Put aside which camp you are on regarding Daniel Jones. This is the way I am thinking about his situation right now:
1) Giants are most likely going to draft in the 12-20 range. I base this on their schedule this year being easier than last and it seems like we have a competent HC.
2) With that draft range, we are out of the picture for any of the elite QB's in the draft. (I do not consider Levis an elite QB in next years draft).
3) Free Agency does not have many QB's to choose from next year. The best, by far, is Lamar. I have a hard time believing the Ravens will let him go without some sort of tag.
Now the Ravens have let star players go in the past (Ed Reed) so this is not out of the ordinary, but none of these star Ravens players have ever been the QB of the team.
4) Why would any FA come to us unless this OL improves? As well, who is he throwing to? We have no one to advertise a QB to.
My most likely scenario is that Jones will sign a 2-3 year contract, but he will have his suitors as well.
The main concern for me is that all the above are true, the Giants try to sign him and he signs elsewhere. At the end of the day, a team might look at him and say that he has not had a good OL, WR or steady coaching in his 4 years here, he can make the throws so why not chance a signing.
I want to ask all of you, if you do not want Jones, how do you look to address the QB position? Is my take wrong?
Ive looked at them, I’ll wait.
I think because he checks so many boxes for them (not you obviously), they will do everything possible to make it work with Jones.
You can have your opinion and wish list, but listen to the HC. He’s pretty definitive avoir what he sees and what he wants.
So you can't converse without a personal attack? You lose right there. I will be polite to you even though your parents brought you up to be impolite to others
You believe everything Daboll says about Jones? What, you expect him to run his mouth about the starting QB? He's trying to win games. You don't knee what BD thinks of Jones. None of us do. That's the one truth you can take from this thread. Coaches have no incentive to tell you what they really think.
I have also seen some great throws that shows he does have arm strength..
I could see the Giants giving him a 2 or 3 year deal, incentive laden while still looking to see if they find a franchise QB...Jones is capable to win with jist not sure if you win because of him..
Giants get him a number 1 this offseason and improve the rest of the team
That is fine, I guess, but when in the modern era has a starting QB resigned with the team that drafted him for less than market rate? Especially a QB that didn't have his 5th year picked up. I don't recall any. Maybe the Giants break the mold, but I doubt it. Taylor was signed for a 2nd year for a reason.
WTF do you think DJ is?
How many times do you estimate you told another poster(s) that they will "have to eat crow" because you had a better opinion? And how many times did they actually have to?
I am guessing your batting average is like 0 for a thousand...
Odd view. Most of us want to see the Giants get better and win. But I suppose rooting against other fans is fun for some as well.
Ive looked at them, I’ll wait.
I think because he checks so many boxes for them (not you obviously), they will do everything possible to make it work with Jones.
You can have your opinion and wish list, but listen to the HC. He’s pretty definitive avoir what he sees and what he wants.
this is a really lame post Dave...
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants ein they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
And what happens to the Jones dead-enders when Schoen & Co decide to go in another direction? If they resign Jones, I'm fine with that, but as I've asked repeatedly on this thread - and a question no one has tried to answer - when has this happened before?
When has a starting QB, one whose 5th year was not picked up, signed for under market value with the team that drafted him? You're on the clock, Joe...[cue in Jeopardy music}.
I prefer to see how it plays out, see what Daboll and Kafka can do with him.
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
And what happens to the Jones dead-enders when Schoen & Co decide to go in another direction? If they resign Jones, I'm fine with that, but as I've asked repeatedly on this thread - and a question no one has tried to answer - when has this happened before?
When has a starting QB, one whose 5th year was not picked up, signed for under market value with the team that drafted him? You're on the clock, Joe...[cue in Jeopardy music}.
Just because it hasnt happened doesnt mean it cant and i am one who is ready to move on bit i also recognize that he is playing better each week so its possible he can come back..
There people who wanted Eli gone after his 3rd year and halfway through his 4th year and they won a superbowl..
I dont think Jones will ever be a top 10 QB bit i dont think its out of the realm of possibility that he is brought back for a yesr or 2 until they find their guy
What the two of them have to do to have success is apples and oranges.
