The simple truth is we are frustrated because he does not play and we do know he has great potential. We have seen it as recently as last week when he made an unbelievable move on the play that was called back.
That is all we KNOW. He has great potential and does not play enough.
As far as I know
We do not know that he does not care enough about the team.
We do not know that he does not prioritize football.
We do not know the extent and affect of his injury(s).
We do not know he has not picked up the offense.
Are you insiders that know these things or simply frustrated fans who are swinging at air?
At some time you move on from players that cannot stay on the field - I don't think we are anywhere near that point, but we don't know what is happening behind the scenes.
A question for those who want to get rid of him.
What would be the least you would take?
A future draft pick - what round?
Would you just release him if we can't make a trade?
If they can get a pick for him, great.
If they can get a pick for him, great.
The Giants would be hit with an $8 million dollar cap hit if they release Toney so that's not an option. The better move would just be to put him on season ending IR.
I think it just might
We need to see one of those guys on the field
Both of them would be even better
He's gotta get healthy. Our WR group doesn't instill fear at all.
That's the frustrating part. I think most of us realize that in 5-10 years Toney will blow all of his NFL earnings trying to build his music career but when he fails and it is too late he will live with the regret of knowing that he blew his chance at a great NFL career and tens of millions of dollars.
I think it just might
We need to see one of those guys on the field
Both of them would be even better
Why would it? His hamstring was supposedly an issue when Wan'Dale was healthy.
The guy doesn't really want to play. It's pretty obvious. He pulled the same crap last year with a plethora of injuries.
He's gotta get healthy. Our WR group doesn't instill fear at all.
What if he is healthy now?
I'm sure the Giants would have already put Toney on IR if they thought that was the best course of action. Trading him is not really an option this year because of the salary cap hit, and we wouldn't get much in return. It's better just to keep him.
I do agree that if he plays very little this year that he might be cut in the offseason. As a first round pick, even from a former regime, he will be given a lot of consideration. But that consideration isn't limitless. My own view is that Jones, Shepard, Slayton, and Golladay will be gone next year. I'm a little less sure now about Barkley and Sills given what they've done in the first two games. Toney might be gone as well, but like Golladay, he's here to stay this year. He's an electrifying player at a position where we are very thin. Let's allow this to play out the rest of the season before making a final decision.
We have more evidence at this point to say that is what he “isn’t”.
What he is at this point is a guy who is taking up cap room and a roster spot.
If I am the giants, I would try to get enough flash on film to get other teams I retested in a trade, but without over using him to the point where he lands on IR
If they can get a pick for him, great.
agreed
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his music is pretty bad and not to quit his day job.
That's the frustrating part. I think most of us realize that in 5-10 years Toney will blow all of his NFL earnings trying to build his music career but when he fails and it is too late he will live with the regret of knowing that he blew his chance at a great NFL career and tens of millions of dollars.
It’s amazing that you can make this type of an assessment on someone you don’t even know.
We need another weapon on O
If Toney is too dumb to realize the opportunity he is wasting to market his brand in the biggest market in the U.S. by playing than it is time to move on
Took a long time to get his career started (I think it was a hammy too). There were plenty here, who were very frustrated with him also.
I agree with Eric, put him on IR for a while, then make an intelligent decision, then.
Hopefully he gets on the field and he plays to his potential. Unless something really bad happens internally I think he at least finishes the year.
Took a long time to get his career started (I think it was a hammy too). There were plenty here, who were very frustrated with him also.
I agree with Eric, put him on IR for a while, then make an intelligent decision, then.
OBJ missed his first 4 games of his ROOKIE year and then dominated from his first game.
Big difference.
Jay, not trying battle here. This is what I mean. I have not seen any verified reports like those you mention. I think it is speculation and people use his injury history to back it up. Lets see what happens when (if lol)he is ready to take the field. ildrt
The problem is he hasn't done jack shit in the NFL yet.
The problem is he hasn't done jack shit in the NFL yet.
Yes, I am sure that is exactly what he is doing...
In comment 15829838 GiantSteps said: Quote:
his music is pretty bad and not to quit his day job. That's the frustrating part. I think most of us realize that in 5-10 years Toney will blow all of his NFL earnings trying to build his music career but when he fails and it is too late he will live with the regret of knowing that he blew his chance at a great NFL career and tens of millions of dollars.
It’s amazing that you can make this type of an assessment on someone you don’t even know.
