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Trading Saquon while we can

MeanBunny : 9/28/2022 2:50 pm
Gio and Boomer brought up a depressing BUT interesting point. -Saquon is healthy, doing well and at high value
-Giants are so far from being a contender that they still need to find more talent in the draft
-A few teams, including Bills(with a good relationship with Schoen)lack a running game and need to depressure Allen and are about as close to winning a SB as ever
-Jones is probably gone and with the WRs we have now, it's basically a Pop Warner team with Saquon wasting his time anyways
Take the draft pick trade and run? Stick with the fan fave for another season? Front office would get roasted for it but Saquon has no value if he gets hurt again. Its all poker now folks
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Doubt  
kash94 : 9/28/2022 2:53 pm : link
ownership agrees unless the Giants are pretty firmly out of playoff contention. I don't think that'll happen by November 1st.
Who is the trading partner and what are they willing to give?  
Jack Stroud : 9/28/2022 2:54 pm : link
Why is Jones gone? He has perhaps the worst group of WR's ever assembled on an NFL team and at best an average oline, tell me again why he is gone?
We do not know what Daboll  
section125 : 9/28/2022 2:56 pm : link
and Schoen see for the team. If we get to November and are treading water, Schoen may try to peddle Barkley. I feel that Daboll loves Barkley. I agree the Bills are a perfect fit for Barkley and vise versa...
Barkley is our offense right now  
UConn4523 : 9/28/2022 2:56 pm : link
and he's keeping us in games. He sells tickets. Unless we are talking high picks the value just isn't there. You can't just firesale every year, you risk losing your team and we all know how that goes.
Duh  
Spider43 : 9/28/2022 2:58 pm : link
If Schoen is a forward-thinking GM worth his salt. Yesterday. But Mara probably still has his hooks deep in, so unlikely.
Franchise him  
AG5686 : 9/28/2022 3:00 pm : link
.
Barkley  
NJBlueTuna : 9/28/2022 3:01 pm : link
Is not going anywhere. How does that establish a culture of winning/trying to win? He is the undisputed face of the franchise and beloved by Mara and makes money for the franchise.

Might as well trade Daboll before we go under sub-500…..
RE: Who is the trading partner and what are they willing to give?  
Mike from Ohio : 9/28/2022 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15836708 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
Why is Jones gone? He has perhaps the worst group of WR's ever assembled on an NFL team and at best an average oline, tell me again why he is gone?


Kenny Golladay has a horrible offensive line, no secondary receivers and a QB the team declined a fifth year option on. Tell me again why he needs to go?

Oh yeah...because you can evaluate a player without having a perfect structure around him.
RE: Duh  
section125 : 9/28/2022 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15836712 Spider43 said:
Quote:
If Schoen is a forward-thinking GM worth his salt. Yesterday. But Mara probably still has his hooks deep in, so unlikely.


Stop with the Mara BS. If Schoen feels he can get good value for Barkley, he will do it. Barkley is a FA and may not even want to re-sign here.
I think that after what Mara has done, especially with dumpster fire Gettleman, he will let Schoen do what needs to be done.
I understand we aren't a powerhouse, but we are improving  
PatersonPlank : 9/28/2022 3:05 pm : link
And will be 3-1 after this week. There are a lot of mediocre teams we can beat. Winning is important, and a key element to growing a team. This philosophy that if you can't compete right now for a Super Bowl then you tear things up, just doesn't make sense to me. Keep Barkley, and keep our other good players, and build around them. Don't torch everything every season, and continually start at ground zero.
I think we should keep the few good players we have.  
bceagle05 : 9/28/2022 3:07 pm : link
I mentioned in the other Barkley thread that the days of the Herschel Walker trade are over - getting one pick in return for him doesn't excite me too much.
Is the paltry return  
JB_in_DC : 9/28/2022 3:08 pm : link
from a midseason RB trade worth taking away one of the few watchable elements of this team? There's always potential for a comp pick if you're moving on from Barkley. Maybe a pick as good as you'd get in trade.
Time running out  
uther99 : 9/28/2022 3:09 pm : link
5 weeks to the deadline. I think trade him if you can get a 3rd or better. I doubt they tag him and some team will pay more than Giants on a new deal
There is always the dumbfounding  
OBJ_AllDay : 9/28/2022 3:09 pm : link
fascination of most giants fans with trading away the most talented player they have off the roster. The giants are 2-1 not 0-3 and they are 2-1 in large part due to saquon. There is no urgency to trade him at this juncture. You let him kill it for half a season and then see where you stand. Plus, the roster is devoid of talent for the most part. You try to hold on to the building blocks you do have. This is one of the youngest rosters in the league and are expected to have a new qb soon on a rookie deal. You absolutely do not NEED to trade saquon. If someone blows you away with a deal thats a different story.

