The Daniel Jones Actual Truth Thread

That is a actual truth. Unless there is an injury or a monumental change in Jones' performance, one way or the other, he will have this year to show what he's got. Anyone who doesn't see that is deluding himself, IMO. That's why these constant critical threads are such a useless waste of time. Unless you just need to vent for your own mental health.

In comment 15835714 Ron Johnson said:

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In comment 15835697 Sean said: Quote: The 5th year option was not picked up, that is a huge indicator. 5th year options are almost always exercised when the team likes that player. Look at Evan Engram for example, even his was picked up. Do we? Daboll has praised Jones several times in the last 2 weeks. I don't think we know what they think.

They love you until they cut you, or let your contract expire, in this case.

Jones is not performing up to par, and it's not looking much better in 2022. Sorry, Milton, he gone.

In comment 15835759 Milton said:

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In comment 15835697 Sean said: Quote: The 5th year option was not picked up, that is a huge indicator. 5th year options are almost always exercised when the team likes that player. Look at Evan Engram for example, even his was picked up. You can't compare what the 5th year option costs for a QB drafted in the top ten vs a TE drafted in the 11 to 32 slots. Also, the consequences of the Browns and Jets picking up the options on Mayfield and Darnold (along with the recent jump in QB salaries) surely impacted the thinking around the league when it comes to the importance of a vote of confidence vs the reality of guaranteeing a $20M+ salary for an as yet unproven commodity. This isn't a binary "black or white" scenario where you either love or hate the QB. The Jones haters want to hang their hat on that decision, but it's a bogus point (especially given Jones's injury history). Jones has this year to prove himself to management. That's been the message we've gotten from Schoen and Daboll and there's no reason to believe (other than your own prejudices and insecurities) that they have been anything but honest in that regard.

Again with the “Jones hater” label. I want to see the Giants win and I’m worried they will double down on a QB who needs everything perfect to succeed.

Are you a “Coughlin hater”? I recall you always being critical of him while propping up Jim Fassel and Reese/Gettleman. See, the labels are ridiculous.

In comment 15835765 Jimmy Googs said:

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is a bogus point? If you are truly looking for an honest message from them, nothing else beats it...

How about the fact that he's the starting fucking QB? How about the fact that the only competition they brought in was a 33-year old obvious backup and passed on every single QB in the draft (and for some it was multiple times)? Apparently the message is only honest if it agrees with the narrative you've created in your head.

In comment 15835783 Sean said:

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Again with the “Jones hater” label. I want to see the Giants win and I’m worried they will double down on a QB who needs everything perfect to succeed.

You're right, poor choice of words on my part. I apologize.

Jones looked better than in past games, but this WHOLE year is for evaluation. Two average to below average performances, one good performance. Less about the outcome, more about the process. Daboll spoke about consistency and stringing good performances together. Consistency plays a large role in a starting caliber QB. Jones has never been that before, but I am eager to see how the rest of the season goes. Hopefully we have a difficult decision at the end of the season.

In comment 15835794 Milton said:

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In comment 15835765 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: is a bogus point? If you are truly looking for an honest message from them, nothing else beats it... How about the fact that he's the starting fucking QB? How about the fact that the only competition they brought in was a 33-year old obvious backup and passed on every single QB in the draft (and for some it was multiple times)? Apparently the message is only honest if it agrees with the narrative you've created in your head.

It's called rebuilding with little to no cap room while Jones is already paid for. And drafting without panicking to a weak 2022 QB class.

Man, what has happened to your posting on here?

in the pocket is really weak. He reacts so slowly or not at all to oncoming defenders. This caps his upside, and for me, is a "move on" situation. It's an important box to check and it seems he is never gonna check it.

What is Daboll supposed to tell the press? You think he's going to trash him to the press? Come on.

I’m just as guilty for it too. But, I think it boils down to two things:

Group A: Jones has not been given a fair shot because of 4 different OC’s and 3 different HC’s. The OL has limited what he can do. When he has time and weapons, he can be very good. The example here would be the game in New Orleans last year.

Group B: Jones is not good enough to elevate a team on his own like the elite QB’s. He does not produce enough with points/TD’s. He plays the game slow and turns the ball over too much.

I don’t think opinions will change. At 2-1, we’ll see how the rest of the season goes.

Sean, for every NOLA game from last year, there's two Rams games from last year.

