all the usual caveats apply (just 1 game, etc) but that game wasn't lost as much by talent as it was in the trenches and on the sidelines.
with a rookie LT and 2 rookie TEs you would have expected Cooper Rush to be under siege all night but the d only managed a handful of pressures. for the nyg it was the reverse and all game they had no solutions for a ridiculous pass rush even with lawrence and parsons rotating out a lot in the 2nd half.
leonard williams is clearly an important piece on the defense but wink's defense last year was #1 against the run despite all the injuries in baltimore and traditionally he has mostly rotated his DL as opposed to having a player like williams in 80% of the time. to get mauled like they did for almost 200 yards in a game with cooper rush at QB is almost as bad as not sacking him once.
on the other side of the field i continue to be jealous of kellen moore as a playcaller - he took shots downfield all game, schemed easy yards, and from the moment barkley scored his touchdown to go ahead 13-6 their following drives were TD, TD, FG, punt (pinned nyg at 10 yard line with 1:52 left).
the cowboys remain an undisciplined team with an aging and depleting talent base but kellen moore and dan quinn are each among the best in the biz at their jobs and it shows up. and the opposite side of the coin is a really embarrassing performance from winks D and kafka's OL/WRs that was reminiscent of the last 2 failed regimes here.
rookies are rookies, kafka included, but in the NFL today rookies starring to win games immediately is not abnormal. Neal and Thibs each had chances to be difference makers and it's disappointing neither showed up. Davidson had a chance to step up with williams down and didn't. Belton and McFadden missed tackles.
Back to Tyler Smith, he was a raw rookie pressed into action at a position some didn't even think he could play because Tyron got hurt and per PFF he allowed just 1 pressure (2 penalties).
Meanwhile Neal per PF:
| Neal was overmatched from the get-go on Monday night against Dallas. Whether it was Micah Parsons or Demarcus Lawrence, Neal was struggling to survive one-on-one — and when he had help, too. Neal emerged from that game with a 27.4 PFF pass-blocking grade after giving up three sacks and a total of five pressures, as well as a penalty. |
this roster is simply not talented enough to win if the coaches can't get better performances out of the few highly talented players they have while other teams do (rookies or otherwise).
on an optimistic note these are 2 areas that could bounce back really quickly because they are interconnected and correctable. it could have just been 1 bad gameplan. rookies are rookies and even though he didn't flash thibodeaux graded out ok by pff. we've seen that these coaches have the capacity to make adjustments.
the bears represent a great bounce back opportunity because they will test the run D and the defense's overally physicality but their OL isn't very good and fields stinks as a passer (23/45 on the year, with 4 ints). he is yet to complete more than 8 passes or eclipse 121 yards in a single game. they are in the same stage of a rebuild with a rookie regime. laying another egg at home would be a very bad sign for this staff. but a strong bounceback performance on to a 3-1 start would be as close to a best case open as possible and it's right there in front of them.
With Kafka, I see some creative play designs but I'd like to see his approach adjust to the talent of this team.
People keep talking about Cooper Rush. Well Rush is 3-0 as a starter. He played a very good game, protected the ball, made quality throws.
Their great players played great. Other than the big drop by Cee Dee Lamb, he torched the Giants.
Pollard and Zeke both damaged the Giants. Tyler Smith is a rookie but he has played well.
Their DL overwhelmed our OL. DeMarcus Lawrence dominated and beat our line like a drum. Parsons had moments where he really affected the play and at times completely ran over our OL.
We were beat badly in the trenches all night, no worse than their DL vs our OL. But their OL also held up well and gave Rush a pocket often vs the Giants pass rush.
When the difference in the trenches is that stark on both sides of the ball, it's not scheme, we were physically beaten, by better players.
i didnt mind it but it wasn't well executed. golladay got 2 hands on that ball and if you look at the freeze frame below jones placed the ball where you want it away from the defender and he got 2 hands on it. it should have put them in range to kick a FG. my issue with the call is that they should have used more time so dallas couldn't do exactly what they did on the next play. there needs to be 4 seconds or less on the clock after the 4th down play even if jones gets picked off deep and they had the timeouts to be able to discuss that. the call should have been some kind of roll out with options for jones or a deeper pass with a shorter check down option.
