I always look forward to Sy's game reviews, they're inciteful and interesting. However, I do have one criticism on Mondays review. First, full disclosure I am A DJ supporter. I don't understand how DJ was not named a stud in Sy'S review. With the constant pressure he faced all night he hung in, made excellent passes, ran for first downs and fought through out the game. I think he was the main reason the score was even close. IMO Sy is not a DJ fan and I understand that, I also understand there are many on this board who feel the same way and that's ok. That's what this board is all about, different opinions. However, I can't see any fair minded fan not giving him credit for the gutsy performance. IMO DJ not being named a stud is inexcusable.
as mentioned there is only 3 studs, and they were all legit.
Life is too short.
And calling it a "snub" is quite a stretch. I'm pretty sure Daniel is not sitting in his car sobbing over it.
Here is a portion of what he said:
“If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line.”
there could be a little confirmation bias at work. That said, I tend to doubt it. Sy calls it like he sees it. He also said at the beginning of the year that when it comes to Jones this year, it's best to just let it play out.
I personally don't get all the vitriol for Jones. He works hard, plays hard, and has really little to work with. Yet he's vilified by many fans who apparently feel as though they just have to be right that Jones is not the guy instead of rooting for a guy that's doing all he can to try to turn this thing around.
This is the same fan base that talked about a super bowl winning GM as if he was a plague unleashed on the Giants and humanity really.
This loss to a team playing with a backup QB, without their pro bowl LT, their #2 WR etc. Is talked about like some kind of heroic effort.
The man had zero TDs and had under 200 yards passing and 54.1% completion rate. Shockingly it's possible, and I've seen it with my own eyes, QBs with terrible supporting casts putting up actual good numbers and winning against better teams! Teams that aren't starting backup QBs.
Jesus with this. Even his harshest critics agree it was a good game but why on earth this need to force others to heap praise on him?
you sure know how to spot 'em, huh?
Which is funny because someone here started a thread saying he played on rollerskates the whole game and was overrated, with a bunch of agreeing posts.
I was like, did I watch the same game?
Yes, having 6 passes dropped had nothing to do with the outcome...
He controls his own fate. What pro athlete doesn't want that opportunity?
I'd expect better from you.
The Delay of Game did really bother me, though.
But anyway - the Stud-Dud list is always subjective. I think the write ups are more important than that. And in the write up, I was very complementary of him. I put this in the "good pile" when it comes to looking back on his 2022 season and where NYG should move forward regarding his contract situation.
I am nor a supporter of hater of Jones. I will say this, however. I want him to be the guy for NYG. I don't want to start over. But he needs to prove he is worth the contract he will likely demand to be a second-contract starting QB in this league.
Thank you for taking my words and thoughts and making them yours. I’m flattered, not upset.
This is the same fan base that talked about a super bowl winning GM as if he was a plague unleashed on the Giants and humanity really.
This loss to a team playing with a backup QB, without their pro bowl LT, their #2 WR etc. Is talked about like some kind of heroic effort.
The man had zero TDs and had under 200 yards passing and 54.1% completion rate. Shockingly it's possible, and I've seen it with my own eyes, QBs with terrible supporting casts putting up actual good numbers and winning against better teams! Teams that aren't starting backup QBs.
Jesus with this. Even his harshest critics agree it was a good game but why on earth this need to force others to heap praise on him?
So was Jones facing Dallas's backup QB, backup LT, and #3 WR (instead of #2)? And which of our receivers compare with Cee Dee Lamb?
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and yet the Giants scored only 16 points and lost a winnable game. Not a stud.
I'd expect better from you.
I've posted throughout the week on Jones, not seen anyone debunk it yet.
The Delay of Game did really bother me, though.
But anyway - the Stud-Dud list is always subjective. I think the write ups are more important than that. And in the write up, I was very complementary of him. I put this in the "good pile" when it comes to looking back on his 2022 season and where NYG should move forward regarding his contract situation.
