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What QB in the league was winning last night

kelly : 9/27/2022 7:37 am
Behind the giant offensive line and throwing to our wide receivers?

Answer-no one

Jones may not be the solution but he clearly is not the problem.
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Daniel definitely displayed his toughness last night,  
Section331 : 9/27/2022 9:23 am : link
he took a beating, but kept at it. And he was let down by his WR's, key drops by Shep and Golladay, and Sills falling down on the game-ending INT. That said, he also displayed his warts too. A couple of the sacks were on him for holding onto the ball too long; on 2 of the sacks, he didn't identify an unblocked blitzer at the LOS; and he showed his glaring lack of pocket awareness. On one sack in the 4th Q, Breida moved over to block a pass rusher, and Jones, rather than stepping up into the pocket, ran right into the rusher.

I think everyone agrees that he has been dealt a bad hand in his tenure here, but he has done little to show that he would be an upper-tier starter with a good cast around him.
...  
christian : 9/27/2022 9:23 am : link
The walls are literally falling in on the Giants offense.

The template is going to be load up the pass rush on Neal's side, which either takes a RB or TE out of the play.

With Shepard out, one of the WRs in the dog house or a practice squad player will start at WR, which I don't expect to be pretty.

I don't see 9-8, because I think the ceiling on the offense isn't there. I'd guess closer 6-7 wins.
RE: Whether Jones is THE problem  
TJ : 9/27/2022 9:25 am : link
In comment 15834310 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
Depends on what question you're asking.
If you want to have a great team, Jones is a huge problem. Having Jones as your QB makes it nearly impossible to have that kind of team.

If replacing Jones would have, at any time in his career, changed this team from a joke to a great team I would be first in line to see him go. But that has never been the case.

I'll settle for a competent team that belongs in the NFL first and worry about great later. So yeah maybe jones needs to go in order for the team to win a superbowl. Maybe. But I'm not going to obsess over him when this team still has so many bigger problems.
RE: ...  
Sean : 9/27/2022 9:26 am : link
In comment 15834332 christian said:
Quote:
The walls are literally falling in on the Giants offense.

The template is going to be load up the pass rush on Neal's side, which either takes a RB or TE out of the play.

With Shepard out, one of the WRs in the dog house or a practice squad player will start at WR, which I don't expect to be pretty.

I don't see 9-8, because I think the ceiling on the offense isn't there. I'd guess closer 6-7 wins.

Exactly. And they’ll move on. As Gatorade Dunk mentioned, a team with a rebuilding WR group and an OL still in progress is not going to double down on a veteran QB not drafted by that regime. They’ll opt for the cheaper, rookie QB. Life in the NFL isn’t always fair, plus all the wear and tear on Jones after the season.

There seems to be a conspiracy on BBI still that Mara is going to come in and demand Jones stays. No action has supported that thus far. None.
Even the best quarterbacks look very  
kelly : 9/27/2022 9:30 am : link
Mediocre at best behind a terrible offensive line. Throw in terrible receivers and no quarterback would look good.

Jones did as well as any quarterback in the league would have done given the situation.

Before we draft another quarterback can fix the f-ing line! And get some receivers.

Otherwise we will be back here arguing over whether our new quarterback is any good as he gets pummeled by opposing defences.
I think the far more interesting decision is Saquon  
Sean : 9/27/2022 9:30 am : link
He will want an extension if he continues this pace.
RE: Daniel definitely displayed his toughness last night,  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 9:31 am : link
In comment 15834331 Section331 said:
Quote:
he took a beating, but kept at it. And he was let down by his WR's, key drops by Shep and Golladay, and Sills falling down on the game-ending INT. That said, he also displayed his warts too. A couple of the sacks were on him for holding onto the ball too long; on 2 of the sacks, he didn't identify an unblocked blitzer at the LOS; and he showed his glaring lack of pocket awareness. On one sack in the 4th Q, Breida moved over to block a pass rusher, and Jones, rather than stepping up into the pocket, ran right into the rusher.