It should also be noted that Jones is not the only one on the clock to prove himself. Sure Jones' time is almost up but Schoen and Daboll are on the clock as well. This year was about changing the culture and evaluating the roster especially Jones. It was Schoen's first task to assemble an oline capable enough to allow an evaluation to be done.
So far not so good for Joe.
I prefer to see how it plays out, see what Daboll and Kafka can do with him.
He takes the most time from snap to release. You don't think Daboll knows this? He has not made enough adjustments to cope with pressure. Watch better QBs who take shorter drops, are better at the quick hitting game, who are more decisive. We're into the 4th year and we are seeing the same Jones. Slow and indecisive.
His second biggest issue is redzone production. Not sure if this is all his fault but We don't seem to have any players healthy or on the roster that can get open in the shorter field. Golliday is supposed to be the 50/50 guy in the redzone and we see how he hasn't scored since being signed.
Those people saying this is all on Jones are wrong. Those saying Jones is the best option for 2023 might be right.
The truth about the entire situation for me is:
1. Jones is improving
2. The QB position is difficult to play and the most important position in football.
3. We will never know his true ability if he is pressured 20 to 25 times a game.
4. We will never know his true ability until we get WE/TE who can separate or win 50/50 balls.
5. You need to score points in this league. The QB is in charge of that and he needs to elevate his teammates.
Bottom line: Jones is not elite but could become a solid QB. The coaching staff and front office may see the same thing.
1) It's not even October and the Giants record is already determined
2) It's not even October, and the landscape of draftable QBs is already set (including dismissing one of the QBs plenty of folks think is a bona fide 1st rouder)
3) Jones will have plenty of suitors, but will decide to sign a 2 or 3 year deal, which is quite an outlier for a second contract for a starting QB
Maybe this thread would be better stated as I like Daniel Jones, and I want the Giants to sign him. -- and leave out the other silly stuff?
They have some time to turn things around on offense and improve the OL but this offensive staff has a lot to prove as does JS. BD's track record is pretty dismal until he got Allen AND Diggs and Buffalo again has the same issues on offense this year. The AFCE is not the NFCE.
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Eli was 37 and it was obvious the Giants would not win with him again; not there yet with Daniel,
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In comment 15837504 joe48 said:
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants ein they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
And many want the Giants to stick with Jones even if it means the team continues to lose. It is more important for them to be right than admit they were wrong (which everyone is time and again).
It is just amazing to me that all of the "all or nothing" posters can't see they are literally the exact kind of fan they are criticizing.
Unfortunately for DJ it may cost him his career here. Its now the 4th straight year of this nonsense. Anyones guess what this means for DJ.
Just because it hasnt happened doesnt mean it cant and i am one who is ready to move on bit i also recognize that he is playing better each week so its possible he can come back..
There people who wanted Eli gone after his 3rd year and halfway through his 4th year and they won a superbowl..
I dont think Jones will ever be a top 10 QB bit i dont think its out of the realm of possibility that he is brought back for a yesr or 2 until they find their guy
Sure, as I said, the Giants could be the first team to do it, but I find that extremely unlikely. I guess if there is no one in the draft that they like, they could try to bring him back on an incentive-laden deal, but again, history suggests this won't happen.
It takes 2 to tango. Even if the Giants decide they want to bring DJ back at a below-market rate, will he accept that? I think the odds are long that both sides will be on the same page here.
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In comment 15837504 joe48 said:
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants ein they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
What a load of nonsense. Being critical of Jones doesn't mean anybody wants him to fail. This ridiculous deflection of criticism is growing tiresome.
Unfortunately for DJ it may cost him his career here. Its now the 4th straight year of this nonsense. Anyones guess what this means for DJ.
Has there ever been another player that could not be evaluated after fours years in the league, including three as a starter?
Did every QB the Browns cut get a fair shot with a decent roster? Or was it clear that multiple players can suck at the same time?
This has gotten beyond silly.
I’d love to hear the list of playmakers he’s played with and add games played to that list as well. I’ll be waiting….
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In comment 15837504 joe48 said:
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants ein they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
And I think it's less about Daniel Jones and moreso they want to say "see I was right" because they hate and think posters kind of like you suck.