With Kafka, I see some creative play designs but I'd like to see his approach adjust to the talent of this team.
They ran a lot early. It wasn't working.
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We were rushing and suffered a sack that threw everything off. I didn't like going for it in 4th down there without even at least attempting to draw Dallas offsides. We lucked out Dallas didn't get 3 at the end of the half. There is playing to win and playing stupid. The 2 min drill was more stupid and playing to win.
i didnt mind it but it wasn't well executed. golladay got 2 hands on that ball and if you look at the freeze frame below jones placed the ball where you want it away from the defender and he got 2 hands on it. it should have put them in range to kick a FG. my issue with the call is that they should have used more time so dallas couldn't do exactly what they did on the next play. there needs to be 4 seconds or less on the clock after the 4th down play even if jones gets picked off deep and they had the timeouts to be able to discuss that. the call should have been some kind of roll out with options for jones or a deeper pass with a shorter check down option.
I'm not against going for it but what I said was not even attempting to draw them offsides. Make it appear like you are just trying to draw them offsides. Lull the D to sleep and then snao the ball. Try to gain any kind of advantage you can. They rushed it just like trying to run another play after a completion. You had 3 timeouts. Why rush the offense who is at a clear disadvantage against their front 7? It hurt us more than helped.
He averaged 2.54 seconds last night only way you pressure that is with a free release and the Giants blitzed 50% on the time.
If you stopped the run and created long 3rd downs we would have been more successful and it would have created more pressure opportunities.
Dallas ran on 3rd and 12 and picked it up.
As much as everyone is screaming no pass rush it was more of a symptom of giving up 5+ yards rushing on 1st down.
People keep talking about Cooper Rush. Well Rush is 3-0 as a starter. He played a very good game, protected the ball, made quality throws.
Their great players played great. Other than the big drop by Cee Dee Lamb, he torched the Giants.
Pollard and Zeke both damaged the Giants. Tyler Smith is a rookie but he has played well.
Their DL overwhelmed our OL. DeMarcus Lawrence dominated and beat our line like a drum. Parsons had moments where he really affected the play and at times completely ran over our OL.
We were beat badly in the trenches all night, no worse than their DL vs our OL. But their OL also held up well and gave Rush a pocket often vs the Giants pass rush.
When the difference in the trenches is that stark on both sides of the ball, it's not scheme, we were physically beaten, by better players.
they were badly beaten in the trenches but unless you think tyler smith has some otherworldly talent thomas and neal don't have that shouldn't happen. the Dallas OL has mediocre players across the board other than Martin and they had 2 rookie backup TEs in assisting pass pro just like nyg.
their defense ends are legitimate stars but again - they were rotating out a lot of the second half which is when the game was lost. unless you think the giants don't have any rushers as talented as dorance armstrong or donovan wilson then again, it's not a talent question. parsons missed 17% of the snaps (mostly in the 2nd half), same with Lawrence (missed 46%).
lamb is a stud and the giants dont have anyone like him but outside 1 drive he didn't do much and he obviously doesn't have much to do with losing in the trenches.
He took on two other players and still knocked Glowinski on his ass...WTF was that?
He averaged 2.54 seconds last night only way you pressure that is with a free release and the Giants blitzed 50% on the time.
If you stopped the run and created long 3rd downs we would have been more successful and it would have created more pressure opportunities.
Dallas ran on 3rd and 12 and picked it up.
As much as everyone is screaming no pass rush it was more of a symptom of giving up 5+ yards rushing on 1st down.
