Agree 100% with Wink's D laying an egg. They just had nothing. DAL had success doing whatever they wanted, and only shooting themselves in the foot slowed them down.
A play that really pissed me off was the 3rd and 12 toss for a 1st down. I've never seen an edge so wide open in my life.
I can't be angry with the result because I felt overall, DAL kicked their butts and the score probably should've been worse. To lay such a huge egg defensively in front of that crowd is tough to understand.
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
Agree 100% with Wink's D laying an egg. They just had nothing. DAL had success doing whatever they wanted, and only shooting themselves in the foot slowed them down.
A play that really pissed me off was the 3rd and 12 toss for a 1st down. I've never seen an edge so wide open in my life.
I can't be angry with the result because I felt overall, DAL kicked their butts and the score probably should've been worse. To lay such a huge egg defensively in front of that crowd is tough to understand.
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
I'm sure some will ... no, most will disagree with me but
I can see the Giants going with Jones one more year if the right QB isn't available tp us. Obviously the decision on Jones has to be made first but this regime will know if they have a shot at one of the QBs in the draft. Along with that, I think they need to lock up Dex and Love. The reason I say this is because there are so many holes on this team that another draft and FA period can help shore up the supporting cast. Obviously, a franchise QB in the draft trumps everything and if the right guy is there you pull the trigger. I also just cannot imagine giving up a bunch of assets to move up to get a QB and not having the resources to give the kid a fighting chance with how bare our offense is right now. Who will be back next year on offense besides Thomas, Neal, and guys like Bellinger, Ezudu, McKethan, and Lemieux? I truly hope Gates can make a full recovery. There is a good chance almost all our WRs and RBs are gone. This offense needs a complete facelift. This also plays into the fact that Dex and Love should be resigned. Have some consistency on D.
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
To your last question, yes. Ojulari was responsible for that huge play down the sideline. It seemed to really break the D at that point in the game. They also both sucked on their run defense..
I agree. Would love to see Jones with some semblance of a good supporting cast but it almost seems like he's cursed. Who were his #1 targets vs. a tough Cowboys team. Sills, Shep, James & Bellinger? Get real. That's not going to cut it in the NFL.
M.S. - I have no idea. But there were frustrating plays like that all night. Another play that sticks out is the play Dexter Lawrence got instant heat up the middle. That should've been an easy sack but Rush just wings it downfield and a guy is wide open. Ridiculous that someone would be open downfield like that as soon as the QB takes the snap.
Jones (and any other aspect of this team), I still get the sense fans are coming to conclusions based on the last game played.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
and i think the loss of Williams made them a little less agressive with stunts and blitzes because of the dallas run game..
I also think having an inside linebacker that gets pushed around and takes bad angles kills them, i notice a lot of time Crowser tries to shoot gaps instead of stringing out those stretch run plays and leaves creases in the defense. Sometimes Love or Mckonney can fill it but if they dont, its a long run.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Disagree with being out coached defensively. What can a coach do when his #1 corner gets torched, #2 corner is not NFL ready yet, you have no starting caliber linebackers, your interior D-line can’t get off blocks and your edge rushers are rusty at best and provide no pressure? Blitz? They don’t get home anyway and it really exposes the back end. Wink can scheme with the best of them, but Tom Landry or Buddy Ryan couldn’t do any better with this cast of characters.
Jones (and any other aspect of this team), I still get the sense fans are coming to conclusions based on the last game played.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
It's not that I feel better about him. I'm just being realistic. If a top QB becomes available then you take a shot but odds are there won't be so what are our options? I can't imagine Jones will be in high demand. That is why I feel Jones and the Giants can make sense for 1 more year together as a stop gap until we build up this offense. Again, any top QB available trumps anything but what if there isn't one? FA happens before the draft so it is hard to predict we can get a specific guy. That's all I am saying.
My feelings towards shep are similar. This game pointed out weaknesses in our lineup that even better teams, ehem Eagles ehem, will exploit even more. It's scary to think we are in week 4 and we are bereft of talent at WR and MLB with no cavalry coming, as Eric likes to say. Our CBs will get exposed soon enough and not sure Lemieux provides much of an improvement to pass pro, if and when he does comeback. As you said the staff needs to focus in strengths. Run game edge talent (hopefully) and safeties and interior dl.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
and Jones played the best game he could play. I've been through 2 of the 3 Neal sacks and there were huge chunk plays that you can see DJ was looking too could not get the time. Freaking shame...
Dallas' D on was on freaking point! You can see on the film they had those intermediate crossing routes locked down halfway through this all-22 film.
Jones (and any other aspect of this team), I still get the sense fans are coming to conclusions based on the last game played.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
Agreed, i have felt differently about Jones after every game, actually i have felt the best about Jones after the loss to Dallas
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Are you sure about that? The right side of the offense isn't the strong side. From my view, he was primarily an off the ball LB. I know Dallas moves him all over but I wouldn't say he goes to the strong side. I think Dallas would want him on the weak side to get him rushing against less blockers.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Are you sure about that? The right side of the offense isn't the strong side. From my view, he was primarily an off the ball LB. I know Dallas moves him all over but I wouldn't say he goes to the strong side. I think Dallas would want him on the weak side to get him rushing against less blockers.
The strong side changes on every snap, it depends on how the offense is lined up
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Are you sure about that? The right side of the offense isn't the strong side. From my view, he was primarily an off the ball LB. I know Dallas moves him all over but I wouldn't say he goes to the strong side. I think Dallas would want him on the weak side to get him rushing against less blockers.
The strong side changes on every snap, it depends on how the offense is lined up
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
When asking, “Who fucked up?” on defense, just assume the answer is Darnay Holmes and you’ll be correct more often than not. He ran inside of the blocker on a blitz so Ceedee Lamb barely had to touch him at all. It was so stupid that I assumed (incorrectly) that he actually didn’t have contain and someone else must’ve screwed up. Just a loser player.
Great stuff as usual, Sy. As I said in the post game thread, Barkley needs to touch the ball more.
Sy, can you tell us what happened on the Giants final play of the half? It appeared that the Cowboys were giving the Giants the first down as well as a clear sideline to get out of bounds quickly. Instead, the Giants are running slants and of course, there’s an incompletion to Golladay. What the heck were they doing?
I agree. Would love to see Jones with some semblance of a good supporting cast but it almost seems like he's cursed. Who were his #1 targets vs. a tough Cowboys team. Sills, Shep, James & Bellinger? Get real. That's not going to cut it in the NFL.
M.S. - I have no idea. But there were frustrating plays like that all night. Another play that sticks out is the play Dexter Lawrence got instant heat up the middle. That should've been an easy sack but Rush just wings it downfield and a guy is wide open. Ridiculous that someone would be open downfield like that as soon as the QB takes the snap.
Yep. I groaned when that happened. I'm hoping the team has got that Dallas game out of its system since there are no guarantees against the clawless Bears!
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
When asking, “Who fucked up?” on defense, just assume the answer is Darnay Holmes and you’ll be correct more often than not. He ran inside of the blocker on a blitz so Ceedee Lamb barely had to touch him at all. It was so stupid that I assumed (incorrectly) that he actually didn’t have contain and someone else must’ve screwed up. Just a loser player.
Great stuff as usual, Sy. As I said in the post game thread, Barkley needs to touch the ball more.
Sy, can you tell us what happened on the Giants final play of the half? It appeared that the Cowboys were giving the Giants the first down as well as a clear sideline to get out of bounds quickly. Instead, the Giants are running slants and of course, there’s an incompletion to Golladay. What the heck were they doing?
Darnay Holmes! He practically undressed a Dallas WR in the end zone, and the funniest part of that game (if a Giants fan can find any humor at all) was the look of utter disbelief on the Cowboys sideline.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Parson’s moves all over the formation on defense and rushes from multiple positions, he doesn’t “typically” line up anywhere. I’m not sure what him knocking Glowinski on his but has to do with how he faired against Andrew Thomas.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Parsons moves all over the formation on defense and rushes from multiple positions, he doesn’t “typically” line up anywhere. I’m not sure what him knocking Glowinski on his but has to do with how he faired against Andrew Thomas.
What I was getting at was that Parsons didn't usually line up against Andrew Thomas when rushing the passer. Perhaps he saw Neal and Glowinski as weak links.
