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Daniel Jones slowest in the NFL in Snap to Release

BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 12:27 pm
3.3 seconds!

Perfect storm of

Slow post snap processing
Indecisiveness
Awful WRs who can’t get separation

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And no time to throw.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/27/2022 12:28 pm : link
Don't forget that.

And I'm no Jones supporter.
Also shows that the OLine isn’t the big issue  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 12:28 pm : link
Some are making it out to be

Is it average to below average overall? Sure

But it’s not the sole reason Jones struggles
Yes he's slow  
Producer : 9/27/2022 12:29 pm : link
period
RE: And no time to throw.  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15834997 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
Don't forget that.

And I'm no Jones supporter.


Actually this stat shows just the opposite
RE: Also shows that the OLine isn’t the big issue  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/27/2022 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15835000 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
Some are making it out to be

Is it average to below average overall? Sure

But it’s not the sole reason Jones struggles


Are you nuts? Did you watch the game? There were multiple times last night that even after extending the play with his legs Jones had to throw the ball away because our receivers aren't open. The Oline is awful.
RE: And no time to throw.  
Blue The Dog : 9/27/2022 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15834997 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
Don't forget that.

And I'm no Jones supporter.


Huh? Are you saying Jones takes the longest to throw a pass because he has no time to throw?
That's what happens when your receivers get no separation  
kelly : 9/27/2022 12:30 pm : link
You can't throw the ball when there is no one to throw it too.

Imagine a progression of golladay, Sills, Shep.

You need a calenders not a stop watch to time when they get open.
Funny how  
mittenedman : 9/27/2022 12:30 pm : link
when you have to run for your life the second you catch the snap, it causes you to hold the ball longer.
And the 2 guys they should be calling  
Bill in UT : 9/27/2022 12:31 pm : link
quick-release passes for are out injured
RE: And no time to throw.  
Mike from Ohio : 9/27/2022 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15834997 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
Don't forget that.

And I'm no Jones supporter.


How does the QB who holds the ball the longest in the NFL not have time to throw? What that metric tells you is that nobody in the league is holding the ball longer than Jones.
I don't know what else people need to see.  
Kmed6000 : 9/27/2022 12:31 pm : link
He's shown zero ability to process what he's seeing. He has all of the physical tools and few of the mental tools needed to play QB. It's over, time to move on.
Hmm take a stop watch  
Dave on the UWS : 9/27/2022 12:31 pm : link
and re-watch the game. On any non scramble he never had CLOSE to 3.3 sec to throw. That’s another bull shit stat. Use your eyes.
Correct  
robbieballs2003 : 9/27/2022 12:32 pm : link
This stat doesn't show the OL isn't bad. This shows Jones has to constantly adjust to keep plays alive. Look at Rush. Everyone raves about how fast he gets the ball out. Doesn't Dallas' OL suck because he gets the ball out quick?
It’s 3.13 seconds  
10thAve : 9/27/2022 12:32 pm : link
I think a big factor is also him buying time by scrambling as he’s often under duress on most pass plays. If you look at that list Lamar Jackson, Mariota, Cousins, even Herbert and Russel Wilson aren’t too far off of Jones’ number. Are those guys all as bad as him? Of course not, but they are mobile and are able to buy time.

Jones has his deficiencies obviously, but I think this number is a product of him buying time due to the heavy pressure he’s often under.
I'm not sure this stat shows what you think it shows  
PatersonPlank : 9/27/2022 12:33 pm : link
Do you know how it is calculated?

After looking at the table it seems that the more mobile QBs are at the bottom, which could likely mean that these guys are buying more time with their movement in the pocket (which is a good thing). So guys like Lamar, Fields, and Jones are scrambling around waiting for someone to get open (thus driving up the stat), while immobile guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Jimmy G rely on a quicker release because they can't buy that much time (put Eli on this list).

I'm not sure how its calculated, but at a surface level read this could be what its showing not some slow decision making (which would mean Lamar is slow too then?).
Combo of WR who cant seperate  
Dankbeerman : 9/27/2022 12:33 pm : link
and guys staying in to block or chip before releasing and Pressure as Jones is constantly moving before he hits his drop
That stat means really nothing.  
section125 : 9/27/2022 12:34 pm : link
What WRs are open? You cannot throw if the WRs aren't open and you have to run for your life....