I am nor a supporter of hater of Jones. I will say this, however. I want him to be the guy for NYG. I don't want to start over. But he needs to prove he is worth the contract he will likely demand to be a second-contract starting QB in this league.
Take off the blindfolds at look at our receivers and o line.
Is Jones the solution? Who knows.
But I do know the o line and receivers are the problem.
Can we fix them before we attempt to fix the QB position.
Was he talking about Jones or this Mr. kickoff?
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and yet the Giants scored only 16 points and lost a winnable game. Not a stud.
Yes, having 6 passes dropped had nothing to do with the outcome...
Jones didn't get enough help, for sure, a heroic performance, for sure. But he still plays like a very average or below QB.
He controls his own fate. What pro athlete doesn't want that opportunity?
What are the 7 other wins?
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and yet the Giants scored only 16 points and lost a winnable game. Not a stud.
Yes, having 6 passes dropped had nothing to do with the outcome...
No one seems to use drops when they're trying to compare DJ favorably to Joe Burrow. And yet somehow Ja'Marr Chase leads the NFL in drops so far this season and the Bengals have the same amount of drops, as a team, as the Giants do.
Take off the blindfolds at look at our receivers and o line.
Is Jones the solution? Who knows.
But I do know the o line and receivers are the problem.
Can we fix them before we attempt to fix the QB position.
In the past decade of horrid Giants football, I doubt they ever had such a horrid situation as they do now at wide receiver. It is scarily bad. A first class disaster!
Take off the blindfolds at look at our receivers and o line.
Is Jones the solution? Who knows.
But I do know the o line and receivers are the problem.
Can we fix them before we attempt to fix the QB position.
In the past decade of horrid Giants football, I doubt they ever had such a horrid situation as they do now at wide receiver. It is scarily bad. A first class disaster!
Who did Jones outplay from that list?
bad
average
good
great
QB is not clear in some of your own minds. That is the biggest roadblock many of you have when it comes to evaluating Jones and where he is and where he can be.
If it were my money, "good enough" won't work in today's NFL if your are chasing year after year Super Bowl contention.
I wonder if Schoen is going to take these snubs into account and put a little extra $ into that Franchise Tag contract he's drafting up...
Take off the blindfolds at look at our receivers and o line.
Is Jones the solution? Who knows.
But I do know the o line and receivers are the problem.
Can we fix them before we attempt to fix the QB position.
It's really amazing how dense the DJFC continues to be.
No one thinks that changing the QB magically transforms the Giants into contenders. Rather, the point is that continuing with DJ has a limiting effect that precludes the Giants from being contenders, and combined with his soon-to-increase cap cost (likely to be a significant increase even with a below-market contract), it's better to hit the reset button at QB than it is to voluntarily evacuate the rookie-contract-QB stage of the rebuild because of how many other positions on offense still require work, and because the current QB remains unproven after 3+ seasons.
I've asked this question before, but I don't think anyone bothered to answer: at your own jobs, when you have an employee on a PIP and he reaches the end with an unfavorable outcome, do you just keep him on the payroll because you haven't hired his replacement yet?
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...there was just one pressure by the group that included a lineman actually beating a blocker. That was by Dexter Lawrence, who also added 5 tackles and was a force inside.
Which is funny because someone here started a thread saying he played on rollerskates the whole game and was overrated, with a bunch of agreeing posts.
I was like, did I watch the same game?
Which, to some posters, you are allowed to criticize any player on the team EXCEPT for the QB. Then you're a hater.
Eli still threw for like 200-300 yards, would have like a 90 rating.
Who was he playing with ? Cody Lattimer, Rhett Ellison, Sterling Shep, Evan Engram. A head case, selfish immature OBJ? who was injured a lot also.
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and yet the Giants scored only 16 points and lost a winnable game. Not a stud.
Yes, having 6 passes dropped had nothing to do with the outcome...
Were there 6 drops? I know that drops can be a subjective topic, but NBC Sports has the Giants with 4 drops all year.