100% agree - wink's unit getting caved in like they did is easily at the top of the list of things i wasn't expecting and shouldn't have happened.
it was reminiscent of the primetime eli/peyton game when Perry Fewell famously dress i think only 1 DT and they proceeded to just run the ball down our throat all game. Except the NYG had like 6 DTs active yesterday and it wasn't peyton manning it was cooper rush.
of course not but that's going to happen once a game at least to anyone playing opposite parsons. you bake that in and hope that when it happens the qb smartly throws it away or takes a sack without a fumble. parsons is a game wrecker who makes game wrecking plays.
lawrence isn't that good any more though and he only played 30 something snaps yet still had 3 clean sacks on easy wins. at least 1 with neal having the TE next to him to chip.
the dallas pass rush wasn't just 1 or 2 players out talenting the guy across from them, it was a total systemic breakdown by the nyg protections. inside, outside, right, left, blitzers, 4 man rush, it didn't matter there was pressure.
This coaching staff as a whole needs to be better.
I was not a fan of the JS/DB tandem. NFCE has always been about winning the lines first. They need to adjust accordingly imv. Dallas, Philly and WFT all will make huge investment in these areas. Giants need to better compete here if they want to end the negative cycle. This has been the underlying issue for a decade. OL and impact front 7 personnel.
The 2 dynamic WRs not playing yesterday would have helped a ton last night. One is hurt, the other refuses to play
Both, however, are slot guys. The Giants need 2 outside WRs, another outside corner, 2 MLBs, 2 guards, and a center
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Is you can't scheme your way out of Parsons putting Glowinski flat on his back.
of course not but that's going to happen once a game at least to anyone playing opposite parsons. you bake that in and hope that when it happens the qb smartly throws it away or takes a sack without a fumble. parsons is a game wrecker who makes game wrecking plays.
lawrence isn't that good any more though and he only played 30 something snaps yet still had 3 clean sacks on easy wins. at least 1 with neal having the TE next to him to chip.
the dallas pass rush wasn't just 1 or 2 players out talenting the guy across from them, it was a total systemic breakdown by the nyg protections. inside, outside, right, left, blitzers, 4 man rush, it didn't matter there was pressure.
"Lawrence is not that good anymore."
What misinformed person told you that?
Lawrence is outstanding. Do you realize the injuries he's dealt with the last couple of seasons? He's also been one of the best edge run defenders in the NFL for the last several seasons.
I hate talking up Cowboys players but Lawrence on the Giants would immediately be perhaps our best defensive player.
You have to get Barkley the ball in that situation. Only 14 carries for Saquon. Kafka did not have a good game,
The 2 dynamic WRs not playing yesterday would have helped a ton last night. One is hurt, the other refuses to play
Both, however, are slot guys. The Giants need 2 outside WRs, another outside corner, 2 MLBs, 2 guards, and a center
It was dropped, just like the earlier 3rd down pass. Ball was put where the defender could not get to it. Two hands on the ball. Good WRs catch that ball - it was not perfect, but it was catchable.
You have to get Barkley the ball in that situation. Only 14 carries for Saquon. Kafka did not have a good game,
IMHO, he did not have a good game last week either. He is new to play calling. Everyone needs to grow into their job.
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Golladay had no chance on it
The 2 dynamic WRs not playing yesterday would have helped a ton last night. One is hurt, the other refuses to play
Both, however, are slot guys. The Giants need 2 outside WRs, another outside corner, 2 MLBs, 2 guards, and a center
It was dropped, just like the earlier 3rd down pass. Ball was put where the defender could not get to it. Two hands on the ball. Good WRs catch that ball - it was not perfect, but it was catchable.
No, it wasnt. It was late and behind him
Golladay should have caught it, plain and simple.
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In comment 15834568 allstarjim said:
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Is you can't scheme your way out of Parsons putting Glowinski flat on his back.
of course not but that's going to happen once a game at least to anyone playing opposite parsons. you bake that in and hope that when it happens the qb smartly throws it away or takes a sack without a fumble. parsons is a game wrecker who makes game wrecking plays.
lawrence isn't that good any more though and he only played 30 something snaps yet still had 3 clean sacks on easy wins. at least 1 with neal having the TE next to him to chip.
the dallas pass rush wasn't just 1 or 2 players out talenting the guy across from them, it was a total systemic breakdown by the nyg protections. inside, outside, right, left, blitzers, 4 man rush, it didn't matter there was pressure.
