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NFT: Vetoing Fantasy Football Trades

ImThatGuy : 9/23/2022 2:30 pm
What's the consensus here - do you all ever veto trades?

Backstory I'm in a league same group of guys for >15 years .. all good friends, not a super competitive league but reasonably. Commish has sole veto discretion and to date I don't think a single trade has ever been veto'd

A trade was recently accepted that would give someone a pretty stacked team this year but he did give up draft picks for next year. Really don't think there is any collusion and one guy is wagering his future a bit, so I'm thinking of letting the trade stand. Thoughts?
I would never vote to veto  
US1 Giants : 9/23/2022 2:35 pm : link
unless collusion was very clear.
I hate when people think of trades being fair for vetoing.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/23/2022 2:36 pm : link
It doesn't matter if a team is stacked. It doesn't matter if it is an uneven trade. Are any rules being broken? That is really what it comes down to.

Hell, in my league last night, the worst team in the league traded their first round pick and Penny for Henry and his 5th. This team didn't have a pick until the 5th round this year. Does it upset the balance of the league? Yes. Does it create really good teams and really shitty teams? Yes. But these are the rules we have in place. We all know it going in. There are no grounds for a veto.
I don’t believe in trade vetos  
DefenseWins : 9/23/2022 2:38 pm : link
Unless you can prove that the two parties are doing it so they can split the prize money.

Other than that, you don’t veto trades. It is all subjective and sometimes team A gives up a better player (on paper) to team B. However team A may be stacked in one area and is receiving a player who can help the roster bringing a net points gain to that team.

Or maybe if you are trading for draft picks team A is thinking about next year. What is wrong with that?

If you have a trust issue, then just quit the league after the season. Just don’t veto trades. Also the other league members should never have a vote…. Ever.
Our trades are executed immediately...  
RC in MD : 9/23/2022 2:50 pm : link
no managers have a say in how two or more managers decide to trade their players. As long as the trades are made in earnest with both sides attempting to make their teams better, we don't care about the trades.

We look out for obvious collusions or managers trying to poison the league by purposely making shit trades, but those are extremely rare.
Seems Fair  
give66 : 9/23/2022 2:54 pm : link
I did that in a dynasty league I joined. Sold out my team for a year or 2 for picks and it helped me win down the road.
If the guy  
Straw Hat : 9/23/2022 2:54 pm : link
Losing the good players is getting high end draft capital its totally fair.
RE: I would never vote to veto  
GiantsLaw : 9/23/2022 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15828620 US1 Giants said:
Quote:
unless collusion was very clear.

+1
Never veto  
terz22 : 9/23/2022 3:19 pm : link
Unless collusion maybe suspected but often hard to prove.
if the league allows trading picks for players  
UConn4523 : 9/23/2022 3:22 pm : link
than you can't veto.

As the commish in my league I don't believe in just blindly letting every trade go through - I review each and make sure it isn't completely wild. If it is I'll do some digging and see where I end up. Haven't had to veto a trade in a really long time.
RE: if the league allows trading picks for players  
RC in MD : 9/23/2022 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15828669 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
than you can't veto.

As the commish in my league I don't believe in just blindly letting every trade go through - I review each and make sure it isn't completely wild. If it is I'll do some digging and see where I end up. Haven't had to veto a trade in a really long time.


We don't do picks for players, but as the commish in my league, I'm not going to make the determination on whether trades are wild or not. As long as both managers believe that they are making the right move for their own teams, I think they should be able to make whatever trades that they are comfortable with, no matter how dumb it is.
sure but like i said  
UConn4523 : 9/23/2022 3:41 pm : link
wild is just an indicator. I'll do a little digging from there before approving, doesn't take very long. In 2 cases I caught managers agreeing to drop players to trade back for later to help during bye weeks. This was a long time ago, but an example of why i won't just blindly hit accept.

Haven't had to do this in years and don't suspect I will need to. But there's no harm in taking a look to make sure things are kosher before hitting approve.
I'm the commissioner of my family  
NoGainDayne : 9/23/2022 3:41 pm : link
fantasy football league. My 35 year old sister got my 18 year old cousin (whose playing her 2nd year) to give up Swift for Cousins in a PPR superflex league. Swift went 23 and Cousins 110.

I vetoed it and my sister was so pissed. Got my Dad involved in the campaign with me as a dictator. I had very silent support from certain other parties. In the end my sister dropped her grievance but it was a tough situation all around. If my cousin gave me a better answer than "I don't care about this that much" I might have gone another way as well
I'm commish  
allstarjim : 9/23/2022 4:59 pm : link
In three leagues. I hold veto power for this very reason, that in previous leagues I was in, the league abused veto power (league vote), to keep teams from improving.

I decided I would never participate in a FF league that vetoes traded by league-wide vote ever again.

As commish, I have vetoed 1 trade in over 10 years, and it was when an owner pressed the accept button in error and didn't actually agree to the terms of the trade.

