Don't the Knicks employ a huge amount of analytics people now? Can't someone just make a couple charts to show him?
Also, if you're going to use sample size as an excuse about the numbers, guess who that's on? You. It's on you for never playing them together because "the numbers aren't good on that" or whatever nonsense he's peddling.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Tom Thibodeau didn't sound too eager to use a Julius Randle-Obi Toppin lineup. He said they've looked at it in practice and in small doses last season:
"I think the numbers show it wasn't very effective."
Frank Barrett
@FrankBarrett119
·
20m
Replying to
@SBondyNYDN
Could you have the actual numbers ready so that next time this question is asked you have a follow-up? I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s your job, right?
Hint: Thibs is wronh about what the numbers show.
2020-2021: 39 min, +8.1/100 net
2021-2022: 101 min, +3.7/100 net
concern is that Thibs doesn't seem particularly willing to adjust on the fly. Are there poor matchups for Randle/Obi together? Of course. Are there teams/lineups where their flaws are less of an issue? Yup. What's the path to Obi ever playing 24-25 minutes per night let alone more? IQ and Obi finished strong, what's their reward or earned opportunity? For IQ likely less minutes, Obi... more of the same. Why not Believe in your ability to scheme/play mismatches when they arise vs. closing the door?
concern is that Thibs doesn't seem particularly willing to adjust on the fly. Are there poor matchups for Randle/Obi together? Of course. Are there teams/lineups where their flaws are less of an issue? Yup. What's the path to Obi ever playing 24-25 minutes per night let alone more? IQ and Obi finished strong, what's their reward or earned opportunity? For IQ likely less minutes, Obi... more of the same. Why not Believe in your ability to scheme/play mismatches when they arise vs. closing the door?
This is exactly it, you cant play big against everyone, jiat like you cant play small agianst everyone..
But Thibs plays big no matter what, there is no nuance, its rigid, its old and there is no change..
You can literally pick out his rotation before the game starts and there is no deviation
concern is that Thibs doesn't seem particularly willing to adjust on the fly. Are there poor matchups for Randle/Obi together? Of course. Are there teams/lineups where their flaws are less of an issue? Yup. What's the path to Obi ever playing 24-25 minutes per night let alone more? IQ and Obi finished strong, what's their reward or earned opportunity? For IQ likely less minutes, Obi... more of the same. Why not Believe in your ability to scheme/play mismatches when they arise vs. closing the door?
This.
Why are we always playing the same teams out there and not exploiting other teams. If they go small, you can get the rebounding you need from Obi/Randle. If a guy is having an off night, you can take him out.
That's why I don't like it when people talk about closing lineups and stuff. We have like 11 players on the roster with unique talents that could all play roles on this team. Be creative and mix and match lineups.
concern is that Thibs doesn't seem particularly willing to adjust on the fly. Are there poor matchups for Randle/Obi together? Of course. Are there teams/lineups where their flaws are less of an issue? Yup. What's the path to Obi ever playing 24-25 minutes per night let alone more? IQ and Obi finished strong, what's their reward or earned opportunity? For IQ likely less minutes, Obi... more of the same. Why not Believe in your ability to scheme/play mismatches when they arise vs. closing the door?
This.
Why are we always playing the same teams out there and not exploiting other teams. If they go small, you can get the rebounding you need from Obi/Randle. If a guy is having an off night, you can take him out.
That's why I don't like it when people talk about closing lineups and stuff. We have like 11 players on the roster with unique talents that could all play roles on this team. Be creative and mix and match lineups.
Its crazy because the Knicks should be a handful to scheme against because of all the different combinations to throw out there and they just stick to the same tired rotation and a big man..
Imagine a team trying to go small against the Knicks and the Knicks counter with Randle and Obi and force a smaller player to guard Randle in the post?
You match the speed of a small team and still play with size
He's currently hammering home that the thing that Thibs doesn't like about Obi is his rebounding. If he can get on the boards, he'll get more playing time and saying "you don't always have to leak out".
This is pretty frustrating if true. You have a coach who ALWAYS wants a center on the floor for rim protection and rebounding. Can't the center and guards rebound and a guy who excels at running the floor and getting easy baskets do that? Just reeks of trying to force a player into a role instead of adjusting lineups to accentuate talent.