In comment 15835811 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 15835794 Milton said: Quote: In comment 15835765 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: is a bogus point? If you are truly looking for an honest message from them, nothing else beats it... How about the fact that he's the starting fucking QB? How about the fact that the only competition they brought in was a 33-year old obvious backup and passed on every single QB in the draft (and for some it was multiple times)? Apparently the message is only honest if it agrees with the narrative you've created in your head. It's called rebuilding with little to no cap room while Jones is already paid for. And drafting without panicking to a weak 2022 QB class.

But that's my point. Regardless of your opinion, there is a narrative you can come up with to support it that is perfectly consistent with everything that Schoen and Daboll have done. There is no smoking gun for either side to point to that can't be refute by a perfectly reasonable argument. That's why I say none of us know what they're thinking. For the most part we just assume they see it exactly as we do and we translate every decision they make through that filter.

everything Schoen/Daboll are thinking with regards to Jones, that doesn't make it a strong argument.

A strong argument is using the logic related to passing on the 5th year option...

The two things that stick out to me: 1) declining his 5th year option & 2) neither Schoen or Daboll were here when he was drafted & thus should presumably have no stake in his long term future.

In comment 15835848 Jimmy Googs said:

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everything Schoen/Daboll are thinking with regards to Jones, that doesn't make it a strong argument. A strong argument is using the logic related to passing on the 5th year option...

Passing on the 5th year option only said that they hadn't seen enough from him from afar to extend him. But Jones had never played for Schoen/Daboll at that point. I believe Jones started this year with a clean slate and will be given every opportunity to prove that he is the answer. Or not.

In comment 15835848 Jimmy Googs said:

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everything Schoen/Daboll are thinking with regards to Jones, that doesn't make it a strong argument. A strong argument is using the logic related to passing on the 5th year option...

Passing on the 5th year option only said that they hadn't seen enough from him from afar to extend him. But Jones had never played for Schoen/Daboll at that point. I believe Jones started this year with a clean slate and will be given every opportunity to prove that he is the answer. Or not.

In comment 15835848 Jimmy Googs said:

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everything Schoen/Daboll are thinking with regards to Jones, that doesn't make it a strong argument. A strong argument is using the logic related to passing on the 5th year option...

The Browns and Jets picked up the options on Mayfield and Darnold and changed their minds about them one year later. The Rams and Niners went to Super Bowls with Goff and Garapallo, gave them tens of millions in guaranteed money, and then changed their minds about them. But according to you, Schoen is so sure of his ability to judge talent from a distance that not picking up Jones's 5th year option can only mean that he has conclusively decided that Jones is not in the team's 2023 plans.

In comment 15835856 Bill in UT said:

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In comment 15835848 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: everything Schoen/Daboll are thinking with regards to Jones, that doesn't make it a strong argument. A strong argument is using the logic related to passing on the 5th year option... Passing on the 5th year option only said that they hadn't seen enough from him from afar to extend him. But Jones had never played for Schoen/Daboll at that point. I believe Jones started this year with a clean slate and will be given every opportunity to prove that he is the answer. Or not.

I don't see it the same Bill. Schoen/Daboll are giving Daniel Jones just enough rope to hang himself in 2022 so they didn't have to shoot him themselves.

Passing on that option basically started the clock on his exit out of NY...

I don't believe-for one second-DJ started with a blank slate from Schoen & Daboll.

In comment 15835867 Milton said:

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In comment 15835848 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: everything Schoen/Daboll are thinking with regards to Jones, that doesn't make it a strong argument. A strong argument is using the logic related to passing on the 5th year option... The Browns and Jets picked up the options on Mayfield and Darnold and changed their minds about them one year later. The Rams and Niners went to Super Bowls with Goff and Garapallo, gave them tens of millions in guaranteed money, and then changed their minds about them. But according to you, Schoen is so sure of his ability to judge talent from a distance that not picking up Jones's 5th year option can only mean that he has conclusively decided that Jones is not in the team's 2023 plans.

Um there's only one problem with this... the Jets DID NOT pick up Darnold's option; the Panthers did.

Also, the Browns? I hope this new coach / GM are not modeling themselves after the Browns QBing draft and trade choices.

The Browns are a team who could have had Russ Wilson when he was in his late 20s for their 1st round pick. (The seahawks offered Wilson in trade for their first round pick/ They really liked Josh Allen). Only the Browns turned them down and then use their #1 pick to draft a Baker Mayfield/

The Giants have a bad offense. And being bad provides plausible deniability. I think posters tend to choose their guy, and hide behind the failures of the other characters, to defend their guy.

Three games and every game has looked similar offensively.

Game 1: 21 pts, 19 1Ds, 394 YDs
Game 2: 19 pts, 16 1Ds, 265 YDs
Game 3: 16 pts, 22 1Ds, 336 YDs

If Gano doesn't get that field goal blocked, the offensive output last night is basically the output of the first two games.

