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The Daniel Jones Truth Thread

Mike from Ohio : 9/27/2022 12:39 pm
Is this a baseline at least the majority of us can agree on?

1) He plays hard and tough and is giving everything he has to this team.

2) He can make plays with his legs and is good when he tucks it and runs.

3) When he has time and is in rhythm he can make some very nice throws downfield.

4) When his first read is not open, Jones struggles to make second and third reads.

5) He holds the ball too long and often does not feel the pressure around him in the pocket.

6) He will likely not get a second contract with the Giants.

7) He will likely sign somewhere else as a bridge/competition guy or high end backup.

I am accused of being a Jones basher, but I think this is a pretty middle-of-the road take on the guy.
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RE: RE: Jones = JAG  
RHPeel : 9/27/2022 2:13 pm : link
In comment 15835389 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15835295 JonC said:


Quote:


If there's no better option in 2023, there probably won't be a better season from the QB position. Based on three seasons plus three games, I remain in the column of wanting to hit eject.

If Jomes had been the reason we won last night, THAT would have moved the needle.

He was JAG, again.


Agreed. If the Giants had somehow gone the length of the field and won the game in the final seconds last night, I might have a different perspective this morning. And the end of the drive was not his fault.

But fair's got nothing to do with it, as they say.
He’s ok.  
AcesUp : 9/27/2022 2:13 pm : link
You’re not winning with ok at the position in 2022 unless you have the best roster in football, top coaching and good luck. QB is the biggest differentiator in sports, you need more than ok.

OP nailed it and I agree on all accounts. I don’t understand the nitpicking of every mistake or those holding out hope that he’ll be more than he is. We know what Jones is at this point.
is there anyone advocating  
LG in NYC : 9/27/2022 2:14 pm : link
Giants should sign DJ to a long term contract? or that he should have been taken #6?

it seems to me some here are arguing against ghosts.

he is 99% gone after this season. that is almost irrefutable, and I support it.

but for anyone who can't even acknowledge he has been put in a less than ideal situation or want to blame him for everything (like end of game INT's despite visual evidence to the contrary) aren't worth the time to have a discussion with.
RE: RE: Jones  
clatterbuck : 9/27/2022 2:28 pm : link
In comment 15835152 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15835145 noro9 said:


Quote:


May be looking forward to a new start with a different organization that has their shit together. Not defending him but the amount of change and lack of support via quality players around him, would make it difficult for anyone to succeed



Nonsense. Great players persevere over adversity.


First,Jones did persevere. He and Barkley kept the Giants in the game. Second, give me the name of the QB that would have won the game last night with the same O line, the same amount of pressure, and same caliber WRs/TEs.
You do realize  
Atari2600 : 9/27/2022 2:29 pm : link
Unless you are a really good QB that happens to slip into the later rounds ; chances are you are going to some shitty team on the verge of a rebuild right?
RE: RE: I think he's good  
Coopcomic : 9/27/2022 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15835147 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15835115 Coopcomic said:


Quote:


But I also trust the current regime knows what they're doing. I thought it was right not to extend the contract, but I see him improving under constant fire. Fumbling seems to have disappeared. The decisions were good (generally), and he's as competitive as you can want. This is not Dave Brown. The guy has talent. But before chucking a guy - I need to know the alternative. Because BBI seems to think that it's Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers or bust. Would you want Russell Wilson now?



There’s a better chance Wilson returns to his old form at some point this season than Jones performing like prime Wilson, though


Ok, fair point...but Jones is improving, Wilson may be permanently declining. The issue is whether Jones has reached his ceiling, and I still think we don't know - but he's improved IMO. And the other issue is what you're giving up to find out. Signing Jones to one more year vs. trading the farm.
You don’t give QBs  
Sammo85 : 9/27/2022 2:37 pm : link
like Daniel Jones a lot of money or big contract.
RE: I thought Colin Cowherd nailed it today  
RetroJint : 9/27/2022 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15835214 Sean said:
Quote:
Jones doesn’t produce enough. Not enough TD’s. If a QB needs everything *perfect* around him to succeed, that’s a backup QB. Look at Cooper Rush.