It's not amazing anymore. It tells you more about the person making the comment than it does about the person he is commenting on.
Not saying Toney is Simms AT ALL. He may indeed be China Doll II. It looks that way at times.
But none of us really KNOW what's going on. He could be soft. Or he could be unlucky -- like Simms. Or he could be nursing a nagging hamstring. All we know is that ON THE FIELD, Toney can be a difference-maker. And if the Giants aren't looking to ditch him, there's probably a good reason, and we should probably have some patience. If he was a total fuck-up, the Giants wouldn't be bothering.
It’s amazing that you can make this type of an assessment on someone you don’t even know.
It's not just speculation but a couple of posters who have proven to have inside information have said the same thing. If you want to pretend that this guy just happens to have a new injury every week then that is your right. If you can't read the signs then I don't know what to tell you. Why is the coaching staff playing David Sills and Richie James significantly more than Toney?
It's not amazing anymore. It tells you more about the person making the comment than it does about the person he is commenting on.
How so? I would love to hear your tone deaf explanation as you just made a comment about someone you don't even know.
Grade: 77
Summary: Senior entry from Mobile, Alabama. One-year starter that was a key part of the offense all four years. 1st Team All SEC in 2020. Toney saved his best for last as a senior. He broke out in a big way and finally translated potential into real production. He did more in 2020 than his three previous seasons combined, partially because of the amount of talent the Gators had ahead of him on depth chart before this past fall. Toney has joystick quickness and change of direction whether he is running routes or carrying the ball. He is the kind of guy that can miss contact in the phone booth and will always fight for more yards. Toney plays bigger and tougher than his frame suggests. It will be hard to find a more competitive spark plug than him. There are concerns around character and durability and he needs a specific role. The right offensive mind can make him a dangerous weapon though, one that can really elevate an offense as a whole.
*There are some teams that have Toney in the top 5 according to one of the very few media resources I trust and speak with. That really surprises me. I won’t give details here but there are a few serious red flags with character, and I just don’t see Toney having a high ceiling. He is as tough as they come, and I love his stop-go quickness. He will make plays with the ball in his hands. But there is a cap to his speed, he doesn’t play very big, and there are a lot of shortcomings I see when it comes to routes/ball skills/awareness etc. Really intrigued to see where he goes.
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I would love to see Toney play up to his potential because he could be a star in this league if he wanted to. The problem is that there are legitimate concerns about his love for football. IMO each week confirms the reports that he loves rap and is using football as a means to become a rapper. To be honest I would prefer to see the Giants try to trade him ASAP in order to recoup some value while he might still have some.
Jay, not trying battle here. This is what I mean. I have not seen any verified reports like those you mention. I think it is speculation and people use his injury history to back it up. Lets see what happens when (if lol)he is ready to take the field. ildrt
You are never going to see "verified reports" that detail this sort of thing. If that's your personal burden of proof and you lack the willingness to read between lines, you have every right to that outlook. IMO, it seems naïve to not recognize what is obvious even without a "verified report" but that's your choice.
Just spare us the fucking sanctimony on a Giants message board.
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He made business decisions at the end of last year as well, wasn’t exactly eager to come back.
If I had to put money on it he won’t be a Giant next year. Talent is irrelevant without the work ethic / mental aptitude to go along with it.
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It's not amazing anymore. It tells you more about the person making the comment than it does about the person he is commenting on.
How so? I would love to hear your tone deaf explanation as you just made a comment about someone you don't even know.
As expected no response.
Definitely look at injury history, if any.
He’s selfish individual who doesn’t care about his teammates. I hope somebody on our team straightens his sorry ass out.
1. He does not want to play and is faking Injuries
2 he simply cannot stay healthy
3. Our training staff sucks balls and cannot deal with a simple hamstring injury
Someone has to go because there is no excuse for missing this many games without a serious Injury like an ACL.
not sure why they kept him. because he showed up? no reasonable offers? no takers at all? cap related? directives from the mara family?
would rather have some hungry UDFA WR taking that roster spot than toney.
Smart- no
Tough-no
Dependable- hell no
Time to move on
So he’s faking it and just fooling all the medical staff and coaches?
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In comment 15829838 GiantSteps said:
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his music is pretty bad and not to quit his day job.
That's the frustrating part. I think most of us realize that in 5-10 years Toney will blow all of his NFL earnings trying to build his music career but when he fails and it is too late he will live with the regret of knowing that he blew his chance at a great NFL career and tens of millions of dollars.
