “definitely” mean what you think they do…
They mean precisely what I think they do.
He had a season where he hit .362 with a .609 OBP!! He got on base more than 60% of the times he came to the plate. That's just insane. His OPS that season was 1.422. Just another level and he was facing plenty of pitchers that were using too.
Those seasons happened, I witnessed them in amazement and it was like nothing I will probably ever see again in baseball.
2004 RISP: 187 PA, 111 BB, 3 SO (.394/.754/.944 -- 337 OPS+)
I mean, what the fuck is that lol? He got on base 75% of the time when men were already in scoring position! And that BB/SO ratio is a joke.
The fact that Judge is even approaching those kind of numbers today is amazing.
The Roid years packed on 50 pounds of muscle and rage.
Hummm, no.
But I'll keep an open mind and be vising Cooperstown this winter and look forward to seeing his plaque.
The Roid years packed on 50 pounds of muscle and rage.
I think that's overly simplistic. There are quite a few steroids for which the primary (and in some cases, sole) benefit is recovery time, not muscle growth.
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the daily aches and pains.
The Roid years packed on 50 pounds of muscle and rage.
I think that's overly simplistic. There are quite a few steroids for which the primary (and in some cases, sole) benefit is recovery time, not muscle growth.
See Andy Pettitte as example number 1
That's adorable.
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And yes, I am fortunate, gracious and humble in life to have the opportunity to be standing upright and watch baseball right now. Every day is a gift.
More like, you're fortunate enough in your life to have suffered so little pain that somehow you can - with a straight face - refer to baseball's steroid era as "many painful years."
How much pain did those years actually cause you?
Answer: Alot of emotional pain I went through as new designer PED drugs were rampantly being used as expressed by Jose Canseco in his book. The new designer PED drugs basically allowed these athletes to break all the old major records (except for the 56 hitting streak). My lovable Yankee held records by Maris and Ruth were broken because it did not keep up with current drug policy and allowed the behavior to proliferatevwhich hurt the sport in the end until proper controls were put in place. Seeing my Yankees lose those records to cheaters was just gut wrenching and with what Judge is doing will cure my pain.
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the daily aches and pains.
The Roid years packed on 50 pounds of muscle and rage.
I think that's overly simplistic. There are quite a few steroids for which the primary (and in some cases, sole) benefit is recovery time, not muscle growth.
Not the ones that turn singles hitters into HR cmamps. You know, like the ones being discussed.
I will see myself out.
Hummm, no.
But I'll keep an open mind and be vising Cooperstown this winter and look forward to seeing his plaque.
Yeah, like huge Mets fan Greg from LI, who has said the most glowing things about Bonds on this thread (and he is completely correct).
The whole thing is a farce. There are players in the HOF that used PEDs from the steroids era, managers who benefitted from PED users, a commish who did, and there are players from before the era that used PEDs. Get over it. Nobody knows who is or isn't using. Judge could have used PEDs. Alonso could be too, if you think it's a Yankee specific thing.
Enjoy what Bonds did. Enjoy what Judge is doing. And get over yourself.
I think you need to reevaluate how you experienc pain.
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In comment 15826256 MartyNJ1969 said:
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And yes, I am fortunate, gracious and humble in life to have the opportunity to be standing upright and watch baseball right now. Every day is a gift.
More like, you're fortunate enough in your life to have suffered so little pain that somehow you can - with a straight face - refer to baseball's steroid era as "many painful years."
How much pain did those years actually cause you?
Answer: Alot of emotional pain I went through as new designer PED drugs were rampantly being used as expressed by Jose Canseco in his book. The new designer PED drugs basically allowed these athletes to break all the old major records (except for the 56 hitting streak). My lovable Yankee held records by Maris and Ruth were broken because it did not keep up with current drug policy and allowed the behavior to proliferatevwhich hurt the sport in the end until proper controls were put in place. Seeing my Yankees lose those records to cheaters was just gut wrenching and with what Judge is doing will cure my pain.