I think everyone agrees that he has been dealt a bad hand in his tenure here, but he has done little to show that he would be an upper-tier starter with a good cast around him.


+1
RE: Personally I thought Jones played like a 5-10 QB in this league  
Producer : 9/27/2022 9:34 am : link
In comment 15834317 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
last night. I absolutely do not think a Cousins or Tannehill would be able to evade the rush and hit the passes last night that Jones did, so if you think they are ~#15ish then Jones was better. To me he looked a lot like a Burrows or Wilson, the way he evaded the rush, used his legs to get first downs, and make passes down the field.

I will bet Daboll grades him out very high, as will the rest of the league


Dude you have to take those Big Blue colored glasses off. Nothing he did last night puts him in the Burrow/Wilson category. In that category you have to throw 35 TDs to 12 INTs and score points. Last night Jones threw zero TDs. Running around frantically evading the rush, not throwing many consequential passes, and scoring 16 points, doesn't do it.
RE: I think the far more interesting decision is Saquon  
Greg from LI : 9/27/2022 9:34 am : link
In comment 15834360 Sean said:
Quote:
He will want an extension if he continues this pace.


I agree. I have never been a big fan of his in the past, but he is making me a believer this year. He's changed how he runs, for the better - cut out the dancing and slash upfield. I've loved what I've seen from him this year.

Still, the rub is what kind of contract would you be willing to give a guy with his injury history.
RE: Even the best quarterbacks look very  
Greg from LI : 9/27/2022 9:36 am : link
In comment 15834358 kelly said:
Quote:
Jones did as well as any quarterback in the league would have done given the situation.


Sure he did, sure *pats head*
RE: Even the best quarterbacks look very  
Producer : 9/27/2022 9:36 am : link
In comment 15834358 kelly said:
Quote:
Mediocre at best behind a terrible offensive line. Throw in terrible receivers and no quarterback would look good.

Jones did as well as any quarterback in the league would have done given the situation.

Before we draft another quarterback can fix the f-ing line! And get some receivers.

Otherwise we will be back here arguing over whether our new quarterback is any good as he gets pummeled by opposing defences.


No, Daniel Jones didn't do as well as any QB would do. Elite talents would likely do much better. Jones is a bottom tier talent in this league.
RE: I think the far more interesting decision is Saquon  
Producer : 9/27/2022 9:38 am : link
In comment 15834360 Sean said:
Quote:
He will want an extension if he continues this pace.


You don't pay a RB big money, especially if you suck.
RE: RE: I think the far more interesting decision is Saquon  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 9:41 am : link
In comment 15834377 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15834360 Sean said:


Quote:


He will want an extension if he continues this pace.



I agree. I have never been a big fan of his in the past, but he is making me a believer this year. He's changed how he runs, for the better - cut out the dancing and slash upfield. I've loved what I've seen from him this year.

Still, the rub is what kind of contract would you be willing to give a guy with his injury history.


I'd give him a decent 2 or 3 year deal - it's not like we are going to be paying for a franchise QB anytime soon.
I just want to make sure I have this right  
djm : 9/27/2022 9:41 am : link
Add 2 more OLs that can block and add 2 more pass catchers that can....get open and catch. You're telling me THIS offense can't be top 10? It can't be "good" with Jones under center?

I need to know why that can't happen. Not just platitudes either.

Worst WRs in the game. ONe of the worst OLs in terms of pass blocking in the game. The QB accounted for nearly all of the offense both in the air and on the ground and on the biggest play of the game his shit show WR fell down. And when Jones made one of the best plays all season his other shit show WR got flagged for a questionable flag.

I think Jones played extremely well last night. Lamar Jackson might play better. That's about it and last i checked Jackson has about 4 better pass catchers and a better OL than Jones.


