Put aside which camp you are on regarding Daniel Jones. This is the way I am thinking about his situation right now:
1) Giants are most likely going to draft in the 12-20 range. I base this on their schedule this year being easier than last and it seems like we have a competent HC.
2) With that draft range, we are out of the picture for any of the elite QB's in the draft. (I do not consider Levis an elite QB in next years draft).
3) Free Agency does not have many QB's to choose from next year. The best, by far, is Lamar. I have a hard time believing the Ravens will let him go without some sort of tag.
Now the Ravens have let star players go in the past (Ed Reed) so this is not out of the ordinary, but none of these star Ravens players have ever been the QB of the team.
4) Why would any FA come to us unless this OL improves? As well, who is he throwing to? We have no one to advertise a QB to.
My most likely scenario is that Jones will sign a 2-3 year contract, but he will have his suitors as well.
The main concern for me is that all the above are true, the Giants try to sign him and he signs elsewhere. At the end of the day, a team might look at him and say that he has not had a good OL, WR or steady coaching in his 4 years here, he can make the throws so why not chance a signing.
I want to ask all of you, if you do not want Jones, how do you look to address the QB position? Is my take wrong?
And who will be in the list of top prospects at QB and where they will be picked has a lot of time to come into focus.
There also will be many options available to Schoen to navigate the draft to increase his chances in drafting one.
Let's wait and see how it plays out :-)
I am firmly in the keep DJ short term camp and try to firm up the other myriad holes left by Gettlfucker
I also hope JS/BD adjust their team building philosophy and hopefully being in the NFCE for a year they see things are a bit different here than in Buffalo and the state of that division at the time. This shift allows more flexibility in selecting a QB imv.
and end with:
"We should sign Daniel Jones to a 3 year contract."
That's not logical. It's fucking bananas. You want to commit 3 more years to a failed QB. He sucks. He hasn't ever achieved the basic stat line of a star QB. Teams move on from guys like that. We have to start looking for a QB that has elite ability.
You're totally right. He's too good for us.
add my 2 cents to this thought
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
I don't think BD will have that luxury. Never seen a HC in this franchise have that type of time to get things going.
Taylor is the backup and possible starter for a few games in 2023 if they draft a QB next offseason. If that is not the plan then they will need a better solution imv which is part of the evaluation of Jones this year.
I am firmly in the keep DJ short term camp and try to firm up the other myriad holes left by Gettlfucker
Not sure we forget, we’re living through it
In comment 15837451 Mike from Ohio said:
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
Jones is incapable of feeding a playmaker. In 4 years he has failed to make a meaningful connection with any of his WRs. If he had AJ Brown, he would continue to check down, Brown would get upset, and fans would blame Brown.
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
Posters seem to forget that teams draft lots of different players in Rd 1, not just QBs.
Some morons even pick running backs :-)
Hold on a second. Last year was Hurts' first year as a starter in the NFL. So in year one he "just an average guy" but here we are in year 4 with Jones and arguing "we don't really know if he is any good?"
Jalen Hurts is already a better player than Jones. He has more talent and he has developed faster. A good coaching staff can find a good QB outside the top-5 of the draft. It is starting to happen almost every year as the similarities between the college game and the NFL game lessen.
And guess what? Next year we can also draft a WR and/or sign one or two in free agency. That option was not open to the Giants this year because they signed a free agent and paid him more than he was worth.
This is not some sort of 5-6 year rebuild as someone laughably suggested above. It isn't 1985 anymore.
I have also seen some great throws that shows he does have arm strength..
I could see the Giants giving him a 2 or 3 year deal, incentive laden while still looking to see if they find a franchise QB...Jones is capable to win with jist not sure if you win because of him..
Giants get him a number 1 this offseason and improve the rest of the team
I don't think BD will have that luxury. Never seen a HC in this franchise have that type of time to get things going.
Taylor is the backup and possible starter for a few games in 2023 if they draft a QB next offseason. If that is not the plan then they will need a better solution imv which is part of the evaluation of Jones this year.
Exactly. I agree. But the premise here was that we are getting a new “franchise” QB next year or if we get a new QB he will be a 2nd tier type. Tough spot.
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I don't think BD will have that luxury. Never seen a HC in this franchise have that type of time to get things going.
Taylor is the backup and possible starter for a few games in 2023 if they draft a QB next offseason. If that is not the plan then they will need a better solution imv which is part of the evaluation of Jones this year.
Exactly. I agree. But the premise here was that we are getting a new “franchise” QB next year or if we get a new QB he will be a 2nd tier type. Tough spot.
aren’t getting
He hasn't taken a big leap, and he's basically the same player he has been the first 3 years (you can argue he is better in the margins, but that's about it.) Nothing over these first 3 games will change the evaluation from rejecting a 1 year, cost controlled year, to giving him a multi year commitment
The Texans traded up for Watson.