And yes he holds the ball too long, but I cannot see on TV what he sees(or doesn't).

RE: It’s 3.13 seconds  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15835020 10thAve said:
Quote:
I think a big factor is also him buying time by scrambling as he’s often under duress on most pass plays. If you look at that list Lamar Jackson, Mariota, Cousins, even Herbert and Russel Wilson aren’t too far off of Jones’ number. Are those guys all as bad as him? Of course not, but they are mobile and are able to buy time.

Jones has his deficiencies obviously, but I think this number is a product of him buying time due to the heavy pressure he’s often under.


I say this all the time about Jones; he doesn’t move around in the pocket or scramble to make a play with his arm. When his reads aren’t there Jones just goes into run mode and has zero intention of keeping his eyes down field
He struggles in processing  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/27/2022 12:36 pm : link
OL
WR's
Jones

Last night he was last on the pecking order. With a Diggs or Chase type of WR I bet we see a few big connections downfield with how he was able to escape pressure. So he "elevated" the OL but then the WR's did not enable him to "elevate" them imv.
RE: That stat means really nothing.  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15835026 section125 said:
Quote:
What WRs are open? You cannot throw if the WRs aren't open and you have to run for your life....

And yes he holds the ball too long, but I cannot see on TV what he sees(or doesn't).


Did you even read my post or did my click bait thread title get you too riled up?
These advanced metrics mean nothing if you don't  
csb : 9/27/2022 12:36 pm : link
understand them within the context of the game. DJ had 5+ plays where he held onto the ball for 6-7 seconds because the pocket broke down immediately and he needed to escape to find a throwing lane. Dallas was also playing press and jamming the WR's off the line; if guys aren't getting open then you will have to hold the ball longer. Anyone who thinks that this is "proof" that DJ had a bad game isn't understanding the big picture.
Still...gotta love the effort on this site  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/27/2022 12:37 pm : link
Of half the posters on this site trying to bury Jones last night. I get it if you hated the draft pick and have an agenda, but to cherry pick this stat and act like you know about football to do it...
RE: RE: And no time to throw.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/27/2022 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15835008 Blue The Dog said:
Quote:
In comment 15834997 SirLoinOfBeef said:


Quote:


Don't forget that.

And I'm no Jones supporter.



Huh? Are you saying Jones takes the longest to throw a pass because he has no time to throw?


HA1 I suppose so. Covid has me in a fog.
He looked like he was starting to get  
RAIN : 9/27/2022 12:40 pm : link
The offense, and letting it rip a bit last night.

Reminder to folks, he’s in a new offense (his 3rd). I’m guessing his slow reads in weeks 1/2, we’re attributed to his unfamiliarity with the offense and having the worst WR corp in the league.

Not saying he’s the answer, but he seemed to make some progress in Daboll/Kafka’s O last night.

How often has he just been able to snap and look?  
Coopcomic : 9/27/2022 12:40 pm : link
It is rare for him to actually have time - and he made good passes. Cooper Rush had time to boil a cup of tea before he actually had to move.
Running  
Ron Johnson : 9/27/2022 12:41 pm : link
For your life slows down your release.
RE: RE: That stat means really nothing.  
section125 : 9/27/2022 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15835034 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15835026 section125 said:


Quote:


What WRs are open? You cannot throw if the WRs aren't open and you have to run for your life....

And yes he holds the ball too long, but I cannot see on TV what he sees(or doesn't).




Did you even read my post or did my click bait thread title get you too riled up?


I read your post. And really do not care what some casual data point says. You cannot throw the ball to somebody that is not open. Did you see anybody just open last night, or did he have to run around to find time?

I 'm hardly riled up. I just don't like stats that are easily refuted by common sense.

And then I said I believe he does hold the ball too long.
...  
riceneggs : 9/27/2022 12:42 pm : link
I said this last night

He doesn't throw the ball until the receiver has turned and made eye contact with him

Good-to-great QBs release the ball before the WR is out of his break

That 1 second difference is huge

That's why alot of his balls are knocked down and contested, imo
Does this include plays  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:42 pm : link
where he has to scramble out to get away from pressure and then wait for a receiver to get open?

Does this take into account receivers not being able to beat their DB off the ball?

You are spinning a metric to fit your narrative..