I don't know wtf some of you are watching but it's not 2020 anymore.
RE: RE: Personally I thought Jones played like a 5-10 QB in this league  
PatersonPlank : 9/27/2022 9:42 am : link
In comment 15834376 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15834317 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


last night. I absolutely do not think a Cousins or Tannehill would be able to evade the rush and hit the passes last night that Jones did, so if you think they are ~#15ish then Jones was better. To me he looked a lot like a Burrows or Wilson, the way he evaded the rush, used his legs to get first downs, and make passes down the field.

I will bet Daboll grades him out very high, as will the rest of the league



Dude you have to take those Big Blue colored glasses off. Nothing he did last night puts him in the Burrow/Wilson category. In that category you have to throw 35 TDs to 12 INTs and score points. Last night Jones threw zero TDs. Running around frantically evading the rush, not throwing many consequential passes, and scoring 16 points, doesn't do it.


I knew referencing other QB names is like moths to a light here. All I was meaning to say was Jones played very well, and in this one game reminded me how I see Burrow usually playing. I did not say he is as good, and of course go right ahead and throw season stats at me to change the subject. I think that Jones played very well last night, and if this was any other teams QB you all would be saying the same. However the built-up dislike for some on Jones doesn't allow you to say that. I also think he's done good this season, we will see how the rest of the season plays out.
only 3 games  
djm : 9/27/2022 9:42 am : link
need to see more. But some of you are so fucking stubborn.
through 3 games Here is what Jones is better at:  
djm : 9/27/2022 9:45 am : link
-He's a better scrambler. Like a LOT better.

-He's better at protecting the ball.

-He's better at avoiding the rush and turning nothing into something (not the same as point 1)

Try and watch the guy without the voice of big bad DG in your head. HE's gone. Try and be fair and watch the guy with an objective POV. No one cares if your stupid DJ hot takes from the last few years prove to be wrong.
Not good enough  
Thegratefulhead : 9/27/2022 9:49 am : link
We have to agree to disagree here. It is a little disconcerting though. I did not watch a good QB. I watched a guy. I can'be mad because you see something else. Blue glasses.

If we won that game and Jones looked just OK, I still would have given him a lot of credit. He lost a game that would have changed the course of the season. It matters. I want better
A bunch of QB's are probably winning that game last night.  
Kmed6000 : 9/27/2022 9:54 am : link
Yes he was pressure a lot, but he holds onto the ball so much and has terrible pocket presence. Good QB's feel the rush and move to open spots and then continue to look downfield, Jones never does that. He's just looking downfield and has no idea where the rush is.

Tons of guys get pressured, but they are able to feel it and move and find someone.
RE: Daniel definitely displayed his toughness last night,  
Scooter185 : 9/27/2022 9:57 am : link
In comment 15834331 Section331 said:
Quote:
he took a beating, but kept at it. And he was let down by his WR's, key drops by Shep and Golladay, and Sills falling down on the game-ending INT. That said, he also displayed his warts too. A couple of the sacks were on him for holding onto the ball too long; on 2 of the sacks, he didn't identify an unblocked blitzer at the LOS; and he showed his glaring lack of pocket awareness. On one sack in the 4th Q, Breida moved over to block a pass rusher, and Jones, rather than stepping up into the pocket, ran right into the rusher.

I think everyone agrees that he has been dealt a bad hand in his tenure here, but he has done little to show that he would be an upper-tier starter with a good cast around him.


+2
RE: A bunch of QB's are probably winning that game last night.  
PatersonPlank : 9/27/2022 9:58 am : link
In comment 15834448 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
Yes he was pressure a lot, but he holds onto the ball so much and has terrible pocket presence. Good QB's feel the rush and move to open spots and then continue to look downfield, Jones never does that. He's just looking downfield and has no idea where the rush is.

Tons of guys get pressured, but they are able to feel it and move and find someone.