Your beloved Mickey Mantle used PEDs. Hank Aaron did as well. Plenty of older HOFers did
Yeah, seems a lot of jealousy towards Bonds....
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.
Yeah, seems a lot of jealousy towards Bonds....
No need to be so angry and jealous on such a beautiful day, man. It's gonna be okay.
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In comment 15826256 MartyNJ1969 said:
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And yes, I am fortunate, gracious and humble in life to have the opportunity to be standing upright and watch baseball right now. Every day is a gift.
More like, you're fortunate enough in your life to have suffered so little pain that somehow you can - with a straight face - refer to baseball's steroid era as "many painful years."
How much pain did those years actually cause you?
Answer: Alot of emotional pain I went through as new designer PED drugs were rampantly being used as expressed by Jose Canseco in his book. The new designer PED drugs basically allowed these athletes to break all the old major records (except for the 56 hitting streak). My lovable Yankee held records by Maris and Ruth were broken because it did not keep up with current drug policy and allowed the behavior to proliferatevwhich hurt the sport in the end until proper controls were put in place. Seeing my Yankees lose those records to cheaters was just gut wrenching and with what Judge is doing will cure my pain.
You experience emotional pain because of drugs and supplements that grown men were taking to improve their performance at their own jobs? Did you also cry every time one of your coworkers topped off their cup of coffee?
Somehow I think you're being dramatic.
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In comment 15826256 MartyNJ1969 said:
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And yes, I am fortunate, gracious and humble in life to have the opportunity to be standing upright and watch baseball right now. Every day is a gift.
More like, you're fortunate enough in your life to have suffered so little pain that somehow you can - with a straight face - refer to baseball's steroid era as "many painful years."
How much pain did those years actually cause you?
Answer: Alot of emotional pain I went through as new designer PED drugs were rampantly being used as expressed by Jose Canseco in his book. The new designer PED drugs basically allowed these athletes to break all the old major records (except for the 56 hitting streak). My lovable Yankee held records by Maris and Ruth were broken because it did not keep up with current drug policy and allowed the behavior to proliferatevwhich hurt the sport in the end until proper controls were put in place. Seeing my Yankees lose those records to cheaters was just gut wrenching and with what Judge is doing will cure my pain.
This one might push you over the edge, Marty...
Is your whole world crumbling right now?
Link - ( New Window )
That's in part because of steroids, but also because there was no defense then like there is today. League-wide, batting numbers are way down because of the way pitchers pitch and defenses defend.
1961: .258 AVG, 4.53 R/G
2004: .264 AVG, 4.81 R/G
2022: .243 AVG, 4.3 R/G
Kmed comparing OBPs of Bonds & Judge is stupid. OBP is calculated by taking the total number of hits, walks, and hit-by pitches and dividing it by the total number of plate appearances. Bonds had 120 IBBs in the year he had a .609 OBP, and that doesn't count the many times he was pitched around. Judge has only been 17 IBBs this year. Idiotic.
That's in part because of steroids, but also because there was no defense then like there is today. League-wide, batting numbers are way down because of the way pitchers pitch and defenses defend.
1961: .258 AVG, 4.53 R/G
2004: .264 AVG, 4.81 R/G
2022: .243 AVG, 4.3 R/G
Kmed comparing OBPs of Bonds & Judge is stupid. OBP is calculated by taking the total number of hits, walks, and hit-by pitches and dividing it by the total number of plate appearances. Bonds had 120 IBBs in the year he had a .609 OBP, and that doesn't count the many times he was pitched around. Judge has only been 17 IBBs this year. Idiotic.
It is extremely relevant in understanding how good Bonds was. The 73 HR season, he walked 177 times. The bat was taken out of Bonds' hands quite often.
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In comment 15826415 MOOPS said:
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the daily aches and pains.
The Roid years packed on 50 pounds of muscle and rage.