If the Giants are going to give Jones a new contract, he needs to be looked at against guys like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. Allen has overcome a bad OL and no running game. Jackson has overcome losing his best WR and LT. Burrow overcame an awful OL last year.

Jones doesn’t produce enough and there will be cheaper options next year with no drop off in production.

How about Brady & Rodgers Sunday ? Did they do much better than Jones ?
RE: RE: I thought Colin Cowherd nailed it today  
Greg from LI : 9/27/2022 2:42 pm : link
In comment 15835446 RetroJint said:
Quote:
How about Brady & Rodgers Sunday ? Did they do much better than Jones ?


Well, let's see - for starters, those two have a bit more of a track record than Jones. For another thing, Tom Brady is 45 years old and Aaron Rodgers is 38 years old.
Jones gets an A for effort that's for sure. Give him plenty of credit  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 2:43 pm : link
for doing his best out there last night.

But his best just doesn't do it for me.

Time to move towards a different path at QB this next offseason...
He's a bona-fide back up QB  
Simms11 : 9/27/2022 2:57 pm : link
in this league, a #2. I think, on better situations, he might show that he's capable and might get a contract to start even, but it's nit happening here. That said, I can't imagine a rookie QB behind that line! Talk about killing confidence!
Call me crazy  
Danny L : 9/27/2022 3:00 pm : link
but i think he is playing better then last yr.

But talent around him is so sub par makes it hard to know what really goes on

and no qb with this shitty protection last night would have success, doesnt really mater who u put in behind center
RE: Greeny summed it up best this morning...  
GRBlue : 9/27/2022 3:44 pm : link
In comment 15835057 guitarguybs12 said:
Quote:
. Organizational Failure Re: Daniel Jones - ( New Window )


BUMP. Best thing I've heard.
Jones was not worth the number 6 pick  
Rjanyg : 9/27/2022 3:56 pm : link
I wanted Josh Allen and I was speechless when they selected Jones.

But we all need to understand something. This guys 2 best receivers at getting separation are not on the field in Toney and Robinson. Shepard was our best WR and now he is done. We have a rookie RT who is still learning the footwork for the position and a rebuilt OL.

He has 3 turnovers in 3 games and 2 of them aren't his fault. He is improving but right now he cannot make up for the weaknesses on this team and carry them on his back, although he tried real hard last night.

Jones is here for this year. We really need to let this play out and see how it ends. He may surprise you, especially if we can get some production out of the WR's siting on the sideline.

Mike from Ohio  
Milton : 9/27/2022 3:57 pm : link
I have no idea what the majority of BBI can agree on, but my answer to your quesiton is: No, that's not a baseline I agree with. Am I in the majority? I couldn't care less. Who gives a shit what the majority of BBI thinks...
Not a Jones basher  
Gman11 : 9/27/2022 3:59 pm : link
but

Quote:
4) When his first read is not open, Jones struggles to make second and third reads.

5) He holds the ball too long and often does not feel the pressure around him in the pocket.


If he's holding the ball too long what do you think he's doing back there, ordering Chinese take-out?
What Greenberg said this morning is not new  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 4:16 pm : link
Many of us have been saying it for the last few years
RE: What Greenberg said this morning is not new  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 4:52 pm : link
In comment 15835636 Snablats said:
Quote:
Many of us have been saying it for the last few years


Show us a post of you saying at anytime before this year...
I wasn't posting on here for 8 years until this year  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 5:23 pm : link
But it's all over my Twitter account. I've said for the last few years that the big mistake was not building around Jones and Barkley with a better offensive line and receivers. And yes I've said it since I got back on here well before the draft
Come on...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 5:25 pm : link
you know you can find a post or two from the last few years.
Yawn  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 6:16 pm : link
Hey LEH15, what's it like being suspended from a message board and then sneaking back under a dupe handle?
Hey, can't help you there. But throw down a simple post  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 6:25 pm : link
of what you have been posting regarding Jones for years.

