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Something to think about as far as 2023 draft goes

jvm52106 : 9/22/2022 1:00 pm
and to be clear this isn't about Jones or what the Giants should do or not do.

The argument about getting a QB, and what happens if we draft 15th or so has been mentioned a lot recently. Well, let's look at some possibilities that may play into our favor next year or at least help if we did want to move up.

Keep in mind there are a few teams with multiple picks but one of them, Miami, lost a pick with the Brady tampering issue. That means there are only 31 1st rd picks this year.

There are a number of teams that are struggling right now:

Atlanta- they might be in the market or Desmond Ridder could be their guy and they look elsewhere.

Tenenssee- they have Willis, will they commit to him or look to get someone else?

las Vegas- Carr is there and as long as he plays well they will most likely stick with him but, they could be willing to deal him if they decide to draft a guy.

Cincinnati- no chance they take a QB

Indianapolis- needs a QB so seeing them start winning games would be in our favor.

Houston (2 picks in RD 1)- should be in the QB market BUT they do like Mills and are unpredictable.

Philadelphia (2 picks)- minus a collapse by Hurts seems like they will not go QB.

LAC- very set at QB.

Pitts- seems to be set with Pickett

Arizona- big money to Murray, not going QB

Detroit (2 picks)- needs a QB, at least it appears that way.

Seattle (2 picks)- needs a QB

Washington- hmm, WC here as they like Howell.

New England- they have Jones

Dallas- seems set with Prescott and $$$$ make it a not likely idea they draft a QB.

Chicago- they have Fields unless he really fails to develop.

Ny Jets- would they pull the plug on Zach Wilson already? I suspect not.

Vikings- might be in the market for a QB depending on what happens this year.

Ravens- all depends on Jackson's contract and what happens there. I doubt they let him slip away but a boatload of picks (Seattle, Detroit) might do it.

Dolphins (had 2 picks, lost 1)- not going QB.

Jags- NO

Packers- Doubtful if Rogers stays, if he leaves then most likely.

Giants- obviously

Bills- no

Bucs- Most likely yes but probably FA/Trade- could see Rogers here for a season after Brady...

Chiefs- No

* so we ant teams like the Bengals, Bears, Jags, Titans (maybe), Falcons (maybe) and Raiders to struggle . The more teams set or appear to be set at QB finish in the bottom half the better chance we have at getting a QB we absolutely want.
As many on BBI like to say...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/22/2022 1:21 pm : link

Let's just wait and see.
Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
GiantBlue : 9/22/2022 1:22 pm : link
If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.
RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/22/2022 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.


Who likes Levis?
I love OP saying it's not about Jones or what will happen  
George from PA : 9/22/2022 1:28 pm : link
But yet under NY Giants....obviously.🤣

RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Hammer : 9/22/2022 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15827496 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.



Who likes Levis?


I've now heard that from a few different sources.

I don't know any more than the next guy, but, as I said, I've seen this before.
I think most fans are hoping we are in a position  
Mike from Ohio : 9/22/2022 1:47 pm : link
to draft a franchise QB next year, but if they finish in the middle of the pack (which would be a welcome surprise) they don't have to force the pick. There are free agents out there, Taylor is under contract, and there will be QBs with upside available in rounds after the first.

You can't force the QB pick which is what I believe happened with Jones. If a guy you like is there try and move up to get him, but if not, there are plenty of places on this team to build while we figure out QB.
RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Jim in Tampa : 9/22/2022 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.

If Baltimore can't sign Jackson, they'll tag him. They're not letting him hit the market in 2023.
RE: I think most fans are hoping we are in a position  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/22/2022 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15827531 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
to draft a franchise QB next year, but if they finish in the middle of the pack (which would be a welcome surprise) they don't have to force the pick. There are free agents out there, Taylor is under contract, and there will be QBs with upside available in rounds after the first.

You can't force the QB pick which is what I believe happened with Jones. If a guy you like is there try and move up to get him, but if not, there are plenty of places on this team to build while we figure out QB.


I think most have come to looking at it this way. I think the QB with upside changes the equation for who starts in 2023. You get a guy you really want he gets on the field right away. You get a guy who you recognize has some flaws and needs time you need a better placeholder than Taylor for 2023 imv.
RE: I love OP saying it's not about Jones or what will happen  
jvm52106 : 9/22/2022 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15827503 George from PA said:
Quote:
But yet under NY Giants....obviously.🤣


It isn't about JOnes, but he also isn't under contract next year.. So we obviously will be in the market for a QB - even if it is JOnes. So for now, we have to assume we do not have one.
RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Bruner4329 : 9/22/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15827541 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.


