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The Rebuild - Part One

Reale01 : 9/23/2022 10:30 am
Some say that drafting a new QB is not a sure thing. I think it should be if the front office uses some common sense. IIRC Almost everyone on BBI wanted Josh Allen when the Giants picked Barkley. There may have been a couple who wanted to trade down and draft Lamar Jackson, but I don't remember anyone who wanted Mayfield, Rosen, or Darnold. Even BBI knew that would be worse than wasting the pick on Barkley.

Speaking of Jones, it was clear from his first pre-season game that he was a bad pick. He turns the ball over at an alarming clip (already 2 this year), He makes star receivers look bad (especially ex-Lions like Golladay and Tate), and virtually ruined Engram (our all-pro TE) with uncatchable throws. He holds the ball so long that it makes the OL look bad, and has cost us two coaches. He made offensive coordinators like Mike Shula, Jason Garrett, Freddie Kitchens look bad. All are in-demand and will soon find better jobs.

We will almost assuredly get a QB that is WAY better than DJ in the 2023 draft. The 2022 season is quickly slipping away and the team will be looking for a new coach in 2024 unless things improve dramatically in 2023.
......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 9/23/2022 10:34 am : link
I remember most wanting either Darnold or Rosen over Josh Allen. (myself included)

He was a big measurables guy - but from a smaller school program - and I remember a lot of gripes over his college completion percentage.

You just never know..

Wait what??  
jvm52106 : 9/23/2022 10:34 am : link
Umm, there were plenty of people who wanted Rosen, Darnold etc, before Allen. Many (myself included) wanted a trade down and wanted Nelson!

I have a different recollection  
steve in ky : 9/23/2022 10:34 am : link
Quote:
Almost everyone on BBI wanted Josh Allen when the Giants picked Barkley. There may have been a couple who wanted to trade down and draft Lamar Jackson, but I don't remember anyone who wanted Mayfield, Rosen, or Darnold.


Seriously? Allen was rarely mentioned....  
George from PA : 9/23/2022 10:37 am : link
Rosen and Darnold was primary candidate.

I wanted Herbert....but he stayed the extra year....

And considering very few QBs in the NFL are young and special.....they miss far more than they hit in the draft.

Being decent and cheap is the best we should expect drafting a QB
I recall Rosen getting a lot  
rebel yell : 9/23/2022 10:41 am : link
of love on this site. Assume most are Rosen deniers now. I was agnostic. It's always a bit of a crap shoot with QBs.
Am I the only one....  
Johnny5 : 9/23/2022 10:46 am : link
... who has their sarcasm meter ticking today?

lol well done
.  
arcarsenal : 9/23/2022 10:47 am : link
Your recollection is way off. Allen was not a popular name here prior to that draft. The majority of posters here were torn on Darnold and Rosen. A handful liked Mayfield. But, outside of a few very limited posters, Josh Allen was nowhere near consensus.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/23/2022 10:48 am : link
Ah, it's sarcasm. I haven't had enough coffee yet.
The advocates were for  
RAIN : 9/23/2022 10:48 am : link
1) Darnold 2) Rosen and some wanted to trade down.

Some talked Chubb. But it was mostly Darnold and Barkley.
"...and virtually ruined Engram (our all-pro TE)  
M.S. : 9/23/2022 10:52 am : link

with uncatchable throws."

If you can actually write this about Daniel Jones, then you are biased.
these guys are in demand?  
KDavies : 9/23/2022 10:56 am : link
"He made offensive coordinators like Mike Shula, Jason Garrett, Freddie Kitchens look bad. All are in-demand and will soon find better jobs."
Sarcasm - well done  
PatersonPlank : 9/23/2022 10:57 am : link
loved the "ruined Engrams career"
Allen?  
RHPeel : 9/23/2022 10:58 am : link
I don't recall Josh Allen the QB being a popular choice in 2018. I *do* recall Josh Allen the EDGE being the popular choice in 2019. Perhaps there's confusion there?