"Lawrence is not that good anymore."
What misinformed person told you that?
reread what i wrote - "isnt that good" was in reference to being as good as parsons. Lawrence is clearly still good but he is not on parsons level (not sure anyone is right now). he matched his 7 game sack total in last night's game alone. in his prior 32 games he had 11.5 for an average just under 6 per year. he has not been the game wrecker he was last night for some time.
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Golladay had no chance on it
The 2 dynamic WRs not playing yesterday would have helped a ton last night. One is hurt, the other refuses to play
Both, however, are slot guys. The Giants need 2 outside WRs, another outside corner, 2 MLBs, 2 guards, and a center
It was dropped, just like the earlier 3rd down pass. Ball was put where the defender could not get to it. Two hands on the ball. Good WRs catch that ball - it was not perfect, but it was catchable.
that was an easier catch by several magnitudes than the one lamb made on their 4th down when he got smoked and may have been short. those 2 catches = 10 point swing. which may only have been barely good enough to pull a miraculous victory out of a total ass whooping in the trenches.
golladay looks shot but that was a catchable ball right in areas where he was at least somewhat competent last year.
Golladay should have caught it, plain and simple.
100%. wasn't all the talk leading up to the game that his game is 50/50 balls?
like i said my issue with that call is not taking more time off the clock with a different type of play but the look they got should have been a first down.
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Daboll is clearly trying to step on the gas whenever he can and IMO it was a really good opportunity to do it and steal some points. The risk is obviously not getting it and Dallas kicking a FG, but that's going to happen at times when you play aggressive.
Golladay should have caught it, plain and simple.
100%. wasn't all the talk leading up to the game that his game is 50/50 balls?
like i said my issue with that call is not taking more time off the clock with a different type of play but the look they got should have been a first down.
100% if you get 2 hands on the ball you need to catch the ball, no excuses
The myth the Giants invest less than the good NFL teams is a cockroach that gets life from who knows where.
As Eric in Li points out -- the Giants invested two top 10 overall picks on the respective lines and both players were thoroughly outclassed. Not simple rookie growing pains, but like genuinely bad football last night.
Thibs, Ojulari, and Lawrence need to develop into cornerstones on defense. They can't wilt because Leonard Williams missed his first game as a Giant.
Thomas, Neal, and Ezeudu need to develop into a longterm core on the offensive line.
These aren't late round flyers.
The myth the Giants invest less than the good NFL teams is a cockroach that gets life from who knows where.
As Eric in Li points out -- the Giants invested two top 10 overall picks on the respective lines and both players were thoroughly outclassed. Not simple rookie growing pains, but like genuinely bad football last night.
Thibs, Ojulari, and Lawrence need to develop into cornerstones on defense. They can't wilt because Leonard Williams missed his first game as a Giant.
Thomas, Neal, and Ezeudu need to develop into a longterm core on the offensive line.
These aren't late round flyers.
agree 100%.
hindsight is 20/20 but put say Garrett Wilson, Drake London, or Chris Olave on the field, or imagine this - add 2 of them, and it's a very different game. or Jordan Davis. or even unfortunately maybe even Tyler Smith.
1 game is just 1 game so i'm a lot less down on the rookies themselves than their utilization by the coaches. Wink was rolling Ojulari and Thibs together as starters even though they were on a pitch count and even though Ximines and Ward have played well especially against the run. Against a team likely to try to run the ball a lot and down LW that seems to have been the wrong choice.
And as much as people have liked Bobby Johnson, the early returns on all non-AT OL have been pretty bad. Neal has rated low all 3 weeks, they targeted Glowinski/Feliciano in UFA over many others in a similar price range and both have been spotty, Ezeudu growing pains when again there were some higher consensus players on board. The OL is an area we need to see a lot more improvement.