I think that's overly simplistic. There are quite a few steroids for which the primary (and in some cases, sole) benefit is recovery time, not muscle growth.
Not the ones that turn singles hitters into HR cmamps. You know, like the ones being discussed.
Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire were singles hitters?
That's in part because of steroids, but also because there was no defense then like there is today. League-wide, batting numbers are way down because of the way pitchers pitch and defenses defend.
1961: .258 AVG, 4.53 R/G
2004: .264 AVG, 4.81 R/G
2022: .243 AVG, 4.3 R/G
Kmed comparing OBPs of Bonds & Judge is stupid. OBP is calculated by taking the total number of hits, walks, and hit-by pitches and dividing it by the total number of plate appearances. Bonds had 120 IBBs in the year he had a .609 OBP, and that doesn't count the many times he was pitched around. Judge has only been 17 IBBs this year. Idiotic.
Just curious, but when did I even remotely compare Judge to Bonds? Did you imagine that so you can call me stupid? Never happened, I accept your apology.
With the steroids or HGH he almost never broke down or got fatigued, hence he could continue to feast on pitchers that were slowing down in August and September from injury and fatigue. And yes some pitchers were taking helpful products too. But that is how he broke the record. HGH is not going to help you barrel up a pitch, that was his natural talent - but it keeps you healthy enough to be able to continue to barrel them up through the year. Bonds had wonderful hand eye coordination to begin with. So without fatigue and injury and some added strength he basically became Superman vs mere mortals - just like Sosa and McGuire.
My guess is he would have still hit 600 HRs without HGH. I think the same thing with A-Rod.
Good post and agree.
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he was pissed after 1998 because inferior players like McGwire and Sosa were the toast of baseball solely due to PED-fueled homers, so Bonds decided to show them what he could do on PEDs. That's why I think keeping him out of the HOF is stupid - he was an easy HOFer before he ever did roids, and none of the other roided up guys did anything remotely close to what he did. That's how damned good Barry Bonds was, clean, PEDs, whatever. Best ballplayer of my lifetime.
Good post and agree.
And A-Rod was a better player than Bonds. Both shot themselves in the foot.
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Bonds' numbers are cheat code level, but the game was completely different from 01-05.... really from 92-2010.
That's in part because of steroids, but also because there was no defense then like there is today. League-wide, batting numbers are way down because of the way pitchers pitch and defenses defend.
1961: .258 AVG, 4.53 R/G
2004: .264 AVG, 4.81 R/G
2022: .243 AVG, 4.3 R/G
Kmed comparing OBPs of Bonds & Judge is stupid. OBP is calculated by taking the total number of hits, walks, and hit-by pitches and dividing it by the total number of plate appearances. Bonds had 120 IBBs in the year he had a .609 OBP, and that doesn't count the many times he was pitched around. Judge has only been 17 IBBs this year. Idiotic.
Just curious, but when did I even remotely compare Judge to Bonds? Did you imagine that so you can call me stupid? Never happened, I accept your apology.
You are on a thread about Judge, you cited OBP and you are an idiot. All things can be true.
With the steroids or HGH he almost never broke down or got fatigued, hence he could continue to feast on pitchers that were slowing down in August and September from injury and fatigue. And yes some pitchers were taking helpful products too. But that is how he broke the record. HGH is not going to help you barrel up a pitch, that was his natural talent - but it keeps you healthy enough to be able to continue to barrel them up through the year. Bonds had wonderful hand eye coordination to begin with. So without fatigue and injury and some added strength he basically became Superman vs mere mortals - just like Sosa and McGuire.
My guess is he would have still hit 600 HRs without HGH. I think the same thing with A-Rod.
Fair.
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he was pissed after 1998 because inferior players like McGwire and Sosa were the toast of baseball solely due to PED-fueled homers, so Bonds decided to show them what he could do on PEDs. That's why I think keeping him out of the HOF is stupid - he was an easy HOFer before he ever did roids, and none of the other roided up guys did anything remotely close to what he did. That's how damned good Barry Bonds was, clean, PEDs, whatever. Best ballplayer of my lifetime.
