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NFT: Knicks Chat: Fournier the favorite to start at the 2

DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 12:35 pm
Directly from Thibs mouth
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And here we go  
robbieballs2003 : 9/27/2022 12:37 pm : link
.
Some things never change.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/27/2022 12:38 pm : link
Good season Knicks.
what the fuck was the point of keeping Grimes then  
guitarguybs12 : 9/27/2022 12:38 pm : link
what an asshole
Oh for fucks sake Thibs  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:38 pm : link
you need shooting? Doesnt Grimes provide shooting and defense? you know the thing you hang your hat on?

really?
Gonna get ugly  
bceagle05 : 9/27/2022 12:42 pm : link
if Fournier and Randle are playing 30-35 minutes. We'll get a heavy dose of Derrick Rose too, as Thibs challenged him to come into camp in the best shape of his career. Doesn't leave many opportunities for Grimes, Obi and IQ - ya know, that "great young core" that Leon told Hahn he loves so much.
if Grimes is that good (or even just healthy)  
djm : 9/27/2022 12:45 pm : link
he will play more minutes than Fournier. Watch.
RE: Gonna get ugly  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15835060 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
if Fournier and Randle are playing 30-35 minutes. We'll get a heavy dose of Derrick Rose too, as Thibs challenged him to come into camp in the best shape of his career. Doesn't leave many opportunities for Grimes, Obi and IQ - ya know, that "great young core" that Leon told Hahn he loves so much.


the Fire Thibs chants are going to start early especially if the team starts slow..

I see people on twitter saying well he cant come right out and say Grimes is the starter, why not? and when has Thibs ever adjusted? last year he didnt adjust the minutes until it was to late..

The year before he never adjusted
So when does the first article with WWW  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
anonymously attacking Thibs come out?
Brutal  
widmerseyebrow : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
Hopefully Leon trades these guys out from under him until we get an ideal starting lineup but my hopes are not high. There is just no synergy between front office and coach.
RE: if Grimes is that good (or even just healthy)  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15835069 djm said:
Quote:
he will play more minutes than Fournier. Watch.


have you seen Thibs coached teams?
Not  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 12:46 pm : link
particularly interested in a long Grimes/Fournier debut but Thibs 1. Claimed this season was a clean slate... 1 practice in he's making this declaration 2. He cited the need for shooting in the starting lineup... Grimes 38% from 3 as a rookie, 40% as a Junior at Houston and 44% from 3 over 6 starts. Fournier is obviously a very good shooter but c'mon lol
Might as well just traded obi and grimes for DM  
BigBlueDawg56 : 9/27/2022 12:47 pm : link
Those 2 with the picks woulda got it done. Thibs won’t play either one as long as Randle and Fournier is around which is at least 2 years cause no one wants either one of em
RE: Not  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15835084 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
particularly interested in a long Grimes/Fournier debut but Thibs 1. Claimed this season was a clean slate... 1 practice in he's making this declaration 2. He cited the need for shooting in the starting lineup... Grimes 38% from 3 as a rookie, 40% as a Junior at Houston and 44% from 3 over 6 starts. Fournier is obviously a very good shooter but c'mon lol


up next will be Randle playong 35 minutes a night
From last season...  
Jan in DC : 9/27/2022 12:52 pm : link
they tried to do a bunch of pick and roll stuff with Randle and Fournier, dribble handoffs, etc. I don't think it worked particularly well.

I really think that Fournier should play. He's our best shooter and I think there's definitely a role for him on the team, but I'd rather see what he can do with the second unit.