The Bills traded up for Allen.
The Niners traded to for Lance.
The Bears traded up for Fields.
Which teams who are in the market for a QB just sit on their hands and wait? I’d urge a lot here to get comfortable with the fact that the 2024 first round pick could likely be moved to trade up for QB.
Hurts also has a great OL and run game behind him not to mention a top TE. but yeah Dan suxx
Hurts also has a great OL and run game behind him not to mention a top TE. but yeah Dan suxx
Trying something new is not a guarantee of winning. But it gives you a chance.
With Jones there is no chance. And that's why teams never ever commit to keeping QBs as bad a Jones.
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And Philadelphia, and they have brought in Smith and brown over the last two years. All of a sudden Hurts has gone from an average QB to one that’s playing lights out this year so far. I begin to question “Who have the Giants Surrounded Daniel Jones With”? That’s where I get lost in the situation
Hold on a second. Last year was Hurts' first year as a starter in the NFL. So in year one he "just an average guy" but here we are in year 4 with Jones and arguing "we don't really know if he is any good?"
Jalen Hurts is already a better player than Jones. He has more talent and he has developed faster. A good coaching staff can find a good QB outside the top-5 of the draft. It is starting to happen almost every year as the similarities between the college game and the NFL game lessen.
And guess what? Next year we can also draft a WR and/or sign one or two in free agency. That option was not open to the Giants this year because they signed a free agent and paid him more than he was worth.
This is not some sort of 5-6 year rebuild as someone laughably suggested above. It isn't 1985 anymore.
All of this
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
Great, now name every QB taken 6 or later that didnt become a franchise QB? It will be a very long list
A plan of "I am sure they can find someone" isnt a plan
Yet we still have distractors , spinning this performance as more evidence that he stinks. Lesson learned for me, I ve stopped paying attention to them.
But if Schoen and Daboll determine a rookie is available that gives them at least as much as Daniel does, it will be no brainer to move on
We’re moving on from Jones.
Book it
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that unless you are in the top-5 you can't get a franchise QB. This continues despite the fact the Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, and Lamar Jackson were all taken 6 or later (and aside from Herbert and Allen, all taken 10 or later).
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
Great, now name every QB taken 6 or later that didnt become a franchise QB? It will be a very long list
A plan of "I am sure they can find someone" isnt a plan
Now name every QB taken in the top 5 that didn't become a franchise QB. How about Darnold, Mayfield, Trubisky and Goff just to name some from the last few years?
Bad drafting is bad drafting. The point is that a top-5 pick is no guarantee of getting a franchise QB, nor is picking outside the top-5 a guarantee of missing on one.
Your posts are all emotion and zero logic.
For how many people rave over his rookie season, the majority of those stats came against the likes of an awful Bucs defense, the Jets & Washington.
The best win of the Giants season in 2020 was with Colt McCoy.
Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt in 2021 in what was a “prove it” year.
It drives me nuts, but I’m the “Jones hater”. I just can’t understand the logic of having such low standards at QB. And wanting to run it back with Jones! I don’t get it.
What will the drop off be? There has been and is no production. Jones is an awful red zone QB, this team never scores TD’s in the red zone.
And Hurts was producing even when he was considered “average”. This supposedly loaded Eagles roster everyone loves talking about which went 4-11-1 in 2020 and then made the playoffs in 2021 when Hurts took over.
Again, I get criticized for being a “hater” but I honestly think we have bigger Daniel Jones fans than Giant fans on BBI. Raise your standards.
Yet we still have distractors , spinning this performance as more evidence that he stinks. Lesson learned for me, I ve stopped paying attention to them.
But if Schoen and Daboll determine a rookie is available that gives them at least as much as Daniel does, it will be no brainer to move on
+1 - we all know the DJ detractor club - they are easy to spot and ignore.
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that unless you are in the top-5 you can't get a franchise QB. This continues despite the fact the Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, and Lamar Jackson were all taken 6 or later (and aside from Herbert and Allen, all taken 10 or later).
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
Great, now name every QB taken 6 or later that didnt become a franchise QB? It will be a very long list
A plan of "I am sure they can find someone" isnt a plan
And not trying to get better at the QB is only a losing plan.
This thread title asks for logic, so please just read if you don't qualify...
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that unless you are in the top-5 you can't get a franchise QB. This continues despite the fact the Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, and Lamar Jackson were all taken 6 or later (and aside from Herbert and Allen, all taken 10 or later).
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
Great, now name every QB taken 6 or later that didnt become a franchise QB? It will be a very long list
A plan of "I am sure they can find someone" isnt a plan
List gets even longer if you add 1 - 6 too
Mayfield, Darnold, Trubisky, Goff, Wentz, Winston, Mariota, Bortles
BTW I don't care if we keep Jones or not whatever gets us back to Superbowl wins
Besides the one year with Wentz, the Eagles have not paid for a QB since Bradford in 2015. That is how they are able to build a roster. Gettleman's biggest crime was not missing on Jones as much as failing to build around him with that excecss capital.