Good post and agree.
Two wrongs don't make a right
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In comment 15826409 Greg from LI said:
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he was pissed after 1998 because inferior players like McGwire and Sosa were the toast of baseball solely due to PED-fueled homers, so Bonds decided to show them what he could do on PEDs. That's why I think keeping him out of the HOF is stupid - he was an easy HOFer before he ever did roids, and none of the other roided up guys did anything remotely close to what he did. That's how damned good Barry Bonds was, clean, PEDs, whatever. Best ballplayer of my lifetime.
Good post and agree.
Two wrongs don't make a right
Who said he was right?
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In comment 15826531 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 15826409 Greg from LI said:
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he was pissed after 1998 because inferior players like McGwire and Sosa were the toast of baseball solely due to PED-fueled homers, so Bonds decided to show them what he could do on PEDs. That's why I think keeping him out of the HOF is stupid - he was an easy HOFer before he ever did roids, and none of the other roided up guys did anything remotely close to what he did. That's how damned good Barry Bonds was, clean, PEDs, whatever. Best ballplayer of my lifetime.
Good post and agree.
Two wrongs don't make a right
Who said he was right?
Bonds said he was right sic Mac and Sosa were doing it
There have been 15 seasons with a 200+ wRC since integration in 1947.
1 of them was '20 Soto, which was 47 games and shouldn't count. 2 of them were '94 Bagwell/Thomas, but no stats from that season should count as they they played less than 115 games and the juiced balls in '94 had the entire league out of whack.
4 of the others were from Bonds. Another one was from '98 McGwire. Both were obviously outed as PED users.
So excluding any shortened seasons due to strike/COVID and any players who were caught using PEDs, these are the only seasons a player put up 200+ wRC since integration.
wRC+ Leaders since Integration ('47)
1. 1957 Ted Williams ----- 223 wRC+
2. 1957 Mickey Mantle -- 217
3. 2022 Aaron Judge ------ 210
4. 1954 Ted Williams ---- 207
5. 1947 Ted Williams ------ 207
6. 1956 Mickey Mantle ---- 202
7. 1948 Stan Musial ------- 201
3 classic Teddy Ballgame seasons, 2 epic seasons from the Mick, the best season of Stan the Man's career... and Judge.
Pretty damn amazing. I know you can't just erase Bonds/McGwire/Sosa from the record books but it's still cool to see how Judge compares without known PED users on the list.
There have been 15 seasons with a 200+ wRC since integration in 1947.
1 of them was '20 Soto, which was 47 games and shouldn't count. 2 of them were '94 Bagwell/Thomas, but no stats from that season should count as they they played less than 115 games and the juiced balls in '94 had the entire league out of whack.
4 of the others were from Bonds. Another one was from '98 McGwire. Both were obviously outed as PED users.
So excluding any shortened seasons due to strike/COVID and any players who were caught using PEDs, these are the only seasons a player put up 200+ wRC since integration.
wRC+ Leaders since Integration ('47)
1. 1957 Ted Williams ----- 223 wRC+
2. 1957 Mickey Mantle -- 217
3. 2022 Aaron Judge ------ 210
4. 1954 Ted Williams ---- 207
5. 1947 Ted Williams ------ 207
6. 1956 Mickey Mantle ---- 202
7. 1948 Stan Musial ------- 201
3 classic Teddy Ballgame seasons, 2 epic seasons from the Mick, the best season of Stan the Man's career... and Judge.
Pretty damn amazing. I know you can't just erase Bonds/McGwire/Sosa from the record books but it's still cool to see how Judge compares without known PED users on the list.
I think they have to be included on the list. The records count. And I think it would be a good reference.
Ted with the missing 5 or 6 seasons due to war.