If Baltimore can't sign Jackson, they'll tag him. They're not letting him hit the market in 2023.


He can be tagged for the next 2 years. End of discussion.
As I said in the other thread..  
Sean : 9/22/2022 2:02 pm : link
The days of just hoping to get the first pick in order to secure a franchise potential QB is antiquated. Savvy GM’s maneuver the draft all the time for QB. The Chiefs as a playoff team landed Mahomes. Schoen can tap into future assets to get the player he covets.
RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Doubledeuce22 : 9/22/2022 2:03 pm : link
In comment 15827541 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.


If Baltimore can't sign Jackson, they'll tag him. They're not letting him hit the market in 2023.


Completely disagree with this. If Lamar feels slighted and tells Baltimore he's not signing with them, Baltimore would be dumb not to trade him at that point.
Even money  
Pepe LePugh : 9/22/2022 2:16 pm : link
DJ is Giants starter next year.
Seattle and Houston have no QB to build around, will likely pick top 5, and have far more assets than Giants to move up if necessary. So Giants may be looking at QB 3 or 4 at best. Early indications for this draft suggest that could be a step down from DJ.
Jackson is the only QB that I see available as 2023 FA that would be an upgrade.
Jones has to show he’s coachable and he has to win some games AND not demand an unreasonable contract.
Ergo,even money he’s back.
RE: RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/22/2022 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15827519 Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15827496 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.



Who likes Levis?



I've now heard that from a few different sources.

I don't know any more than the next guy, but, as I said, I've seen this before.


where?
RE: RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Pepe LePugh : 9/22/2022 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15827566 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15827541 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.


If Baltimore can't sign Jackson, they'll tag him. They're not letting him hit the market in 2023.



Completely disagree with this. If Lamar feels slighted and tells Baltimore he's not signing with them, Baltimore would be dumb not to trade him at that point.

If he’s not under contract,you can’t trade him.
There is a 0% chance that the Giants  
Kmed6000 : 9/22/2022 2:21 pm : link
sign Lamar Jackson as a FA. 0%.
RE: I think most fans are hoping we are in a position  
Spider43 : 9/22/2022 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15827531 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
to draft a franchise QB next year, but if they finish in the middle of the pack (which would be a welcome surprise) they don't have to force the pick. There are free agents out there, Taylor is under contract, and there will be QBs with upside available in rounds after the first.

You can't force the QB pick which is what I believe happened with Jones. If a guy you like is there try and move up to get him, but if not, there are plenty of places on this team to build while we figure out QB.


It's why I've felt we should have seriously considered one last spring. There are gems in every draft. Just because the 'pundits' said last spring's QB class sucked and this spring's QB class is 'gold', doesn't make it so. We had the confluence of multiple high picks, 'scuttlebutt' about the '22 and '23 QB class, and various team needs across the league to work things in our favor. I always had this feeling we wouldn't have a high pick next spring, and the supposed 'gold' QB class next spring isn't going to pan out. It kinda' works out that way, more often than not. We've been in such a big mess the past few years, we needed to be thinking outside the box. Though young, Schoen kinda' strikes me as an old-school kinda' guy.
If you pick between 10-15  
larryflower37 : 9/22/2022 3:11 pm : link
We are drafting the 3-5th best rated QB in the class.
Lewis Kentucky
Jefferson Arkansas
Penix Washington
Richardson Florida
Obviously Young and Stroud are top 5 picks and a run on QBs could add some from above in the top 10.
I was hoping this would be a tank year but I think we need to trade a big package to get one of the top guys if not this draft in the future.
If the Giants have to trade up for their QB in April  
Jay on the Island : 9/22/2022 3:16 pm : link
then so be it.
RE: RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
k2tampa : 9/22/2022 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15827519 Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15827496 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.



Who likes Levis?



I've now heard that from a few different sources.

I don't know any more than the next guy, but, as I said, I've seen this before.