The Giants are probably lucky they won those first two games, given how bad the offense is.

In comment 15835867 Milton said:

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In comment 15835848 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: everything Schoen/Daboll are thinking with regards to Jones, that doesn't make it a strong argument. A strong argument is using the logic related to passing on the 5th year option... The Browns and Jets picked up the options on Mayfield and Darnold and changed their minds about them one year later. The Rams and Niners went to Super Bowls with Goff and Garapallo, gave them tens of millions in guaranteed money, and then changed their minds about them. But according to you, Schoen is so sure of his ability to judge talent from a distance that not picking up Jones's 5th year option can only mean that he has conclusively decided that Jones is not in the team's 2023 plans.

Not sure I place much weight on the decisions those different teams/GMs made, under different scenarios, with different QBs, having anything to do with Jones and the Giants option.

And I am not sure of Schoen's ability to judge talent as of yet. But I am sure that had he perceived a sufficient level of talent in Jones, then he would have exercised the option on a player at the most important position on the field...

In comment 15835830 Sean said:

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I’m just as guilty for it too. But, I think it boils down to two things: Group A: Jones has not been given a fair shot because of 4 different OC’s and 3 different HC’s. The OL has limited what he can do. When he has time and weapons, he can be very good. The example here would be the game in New Orleans last year. Group B: Jones is not good enough to elevate a team on his own like the elite QB’s. He does not produce enough with points/TD’s. He plays the game slow and turns the ball over too much. I don’t think opinions will change. At 2-1, we’ll see how the rest of the season goes.

Nailed it

QB with spotty performance however much you think he has not been supported. On top of it he had a significant injury last year that he missed several games and has been injured in every season played.

JS made the only sensible decision. Let it play out. Evaluate and make a decision at years end. Giants win 4 games and a QB they like falls into their lap you don't want to have to deal with Jones. He performs way above expectations you franchise him or have the leverage in contract extensions.

Don't over think things. This one was pretty easy to see.

I suspect the big thing they are evaluating is who plays QB in 2023 in case they can't get someone they like in the draft. Expectations for BD will be to win. You only get so much time. Reach for a draft pick or go with someone that can help with that effort.

In comment 15835899 Thunderstruck27 said:

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In comment 15835830 Sean said: Quote: I’m just as guilty for it too. But, I think it boils down to two things: Group A: Jones has not been given a fair shot because of 4 different OC’s and 3 different HC’s. The OL has limited what he can do. When he has time and weapons, he can be very good. The example here would be the game in New Orleans last year. Group B: Jones is not good enough to elevate a team on his own like the elite QB’s. He does not produce enough with points/TD’s. He plays the game slow and turns the ball over too much. I don’t think opinions will change. At 2-1, we’ll see how the rest of the season goes. Nailed it

Wish everyone would just take a deep breath and reason this way. I agree this is what it boils down to.

and we could end up with:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Wentz
Murray.
Then let's run out the receivers we had last night and see what they can do.

In comment 15836021 WillieYoung said:

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and we could end up with: Mayfield Darnold Rosen Wentz Murray. Then let's run out the receivers we had last night and see what they can do.

Let's sign DJ to a second contract and guarantee we have:
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Wentz

The mystery about Jones' neck at the end of last season and the off season likely figured into the decision not to guarantee next year's contract before this year started.

I don't recall the injury/prognosis was ever clarified, HIPAA considerations not withstanding. That no one ever said, "We expect DJ to make a full recovery" by the time the option had to be exercised seems relevant.

The mystery about Jones' neck at the end of last season and the off season likely figured into the decision not to guarantee next year's contract before this year started.

I don't recall the injury/prognosis was ever clarified, HIPAA considerations not withstanding. That no one ever said, "We expect DJ to make a full recovery" by the time the option had to be exercised seems relevant.

Decline the 5th year option (1),

(2) he's been actively scouting college QBs, and

(3) The Tyrod contract being a 2-year deal signifies to me that they look at Tyrod as a bridge QB next year to at least partially redshirt a rookie QB.

All signs point to DJ being gone after this season. That said, DJ has the power to change the narrative, but he must do it definitively, it can't just be, "he did ok."

In comment 15836111 Lurts said:

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The mystery about Jones' neck at the end of last season and the off season likely figured into the decision not to guarantee next year's contract before this year started. I don't recall the injury/prognosis was ever clarified, HIPAA considerations not withstanding. That no one ever said, "We expect DJ to make a full recovery" by the time the option had to be exercised seems relevant.

