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Do the Giants Have More Depth Than Expected?

gidiefor : Mod : 9/25/2022 11:02 am
I definitely think coaching has something to do with it - but Bob Brookover says this may be so

Quote:
By Bob Brookover | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Usually when an NFL team compiles a lengthy injury list, it means they are in danger of reaching a breaking point. The Giants, however, have had a different experience through the early stages of the 2022 season.

The injuries started to mount for coach Brian Daboll’s team in training camp and they have kept on coming through the first two regular-season games. Instead of breaking, the Giants have bonded and discovered that their roster just might have more depth than even they originally anticipated.

- more linked below -

Giants have more depth than expected; Leonard Williams’ absence latest test for defense - ( New Window )
Another potential advantage of capable depth  
KeoweeFan : 9/25/2022 11:10 am : link
is less reliance on free agency when losing your stars.
That is a "reinforcing" system because you then have more $ to retain your own stars.
And fewer Kenny Gs.
No....  
Festina Lente : 9/25/2022 11:10 am : link
One of the most unremarkable rosters in the nfl
I suspect that coaching and  
section125 : 9/25/2022 11:12 am : link
scouting the FAs have help immensely. They improved the quality of the backups compared to previous years. But no doubt, good coaching can cover up lack of talent if players are put in the best position to succeed.
I suspect the margins between good and average players is closer than we believe.
we dont know yet but here's a statistical mile marker to consider  
Eric on Li : 9/25/2022 11:25 am : link
from the 7 drafts 2011-2017 the nyg have extended just 2 of their own draft picks, with those being OBJ and Shepard. they extended 3 UDFAs which were Herzlich, Kerry Wynn, and Nick Gates for 5 total "homegrown" players.

on this board there have been various discussions of extending Barkley, McKinney, Love, Lawrence. Ximines may be playing himself into that discussion too. so from just the 2 drafts 18/19 they may double the number of extended homegrown draft picks from the prior 7. and thomas/ojulari/holmes/crowder could continue that trend in 2020.

bottom line is that they are currently getting a lot more production from prior drafts than any time in the last decade - and the new regime has also done a good job generating production from the players they've brought in.

for context only 3 teams extended 20+ players from their 2011-2017 drafts - Dallas, Pitt, LAR. So best in class is 3 extended players per draft. 2018 is likely Barkley or bust but 2019 and 2020 are looking promising and those are the players mentioned above that are the core depth right now.
https://overthecap.com/rookie-class-evaluation - ( New Window )
1 edit above gates is an extension from 2018  
Eric on Li : 9/25/2022 11:27 am : link
so in theory there are 2 players from the 2018 class not 1.
Are the Giants good enough to win Monday ?  
Alamo : 9/25/2022 11:39 am : link
Yes they are...Can they lose..Very possible..Are they the better team..NO !!!!!..
Let's go back many years ago..Team USA hockey,playing the pro players from Russia..We were so badly over matched..Did that matter to any to our college players? HELL NO !!! Thay played like it was going to be their
last day on earth if they lost..They had some great coaching also.
So,are the Giants going to lose?? HELL NO !! Good players and great coaching will win..By the way,the Kowboys coach sucks..He will probably be fired half way into the year..Sean Payton is waiting for this gig big time..
Great!  
Pepe LePugh : 9/25/2022 11:42 am : link
Now if we could just find a few more starters. They may already be on the team. Or not. But this staff does seem to be better at developing and using what’s on the roster.
I think once we are done with this dead money  
eli4life : 9/25/2022 11:48 am : link
And can get some more talent on the roster than the depth (most of which is playing now) will be outstanding
I think it's mostly coaching, especially Martindale  
Vanzetti : 9/25/2022 11:56 am : link
If a guy is good at one thing, Wink has him do that one thing.

He also mixes things up. Every one in the back 8 is a potential blitzer. Who expected Jordan Love to blitz in that situation? Obviously not Carolina.

So I think it is getting the most out of the talent with intelligent play design rather than the talent being a plus.

