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The situation surrounding Giants receiver Kenny Golladay could come to a head soon. |
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| The Giants could trade Golladay to an interested party, and likely the only way it would work is if New York pays the bulk of his contract in exchange for a late-round pick. That is a possibility. |
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| As of now, the situation is tenable. If Golladay becomes disgruntled or his relationship with New York becomes more of a problem, the Giants may take action. A release would be a last resort. A trade, however, is possible. Simply, the Giants would eat much of the salary, allowing another team to trade for an effectively low-cost Golladay. |
HOWEVER- if he shows up tonight and plays with some heart, makes some plays and shows up in blocking and his route running then who knows, maybe you just ride this year out.
KT is another story altogether.
We'd be eating a big part of his salary, so his cost is an unknown right now to another team. Plenty of teams need WR help right now and I can see contenders buying a big RZ target on the cheap. Its the type of move good teams make.
Tate
Golladay
Toney
Could.
Could.
For the same reason why New England wanted Moss or Tampa with Brown. I'm certainly not comparing the players, but if a team with a better situation feels that Golladay can still play then what he's done here is kinda irrelevant.
help? how is Golladay going to help them? He hasn't been able to make an impact on a team that desperately needs WR help already
And while you’re at it package Toney in the deal.
That said, not expecting it to be an option unless he starts to behave poorly.
The Giants would likely need to eat some of his 2022 salary, but from a cap perspective this is very plausible.
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would be interested? Arizona needs help badly as well. There are others as well.
help? how is Golladay going to help them? He hasn't been able to make an impact on a team that desperately needs WR help already
I guess he should retire then?
Golladay contract details - ( New Window )
we have the room of whatever his undead cap hit is this year -- but I do think it is a moot point -- until proof is provided otherwise -- another team would have zero reasons to take him on -- he is a very weak WR
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He can't be released. As far as a trade goes, how can the Giants eat most of his salary? We don't have the room. None of this makes any sense.
we have the room of whatever his undead cap hit is this year -- but I do think it is a moot point -- until proof is provided otherwise -- another team would have zero reasons to take him on -- he is a very weak WR
It costs over $4 mil to cut him. To trade him, hiw are we paying most of his salary? How does that work over a multi year period?
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In comment 15830799 robbieballs2003 said:
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He can't be released. As far as a trade goes, how can the Giants eat most of his salary? We don't have the room. None of this makes any sense.
we have the room of whatever his undead cap hit is this year -- but I do think it is a moot point -- until proof is provided otherwise -- another team would have zero reasons to take him on -- he is a very weak WR
It costs over $4 mil to cut him. To trade him, hiw are we paying most of his salary? How does that work over a multi year period?
actually after looking at KMED's chart -- it does look like his dead cap money is greater than his cap hit -- so he is un-trade-able
Rivera was pissed that ESPN choose to "release the story" right before their game.
They are doing the same thing here with this "story".
"Rivera is right here. We also addressed the issue of timing. The original story came out last week, but Adam Schefter pushed the story Sunday morning, which he often does as the eyes of the sports world are on the NFL."
Full story linked...
Link - ( New Window )
On 2022 Golladay has a maximum cap hit of ~$21M. This includes:
- 13M fully guaranteed salary
- 3.4M prorated of his original signing bonus
- 4.5 roster bonus
His roster and signing bonuses are already paid, so has 2/17ths of his salary.
If he's traded, the Giants could pay say 50% of his salary as a restructure bonus.
They would save 6.5M against the 2022 cap.
On 2023, the remainder of his signing bonus would accelerate, at a dead money hit of 10.2M, and the Giants would save a net 3M against the 2023 cap.
My assumption is it is this year's salary, this a sunk cost for us already.
would also be great to replace him with OBJ.
Green Bay would be my guess, for what it's worth.
On 2022 Golladay has a maximum cap hit of ~$21M. This includes:
- 13M fully guaranteed salary
- 3.4M prorated of his original signing bonus
- 4.5 roster bonus
His roster and signing bonuses are already paid, so has 2/17ths of his salary.
If he's traded, the Giants could pay say 50% of his salary as a restructure bonus.
They would save 6.5M against the 2022 cap.
On 2023, the remainder of his signing bonus would accelerate, at a dead money hit of 10.2M, and the Giants would save a net 3M against the 2023 cap.