He was doing an excellent job buying time, trying to wait until he crappy WR's could get open. You seem to think that every pass needs to get out quick, yet when he does that I bet people would say that he just checks down. What he did last night is exactly what he should have, and what guys like Cousins can not do, buy time with his legs and also get first downs with his legs.
Wonder how many fans take last night as a win  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/27/2022 10:00 am : link
Just because Jones played well in a loss.
RE: Personally I thought Jones played like a 5-10 QB in this league  
HomerJones45 : 9/27/2022 10:01 am : link
In comment 15834317 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
last night. I absolutely do not think a Cousins or Tannehill would be able to evade the rush and hit the passes last night that Jones did, so if you think they are ~#15ish then Jones was better. To me he looked a lot like a Burrows or Wilson, the way he evaded the rush, used his legs to get first downs, and make passes down the field.

I will bet Daboll grades him out very high, as will the rest of the league
Neither is as limited on the types of routes they can throw or their ability to quickly read defenses and know where to go with the ball. Yeah, his good points- straight line speed, toughness were on display but so were his limitations- inability to throw some routes, not reading the defenses quickly, etc.

Nice kid, hard worker. Limited player and overdrafted. Will be a good back up- transition qb somewhere. Move on.
RE: A bunch of QB's are probably winning that game last night.  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:01 am : link
In comment 15834448 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
Yes he was pressure a lot, but he holds onto the ball so much and has terrible pocket presence. Good QB's feel the rush and move to open spots and then continue to look downfield, Jones never does that. He's just looking downfield and has no idea where the rush is.

Tons of guys get pressured, but they are able to feel it and move and find someone.


I have a hard time agreeing but fine, yes a lot of QBs beat pressure--but dude we have Crosby Stills and Nash at WR!

The 1986 NYG WRs at week 8 were better than this slop. Remember how bad Simms looked halfway through that season? Simms gets his fucking block knocked off last night and he's a legendary NYG figure.

Jones was good last night. He did his part to lead the team to 20+ points but a blocked FG and brutal penalty took pts off the board. I am not saying he's great or he's the long term answer, but how the fuck can anyone come to a conclusion that he's not the answer, based on last night? Yea That's horse shit.
RE: RE: The problem has not been  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/27/2022 10:01 am : link
In comment 15834298 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15834285 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


QB despite some posters stupidly putting it on that position for a decade. JS/BD need to recognize this is the NFCE not the AFCE. This division is about physicality. It is why they have all those SB's.



How do you define physicality? You use that word in nearly every post.


It means you beat the man across from you on the lines. Running backs who make defenders pay either when running or pass blocking. WR/TE's who can get off the line and into their route. Who can run block. Front seven and particularly front four personal who can stop the run and impact the passer. OL who move defenders backwards and can pass block.

Yes I use it a lot. Because it is what this franchise has been missing for a decade. I am not expecting you to understand this basic concept of football by most of your previous posts. After all you wanted Eli/TC gone in '12/'13.

Hes going to have some decent games  
Jerry in_DC : 9/27/2022 10:03 am : link
Jones is a real NFL player. He's not a guy that we pulled out of the stands. He's a high end backup QB. Guys like that can play. They're just nowhere near good enough for a team to consistently win
RE: Even the best quarterbacks look very  
Mike from Ohio : 9/27/2022 10:04 am : link
In comment 15834358 kelly said:
Quote:

Jones did as well as any quarterback in the league would have done given the situation.

Before we draft another quarterback can fix the f-ing line! And get some receivers.



Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomess and Aaron Rodgers could have done no better than Daniel Jones? You can't be serious in this evaluation. If you can't see the massive - absolutely massive - disparity in talent in the elite QBs in this league and Daniel Jones, you don't understand what you are watching.

And when is the Oline declared "fixed" so that you can draft a QB? How many teams in this league do you think would say "Our line is awesome. Any QB could play behind this group!" Maybe 3? Good QBs can win with poor lines. Cincinnati went to the Superbowl last year with one of the worst in the league.
RE: Not good enough  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:05 am : link
In comment 15834437 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
We have to agree to disagree here. It is a little disconcerting though. I did not watch a good QB. I watched a guy. I can'be mad because you see something else. Blue glasses.