It’s amazing that you can make this type of an assessment on someone you don’t even know.
Statistically it’s very possible. For any NFL player. Fair? Maybe not but the guy obviously seems more interested in his non football aspirations. Wether he never takes another snap or becomes an all pro isn’t they big of deal. But people making that conclusion certainly have some ammunition.
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In comment 15829830 Jay on the Island said:
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I would love to see Toney play up to his potential because he could be a star in this league if he wanted to. The problem is that there are legitimate concerns about his love for football. IMO each week confirms the reports that he loves rap and is using football as a means to become a rapper. To be honest I would prefer to see the Giants try to trade him ASAP in order to recoup some value while he might still have some.
Jay, not trying battle here. This is what I mean. I have not seen any verified reports like those you mention. I think it is speculation and people use his injury history to back it up. Lets see what happens when (if lol)he is ready to take the field. ildrt
You are never going to see "verified reports" that detail this sort of thing. If that's your personal burden of proof and you lack the willingness to read between lines, you have every right to that outlook. IMO, it seems naïve to not recognize what is obvious even without a "verified report" but that's your choice.
Just spare us the fucking sanctimony on a Giants message board.
Mr Dunk,
I have read a bunch of things about Toney - good and bad. I know not everything comes out, and am not naïve. There are spaces between the lines Dunk. I don't read them. I am smart enough to speculate that there might be more behind to a story or quote in some cases. Either you don't really understand the word sanctimony or you have not read my posts. I am not judging anyone -fans or Toney. All I am saying is that it is really frustrating when he doesn't play, but we really do not KNOW a lot. I do not believe he is a lost cause. I am not sure how offended you and your tiny little ...
My premature prediction at the position is that he’s traded for pennies on the dollar after the season and we sign OBJ.
He’s selfish individual who doesn’t care about his teammates. I hope somebody on our team straightens his sorry ass out.
Fair enough view. Practice, Play, Produce and he is 0-3. That said, I am not sure he is a "selfish individual who does not care about his teammates". Time will tell.
I'm sure the Giants would have already put Toney on IR if they thought that was the best course of action. Trading him is not really an option this year because of the salary cap hit, and we wouldn't get much in return. It's better just to keep him.
I do agree that if he plays very little this year that he might be cut in the offseason. As a first round pick, even from a former regime, he will be given a lot of consideration. But that consideration isn't limitless. My own view is that Jones, Shepard, Slayton, and Golladay will be gone next year. I'm a little less sure now about Barkley and Sills given what they've done in the first two games. Toney might be gone as well, but like Golladay, he's here to stay this year. He's an electrifying player at a position where we are very thin. Let's allow this to play out the rest of the season before making a final decision.
Well said.
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Thanks Jay
If you still don't see it now, you're never going to see it.
The DG defenders will die on their swords. I appreciate the loyalty
If you still don't see it now, you're never going to see it.
When someone show you who they are, believe them
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I can't believe some of you guys are *still* doing this.
If you still don't see it now, you're never going to see it.
When someone show you who they are, believe them
Bingo. And Toney has been showing us since the start. He's not long for this team.
Always the possibility that that's wrong and we'll see a talented Toney contributing, but that gets increasingly unlikely.
It worked out for him, eventually (before he self distracted). I see a lot of OBJ in Toney. I hope things work out for him and the team.
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It worked out for him, eventually (before he self distracted). I see a lot of OBJ in Toney. I hope things work out for him and the team.
I don't see Odell in Toney at all. Odell was almost passionate about football to a fault. At some points, he cared *too* much and acted like a dope because of it... the Carolina game, the kicking net, etc.
Odell made gigantic impacts in games early and often in his career. All we're talking about with Toney is what he "could be" because we almost never see it on a football field in games that matter.
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It worked out for him, eventually (before he self distracted). I see a lot of OBJ in Toney. I hope things work out for him and the team.
I don't see Odell in Toney at all. Odell was almost passionate about football to a fault. At some points, he cared *too* much and acted like a dope because of it... the Carolina game, the kicking net, etc.
Odell made gigantic impacts in games early and often in his career. All we're talking about with Toney is what he "could be" because we almost never see it on a football field in games that matter.
Toney is NOTHING like Odell. Odell cared and actually produced. Toney has done neither of those two things. Monumental bust he probably will be cut after this season.
Maybe if he grew his eyebrows back it would help. I mean, WTF!