We don't care if it's a different handle and it will prove you were right all along...
RE: Come on...  
christian : 9/27/2022 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15835735 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
you know you can find a post or two from the last few years.


Did you catch that? There's a Twitter. That's gotta be a hell of a ride.
RE: RE: RE: Jones = JAG  
Thegratefulhead : 9/27/2022 7:00 pm : link
In comment 15835403 RHPeel said:
Quote:
In comment 15835389 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 15835295 JonC said:


Quote:


If there's no better option in 2023, there probably won't be a better season from the QB position. Based on three seasons plus three games, I remain in the column of wanting to hit eject.

If Jomes had been the reason we won last night, THAT would have moved the needle.

He was JAG, again.



Agreed. If the Giants had somehow gone the length of the field and won the game in the final seconds last night, I might have a different perspective this morning. And the end of the drive was not his fault.

But fair's got nothing to do with it, as they say.
At some point you have to be judged on what actually happens.

Not what ifs.
I guess he’s just hating  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2022 7:15 pm : link
But Boomers opening remarks are interesting
Boomer - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Come on...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15835801 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15835735 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


you know you can find a post or two from the last few years.



Did you catch that? There's a Twitter. That's gotta be a hell of a ride.


St Albans used to post on here like it was Twitter...
Cowherd on Jones again  
Sean : 9/27/2022 7:56 pm : link
Quote:
Colin Cowherd
@ColinCowherd
NYG fans pointing fingers at the problems. Your QB isn’t talented enough to ever be the SOLUTION. Salary caps create imperfections. Elite QB’s overcome those. Why Mcvay moved off Goff. Wanted SOLUTIONS in critical situations when shit hit the fan — like 4Q vs Tampa. DJ isn’t it.
...  
christian : 9/27/2022 8:16 pm : link
In comment 15835865 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Did you catch that? There's a Twitter. That's gotta be a hell of a ride.

St Albans used to post on here like it was Twitter...


I've tried to place the handle or at least the ridiculousness of the posts, and I just don't remember someone like it!
RE: I guess he’s just hating  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/27/2022 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15835859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
But Boomers opening remarks are interesting Boomer - ( New Window )


He sounds senile...DeMarcus Ware??
Honest question if NYG got the pressure on Rush that Jones  
fredgbrown : 9/27/2022 8:32 pm : link
received and Jones received the blocking that Rush got I think without a doubt it would have been a Giants victory. As it was if the defense didn't fold like a cheap suit after Barkley's TD the ending would have been different that includes the specials which have been horrible given them a cheap 3 points.
RE: RE: RE: Come on...  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15835865 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15835801 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 15835735 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


you know you can find a post or two from the last few years.



Did you catch that? There's a Twitter. That's gotta be a hell of a ride.



St Albans used to post on here like it was Twitter...

Poor little dupe dumbass. Tell us LEH15, what did you do to get yourself suspended so you had to sneak back in here under your jimmy dumbass handle?
Can you make yourself any easier to identify?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 9:45 pm : link
chucklehead to the end...
RE: Can you make yourself any easier to identify?  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 10:14 pm : link
In comment 15836053 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
chucklehead to the end...

So go ahead and identify me, because I'm not a dupe. This has been my only handle here

And you never answer me LEH15, why did you get suspended so you had to sneak in under this new name?
RE: RE: Can you make yourself any easier to identify?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15836088 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15836053 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


chucklehead to the end...


So go ahead and identify me, because I'm not a dupe. This has been my only handle here

And you never answer me LEH15, why did you get suspended so you had to sneak in under this new name?


I certainly did answer you.

And you are St. Albans or Daehelkcuhc spelled backwards...either works.
Where? You have never answered me  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 11:07 pm : link
on why you were suspended from this site when you were posting as LEH15 and had to sneak back in under your current handle

You have never even ADMITTED it!
RE: Where? You have never answered me  
Jimmy Googs : 9/27/2022 11:12 pm : link
In comment 15836135 Snablats said:
Quote:
on why you were suspended from this site when you were posting as LEH15 and had to sneak back in under your current handle

You have never even ADMITTED it!