Until then build around him, Thomas, Love, Mckinney and Neal.
RE: Is the paltry return  
section125 : 9/28/2022 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15836723 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
from a midseason RB trade worth taking away one of the few watchable elements of this team? There's always potential for a comp pick if you're moving on from Barkley. Maybe a pick as good as you'd get in trade.


The comp pick is in the second year(2024) and at max a late 3rd rounder...if Buffalo offers a 2nd or a 3rd and 4th, it may be worth it.
Hell yes, I would like to keep Barkley but if they determine they will not re-sign him, then you need to trade him.
I was all about this in the offseason,  
j_rud : 9/28/2022 3:15 pm : link
buoyed by a decade of bad football, but am coming around on the franchise idea. If he's the focal point of the offense, you don't have your QB yet, and you're about to embark on a complete rebuild of your receiver group the tag price for RBs isn't a steep price to keep a game changing talent. Can you imagine this O without him right now?
RE: RE: Is the paltry return  
uther99 : 9/28/2022 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15836730 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15836723 JB_in_DC said:


Quote:


from a midseason RB trade worth taking away one of the few watchable elements of this team? There's always potential for a comp pick if you're moving on from Barkley. Maybe a pick as good as you'd get in trade.



The comp pick is in the second year(2024) and at max a late 3rd rounder...if Buffalo offers a 2nd or a 3rd and 4th, it may be worth it.
Hell yes, I would like to keep Barkley but if they determine they will not re-sign him, then you need to trade him.


Comp picks also get negated by FA signings, which Giants will most likely need
I'd  
AcidTest : 9/28/2022 3:17 pm : link
be surprised if they trade him. As others have said, he's the "face of the franchise," is the only real threat on offense (unless you want to count Jones running for his life every other pass play), and his return is depressed because he's a FA after this season, a RB, and had a major knee injury. He has more value to us than any other team in all likelihood. What happens after this season though is TBD.
If some team is willing to pony up a first and few mid rounders  
Vanzetti : 9/28/2022 3:20 pm : link
then sure. Why not?

But trading him for a 3rd or 4th? That's just dumb. You franchise him for a year. You will get the same return then anyway
If we get Buffalo's 1 absolutely  
averagejoe : 9/28/2022 3:22 pm : link
but it will never happen. Barkley is the only threat this pathetic offense has. Jones to Sills does not scare a Pop Warner team . Barkley will help us grind out some wins against bad teams. He is staying.
RE: Is the paltry return  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/28/2022 3:30 pm : link
In comment 15836723 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
from a midseason RB trade worth taking away one of the few watchable elements of this team? There's always potential for a comp pick if you're moving on from Barkley. Maybe a pick as good as you'd get in trade.


Exactly. AGAIN, this is a fantasy. NFL teams have learned that RBs are not worth premium picks. No one is going to give the Giants a package that outweighs what we get from him playing out the year. Barkley is worth more to the Giants than what he would get in trade, at most a 5th round pick or lower. Why would someone give us a first round pick for a guy with 13 games left? Absolute insanity.
If you're going to clean house  
JonC : 9/28/2022 3:35 pm : link
trading SB makes some sense. But, I think he could survive and still be here in 2023. You still need to field a competitive team that sell tickets and merch etc, and SB's contract figures to be on the short side.

I think Jones and some of the WRs are gone, but SB could still stick.
RE: RE: Is the paltry return  
section125 : 9/28/2022 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15836760 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
In comment 15836723 JB_in_DC said:


Quote:


from a midseason RB trade worth taking away one of the few watchable elements of this team? There's always potential for a comp pick if you're moving on from Barkley. Maybe a pick as good as you'd get in trade.