Thanks for the analysis but I still don't see how it would work from a cap perspective. His salary is 13M. 2/17 (about $1.5M) has already been paid, leaving about $11.5M. Half of that latter number is $5.75M, which still exceeds the $5.1M in cap space the Giants have.
The other problem of course has nothing to do with the cap, namely that he can't even get on the field for a team that has nothing at WR. So why would anyone want him even if the cap doesn't prevent him from being traded?
There's no way in hell anyone is giving up a 4th. With his contract and our situation with him, I don't think a trade is a viable option. A 7th at best imo if a team is interested.
Golladay's roster and signing bonus have been paid. Those are the sunk costs, plus two games of salary checks have been paid (probably 3 actually).
Those are the total sunk costs for 2022.
He is still owed game checks for 14 games checks. The Giants can save that much money on the 2022 cap.
Because it's post June-1, all of the remaining bonus money will hit next year.
Thanks for the analysis but I still don't see how it would work from a cap perspective. His salary is 13M. 2/17 (about $1.5M) has already been paid, leaving about $11.5M. Half of that latter number is $5.75M, which still exceeds the $5.1M in cap space the Giants have.
That 5.1M in cap space the Giants have on paper assumes the Giants will pay his 13M in full this year.
Any amount they pay him below 13M makes that 5.1M go up, not down.
this is not correct. the trading team would be able to cut him free and clear in the future. dead money is only accrued for cash paid to a player and not yet counted on the cap.
as christian said, a trading team could add golladay for very little salary remaining this year with the nyg eating some of the remaining salary they are already on the hook to trade him for.
any dollar saved is actually a dollar less is "dead money" if you consider every remaining dollar owed to KG as dead money. wherever that savings hits doesn't matter because if by circumstances they need that $ this year then it saves them from an alternative move that would kick money to next year or if not it can roll over to next year.
agreed - hopefully they can pump him for 1 game where he looks close to his old self and then find a team desperate enough for him. more likely i expect them to need to attach a conditional pick so it's basically paying to get rid of him.
It adds dead money, but it also frees up cap space.
He also has no guaranteed salary in 23/24. The only guaranteed money is a 4.5M roster bonus.
A team could trade for him and they have options.
If he flames out the only cost to them is whatever the Giant don't eat in salary this year + 4.5M next year.
If he does well, he's on a very reasonable 2/31M for 23/24.
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Thanks for the analysis but I still don't see how it would work from a cap perspective. His salary is 13M. 2/17 (about $1.5M) has already been paid, leaving about $11.5M. Half of that latter number is $5.75M, which still exceeds the $5.1M in cap space the Giants have.
That 5.1M in cap space the Giants have on paper assumes the Giants will pay his 13M in full this year.
Any amount they pay him below 13M makes that 5.1M go up, not down.
OK. I actually wondered that after I wrote my post, namely that his entire $13M salary (and not just 2 or 3/17ths of it) has already been accounted for in the cap. Thanks again.
any dollar saved is actually a dollar less is "dead money" if you consider every remaining dollar owed to KG as dead money.
Exactly. Every game check someone else pays Golladay is better than him riding the pine in NY and the Giants paying him.
any dollar saved is positive. if the money is saved in the present it can still be rolled over into the future - and they would save at least the league minimum and probably more (as christian points out there's a 4.5m salary on the hook for whatever team he's on).
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Cap spaces or picks. Ride it out this year and cut him in the offseason.
any dollar saved is positive. if the money is saved in the present it can still be rolled over into the future - and they would save at least the league minimum and probably more (as christian points out there's a 4.5m salary on the hook for whatever team he's on).
You don't have to explain to me. I get it. I'm simply saying that cutting isn't an option now. And as far as a trade goes, I don't want this to be an Osweiler type trade.
Cutting him in the offseason has the same cap ramifications as trading him today. The only difference being the Giants can save money this year.
The Giants could trade him for a conditional 7th round pick, that gets returned if he takes a snap.
Meaning, they could give him away and save some part of his salary.
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Cap spaces or picks. Ride it out this year and cut him in the offseason.
Cutting him in the offseason has the same cap ramifications as trading him today. The only difference being the Giants can save money this year.
The Giants could trade him for a conditional 7th round pick, that gets returned if he takes a snap.
Meaning, they could give him away and save some part of his salary.