He spent 4 years at Duke under the "QB whisperer" in Cutcliffe. He's in his 4th year in the NFL. If he still struggles with pre-snap reads, he's never going to get it.
Unfortunately for DJ it may cost him his career here. Its now the 4th straight year of this nonsense. Anyones guess what this means for DJ.
Maybe when he is 37 we can evaluate him?
Franchise QBs can make chicken salad out of chicken shit. If he can't elevate the team he is not the answer.
But really, I'd sign him long term and guarantee him 30mil at signing.
Derek Carr is the contract I'm looking at.
"Derek Carr signed a three year, $120.5 million extension with the Raiders. $65.2 million is guaranteed of which $24.9 million is guaranteed at signing. If Carr is on the roster on the 3rd day of the waiver period in 2023, his 2023 base salary and $7.5 million of his 2024 base salary will be guaranteed. The extension created $500,000 in cap space for the Raiders in 2022." Just minus the 2024 guarantee.
Link - ( New Window )
I’d love to hear the list of playmakers he’s played with and add games played to that list as well. I’ll be waiting….
I'd like to see that list as well. But hey, he has had a top Ol and running game to fall back on right?
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In comment 15837507 Sean said:
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In comment 15837504 joe48 said:
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants ein they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
And I think it's less about Daniel Jones and moreso they want to say "see I was right" because they hate and think posters kind of like you suck.
Posters like me? why do i suck?
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In comment 15837507 Sean said:
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In comment 15837504 joe48 said:
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants ein they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
What a load of nonsense. Being critical of Jones doesn't mean anybody wants him to fail. This ridiculous deflection of criticism is growing tiresome.
Whose deflecting criticism? who said Jones is not at fault? Who said Jones is a franchise QB?
and it is 100% true that people on this forum root for Jones to fail so they can say see i told you so..
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is you AGAIN cant evaluate Jones. How do you evaluate him throwing to these WRs and running for his life behind this OL giving up historic amounts of pressure? if you were told Golladay wasnt forked and theyd get nothing from Toney and Robinson, what would you think should happen?
Unfortunately for DJ it may cost him his career here. Its now the 4th straight year of this nonsense. Anyones guess what this means for DJ.
Maybe when he is 37 we can evaluate him?
Franchise QBs can make chicken salad out of chicken shit. If he can't elevate the team he is not the answer.
DO IT ANYWAYZ JONEZ!!!
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Just because it hasnt happened doesnt mean it cant and i am one who is ready to move on bit i also recognize that he is playing better each week so its possible he can come back..
There people who wanted Eli gone after his 3rd year and halfway through his 4th year and they won a superbowl..
I dont think Jones will ever be a top 10 QB bit i dont think its out of the realm of possibility that he is brought back for a yesr or 2 until they find their guy
Sure, as I said, the Giants could be the first team to do it, but I find that extremely unlikely. I guess if there is no one in the draft that they like, they could try to bring him back on an incentive-laden deal, but again, history suggests this won't happen.
It takes 2 to tango. Even if the Giants decide they want to bring DJ back at a below-market rate, will he accept that? I think the odds are long that both sides will be on the same page here.
You will probably end up being right and i prefer them to draft a franchise guy that they like over keeping Jones at this moment..
I just wouldnt be surprised if they dont like any of the guys or they cant get up to get them that they go to Jones and offer him a 2 or 3 year incentive deal...he may say go pound salt and go somewhere else but i dont think its out of the realm that that happens
Don't worry about googs. He doesn't understand the impact a running game has on a offense in setting up the pass but he watches Nick Saban videos so he has all the answers.
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Monday. He was the Giants best player on the field. He elevated a bunch of JV s, Sy s words not mine, to a fourth quarter league.
Yet we still have distractors , spinning this performance as more evidence that he stinks. Lesson learned for me, I ve stopped paying attention to them.
But if Schoen and Daboll determine a rookie is available that gives them at least as much as Daniel does, it will be no brainer to move on
+1 - we all know the DJ detractor club - they are easy to spot and ignore.
Daniel Jonwes is better than Barkley? I think not. Maybe if you include his injured season up to this point. But Barkley is easily the best Giant.
And anyone else think it odd that a Running back is Jones #2 receiver in addition to break out runs?