Quote:
Jones (and any other aspect of this team), I still get the sense fans are coming to conclusions based on the last game played.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
It's not that I feel better about him. I'm just being realistic. If a top QB becomes available then you take a shot but odds are there won't be so what are our options? I can't imagine Jones will be in high demand. That is why I feel Jones and the Giants can make sense for 1 more year together as a stop gap until we build up this offense. Again, any top QB available trumps anything but what if there isn't one? FA happens before the draft so it is hard to predict we can get a specific guy. That's all I am saying.
Robbie, agree, and not based on last night. I’ve said before, I think it’s 50-50 whether DJ is back or not. If they can upgrade, they will. But unless they totally tank, I doubt they’ll be in a position draft a prospect that has a chance to be an upgrade. And FA is unlikely to be the answer.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Parsons moves all over the formation on defense and rushes from multiple positions, he doesn’t “typically” line up anywhere. I’m not sure what him knocking Glowinski on his but has to do with how he faired against Andrew Thomas.
What I was getting at was that Parsons didn't usually line up against Andrew Thomas when rushing the passer. Perhaps he saw Neal and Glowinski as weak links.
I'm sure him or Quinn picked out the right side as the easier to rush on for obvious reasons, but again, I was really just wanting to focus on the few match ups he had against Thomas. I knew they wouldn't be lined up exclusively.
what I said during the game and in my thread yesterday morning. The Giants offense is pretty limited (and that is being nice) and yet we had a 13-6 lead. The Boys defense, something SY didn't include specifically in his point, was on the field a lot at the end of the 1st half and the beginning of the second half. The Giants defense had a chance to come out and force a 3 and out, putting Dallas's defense back on the field ready to fold from just being worn down.
Instead they moved effortlessly down the field and scored. That gave them renewed energy and when they forced us to punt quickly, our defense again failed to hold up and allowed Dallas to score what turned out to be the winning points really.
Our defense failed horribly in plays that mattered both in momentum terms, field position terms and obviously the score. It was very disappointing.
You can crap on the Oline (it played badly) and our joke receiving corps but, the game turned on the defense. SY mentioned something early about the offense making plays with motion, and movement by Jones, and tempo. All of those things are in play when the game is our favor, tied or very close. Once you fall behind and now time becomes an issue you cannot rely on that scheming to work as Dallas no longer fears the gimmicky stuff and knows the plays are all within 15/20 yards tops and more likely within 7-12 yards.
I think Kafka and Daboll deserve huge credit for scheming enough that our offense, featuring James, Sils and SS (who has never been great or the #1 here), along with Bellinger, Myrick and Hudson at TE.. The fact that we had the lead says a lot about our ability to create plays even without playmakers.
Buffalo had a similar problem and then they traded for Diggs, drafted Knox and Davis and drafted multiple RB's to play a committee type role (ie why I don't see us signing Barkley to HUGE money.
This game was lost by our defense and they better show up this weekend and provide some HELP to the offense against a very poor Bears team.
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
Thibs seemed cautious. He looked to be at half-speed and was hesitant to make contact on tackles.
After the Saquon touchdown we should have kept feeding him and feeding him. We went away from it and allowed our mediocre QB to get killed while trying to make a play for the worst group of WRs in football.
RE: I'm sure some will ... no, most will disagree with me but
I can see the Giants going with Jones one more year if the right QB isn't available tp us. Obviously the decision on Jones has to be made first but this regime will know if they have a shot at one of the QBs in the draft. Along with that, I think they need to lock up Dex and Love. The reason I say this is because there are so many holes on this team that another draft and FA period can help shore up the supporting cast. Obviously, a franchise QB in the draft trumps everything and if the right guy is there you pull the trigger. I also just cannot imagine giving up a bunch of assets to move up to get a QB and not having the resources to give the kid a fighting chance with how bare our offense is right now. Who will be back next year on offense besides Thomas, Neal, and guys like Bellinger, Ezudu, McKethan, and Lemieux? I truly hope Gates can make a full recovery. There is a good chance almost all our WRs and RBs are gone. This offense needs a complete facelift. This also plays into the fact that Dex and Love should be resigned. Have some consistency on D.
First, thanks again for your analysis - it is always a treat to read with my morning coffee on Tuesdays/Wednesdays.
Do you think that NYG can find better production at ILB from a street FA (Jaylon Smith or someone else) than they're getting from Crowder? This seems to be a position where guys can step into teams midseason and make an impact, plus McKinney is wearing the green dot.
But I think we have to remember they also have some young pieces and lack talent at certain ones. Can’t be expected to hold teams to 20 and under every week.
Robbie, that is what I have been saying about Jones
for the last month. He may be the best option. Problem is free agency is before the draft, so the Giants would have to be completely sure they would get the QB they want in the draft if they dont resign Jones
And then be right about that drafted QB or end up like the Bears with Trubisky and now Fields
great write up sy agree about wink -this paragraph is biggest red flag
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
To your last question, yes. Ojulari was responsible for that huge play down the sideline. It seemed to really break the D at that point in the game. They also both sucked on their run defense..
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
may have been Jones best game as a QB. The numbers weren't there to support it, but he looked "freer" and not so mechanical and he made some nice throws. Unfortunately, 4-6 were dropped that would have extended drives. He was always looking down field. I think that Daboll and Kafka are reaching him. I doubt he becomes worthy of the #6 pick, but he may become a serviceable QB for some other team.
You did not mention it, but on the Dallas 4th and 4 at about the Giants 40 yard line they went for it and Wink had the CBs 10 yards off the ball. What the heck was he thinking? If there was ever time for man, that was it. As I watched, I knew that Dallas would get the 1st when I saw Patrick Graham's defense re-appear....
Time for Slayton to get back on the field. Jones used to have a rapport with him. Perhaps Slayton cannot grasp the route tree that this offense requires.
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
To your last question, yes. Ojulari was responsible for that huge play down the sideline. It seemed to really break the D at that point in the game. They also both sucked on their run defense..
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I have to go back and see the play. I was at the game. Ojulari acted as if it was him and Wink immediately took him off the field the next play and Ward came in.
Barkley absolutely needs to be more of a focus, he should get 25 touches per game. The WR's unit is awful, I'm afraid there are no quick fixes out there, especially given that the guy Jones trusted the most is out for the year. Getting Toney and Wandale on the field would help, but I'm not sure what to expect from Toney at this point.
The OL has been a disappointment. I'm not concerned about Neal (yet!), he's playing on the right side for the first time in over 2 years, and he's learning new pass pro technique. He'll need some time (although he showed me something by owning up to having a bad game). Glowinski and Feliciano have been major disappointments. I guess I shouldn't be surprised about Feliciano, who couldn't get regular runs in BUFF, but Glowinski was a multi-year starter on a good Indy OL. And Bredeson is who we thought he was, a reject picked off of the junk pile.
As for the defense, obviously missed LW, and not only in the run game. Him creating pressure on the inside makes it harder for teams to slide protections outside. Let's see how Thibs and Ojulari do when LW is back in the line-up. Wink's D is dependent on creating pressure, when he doesn't, it's likely to be a long night.
Thanks Sy. I particularly enjoyed your point about Bellinger. He's
getting more attention on offense as the season continues. While I think he has a ways to go both in blocking and receiving, I think he's on his way to developing into a solid starter at tight end.
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I would argue that they both missed assignments. You're right, Holmes did get sucked inside, but Ojulari failed to set the edge.
Great write-up Sy. One positive with Adoree Jackson...
Daniel Jones had a few successful scrambles up the middle. Was his success due primarily to:
1. Blocking by the Guards/Center?
2. Dallas thinning out the middle of their defense as it attacked the edges?
3. Just opportunistic on the part of Jones as the play unfolded?
4. Something else?
Do you believe Evan Neal’s issues are correctable? It seems his issues are with his footwork. Where as Thomas had issues with his technique as a rookie. I get concerned with Tackles that have issues with their footwork. It could mean they are guards instead of Tackles at the NFL level.
and had the ball at midfield, there was a 2nd and 5 that absolutely should have been called a run. I thought it was a back breaker at the time. I think they were flagged on the attempted pass and eventually had to punt.