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Monday. He was the Giants best player on the field. He elevated a bunch of JV s, Sy s words not mine, to a fourth quarter league.
Yet we still have distractors , spinning this performance as more evidence that he stinks. Lesson learned for me, I ve stopped paying attention to them.
But if Schoen and Daboll determine a rookie is available that gives them at least as much as Daniel does, it will be no brainer to move on
+1 - we all know the DJ detractor club - they are easy to spot and ignore.
Jones played well on Monday. Pretty much everyone has said that. He has also played good games over his career. The point is that they are few and far between. He is consistently inconsistent game to game. Yes his supporting cast sucks. Nobody said it doesn't or that doesn't matter. But if you say you can't evaluate a player because the folks around him suck, will you explain why that does not apply to Kenny Golladay?
It can be true that Jones played well Monday, occasionally plays good games, and that he is not an NFL-level starting QB. Everyone who believes that doesn't hate Daniel Jones personally.
You have to fix the o line and receivers which will take two years.
So it really doesn't matter who the QB is for the next two years.
Jones won't physically survive the next two years here. He should move on for his own health and I think he will. I don't think he will want to sign with the Giants and the Giants aren't going to franchise him.
Jones may not be the solution but he is not the problem. Anyone who thinks changing the QB will fix our offense is out to lunch.
Eli could not be successful because our o line stunk. We wasted his final years.
Failing to build the o line has been an epic disaster. might as well trade Barkley now he will be shot by the time our line is fixed. Let him enjoy success elsewhere. He worked hard to get back and is running hard.
Draft, free agent, TT, doesn't matter. Until we fix the o line and get receivers it doesn't matter who the QB is. And starting a rookie behind this offense will just ruin him.
Fix the o line. Get receivers. And then go get your QB whether through the draft or a FA.
I like Jones. But he is best served by leaving. And the Giants are best served by fixing the o line, getting receivers, and then getting their QB.
We are at least 2-3 years away from being a good team. The Mara's screwed this team up with 10 years of complete and utter incompetence. Disgraceful.
Yet we still have distractors , spinning this performance as more evidence that he stinks. Lesson learned for me, I ve stopped paying attention to them.
But if Schoen and Daboll determine a rookie is available that gives them at least as much as Daniel does, it will be no brainer to move on
The QB is supposed to be the best player on the field. So Jones looked to you like the best player on a bad team. So what? He continued to hold the ball too long, stand line a statue in the pocket trying to figure out what was going on, then run around frantically, and we only scored 16 points. We don't need him to be the best player on the Giants, we beed him to be the 10th best player at his position. And other than a few diehards on here, everybody knows he's not.
This is absolutely ridiculous, and puts all of your comments about Jones into stark perspective.
Ive looked at them, I’ll wait.
I think because he checks so many boxes for them (not you obviously), they will do everything possible to make it work with Jones.
You can have your opinion and wish list, but listen to the HC. He’s pretty definitive avoir what he sees and what he wants.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
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In comment 15837451 Mike from Ohio said:
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that unless you are in the top-5 you can't get a franchise QB. This continues despite the fact the Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, and Lamar Jackson were all taken 6 or later (and aside from Herbert and Allen, all taken 10 or later).
The Giants have Taylor under contract for next year if there is nobody they like in the draft or free agency. We don't need someone slightly better than Taylor at a much higher price tag.
You brought in Daboll and Kafka to develop a QB. I am sure they can find someone with the skills they need to run a system designed for that player. And if he needs to sit and learn, you already have Taylor to start.
Jones will sign some sort of prove it deal somewhere. Nobody is bringing him to do anything other than compete with someone or be a backup.
Great, now name every QB taken 6 or later that didnt become a franchise QB? It will be a very long list
A plan of "I am sure they can find someone" isnt a plan
List gets even longer if you add 1 - 6 too
Mayfield, Darnold, Trubisky, Goff, Wentz, Winston, Mariota, Bortles
BTW I don't care if we keep Jones or not whatever gets us back to Superbowl wins
Here you go, every QB taken in Rd 1 since the 2010 draft. Complete crapshoot. Out of 36, I count 22 QB's that I would want Jones over, and 2 that I'm calling a tie (Tannehil and Baker), and 12 that I'd want over Jones.
Ponder, Bradford, Tebow, Cam, Locker, Gabbert, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, RG3, Luck, EJ Manual, Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, Mariotta, Winston, PAxton Lynch, Wentz, Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Trubisky, Jackson, Rosen, Josh Allen, Darnold, Baker, Haskins, Jones, Murray, Jordan Love, Herbert, Tua, Burrow, Lawrence