If we won that game and Jones looked just OK, I still would have given him a lot of credit. He lost a game that would have changed the course of the season. It matters. I want better


You want better? How about we field a professional collection, shit ONE WR. We don't have any.

There were 4 guys on offense last night that are actual professional NFL players. Jones was one of them. The rest will be off this team save for Neal, who looked so bad I don't even want to talk about him because I am scared that's he's just another bust RT here. But it's early for him.

3-4 pro players on offense. Barkley, Thomas, Jones and Maybe Glowinski. The rest are done here by 2023 save for Neal and maybe the kid at guard if he even played. Maybe the rookie TE too.
RE: RE: A bunch of QB's are probably winning that game last night.  
Kmed6000 : 9/27/2022 10:05 am : link
In comment 15834470 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15834448 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


Yes he was pressure a lot, but he holds onto the ball so much and has terrible pocket presence. Good QB's feel the rush and move to open spots and then continue to look downfield, Jones never does that. He's just looking downfield and has no idea where the rush is.

Tons of guys get pressured, but they are able to feel it and move and find someone.



I have a hard time agreeing but fine, yes a lot of QBs beat pressure--but dude we have Crosby Stills and Nash at WR!

The 1986 NYG WRs at week 8 were better than this slop. Remember how bad Simms looked halfway through that season? Simms gets his fucking block knocked off last night and he's a legendary NYG figure.

Jones was good last night. He did his part to lead the team to 20+ points but a blocked FG and brutal penalty took pts off the board. I am not saying he's great or he's the long term answer, but how the fuck can anyone come to a conclusion that he's not the answer, based on last night? Yea That's horse shit.


We lost a 1 score game and 1 TD could have changed the game. We didn't need someone to be a lot better than Jones was, but plenty of QB's would have done a little more. He made some really good throws that the WR's dropped, but he could have been better too.

Why are we the only team that can't move the ball in the 2 minute drill? Our first half 2 minute drill was embarrassing. Between the 2 minute and our red zone passing offense, it's gotta be one of the worst in the league. A big part of that has to fall on Jones.
RE: Wonder how many fans take last night as a win  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:06 am : link
In comment 15834466 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Just because Jones played well in a loss.


YEa, probably not a single one. Nice reach there.
djm.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/27/2022 10:06 am : link
Are Crosby Stills & Nash available? We could use em at WR.
RE: through 3 games Here is what Jones is better at:  
Section331 : 9/27/2022 10:06 am : link
In comment 15834415 djm said:
Quote:
-He's a better scrambler. Like a LOT better.

-He's better at protecting the ball.

-He's better at avoiding the rush and turning nothing into something (not the same as point 1)

Try and watch the guy without the voice of big bad DG in your head. HE's gone. Try and be fair and watch the guy with an objective POV. No one cares if your stupid DJ hot takes from the last few years prove to be wrong.


I'm going to disagree with point 3, his pocket awareness continues to be a big problem. Rather than stepping up into the pocket, he runs out of it and into pressure. He also failed to recognize unblocked pass rushers twice that led to sacks. He's the QB, that is his responsibility.

He is tough, he is dealing with awful pass pro and a bad WR corps, but he has done little to show that he would be successful even with a better supporting cast. If he was still on a rookie deal next year, sure, then maybe you bring him back, but now it's at what cost?
I don't care if Jones is gone next year  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:10 am : link
I just want to win. THat said, I can't go with any take that singles out Jones, in a negative light after last night's loss. HE was one of the reasons why we were in the game. This is a hill I will die on, gladly.

Maybe Jones missed some plays or dropped his eyes too soon, sure I can allow that take, but how many plays did he save? How many good throws did he make when many others don't? PLenty. And again, one of the biggest plays of the game by Jones was wiped out due to penalty. That matters.

ONce again the QB has next to NO margin for error, loses a close game and the loss was SQUARELY on the D's inability to get off the field second half and the WRs inability to get open and make a play.