"His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
Do you believe Evan Neal’s issues are correctable? It seems his issues are with his footwork. Where as Thomas had issues with his technique as a rookie. I get concerned with Tackles that have issues with their footwork. It could mean they are guards instead of Tackles at the NFL level.
Thomas did have "feet issues" too - IIRC he opened up to soon along with poor hand placement. Like Thomas, Neal has good feet. But they are teaching him a new technique completely different to what he learned at Alabama. I think at Alabama they attacked at the snap and NFL you need that quick drop step and keeping the kick slide moving. Also his punch is not consistent. The saying is you need 10,000 reps to build muscle memory. So he has to learn new technique and adjust to the speed of the game at the same time. It will be a difficult year. He is a grinder, humble and driven. He will learn it.
No they shouldnt. Coming off a serious knee injury and now finally healthy, I think that's why they arent riding him into the ground right now. It's a long season and the coaching staff knows they will need his legs late in the year so dont kill him now
Plus Dallas was taking Barkley away in the passing game
No they shouldnt. Coming off a serious knee injury and now finally healthy, I think that's why they arent riding him into the ground right now. It's a long season and the coaching staff knows they will need his legs late in the year so dont kill him now
Plus Dallas was taking Barkley away in the passing game
Agreed. Use him more, but keep him fresh. Breida is a good back up/change of pace.
would it make sense to move Neal to left guard and put Hamilton in at right tackle.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
Good thought here. Does Thomas Glowinski Feliciano Neal Hamilton make more sense than current line up? If Bredeson and Feliciano are struggling would it be better to change up that combination adding Ezudu at least to get the latter more experience if performance is same?
would it make sense to move Neal to left guard and put Hamilton in at right tackle.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
Good thought here. Does Thomas Glowinski Feliciano Neal Hamilton make more sense than current line up? If Bredeson and Feliciano are struggling would it be better to change up that combination adding Ezudu at least to get the latter more experience if performance is same?
Gents, Neal is the RT of the future and present. I appreciate the thought process, but this year's goal is to develop Neal into a dominant NFL RT. Development of the draftees is paramount as much as we want to win. If you move him to guard, you stymie his growth.
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I would argue that they both missed assignments. You're right, Holmes did get sucked inside, but Ojulari failed to set the edge.
I’m beginning to think that we’re all talking about different plays. I guess that’s what happens when a team fails to contain the edge so often during a game.
The play I was referring to was a 3rd & 12 in the second quarter. Pollard gets a toss sweep and gets 27(?) yards. Ojulari is on the backside of that play. Thibs is playside and the farthest man to the outside is Holmes. Thibs gets down blocked by a TE and gives rather shitty effort on the play getting off the block or getting after the ball. Holmes sneaks inside of Lamb, making that block really easy.
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I would argue that they both missed assignments. You're right, Holmes did get sucked inside, but Ojulari failed to set the edge.
I’m beginning to think that we’re all talking about different plays. I guess that’s what happens when a team fails to contain the edge so often during a game.
The play I was referring to was a 3rd & 12 in the second quarter. Pollard gets a toss sweep and gets 27(?) yards. Ojulari is on the backside of that play. Thibs is playside and the farthest man to the outside is Holmes. Thibs gets down blocked by a TE and gives rather shitty effort on the play getting off the block or getting after the ball. Holmes sneaks inside of Lamb, making that block really easy.
Actually, that is Thibs fault for working inside and not holding the edge. Ojulari on the backside would be in pursuit. And the CB on that side should have been coming up. to the LoS.
DAL knows the Giants offensive situation well and they played that Death grip gameplan where you suffocate Barkley, the short and intermediate, knowing the Giants don't have the pass pro or WRs for deep passes.
A talented Defense like DAL will really tee off on you given those favorable playing conditions.
Until the Giants start making plays downfield, they will face these Boa Constrictor-type gameplans. The Giants were in this mess before, and they signed Plax & McKenzie and drafted Chris Snee. There needs to be a similar turnaround personnel-wise again.
Teams with good front 4s or 7s are just going to unleash on our OL until we prove we can stop them.
Our all-in schemes by Wink lack a DT that is a monster at penetrating into the backfield quickly to allow the ERs to free lance.
Dallas outtalents us 2-1 at a minimum, thanks to their drafting that ESPN and Sy noted, and in key positions, so it’s a credit that we hung in so well for 3 qrtrs., even if CR was their QB.
Blake Martinez was let go. It could have been that he wasn't physically able or didn't get along with Wink's scheme, but boy, they could have used him against Dallas. Say what you want about Blake, but he wouldn't have had 4 missed tackles.
would it make sense to move Neal to left guard and put Hamilton in at right tackle.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
Good thought here. Does Thomas Glowinski Feliciano Neal Hamilton make more sense than current line up? If Bredeson and Feliciano are struggling would it be better to change up that combination adding Ezudu at least to get the latter more experience if performance is same?
Gents, Neal is the RT of the future and present. I appreciate the thought process, but this year's goal is to develop Neal into a dominant NFL RT. Development of the draftees is paramount as much as we want to win. If you move him to guard, you stymie his growth.
If anything, I'm replacing Glowinski with Hamilton. Glowinski has been a shit show all season. Neal has struggled, but as you said, you do not want to stunt his development at RT.
If anything, I'm replacing Glowinski with Hamilton. Glowinski has been a shit show all season. Neal has struggled, but as you said, you do not want to stunt his development at RT.
Mike, I would say the Bredersen is the weakest of the weak and he should be the one moved. I'm sure if Ezeudu was near ready he would be in already and he may be there toward the end of the year..
Do you believe Evan Neal’s issues are correctable? It seems his issues are with his footwork. Where as Thomas had issues with his technique as a rookie. I get concerned with Tackles that have issues with their footwork. It could mean they are guards instead of Tackles at the NFL level.
Thomas did have "feet issues" too - IIRC he opened up to soon along with poor hand placement. Like Thomas, Neal has good feet. But they are teaching him a new technique completely different to what he learned at Alabama. I think at Alabama they attacked at the snap and NFL you need that quick drop step and keeping the kick slide moving. Also his punch is not consistent. The saying is you need 10,000 reps to build muscle memory. So he has to learn new technique and adjust to the speed of the game at the same time. It will be a difficult year. He is a grinder, humble and driven. He will learn it.
Thanks, that makes sense since he is learning a brand new technique of blocking. I was just getting worried, because let’s hope that Neal isn’t another Alex Leatherwood who just isn’t an NFL tackle due to poor footwork.
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
When asking, “Who fucked up?” on defense, just assume the answer is Darnay Holmes and you’ll be correct more often than not. He ran inside of the blocker on a blitz so Ceedee Lamb barely had to touch him at all. It was so stupid that I assumed (incorrectly) that he actually didn’t have contain and someone else must’ve screwed up. Just a loser player.
Great stuff as usual, Sy. As I said in the post game thread, Barkley needs to touch the ball more.
Sy, can you tell us what happened on the Giants final play of the half? It appeared that the Cowboys were giving the Giants the first down as well as a clear sideline to get out of bounds quickly. Instead, the Giants are running slants and of course, there’s an incompletion to Golladay. What the heck were they doing?
Darnay Holmes! He practically undressed a Dallas WR in the end zone, and the funniest part of that game (if a Giants fan can find any humor at all) was the look of utter disbelief on the Cowboys sideline.
Sy'56's review is remarkably fair and even forgiving about a very weak, though some argue just still growing, team on both sides of the ball. Only criticism: his list of duds needs to be considerably expanded -- too many worthy of inclusion, and I mean "many," were left off the list. Overall, at least at this stage, the Giants are a team full of duds.
Thomas did have "feet issues" too - IIRC he opened up to soon along with poor hand placement. Like Thomas, Neal has good feet. But they are teaching him a new technique completely different to what he learned at Alabama. I think at Alabama they attacked at the snap and NFL you need that quick drop step and keeping the kick slide moving. Also his punch is not consistent. The saying is you need 10,000 reps to build muscle memory. So he has to learn new technique and adjust to the speed of the game at the same time. It will be a difficult year. He is a grinder, humble and driven. He will learn it.
Good post. The only thing I would add is that if the worst thing is Neal getting kicked inside and being an all-pro level OG, than I am not at all concerned.
Jones had 79 yards rushing on 9 carries to Barkley’s 81 on 14 carries. I know SB had a TD.