I wanted the trade-down, and then play the board to grab one of Bradley Chubb, Saquon, or (my preference) Nelson. Basically, what the Colts did was the right play IMO.
Well done if sarcasm. It sadly kind of sums up some  
steve in ky : 9/23/2022 11:00 am : link
Of the football posts these past couple years that sarcasm gets to easily lost in amongst the genuine haha
I was way down on Allen....  
Hades07 : 9/23/2022 11:03 am : link
I wasn't a big fan of the QB class overall, but I liked Darnold and Rosen best of them with Jackson a distant 3rd.

I was not a fan of taking a RB that high, but I also didn't like the QB talent in that draft.

Missed the boat big time with Allen. Though I don't think he would have found success here.

The main reason I think so many highly drafted QBs fail is because they go to teams not equipped, either do to coaching or talent, to properly develop a QB.

I think more teams looking to draft a QB high to save their team, really should be looking at the state of their coaching and the roster talent and evaluate if they are even in a position to make drafting the QB worthwhile. Few QBs coming out of college can rise above and succeed regardless of the poor situation in which they find themselves.
RE: Am I the only one....  
Reale01 : 9/23/2022 11:04 am : link
In comment 15828390 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
... who has their sarcasm meter ticking today?

lol well done


I guess so.
RE: RE: Am I the only one....  
M.S. : 9/23/2022 11:07 am : link
In comment 15828426 Reale01 said:
Quote:
In comment 15828390 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


... who has their sarcasm meter ticking today?

lol well done



I guess so.

This went way over my head!
.  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/23/2022 11:09 am : link
Quote:
Speaking of Jones, it was clear from his first pre-season game that he was a bad pick.


If you think anything is clear from a rookie's first pre-season game, you are unqualified to be speaking about the sport of American football.
RE: RE: Am I the only one....  
jhibb : 9/23/2022 11:10 am : link
In comment 15828426 Reale01 said:
Quote:
In comment 15828390 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


... who has their sarcasm meter ticking today?

lol well done



I guess so.


Lol. I think some people didn't even get past the first paragraph before typing their responses.
RE: Well done if sarcasm. It sadly kind of sums up some  
jhibb : 9/23/2022 11:15 am : link
In comment 15828419 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Of the football posts these past couple years that sarcasm gets to easily lost in amongst the genuine haha


Exactly. There's no other site I visit where I feel like I have less a grasp on what posts are serious vs sarcastic.
For the record, this one was over-the-top enough on enough topics that I thought it was hard to miss. :-)
RE: Well done if sarcasm. It sadly kind of sums up some  
Reale01 : 9/23/2022 11:15 am : link
In comment 15828419 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Of the football posts these past couple years that sarcasm gets to easily lost in amongst the genuine haha


This is my way of saying that it has gotten a little out of hand in a hopefully amusing way. Funny how people took it seriously. The can Jones get a new guys should take note that it is not that easy and it is not the Giants God given right to have one of the top 5 QBs in the game. Actually, we have not had that in my lifetime other than maybe Tarkington.
RE: RE: Well done if sarcasm. It sadly kind of sums up some  
steve in ky : 9/23/2022 11:18 am : link
In comment 15828455 Reale01 said:
Quote:
In comment 15828419 steve in ky said:


Quote:


Of the football posts these past couple years that sarcasm gets to easily lost in amongst the genuine haha



This is my way of saying that it has gotten a little out of hand in a hopefully amusing way. Funny how people took it seriously. The can Jones get a new guys should take note that it is not that easy and it is not the Giants God given right to have one of the top 5 QBs in the game. Actually, we have not had that in my lifetime other than maybe Tarkington.


+1
the first part of any rebuild  
BigBlueCane : 9/23/2022 11:28 am : link
is the teardown to the bones and rebuilding the foundation.

That's where we are now.
This is a bit of revisionist history.  
Section331 : 9/23/2022 11:34 am : link
There was only one poster I can recall clammering for Josh Allen, and GoTerps was the only one advocating for Lamar. Darnold and Rosen were the 2 most posters liked, with a few Baker advocates mixed in.