We don't have a single WR that can get open on a consistent basis let alone break a tackle and make a big play. NOt. ONE.
RE: RE: RE: A bunch of QB's are probably winning that game last night.  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:13 am : link
In comment 15834484 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15834470 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15834448 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


Yes he was pressure a lot, but he holds onto the ball so much and has terrible pocket presence. Good QB's feel the rush and move to open spots and then continue to look downfield, Jones never does that. He's just looking downfield and has no idea where the rush is.

Tons of guys get pressured, but they are able to feel it and move and find someone.



I have a hard time agreeing but fine, yes a lot of QBs beat pressure--but dude we have Crosby Stills and Nash at WR!

The 1986 NYG WRs at week 8 were better than this slop. Remember how bad Simms looked halfway through that season? Simms gets his fucking block knocked off last night and he's a legendary NYG figure.

Jones was good last night. He did his part to lead the team to 20+ points but a blocked FG and brutal penalty took pts off the board. I am not saying he's great or he's the long term answer, but how the fuck can anyone come to a conclusion that he's not the answer, based on last night? Yea That's horse shit.



We lost a 1 score game and 1 TD could have changed the game. We didn't need someone to be a lot better than Jones was, but plenty of QB's would have done a little more. He made some really good throws that the WR's dropped, but he could have been better too.

Why are we the only team that can't move the ball in the 2 minute drill? Our first half 2 minute drill was embarrassing. Between the 2 minute and our red zone passing offense, it's gotta be one of the worst in the league. A big part of that has to fall on Jones.


Did you see the WRs fall down? Dude, we don't have NFL caliber WRs. NOT ONE. At some point talent does play a factor here. I paused and replayed so many plays last night I lost count, I saw time and time again NO WRS open at all.


Wait for SY's take. You can all tip your hat then. Revisit my posts then. Please.
RE: RE: through 3 games Here is what Jones is better at:  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:16 am : link
In comment 15834491 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15834415 djm said:


Quote:


-He's a better scrambler. Like a LOT better.

-He's better at protecting the ball.

-He's better at avoiding the rush and turning nothing into something (not the same as point 1)

Try and watch the guy without the voice of big bad DG in your head. HE's gone. Try and be fair and watch the guy with an objective POV. No one cares if your stupid DJ hot takes from the last few years prove to be wrong.



I'm going to disagree with point 3, his pocket awareness continues to be a big problem. Rather than stepping up into the pocket, he runs out of it and into pressure. He also failed to recognize unblocked pass rushers twice that led to sacks. He's the QB, that is his responsibility.

He is tough, he is dealing with awful pass pro and a bad WR corps, but he has done little to show that he would be successful even with a better supporting cast. If he was still on a rookie deal next year, sure, then maybe you bring him back, but now it's at what cost?


I am not saying I am bringing him back either. But last night sure as fuck didn't convince me not to. It didn't convince me of anything. I have to laugh at anyone who says otherwise.

Also, unblocked pass-rushers typically leads to a sack or busted unsuccessful play probably more than 50% of the time. How many times did Jones make a decent play when that happened? I'd say more than 50% of the time if I had to bet.
and look if Sy says  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:17 am : link
Jones left meat on the bone time and time again I will gladly accept it and move on. I can't see the whole field like some of the scouts with their all-22 can. But what I saw? It was a shit show last night.

I will wait for SY but so far this year he has said exactly what I saw and observed.
that's it I am done  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:18 am : link
let's win next week
RE: RE: Even the best quarterbacks look very  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/27/2022 10:18 am : link
In comment 15834482 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15834358 kelly said:


Quote:



Jones did as well as any quarterback in the league would have done given the situation.

Before we draft another quarterback can fix the f-ing line! And get some receivers.





Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomess and Aaron Rodgers could have done no better than Daniel Jones? You can't be serious in this evaluation. If you can't see the massive - absolutely massive - disparity in talent in the elite QBs in this league and Daniel Jones, you don't understand what you are watching.

