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Preemptive MRIs?

DC Gmen Fan : 9/28/2022 11:53 am
I am surprised teams don’t do preemptive imaging such as before the season or maybe mid season to screen high risk players such as WRs, DBs, RBs for knee, Achilles, or other joint damage. I would think in some cases finding small tears and or structural damage early could lead to better treatments/therapy to prevent a more catastrophic injury. I’m guessing catastrophic tears are a result of minute degeneration and finding those could save careers. Thoughts?
Two thoughts  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/28/2022 11:57 am : link
immediately come to mind:

(1) a lot of players with suspected issues already get MRIs. (i.e., players who are banged up on Sunday often get MRIs that we don't even know about on Monday).

(2) a league that keeps adding games to the schedule, including Thursday night, still is more interested in $$$ than player health.
Probably every guy on the team has small tears  
Vanzetti : 9/28/2022 11:59 am : link
It's like my doctor told me about my grandfather and PET scans. If you scan a 90 year old, you are going to find things which then have to be investigated and were liely better just being left alone.

Same with football players. Every guy would wind up on IR if you did pre-emptive scans.
It's big deal and very time consuming getting an MRI  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/28/2022 12:12 pm : link
I don't think it practical to just throw players into that routine unless it's really necessary
Probably not necessary for most of the players  
JohnF : 9/28/2022 12:24 pm : link
But for those players with a history of knee injuries, Achilles injuries or any other lower leg injuries, I think it's reasonable.
Probably not necessary for most of the players  
JohnF : 9/28/2022 12:48 pm : link
But for those players with a history of knee injuries, Achilles injuries or any other lower leg injuries, I think it's reasonable.
I agree  
Sec_149 : 9/28/2022 12:48 pm : link
(1) a lot of players with suspected issues already get MRIs. (i.e., players who are banged up on Sunday often get MRIs that we don't even know about on Monday).

This statement from Eric is true. A friend of mine was at the Hospital for Special Surgery visiting an orthopedic for his knee a few years ago. He told me that Janoris Jenkins walked in to get an mri done. There was no mention of this in the injury report.
I think this happens a lot.
I have no idea if they do or don't.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/28/2022 2:12 pm : link
With that said, what can they do to prevent it? Let's say a guy has an acl warning sign. How do they stop a ligament from tearing? If it is an OL, they can wear a brace but what about a WR or DB?
RE: I have no idea if they do or don't.  
Dave : 9/28/2022 2:24 pm : link
In comment 15836657 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
With that said, what can they do to prevent it? Let's say a guy has an acl warning sign. How do they stop a ligament from tearing? If it is an OL, they can wear a brace but what about a WR or DB?


I don't know how practical it'd be, but I guess the logic would be to treat the small damage before it
becomes major damage. ie rest for 4 weeks v season ending surgery, or small surgery v big surgery
sounds like a very fine line to me  
UConn4523 : 9/28/2022 2:28 pm : link
players don't really like doing tests from what i've read, so "ordering" a player to take a test that isn't showing signs of an issue, or voicing a complaint likely has a some legal issues. I don't think the NFLPA will be eager to agree to "random MRI's" and I don't blame them.
RE: RE: I have no idea if they do or don't.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/28/2022 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15836679 Dave said:
Quote:
In comment 15836657 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


With that said, what can they do to prevent it? Let's say a guy has an acl warning sign. How do they stop a ligament from tearing? If it is an OL, they can wear a brace but what about a WR or DB?



I don't know how practical it'd be, but I guess the logic would be to treat the small damage before it
becomes major damage. ie rest for 4 weeks v season ending surgery, or small surgery v big surgery


But ligaments don't heal themselves. The only one ai know that does is the MCL. An ACL or achilles isn't gonna get better without surgery. At least with limited knowledge.
I'm pretty sure ligaments can sometimes heal themselves  
Dave : 9/28/2022 3:08 pm : link
cartilage cant.

stretched ligaments can heal, torn ligaments can't
RE: I'm pretty sure ligaments can sometimes heal themselves  
robbieballs2003 : 9/28/2022 4:22 pm : link
In comment 15836722 Dave said:
Quote:
cartilage cant.

stretched ligaments can heal, torn ligaments can't


But sprains are an injury or stretching is an injury. I'm assuming the purpose of this thread was to see if you see something from an MRI that can predetermine a player is more susceptible to an injury before an injury.

Listen, it is an interesting take and I am not disagreeing with it. I am just not sure how practical it is yet. How can you tell a player not to play because you think they could get injured? You would need to run a study with multiple types of athletes over a long period of time to see if they can truly diagnose injuries before they happen but, more importantly, what can they do to prevent it. That second part is really the problem.
there’s an issue called consent. can’t just send player for tests he  
plato : 9/28/2022 6:27 pm : link
does not want. I doubt players would consent to “ preemptive” testing that could endanger their revenue stream nor should they. In spite of working in a strange system, they have right to refuse.
Perhaps one should read up on what an MRI is  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/28/2022 6:55 pm : link
before suggesting handing them out like halloween candy.
RE: Perhaps one should read up on what an MRI is  
UConn4523 : 9/28/2022 7:02 pm : link
In comment 15836979 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
before suggesting handing them out like halloween candy.


This too. You should only get one if completely necessary.
MRI Findings  
gregori : 9/29/2022 9:09 am : link
As a healthcare practitioner who reads lots of radiologists MRI reports regarding the spine, shoulders, knees, etc, I can tell you that there are all kinds of findings out of proportion with individual's symptoms or complaints.
Radiologists, for legal reasons, report lots of findings.
If everyone on a 53 man roster had MRIs of the spine, knees, ankles, feet, elbows, hands and shoulders. not to mention muscles in the legs and core, half of the roster would be placed on injured lists.
RE: MRI Findings  
UConn4523 : 9/29/2022 9:15 am : link
In comment 15837465 gregori said:
Quote:
As a healthcare practitioner who reads lots of radiologists MRI reports regarding the spine, shoulders, knees, etc, I can tell you that there are all kinds of findings out of proportion with individual's symptoms or complaints.
Radiologists, for legal reasons, report lots of findings.
If everyone on a 53 man roster had MRIs of the spine, knees, ankles, feet, elbows, hands and shoulders. not to mention muscles in the legs and core, half of the roster would be placed on injured lists.


Yup, another good point. When I messed my back up 10ish years ago a got several opinions on it. 3 of the 4 surgeons I met with recommended PT + time and to not get surgery yet. They all said that if they were to pull random adult males off the street and scanned them they'd find bulging discs in a fairly high percentage of them. Add in football trauma and that goes percentage goes up drastically.
Good points by all  
DC Gmen Fan : 9/29/2022 10:21 am : link
thanks for the dicsussion
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