And then of course Jones threw for almost 200 yards plus several big drops with no turnovers (excluding last play of the game where WR fell down). And Barkley didn’t have to take the beating Jones took either….26 Dallas pressures which included 5 sacks without giving up a turnover to give them a short field leading to points for them.
Not to mention Jones is being forced to throw to guys who probably could not make any other team’s 53 man squad.
I’m sorry, but just because Saquon scored a TD, that is only one play. Jones had to run for his life to make first down multiple times. Without his runs, we probably don’t score any points.
He wants to be great. This year will be as rough as AT's first year. He is going to be nasty and mean for a decade. He will come back next year with the strength to punish people. Angry and driven.
Jones had 79 yards rushing on 9 carries to Barkley’s 81 on 14 carries. I know SB had a TD.
And then of course Jones threw for almost 200 yards plus several big drops with no turnovers (excluding last play of the game where WR fell down). And Barkley didn’t have to take the beating Jones took either….26 Dallas pressures which included 5 sacks without giving up a turnover to give them a short field leading to points for them.
Not to mention Jones is being forced to throw to guys who probably could not make any other team’s 53 man squad.
I’m sorry, but just because Saquon scored a TD, that is only one play. Jones had to run for his life to make first down multiple times. Without his runs, we probably don’t score any points.
If you count dropped passes. Dropped crippling interceptions count too. Can't have it only one way.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
If you go to around the 1 min mark on this video there's a bunch of Thomas vs Parsons reps. Thomas got the best of him much of the time Link - ( New Window )
Jones had 79 yards rushing on 9 carries to Barkley’s 81 on 14 carries. I know SB had a TD.
And then of course Jones threw for almost 200 yards plus several big drops with no turnovers (excluding last play of the game where WR fell down). And Barkley didn’t have to take the beating Jones took either….26 Dallas pressures which included 5 sacks without giving up a turnover to give them a short field leading to points for them.
Not to mention Jones is being forced to throw to guys who probably could not make any other team’s 53 man squad.
I’m sorry, but just because Saquon scored a TD, that is only one play. Jones had to run for his life to make first down multiple times. Without his runs, we probably don’t score any points.
If you count dropped passes. Dropped crippling interceptions count too. Can't have it only one way.
Of course. One dropped INT vs 6 dropped on the money passes...
review. Barkley and Jones's running is 90% of our offense. Bellinger is another 5%, and the WRs combined are the last 5%. Hard to move the ball in that situation.
Neal is having growing pains as most tackles do. Give it time. Let him settle in to one position. He bounced around a lot on the OL in college IIRC.
Kayvon was in his first NFL game and coming back from a knee injury. Patience.
Big game against Chicago this week. We need to do a better job stopping the run and spy Fields.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
I got the distinct impression that Dallas didn't line Parsons much against Thomas on purpose. Parsons didn't do well against Thomas last year. He spent most of the time on the left side this game. Damontre Moore had a big game because of that.
Wink should strategize for that next game. Parsons isn't going to go up against Thomas on a regular basis. Dallas is going to try to play whatever side Parsons is on to a strength, using someone else to penetrate. Easy to see.
Jones (and any other aspect of this team), I still get the sense fans are coming to conclusions based on the last game played.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Quote: I got the distinct impression that Dallas didn't line Parsons much against Thomas on purpose. Parsons didn't do well against Thomas last year. He spent most of the time on the left side this game. Damontre Moore had a big game because of that.
Wink should strategize for that next game. Parsons isn't going to go up against Thomas on a regular basis. Dallas is going to try to play whatever side Parsons is on to a strength, using someone else to penetrate. Easy to see.
Sloppy. I said Damontre Moore. I meant DeMarcus Lawrence.
The interior of the line has sucked, especially with pass protection. Very disappointing. AT is a stud & Neal is a rookie so he's going to take him lumps, but the interior...come the F on guys.
First, thanks again for your analysis - it is always a treat to read with my morning coffee on Tuesdays/Wednesdays.
Do you think that NYG can find better production at ILB from a street FA (Jaylon Smith or someone else) than they're getting from Crowder? This seems to be a position where guys can step into teams midseason and make an impact, plus McKinney is wearing the green dot.
The missed tackles are brutal.
I've never been big on Crowder so my answer is knowingly bias. Will a street FA like Smith provide better play? Unless they know the scheme already, I would hesitate before saying yes.
But I don't think we see an automatic downgrade if this occurs. Crowder has a few nice traits and I think he has far-exceeded expectations of a 7th rounder. But when looking at what this defense needs from ILB - I don't see it here. So why not open the door to street free agents?
But I think we have to remember they also have some young pieces and lack talent at certain ones. Can’t be expected to hold teams to 20 and under every week.
You're right. They weren't "great." They were bad.
Daniel Jones had a few successful scrambles up the middle. Was his success due primarily to:
1. Blocking by the Guards/Center?
2. Dallas thinning out the middle of their defense as it attacked the edges?
3. Just opportunistic on the part of Jones as the play unfolded?
4. Something else?
Any insights greatly appreciated.
Jones saw the running lanes in a hurry and knew he had to take what was there. I credit his decision making and underrated athletic ability.
Do you believe Evan Neal’s issues are correctable? It seems his issues are with his footwork. Where as Thomas had issues with his technique as a rookie. I get concerned with Tackles that have issues with their footwork. It could mean they are guards instead of Tackles at the NFL level.
I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried.
Correctable? Yes. Neal is an elite athlete but it does not always show up on the field. My basis for hope is the fact he CAN move at a high level. My basis for fear is he's been starting against high level competition for years under good coaching and we are seeing similar issues arise.
RE: great write up sy agree about wink -this paragraph is biggest red flag
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
Time for Slayton to get back on the field. Jones used to have a rapport with him. Perhaps Slayton cannot grasp the route tree that this offense requires.
Perhaps Slayton stinks and the "rapport" they had puts no fear in any NFL quality defensive team.
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
cap numbers can be manipulated however you want. Glowinski's AAV is 6.1m and Feliciano's is 3.25m. Shaq Mason's cap hit this year is 2.3m, 1m lower than feliciano's on a 9m AAV deal after going to tampa from NE for a 5th round pick. he's a little younger and been a better player than both of them.
the combined amounts they gave glowinski/feliciano are more than every IOL from last year's FA market except Scherff and Tomlinson. So they had their choice of most of the IOL market with only a few exceptions.
I don't even watch the all-22 so I can't speak to this but especially with the lack of deep speed in our receiving group. I'd love to see Barkley get snuck out on go routes more often, again not sure how much this is happening. But as a rookie I feel like these looks worked well for him. I remember that one play at a critical moment where he came back to the ball and jumped and made a WR like grab on it. Especially with all the short passes they are getting to him, could also keep the defense honest on that
RE: RE: RE: great write up sy agree about wink -this paragraph is biggest red flag
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
cap numbers can be manipulated however you want. Glowinski's AAV is 6.1m and Feliciano's is 3.25m. Shaq Mason's cap hit this year is 2.3m, 1m lower than feliciano's on a 9m AAV deal after going to tampa from NE for a 5th round pick. he's a little younger and been a better player than both of them.
the combined amounts they gave glowinski/feliciano are more than every IOL from last year's FA market except Scherff and Tomlinson. So they had their choice of most of the IOL market with only a few exceptions.
Or we don't compare other teams signings instead we look at the specific players the Giants signed. As it says below in the link:
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/136862976
=======================
"We knew we weren't going to be players for the scherff's and we know they were cap strapped . . . we add two players I would say are competent . . . I like Glowinski here but I want to temper the expecataions. The aren't true difference makers."
========================
This a a ceiling of "Mediocrity" - that's what the Giants signed. But when mediocrity goes against a very good defense, what are you expecting?
Glowinski is the better of the 2. Well I read he struggles with pass blocking. Well Felicano got cut. He got cut. He might be okay at his best but what can you expect from him overall? Maybe mediocrity but probably worse. And the other guard spot is weak. And the RT now is weak.