You have "heard that from a few different sources"? Inside the Giants organization? Unless that is the "source" I wish people would stop saying this. Sources are people with inside knowledge. Most who claim this have just read posts on social media, or tweets from reporters speculating that because he is a QB, and many think the Giants MUST draft a QB, they are interested in him. Especially since his size is similar to Allen. It's probably mostly posts from people on this board.

The only "sources" who could reliably state this are inside the organization. None of this has come from the Giants. They have barely started the appraisal process. I would wager they have interest in just about every QB who might go in the first 3 or 4 rounds. Reading something on social media is not "hearing it from sources". It's repeating what you read somewhere, which is fine. Just say that.
jvm  
Vanzetti : 9/22/2022 3:54 pm : link
Thanks for that rundown of the QB situation for all those teams.

Very informative
RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
bw in dc : 9/22/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15827496 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.



Who likes Levis?


Giants were apparently in attendance for the FL-KY game two weeks ago. I want to say Schoen was leading the charge...
As each week goes by, it seems that there are fewer QB prospects than  
Ivan15 : 9/22/2022 4:29 pm : link
There were at the start of the season. And there weren’t that many to begin with. Good chance they re-sign Jones if he can win 9-10 games, but if he wins 9-10 games, he may get better offers elsewhere.
RE: As each week goes by, it seems that there are fewer QB prospects than  
Maijay : 9/22/2022 6:36 pm : link
In comment 15827805 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
There were at the start of the season. And there weren’t that many to begin with. Good chance they re-sign Jones if he can win 9-10 games, but if he wins 9-10 games, he may get better offers elsewhere.


Let us see what DJ does this year before we go overboard on the need for a QB from this years crop of QBs. I trust in Schoen and the staff assessment of those QB's coming out this year. If Jones isn't the answer then it is a must to try and find his successor in the upcoming draft. Keep DJ or move on from him is a key priority of the Giants this season besides winning.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/22/2022 6:40 pm : link
I think Schoen will move up for his QB if he has a strong enough feeling on someone. I feel that Levis is going to go top 10.
RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Jack Stroud : 9/22/2022 7:02 pm : link
In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.
Come on man, the Giants have enough RB's!
And if Jones plays well...  
Milton : 9/22/2022 11:08 pm : link
They could resign him to a longterm deal and take a developmental QB on Day 3 (like Sam Howell, for instance).
RE: As I said in the other thread..  
section125 : 9/22/2022 11:16 pm : link
In comment 15827565 Sean said:
Quote:
The days of just hoping to get the first pick in order to secure a franchise potential QB is antiquated. Savvy GM’s maneuver the draft all the time for QB. The Chiefs as a playoff team landed Mahomes. Schoen can tap into future assets to get the player he covets.


Sorry, but this team is so full of holes that they cannot afford to trade away copious picks for a QB.
RE: RE: As I said in the other thread..  
Sean : 9/22/2022 11:24 pm : link
In comment 15828150 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15827565 Sean said:


Quote:


The days of just hoping to get the first pick in order to secure a franchise potential QB is antiquated. Savvy GM’s maneuver the draft all the time for QB. The Chiefs as a playoff team landed Mahomes. Schoen can tap into future assets to get the player he covets.



Sorry, but this team is so full of holes that they cannot afford to trade away copious picks for a QB.

I disagree. If there is a QB they like enough who can be a franchise altering player, you absolutely go get him.
RE: RE: RE: As I said in the other thread..  
section125 : 9/22/2022 11:28 pm : link
In comment 15828155 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15828150 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15827565 Sean said:


Quote:


The days of just hoping to get the first pick in order to secure a franchise potential QB is antiquated. Savvy GM’s maneuver the draft all the time for QB. The Chiefs as a playoff team landed Mahomes. Schoen can tap into future assets to get the player he covets.



Sorry, but this team is so full of holes that they cannot afford to trade away copious picks for a QB.


I disagree. If there is a QB they like enough who can be a franchise altering player, you absolutely go get him.


I disagree - there are no franchise altering QBs in this draft and you are not getting one after the 15 pick with the garbage coming out of the NCAA this year.
RE: RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Snablats : 9/22/2022 11:46 pm : link
In comment 15827795 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15827496 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15827492 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


If so...he might be our guy in 2023.

If not, we know the brainstrust like Levis out of Kentucky.



Who likes Levis?



Giants were apparently in attendance for the FL-KY game two weeks ago. I want to say Schoen was leading the charge...