Exactly. AGAIN, this is a fantasy. NFL teams have learned that RBs are not worth premium picks. No one is going to give the Giants a package that outweighs what we get from him playing out the year. Barkley is worth more to the Giants than what he would get in trade, at most a 5th round pick or lower. Why would someone give us a first round pick for a guy with 13 games left? Absolute insanity.


Because he really helps them get to the Super Bowl? Look what the Rams did to get to the Super Bowl last year... You trade for him, you re-sign him and you keep your offense together.
Come down to, what is a Super Bowl worth?
The tag is 12.6 million  
uther99 : 9/28/2022 3:38 pm : link
I don't see Giants doing that
RE: RE: Who is the trading partner and what are they willing to give?  
Mad Mike : 9/28/2022 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15836717 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Kenny Golladay has a horrible offensive line, no secondary receivers and a QB the team declined a fifth year option on. Tell me again why he needs to go?

Oh yeah...because you can evaluate a player without having a perfect structure around him.

You've really outdone yourself here. It's almost impressive.
RE: RE: RE: Is the paltry return  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/28/2022 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15836768 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15836760 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


In comment 15836723 JB_in_DC said:


Quote:


from a midseason RB trade worth taking away one of the few watchable elements of this team? There's always potential for a comp pick if you're moving on from Barkley. Maybe a pick as good as you'd get in trade.



Exactly. AGAIN, this is a fantasy. NFL teams have learned that RBs are not worth premium picks. No one is going to give the Giants a package that outweighs what we get from him playing out the year. Barkley is worth more to the Giants than what he would get in trade, at most a 5th round pick or lower. Why would someone give us a first round pick for a guy with 13 games left? Absolute insanity.



Because he really helps them get to the Super Bowl? Look what the Rams did to get to the Super Bowl last year... You trade for him, you re-sign him and you keep your offense together.
Come down to, what is a Super Bowl worth?


More importantly, what is an RB worth coming off an injury and with only 13 games left in a contract? The Rams didn't trade for an RB though, and positions matter. The RB position is devalued because you can get relatively same production from non-premium picks.

No one is giving us a top pick for Barkley. We might as well keep him.
Giants won't trade him if still in contention for playoffs  
US1 Giants : 9/28/2022 3:45 pm : link
I'd be all for trading him if eliminated from playoff race.
A huge part of rebuilding is building a winning culture...  
Milton : 9/28/2022 3:50 pm : link
You don't achieve that by trading away players instrumental to your success. Not only does it contribute to losing (and losing breeds more losing, just as winning breeds more winning), it sends the wrong message to the locker room.
Make it stop.  
Section331 : 9/28/2022 3:55 pm : link
We're 2-1, what kind of message does it send to the team to trade its best offensive player? Reevaluate at the trade deadline.
Mara will not veto a Barkley trade if  
BlackLight : 9/28/2022 3:57 pm : link
Schoen decides to make a move.
Wait, the Bills need a RB?  
Snablats : 9/28/2022 3:57 pm : link
I keep being told here that the Buffalo RB by committee of lower round draft picks is the model to build by!

The fact is their RB situation is not good but they can get away with that because they have a star QB, a star WR, and very good secondary receivers/TEs

Buffalo has playmakers at other positions, the Giants dont. The Giants need to keep playmakers

If you trade Barkley, then trade Leo Williams, Adoree Jackson, and everyone else. And good luck signing guys like McKinney and Thomas and Love when the time comes because they wont want to start over from scratch next year and go 3-14 in 2023 and 2024
RE: Giants won't trade him if still in contention for playoffs  
BlackLight : 9/28/2022 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15836778 US1 Giants said:
Quote:
I'd be all for trading him if eliminated from playoff race.


Mathematically at least, just about every team will still be in playoff contention a month from now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is the paltry return  
section125 : 9/28/2022 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15836775 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:


More importantly, what is an RB worth coming off an injury and with only 13 games left in a contract? The Rams didn't trade for an RB though, and positions matter. The RB position is devalued because you can get relatively same production from non-premium picks.

No one is giving us a top pick for Barkley. We might as well keep him.


Coming off injury is irrelevant because he is playing at a high level. Many, many players get injured and return to play.
Barkley is not just some RB. He is a finish piece for a team like the Bills. We are talking about a top 5, closer to top 3, RB in the NFL.