The other teams have pro players too. And when a superior talented defensive unit goes against a weaker OL unit - the OL is gonna lose. Granted they could be better but if their weakness is pass blocking and two players that surrounding them are a bit overmatched this early too and they are going against superior Defensive talent, --
What are you expecting? I can see if you are highly frustrated with a player that was supposed to be good and he sucks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: great write up sy agree about wink -this paragraph is biggest red flag
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
cap numbers can be manipulated however you want. Glowinski's AAV is 6.1m and Feliciano's is 3.25m. Shaq Mason's cap hit this year is 2.3m, 1m lower than feliciano's on a 9m AAV deal after going to tampa from NE for a 5th round pick. he's a little younger and been a better player than both of them.
the combined amounts they gave glowinski/feliciano are more than every IOL from last year's FA market except Scherff and Tomlinson. So they had their choice of most of the IOL market with only a few exceptions.
Or we don't compare other teams signings instead we look at the specific players the Giants signed. As it says below in the link:
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/136862976
=======================
"We knew we weren't going to be players for the scherff's and we know they were cap strapped . . . we add two players I would say are competent . . . I like Glowinski here but I want to temper the expecataions. The aren't true difference makers."
========================
This a a ceiling of "Mediocrity" - that's what the Giants signed. But when mediocrity goes against a very good defense, what are you expecting?
Glowinski is the better of the 2. Well I read he struggles with pass blocking. Well Felicano got cut. He got cut. He might be okay at his best but what can you expect from him overall? Maybe mediocrity but probably worse. And the other guard spot is weak. And the RT now is weak.
The other teams have pro players too. And when a superior talented defensive unit goes against a weaker OL unit - the OL is gonna lose. Granted they could be better but if their weakness is pass blocking and two players that surrounding them are a bit overmatched this early too and they are going against superior Defensive talent, --
What are you expecting? I can see if you are highly frustrated with a player that was supposed to be good and he sucks.
I totally agree with your comment. It is what it is for right now and this is what it is to be expected. The previous two opponents for the Giants were weaker defensive and did not expose as much as Dallas did. This is a work in progress and may take 2 to 3 years to build this online. We are just going to have to sit tight, unfortunately. They are going to be growing pains with Evan, as this happened to Andrew Thomas as a rookie. Investment in the interior line is a priority.
A play that really pissed me off was the 3rd and 12 toss for a 1st down. I've never seen an edge so wide open in my life.
I can't be angry with the result because I felt overall, DAL kicked their butts and the score probably should've been worse. To lay such a huge egg defensively in front of that crowd is tough to understand.
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
A play that really pissed me off was the 3rd and 12 toss for a 1st down. I've never seen an edge so wide open in my life.
I can't be angry with the result because I felt overall, DAL kicked their butts and the score probably should've been worse. To lay such a huge egg defensively in front of that crowd is tough to understand.
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
To your last question, yes. Ojulari was responsible for that huge play down the sideline. It seemed to really break the D at that point in the game. They also both sucked on their run defense..
M.S. - I have no idea. But there were frustrating plays like that all night. Another play that sticks out is the play Dexter Lawrence got instant heat up the middle. That should've been an easy sack but Rush just wings it downfield and a guy is wide open. Ridiculous that someone would be open downfield like that as soon as the QB takes the snap.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
I also think having an inside linebacker that gets pushed around and takes bad angles kills them, i notice a lot of time Crowser tries to shoot gaps instead of stringing out those stretch run plays and leaves creases in the defense. Sometimes Love or Mckonney can fill it but if they dont, its a long run.
Things like that kill a defense..
But what's the alternative, keep them rusty during a rebuilding season?
Understand the process.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
It's not that I feel better about him. I'm just being realistic. If a top QB becomes available then you take a shot but odds are there won't be so what are our options? I can't imagine Jones will be in high demand. That is why I feel Jones and the Giants can make sense for 1 more year together as a stop gap until we build up this offense. Again, any top QB available trumps anything but what if there isn't one? FA happens before the draft so it is hard to predict we can get a specific guy. That's all I am saying.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Dallas' D on was on freaking point! You can see on the film they had those intermediate crossing routes locked down halfway through this all-22 film.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
Agreed, i have felt differently about Jones after every game, actually i have felt the best about Jones after the loss to Dallas
Quote:
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Are you sure about that? The right side of the offense isn't the strong side. From my view, he was primarily an off the ball LB. I know Dallas moves him all over but I wouldn't say he goes to the strong side. I think Dallas would want him on the weak side to get him rushing against less blockers.
Quote:
In comment 15836203 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Are you sure about that? The right side of the offense isn't the strong side. From my view, he was primarily an off the ball LB. I know Dallas moves him all over but I wouldn't say he goes to the strong side. I think Dallas would want him on the weak side to get him rushing against less blockers.
The strong side changes on every snap, it depends on how the offense is lined up
Quote:
In comment 15836209 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15836203 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Are you sure about that? The right side of the offense isn't the strong side. From my view, he was primarily an off the ball LB. I know Dallas moves him all over but I wouldn't say he goes to the strong side. I think Dallas would want him on the weak side to get him rushing against less blockers.
The strong side changes on every snap, it depends on how the offense is lined up
Lol. I know, hence my post.
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
When asking, “Who fucked up?” on defense, just assume the answer is Darnay Holmes and you’ll be correct more often than not. He ran inside of the blocker on a blitz so Ceedee Lamb barely had to touch him at all. It was so stupid that I assumed (incorrectly) that he actually didn’t have contain and someone else must’ve screwed up. Just a loser player.
Great stuff as usual, Sy. As I said in the post game thread, Barkley needs to touch the ball more.
Sy, can you tell us what happened on the Giants final play of the half? It appeared that the Cowboys were giving the Giants the first down as well as a clear sideline to get out of bounds quickly. Instead, the Giants are running slants and of course, there’s an incompletion to Golladay. What the heck were they doing?
M.S. - I have no idea. But there were frustrating plays like that all night. Another play that sticks out is the play Dexter Lawrence got instant heat up the middle. That should've been an easy sack but Rush just wings it downfield and a guy is wide open. Ridiculous that someone would be open downfield like that as soon as the QB takes the snap.
Yep. I groaned when that happened. I'm hoping the team has got that Dallas game out of its system since there are no guarantees against the clawless Bears!
Quote:
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
When asking, “Who fucked up?” on defense, just assume the answer is Darnay Holmes and you’ll be correct more often than not. He ran inside of the blocker on a blitz so Ceedee Lamb barely had to touch him at all. It was so stupid that I assumed (incorrectly) that he actually didn’t have contain and someone else must’ve screwed up. Just a loser player.
Great stuff as usual, Sy. As I said in the post game thread, Barkley needs to touch the ball more.
Sy, can you tell us what happened on the Giants final play of the half? It appeared that the Cowboys were giving the Giants the first down as well as a clear sideline to get out of bounds quickly. Instead, the Giants are running slants and of course, there’s an incompletion to Golladay. What the heck were they doing?
Darnay Holmes! He practically undressed a Dallas WR in the end zone, and the funniest part of that game (if a Giants fan can find any humor at all) was the look of utter disbelief on the Cowboys sideline.
Quote:
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Parson’s moves all over the formation on defense and rushes from multiple positions, he doesn’t “typically” line up anywhere. I’m not sure what him knocking Glowinski on his but has to do with how he faired against Andrew Thomas.
Quote:
In comment 15836203 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Parsons moves all over the formation on defense and rushes from multiple positions, he doesn’t “typically” line up anywhere. I’m not sure what him knocking Glowinski on his but has to do with how he faired against Andrew Thomas.
What I was getting at was that Parsons didn't usually line up against Andrew Thomas when rushing the passer. Perhaps he saw Neal and Glowinski as weak links.
Quote:
Jones (and any other aspect of this team), I still get the sense fans are coming to conclusions based on the last game played.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
It's not that I feel better about him. I'm just being realistic. If a top QB becomes available then you take a shot but odds are there won't be so what are our options? I can't imagine Jones will be in high demand. That is why I feel Jones and the Giants can make sense for 1 more year together as a stop gap until we build up this offense. Again, any top QB available trumps anything but what if there isn't one? FA happens before the draft so it is hard to predict we can get a specific guy. That's all I am saying.
Robbie, agree, and not based on last night. I’ve said before, I think it’s 50-50 whether DJ is back or not. If they can upgrade, they will. But unless they totally tank, I doubt they’ll be in a position draft a prospect that has a chance to be an upgrade. And FA is unlikely to be the answer.