We know Schoen likes Levis because he went to scout him? He was also scouting Richardson and a bunch of other players

And Levis hasnt looked so hot thus far
+ or - 500  
Paul326 : 9/23/2022 1:41 pm : link
If the Giants finish with a record in that rage they will be drafting in the middle of each round so more than likely most if not all the top QB prospects will have been taken by the time they’re on the clock. In that scenario what do they do, draft BPA and look for a developmental QB in later rounds and live with DJ on a short term deal while they see what they have or do they trade some precious draft that they can’t afford to loose to move up 7+ spots to get one the top QBs. I don’t think the FA market is where you’ll find a QB that’s an upgrade over DJ willing to come to a team that’s still got some rebuilding to do.
Levis  
Rick in Dallas : 9/23/2022 1:46 pm : link
Has all the physical attributes for a quality NFL QB but really needs to improve his decision making process.
College QBs so far  
JonC : 9/23/2022 1:49 pm : link
not terribly impressive, and even the top few have warts.
RE: College QBs so far  
Snablats : 9/23/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15828593 JonC said:
Quote:
not terribly impressive, and even the top few have warts.

Which is what I've been saying

And if there are teams ahead of the Giants in the draft who need QBs, say goodbye to Stroud and Young, because those teams wont trade out

Add in that there arent many quality QBs floating around the league and it adds up to what Ive been saying - Jones may be the best option next season
 
christian : 9/23/2022 2:55 pm : link
If Schoen covets a QB, look no further than the journey the playoff-surprise 2018 Bills took to draft draft question mark Josh Allen.

The Giants have a bunch of guys now who know what to look for in a QB. If they like someone, they’ll make the necessary moves to get there.
RE: If the Giants have to trade up for their QB in April  
Milton : 9/23/2022 4:47 pm : link
In comment 15827703 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
then so be it.
And if they are perfectly happy with Jones, so be it. None of us have any idea what the Giants are thinking.
RE: As I said in the other thread..  
Milton : 9/23/2022 5:06 pm : link
In comment 15827565 Sean said:
Quote:
The days of just hoping to get the first pick in order to secure a franchise potential QB is antiquated. Savvy GM’s maneuver the draft all the time for QB. The Chiefs as a playoff team landed Mahomes.
Exactly, it's how the Niners landed Trey Lance, the Bears landed Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields, the Redskins landed RG3, the Rams landed Jared Goff, the Eagles landed Carson Wentz, the Jaguars landed Blaine Gabbert, the Broncos landed Jay Cutler, and the Jets landed Mark Sanchez and Sam Darnold...so, yeah, if Schoen has a conviction on the next Sam Darnold or Mark Sanchez, he only needs to look across the facility at the Jets to see how to get it done!
RE: …  
Milton : 9/23/2022 5:11 pm : link
In comment 15828637 christian said:
Quote:
If Schoen covets a QB, look no further than the journey the playoff-surprise 2018 Bills took to draft draft question mark Josh Allen.
And if Sam Darnold was still available, who would the Bills have taken?
RE: RE: As I said in the other thread..  
Snablats : 9/23/2022 7:45 pm : link
In comment 15828779 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15827565 Sean said:


Quote:


The days of just hoping to get the first pick in order to secure a franchise potential QB is antiquated. Savvy GM’s maneuver the draft all the time for QB. The Chiefs as a playoff team landed Mahomes.

Exactly, it's how the Niners landed Trey Lance, the Bears landed Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields, the Redskins landed RG3, the Rams landed Jared Goff, the Eagles landed Carson Wentz, the Jaguars landed Blaine Gabbert, the Broncos landed Jay Cutler, and the Jets landed Mark Sanchez and Sam Darnold...so, yeah, if Schoen has a conviction on the next Sam Darnold or Mark Sanchez, he only needs to look across the facility at the Jets to see how to get it done!

No, you arent allowed to name the 1st round failures. You can only mention Allen and Mahomes
 
christian : 9/23/2022 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15828782 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15828637 christian said:


Quote:


If Schoen covets a QB, look no further than the journey the playoff-surprise 2018 Bills took to draft draft question mark Josh Allen.

And if Sam Darnold was still available, who would the Bills have taken?


Sam Darnold. The Bills were aggressively pursuing a trade with the Colts.

And if Darnold goes to Buffalo with Daboll and Dorsey, I suspect his NFL career is markedly different.

A great quarterback is the product of the right talent and right coaching.