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants win they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
Come on man, you're a better poster than this. It's fine to believe that Jones is a better QB than he has shown, I think we all agree that he has been dealt a bad hand, but the idea that "many" of the posters who just don't see it with Jones actively want the team to lose is more than a bit unfair. We all want the Giants to win.
My problem is with many of the Jones acolytes who make the same claim you did, but have ZERO problem tarring, feathering and flaying other Giants who they feel have played poorly (step up Evan Engram!). Why does Jones get a pass for poor play? If the surrounding cast is an issue for Jones, why isn't it for other players? How much of Golladay's struggles, for example, are due to Jones not being able to deliver the types of throws KG thrives on?
The reason so many of the Jones doubters are especially vocal is that the acolytes take any remotely decent game as proof that Jones is the guy. Like game 1. He played OK, made a nice read on the long TD pass to Shep, but did little else. Or Monday night, where he played with a ton of toughness and grit, but was the team ever in the RZ? I don't believe they got there once. Now obviously, DJ can't be blamed for all of it, but he has to shoulder some of it. He is the QB, after all.
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Riddle me this Batman. Daboll prefers a QB with the physical stature that Jones has , just for example. name me ONE of the guys coming out for the 23 draft who have that physical size.
Ive looked at them, I’ll wait.
I think because he checks so many boxes for them (not you obviously), they will do everything possible to make it work with Jones.
You can have your opinion and wish list, but listen to the HC. He’s pretty definitive avoir what he sees and what he wants.
So you can't converse without a personal attack? You lose right there. I will be polite to you even though your parents brought you up to be impolite to others
You believe everything Daboll says about Jones? What, you expect him to run his mouth about the starting QB? He's trying to win games. You don't knee what BD thinks of Jones. None of us do. That's the one truth you can take from this thread. Coaches have no incentive to tell you what they really think.
I don’t believe most of the time what a coach says about a player publicly.
But in a thread that was deleted yesterday, I did offer that Dabolls comments on Jones trend more to effusive praise than him trying to avoid answering questions about the quarterback with generic coach speak.
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His biggest problem right now IMO is pre snap reads. This can be taught and improved upon.
He spent 4 years at Duke under the "QB whisperer" in Cutcliffe. He's in his 4th year in the NFL. If he still struggles with pre-snap reads, he's never going to get it.
what reads is he missing in this new offense (this year) ... seriously I am not trying to say you are wrong just looking for examples ... I can only go by what others show on the all 22 when they break down the plays and it seems he is making the reads especially in the Dallas game he made the right reads guys dropped balls or you saw his eyes move to the right guy but had no time in the pocket ... I think he is slowly improving but we will see ... still many games to be played this year for him to be evaluated
what reads is he missing in this new offense (this year) ... seriously I am not trying to say you are wrong just looking for examples ... I can only go by what others show on the all 22 when they break down the plays and it seems he is making the reads especially in the Dallas game he made the right reads guys dropped balls or you saw his eyes move to the right guy but had no time in the pocket ... I think he is slowly improving but we will see ... still many games to be played this year for him to be evaluated
I'm not the one who said he missing reads. I was merely pointing out that if he was still missing reads after 8 years of NFL-level coaching, that light is probably never going on.
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In comment 15837520 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15837507 Sean said:
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In comment 15837504 joe48 said:
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Jones could be the best option and that will be decided by the GM. The anybody but DJ choir will have to eat crow. Will be pretty funny since they have expended so energy trying to run him out of NY.
You think it’s funny. I just want to see the Giants win.
joeinpa: all the same things I’ve said about Jones you said about Eli. I remember you being so critical of Eli and he had a history of success. I just don’t get it. It’s been 4 years.
Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants ein they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
And I think it's less about Daniel Jones and moreso they want to say "see I was right" because they hate and think posters kind of like you suck.
Posters like me? why do i suck?
You'll have to ask them...
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Sean many on here who hate Jones or says he sucks do not care if the giants win they just want Jones to suck to say see i was right
Come on man, you're a better poster than this. It's fine to believe that Jones is a better QB than he has shown, I think we all agree that he has been dealt a bad hand, but the idea that "many" of the posters who just don't see it with Jones actively want the team to lose is more than a bit unfair. We all want the Giants to win.