Daboll said Jones was fully healed at the NFL’s annual spring meetings in March, and that he would be doing full workouts well in advance of the deadline on the option.

So...

In comment 15836118 allstarjim said:

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All signs point to DJ being gone after this season. That said, DJ has the power to change the narrative, but he must do it definitively, it can't just be, "he did ok."

Not if the Giants determine that Jones "ok," gives the Giants a better chance to win rather than Taylor.

In comment 15835914 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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QB with spotty performance however much you think he has not been supported. On top of it he had a significant injury last year that he missed several games and has been injured in every season played. JS made the only sensible decision. Let it play out. Evaluate and make a decision at years end. Giants win 4 games and a QB they like falls into their lap you don't want to have to deal with Jones. He performs way above expectations you franchise him or have the leverage in contract extensions. Don't over think things. This one was pretty easy to see. I suspect the big thing they are evaluating is who plays QB in 2023 in case they can't get someone they like in the draft. Expectations for BD will be to win. You only get so much time. Reach for a draft pick or go with someone that can help with that effort.

+1

In comment 15836139 giantstock said:

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In comment 15836118 allstarjim said: Quote: All signs point to DJ being gone after this season. That said, DJ has the power to change the narrative, but he must do it definitively, it can't just be, "he did ok." Not if the Giants determine that Jones "ok," gives the Giants a better chance to win rather than Taylor.

That will not happen. That would require at least a tag if not extension. For that money, 'ok' isn't going to earn that, because they need to start the clock on the rebuild with a QB of their choosing. Can't afford to kick the can down the road.

In comment 15836118 allstarjim said:

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Decline the 5th year option, he's been actively scouting college QBs, and

He was at the Rutgers-Iowa game last week, who was the franchise QB he was scouting there? He's been actively scouting college talent at all positions. It's his fucking job! This is a perfect example of taking a perfectly normal fact and twisting it into something meaningful to support your narrative. What's next? Schoen had rye bread with his eggs for breakfast, it must mean he likes Levis in next year's draft!

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The Tyrod contract being a 2-year deal signifies to me that they look at Tyrod as a bridge QB next year to at least partially redshirt a rookie QB.

Maybe it just means they wanted some stability at the backup QB position instead of grooming a new one each year, maybe it means they wanted insurance against injuries to Jones or Jones being a difficult negotiation, maybe it means that was the contract that worked best for both Taylor and the Giants. What does the fact that Taylor was the worst of the three QBs they had in camp and they only signed Webb to the practice squad? Is every move they make at the most important position in all of sports somehow an indictment on Jones?

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All signs point to...

Tiffany is the next Giants QB - ( New Window )

Schoen must make an unequivocal decision on DJ before the draft. Even if he keeps DJ, drafting a QB in the first three rounds might be prudent. The team has big holes at WR, OL and overall lack of talent throughout the roster. I now we can't address all the needs in this upcoming draft. It is obvious one draft can't fill all the needs but with smart moves in FA Schoen might accelerate the rebuild.

The receivers are once again the worst in the league. Our second round pick isn’t contributing. Our OLine has a lot of growing pains. These two factors impact the play of SB and DJ. I am sure we all recall the performance of this offense last season when these two players were out. I believe that was the worst offense I have ever watched in the NFL. Without these two guys that’s exactly where this offense is back to. Yes get rid of DJ and replace him with? I for one don’t want to see that until there is someone in place that can play better. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. These guys don’t grow on trees and I’m pulling for DJ and Saquon and the rest of our team. I do think that next season we will be in a better position with our offense.

The receivers are once again the worst in the league. Our second round pick isn’t contributing. Our OLine has a lot of growing pains. These two factors impact the play of SB and DJ. I am sure we all recall the performance of this offense last season when these two players were out. I believe that was the worst offense I have ever watched in the NFL. Without these two guys that’s exactly where this offense is back to. Yes get rid of DJ and replace him with? I for one don’t want to see that until there is someone in place that can play better. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. These guys don’t grow on trees and I’m pulling for DJ and Saquon and the rest of our team. I do think that next season we will be in a better position with our offense.

a heroic game is when you win under those circumstances to me. The same old story, the OL has been pretty bad so far and the WRs are terrible and our best one was just lost for the season. We will again have WRs play significant snaps that are not NFL quality. Sills is a much better story as a guy coming in as the 4th or 5th WR. Its not good when he is your #1 or #2.

you can win WITH him but you wont win BECAUSE of him, thats the reality of Daniel Jones..

And i keep seeing this notion that no qb would of been able to win in the same situation as monday night, thats BS..