Again, read my last post. You guys are putting words in my mouth.
Next year cut him.
I'm simply saying trading him now (for effectively nothing) has the same cap impact as cutting him in the offseason.
The only difference is the Giants can save a little money this year.
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and a team trading for him isn't paying him 13/14M per year for the next 2 years so they'd have to extend him too which is more risky. I don't see it as possible.
this is not correct. the trading team would be able to cut him free and clear in the future. dead money is only accrued for cash paid to a player and not yet counted on the cap.
as christian said, a trading team could add golladay for very little salary remaining this year with the nyg eating some of the remaining salary they are already on the hook to trade him for.
any dollar saved is actually a dollar less is "dead money" if you consider every remaining dollar owed to KG as dead money. wherever that savings hits doesn't matter because if by circumstances they need that $ this year then it saves them from an alternative move that would kick money to next year or if not it can roll over to next year.
So you're saying someone is going to trade for him only to cut him in the offseason? I understand there won't be a dead cap hit to the new team, but most likely they would convert next years salary to a bonus and extend him for it to make sense.
I'm simply saying trading him now (for effectively nothing) has the same cap impact as cutting him in the offseason.
The only difference is the Giants can save a little money this year.
Yes but I think this report is bullshit just like the one that came out about teams being interested in Slayton. This regime seems to do a better job of using the media to create interest in their WRs but nobody is stupid enough to bite.
Exactly. Unless we were getting something useful in a trade, which we aren't. It doesn't make sense to kick the can down the road at this point. Just wait until the offseason and cut him.
Packers have $8.5 mil in cap space.
Can we throw one good ball to him when we're in the redzone
Can we give him (1) 50/50 ball when he's single covered?
Phil Mcconkey played for the Pack years ago in our SB run and we traded a draft pick to get him back for that SB run. At least there is a history of trading with packers with WR's
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I get what you're saying. There's no upside to cutting Golladay and there's no reason to give up a valuable asset for someone to take him.
I'm simply saying trading him now (for effectively nothing) has the same cap impact as cutting him in the offseason.
The only difference is the Giants can save a little money this year.
Yes but I think this report is bullshit just like the one that came out about teams being interested in Slayton. This regime seems to do a better job of using the media to create interest in their WRs but nobody is stupid enough to bite.
+1.
And Bingo was his name-o.
But if he’s just upset but not a PITA in the locker room like they say, might be better to keep him and forget about trying to find a buyer every day.
No one is trading for Galladay even if he was making the vet min. Forget about it.
Would a team trade for him? Not impossible. A team has to believe that a change of scenery can get him to his 2019 performance level, in which case they get a cheap receiver for the next 2.5 years. I don't believe that. Maybe somebody does.
If the assumption is that he's going to get cut in the off season, and he's a negative (or at best neutral), trading him is smart, even if we have to pay 100% of his remaining salary for this year. At least we'd get something in return. Back tracking from that, if he's off the team, there's the salary of his replacement to consider. So,in order to remain cap neutral for this year, we'd have to pay his remain salary minus the replacement WR cost for this year.
If next year's roster bonus is guaranteed, that is sunk cost, too, so we could pay that, as well, and not incur any additional cap hit.
I'm not advocating paying everything (unless he's really a locker room issue). Just saying a trade is easily doable.
But, as others have said, his issue is his ability to contribute. If he had any ability, he'd be used. So, who would want to trade for him, even if he's free?
DMM, you and JonC make the same or similar point. It seems clear that he is not performing at a high level--his camp (where Aaron Robinson shone when playing him man coverage) and game action such as it's been do look horrid.
Is it likely, is such a steep drop in the quality of his play, a true reflection of his physical (dis)ability? For there to be any legit possibility of a trade, some GM out there has to be able to conclude that the level of drop off in his play must be attributable in some significant part to his lack of desire and investment in playing well--which I suspect must be at issue, at least in part--and that said GM can make a difference in KG's sizing up his landscape as a professional football player.
The issue is KG has to walk into practice every day knowing his teammates are putting out 100% making 70% $$ less than what he is making and it bothers him he can't contribute and yet still has to take their glances and stares at practice each morning with them.