My problem is with many of the Jones acolytes who make the same claim you did, but have ZERO problem tarring, feathering and flaying other Giants who they feel have played poorly (step up Evan Engram!). Why does Jones get a pass for poor play? If the surrounding cast is an issue for Jones, why isn't it for other players? How much of Golladay's struggles, for example, are due to Jones not being able to deliver the types of throws KG thrives on?
The reason so many of the Jones doubters are especially vocal is that the acolytes take any remotely decent game as proof that Jones is the guy. Like game 1. He played OK, made a nice read on the long TD pass to Shep, but did little else. Or Monday night, where he played with a ton of toughness and grit, but was the team ever in the RZ? I don't believe they got there once. Now obviously, DJ can't be blamed for all of it, but he has to shoulder some of it. He is the QB, after all.
I am Jones doubter hahaha
I dont want to keep Jones, i dont think he is franchise QB, i dont think he is the future
Don't worry about googs. He doesn't understand the impact a running game has on a offense in setting up the pass but he watches Nick Saban videos so he has all the answers.
Giants lost on Monday becasue they only ran the ball 25 times. Everybody knows the magic number is 30 guaranteeing victory.
If Daboll calls 5 running plays in a row on that final drive, we would be 3-0 right now...
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Your post was very fair. Getting a true number one is exactly what Buffalo did. When Buffalo added Diggs (and a couple others) their p/g went to over 30. Prior to that they were below 20.
Don't worry about googs. He doesn't understand the impact a running game has on a offense in setting up the pass but he watches Nick Saban videos so he has all the answers.
Giants lost on Monday becasue they only ran the ball 25 times. Everybody knows the magic number is 30 guaranteeing victory.
If Daboll calls 5 running plays in a row on that final drive, we would be 3-0 right now...
This is you trying to show how smart you are. That is never what I said. I simply have said that successful running marked by high rushing carries correlates to winning. It also opens up PA being in favorable down/distance by keeping the defense off balance which impacts the passing game even with less than ideal WR options.
You should not be calling any posters stupid when stupid is staring right back at you. Learn the fundamentals.
If Daboll calls 5 running plays in a row on that final drive, we would be 3-0 right now...
You forgot physical. If only the Giants had been more physical. (Not to mention if Reese hadn't put that Super Bowl clock in the locker room, that loomed large as well.)
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Monday. He was the Giants best player on the field. He elevated a bunch of JV s, Sy s words not mine, to a fourth quarter league.
Yet we still have distractors , spinning this performance as more evidence that he stinks. Lesson learned for me, I ve stopped paying attention to them.
But if Schoen and Daboll determine a rookie is available that gives them at least as much as Daniel does, it will be no brainer to move on
+1 - we all know the DJ detractor club - they are easy to spot and ignore.
The same thing was said about the Gettleman detractors
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In comment 15837570 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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Your post was very fair. Getting a true number one is exactly what Buffalo did. When Buffalo added Diggs (and a couple others) their p/g went to over 30. Prior to that they were below 20.
Don't worry about googs. He doesn't understand the impact a running game has on a offense in setting up the pass but he watches Nick Saban videos so he has all the answers.
Giants lost on Monday becasue they only ran the ball 25 times. Everybody knows the magic number is 30 guaranteeing victory.
If Daboll calls 5 running plays in a row on that final drive, we would be 3-0 right now...
This is you trying to show how smart you are. That is never what I said. I simply have said that successful running marked by high rushing carries correlates to winning. It also opens up PA being in favorable down/distance by keeping the defense off balance which impacts the passing game even with less than ideal WR options.
You should not be calling any posters stupid when stupid is staring right back at you. Learn the fundamentals.
30 carries baby! Don't let anybody tell you differently...
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Giants lost on Monday becasue they only ran the ball 25 times. Everybody knows the magic number is 30 guaranteeing victory.
If Daboll calls 5 running plays in a row on that final drive, we would be 3-0 right now...
You forgot physical. If only the Giants had been more physical. (Not to mention if Reese hadn't put that Super Bowl clock in the locker room, that loomed large as well.)
Yes, the super bowl clock has been an annual killer...