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Interesting point made by Tom Rock regarding NYG offense

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/27/2022 4:13 pm
Tom Rock @TomRock_Newsday

Want to feel a little better about Giants offense after last night? Here's what Brady's Bucs and Burrows' Bengals did against that same Dallas D:

TB - 19 pts 1 TD 347 total yds 195 pass yds
Cin- 17 pts 1 TD 254 total yds 165 pass yds
NYG - 16 pts 1 TD 336 total yds 169 pass yds
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Dallas D has been good at exploiting  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/27/2022 4:49 pm : link
weaknesses. They are better than I thought they would be so far this year.

Tampa has a lot of WR issues (right now) and the OL is poor.
Cincy is poor on the OL and Burrows hold the ball too long and the team can't run.

Giants have PB issues and can't get a consistent run game going. The WR's don't scare anyone.

Great D or facing flawed teams? TBD imv
Just watched the Condensed Replay  
Angus : 9/27/2022 5:01 pm : link
It seemed to me like the game was pretty close. The Giants were much worse against the run than in the first two games. Leonard Williams would have made a big difference.
That's largely why I predicted the Giants would score 16  
Dr. D : 9/27/2022 5:10 pm : link
I got that part right. Unfortunately I got the other part wrong, was hoping Giants D was going to hold Dallas to 13. Oh well. D really missed Leonard.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/27/2022 5:39 pm : link
game was lost when Shep dropped/got the ball punched out on that sideline play when it was 13-13. I think we score there if the drive keeps going.
i said this last night on the game thread  
Rory : 9/27/2022 5:56 pm : link
multiple times while everyone was in freak out mode. After watching the first quarter it was pretty clear how good the Cowboys defense is.

I still can't believe how people act & what they say on those threads. Its humiliating and embarrassing
RE: Again, the biggest truth of last night  
Photoguy : 9/27/2022 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15835652 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
is that our defense didn't get to the QB and allowed too many chunk plays. People seem to forget we had momentum and the lead at 13-6. If the defense stops Dallas right there and we get the ball back the Dallas defense was getting ready to fold. They had been on the field far too much. But, we gave a a long drive TD, too easily and then gave them the ball right back again.

We could have (losers mantra) won that game last night but our defense couldn't make a play.


I was shocked at how quickly they went down the field. You'd expect the D to be fired up, but they just got steamrolled on that drive and never were able to get momentum back.
You guys would have loved the 70's  
HomerJones45 : 9/27/2022 6:02 pm : link
This is the type of moral victory bullshit we regularly enjoyed back then.

Btw, good ol' Tom forgot to add that both those games were in Dallas. Tampa had 16 point lead in the 3rd quarter and rolled up 152 yards on the ground basically running out the clock on the way to winning the game.

Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.
RE: i said this last night on the game thread  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/27/2022 6:02 pm : link
In comment 15835752 Rory said:
Quote:
multiple times while everyone was in freak out mode. After watching the first quarter it was pretty clear how good the Cowboys defense is.

I still can't believe how people act & what they say on those threads. Its humiliating and embarrassing


It really feels like people relish saying the absolute most ridiculous things.
Benglas OLine is quite literally as bad as ours  
islander1 : 9/27/2022 6:06 pm : link
except they have a better QB and receivers.

Better receivers  
Carl in CT : 9/27/2022 6:10 pm : link
If DJ had chase and Higgins his stats would be off the charts.
RE: its 100% worth noting  
bluewave : 9/27/2022 6:13 pm : link
In comment 15835648 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
it doesn't mean Jones is that level of player, don't know why people take it to that extreme.


Do you agree or disagree that of those three teams, it was Jones who has the LEAST to work with?
RE: You guys would have loved the 70's  
islander1 : 9/27/2022 6:15 pm : link
In comment 15835756 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
This is the type of moral victory bullshit we regularly enjoyed back then.

Btw, good ol' Tom forgot to add that both those games were in Dallas. Tampa had 16 point lead in the 3rd quarter and rolled up 152 yards on the ground basically running out the clock on the way to winning the game.

Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.



didn't sack him once, either. Even street bums can beat us if we let them throw.
RE: RE: If  
HewlettGiant : 9/27/2022 6:20 pm : link
In comment 15835649 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15835635 HewlettGiant said:


Quote:


The Giants had a good offense and they were stymied by an outstanding Dallas defense I understand it’s just every week it’s the same thing.

Year after year…does not matter the opponent

Hey section...Homer expressed this much better than I did....no Tom Rock's comment...Eric's posting of the comment, and your snarky response, did not go over my head....My standards are a bit higher.

You guys would have loved the 70's
HomerJones45 : 6:02 pm : link : reply
This is the type of moral victory bullshit we regularly enjoyed back then.

Btw, good ol' Tom forgot to add that both those games were in Dallas. Tampa had 16 point lead in the 3rd quarter and rolled up 152 yards on the ground basically running out the clock on the way to winning the game.

Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.

Guess Eric's post went right over your head, eh?
RE: You guys would have loved the 70's  
HewlettGiant : 9/27/2022 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15835756 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
This is the type of moral victory bullshit we regularly enjoyed back then.

Btw, good ol' Tom forgot to add that both those games were in Dallas. Tampa had 16 point lead in the 3rd quarter and rolled up 152 yards on the ground basically running out the clock on the way to winning the game.

Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.


+1
RE: RE: its 100% worth noting  
UConn4523 : 9/27/2022 6:28 pm : link
In comment 15835768 bluewave said:
Quote:
In comment 15835648 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


it doesn't mean Jones is that level of player, don't know why people take it to that extreme.



Do you agree or disagree that of those three teams, it was Jones who has the LEAST to work with?


Yes. But saying that may bucket me in the “DJFC”.
RE: You guys would have loved the 70's  
speedywheels : 9/27/2022 6:30 pm : link
In comment 15835756 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
This is the type of moral victory bullshit we regularly enjoyed back then.

Btw, good ol' Tom forgot to add that both those games were in Dallas. Tampa had 16 point lead in the 3rd quarter and rolled up 152 yards on the ground basically running out the clock on the way to winning the game.

Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.


Well, the Giants were starting UFDA level talent at WR. And 4 of the guys on OL played at UDFA level as well.
C'mon any other QB than Jones not only would have won the game .....  
Walker Gillette : 9/27/2022 6:31 pm : link
He would have ripped them apart. Jones missed wide open guys all night just standing back there trying to figure it out/ ;-)
RE: RE: i said this last night on the game thread  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/27/2022 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15835757 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15835752 Rory said:


Quote:


multiple times while everyone was in freak out mode. After watching the first quarter it was pretty clear how good the Cowboys defense is.

I still can't believe how people act & what they say on those threads. Its humiliating and embarrassing



It really feels like people relish saying the absolute most ridiculous things.


Or one is hammered in the moment & is temporarily insane after a bad play/loss. I wouldn't know anyone like that though...Haha.
We have one top level NFL player  
Ike#88 : 9/27/2022 7:12 pm : link
on offense. Barkley. All their skill players on offense were better than ours including at QB. We played tough but it was at home and we did not have the firepower. Bummer.
Simply put, Dallas is the better team  
Bill in UT : 9/27/2022 7:18 pm : link
We could have had to do something out of the ordinary to counter that in order to beat them, and we didn't
Offense  
stretch234 : 9/27/2022 7:20 pm : link
Cincy has Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Hurst @ TE

TB has Evans, Godwin, Gage, Jones & Brate

Giants have Shep, James, Sills, Bellinger

Why do they struggle on offense - none of their WR are better than 4th on other teams

Barkley, Jones and Thomas are the offense and 2 of them might not be here next year
RE: RE: RE: If  
section125 : 9/27/2022 7:25 pm : link
In comment 15835780 HewlettGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15835649 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15835635 HewlettGiant said:


Quote:


The Giants had a good offense and they were stymied by an outstanding Dallas defense I understand it’s just every week it’s the same thing.

Year after year…does not matter the opponent

Hey section...Homer expressed this much better than I did....no Tom Rock's comment...Eric's posting of the comment, and your snarky response, did not go over my head....My standards are a bit higher.