Drafting a QB is really hard, which is why the experts get it wrong so often. But it is something that must be done. The one thing I think we have in our favor is that Daboll has a track record of developing a QB. Josh Allen was a train wreck coming out of Montana. His physical attributes were off the charts, but his mechanics were equally awful. Daboll was part of the team that developed him into a passable starter in year one, to an absolute superstar now. I'd like to see if he can do that here.
RE: I was way down on Allen....  
Reale01 : 9/23/2022 11:38 am : link
In comment 15828422 Hades07 said:
Quote:
I wasn't a big fan of the QB class overall, but I liked Darnold and Rosen best of them with Jackson a distant 3rd.

I was not a fan of taking a RB that high, but I also didn't like the QB talent in that draft.

Missed the boat big time with Allen. Though I don't think he would have found success here.




The main reason I think so many highly drafted QBs fail is because they go to teams not equipped, either do to coaching or talent, to properly develop a QB.

I think more teams looking to draft a QB high to save their team, really should be looking at the state of their coaching and the roster talent and evaluate if they are even in a position to make drafting the QB worthwhile. Few QBs coming out of college can rise above and succeed regardless of the poor situation in which they find themselves.


Very well put. A rebuild does not require a scortched earth policy. It requires the right people, a solid plan, and not forcing things. Do not get rid of useful (if not perfect) players until you have someone better. Keep the good players you have and continue to improve the roster with BPA's.
Well done  
csh2z : 9/23/2022 11:52 am : link
Caught the sarcasm from the start. I'm more surprised that so many didn't see it. Fun read.
People here were all over the board b  
Bleedblue10 : 9/23/2022 12:09 pm : link
During the 18 draft. Some wanted Allen, others Darnold and Rosen(myself included but I more just wanted a qb and would’ve been happy with anyone other than Mayfield who I never liked) There was also a fair share of people who loved the Barkley pick. If anyone here is claiming they saw this coming with Allen they are not being honest.
Oh and btw  
Bleedblue10 : 9/23/2022 12:09 pm : link
Jones looked great in his first preseason. You got facts mixed up my friend. It happens
Oh ok  
Bleedblue10 : 9/23/2022 12:10 pm : link
Late to the party
This thread is hilarious, and telling  
Diversify yo bonds : 9/23/2022 12:12 pm : link
Good job Reale
I admit, I wanted 'Chosen' Rosen  
Dave : 9/23/2022 12:28 pm : link
and I am not ready to replace dj, forget 30M/ but he seems to be a decent qb and should realize he is not elite and is not going to be paid as such

focus on improving the OL WR and CB and hope dj elevates his game accordingly imo
The Giants Will Likely Have to Follow the Chiefs or Bills Path  
lax counsel : 9/23/2022 12:29 pm : link
To get their qb and be willing to part with substantial assets to move to the back of the top 10 to get a highly talented qb that fell a little. Its unlikely with this coach and defense the team bottoms out again like under DG and the tail end of Reese.
Hades you make  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/23/2022 12:46 pm : link
a good point about teams not taking responsibility. There has definitely been this "Get your QB it all turns" mentality.

I used to remember the good HC's used to try to accomplish two things first. Protect your QB and give him a running game. Get him favorable down/distance. Build out from that point.

I liked Allen and saw him at Wyoming. Jim Klatt said he thought he be the number one pick. I looked into him after that and thought he had a lot of upside. I was concerned with his plate in his shoulder. I also liked Rosen and am pretty shocked how things went for him. I think it was reported Shurmur liked Allen.

Didn't mind SB pick. I understood it. I didn't know him well but I thought he be a more physical and complete back.
It’s a good post and shows how hard it is to hit on these picks  
Sean : 9/23/2022 12:48 pm : link
.
I wanted Nelson  
RasputinPrime : 9/23/2022 12:57 pm : link
or Barkley. Unless you know the QB has the stuff, you it's a complete wasted pick.
2 turnovers in 2 games is an alarming clip?  
OBJ_AllDay : 9/23/2022 1:03 pm : link
Look around the league...