I dont think Jones is the future either but to say he is the issue with this offense just shows you dont know what you are watching..
Any chance this could be because there's nobody open?  
Walker Gillette : 9/27/2022 12:42 pm : link
I think we can all agree that the Giants WRs are slightly subpar. Excuses I know!
Look, it's abundantly clear...  
bw in dc : 9/27/2022 12:45 pm : link
Jones need the "Mississippi Rush Rules" to have any chance to succeed in the NFL.

And probably the 5-count rule - 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3, Mississippi, 4 Mississippi, 5 Mississippi.

Jones went to a great academic school and apparently did well. But that doesn't translate to an NFL field. He's just not a bright NFL player. He is a paint-by-numbers QB who needs to follow a sequence of easy-to-follow rules to possibly succeed.

Unfortunately.
RE: RE: And no time to throw.  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15835005 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15834997 SirLoinOfBeef said:


Quote:


Don't forget that.

And I'm no Jones supporter.



Actually this stat shows just the opposite


It doesn’t. That stat is only on attempted passes. Doesn’t count sacks, scrambles where he runs or throwaways
RE: Does this include plays  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15835059 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
where he has to scramble out to get away from pressure and then wait for a receiver to get open?

Does this take into account receivers not being able to beat their DB off the ball?

You are spinning a metric to fit your narrative..

I dont think Jones is the future either but to say he is the issue with this offense just shows you dont know what you are watching..


What’s my narrative exactly? I called out the WRs nd called the oline average at best

Now I see why our country is fucked. Nobody reads and everybody just wants to argue their preconceived opinion

Fuck
RE: That stat means really nothing.  
riceneggs : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15835026 section125 said:
Quote:
What WRs are open? You cannot throw if the WRs aren't open and you have to run for your life....

And yes he holds the ball too long, but I cannot see on TV what he sees(or doesn't).


WR are open. DJ just doesn't process what "open" means

On a slant, I'm "open" as soon as I plant my foot in the ground to cut inside

But if you wait an extra second to throw it, I'm not open anymore because the DB is working on his counter

Does that make sense?
...  
christian : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
This is an incomplete data point.

When a QB is under pressure and has to reset his position or scramble, of course the snap to release time is increased.

The better data point to understand if Jones holds the ball too long would be to remove snaps where he's under pressure.

And even then, this would be directional data at best.

I'm getting annoyed with myself, I'm defending Jones too much this morning = )
RE: ...  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15835058 riceneggs said:
Quote:
I said this last night

He doesn't throw the ball until the receiver has turned and made eye contact with him

Good-to-great QBs release the ball before the WR is out of his break

Did you see what happened when he did that the last play of the game last night?

That 1 second difference is huge

That's why alot of his balls are knocked down and contested, imo
RE: RE: RE: And no time to throw.  
JohnnyFlowers : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15835040 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 15835008 Blue The Dog said:


Quote:


In comment 15834997 SirLoinOfBeef said:


Quote:


Don't forget that.

And I'm no Jones supporter.



Huh? Are you saying Jones takes the longest to throw a pass because he has no time to throw?



HA1 I suppose so. Covid has me in a fog.


This metric is inflated because he has to make a rusher miss or roll away from pressure to even get rid of the ball.
This stat shows that  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 12:48 pm : link
When Jones does make a throw he’s holding on to the ball. It doesn’t mean it happens on every play, just when he makes a throw.

What it does reveal is that he’s not making quick decisions to avoid the rush in the other circumstances, else the average would be lower
RE: This stat shows that  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15835087 ajr2456 said:
Quote:


What it does reveal is that he’s not making quick decisions to avoid the rush in the other circumstances, else the average would be lower



Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
RE: Hmm take a stop watch  
BillKo : 9/27/2022 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15835017 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
and re-watch the game. On any non scramble he never had CLOSE to 3.3 sec to throw. That’s another bull shit stat. Use your eyes.


If DJ holds the ball because no one is open, scrambles, then throws and it's 3.3 seconds, how is that his fault? That happened A TON yesterday.