Eric Gonzalez
@ericgonzo1208
·
1m
Voice of the @NBA
and @nyknicks
Mike Breen lost his home in a fire on Sunday!! Praying for him and his family! Happy to hear he’s safe! A legend. #Knicks #NBA
Unless they lose badly, which I don't see happening because they have talent without the kids. They could win 37-43 games with the current starters
Brunson, Fournier, RJ, Randle and Mitch
And a bench of Hartenstein, Rose, Grimes, Obi, and Cam.
So there is no pressing need to make changes.
Obviously it kills development and hurts the team long term but Thibs is all about winning games and Rose is a big Thibs fan and friend.
I don't think Dolan cares anymore about a championship and just wants to cash checks and not deal with the nonsense. Rose makes it easy.
Unless they lose badly, which I don't see happening because they have talent without the kids. They could win 37-43 games with the current starters
Brunson, Fournier, RJ, Randle and Mitch
And a bench of Hartenstein, Rose, Grimes, Obi, and Cam.
So there is no pressing need to make changes.
Obviously it kills development and hurts the team long term but Thibs is all about winning games and Rose is a big Thibs fan and friend.
I don't think Dolan cares anymore about a championship and just wants to cash checks and not deal with the nonsense. Rose makes it easy.
I disagree, Larry. Knicks start off badly, Thibs is gone. He is skating on thin ice
Cam Reddish spent the summer working on his shooting, including shot creation, as well as spending time in the weight room. But when asked Wednesday if it has been made clear to him what he needs to do to get minutes amid a crowded Knicks rotation on the wing, Reddish said he doesn’t quite know.
“I’m still figuring that out. That’s actually a really good question,” Reddish said. “I’m still figuring that out, trying to find my role where I fit in. I’m really willing to do whatever it takes to win. Whatever that role is, whatever it may be, that’s fine with me. We’re winning, we all look good.”
Speaking to media for the first time since The Post reported he wants a change of scenery to a team with which he can seek a larger role, Reddish artfully sidestepped the premise by denying he had requested a trade. Asked whether he wants to stay in New York given the realities of the Knicks’ rotation and his lack of a clear role, Reddish gave a nonanswer.
“I control what I can control,” he said. “So minutes and all that stuff have nothing to do with me. I just come in and do my job. Work as hard as I can every single day. I’m available, I’m healthy. So whatever happens, happens.” Link - ( New Window )
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
just because the replacement sucks doesnt mean the predecesor didnt deserve to be fired..
Woodson did not deserve to be fired, he is about the only one..
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
just because the replacement sucks doesnt mean the predecesor didnt deserve to be fired..
Woodson did not deserve to be fired, he is about the only one..
Coughlin was done when he got fired
Agree on both Woodson and Coughlin. Woodson was unfairly terminated because Phil Jackson wanted his own guy. Coughlin's tenure had run it's course. It happens. They won 19 games his final 3 seasons and missed the playoffs his final 4 seasons.
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
The Westchester Knicks, the official NBA G League affiliate of the New York Knicks, announced today that DeSagana Diop has been named the fifth head coach in franchise history.
– via Westchester Knicks
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
You don’t keep a coach simply because his replacement may end up being worse. And defending him at every turn because you’re afraid his replacement may be worse is just as lame. Unless of course you’re perfectly content with mediocrity because you’re too afraid of the risk of change, which seems to be the case with you. The next guy may suck. That doesn’t make current man the best man for the job
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
You don’t keep a coach simply because his replacement may end up being worse. And defending him at every turn because you’re afraid his replacement may be worse is just as lame. Unless of course you’re perfectly content with mediocrity because you’re too afraid of the risk of change, which seems to be the case with you. The next guy may suck. That doesn’t make current man the best man for the job
I am defending him because I think he's a good coach. I don't want to hire a bad coach here. He's underrated here in my view.
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
You don’t keep a coach simply because his replacement may end up being worse. And defending him at every turn because you’re afraid his replacement may be worse is just as lame. Unless of course you’re perfectly content with mediocrity because you’re too afraid of the risk of change, which seems to be the case with you. The next guy may suck. That doesn’t make current man the best man for the job
I am defending him because I think he's a good coach. I don't want to hire a bad coach here. He's underrated here in my view.
He is a good coach who is stubborn and not a fit for the future of this team
Nobody is saying he’s not. I just don’t think he’s the best fit for the roster they’ve put together. Not all his fault of course, but Thibs wants to play defense and a slow half court game to minimize possessions while he’s got a roster full of mostly poor defenders that are at their best getting out in transition and playing uptempo.