And when is the Oline declared "fixed" so that you can draft a QB? How many teams in this league do you think would say "Our line is awesome. Any QB could play behind this group!" Maybe 3? Good QBs can win with poor lines. Cincinnati went to the Superbowl last year with one of the worst in the league.


Compare Cincy's WR's to the Giants. Conversation end right there as well as credibility to your post imv.

Not even a big Jones fan but not sure why you can't acknowledge what is around Jones is not very good.

You see a Diggs on the outside? Chase?

RE: through 3 games Here is what Jones is better at:  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 10:23 am : link
In comment 15834415 djm said:
Quote:
-He's a better scrambler. Like a LOT better.

-He's better at protecting the ball.

-He's better at avoiding the rush and turning nothing into something (not the same as point 1)

Try and watch the guy without the voice of big bad DG in your head. HE's gone. Try and be fair and watch the guy with an objective POV. No one cares if your stupid DJ hot takes from the last few years prove to be wrong.


Yes, he is absolutely better at those things.

Unfortunately, he is not better at:

1- Pocket presence (when to step up, when to throw)
2- Processing speed
3- Reading post-snap defenses

He would make a fantastic backup QB - probably the best backup in the league. He is not someone you pay franchise QB money.
RE: RE: through 3 games Here is what Jones is better at:  
djm : 9/27/2022 10:27 am : link
In comment 15834537 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15834415 djm said:


Quote:


-He's a better scrambler. Like a LOT better.

-He's better at protecting the ball.

-He's better at avoiding the rush and turning nothing into something (not the same as point 1)

Try and watch the guy without the voice of big bad DG in your head. HE's gone. Try and be fair and watch the guy with an objective POV. No one cares if your stupid DJ hot takes from the last few years prove to be wrong.



Yes, he is absolutely better at those things.

Unfortunately, he is not better at:

1- Pocket presence (when to step up, when to throw)
2- Processing speed
3- Reading post-snap defenses

He would make a fantastic backup QB - probably the best backup in the league. He is not someone you pay franchise QB money.


Fair enough, but fans never want to pay decent QBs because they always think the rookie to be will be better. Not always that simple.

Let it play out. Through 3 games I see a better player in Jones. HE's playing the best ball of his career but yes, he needs to be better. I still say this offense will make anyone look bad even with BArkley and the improved gameplans.
RE: The problem has not been  
family progtitioner : 9/27/2022 10:29 am : link
In comment 15834285 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
QB despite some posters stupidly putting it on that position for a decade. JS/BD need to recognize this is the NFCE not the AFCE. This division is about physicality. It is why they have all those SB's. Don't expect the Buffalo perimeter offense to win here at least not to expectations.

Jones needs to be better and I have said the fact that he becomes very expensive quickly needs to be a strong factor moving forward (I'm in favor of a rookie if it is feasible). But they still need to address the underlying issue of restoring the physicality that was destroyed over the last decade.


Hogwash
RE: RE: The problem has not been  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/27/2022 10:30 am : link
In comment 15834569 family progtitioner said:
Quote:
In comment 15834285 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


QB despite some posters stupidly putting it on that position for a decade. JS/BD need to recognize this is the NFCE not the AFCE. This division is about physicality. It is why they have all those SB's. Don't expect the Buffalo perimeter offense to win here at least not to expectations.

Jones needs to be better and I have said the fact that he becomes very expensive quickly needs to be a strong factor moving forward (I'm in favor of a rookie if it is feasible). But they still need to address the underlying issue of restoring the physicality that was destroyed over the last decade.



Hogwash


Glad you understand football.
RE: RE: I think the far more interesting decision is Saquon  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 10:41 am : link
In comment 15834377 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15834360 Sean said:


Quote:


He will want an extension if he continues this pace.



I agree. I have never been a big fan of his in the past, but he is making me a believer this year. He's changed how he runs, for the better - cut out the dancing and slash upfield. I've loved what I've seen from him this year.