You guys would have loved the 70's
HomerJones45 : 6:02 pm : link : reply
This is the type of moral victory bullshit we regularly enjoyed back then.

Btw, good ol' Tom forgot to add that both those games were in Dallas. Tampa had 16 point lead in the 3rd quarter and rolled up 152 yards on the ground basically running out the clock on the way to winning the game.

Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.

Guess Eric's post went right over your head, eh?



And you might try to post a reply properly instead of burying it inside another reply. But, If you give a dumb answer you get a snarky answer. If you think homerjones45 gives good answers or replies then you have very few standards.
If our edge guys had gotten to the QB he would have folded.  
Giant John : 9/27/2022 9:07 pm : link
I know it’s early but Tibbs has shown nothing. Zero. Not in camp, not in preseason and not in yesterday’s game. Where is the speed? Where is that first step?
Like I said it’s early but we should have been seeing some athletic ability by know.
If our edge guys had gotten to the QB he would have folded.  
Giant John : 9/27/2022 9:08 pm : link
I know it’s early but Tibbs has shown nothing. Zero. Not in camp, not in preseason and not in yesterday’s game. Where is the speed? Where is that first step?
Like I said it’s early but we should have been seeing some athletic ability by know.
If our edge guys had gotten to the QB he would have folded.  
Giant John : 9/27/2022 9:08 pm : link
I know it’s early but Tibbs has shown nothing. Zero. Not in camp, not in preseason and not in yesterday’s game. Where is the speed? Where is that first step?
Like I said it’s early but we should have been seeing some athletic ability by know.
"It's early but I want it now!!"  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/27/2022 9:11 pm : link
Do the math in your head. A pass rusher, whose game is based on explosion, hasn't played or prepped in a month, because of a partially torn knee ligament.


“Walker Gillette” go back in your hole of ignorance and bias.  
plato : 9/27/2022 9:46 pm : link
!
“Walker Gillette” go back in your hole of ignorance and bias.  
plato : 9/27/2022 9:47 pm : link
!
“Walker Gillette” go back in your hole of ignorance and bias.  
plato : 9/27/2022 9:47 pm : link
!!!
“Walker Gillette” go back in your hole of ignorance and bias.  
plato : 9/27/2022 9:49 pm : link
!
RE: You guys would have loved the 70's  
bw in dc : 9/27/2022 10:11 pm : link
In comment 15835756 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:


Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.


That's what I said earlier.

Further, Dallas is starting a rookie LT and a Terence Steele is an undrafted, new starter at RT. They lost their two superb bookend tackles in the offseason.

Their #2 WR, Gallup, is still out. Hasn't played all season. His replacement is Noah Brown, a 7th rounder from Ohio State in 2017.

Finally, we got handed a huge opportunity at the end of the game because McCarthy still can't manage a clock. So, we got the ball back with 1 minute 50 seconds left instead of less than a minute.

Naturally, we couldn't take advantage of said gift because when it comes to time to shine and deliver in a big moment, Jones just can't.

Not part of his DNA.

RE: “Walker Gillette” go back in your hole of ignorance and bias.  
Walker Gillette : 9/27/2022 10:17 pm : link
In comment 15836062 plato said:
Quote:
!


Plato, notice ;-) at the end of the post, it's sarcasm, I like DJ and think he has gotten a very raw deal here
RE: RE: You guys would have loved the 70's  
Walker Gillette : 9/27/2022 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15836079 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15835756 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:




Let's not sugar coat. We lost a division game at home to a team starting an UDFA at qb.



That's what I said earlier.

Further, Dallas is starting a rookie LT and a Terence Steele is an undrafted, new starter at RT. They lost their two superb bookend tackles in the offseason.

Their #2 WR, Gallup, is still out. Hasn't played all season. His replacement is Noah Brown, a 7th rounder from Ohio State in 2017.

Finally, we got handed a huge opportunity at the end of the game because McCarthy still can't manage a clock. So, we got the ball back with 1 minute 50 seconds left instead of less than a minute.

Naturally, we couldn't take advantage of said gift because when it comes to time to shine and deliver in a big moment, Jones just can't.

Not part of his DNA.