Feel free to blame the front office if you’d like, it’s perfectly reasonable. But either way the roster constructed is the opposite, skill/style wise, of what Thibs works with best. And he’s proven too stubborn and/or incapable of adjusting to the players’ skillsets to maximize their capabilities
Thibs is a bullet-proof vest for this front office. Not firing him was a no brainer because he's the next person in line in the blame game.
That's why it was very predictable that this front office isn't going to mandate Thibs make changes to the rotation at any point. If they do, it's harder for him to take the fall for their roster construction.
Thibs gets a lot of shit on this board and on knicks twitter
But he deserves credit for the job he's done. He's brought a lot of stability to the franchise and has coached the roster he's been given really well. Unless you really want a tank commander like Ainge just set up in Utah, he's a really good coach and the best coach we've had since JVG.
We didn't like seeing so much Burks but he did what he thought was best after Kemba was clearly cooked and Rose got hurt. This year, we won't have that happen because the roster is better and PG should be a LOT deeper and IQ showed he can get the job done.
We don't like Randle over Obi but Randle is also their best player and the best player gets a long run to straighten himself out. Maybe he does this year.
He may not give the kids a lot of minutes but they have developed under him and gotten better each year and as each season has gone along. He gave the young guys run down the stretch. He should also get some credit for that.
This is the deepest Knicks team I've followed. But it lacks star players and so we'll lose some games because of it. And when we do and we are pissed off about it, the guys on the bench are going to look much better to us than the guys that just lost.
RE: Thibs gets a lot of shit on this board and on knicks twitter
But he deserves credit for the job he's done. He's brought a lot of stability to the franchise and has coached the roster he's been given really well. Unless you really want a tank commander like Ainge just set up in Utah, he's a really good coach and the best coach we've had since JVG.
We didn't like seeing so much Burks but he did what he thought was best after Kemba was clearly cooked and Rose got hurt. This year, we won't have that happen because the roster is better and PG should be a LOT deeper and IQ showed he can get the job done.
We don't like Randle over Obi but Randle is also their best player and the best player gets a long run to straighten himself out. Maybe he does this year.
He may not give the kids a lot of minutes but they have developed under him and gotten better each year and as each season has gone along. He gave the young guys run down the stretch. He should also get some credit for that.
This is the deepest Knicks team I've followed. But it lacks star players and so we'll lose some games because of it. And when we do and we are pissed off about it, the guys on the bench are going to look much better to us than the guys that just lost.
I agree with SOME of your points. Like Thibs definitely deserves credit for developing the kids and putting them in a situation to succeed. He's really good at the things he's really good at. Coaching team defense, making sure the young guys are accountable, Team preparation and film study.
But, some of the stuff you said is worse than you made it out to be. Sure, we didn't have a PG with Rose and Kemba being hurt and sucking last year. But you can't give Burks 36 minutes down the stretch. Even after we're elimiated from playoff contention, he got more minutes that Quickley and McBride. They only made Julius sit for the last 5 games.
Also, I think the biggest thing is if he was really interested in winning, he would recognize that some of these younger players are more effective in their minutes than their vet counterparts and yet he still insists on these rotation patterns that favor what he thinks SHOULD work the best.
any way you want to paint it he was an awful coach, thw year before he was a great coach got a lot out of team with little talent..
But last year it was terrible, it was stubborn and lacked any willingness to try anything different because he had to play his guys and that was it.
There is example after example of him costing the team games because of his stubborness and need to have Burks and Randle cllse games..It cost them at minimum 5 games last year..
He is a good coach who is not a fit for this team, this team actually can have some fun lineups, will we see them? absolutely not. Mitch or Hartenstein will play the entire 48 at the 5, Randle and Toppin will play the entire 48 at the 4..He is to rigid and that wont change..
Fuck you, I do what I want..
It would probably make it easier on the fan base to understand.
That's his basic attitude towards everything everyone else say in regards to minutes, starters, plays, stats, etc.
It's obvious he answers to no one which had overwhelming success in Minnesota.
Just fire this clown already, I didn't want him when we hired him and he has done exactly what I expected.
The Knicks are atop a crowded pack of contenders for spots in the play-in tournament after adding Jalen Brunson in free agency. Additionally, New York should benefit from the pull of regression following a dramatic defensive decline in Tom Thibodeau's second season at the helm. Link - ( New Window )
Knicks Videos
@sny_knicks
"It's not only the numbers, I actually watch the games"
Tom Thibodeau argues that blowouts last year skewed the statistics of the Obi Toppin-Julius Randle pairing:
Could really do without the “I’m an NBA coach and you’re all nobodies so don’t question me” bullshit from Thibs. He said something similar last season in regards to watching the games more than them.