Still, the rub is what kind of contract would you be willing to give a guy with his injury history.


Given the injury history and the recent rb contracts given out I think the new deal could be reasonable enough to warrant bringing him back. I could be wrong but I don’t see another team making some offer thats way above what the Giants would pay. If he stays healthy I’d like to bring him back
My big issue with Jones is simple..  
Sean : 9/27/2022 10:43 am : link
If you have to talk yourself into him, he’s probably not the guy. Again, I think this has already been determined by the 5th year option not being exercised.

But, how many games do you watch and say “Jones is clearly the better QB on the field?” It isn’t much. Even guys like Taylor Heinicke looked just as good as Jones if not better when they played last year. I know Rush had better protection, but he’s an UDFA and looked just as good. Jones production should be easily replaced with a cheaper option.

People say I’m a Jones hater, but it legit terrifies me as a Giant fan to double down on a QB who needs everything *perfect* to function. It’s not the reality of the NFL.
Sean.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/27/2022 10:44 am : link
I don't think we're doubling down on him.
You can be a Jones hater  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/27/2022 10:48 am : link
and still acknowledge the Giants have as big of problems elsewhere on offense. The issue with the haters is many don't acknowledge it.
As for the Jones argument  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 10:48 am : link
He was far from the problem last night but there’s the little things that elite QBs do that Jones just doesn’t have in him. It’s year 4 and I don’t think a single coaching staff has trusted him to make a change at the LOS. That’s something that compensated for a poor oline. He does a bad job at identifying where the blitz is coming from pre snap, which is another thing that compensates for a poor oline. When has it ever looked like he slid the protection.

There were plays were Cooper Rush even saw there was a mismatch pre snap and got the ball out almost immediately to exploit the mismatch.
LOS.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/27/2022 10:50 am : link
I wouldn't categorize myself a DJ 'hater', though I was hot in the moment last night after that pick.

But the offense is so devoid of talent.
RE: You can be a Jones hater  
Sean : 9/27/2022 10:53 am : link
In comment 15834615 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
and still acknowledge the Giants have as big of problems elsewhere on offense. The issue with the haters is many don't acknowledge it.

I absolutely acknowledge that. Just look at the WR group and interior OL. Still, committing to him further makes absolutely zero sense imo.
RE: RE: RE: through 3 games Here is what Jones is better at:  
Scooter185 : 9/27/2022 10:54 am : link
In comment 15834515 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15834491 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 15834415 djm said:


Quote:


-He's a better scrambler. Like a LOT better.

-He's better at protecting the ball.

-He's better at avoiding the rush and turning nothing into something (not the same as point 1)

Try and watch the guy without the voice of big bad DG in your head. HE's gone. Try and be fair and watch the guy with an objective POV. No one cares if your stupid DJ hot takes from the last few years prove to be wrong.



I'm going to disagree with point 3, his pocket awareness continues to be a big problem. Rather than stepping up into the pocket, he runs out of it and into pressure. He also failed to recognize unblocked pass rushers twice that led to sacks. He's the QB, that is his responsibility.

He is tough, he is dealing with awful pass pro and a bad WR corps, but he has done little to show that he would be successful even with a better supporting cast. If he was still on a rookie deal next year, sure, then maybe you bring him back, but now it's at what cost?



I am not saying I am bringing him back either. But last night sure as fuck didn't convince me not to. It didn't convince me of anything. I have to laugh at anyone who says otherwise.

Also, unblocked pass-rushers typically leads to a sack or busted unsuccessful play probably more than 50% of the time. How many times did Jones make a decent play when that happened? I'd say more than 50% of the time if I had to bet.


No one is basing their desire to move on from DJ based on last night's game. But at this point DJs fans are giving him more mulligans than a 5 year old playing mini golf. How many times can one say "That one doesn't count" before concluding that Jones isn't that good?

Like Section331 said he has had a poor supporting cast, and absolutely played his heart out last night, but it can also be true that he's not part of the solution
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