BW, I know me asking you this is a fools errand but how can you come to the conclusion of your last point. I'll assume you watched the game so you saw the pressure he was under and you saw just how pathetic the play of the Giant's receiver corps was. I mean please explain to me without the blanket BS statement "Good quarterbacks make all of them around them better" because that is a cop out. Nobody was making the OL and receivers better last night, in fact you would need one of those groups to perform well for a QB to lift the other because if you have no time and your receivers flat out suck who are you lifting up and how are you doing it. I can't sit here and say that DJ is the answer, but good Lord how you come to that conclusion is just beyond me. Other than Barkley and Thomas there is just nobody there playing on an even replacement level. I like Shep but he had that bonehead penalty and that drop was killer.
RE: Again, the biggest truth of last night  
montanagiant : 9/27/2022 11:43 pm : link
In comment 15835652 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
is that our defense didn't get to the QB and allowed too many chunk plays. People seem to forget we had momentum and the lead at 13-6. If the defense stops Dallas right there and we get the ball back the Dallas defense was getting ready to fold. They had been on the field far too much. But, we gave a a long drive TD, too easily and then gave them the ball right back again.

We could have (losers mantra) won that game last night but our defense couldn't make a play.

Yup, them going right down the field easy as pie two straight times after we took the lead was the killer
RE: “Walker Gillette” go back in your hole of ignorance and bias.  
montanagiant : 9/27/2022 11:46 pm : link
In comment 15836062 plato said:
Quote:
!

He's being sarcastic. The figure at the end of his post states that
RE: RE: You guys would have loved the 70's  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/27/2022 11:55 pm : link
In comment 15836079 bw in dc said:
Quote:


Naturally, we couldn't take advantage of said gift because when it comes to time to shine and deliver in a big moment, Jones just can't.

Not part of his DNA.


LOL. Did you watch the last drive? Jones completed his first pass, threw one incomplete, Neal had a false start, and then Sills slipped on his cut as Jones was throwing it.

Looking at the 22, Jones did a fine job the first play evading the eventual pressure while waiting for someone to break open. He hit that man (Shepard) as he was starting to scramble.

On the incompletion, he could possibly have hit the TE (Hudson, I believe), but it would have been a very short gain as the LB was closing fast. Yardage gain probably not worth the time that would have come off the clock. (To be fair, I can't be sure from the 22 that he saw the TE so not sure if it was a conscious, strategic decision to not go there).

And the final play was an INT completely on the WR. Sills was open (the only one at the time of the throw) and it's probably a completion for a decent gain if Sills doesn't just fall on his face.

Jones did his job. As was the story of the game, his WR and OL let him down even when he did what he was supposed to do.
RE: RE: RE: You guys would have loved the 70's  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/28/2022 12:03 am : link
Watched the 22 of the incomplete and the INT again.

I don't think he saw the TE since his initial read is to the left side of the field, and the TE lined up on the right kind of leaks into the flat. Jones reads left to right and it appears Shep was his 3rd read. He never got around to the TEs side of the field.

On the INT Jones doesn't seem to look Sills way post-snap until he throws. He actually does a decent job looking the safety off to his right. He hits his drop and immediately fires to Sills.
Actually  
mdthedream : 9/28/2022 6:37 am : link
I was not surprised. I actually feel the Giants oline will improve as the season goes on and this was going to be a very hard task for them. I actually felt it improved in the second half as well. Some of it was Jones holding onto the ball to long and the wr situation is a issue.
RE: People seemed to forget how good Dallas is  
nochance : 9/28/2022 7:29 am : link
In comment 15835668 Sean said:
Quote:
.



Yet with practice squad caliber receivers outside of AT a whole new OL with 2 rookies and new coaching. we had a chance to tie in the last drive. Not to mention all the mistakes, drops and bad penalties .
Look at the stark difference between the 2 offenses  
Rudy5757 : 9/28/2022 10:13 am : link
With absolutely no pressure the Dallas O didnt exactly light it up. Its hard to win when you generate no pressure on the QB.

The Giants O and the revamped OL gave up pressure all game. That was one of the worst OL performances I have seen.