I also think Giants moved away from guys who were primarily ST players. No more CJ Board. Now the guys who play on specials are mostly on the roster for what they bring to the offense or defense. Again, it's getting the most out of guys .
RE: No....  
CGiants07 : 9/25/2022 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15829783 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
One of the most unremarkable rosters in the nfl

its a better roster than the last 2 years
RE: we dont know yet but here's a statistical mile marker to consider  
christian : 9/25/2022 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15829797 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
from the 7 drafts 2011-2017 the nyg have extended just 2 of their own draft picks, with those being OBJ and Shepard. they extended 3 UDFAs which were Herzlich, Kerry Wynn, and Nick Gates for 5 total "homegrown" players.


That’s an incomplete way of evaluating the data.

The better assessment of the pick and the player is whether they were extended at all in the NFL.

Your line of thinking assumes the Giants made good decisions on who to keep or let go of, and the results in W/L don’t necessarily support that.

From that same period 8 additional players had a PFF wAV of 30+ plus, which at a minimum shows they’ve been every day players: Tomlinson, Flowers, Collins, Richburg, Kennard, Pugh, Hankins, Amukamara.

And just to be crystal clear, I’m not saying the Giants should have kept any of them. Just simply extend/not extend isn’t a very useful measure on its own.
I think the Giants  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/25/2022 12:22 pm : link
have a good amount of talented players which is tilted more on the D side. The last two drafts have been very solid. Keep doing that and we will be in contention most years for the division with solid coaching. Hit on the QB it may get real fun again.

Giants probably were a bottom 3 team in drafting 2011-2017 in what was the great destruction both in talent and physicality. The D is well on its way to restoring it. The OL (IOL) needs work and the WR group redone. Fix that and a rookie QB (that is good) and we are well on the way back imv.
RE: No....  
Jack Stroud : 9/25/2022 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15829783 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
One of the most unremarkable rosters in the NFL
Are you saying this because you compared the Giants roster to every other roster in the NFL?
RE: Are the Giants good enough to win Monday ?  
RobCrossRiver56 : 9/25/2022 5:01 pm : link
In comment 15829804 Alamo said:
Quote:
Yes they are...Can they lose..Very possible..Are they the better team..NO !!!!!..
Let's go back many years ago..Team USA hockey,playing the pro players from Russia..We were so badly over matched..Did that matter to any to our college players? HELL NO !!! Thay played like it was going to be their
last day on earth if they lost..They had some great coaching also.
So,are the Giants going to lose?? HELL NO !! Good players and great coaching will win..By the way,the Kowboys coach sucks..He will probably be fired half way into the year..Sean Payton is waiting for this gig big time..



I love your optimism, but comparing Mondays game to 1980 is a bit of a reach. Yet I still do love the optimism ..
RE: RE: we dont know yet but here's a statistical mile marker to consider  
Eric on Li : 9/25/2022 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15829824 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15829797 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


from the 7 drafts 2011-2017 the nyg have extended just 2 of their own draft picks, with those being OBJ and Shepard. they extended 3 UDFAs which were Herzlich, Kerry Wynn, and Nick Gates for 5 total "homegrown" players.



That’s an incomplete way of evaluating the data.

The better assessment of the pick and the player is whether they were extended at all in the NFL.

Your line of thinking assumes the Giants made good decisions on who to keep or let go of, and the results in W/L don’t necessarily support that.

From that same period 8 additional players had a PFF wAV of 30+ plus, which at a minimum shows they’ve been every day players: Tomlinson, Flowers, Collins, Richburg, Kennard, Pugh, Hankins, Amukamara.

And just to be crystal clear, I’m not saying the Giants should have kept any of them. Just simply extend/not extend isn’t a very useful measure on its own.


try clicking the link and see where they ranked in total players extended (spoiler alert this point which is separate from the one i was making falls apart).

the decision to extend players is based on whether or not they are performing in your uniform before they go elsewhere. "having more depth" is both a function of talent and coaching to get that talent out.
Think it's  
darren in pdx : 9/25/2022 5:23 pm : link
more-so this coaching staff getting the most out of the roster. Still a derth of talent compared to better NFL teams but coaching makes a huge difference. X and others were written off by the fan-base
On defense it’s Wink’s system  
VinegarPeppers : 9/26/2022 11:41 am : link
I think Wink Martindale’s system is more about great athletes than great defensive players. If you’re a great athlete you can rush the passer in a jail break. If you’re a decent DB you can hold out for a few seconds while those great athletes are putting the opposing quarterback under duress.

I also think Belanger is going to become one of the league’s really good tight ends.
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