How about you just answer the question? “I actually watch the games” accomplishes what, exactly? Arrogant fuck.
Also, if you're going to use sample size as an excuse about the numbers, guess who that's on? You. It's on you for never playing them together because "the numbers aren't good on that" or whatever nonsense he's peddling.
@SBondyNYDN
Tom Thibodeau didn't sound too eager to use a Julius Randle-Obi Toppin lineup. He said they've looked at it in practice and in small doses last season:
"I think the numbers show it wasn't very effective."
Frank Barrett
@FrankBarrett119
·
20m
Replying to
@SBondyNYDN
Could you have the actual numbers ready so that next time this question is asked you have a follow-up? I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s your job, right?
Hint: Thibs is wronh about what the numbers show.
2020-2021: 39 min, +8.1/100 net
2021-2022: 101 min, +3.7/100 net
Yeesh. That is entering Gettleman territory.
This is exactly it, you cant play big against everyone, jiat like you cant play small agianst everyone..
But Thibs plays big no matter what, there is no nuance, its rigid, its old and there is no change..
You can literally pick out his rotation before the game starts and there is no deviation
The funny thing is the media bitched and moaned all summer about not having access and didnt even call out Thibs on his BS..
This.
Why are we always playing the same teams out there and not exploiting other teams. If they go small, you can get the rebounding you need from Obi/Randle. If a guy is having an off night, you can take him out.
That's why I don't like it when people talk about closing lineups and stuff. We have like 11 players on the roster with unique talents that could all play roles on this team. Be creative and mix and match lineups.
Quote:
concern is that Thibs doesn't seem particularly willing to adjust on the fly. Are there poor matchups for Randle/Obi together? Of course. Are there teams/lineups where their flaws are less of an issue? Yup. What's the path to Obi ever playing 24-25 minutes per night let alone more? IQ and Obi finished strong, what's their reward or earned opportunity? For IQ likely less minutes, Obi... more of the same. Why not Believe in your ability to scheme/play mismatches when they arise vs. closing the door?
This.
Why are we always playing the same teams out there and not exploiting other teams. If they go small, you can get the rebounding you need from Obi/Randle. If a guy is having an off night, you can take him out.
That's why I don't like it when people talk about closing lineups and stuff. We have like 11 players on the roster with unique talents that could all play roles on this team. Be creative and mix and match lineups.
Its crazy because the Knicks should be a handful to scheme against because of all the different combinations to throw out there and they just stick to the same tired rotation and a big man..
Imagine a team trying to go small against the Knicks and the Knicks counter with Randle and Obi and force a smaller player to guard Randle in the post?
You match the speed of a small team and still play with size
He's currently hammering home that the thing that Thibs doesn't like about Obi is his rebounding. If he can get on the boards, he'll get more playing time and saying "you don't always have to leak out".
This is pretty frustrating if true. You have a coach who ALWAYS wants a center on the floor for rim protection and rebounding. Can't the center and guards rebound and a guy who excels at running the floor and getting easy baskets do that? Just reeks of trying to force a player into a role instead of adjusting lineups to accentuate talent.
@TommyBeer
·
1h
The two-man lineup of Julius Randle and Obi Toppin posted a POSITIVE Net Rating of +3.7 last season.
The two-man lineup of Randle and Mitch Robinson posted a NEGATIVE Net Rating of -3.6 last season.
what the heck happened to him?
Link - ( New Window )
@ericgonzo1208
·
1m
Voice of the @NBA
and @nyknicks
Mike Breen lost his home in a fire on Sunday!! Praying for him and his family! Happy to hear he’s safe! A legend. #Knicks #NBA
Quote:
Grimes is in a walking boot
what the heck happened to him?
Nobody knows because the beat writers are terrible
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In comment 15836745 nygiants16 said:
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Grimes is in a walking boot
what the heck happened to him?
Nobody knows because the beat writers are terrible
“Minor foot soreness” per Begley
Brunson, Fournier, RJ, Randle and Mitch
And a bench of Hartenstein, Rose, Grimes, Obi, and Cam.
So there is no pressing need to make changes.
Obviously it kills development and hurts the team long term but Thibs is all about winning games and Rose is a big Thibs fan and friend.
I don't think Dolan cares anymore about a championship and just wants to cash checks and not deal with the nonsense. Rose makes it easy.