I also warned about this when the hot interest in KG was made known. It was purely a job saving move for DG, he negotiated against himself, and the potential downside was ugly. I heard at the time KG's UFA value was thought to be $10M per, but there were concerns about him. KG and camp just sat there and waited for their number and DG delivered. Boom. Anywho, KG looks set to join the Solder File ...
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In comment 15830843 Kmed6000 said:
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and a team trading for him isn't paying him 13/14M per year for the next 2 years so they'd have to extend him too which is more risky. I don't see it as possible.
this is not correct. the trading team would be able to cut him free and clear in the future. dead money is only accrued for cash paid to a player and not yet counted on the cap.
as christian said, a trading team could add golladay for very little salary remaining this year with the nyg eating some of the remaining salary they are already on the hook to trade him for.
any dollar saved is actually a dollar less is "dead money" if you consider every remaining dollar owed to KG as dead money. wherever that savings hits doesn't matter because if by circumstances they need that $ this year then it saves them from an alternative move that would kick money to next year or if not it can roll over to next year.
So you're saying someone is going to trade for him only to cut him in the offseason? I understand there won't be a dead cap hit to the new team, but most likely they would convert next years salary to a bonus and extend him for it to make sense.
any team trading for him likely views him as a rental lotto ticket against 4.5m dead money on their cap next year. his salary next year for them would effectively be 1 year 13.5m with 4.5m guaranteed with a 4.5m roster bonus due on the 3rd day of the league year that any team is unlikely to pay out even if he plays reasonably well.
he'd have to fully revert back to his detroit level performance to get himself into any kind of extension discussion.
any team looking for a WR right now is likely first kicking tires on the cole beasley/objs of the world who won't cost $ against next year. those guys will probably have choices and choose to go to better situations (as beasley did).
we need to hope there's a desperate team out there who needs a WR bad enough they are willing to roll the dice on golladay. like i said above i'd expect to need to throw in a conditional pick for them to do it (probably a 6th or 7th to the team trading for him if they cut him as expected and eat the 4.5m in dead money next year). maybe the nyg can get a fringe back roster player they like in return or swap a contract the other team is looking to move.
The only way someone trades us anything for him is he steps up his game big time, renegotiates to a more team friendly contract or Dave Gettleman gets hired as a GM for another team.
i think we are going to see 5-10 targets to kenny tonight and he's been told punching his ticket elsewhere is in his hands. if plays well the team will facilitate a deal if that's what he wants.
A team who is trading for him would only be on the hook for:
- However much salary the Giants don't eat in 2022
- 4.5M cap hit in 2023 by way of his roster bonus
The Giants could even eat nearly all his 2022 salary, and it would still be a net positive. If they cut him this offseason they eat the 4.5M roster bonus next year.
A team like the Bucs could have him for virtually free in 2022, and the only cost would be 4.5M next year.
The most likely answer is that this is mere speculation from Rapoport and not connected to any leak from the Giants. In fact, mere speculation from the xxx or so & so is probably the answer 80 to 90 percent of the time in sports journalism
A team who is trading for him would only be on the hook for:
- However much salary the Giants don't eat in 2022
- 4.5M cap hit in 2023 by way of his roster bonus
The Giants could even eat nearly all his 2022 salary, and it would still be a net positive. If they cut him this offseason they eat the 4.5M roster bonus next year.
A team like the Bucs could have him for virtually free in 2022, and the only cost would be 4.5M next year.
the bucs and cards seem like 2 teams who may be desperate enough and dealing with a bunch of wr injuries. a team like houston may figure 'why not' if they can get a draft pick out of it. maybe the raiders or pats. or bears.
have to hope someone from his lions days is at one of those teams and willing to push for it. a nice pop game on national tv tonight like his saints game last year would be a big help.
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remember when 2 teams "inquired about trading for slayton" around cut down day?
The most likely answer is that this is mere speculation from Rapoport and not connected to any leak from the Giants. In fact, mere speculation from the xxx or so & so is probably the answer 80 to 90 percent of the time in sports journalism
if it were one of the local hacks yes, i dont think rapaport is in the business of mischaracterizing speculation since he gets access to more real info than anyone. i suppose there's a reason this report went to a national writer with a wide following.
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In comment 15831022 Eric on Li said:
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remember when 2 teams "inquired about trading for slayton" around cut down day?
