I do think he played his best game of the season and showed some serious grit. However I found this lingering after the game.
Did anyone have any confidence that he was going to lead the team down the field on the last drive?
I didn't, not even a little. I was always confident in Eli no matter what kind of game it was, his protection etc.
Players can feel that too, our players, the other teams. I think that's really what it comes down to for me and DJ. I want to be able to watch a team on that kind of drive that I'm amped up to watch because I know they have a good shot. His receiver did fall down, that isn't his fault, but that doesn't change the fact that I was expecting a bad play to happen involving him.
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Some of you are really good at predicting events that are impossible to speak on!
Couldn't agree more...It's almost as if they are trying to predict stocks!
Lame.
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In comment 15836513 NoGainDayne said:
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Some of you are really good at predicting events that are impossible to speak on!
Couldn't agree more...It's almost as if they are trying to predict stocks!
So nice of you to take an interest in my work. You'd be happy to know we don't predict stocks but provide transparency on difficult things to understand like the options markets by condensing complex non-linear equations into scaled metrics for retail investors that have a difficult time interpreting that data. Real classy, a hallmark of Jints central die hards like yourself who take up the noble charge of commenting only to troll someone who proved to be just a little too right about the incompetence going on there.
I stand corrected...I guess I was looking in the wrong place for companies that provide free high quality stock predictions to retail investors to help them build wealth. I'll try narrowing my search...
Are there players and contracts from the prior regime still on the roster and the cap?
Then those still matter. Excuses, on the other hand, don't.
Not the point. You said posters glom on to what Sy says - you know the professional scout - and of course what SY says is a professional opinion. My counter to your point was, some on BBI glom on to what other posters say as if it were the truth(and some is good). If Sy is saying how do we get a clear idea of Jones development this season when he doesn't have time to throw and when he does get some time who can he throw too, then it is not an excuse. It is a fact. Believe me I think they need another direction. But I also can clearly see a marked improvement in his play this season. IMHO, Jones will be playing for another team next season. But I have been impressed with what Daboll, Kafka and the QB coach have done to improve Jones. Daboll says he is getting better every day, ever game. After Monday, I believe him.
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In comment 15836553 John formerly in CharlotteNC said:
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In comment 15836513 NoGainDayne said:
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Some of you are really good at predicting events that are impossible to speak on!
Couldn't agree more...It's almost as if they are trying to predict stocks!
So nice of you to take an interest in my work. You'd be happy to know we don't predict stocks but provide transparency on difficult things to understand like the options markets by condensing complex non-linear equations into scaled metrics for retail investors that have a difficult time interpreting that data. Real classy, a hallmark of Jints central die hards like yourself who take up the noble charge of commenting only to troll someone who proved to be just a little too right about the incompetence going on there.
I stand corrected...I guess I was looking in the wrong place for companies that provide free high quality stock predictions to retail investors to help them build wealth. I'll try narrowing my search...
Yeah I mean doesn't work that well as marketing copy but the underlying data especially in the options markets are often pointing certain stocks in different directions. Which is what the app does, we don't pick favorites just report on those equations and where they are pointing. It's sorely needed service that we are helping real people every day with, what exactly are you doing with your life? Other then taking out your bitterness on me because I was right about your friends.
Anyone watching the game knew Jones was not the issue.
All of this comparing Jones to the best NFL QBs is so odd. All of you know that Rodgers would have made that same throw I guess? Not choose another receiver?
Some of you are really good at predicting events that are impossible to speak on!
Part of this is Eli did it in college. He came to the NFL with a reputation for coming up big. DJ had zero of that, kind of the opposite. The mental gymnastics around this stuff is A+ though.
You don't inspire with arguments around "doing fine for what you have" it is almost always about getting more of what you have.
Jones in his pro and college career has little to no experience as the difference maker, especially when it most counts and that's pretty damning, or at least it should be for everyone.
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Are there players and contracts from the prior regime still on the roster and the cap?
Then those still matter. Excuses, on the other hand, don't.
Not the point. You said posters glom on to what Sy says - you know the professional scout - and of course what SY says is a professional opinion. My counter to your point was, some on BBI glom on to what other posters say as if it were the truth(and some is good). If Sy is saying how do we get a clear idea of Jones development this season when he doesn't have time to throw and when he does get some time who can he throw too, then it is not an excuse. It is a fact. Believe me I think they need another direction. But I also can clearly see a marked improvement in his play this season. IMHO, Jones will be playing for another team next season. But I have been impressed with what Daboll, Kafka and the QB coach have done to improve Jones. Daboll says he is getting better every day, ever game. After Monday, I believe him.