He is probably still better than Fournier defensively
Brunson, Fournier, RJ, Randle and Mitch
And a bench of Hartenstein, Rose, Grimes, Obi, and Cam.
So there is no pressing need to make changes.
Obviously it kills development and hurts the team long term but Thibs is all about winning games and Rose is a big Thibs fan and friend.
I don't think Dolan cares anymore about a championship and just wants to cash checks and not deal with the nonsense. Rose makes it easy.
I disagree, Larry. Knicks start off badly, Thibs is gone. He is skating on thin ice
“I’m still figuring that out. That’s actually a really good question,” Reddish said. “I’m still figuring that out, trying to find my role where I fit in. I’m really willing to do whatever it takes to win. Whatever that role is, whatever it may be, that’s fine with me. We’re winning, we all look good.”
Speaking to media for the first time since The Post reported he wants a change of scenery to a team with which he can seek a larger role, Reddish artfully sidestepped the premise by denying he had requested a trade. Asked whether he wants to stay in New York given the realities of the Knicks’ rotation and his lack of a clear role, Reddish gave a nonanswer.
“I control what I can control,” he said. “So minutes and all that stuff have nothing to do with me. I just come in and do my job. Work as hard as I can every single day. I’m available, I’m healthy. So whatever happens, happens.”
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
just because the replacement sucks doesnt mean the predecesor didnt deserve to be fired..
Woodson did not deserve to be fired, he is about the only one..
Coughlin was done when he got fired
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
Quote:
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
just because the replacement sucks doesnt mean the predecesor didnt deserve to be fired..
Woodson did not deserve to be fired, he is about the only one..
Coughlin was done when he got fired
Agree on both Woodson and Coughlin. Woodson was unfairly terminated because Phil Jackson wanted his own guy. Coughlin's tenure had run it's course. It happens. They won 19 games his final 3 seasons and missed the playoffs his final 4 seasons.
Quote:
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
– via Westchester Knicks
Quote:
In comment 15837628 djm said:
Quote:
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
You don’t keep a coach simply because his replacement may end up being worse. And defending him at every turn because you’re afraid his replacement may be worse is just as lame. Unless of course you’re perfectly content with mediocrity because you’re too afraid of the risk of change, which seems to be the case with you. The next guy may suck. That doesn’t make current man the best man for the job
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In comment 15837636 DanMetroMan said:
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In comment 15837628 djm said:
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defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
You don’t keep a coach simply because his replacement may end up being worse. And defending him at every turn because you’re afraid his replacement may be worse is just as lame. Unless of course you’re perfectly content with mediocrity because you’re too afraid of the risk of change, which seems to be the case with you. The next guy may suck. That doesn’t make current man the best man for the job
I am defending him because I think he's a good coach. I don't want to hire a bad coach here. He's underrated here in my view.
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In comment 15837672 djm said:
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In comment 15837636 DanMetroMan said:
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In comment 15837628 djm said:
Quote:
defended Woodson (and was here when people waxed poetic about his coaching tenure with NYK) and I will defend Thibs. I only pray I am not saying I told you so if/when his replacement sucks ass and doesn't get this team to play hard on defense, more often than not.
If they win Thibs won't be fired so what exactly would be the "I told you so"? Not being sarcastic here.
If they hire someone worse than Thibs. Just like NYG did with Coughlin/McAdoo and so on. Same with Woodson and whoever the hell replaced him. The new guy isn't always better and that's a brutally bad slippery slope that can literally set a franchise back 5 years.
I do think this regime would do a better job in hiring the right HC, but I am still a little leery of who they would bring in and why wouldn't I be. Thibs is by far the best HC this team has had in years, shortcomings and all.
You don’t keep a coach simply because his replacement may end up being worse. And defending him at every turn because you’re afraid his replacement may be worse is just as lame. Unless of course you’re perfectly content with mediocrity because you’re too afraid of the risk of change, which seems to be the case with you. The next guy may suck. That doesn’t make current man the best man for the job
I am defending him because I think he's a good coach. I don't want to hire a bad coach here. He's underrated here in my view.
He is a good coach who is stubborn and not a fit for the future of this team
Feel free to blame the front office if you’d like, it’s perfectly reasonable. But either way the roster constructed is the opposite, skill/style wise, of what Thibs works with best. And he’s proven too stubborn and/or incapable of adjusting to the players’ skillsets to maximize their capabilities
That's why it was very predictable that this front office isn't going to mandate Thibs make changes to the rotation at any point. If they do, it's harder for him to take the fall for their roster construction.