Jones likely isn't it but pointing to his first preseason game and slamming him for a fumble any qb in the league would have taken in game 1 to make the point is reaching.

Ah went over my head read too fast  
OBJ_AllDay : 9/23/2022 1:04 pm : link
Lol damnit. Have a good weekend everyone.
...  
christian : 9/23/2022 1:11 pm : link
You know who really wanted Josh Allen? The Buffalo Bills.

Buffalo sent the 21st, 185th overall pick, and Cordy Glenn to the Bengals in exchange for the 12th and 187th overall picks.

Then they traded the 12th, 53rd, and 56th overall picks for the 7th and 255th overall pick from Tampa Bay.

Buffalo was prepared to move up with Denver to 5 and pick Allen there until the Broncos backed out when Chubb fell.

That's great scouting and conviction.
RE: Allen?  
Beer Man : 9/23/2022 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15828415 RHPeel said:
Quote:
I don't recall Josh Allen the QB being a popular choice in 2018. I *do* recall Josh Allen the EDGE being the popular choice in 2019. Perhaps there's confusion there?

I wanted the trade-down, and then play the board to grab one of Bradley Chubb, Saquon, or (my preference) Nelson. Basically, what the Colts did was the right play IMO.
This! Coming into the draft Josh Allen was seen as a physically gifted QB who would need a lot of refinement if he was ever to be a great QB (his draft profile also mentioned accuracy issues). Many draft experts saw him as the 4th or 5th QB in the 2018 draft, and much of the BBI QB chatter at the time was should the team take Darnold or Rosen; very few mentioned Allen. It is only now that Allen has blossomed that hindsight has taken over for some.
RE: Seriously? Allen was rarely mentioned....  
Beer Man : 9/23/2022 1:27 pm : link
In comment 15828372 George from PA said:
Quote:
Rosen and Darnold was primary candidate.

I wanted Herbert....but he stayed the extra year....

And considering very few QBs in the NFL are young and special.....they miss far more than they hit in the draft.

Being decent and cheap is the best we should expect drafting a QB
You're getting you draft years mixed up. Herbert wasn't eligible for the draft in 2018. It was 2019 that many thought he would enter the draft, but he chose instead to stay in school for his senior season. DG had personally attended a couple of Herbert's games,and the rumor was that DG wanted to draft him. But Herbert chose not to enter the 2019 Draft so DG picked DJ with the 6th pick.
You lost me at  
Will Shine : 9/23/2022 1:58 pm : link
it was clear at the first preseason game.
This thread...  
Johnny5 : 9/23/2022 2:00 pm : link
... is absolutely hilarious
RE: You lost me at  
Chris in Philly : 9/23/2022 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15828600 Will Shine said:
Quote:
it was clear at the first preseason game.


I think he lost you before that... ;)
TheRebuild can start  
Carl in CT : 9/23/2022 2:06 pm : link
After a playoff run. Not before. Jesus. Let’s throw away another season! NOT!!!!
Good job Reale01  
Blue21 : 9/23/2022 2:19 pm : link
.Nicely played
if we've gotten the architect  
Dave on the UWS : 9/23/2022 3:01 pm : link
and the contractor in house, than THAT'S the start. Can't build a foundation or a house without guys who know what they are doing. There are some pieces to build with, that's also a start. LONG way to go though. Not expecting miracles this year. Looks like they can be competitive weekly. That's also a start.
Not embarrassed  
Thegratefulhead : 9/23/2022 3:13 pm : link
Rosen
Mayfield
Allen
Darnold.

Allen was small school, with a low completion with absurd measurables. I learned from this. Cosell was on Rosen. He had detailed video breakdown. It sold me. I no longer appeal to authority.
OP suffering from Selective Memory  
giantstock : 9/23/2022 3:15 pm : link
Almost everyone wanted Josh Allen is laughable.