We all know Thibs substitutes in hockey shifts anyways, so it'd be better to see him run with Obi and Quick and those guys.
If Fournier and Grimes  
Carl in CT : 9/27/2022 12:53 pm : link
Eat up the#2 guard minutes and you are playing Rose behind Brunson, where the hell is IQ in this equation. Reddish behind RJB Toppin behind Randle and Hart behind Robinson. Iq and Sims I guess wait for injuries? I’m not a fan of this at all.
See I don't get too carried away with Fournier starting  
Stu11 : 9/27/2022 12:53 pm : link
Because when he's not shooting well Thibs takes him out. When he is, he's the best shooter on the team. It's not like Randle where he plays no matter what. Grimes will get his minutes. Take a chill guys.
Obi, grimes and  
Carl in CT : 9/27/2022 12:55 pm : link
IQ. I want Grimes at the 2 with IQ backing up. I don’t want Fournier on the roster.
This has been expected all along  
larryflower37 : 9/27/2022 12:55 pm : link
This is Thibs and he makes no apologies, Rose knew this when he hired him.
Randle will get 38 minutes a night and Fournier 34.
You know i was saying to myself this morning  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:56 pm : link
how i am excited for this season and the young players this team has and i feel like with this it is just going to be the same as last year..

Starters play like trash, Obi, Iq and Grimes comes in, brings the team back and then Thibs takes them for the starters for no reason and the Knicks lose rinse and repeat..

I can already see the rotation with Thibs hockey shifts and Obi and iq playing 10 minutes a game
RE: See I don't get too carried away with Fournier starting  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15835117 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Because when he's not shooting well Thibs takes him out. When he is, he's the best shooter on the team. It's not like Randle where he plays no matter what. Grimes will get his minutes. Take a chill guys.


and how will grimes get his minutes with iq and rose?
It  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 12:58 pm : link
does seem like something has to give with Rose/IQ... how does IQ play decent minutes with Brunson playing a full workload, Fournier and Grimes at the 2?
.  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 12:59 pm : link
Knicks Videos
@sny_knicks
How can Tom Thibodeau best utilize both Obi Toppin and Julius Randle?

"It's based on performance, who fits best together. It's not fantasy basketball, it's what makes the group work best."
RE: RE: See I don't get too carried away with Fournier starting  
larryflower37 : 9/27/2022 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15835142 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15835117 Stu11 said:


Quote:


Because when he's not shooting well Thibs takes him out. When he is, he's the best shooter on the team. It's not like Randle where he plays no matter what. Grimes will get his minutes. Take a chill guys.



and how will grimes get his minutes with iq and rose?

He is going to put Grimes next to Rose and Quickley won't get minutes
Grimes will probably play the 3 when RJ is out  
robbieballs2003 : 9/27/2022 1:00 pm : link
But, still, it isn't going to be much of a difference.
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15835159 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Knicks Videos
@sny_knicks
How can Tom Thibodeau best utilize both Obi Toppin and Julius Randle?

"It's based on performance, who fits best together. It's not fantasy basketball, it's what makes the group work best."


Yes because this is how you coachdd last year, if you think Randle fits best then we got major issues
Even if Fournier plays 28 to 30 minutes a night  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 1:03 pm : link
Brunson is playing 35 and Rj is playing 35 to 38..

13 at the back up point, 10 to 13 at the backup 3 and 18 to 20 at the back up 2..

This is how you develop guys?
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 1:03 pm : link
genuinely curious to those who are more optimistic about Thibs rotations than I am... assuming Brunson and RJB play heavy, heavy minutes at the 1 and 3...

Fournier/Grimes are the "1st and 2nd 2's"... Derrick Rose and IQ... how is that going to work itself out? I can't imagine Thibs relegating Derrick Rose to 3rd PG or 4th 2 guard...so IQ/Rose... should be interesting.
Not surprising, lol.  
Optimus-NY : 9/27/2022 1:06 pm : link
What's even more surprising is that Taj Gibson isn't back. He'd be playing 20-35 minutes a night at PF & C.
Thibs is nothing but at least transparent  
larryflower37 : 9/27/2022 1:12 pm : link
Everyone on here has said this all along and know one should be surprised at this point.
If Leon doesn't control the roster Thibs will be Thibs. WWW wanted him gone for this reason. This falls on the lap of Rose and his lack of balls to make a deal and control Thibs.
Randle, Rose and Fournier need to go or fire Thibs and put someone in that wants to develop the kids.
The clock is ticking on OBI,Cam, Grimes and IQ they are going to leave for nothing especially since he doesn't have the balls to trade them either.
The hardest part is there is so much potential on this roster it's just being mismanaged at this point.
Listen i have come to grips that Randle is going to start  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 1:18 pm : link
and if he plays the way he said he was going to yesterday and sacrifice than ok, BUT Obi should still get 25 minutes a night, its just that simple..