Agree with Robbie and RC on this. Unless it's clear collusion, the trade should go through. And I don't know how many trades that have been allowed where I and the consensus thought one owner was dressed down in the trade only for it to work the other way with the benefit of hindsight.
There are cases to veto  
widmerseyebrow : 9/23/2022 5:13 pm : link
Like I heard about my buddy playing in a keeper league where you can trade future draft picks. He realized that his team was garbage after week one and decided to trade his few star players to a stacked team in exchange for 2023 draft picks. Basically he's selling off assets and throwing in the towel in 2022 to maximize his shot at 2023. As a commissioner I would ban these type of in-season trades because it screws up the competitive balance of the current year. It's not fair to the other teams.
So the rules might not be broken here  
widmerseyebrow : 9/23/2022 5:16 pm : link
but it should be a rule. Draft picks tradeable in the offseason only.

Not to mention how hard it would be to replace a guy who traded all his draft picks away and decided to walk away from the league.
Stupidity doesn’t meet the bar for Veto.  
bradshaw44 : 9/23/2022 6:14 pm : link
Only clear cut intention to enhance another teams roster.
RE: So the rules might not be broken here  
eclipz928 : 9/23/2022 6:26 pm : link
In comment 15828785 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
but it should be a rule. Draft picks tradeable in the offseason only.

Not to mention how hard it would be to replace a guy who traded all his draft picks away and decided to walk away from the league.

This. The most unreasonable trades are going to happen when you allow draft picks to be included - a lot of managers just aren't able to properly evaluate pick selections, or may just be willing to tank a season. It's best to ban them altogether.
The only reason to veto a trade is collusion  
Producer : 9/23/2022 9:30 pm : link
and that has never happened in at least the last 23 years.
RE: There are cases to veto  
allstarjim : 9/23/2022 10:32 pm : link
In comment 15828784 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Like I heard about my buddy playing in a keeper league where you can trade future draft picks. He realized that his team was garbage after week one and decided to trade his few star players to a stacked team in exchange for 2023 draft picks. Basically he's selling off assets and throwing in the towel in 2022 to maximize his shot at 2023. As a commissioner I would ban these type of in-season trades because it screws up the competitive balance of the current year. It's not fair to the other teams.


Strongly disagree. In keeper leagues in season draft pick trades are "the" vehicle for a poor team to improve and reach more parity.

"Not fair to the rest of the league," is complete bullshit. It's a enormous cop-out to exercise an abuse of power.

All teams have an opportunity to make such trades with bottom feeding teams. Because those teams were unwilling to pay the draft pick cost or late to the party, short-sighted, whatever the reason, they have their chance to trade as well.

Off-season trades do little for poor rosters in keeper leagues.

Collusion is unfair. A trade you or your league-mates don't like bc you think it's "unfair" and makes another team "too good?" Fuck that, you should've done more to make a similar trade. As long as both teams feel they are acting in their best interests, you have no business using a veto. And yes, trading short-term competitiveness for long-term assets is often times in the best interest of a team with a poor roster.

If you don't like these types of trades, perhaps you should consider rules changes.

In one league after week 4 we can only trade picks 5th round or later, and after week 6 it''s 7th round or later, until a couple of weeks later until deadline it's round 9 or later picks only.

You can make the trade deadline earlier in season as well.

But in keeper leagues, draft pick swaps are in the best interest of league parity, and lopsided trades in terms of players that include premium draft pick compensation is a fair vehicle for both sides.
No  
widmerseyebrow : 9/24/2022 1:41 am : link
It's not about banning stupidity or opportunism or preventing a super team, its about preventing your league from devolving into an unsustainable futures betting market.

Future draft picks work in the NFL because franchises are guaranteed to be there year in year out. Individual people are not, keeper league or not.

"Oh, you don't like that I acquired the best players from two other teams? I traded my entire draft for 5 years! Fair value!"

Then that guy leaves after pocketing a championship and everything is fucked. Or other people start leaving because they dont want to pony up money to face one or two teams that have a zillion draft picks because they didn't "man up" and sell their team off the year before.

It can get out of hand and exploited pretty quickly without parameters.
Trading next years picks raises questions:  
Kmed6000 : 9/24/2022 9:04 am : link
1. Is this a keeper league? I've never heard of trading future picks in non keeper leagues.

2. The guy trading future picks, is he a long standing member? Is he someone that may quit after the season?

3. Is there a precedent in this league for trading future picks? Has it been discussed or has it happened before?
RE: No  
allstarjim : 9/24/2022 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15829060 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
It's not about banning stupidity or opportunism or preventing a super team, its about preventing your league from devolving into an unsustainable futures betting market.

Future draft picks work in the NFL because franchises are guaranteed to be there year in year out. Individual people are not, keeper league or not.

"Oh, you don't like that I acquired the best players from two other teams? I traded my entire draft for 5 years! Fair value!"

Then that guy leaves after pocketing a championship and everything is fucked. Or other people start leaving because they dont want to pony up money to face one or two teams that have a zillion draft picks because they didn't "man up" and sell their team off the year before.

It can get out of hand and exploited pretty quickly without parameters.


I mean, in my league we don't have this problem. And the only picks you can trade are next year's, not subsequent years

We have a very, very low attrition rate.

You could always cap how many trades involving draft picks there are. You could also cap how many future picks are allowed to be traded, or like I said earlier, put limits on what picks can be traded. But if you remove pick trades in a keeper league, it rewards the top teams and helps them stay on top. I would leave that league pretty quickly, especially if you are using veto power to nix trades where I'm trying to re-hab my team.

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