If Dallas brought the pressure and played up like they were doing against, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes they would of beat Dallas..

Probably a few others..Jones did a great job last night and i was impressed by how he performed but lets not overreact they still only scored 1 TD

In comment 15836248 nygiants16 said:

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you can win WITH him but you wont win BECAUSE of him, thats the reality of Daniel Jones.. And i keep seeing this notion that no qb would of been able to win in the same situation as monday night, thats BS.. If Dallas brought the pressure and played up like they were doing against, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes they would of beat Dallas.. Probably a few others..Jones did a great job last night and i was impressed by how he performed but lets not overreact they still only scored 1 TD

Do you not take into account the drops in key moments? The INT where the receiver fell down? The fact that our #1 pick last year didnt play, our #2 pick this year didnt play, our way overpaid FA WR souldnt have played and our best WR had a bad drop and tore his ACL while on a slow jog down the field. Richie James is now our leading WR and has 52 career receptions since 2018. Go read Sy's write up on the WRs.

In comment 15836298 Rudy5757 said:

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In comment 15836248 nygiants16 said: Quote: you can win WITH him but you wont win BECAUSE of him, thats the reality of Daniel Jones.. And i keep seeing this notion that no qb would of been able to win in the same situation as monday night, thats BS.. If Dallas brought the pressure and played up like they were doing against, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes they would of beat Dallas.. Probably a few others..Jones did a great job last night and i was impressed by how he performed but lets not overreact they still only scored 1 TD Do you not take into account the drops in key moments? The INT where the receiver fell down? The fact that our #1 pick last year didnt play, our #2 pick this year didnt play, our way overpaid FA WR souldnt have played and our best WR had a bad drop and tore his ACL while on a slow jog down the field. Richie James is now our leading WR and has 52 career receptions since 2018. Go read Sy's write up on the WRs.

yes i do, This idea a frachise QB coukdnt win in that scenario really isnt true..

First off the Cowboys scheme it different, they hsd no fear of Jones beating them deep, as soon as the Giants were in a passing down the cowboys brought the heat with no fear, part of that is the wrs but the other is Jones, teams dont fear him..

You dont blitz guys like rodgers or mahomes or Brady or any top QBs because they will pick you apart regardless of the WR talent..

I domt blame Jones for drops but the game is 100% different if Jones is a franchise QB

Worth mentioning, if memory serves - Eli was very much trashed, undermined, with 'not the guy'-sentiments for a long time with way more stability of regime, weaponry, O-line, etc. Even when he performed, people would still not put him in that highest of high categories. Can you live with Jones being a top 10-14 QB? I think I could.

In comment 15836604 Coopcomic said:

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Worth mentioning, if memory serves - Eli was very much trashed, undermined, with 'not the guy'-sentiments for a long time with way more stability of regime, weaponry, O-line, etc. Even when he performed, people would still not put him in that highest of high categories. Can you live with Jones being a top 10-14 QB? I think I could.

Can you live with a team whose maximum win total each season caps out around 9? I think I couldn't.

/
Some of the better plays by Daniel Jones last night (B Skinner) - ( New Window )

In comment 15836632 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 15836604 Coopcomic said: Quote: Worth mentioning, if memory serves - Eli was very much trashed, undermined, with 'not the guy'-sentiments for a long time with way more stability of regime, weaponry, O-line, etc. Even when he performed, people would still not put him in that highest of high categories. Can you live with Jones being a top 10-14 QB? I think I could. Can you live with a team whose maximum win total each season caps out around 9? I think I couldn't.

Giants won their past 2 SB's with 9 win teams.

In comment 15836958 Coopcomic said:

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In comment 15836632 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 15836604 Coopcomic said: Quote: Worth mentioning, if memory serves - Eli was very much trashed, undermined, with 'not the guy'-sentiments for a long time with way more stability of regime, weaponry, O-line, etc. Even when he performed, people would still not put him in that highest of high categories. Can you live with Jones being a top 10-14 QB? I think I could. Can you live with a team whose maximum win total each season caps out around 9? I think I couldn't. Giants won their past 2 SB's with 9 win teams.

Good lord. The board is just loaded with good thoughts today...

They had a QB with giant balls, that got better when the pressure increased and the stakes got higher.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK HAS DANIEL JONES DONE ANYWHERE THAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE HIS IS LIKE THAT?

Gimme a break.

I think it's a great deal crazier, but I at least get the posters who think Jones is a really good QB with a huge ceiling.

The notion the Giants should commit good money on a short agreement to Jones, because "who else?" is so strange.