It’s right above chuckles. I said I can’t help you there. It’s not my handle...
RE: RE: Where? You have never answered me  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 11:28 pm : link
In comment 15836138 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15836135 Snablats said:


Quote:


on why you were suspended from this site when you were posting as LEH15 and had to sneak back in under your current handle

You have never even ADMITTED it!



It’s right above chuckles. I said I can’t help you there. It’s not my handle...

RE: RE: Where? You have never answered me  
Snablats : 9/27/2022 11:29 pm : link
In comment 15836138 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15836135 Snablats said:


Quote:


on why you were suspended from this site when you were posting as LEH15 and had to sneak back in under your current handle

You have never even ADMITTED it!



It’s right above chuckles. I said I can’t help you there. It’s not my handle...

Liar
Is that how you talk with all your Twitter buddies  
Jimmy Googs : 9/28/2022 8:07 am : link
too? Or just your old friends here for the last 8 years...
RE: Is that how you talk with all your Twitter buddies  
Snablats : 9/28/2022 9:28 am : link
In comment 15836208 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
too? Or just your old friends here for the last 8 years...

You are a liar and a dupe
I agree...  
Brown_Hornet : 9/28/2022 9:46 am : link
...with several points but wonder about #4.

Is his 2nd read open?
Was he flushed to the opposite side of the field from his #2?

Too many variables.

What I see is a player that is still trying not to lose.
I realize that when he was forced to step up that he likely saw that he could get a 1st down and didn't look to fit a ball downfield into a window. Jones needs to make a big play, he needs to take opportunities, ignore the peanut gallery and put the ball in the endzone.

With this team, he's going to be limited...but he has to take shots. He's got to be the reason the Giants win. Not Barkley, not the defense.
As Sy said in his writeup of the game  
Snablats : 9/28/2022 9:51 am : link
Jones is playing with JV WRs and a freshman team OL

Plus it was drilled into his head for the last 2 years to not take any chances, or shots down the field
RE: RE: In general there are 2 camps  
Maryland Blows : 9/28/2022 10:00 am : link
In comment 15835340 RHPeel said:
Quote:
In comment 15835066 Blue The Dog said:


Quote:


The 2 camps are more divided on how Jones should be evaluated than the evaluation itself at this point.

Camp A argues that because of the talent around him, you can't prove he sucks.

Camp B argues that because he hasn't played well, you can't prove he is good.

In the 4th year, it no longer matters if you can't prove he sucks. He needs to be demonstrably, consistently good



Yep. Time's up, basically. This is not the 80s, or even the early 00s. Cap rules + rookie contracts mean that the Giants can't wait for the roster to get better around Jones. Either Jones gets better this year, now, or the Giants move on. There's no viable middle ground.

He had a decent game last night under adversity. If that were year 2 I would have been all in. It's year 4; you need more than that.


If after watching Monday night and seeing what he had to do to make any plays you still think this kid sucks your all blind. some of the analysis on the sight is just God awful. When he is able to step up in the pocket and make a real throw let me know. Last ime that occurred was when Gates was the C. Hopefully he will be back after game 6 will not hold my breath though. DJ like any QB needs time. Take a look at Brady's stats this year. I believe he has no TD's in the 1st half, does he all of a sudden suck, is he not seeing his 2nd read? He is not mobile, his OL is playing like dog crap due to injuries along their OL.
Tom Brady has now entered the building.  
chick310 : 9/28/2022 10:13 am : link
Soon comes the situational comparisons of Jones to Rodgers, Herbert, Allen and Eli.
RE: RE: RE: In general there are 2 camps  
Scooter185 : 9/28/2022 10:20 am : link
In comment 15836313 Maryland Blows said:
Quote:
In comment 15835340 RHPeel said:


Quote:


In comment 15835066 Blue The Dog said:


Quote:


The 2 camps are more divided on how Jones should be evaluated than the evaluation itself at this point.