I have to say I was way wrong - I liked Rosen. SY and Cosell loved Rosen.
RE: ...  
Sean : 9/23/2022 3:30 pm : link
In comment 15828567 christian said:
Quote:
You know who really wanted Josh Allen? The Buffalo Bills.

Buffalo sent the 21st, 185th overall pick, and Cordy Glenn to the Bengals in exchange for the 12th and 187th overall picks.

Then they traded the 12th, 53rd, and 56th overall picks for the 7th and 255th overall pick from Tampa Bay.

Buffalo was prepared to move up with Denver to 5 and pick Allen there until the Broncos backed out when Chubb fell.

That's great scouting and conviction.

And a prime reason why Schoen probably got the nod over Adam Peters.
lololol  
Johnny5 : 9/23/2022 3:42 pm : link
It' a gift... that just keeps on giving.

Reale I am advocating for free tix for you. Or maybe Eric can work out some kind of ad-free connection or something, just for you... lol
Can anyone explain to me…  
trueblueinpw : 9/23/2022 3:52 pm : link
Who the fuck cares who I wanted to draft? Is the Giants front office excused from lousy draft picks because me and some other fans wanted to draft Josh Rosen? I never understood how my getting a pick wrong exonerates the serial buffoonery of Giants GMs. Are these guys making millions of dollars a year to best me and my peers here on BBI?
Laughing out loud  
Reale01 : 9/23/2022 4:03 pm : link
Some of these responses are absolutely hilarious - especially the ones that attack my "ignorance". That said, they really drive home the point - enjoy 2-0 - talk about the rebuild in the off season. QBs in the draft are a crapshoot. Anyone that says otherwise is full of it.

People here forget how good DJ was his first year, yeah their were too many turnovers, but they were mostly fumbles not ints and he did a lot of good things. Let's hope that DJ can be a solid QB this year and continue to grow from that. He has completed 70% of his passes and led 2 game winning drives this year. Clearly not all him - but still. I am not sold on him, but some act like he is dogfood.

Fine, if the FA has conviction on a better QB by trade or draft. That is true of any player, any position. Just continue to improve the roster by adding good players.

I really hope the Giants don't have to give up a ton of draft capital on a QB as picking good players on a BPA is much more reliable than a top 10 QB.

If we do decide a QB upgrade is needed. I hope we can find a Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, Kirk Cousins, Russel Wilson, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, David Carr as guys who fell to the back of round 1 or later and continue to stock the roster.
I won't describe what I think of anyone who states  
Bob in Newburgh : 9/23/2022 5:37 pm : link
"It was clear from the 1st preseason game"

and not using it to describe an obvious physical characteristic such as huge, fast, etc.
 
christian : 9/23/2022 6:17 pm : link
The starting quarterbacks in the NFL who were top 10 picks of their current team are: Burrow, Herbert, Jones, Lawrence, Tua, Murray, and Allen. Did I miss anyone?

The lion’s share of starters and plenty of good QBs in the league were acquired outside of that narrow criteria.

That top 10 group is really talented, save for a one or two guys. Too bad the Giants seem to be on the outside of that group.

The Giants have good QB evaluators — they can trade up, stay put, or trade for a veteran. They aren’t sentenced to mediocrity with Daniel Jones.
RE: …  
RicFlair : 9/24/2022 11:26 am : link
In comment 15828811 christian said:
Quote:
The starting quarterbacks in the NFL who were top 10 picks of their current team are: Burrow, Herbert, Jones, Lawrence, Tua, Murray, and Allen. Did I miss anyone?

The lion’s share of starters and plenty of good QBs in the league were acquired outside of that narrow criteria.

That top 10 group is really talented, save for a one or two guys. Too bad the Giants seem to be on the outside of that group.

The Giants have good QB evaluators — they can trade up, stay put, or trade for a veteran. They aren’t sentenced to mediocrity with Daniel Jones.


Now do super bowl winning qbs.
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