Quote:
In comment 15836209 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15836203 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Parsons typically lines up on the strong side of the offense, either as the LDE (he did that a lot more last year with Demarcus Lawrence out) or as a blitzer. He knocked Glowinski on his butt during the second quarter.
Parsons moves all over the formation on defense and rushes from multiple positions, he doesn’t “typically” line up anywhere. I’m not sure what him knocking Glowinski on his but has to do with how he faired against Andrew Thomas.
What I was getting at was that Parsons didn't usually line up against Andrew Thomas when rushing the passer. Perhaps he saw Neal and Glowinski as weak links.
I'm sure him or Quinn picked out the right side as the easier to rush on for obvious reasons, but again, I was really just wanting to focus on the few match ups he had against Thomas. I knew they wouldn't be lined up exclusively.
Instead they moved effortlessly down the field and scored. That gave them renewed energy and when they forced us to punt quickly, our defense again failed to hold up and allowed Dallas to score what turned out to be the winning points really.
Our defense failed horribly in plays that mattered both in momentum terms, field position terms and obviously the score. It was very disappointing.
You can crap on the Oline (it played badly) and our joke receiving corps but, the game turned on the defense. SY mentioned something early about the offense making plays with motion, and movement by Jones, and tempo. All of those things are in play when the game is our favor, tied or very close. Once you fall behind and now time becomes an issue you cannot rely on that scheming to work as Dallas no longer fears the gimmicky stuff and knows the plays are all within 15/20 yards tops and more likely within 7-12 yards.
I think Kafka and Daboll deserve huge credit for scheming enough that our offense, featuring James, Sils and SS (who has never been great or the #1 here), along with Bellinger, Myrick and Hudson at TE.. The fact that we had the lead says a lot about our ability to create plays even without playmakers.
Buffalo had a similar problem and then they traded for Diggs, drafted Knox and Davis and drafted multiple RB's to play a committee type role (ie why I don't see us signing Barkley to HUGE money.
This game was lost by our defense and they better show up this weekend and provide some HELP to the offense against a very poor Bears team.
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
Thibs seemed cautious. He looked to be at half-speed and was hesitant to make contact on tackles.
count me in as being on your side here on DJ
Do you think that NYG can find better production at ILB from a street FA (Jaylon Smith or someone else) than they're getting from Crowder? This seems to be a position where guys can step into teams midseason and make an impact, plus McKinney is wearing the green dot.
The missed tackles are brutal.
But what's the alternative, keep them rusty during a rebuilding season?
Understand the process.
Easy for fans to take the long view in the summer, hard when they're the playing the Cowboys lol
And then be right about that drafted QB or end up like the Bears with Trubisky and now Fields
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
Quote:
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
To your last question, yes. Ojulari was responsible for that huge play down the sideline. It seemed to really break the D at that point in the game. They also both sucked on their run defense..
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
You did not mention it, but on the Dallas 4th and 4 at about the Giants 40 yard line they went for it and Wink had the CBs 10 yards off the ball. What the heck was he thinking? If there was ever time for man, that was it. As I watched, I knew that Dallas would get the 1st when I saw Patrick Graham's defense re-appear....
Time for Slayton to get back on the field. Jones used to have a rapport with him. Perhaps Slayton cannot grasp the route tree that this offense requires.
Quote:
In comment 15836189 M.S. said:
Quote:
for your informative analysis of Dallas game, which is brutally honest and fair. The following quote just about sums up what Daniel Jones has going for him right now: "Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
You are also dead-on about Saquon Barkley not getting enough touches. And it really is a mystery IMO why the Giants defense got so abused. I realize their best defender missed the game due to injury, but the fall-off in play was quite dramatic, especially against a Dallas O-line that is banged up, not to mention a back-up QB. Just terrible. And confusing!
Crazy Question: Did the re-introduction of Ojulari and Thibs hurt -- more than help -- this defense against Dallas?
To your last question, yes. Ojulari was responsible for that huge play down the sideline. It seemed to really break the D at that point in the game. They also both sucked on their run defense..
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I have to go back and see the play. I was at the game. Ojulari acted as if it was him and Wink immediately took him off the field the next play and Ward came in.
The OL has been a disappointment. I'm not concerned about Neal (yet!), he's playing on the right side for the first time in over 2 years, and he's learning new pass pro technique. He'll need some time (although he showed me something by owning up to having a bad game). Glowinski and Feliciano have been major disappointments. I guess I shouldn't be surprised about Feliciano, who couldn't get regular runs in BUFF, but Glowinski was a multi-year starter on a good Indy OL. And Bredeson is who we thought he was, a reject picked off of the junk pile.
As for the defense, obviously missed LW, and not only in the run game. Him creating pressure on the inside makes it harder for teams to slide protections outside. Let's see how Thibs and Ojulari do when LW is back in the line-up. Wink's D is dependent on creating pressure, when he doesn't, it's likely to be a long night.
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I would argue that they both missed assignments. You're right, Holmes did get sucked inside, but Ojulari failed to set the edge.
Last year it seemed he avoided contact, but this year he has been really good at that.
Also he did give up two big plays to Lamb but jeez there was zero pass rush.
Daniel Jones had a few successful scrambles up the middle. Was his success due primarily to:
1. Blocking by the Guards/Center?
2. Dallas thinning out the middle of their defense as it attacked the edges?
3. Just opportunistic on the part of Jones as the play unfolded?
4. Something else?
Any insights greatly appreciated.
Hmmmmmmm...........
Thomas did have "feet issues" too - IIRC he opened up to soon along with poor hand placement. Like Thomas, Neal has good feet. But they are teaching him a new technique completely different to what he learned at Alabama. I think at Alabama they attacked at the snap and NFL you need that quick drop step and keeping the kick slide moving. Also his punch is not consistent. The saying is you need 10,000 reps to build muscle memory. So he has to learn new technique and adjust to the speed of the game at the same time. It will be a difficult year. He is a grinder, humble and driven. He will learn it.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
No they shouldnt. Coming off a serious knee injury and now finally healthy, I think that's why they arent riding him into the ground right now. It's a long season and the coaching staff knows they will need his legs late in the year so dont kill him now
Plus Dallas was taking Barkley away in the passing game
Quote:
They should be riding him into the ground.
No they shouldnt. Coming off a serious knee injury and now finally healthy, I think that's why they arent riding him into the ground right now. It's a long season and the coaching staff knows they will need his legs late in the year so dont kill him now
Plus Dallas was taking Barkley away in the passing game
Agreed. Use him more, but keep him fresh. Breida is a good back up/change of pace.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
Good thought here. Does Thomas Glowinski Feliciano Neal Hamilton make more sense than current line up? If Bredeson and Feliciano are struggling would it be better to change up that combination adding Ezudu at least to get the latter more experience if performance is same?
Quote:
would it make sense to move Neal to left guard and put Hamilton in at right tackle.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
Good thought here. Does Thomas Glowinski Feliciano Neal Hamilton make more sense than current line up? If Bredeson and Feliciano are struggling would it be better to change up that combination adding Ezudu at least to get the latter more experience if performance is same?
Gents, Neal is the RT of the future and present. I appreciate the thought process, but this year's goal is to develop Neal into a dominant NFL RT. Development of the draftees is paramount as much as we want to win. If you move him to guard, you stymie his growth.
Quote:
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I would argue that they both missed assignments. You're right, Holmes did get sucked inside, but Ojulari failed to set the edge.
I’m beginning to think that we’re all talking about different plays. I guess that’s what happens when a team fails to contain the edge so often during a game.
The play I was referring to was a 3rd & 12 in the second quarter. Pollard gets a toss sweep and gets 27(?) yards. Ojulari is on the backside of that play. Thibs is playside and the farthest man to the outside is Holmes. Thibs gets down blocked by a TE and gives rather shitty effort on the play getting off the block or getting after the ball. Holmes sneaks inside of Lamb, making that block really easy.
Quote:
In comment 15836306 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
The guy that missed the assignment was not Ojulari it was Holmes. He got sucked inside rushing and it left the edge wide open. Sy mentions the fact this happened twice to Holmes. Holmes is also a penalty waiting to happen. Twice got away with blatant holds. With him on Crowder taking all these snaps the defense will suffer. Both are IMO practice squad caliber.
I would argue that they both missed assignments. You're right, Holmes did get sucked inside, but Ojulari failed to set the edge.