I'm talking about the specific words. And it's not just Sy's reports where this happens, either. For years we had posters continuing to use the same dumb fucking terms that DG used in his opening presser, as though "Hawgmawllies" was part of their vernacular all along.
There's not even an attempt to process the information that they read and then use it thoughtfully because they agree with it. It's abject laziness where they just parrot the exact words, verbatim.
I have no issue with anyone agreeing with Sy, or referencing his reports in an attempt to substantiate their own opinion. I think that's the right way to source & cite, and it advances the conversation. I do take issue with just grabbing one sentence in Sy's post-game recap and repeating it word-for-word with no independent thought attached to it.
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In comment 15836553 John formerly in CharlotteNC said:
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In comment 15836513 NoGainDayne said:
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Some of you are really good at predicting events that are impossible to speak on!
Couldn't agree more...It's almost as if they are trying to predict stocks!
So nice of you to take an interest in my work. You'd be happy to know we don't predict stocks but provide transparency on difficult things to understand like the options markets by condensing complex non-linear equations into scaled metrics for retail investors that have a difficult time interpreting that data. Real classy, a hallmark of Jints central die hards like yourself who take up the noble charge of commenting only to troll someone who proved to be just a little too right about the incompetence going on there.
I stand corrected...I guess I was looking in the wrong place for companies that provide free high quality stock predictions to retail investors to help them build wealth. I'll try narrowing my search...
Being narrow-minded, that should be right up your alley...
We need something like.
Down 24-7 in the second half of a game against Philly in 2006 Eli threw for 371 yards and three touchdowns, on 31-43 passing in his 3rd year. Buress and Toomer, I hear your objections but Jones needs to do something to inspire his teammates, to make them believe that there is magic in his arm.
Make the playoffs and support I re-signing him, fail and move in a different direction. Gotta be like that. He isn't going somewhere else and turning into Brady. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
I'm talking about the specific words. And it's not just Sy's reports where this happens, either. For years we had posters continuing to use the same dumb fucking terms that DG used in his opening presser, as though "Hawgmawllies" was part of their vernacular all along.
There's not even an attempt to process the information that they read and then use it thoughtfully because they agree with it. It's abject laziness where they just parrot the exact words, verbatim.
I have no issue with anyone agreeing with Sy, or referencing his reports in an attempt to substantiate their own opinion. I think that's the right way to source & cite, and it advances the conversation. I do take issue with just grabbing one sentence in Sy's post-game recap and repeating it word-for-word with no independent thought attached to it.
How the hell do you go from a buffoon like Gettleman and his childishly, simplistic, idioms and people quoting Sy? They are mutually exclusive.
Ok, if you do not like direct quotes, that is one thing, but you made it sound like you were disputing what Sy said.
I am therefore sorry if I misread your intention. I can see that mindless quotes could be a pet peeve. I will have to get my computah guys to fix this...
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he'd have thrown some passes to Kupp or Kelce on that last drive
Back to the binary excuses.
No one is denying that Jones has a shitty supporting cast, especially his receivers.
I still don't see anyone providing anything other than unabashed hope to suggest that Jones isn't also part of the shitty cast himself.
We should know the answer about Jones in about 3 months or so. Personally, I can hang on that long.
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In comment 15836567 Bill in UT said:
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he'd have thrown some passes to Kupp or Kelce on that last drive
Back to the binary excuses.
No one is denying that Jones has a shitty supporting cast, especially his receivers.
I still don't see anyone providing anything other than unabashed hope to suggest that Jones isn't also part of the shitty cast himself.
We should know the answer about Jones in about 3 months or so. Personally, I can hang on that long.
This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
Dodged a bullet, then...
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Actually, it’s literally the other way around. The narrative of Jones is he’s a turnover machine, and doesn’t have what it takes. The guy previous post is right. If he’s playing this well with a JV receiving core, and a “freshman” offensive line, and under a new system once again that he’s still getting comfortable with…. Why do people doubt him when ONE DAY, he might actually have established offensive line, a receiving core he can count on and their[sic] reliable, and a system he feels comfortable with? Has anyone even thought of that?