We cannot assess what Buffalo or KC or Baltimore feels like they need to make a serious SB run. You may be correct and he doesn't help any of these teams. And maybe he would not return a 2nd or 3rd pick. But he would still need to resign with the Giants or else even passing on a 5th was a waste of an asset. Look at what not taking a 3rd for Bradberry ended up costing the Giants(yes Bradberry had a contract).
If RBs are so replaceable, as some suggest, then you get what you can for Barkley and draft a RB next year at a fraction of what it will cost to re-sign Barkley.

I would love to keep him, but what will it cost to re-sign him.
RE: RE: Who is the trading partner and what are they willing to give?  
UConn4523 : 9/28/2022 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15836717 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15836708 Jack Stroud said:


Quote:


Why is Jones gone? He has perhaps the worst group of WR's ever assembled on an NFL team and at best an average oline, tell me again why he is gone?



Kenny Golladay has a horrible offensive line, no secondary receivers and a QB the team declined a fifth year option on. Tell me again why he needs to go?

Oh yeah...because you can evaluate a player without having a perfect structure around him.


Did Kenny Golladay catch or botch those 2 passes that came at critical moments in a very winnable game? Is he beating out the other WR's in practice? Is he acting like a leader? 49% catch rate in 2021, 40% so far through 3 games. Not really sure what else there is to say.
What’s a fair return for Barkley right now  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/28/2022 4:14 pm : link
A first?
A second?
A third?
A third and a 5th?
A second and a 4th?

If someone wants to offer a first rounder, I’d consider it  
Sean : 9/28/2022 4:14 pm : link
No way I’m moving him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Not trading him for pennies on the dollar. He’s too good. I get he was a polarizing pick, but he can win a game by himself (Tennessee).

The Giants can tag him for two more years. I’m not just giving him away.
RE: Wait, the Bills need a RB?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/28/2022 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15836792 Snablats said:
Quote:
I keep being told here that the Buffalo RB by committee of lower round draft picks is the model to build by!

The fact is their RB situation is not good but they can get away with that because they have a star QB, a star WR, and very good secondary receivers/TEs



The RB by committee is the smarter design. And if Buffalo can add a Barkley to seal the deal for the stretch run in 2022 it is all the better.

Maybe we should trade our RB and see if we can use the pick to find a star WR, or a very good secondary receiver/TEs.

And nobody is telling you anything. You didn't listen the first time around on here...
RE: The tag is 12.6 million  
Jimmycal : 9/28/2022 4:28 pm : link
In comment 15836771 uther99 said:
Quote:
I don't see Giants doing that

His Cap hit is $7.2mil this year. Amounts to a $5mil raise without long term lock. This is almost 100% what they will do.
We are trying to change the culture here...  
Drewcon40 : 9/28/2022 4:32 pm : link
...Saquon is more than likely contributing to that positively both on and off the field. Personally, I believe there is value in that but can see the asset management aspect.

Carl Banks was on earlier and suggested that Barkley may be in the Giants long term plans and that running backs do not make as much money as other skill positions.
RE: If someone wants to offer a first rounder, I’d consider it  
Jimmy Googs : 9/28/2022 4:33 pm : link
In comment 15836824 Sean said:
Quote:
No way I’m moving him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Not trading him for pennies on the dollar. He’s too good. I get he was a polarizing pick, but he can win a game by himself (Tennessee).

The Giants can tag him for two more years. I’m not just giving him away.


Getting a 1st round pick for Barkley makes Schoen GM of the Year.

Passing on a 2nd round pick would be a fairly big error by a rookie GM...
This is a tough one  
Daniel in MI : 9/28/2022 4:56 pm : link
Be a use on the one hand it makes sense, if you’re not going to resign him for what he’ll cost get something now while the value is up. It’s true we’re not contenders now.

On the other, without him you may have a year like last year and I do not think ownership or fans can stomach that. Plus from a business standpoint he’s the face of the franchise and basically the only jersey you see in stores (a few Jones and Thibs, but not a lot of Sills jerseys selling).

More importantly, how does he fit into what Shoen wants to build and culture? He’s the best skill player we have or have had since OBJ, does getting rid of him send a bad message?
RE: RE: If someone wants to offer a first rounder, I’d consider it  
section125 : 9/28/2022 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15836854 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15836824 Sean said:


Quote:


No way I’m moving him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Not trading him for pennies on the dollar. He’s too good. I get he was a polarizing pick, but he can win a game by himself (Tennessee).