I’m beginning to think that we’re all talking about different plays. I guess that’s what happens when a team fails to contain the edge so often during a game.
The play I was referring to was a 3rd & 12 in the second quarter. Pollard gets a toss sweep and gets 27(?) yards. Ojulari is on the backside of that play. Thibs is playside and the farthest man to the outside is Holmes. Thibs gets down blocked by a TE and gives rather shitty effort on the play getting off the block or getting after the ball. Holmes sneaks inside of Lamb, making that block really easy.
Actually, that is Thibs fault for working inside and not holding the edge. Ojulari on the backside would be in pursuit. And the CB on that side should have been coming up. to the LoS.
A talented Defense like DAL will really tee off on you given those favorable playing conditions.
Until the Giants start making plays downfield, they will face these Boa Constrictor-type gameplans. The Giants were in this mess before, and they signed Plax & McKenzie and drafted Chris Snee. There needs to be a similar turnaround personnel-wise again.
Our all-in schemes by Wink lack a DT that is a monster at penetrating into the backfield quickly to allow the ERs to free lance.
Dallas outtalents us 2-1 at a minimum, thanks to their drafting that ESPN and Sy noted, and in key positions, so it’s a credit that we hung in so well for 3 qrtrs., even if CR was their QB.
Quote:
In comment 15836411 kelly said:
Quote:
would it make sense to move Neal to left guard and put Hamilton in at right tackle.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
Good thought here. Does Thomas Glowinski Feliciano Neal Hamilton make more sense than current line up? If Bredeson and Feliciano are struggling would it be better to change up that combination adding Ezudu at least to get the latter more experience if performance is same?
Gents, Neal is the RT of the future and present. I appreciate the thought process, but this year's goal is to develop Neal into a dominant NFL RT. Development of the draftees is paramount as much as we want to win. If you move him to guard, you stymie his growth.
If anything, I'm replacing Glowinski with Hamilton. Glowinski has been a shit show all season. Neal has struggled, but as you said, you do not want to stunt his development at RT.
So much for me and many others being DJ fan boys. Just watching and observing and being objective.
If anything, I'm replacing Glowinski with Hamilton. Glowinski has been a shit show all season. Neal has struggled, but as you said, you do not want to stunt his development at RT.
Mike, I would say the Bredersen is the weakest of the weak and he should be the one moved. I'm sure if Ezeudu was near ready he would be in already and he may be there toward the end of the year..
Quote:
Do you believe Evan Neal’s issues are correctable? It seems his issues are with his footwork. Where as Thomas had issues with his technique as a rookie. I get concerned with Tackles that have issues with their footwork. It could mean they are guards instead of Tackles at the NFL level.
Thomas did have "feet issues" too - IIRC he opened up to soon along with poor hand placement. Like Thomas, Neal has good feet. But they are teaching him a new technique completely different to what he learned at Alabama. I think at Alabama they attacked at the snap and NFL you need that quick drop step and keeping the kick slide moving. Also his punch is not consistent. The saying is you need 10,000 reps to build muscle memory. So he has to learn new technique and adjust to the speed of the game at the same time. It will be a difficult year. He is a grinder, humble and driven. He will learn it.
Thanks, that makes sense since he is learning a brand new technique of blocking. I was just getting worried, because let’s hope that Neal isn’t another Alex Leatherwood who just isn’t an NFL tackle due to poor footwork.
Quote:
In comment 15836190 M.S. said:
Quote:
That toss to the left was a killer. Do you recall who was on the edge trying to contain that play?
When asking, “Who fucked up?” on defense, just assume the answer is Darnay Holmes and you’ll be correct more often than not. He ran inside of the blocker on a blitz so Ceedee Lamb barely had to touch him at all. It was so stupid that I assumed (incorrectly) that he actually didn’t have contain and someone else must’ve screwed up. Just a loser player.
Great stuff as usual, Sy. As I said in the post game thread, Barkley needs to touch the ball more.
Sy, can you tell us what happened on the Giants final play of the half? It appeared that the Cowboys were giving the Giants the first down as well as a clear sideline to get out of bounds quickly. Instead, the Giants are running slants and of course, there’s an incompletion to Golladay. What the heck were they doing?
Darnay Holmes! He practically undressed a Dallas WR in the end zone, and the funniest part of that game (if a Giants fan can find any humor at all) was the look of utter disbelief on the Cowboys sideline.
Sy'56's review is remarkably fair and even forgiving about a very weak, though some argue just still growing, team on both sides of the ball. Only criticism: his list of duds needs to be considerably expanded -- too many worthy of inclusion, and I mean "many," were left off the list. Overall, at least at this stage, the Giants are a team full of duds.
Thomas did have "feet issues" too - IIRC he opened up to soon along with poor hand placement. Like Thomas, Neal has good feet. But they are teaching him a new technique completely different to what he learned at Alabama. I think at Alabama they attacked at the snap and NFL you need that quick drop step and keeping the kick slide moving. Also his punch is not consistent. The saying is you need 10,000 reps to build muscle memory. So he has to learn new technique and adjust to the speed of the game at the same time. It will be a difficult year. He is a grinder, humble and driven. He will learn it.
Good post. The only thing I would add is that if the worst thing is Neal getting kicked inside and being an all-pro level OG, than I am not at all concerned.
Jones had 79 yards rushing on 9 carries to Barkley’s 81 on 14 carries. I know SB had a TD.
And then of course Jones threw for almost 200 yards plus several big drops with no turnovers (excluding last play of the game where WR fell down). And Barkley didn’t have to take the beating Jones took either….26 Dallas pressures which included 5 sacks without giving up a turnover to give them a short field leading to points for them.
Not to mention Jones is being forced to throw to guys who probably could not make any other team’s 53 man squad.
I’m sorry, but just because Saquon scored a TD, that is only one play. Jones had to run for his life to make first down multiple times. Without his runs, we probably don’t score any points.
Jones had 79 yards rushing on 9 carries to Barkley’s 81 on 14 carries. I know SB had a TD.
And then of course Jones threw for almost 200 yards plus several big drops with no turnovers (excluding last play of the game where WR fell down). And Barkley didn’t have to take the beating Jones took either….26 Dallas pressures which included 5 sacks without giving up a turnover to give them a short field leading to points for them.
Not to mention Jones is being forced to throw to guys who probably could not make any other team’s 53 man squad.
I’m sorry, but just because Saquon scored a TD, that is only one play. Jones had to run for his life to make first down multiple times. Without his runs, we probably don’t score any points.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
If you go to around the 1 min mark on this video there's a bunch of Thomas vs Parsons reps. Thomas got the best of him much of the time
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
I don’t see how Barkley gets a star over Jones.
Jones had 79 yards rushing on 9 carries to Barkley’s 81 on 14 carries. I know SB had a TD.
And then of course Jones threw for almost 200 yards plus several big drops with no turnovers (excluding last play of the game where WR fell down). And Barkley didn’t have to take the beating Jones took either….26 Dallas pressures which included 5 sacks without giving up a turnover to give them a short field leading to points for them.
Not to mention Jones is being forced to throw to guys who probably could not make any other team’s 53 man squad.
I’m sorry, but just because Saquon scored a TD, that is only one play. Jones had to run for his life to make first down multiple times. Without his runs, we probably don’t score any points.
If you count dropped passes. Dropped crippling interceptions count too. Can't have it only one way.
Of course. One dropped INT vs 6 dropped on the money passes...
Neal is having growing pains as most tackles do. Give it time. Let him settle in to one position. He bounced around a lot on the OL in college IIRC.
Kayvon was in his first NFL game and coming back from a knee injury. Patience.
Big game against Chicago this week. We need to do a better job stopping the run and spy Fields.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Wink should strategize for that next game. Parsons isn't going to go up against Thomas on a regular basis. Dallas is going to try to play whatever side Parsons is on to a strength, using someone else to penetrate. Easy to see.
No one should be making conclusions on any personnel based on any one game, particularly the last game played.
Wait until the 17-game season is over and then make you decision on the QB position, and other positions.
Some fans feel better about Jones right now because he wasn't the reason the team lost on Monday. They may feel differently if he throws four picks against the Bears.