That's a lot of if's and might's and maybe's and someday's to base a new contract on. If DJ needs everything to be perfect, then none of it is about DJ and there's no reason to keep him.
But just keep hoping as hard as you can, Tinkerbell.
Uhh, did I say he needs all of that? I’m simply pointing out he has none of that, never really had any of that as well, but is playing at a high level like we saw last night. For gods sake, give him half of that… at least.
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This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
Dodged a bullet, then...
I think Pickett will be better than Jones.
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In comment 15836580 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15836567 Bill in UT said:
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he'd have thrown some passes to Kupp or Kelce on that last drive
Back to the binary excuses.
No one is denying that Jones has a shitty supporting cast, especially his receivers.
I still don't see anyone providing anything other than unabashed hope to suggest that Jones isn't also part of the shitty cast himself.
We should know the answer about Jones in about 3 months or so. Personally, I can hang on that long.
This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
There is absolutely nothing certain about that at all. You saw what the league thought of Pickett, wasn't that strong of a candidate and dropped to 20. What "saved" Jones is the weak QB class otherwise Schoen would have taken one.
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In comment 15836357 TrustTheProcess said:
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Actually, it’s literally the other way around. The narrative of Jones is he’s a turnover machine, and doesn’t have what it takes. The guy previous post is right. If he’s playing this well with a JV receiving core, and a “freshman” offensive line, and under a new system once again that he’s still getting comfortable with…. Why do people doubt him when ONE DAY, he might actually have established offensive line, a receiving core he can count on and their[sic] reliable, and a system he feels comfortable with? Has anyone even thought of that?
That's a lot of if's and might's and maybe's and someday's to base a new contract on. If DJ needs everything to be perfect, then none of it is about DJ and there's no reason to keep him.
But just keep hoping as hard as you can, Tinkerbell.
Uhh, did I say he needs all of that? I’m simply pointing out he has none of that, never really had any of that as well, but is playing at a high level like we saw last night. For gods sake, give him half of that… at least.
Ok, so here's the issue - what DJ did on Monday was not "playing at a high level" so much as it was just a considerably higher level than the low bar he has set for many fans.
DJ's play on Monday night should be the floor, not the ceiling.
No I wasn’t confident . It’s a team-caused skepticism . I am in solid with the new management team . This will take some time . Looks like Toney and Galladay were huge mistakes . That hurts . That sets you back when you miss like that .
We need something like.
Down 24-7 in the second half of a game against Philly in 2006 Eli threw for 371 yards and three touchdowns, on 31-43 passing in his 3rd year. Buress and Toomer, I hear your objections but Jones needs to do something to inspire his teammates, to make them believe that there is magic in his arm.
Make the playoffs and support I re-signing him, fail and move in a different direction. Gotta be like that. He isn't going somewhere else and turning into Brady. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
You know whats not going to happen? Eli’s comeback vs PHI in 2006 with David Sills and Richie James on the field. The do it anywayz nonsense is just sad.
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In comment 15836635 Bill in UT said:
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In comment 15836580 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15836567 Bill in UT said:
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he'd have thrown some passes to Kupp or Kelce on that last drive
Back to the binary excuses.
No one is denying that Jones has a shitty supporting cast, especially his receivers.
I still don't see anyone providing anything other than unabashed hope to suggest that Jones isn't also part of the shitty cast himself.
We should know the answer about Jones in about 3 months or so. Personally, I can hang on that long.
This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
There is absolutely nothing certain about that at all. You saw what the league thought of Pickett, wasn't that strong of a candidate and dropped to 20. What "saved" Jones is the weak QB class otherwise Schoen would have taken one.
There were reports Judge loved Pickett. Pickett is more valuable today than Jones. Pickett was just a first rounder. Jones couldn't fetch that in a deal.
Dodged a bullet, then...
I think Pickett will be better than Jones.
That is fine. Opinions are like, a$$h*#&s, everyone has one...he could be better. See what Tomlinson can do with him.
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In comment 15836642 Producer said:
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This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
Dodged a bullet, then...
I think Pickett will be better than Jones.
revolutionary statement here! In what dimension is this taking place? Behind the Giants OL with their receivers, or the objectively better team that the steelers possess?
However, even if Jones was getting adequate time with adequate targets, I would not have been confident in a game tying drive. I just do not have much confidence in him.
Also, I think a lot of us struggle with the idea that we just may not know as much about pro football as we think, which in reality is not a big deal.