The Giants can tag him for two more years. I’m not just giving him away.



Getting a 1st round pick for Barkley makes Schoen GM of the Year.

Passing on a 2nd round pick would be a fairly big error by a rookie GM...


Agree and a 3rd for someone you are not considering re-signing is good too.

Looked at Kamara, Cook and Elliot contracts - between $14 and $18 mill per is what I see. That is probably what Barkley is looking at.. 3-5 years at AAV $15 mill.

I cannot see Schoen going for that.
ideally I wouldn't want to trade him  
mphbullet36 : 9/28/2022 5:11 pm : link
but if the draft comp is good enough you have to consider it. We aren't going anywhere this year and we are in no position to pay him top RB money with his injury history and the longevity at that position.
Can someone educate me..  
Sean : 9/28/2022 5:12 pm : link
As to why it’s so bad applying the tag to him? Everyone is so excited to move him for a third which could be another Matt Peart.

It’s funny how much less appealing draft picks are after the player is selected. I’m not trading Saquon for Matt Peart. I’ll apply the tag.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Is the paltry return  
aGiantGuy : 9/28/2022 5:14 pm : link
In comment 15836798 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15836775 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:




More importantly, what is an RB worth coming off an injury and with only 13 games left in a contract? The Rams didn't trade for an RB though, and positions matter. The RB position is devalued because you can get relatively same production from non-premium picks.

No one is giving us a top pick for Barkley. We might as well keep him.



Coming off injury is irrelevant because he is playing at a high level. Many, many players get injured and return to play.
Barkley is not just some RB. He is a finish piece for a team like the Bills. We are talking about a top 5, closer to top 3, RB in the NFL.

We cannot assess what Buffalo or KC or Baltimore feels like they need to make a serious SB run. You may be correct and he doesn't help any of these teams. And maybe he would not return a 2nd or 3rd pick. But he would still need to resign with the Giants or else even passing on a 5th was a waste of an asset. Look at what not taking a 3rd for Bradberry ended up costing the Giants(yes Bradberry had a contract).
If RBs are so replaceable, as some suggest, then you get what you can for Barkley and draft a RB next year at a fraction of what it will cost to re-sign Barkley.

I would love to keep him, but what will it cost to re-sign him.


Dude, we get a 3rd if someone signs him in free agency.

Wake up.
Youre almost better off letting him leave in FA  
Rudy5757 : 9/28/2022 5:15 pm : link
Save face, he costs too much. Possible comp pick. If you cant get a 1st or a 2nd which is unlikely I would keep him and try for the comp pick. We have sub par WRs and if we then have a sub par RB its going to get much worse. I dont think there is much benefit to trading him for a late round pick since its his last year.
I see the logic but I’m not sold.  
Pepe LePugh : 9/28/2022 5:19 pm : link
Trading Barkley is like trading away 3 wins. The draft pick (plus moving higher in the draft with your own picks) is not worth sabotaging development of a winning mindset. Stop thinking of him as a RB and realize he’s probably one of the top twenty or so playmakers in the league, who can be locked up at a relative bargain price.
RE: Can someone educate me..  
Jimmy Googs : 9/28/2022 5:27 pm : link
In comment 15836890 Sean said:
Quote:
As to why it’s so bad applying the tag to him? Everyone is so excited to move him for a third which could be another Matt Peart.

It’s funny how much less appealing draft picks are after the player is selected. I’m not trading Saquon for Matt Peart. I’ll apply the tag.


He makes over $7M now. Tag him and he'll cost over $12M.

Trade him for a 2nd and we can draft another potential core player and use the $12M on several moderately priced free agents to shore up WR and TE....
Barkley is a unique player who makes the whole offense better  
PatersonPlank : 9/28/2022 5:28 pm : link
HE can play at RB or WR. He is more important to the Giants than just a RB. Getting rid of him for a "promise" of another player who will be good at one position isn't a good move. You need guys like Barkley to build a team around. You can't have everyone trying to show if they are good or not, and playing on cheap contracts
Trading Barkley says “We Quit”.  
BillT : 9/28/2022 5:36 pm : link
Can’t see that.
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