The most likely answer is that this is mere speculation from Rapoport and not connected to any leak from the Giants. In fact, mere speculation from the xxx or so & so is probably the answer 80 to 90 percent of the time in sports journalism
if it were one of the local hacks yes, i dont think rapaport is in the business of mischaracterizing speculation since he gets access to more real info than anyone. i suppose there's a reason this report went to a national writer with a wide following.
Yes, Golladay's agent is why.
Not only that. They’re going to owe him an additional 4.5M if they cut him vs. trading him now.
The Giants could trade him for a ghost draft pick, and eat basically all his salary this year, and still come out ahead.
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Wouldn't at all surprise me if Aaron Rodgers thought he could get Golladay back to his Detroit days.
Worst contract ever.
And we laughed at Snyder and the Albert Haynesworth fiasco.
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Was Schoen supposed to hold a gun to someone’s head to trade for Golladay? How do you know he didn’t shop him? In fact, I’d be willing to bet he absolutely did shop him
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Wouldn't you expect more from an ultra-talented QB than a career 74-90-1 record with Detroit? You mean with all that ulrta-talent he couldn't get Detroit over the top?
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was one of Schoen's mistakes in the offseason. The time to move him was right after June 1st. And the camp reports verified almost all of the suspicions about KG that were discussed during last season and the off-season.
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Wouldn't you expect more from an ultra-talented QB than a career 74-90-1 record with Detroit? You mean with all that ulrta-talent he couldn't get Detroit over the top?
Speaking of the Lions, they're looking like a better team this year. And they've got an ace in the hole with Jameson Williams.
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Absolutely nothing Schoen could have done. The contract prevented releasing him ($4m cap hit) or trading him (because no one wants him at any price) just like now.
Next year cut him.
This. Change the locks too.
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was one of Schoen's mistakes in the offseason. The time to move him was right after June 1st. And the camp reports verified almost all of the suspicions about KG that were discussed during last season and the off-season.
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Wouldn't you expect more from an ultra-talented QB than a career 74-90-1 record with Detroit? You mean with all that ulrta-talent he couldn't get Detroit over the top?
All the talent in the world isn't going to overcome coaching and organizational dysfunction. How many years have the Lions been what the Giants have been for the last 5?
i think we are going to see 5-10 targets to kenny tonight and he's been told punching his ticket elsewhere is in his hands. if plays well the team will facilitate a deal if that's what he wants.
Cool story
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In comment 15831092 bw in dc said:
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was one of Schoen's mistakes in the offseason. The time to move him was right after June 1st. And the camp reports verified almost all of the suspicions about KG that were discussed during last season and the off-season.
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Wouldn't you expect more from an ultra-talented QB than a career 74-90-1 record with Detroit? You mean with all that ulrta-talent he couldn't get Detroit over the top?
All the talent in the world isn't going to overcome coaching and organizational dysfunction. How many years have the Lions been what the Giants have been for the last 5?
Exactly. That post was meant for those advocating mortgaging the future for a Russell Wilson type acquisition when the roster cupboards are bare.
I don't care what the issue is - injury or attitude. KG is just a poor fit. It was an attempt to get Jones a WR 1 without realizing it was a sqaure peg-into-a-round-hole situation. KG was just a better fit in Detroit with a fearless, ultra-talented QB throwing to him.
Daboll playing him two snaps is an indictment on Galloday and his inability or his undisclosed injury. Jones and Kenny did good balling last year despite KG despising the offensive scheme. Catch rate and yards were on par with his career averages.
I do agree it's a mistake Schoen made assuming it would all be fine and Kenny would buy in right away. Toney is another. Two disappointing characters who should be key players but for onereason or another, neither one is contributing.
This is the exact response we should all have. Just like Bradberry its not going to happen. If it gets ugly they have to cut him and then a team can pick him up. This isn't even news.
KG looks like Laquon Treadwell or late stage Dez out there. He’s literally unusable in any offense outside the redzone. He’s literally screwing up the timing of plays.
Gettleman takes KG, (someone else's broken player), gives him the mortgage to the farm, and expects a miracle.
I don't get it, that old man was an experienced hand.
Old age doesn't necessarily mean you lose your edge (look at 90 year old Gil Brandt), he's still as sharp as a tack; Dave just lost it, quick.
If a blithering idiot offered you $72M, $40M of which was guaranteed, would you turn it down?
What'll really blow your mind is this: Jones really wanted him and is part of the reason they went after him.