We need something like.
Down 24-7 in the second half of a game against Philly in 2006 Eli threw for 371 yards and three touchdowns, on 31-43 passing in his 3rd year. Buress and Toomer, I hear your objections but Jones needs to do something to inspire his teammates, to make them believe that there is magic in his arm.
Make the playoffs and support I re-signing him, fail and move in a different direction. Gotta be like that. He isn't going somewhere else and turning into Brady. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
Ohk. Had Buress... Had Toomer... Had a Championship line... Had a bad ass TE to go along with a Bad ass RBs but yeah Gotta be like that.. lol
Face it the only thing that Dan has is a RB w all world talent and a coach with balls Everything else Sub PAR - and Eli had Coughlin too
The "not the reason we lost" shit, he can shove up his own ass. I want better. You should too.
I get that it's a rhetorical question, that you aren't really asking how we all felt, that you are saying that nobody could have had any confidence that Jones would lead the team down the field on the last drive.
But:
Clearly, from the posts above, some people on BBI had some confidence.
Personally, I can't say I was confident, but I had hope. I wasn't confident because the Giants haven't shown a two-minute offense at all, really. Even at the end of the first half, when they had the ball, more time, and all three time outs, they didn't run a two-minute drill. For whatever reason, that's not really happening yet.
Also, I had hope because we have seen the Giants make late drives weeks 1 and 2. I wasn't confident because Dallas is better than Tennessee and Carolina, the Giants team is very young, Neal was getting his ass kicked, Golladay is underperforming, Toney and Robinson are hurt, and the rest of the receiving corps aren't really playmakers. It's a team game. The QB and RB can only do so much.
In my opinion, the larger point was/is exaggerated. Jones has actually done the thing you are saying he can't do, he's done it this season, and the Giants were 2-0 because of it. But he did it against lesser competition. Jones may not be the Giants QB beyond this season but I don't think he's in the top 10 things to complain about from Monday. Maybe not top 20.
That's because they have better players, outside of Jones.
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In comment 15836642 Producer said:
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In comment 15836635 Bill in UT said:
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In comment 15836580 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15836567 Bill in UT said:
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he'd have thrown some passes to Kupp or Kelce on that last drive
Back to the binary excuses.
No one is denying that Jones has a shitty supporting cast, especially his receivers.
I still don't see anyone providing anything other than unabashed hope to suggest that Jones isn't also part of the shitty cast himself.
We should know the answer about Jones in about 3 months or so. Personally, I can hang on that long.
This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
There is absolutely nothing certain about that at all. You saw what the league thought of Pickett, wasn't that strong of a candidate and dropped to 20. What "saved" Jones is the weak QB class otherwise Schoen would have taken one.
There were reports Judge loved Pickett. Pickett is more valuable today than Jones. Pickett was just a first rounder. Jones couldn't fetch that in a deal.
Judge wasn't the GM. And Pickett only has more value than Jones because he's on year 1 of his rookie deal - we haven't seen him play yet. Like I said, nothing certain just speculation which is fine but stating it as fact is ridiculous.
What people have to realize is that Football is a TEAM sport. SO the OP is over-simplyfying things.
I didn't think THE TEAM was goign to score becuase
1-- the OL was gettign destroyed.
2-- and as SY put it, Jones was passing to a JV squad.
3-- Dallas has a very, very good defense.
So yeah I didn't expect Jones AND THE TEAM to score.
So while the OP was expecting a bad play to happen to the QB, I was expecting THE TEAM to make a bad play etc because that's what they showed for the whole game. And for the whole season listening to SY, we can see it's THE TEAM that's not very good.
IMO it is so much, much more than what the OP is trying to make it to be. It's not simple. There are more than 1 player that can affect a close game not just the QB.
I'll say again - ITS NOT SIMPLE.
This is I think the crux of it, a lot of ink is spilled on the idea that "anyone else would play the same as DJ" as a defense. I want to see offense from an offensive player especially, I want to see people say "Not many players could make that play, especially in that spot"
And this is true of any QB, it's just a vibe they have and it has nothing to do with the rest of their team. Are they projecting confidence? Do they have a history of achievement? That's the kind of thing that makes defenses play tight, that's the kind of thing that relaxes your players and lowers their error rates. You throw Brady back there, Rodgers, Jackson, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Mahomes, Wilson, Stafford I'm feeling great about tying that game up with that exact same team.