I like Fournier but he is just not a fit for this team him starting is doing a disservice to this team..

Grimes should start, iq and Rose backing up him and Brunson..
RE: Listen i have come to grips that Randle is going to start  
larryflower37 : 9/27/2022 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15835237 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and if he plays the way he said he was going to yesterday and sacrifice than ok, BUT Obi should still get 25 minutes a night, its just that simple..

I like Fournier but he is just not a fit for this team him starting is doing a disservice to this team..

Grimes should start, iq and Rose backing up him and Brunson..

Yep and saying it over and over again is not going to change the direction this FO and Thibs are going.
FO and coach need to change to make that reality
I pray Brunson  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/27/2022 1:23 pm : link
outperforms his contract. Typical Knicks fashion he would just flop here on the Knicks and we're stuck paying all of that money.
RE: I pray Brunson  
larryflower37 : 9/27/2022 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15835249 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
outperforms his contract. Typical Knicks fashion he would just flop here on the Knicks and we're stuck paying all of that money.

The expectations are too high for him, he will be a good player but everyone is expecting what he did at the end of the year and playoffs.
.  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 1:44 pm : link
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
20m
Isaiah Hartenstein says most Knicks have been working out together for a month prior to camp. When asked about it, Hartenstein said he’s gotten a chance to develop chemistry w/all players during workouts, cited playing regularly w/Jalen Brunson, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2022 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15835321 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
20m
Isaiah Hartenstein says most Knicks have been working out together for a month prior to camp. When asked about it, Hartenstein said he’s gotten a chance to develop chemistry w/all players during workouts, cited playing regularly w/Jalen Brunson, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin


I can really see our Bench being really good for the 10 minutes they are on the court together
Jay Wright  
Earl the goat : 9/27/2022 2:02 pm : link
Will be the new coach for the 23-24 season
So it's Fournier's job to lose, or,  
81_Great_Dane : 9/27/2022 2:29 pm : link
Grimes has to take it from him. That's to be expected. Fournier's the veteran (sigh). His shooting should help open up the floor for Randle and Barrett. Yes?

If Fournier isn't starting, he and Rose seems like a good backcourt to me — even if Rose's minutes have to be limited. IQ remains an awkward fit with Fournier, IMO, since IQ's not exactly a point guard.

All that said, Thibs also has said he loves Grimes. So I expect Grimes will get an opportunity to win the job. But he's starting lower on the depth chart.

The funny thing is, a starting five that includes Brunson, Grimes, Toppin and Barrett makes sense to me, because it seems pretty balanced and those guys have complementary skills. Meanwhile a second unit that includes Fournier, IQ/Rose and Randle makes some sense to me because Randle wants to handle the ball, and again, those guys have complementary skills. But Randle on the second unit isn't in the cards, so...

I wish they'd package Fournier and/or Randle with some picks in a trade. The Fournier signing made sense when the Knicks seemed to be ahead of schedule. Now that they're back to being a construction project, I don't think it makes sense to keep him.
How can you have a clean slate  
Jan in DC : 9/27/2022 2:30 pm : link
and have someone be the favorite? This is confusing.
I am vastly more optimistic than the typical BBIer...  
manh george : 9/27/2022 2:42 pm : link
that the Knicks rotation will be fixed pretty quickly (and Quickley).

First, Thibideau is certainly a stubborn sonofabitch, but he also understands self-preservation. Everyone from the popcorn vendors to GM Rose knows that there are two main strategic structures for the Knicks:
1)Mostly play the vets and give the young talent minor minutes, or
2) Go aggressively to the young talent in the hope that they can improve dramatically and show real dominance against a lot of teams.

Strategy 1 has an a) and b): a) If Randall responds dramatically to having Brunson run the team, he could dominate again. Meanwhile, the word is that Rose is in FABULOUS shape. If both of those things are true, then Fournier only holds the starting slot as long as his shooting is strong enough to offset his low-mediocre defense. Then, the young talent would have to be slotted in, and if all of this works, the Knicks would be a good team. And, any of the veterans who cracks would be replaced as a starter, or see minutes cut sharply.
b) If Randall mostly sucks, Toppin gets a lot more minutes, quickly.