Then what the hell are we gonna talk about! lol
Quote:
I think at least some of us were hoping to see the Thomas/Parsons match up to gauge where Thomas really is as we're starting to hear the "best defensive player in football" whispers about Parsons.
Very few match,ups and one ugly rep where it looked like Thomas went to pass him off to Breida, who got trucked and tripped all 3. What I will say, in the very few match ups between the 2, Parsons seemed to be on the ground a lot.
Encouraging to see as we're going to have to deal with Parsons for a long time.
Quote: I got the distinct impression that Dallas didn't line Parsons much against Thomas on purpose. Parsons didn't do well against Thomas last year. He spent most of the time on the left side this game. Damontre Moore had a big game because of that.
Wink should strategize for that next game. Parsons isn't going to go up against Thomas on a regular basis. Dallas is going to try to play whatever side Parsons is on to a strength, using someone else to penetrate. Easy to see.
Sloppy. I said Damontre Moore. I meant DeMarcus Lawrence.
Do you think that NYG can find better production at ILB from a street FA (Jaylon Smith or someone else) than they're getting from Crowder? This seems to be a position where guys can step into teams midseason and make an impact, plus McKinney is wearing the green dot.
The missed tackles are brutal.
I've never been big on Crowder so my answer is knowingly bias. Will a street FA like Smith provide better play? Unless they know the scheme already, I would hesitate before saying yes.
But I don't think we see an automatic downgrade if this occurs. Crowder has a few nice traits and I think he has far-exceeded expectations of a 7th rounder. But when looking at what this defense needs from ILB - I don't see it here. So why not open the door to street free agents?
You're right. They weren't "great." They were bad.
Daniel Jones had a few successful scrambles up the middle. Was his success due primarily to:
1. Blocking by the Guards/Center?
2. Dallas thinning out the middle of their defense as it attacked the edges?
3. Just opportunistic on the part of Jones as the play unfolded?
4. Something else?
Any insights greatly appreciated.
Jones saw the running lanes in a hurry and knew he had to take what was there. I credit his decision making and underrated athletic ability.
I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried.
Correctable? Yes. Neal is an elite athlete but it does not always show up on the field. My basis for hope is the fact he CAN move at a high level. My basis for fear is he's been starting against high level competition for years under good coaching and we are seeing similar issues arise.
Quote:
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
Time for Slayton to get back on the field. Jones used to have a rapport with him. Perhaps Slayton cannot grasp the route tree that this offense requires.
Perhaps Slayton stinks and the "rapport" they had puts no fear in any NFL quality defensive team.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
Not right now. You give a guy like Neal 2 full seasons at tackle before even thinking about him at OG
Quote:
early on this season for me.
Quote:
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
cap numbers can be manipulated however you want. Glowinski's AAV is 6.1m and Feliciano's is 3.25m. Shaq Mason's cap hit this year is 2.3m, 1m lower than feliciano's on a 9m AAV deal after going to tampa from NE for a 5th round pick. he's a little younger and been a better player than both of them.
the combined amounts they gave glowinski/feliciano are more than every IOL from last year's FA market except Scherff and Tomlinson. So they had their choice of most of the IOL market with only a few exceptions.
Glowinski looks pretty rough. I didn't know anything about him. He was billed as tried and true NFL starter. He's disappointing.
Quote:
In comment 15836299 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
early on this season for me.
Quote:
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
cap numbers can be manipulated however you want. Glowinski's AAV is 6.1m and Feliciano's is 3.25m. Shaq Mason's cap hit this year is 2.3m, 1m lower than feliciano's on a 9m AAV deal after going to tampa from NE for a 5th round pick. he's a little younger and been a better player than both of them.
the combined amounts they gave glowinski/feliciano are more than every IOL from last year's FA market except Scherff and Tomlinson. So they had their choice of most of the IOL market with only a few exceptions.
Or we don't compare other teams signings instead we look at the specific players the Giants signed. As it says below in the link:
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/136862976
=======================
"We knew we weren't going to be players for the scherff's and we know they were cap strapped . . . we add two players I would say are competent . . . I like Glowinski here but I want to temper the expecataions. The aren't true difference makers."
========================
This a a ceiling of "Mediocrity" - that's what the Giants signed. But when mediocrity goes against a very good defense, what are you expecting?
Glowinski is the better of the 2. Well I read he struggles with pass blocking. Well Felicano got cut. He got cut. He might be okay at his best but what can you expect from him overall? Maybe mediocrity but probably worse. And the other guard spot is weak. And the RT now is weak.
The other teams have pro players too. And when a superior talented defensive unit goes against a weaker OL unit - the OL is gonna lose. Granted they could be better but if their weakness is pass blocking and two players that surrounding them are a bit overmatched this early too and they are going against superior Defensive talent, --
What are you expecting? I can see if you are highly frustrated with a player that was supposed to be good and he sucks.
Quote:
In comment 15837228 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15836299 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
early on this season for me.
Quote:
-The interior was torched all night. Again, Jones just had no pocket to step up into, and because of that, he needed to evade laterally. When that happens, all hell breaks loose in pass protection. The lack of stability up front compounds the issue. Mark Glowinksi allowed 4 pressures. Ben Bredeson allowed 1 pressure and had a holding penalty cancelled by an intentional-grounding throw by Jones. He was also on the losing end of many battles in the running game. And Jon Feliciano allowed a TFL, a pressure, and was flagged for illegally blocking downfield on a 14-yard gain by Barkley. He also had a sack cancelled by a DAL penalty in the defensive backfield. Awful performance by this trio, just awful. Bredeson also was at fault for the blocked field goal in the first quarter.
of the 20ish million in AAV they spent in FA almost half of it was on the OL with Feliciano and Glowinski with major selling points of both being that they fit the system and had familiarity with Bobby Johnson. Bredeson is a young backup forced into action and even though he was a day 2 pick Ezeudu is just a rookie. Those 2 veterans were supposed to stabilize the interior and so far they've done anything but.
it's 3 games but bobby johnson doesnt appear to be bill callahan.
I'm not sure what you were expecting from these two but their cap numbers are $3.3m and $2.9m. Hardly "stabilizing" players.
cap numbers can be manipulated however you want. Glowinski's AAV is 6.1m and Feliciano's is 3.25m. Shaq Mason's cap hit this year is 2.3m, 1m lower than feliciano's on a 9m AAV deal after going to tampa from NE for a 5th round pick. he's a little younger and been a better player than both of them.
the combined amounts they gave glowinski/feliciano are more than every IOL from last year's FA market except Scherff and Tomlinson. So they had their choice of most of the IOL market with only a few exceptions.
Or we don't compare other teams signings instead we look at the specific players the Giants signed. As it says below in the link:
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/136862976
=======================
"We knew we weren't going to be players for the scherff's and we know they were cap strapped . . . we add two players I would say are competent . . . I like Glowinski here but I want to temper the expecataions. The aren't true difference makers."
========================
This a a ceiling of "Mediocrity" - that's what the Giants signed. But when mediocrity goes against a very good defense, what are you expecting?
Glowinski is the better of the 2. Well I read he struggles with pass blocking. Well Felicano got cut. He got cut. He might be okay at his best but what can you expect from him overall? Maybe mediocrity but probably worse. And the other guard spot is weak. And the RT now is weak.
The other teams have pro players too. And when a superior talented defensive unit goes against a weaker OL unit - the OL is gonna lose. Granted they could be better but if their weakness is pass blocking and two players that surrounding them are a bit overmatched this early too and they are going against superior Defensive talent, --
What are you expecting? I can see if you are highly frustrated with a player that was supposed to be good and he sucks.
I totally agree with your comment. It is what it is for right now and this is what it is to be expected. The previous two opponents for the Giants were weaker defensive and did not expose as much as Dallas did. This is a work in progress and may take 2 to 3 years to build this online. We are just going to have to sit tight, unfortunately. They are going to be growing pains with Evan, as this happened to Andrew Thomas as a rookie. Investment in the interior line is a priority.
Give Neal a chance to get acclimated to the nfl and make for a very strong left side of the line. Could Neal be a Larry Allen type guard?
Hamilton at this point may be a better pass blocker than Neal at tackle.
Could always move Neal back to tackle depending on how things work out.
Thanks
That actually isn’t a bad idea….maybe it is, but it does appear his weaknesses can be better camouflaged s a guard.