I don't get the stat either.
Beginning to wonder  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/27/2022 12:52 pm : link
If people actually watch these games and what they're looking at if they do. This stat might mean something if Jones was standing in the pocket for 3.13 seconds before delivering the ball. He's not. Last night is a perfect example. He was almost immediately under pressure. It's funny how having to run for your life actually increases the time a QB holds the ball by needing to extend the play.
RE: This stat shows that  
Walker Gillette : 9/27/2022 12:52 pm : link
In comment 15835087 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
When Jones does make a throw he’s holding on to the ball. It doesn’t mean it happens on every play, just when he makes a throw.

What it does reveal is that he’s not making quick decisions to avoid the rush in the other circumstances, else the average would be lower


Hebert isn't too far away from him at 2.9
RE: RE: This stat shows that  
robbieballs2003 : 9/27/2022 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15835101 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15835087 ajr2456 said:


Quote:




What it does reveal is that he’s not making quick decisions to avoid the rush in the other circumstances, else the average would be lower




Ding ding ding, we have a winner!


Not true. It's a team sport. Receivers were not open so what would you like him to do? Throw the ball into harms way, take a sack, or take an intentional grounding. Again, look at the group he is with. Mobile QBs hold onto the ball longer because they can. He has bought plenty of time this year to try to let things develop. It isn't as simple as saying he isn't making quick decisions. His decison is quick, he can't throw it to his first read before being pressures.

Someone above said we should take out all the scrambles he has to get a better idea. Well, what about all the sacks he has taken this year too. What is the average time per sack. People like to say he holds the ball too long but I bet you'd be surprised by how quickly he is getting sacked.
RE: RE: It’s 3.13 seconds  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/27/2022 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15835027 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:


I say this all the time about Jones; he doesn’t move around in the pocket or scramble to make a play with his arm. When his reads aren’t there Jones just goes into run mode and has zero intention of keeping his eyes down field


This is directly counter to everything Aikman said last night during the game. I think he might know a thing or two about playing QB.
You mean can’t release it  
jeff57 : 9/27/2022 12:55 pm : link
Because he’s running for his life?
RE: RE: This stat shows that  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15835114 Walker Gillette said:
Quote:
In comment 15835087 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


When Jones does make a throw he’s holding on to the ball. It doesn’t mean it happens on every play, just when he makes a throw.

What it does reveal is that he’s not making quick decisions to avoid the rush in the other circumstances, else the average would be lower



Hebert isn't too far away from him at 2.9


Not every QBs number is the way it is for the same reason. The Chargers line is much better.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 9/27/2022 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15835078 christian said:
Quote:
This is an incomplete data point.

When a QB is under pressure and has to reset his position or scramble, of course the snap to release time is increased.

The better data point to understand if Jones holds the ball too long would be to remove snaps where he's under pressure.

And even then, this would be directional data at best.

I'm getting annoyed with myself, I'm defending Jones too much this morning = )


If you want to see who the real Jones is, the All-22 tells the consistent story. There are plenty of clips out there.

Jones can't or won't see the entire field consistently. And he misses just way too many opportunities to execute successful plays. When he does seem to process the right play, he has this quasi-double clutch move where he just can't pull the trigger. Either he doesn't have the confidence in his ability, or he'd rather just take the miss and move onto the next play. It's the most irritating problem to study.

RE: RE: RE: It’s 3.13 seconds  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15835124 Cap'n Bluebeard said:
Quote:
In comment 15835027 BigBlue7 said:


Quote:




I say this all the time about Jones; he doesn’t move around in the pocket or scramble to make a play with his arm. When his reads aren’t there Jones just goes into run mode and has zero intention of keeping his eyes down field



This is directly counter to everything Aikman said last night during the game. I think he might know a thing or two about playing QB.


He literally did this all night last night
Yup  
Carl in CT : 9/27/2022 12:59 pm : link
1) yup no blocking
2) running for his life
3) receivers can’t get open.

In my book after constant pressure no turnovers again. An NFL receiver falls down running a route a) is not an interception on the QB and b) shouldn’t be an nfl receiver. Can a normal human walk and chew gum? This is his job. We have shit.
RE: RE: This stat shows that  
BigBlue7 : 9/27/2022 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15835114 Walker Gillette said:
Quote:
In comment 15835087 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


When Jones does make a throw he’s holding on to the ball. It doesn’t mean it happens on every play, just when he makes a throw.

What it does reveal is that he’s not making quick decisions to avoid the rush in the other circumstances, else the average would be lower



Hebert isn't too far away from him at 2.9


A half second in the NFL is huge
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