So, how would we get to (2)? Simple. Rose KNOWS that the young talent can only improve by getting more time. Thibideau knows that he knows. Would Thibideau remain stubborn with the three key veterans not working out, or the top three young players showing accelerated potential, for this year and for the future?

I simply cannot believe that Thibideau is that stupid along with that stubborn. Thibs optimizes the talent he has available, or he is gone. And, of course, Thibs loves two-way players. Quickley and Grimes are both that. Fournier and Randall aren't. Toppin has defensive weaknesses, but with one huge strength: the opposition PF would have to chase him all over the gym. That would diminish his capacity to beat up on Toppin. And, Toppin's d is improving, and will continue to.

Bottom line for Thibs: win and develop the youth, or be gone and have someone else develop the youth. And if the Knicks suck in a lot of first quarters, as they did for much of last year, Rose will quickly pound on Thibs to start making changes.



Hahn on KnicksFanTV tonight at 9pm  
bceagle05 : 9/27/2022 4:19 pm : link
Annual visit for a season preview.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 9/27/2022 5:11 pm : link
If Leon Rose believes in the “young core” as much as fans are led to believe, he can’t have this roster constructed the way it is. You can’t expect Thibs to bench Randle, it will cause a mutiny in that locker room.

And I know everyone thinks Grimes is the next Klay, but at this moment is he definitely better than Fournier? Fournier had a decent season he just kills you on defense. Grimes has a ton to prove just like the rest of the young players.

And DRose is going to play if healthy.

If Leon Rose wanted to go with a true youth movement, 2 and probably all 3 of those guys shouldn’t be on the team. But Leon Rose doesn’t know what he’s doing or what direction this franchise is heading. But he wants a parade thrown for him and his staff for their drafts who have yet to produce a legit proven nba starter thus far.
.  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 5:27 pm : link
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
4m
With Knicks training camp roster currently at 19, it’s worth noting that NYK has been hoping to reduce guard Jean Montero’s buyout with overseas club Grand Canaria. Montero impressed NYK & other clubs during Summer League. Teams can carry max of 20 players during training camp.
.  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 5:30 pm : link
Odd. Already have Brunson/Fournier/Grimes/Rose/IQ + Deuce (who likely won't see any time)+ Arcidiacono and Svi. You'd think Montero staying with Gran Canaria ala Rokas would make more sense for his development.
Starting doesn’t mean  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 6:12 pm : link
He’ll play more minutes than Grimes. Or even start the full year. Let’s see how it plays out
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/27/2022 6:38 pm : link
Same old, same old. I expect JR to get a ton of minutes @ Obi's expense too. One can hope Thibs is shown the door midseason.
RE: Starting doesn’t mean  
DanMetroMan : 9/27/2022 8:36 pm : link
In comment 15835766 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
He’ll play more minutes than Grimes. Or even start the full year. Let’s see how it plays out


In theory, yes Grimes could still play more… BUT Thibs cited Fournier’s fit with the starters aka players who will be out there for 30+ per night so if the fit is what he likes…
RE: RE: Starting doesn’t mean  
robbieballs2003 : 9/27/2022 8:49 pm : link
In comment 15835974 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15835766 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


He’ll play more minutes than Grimes. Or even start the full year. Let’s see how it plays out



In theory, yes Grimes could still play more… BUT Thibs cited Fournier’s fit with the starters aka players who will be out there for 30+ per night so if the fit is what he likes…


After seeing Burks play most of the years with the starters gives me no faith that Thibs gets this right. And I like Burks but no way in hell he should have played as much as he did.
Just look at the +/- last year of the starters vs. the bench guys.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/27/2022 8:51 pm : link
How can anybody support Thibs' claim that he knows what the best lineups are? He never mixes and matches to find out.
Any Chance Rokas Comes stateside this year?  
LTIsTheGreatest : 9/28/2022 9:15 am : link
Or is he definitley resigned to another year in Europe?
I have a feeling  
Enzo : 9/28/2022 9:22 am : link
Johnnie Bryant is coaching this team by MLK day.
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