Camp A argues that because of the talent around him, you can't prove he sucks.

Camp B argues that because he hasn't played well, you can't prove he is good.

In the 4th year, it no longer matters if you can't prove he sucks. He needs to be demonstrably, consistently good



Yep. Time's up, basically. This is not the 80s, or even the early 00s. Cap rules + rookie contracts mean that the Giants can't wait for the roster to get better around Jones. Either Jones gets better this year, now, or the Giants move on. There's no viable middle ground.

He had a decent game last night under adversity. If that were year 2 I would have been all in. It's year 4; you need more than that.



If after watching Monday night and seeing what he had to do to make any plays you still think this kid sucks your all blind. some of the analysis on the sight is just God awful. When he is able to step up in the pocket and make a real throw let me know. Last ime that occurred was when Gates was the C. Hopefully he will be back after game 6 will not hold my breath though. DJ like any QB needs time. Take a look at Brady's stats this year. I believe he has no TD's in the 1st half, does he all of a sudden suck, is he not seeing his 2nd read? He is not mobile, his OL is playing like dog crap due to injuries along their OL.


Jones had a good game, I agree.

However at this point in his career it's the equivalent of having an empty gas tank and putting in $2 worth of gas. Didn't move the needle much
RE: Mike from Ohio  
Mike from Ohio : 9/28/2022 10:36 am : link
In comment 15835607 Milton said:
Quote:
I have no idea what the majority of BBI can agree on, but my answer to your quesiton is: No, that's not a baseline I agree with. Am I in the majority? I couldn't care less. Who gives a shit what the majority of BBI thinks...


Because finding common ground in a discussion is what humans try to do. Setting a baseline that everyone can agree to allows the conversation to become more nuanced and go beyond "he sucks" "oh yeah, you suck."

This board will always have the "I have an opinion and fuck you if you disagree with me" posters. This thread wasn't intended for them/you.
RE: Call me crazy but I’d draft a guy if possible  
jhibb : 9/28/2022 2:29 pm : link
In comment 15835368 eli4life said:
Quote:
And if Jones doesn’t get a shot elsewhere I’d take him as a backup


Yeah, I'm not sure why ever since the Giants didn't pick up the 5th year option, the narrative has been that they'd be left with only these three choices at the end of the year:
A) sign him to a big contract
B) use the franchise tag on him
C) let him go

Everyone seems to agree he's not worth a big contract right now, so who else would be offering him this big contract that would necessitate A or B if the Giants decide they'd like to keep him around? I wouldn't at all be surprised if it ended up as
D) let him shop himself around as a starter and then sign him to a reasonable contract when he finds nobody considers him worth a big contract.
RE: Jones  
xtian : 9/28/2022 2:43 pm : link
In comment 15835145 noro9 said:
Quote:
May be looking forward to a new start with a different organization that has their shit together. Not defending him but the amount of change and lack of support via quality players around him, would make it difficult for anyone to succeed

that and the asshole jones-hater fans. if you grew up in the area, you understand that critical over-the-top hyperbolic mentality, but if not, wtf would you want to put up with that sh*t?
keep jones until  
xtian : 9/28/2022 2:49 pm : link
you find someone better. maybe in next year's draft, but maybe not, maybe not for years.

after all, we won with hostetler who wasn't an all-pro or considered a top-10 QB. Jones certainly could develop into a top 10-15 QB.
RE: RE: Jones  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/28/2022 2:51 pm : link
In comment 15836701 xtian said:
Quote:
In comment 15835145 noro9 said:


Quote:


May be looking forward to a new start with a different organization that has their shit together. Not defending him but the amount of change and lack of support via quality players around him, would make it difficult for anyone to succeed


that and the asshole jones-hater fans. if you grew up in the area, you understand that critical over-the-top hyperbolic mentality, but if not, wtf would you want to put up with that sh*t?

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