It's not just the throws and the decisions, although the on field awareness doesn't help at all with the leadership perception. There is nothing about Jones that says this guy expects to win, this guy expects to make the big play. And you 100% need that if you are going to elevate your team and have them do improbable things like deliver wins with inferior talent.
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In comment 15836642 Producer said:
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This sounds exactly like what was said at the end of last September. What saved Daniel Jones last year is Joe Judge's self destruction campaign. If JJ came back Jones would most certainly be gone and Kenny Pickett would likely be the Giants future QB.
Dodged a bullet, then...
I think Pickett will be better than Jones.
Really? Shocked that you don't like Jones. Maybe you can post another 1,000 times your view on Jones just to make it clear?
The DJFC is real.
And delusional.
This is I think the crux of it, a lot of ink is spilled on the idea that "anyone else would play the same as DJ" as a defense. I want to see offense from an offensive player especially, I want to see people say "Not many players could make that play, especially in that spot"
And this is true of any QB, it's just a vibe they have and it has nothing to do with the rest of their team. Are they projecting confidence? Do they have a history of achievement? That's the kind of thing that makes defenses play tight, that's the kind of thing that relaxes your players and lowers their error rates. You throw Brady back there, Rodgers, Jackson, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Mahomes, Wilson, Stafford I'm feeling great about tying that game up with that exact same team.
It's not just the throws and the decisions, although the on field awareness doesn't help at all with the leadership perception. There is nothing about Jones that says this guy expects to win, this guy expects to make the big play. And you 100% need that if you are going to elevate your team and have them do improbable things like deliver wins with inferior talent.
I put in bold two points that I would like to talk about:
Some fans probably do say "anyone else would play the same as DJ". I don't think that way. If you replace Jones with the top tier quarterbacks, there is no doubt a significant improvement at the quarterback position. However, I think the way the OL is playing now, plus the lack of targets would be too much for even those quarterbacks. Otherwise the team could just save tons of money at the other positions by acquiring undrafted fa's since the top tier qb needs very little to do their job. I am not saying that you're saying this, but sometimes when fans talk about how little top tier quarterbacks need to be successful it seems that way.
Personally, I think it would be a toss up if the Giants had any of those quarterbacks behind center to tie up the game Monday night. I think the OL was that bad, and the targets were that bad. However, that is a significant improvement over the feeling I had for Jones.
So your confidence in Eli is likely because you have selective memory.
If you want to evaluate Jones then fine but if you do that then you need to understand the game from a coaches perspective and not from the recliner of a fan.
The shitty thing about this season is once again we are having too many issues that impact the offense which always gets put on the QB
New OC and scheme that ALL of the players have to learn
Bad OL play again and we had high hopes
Horrible WRs
Less than average TE
The only two positives on offense are barkley until he gets hurt again and Jones has significantly reduced the turnovers
You are asking this guy not to make lemonade out of lemons, but to make lemonade out of rotten tomatoes
I can't recall a upper tier QB ever not having a good amount of talent around them whether it is in the OL or WR/TE group.
Did I somehow communicate that I think Jones is a hall of fame talent that is unable to show it because of the lack of surrounding talent?
I can't recall a upper tier QB ever not having a good amount of talent around them whether it is in the OL or WR/TE group.
Hi LOS. I am not sure if anyone is saying that, but if they are, then I disagree; mostly for the reasons you listed in your post.
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properly take into account the poor OL and lack of targets Daniel Jones had to endure during his stay in New York...
Did I somehow communicate that I think Jones is a hall of fame talent that is unable to show it because of the lack of surrounding talent?
no, but this thread has many posters besides you...
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In comment 15837417 Jimmy Googs said:
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properly take into account the poor OL and lack of targets Daniel Jones had to endure during his stay in New York...
Did I somehow communicate that I think Jones is a hall of fame talent that is unable to show it because of the lack of surrounding talent?
no, but this thread has many posters besides you...
That is why I asked if you were referencing me.
Dallas ties the game and Jones responds with a three and out! Oh wait it included two dropped passes and an illegal procedure. Damn it He has to overcome that!!!!!
Jones was solid on MNF. The problem is that he's working with the worst WR room in the league IMO. KT89 is a space cadet, Robinson is injured, Shep's now injured, KG is a waste...his best WR option is Richie Fucking James.