We didn't like seeing so much Burks but he did what he thought was best after Kemba was clearly cooked and Rose got hurt. This year, we won't have that happen because the roster is better and PG should be a LOT deeper and IQ showed he can get the job done.
We don't like Randle over Obi but Randle is also their best player and the best player gets a long run to straighten himself out. Maybe he does this year.
He may not give the kids a lot of minutes but they have developed under him and gotten better each year and as each season has gone along. He gave the young guys run down the stretch. He should also get some credit for that.
This is the deepest Knicks team I've followed. But it lacks star players and so we'll lose some games because of it. And when we do and we are pissed off about it, the guys on the bench are going to look much better to us than the guys that just lost.
We didn't like seeing so much Burks but he did what he thought was best after Kemba was clearly cooked and Rose got hurt. This year, we won't have that happen because the roster is better and PG should be a LOT deeper and IQ showed he can get the job done.
We don't like Randle over Obi but Randle is also their best player and the best player gets a long run to straighten himself out. Maybe he does this year.
He may not give the kids a lot of minutes but they have developed under him and gotten better each year and as each season has gone along. He gave the young guys run down the stretch. He should also get some credit for that.
This is the deepest Knicks team I've followed. But it lacks star players and so we'll lose some games because of it. And when we do and we are pissed off about it, the guys on the bench are going to look much better to us than the guys that just lost.
I agree with SOME of your points. Like Thibs definitely deserves credit for developing the kids and putting them in a situation to succeed. He's really good at the things he's really good at. Coaching team defense, making sure the young guys are accountable, Team preparation and film study.
But, some of the stuff you said is worse than you made it out to be. Sure, we didn't have a PG with Rose and Kemba being hurt and sucking last year. But you can't give Burks 36 minutes down the stretch. Even after we're elimiated from playoff contention, he got more minutes that Quickley and McBride. They only made Julius sit for the last 5 games.
Also, I think the biggest thing is if he was really interested in winning, he would recognize that some of these younger players are more effective in their minutes than their vet counterparts and yet he still insists on these rotation patterns that favor what he thinks SHOULD work the best.
But last year it was terrible, it was stubborn and lacked any willingness to try anything different because he had to play his guys and that was it.
There is example after example of him costing the team games because of his stubborness and need to have Burks and Randle cllse games..It cost them at minimum 5 games last year..
He is a good coach who is not a fit for this team, this team actually can have some fun lineups, will we see them? absolutely not. Mitch or Hartenstein will play the entire 48 at the 5, Randle and Toppin will play the entire 48 at the 4..He is to rigid and that wont change..
Last year was proof he will never change
I mean there has to be one of us that defends Thibs right? IT's boring otherwise, lol.
Go Knicks.
@sny_knicks
"It's not only the numbers, I actually watch the games"
Tom Thibodeau argues that blowouts last year skewed the statistics of the Obi Toppin-Julius Randle pairing:
@sny_knicks
"It's not only the numbers, I actually watch the games"
Tom Thibodeau argues that blowouts last year skewed the statistics of the Obi Toppin-Julius Randle pairing:
Thibs should just go up there and say "i am a stubborn coach who needs to stick with a shot blocker at all times"
It would probably make it easier on the fan base to understand.
That's his basic attitude towards everything everyone else say in regards to minutes, starters, plays, stats, etc.
It's obvious he answers to no one which had overwhelming success in Minnesota.
Just fire this clown already, I didn't want him when we hired him and he has done exactly what I expected.
Average wins: 41.5
The Knicks are atop a crowded pack of contenders for spots in the play-in tournament after adding Jalen Brunson in free agency. Additionally, New York should benefit from the pull of regression following a dramatic defensive decline in Tom Thibodeau's second season at the helm.
Link - ( New Window )
@sny_knicks
"It's not only the numbers, I actually watch the games"
Tom Thibodeau argues that blowouts last year skewed the statistics of the Obi Toppin-Julius Randle pairing:
Could really do without the “I’m an NBA coach and you’re all nobodies so don’t question me” bullshit from Thibs. He said something similar last season in regards to watching the games more than them.
How about you just answer the question? “I actually watch the games” accomplishes what, exactly? Arrogant fuck.
But I'll say this,I'm surprised Thibodeau gets blamed for some things,such as Randle. He was doing whatever he wanted long before he got here.
I think Knick decisions,like Giants decisions,are often based on internal politics.
Not surprising at all but let's see him stay healthy for 82 games. The talent is obvious.