So combine the 2 its a bad situation but the silver lining is that we still had a chance to tie the game on the last drive. Maybe we can make a drive if Sills doesnt fall down and cause the INT.
RE: RE: People seemed to forget how good Dallas is  
xtian : 9/28/2022 4:16 pm : link
In comment 15836184 nochance said:
Quote:
In comment 15835668 Sean said:

Quote:
.
Yet with practice squad caliber receivers outside of AT a whole new OL with 2 rookies and new coaching. we had a chance to tie in the last drive. Not to mention all the mistakes, drops and bad penalties .

exactly. we were badly outplayed, but even with all the bad OL play, crappy receivers, and zero pass rush, if only those 2 or 3 drops were caught, we tie the game. pretty amazing, really.
Dallas also dropped a sure touchdown themselves and  
Jimmy Googs : 9/28/2022 4:27 pm : link
had an obvious PI on one of their WRs in the end zone that wasn't called. But yeah, the game was close.

Just sayin'...
For anyone saying DJ  
Now Mike in MD : 9/28/2022 5:01 pm : link
in any way contributed to this loss, identify the specific plays he left on the field. Don't talk in generlaities like he doesn;t have "it." Give me 5 mistakes he made.

And I can counter with at least 15 plays he created out of nothing by either scramling for a first down or moving within the pocket with significant pressure bearing down on him and hitting receivers.
Remember when the Giants had  
UConn4523 : 9/28/2022 5:10 pm : link
0 drops and no calls go against them? Yeah me neither.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/28/2022 5:49 pm : link
I think NFL offenses generally have been pretty bad so far - the 16th best offense is average 4ppg less than last year (I didn't check everyone else, obviously).

If you're bullish on Jones (I'm not), I think it's reasonable to point out how terrible everyone else has been too so far.
RE: For anyone saying DJ  
Atari2600 : 9/29/2022 9:24 am : link
In comment 15836880 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
in any way contributed to this loss, identify the specific plays he left on the field. Don't talk in generlaities like he doesn;t have "it." Give me 5 mistakes he made.

And I can counter with at least 15 plays he created out of nothing by either scramling for a first down or moving within the pocket with significant pressure bearing down on him and hitting receivers.


How do you really know that? It's sort of the other side of the same coin. Unless you know that no receivers are open and what admittedly limited time he has had, isn't enough time, we're pretty much in the same boat.

It has been 3 games so far this season; the facts are he has not thrown for 200 yards or more, or thrown very many TDs.

This has been sort of a continuation of the last season. Am I to believe that #8 never has anybody open and his pass protection is always horrible? It didn't look horrible to me in the TB Bucs game.

At the end of the day Jones might just be scrambling too much because he is afraid to pull the trigger on a pass where someone is not 100% wide open. It's not really a winning formula and Barkley isn't going to be able to be the number 2 receiver and take it to the house every game on break out runs.

Everyone keeps on and on about cooper rush and how if he werre a Giant and Jones a cowboy etc.. Give him credit ; for 2 weeks in a row now he throw for over 200 yards ; had a high rating; helped his team win games by making big throws late in the game.

I think Garrett got it right. Sometimes we are fooled by QBs that can squat 600 lbs and run 4/4 or whatever; that someone who makes great decisions quick and is an accurate passer and good fundamentals player is often discarded as scrap pile material.
Dallas is better,  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/29/2022 9:43 am : link
but if Shep and Golladay can catch passes that they should easily catch, we might very well win. Thanks to those two gimps, though.
The offense came out in the 2nd half and scored on its first  
PatersonPlank : 9/29/2022 9:56 am : link
2 possessions, 10 pts, to take a 7pt lead. After that the defense collapsed and didn't stop Dallas at any point during the rest of the game; long TD, long TD, FG.

The defense sucked.

Who cares where Dallas played their first 2 games  
Tom from LI : 9/29/2022 11:13 am : link
This was a divisional game.

Throw everything out the window. It is definitely different intensity.





RE: Remember when the Giants had  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/29/2022 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15836886 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
0 drops and no calls go against them? Yeah me neither.

How often does any team have no drops and no unfavorable calls against them?

I would imagine that's a pretty rare scenario for any team.
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