We’ve all seen what Daboll and Kafka can do with paired with high talent QBs.
RE: RE: As I said in the other thread..  
Sean : 9/23/2022 8:24 pm : link
In comment 15828779 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15827565 Sean said:


Quote:


The days of just hoping to get the first pick in order to secure a franchise potential QB is antiquated. Savvy GM’s maneuver the draft all the time for QB. The Chiefs as a playoff team landed Mahomes.

Exactly, it's how the Niners landed Trey Lance, the Bears landed Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields, the Redskins landed RG3, the Rams landed Jared Goff, the Eagles landed Carson Wentz, the Jaguars landed Blaine Gabbert, the Broncos landed Jay Cutler, and the Jets landed Mark Sanchez and Sam Darnold...so, yeah, if Schoen has a conviction on the next Sam Darnold or Mark Sanchez, he only needs to look across the facility at the Jets to see how to get it done!

Funny you don’t include the Cardinals trading up for Josh Rosen.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
bw in dc : 9/23/2022 8:38 pm : link
In comment 15828164 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15827795 bw in dc said:


Giants were apparently in attendance for the FL-KY game two weeks ago. I want to say Schoen was leading the charge...


We know Schoen likes Levis because he went to scout him? He was also scouting Richardson and a bunch of other players

And Levis hasnt looked so hot thus far


I was just providing information to Googs that the Giants were in attendance to watch the Kentucky-Florida game. It would seem they were there to watch the QBs.

For the most part, I like what I've seen from Levis so far.

Kentucky has had some key turnover on the offense from last year to this year. And they don't get the 4+ stars that the Bamas, Ohio States, Georgias, etc of the world. So, I think the Wildcat offense is going through growing pains.

For everyone who talks about all the QB’s who haven’t worked  
Sean : 9/23/2022 10:41 pm : link
Why isn’t Jones included in that? Has Jones produced like a 6th pick in the draft should?
RE: For everyone who talks about all the QB’s who haven’t worked  
christian : 9/23/2022 11:42 pm : link
In comment 15829007 Sean said:
Quote:
Why isn’t Jones included in that? Has Jones produced like a 6th pick in the draft should?


This a great question. And by extension why would it be so hard to replace him with a much cheaper alternative?
RE: As each week goes by, it seems that there are fewer QB prospects than  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/24/2022 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15827805 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
There were at the start of the season. And there weren’t that many to begin with. Good chance they re-sign Jones if he can win 9-10 games, but if he wins 9-10 games, he may get better offers elsewhere.

Better offers elsewhere?

And posters have the nerve to pretend there isn't an active DJFC on BBI.
RE: For everyone who talks about all the QB’s who haven’t worked  
bw in dc : 9/24/2022 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15829007 Sean said:
Quote:
Why isn’t Jones included in that? Has Jones produced like a 6th pick in the draft should?


Because Jones hasn't had _______ or _______ or ________ or _________ etc.

You fill in the blanks.

Our owner certainly did...



 
christian : 9/24/2022 1:55 pm : link
It’s not even October. The college QBs are just getting warmed up.

Prospects are determined during the meaningful games and the post season process. Making a determination about quarterback prospects less than a week into the Fall is hilarious.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Isn't Lamar Jackson a FA after this year?  
Snablats : 9/24/2022 2:07 pm : link
In comment 15828911 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15828164 Snablats said:


Quote:


In comment 15827795 bw in dc said:


Giants were apparently in attendance for the FL-KY game two weeks ago. I want to say Schoen was leading the charge...


We know Schoen likes Levis because he went to scout him? He was also scouting Richardson and a bunch of other players

And Levis hasnt looked so hot thus far



I was just providing information to Googs that the Giants were in attendance to watch the Kentucky-Florida game. It would seem they were there to watch the QBs.

For the most part, I like what I've seen from Levis so far.

Kentucky has had some key turnover on the offense from last year to this year. And they don't get the 4+ stars that the Bamas, Ohio States, Georgias, etc of the world. So, I think the Wildcat offense is going through growing pains.

You wrote "we know the braintrust likes Levis out of Kentucky"

That's a quote from you. Fact is we don't know if they like him or not. We do know that they scouted him along with Richardson and a bunch of other players at that game
Who do the Giants get when they pick  
Giantimistic : 9/24/2022 2:10 pm : link
31?
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