That said, he also had a clear pick-6 go through Diggs's hands because he threw late to an open Shep. How does his game look if Diggs makes that play?
Exactly. Jones exudes mediocrity. He was mediocre in college, and he's been mediocre at best as a pro.
Link - ( New Window )
we have the biblical recreation of Daniel in the Lion's Den.
(I couldn't resist.)
Kudos for scooping "kickoff" at least, ha. Solid find.
I fixed it for you
Now, watch Mara trip all over this and make Jones the first.
as mentioned there is only 3 studs, and they were all legit.
Now read Sy's post on this very thread.
Now, watch Mara trip all over this and make Jones the first.
I've seen way too many people say definitively this isn't going to happen. I'm more no than yes right now but I'm astounded at some people's confidence that this has no chance of happening
Now, watch Mara trip all over this and make Jones the first.
The Giants have had terrible offenses with Jones as QB and Jones' touchdown production has been among the worst of starting QBs in the league. The objective data isn't in his favor - subjectively, I don't 'see it' either. Even his biggest fans seem to be merely hoping with him. I think the chances of him developing into a plus-NFL starter are really slim.
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in the review. in terms of DJFC vs DJCB he stated he was going to withhold judgement until the season was over, and has done that.
as mentioned there is only 3 studs, and they were all legit.
Now read Sy's post on this very thread.
he actually has 2 posts on this thread, fyi, and I have read both. Not only have I read them, but I also understand what he is saying. I doubt you have that capacity. but keep running your mouth and proving my point.
Anything worse than 4-3 in these games is not a good result.
Eli still threw for like 200-300 yards, would have like a 90 rating.
Who was he playing with ? Cody Lattimer, Rhett Ellison, Sterling Shep, Evan Engram. A head case, selfish immature OBJ? who was injured a lot also.
Umm you can try to bury OBJ, but having him and Shep in his prime would be like a fantasy come true right now. Do you want to compare that to James and Sills?
Anything worse than 4-3 in these games is not a good result.
Haha...you really believe that if the Jones-led NY Giants don't win 4 of the next 7 game that his Fan Club members will jump ship??
Not a chance. There are excuses coming from the DJFC that we haven't even contemplated before on this site. Trust me, they're coming...
Which deficits are you talking about? The one’s you conveniently parrot over and without admitting reality. Your opinion is well documented.
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Who were these All-Pros that Eli Manning was throwing to in his last few games?
Eli still threw for like 200-300 yards, would have like a 90 rating.
Who was he playing with ? Cody Lattimer, Rhett Ellison, Sterling Shep, Evan Engram. A head case, selfish immature OBJ? who was injured a lot also.
Umm you can try to bury OBJ, but having him and Shep in his prime would be like a fantasy come true right now. Do you want to compare that to James and Sills?
You’re kidding if you think OBJ wouldn’t have demanded a trade by now for not getting enough touches and thrown Danny “dimes” under the boss like 5x on twitter by now.
His 1 receiver is a slot his 2 is a running back. I’m willing to be open minded about what that means as far as giving the benefit of the doubt to poor oline play and Golladay being a bad scheme fit but I don’t know.
When I look at the box score of Eli’s games ; he threw to his receivers and for more yards . As far as I can tell this guy is a blue collar player ; a lot of effort and no skill that has a lot of posters seeing smoke and mirrors.
I am not sure D. Jones is capable of a 2 step drop and firing a pass off.
Anything worse than 4-3 in these games is not a good result.
I can see maybe two wins on that list. Maybe push it to three
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Declining a QB's fifth year option in the NFL means he's almost certainly gone next March. I believe I read no other QB in his situation returned to the team.
There has been no other QB in his situation. It is unique. New Head Coach, new GM, and he ended the previous season on IR (to go along with missing games to injury his first two seasons). The whole "declining the 5th year option means he's a goner" argument is a red herring. All it means is that management isn't convinced he's the answer. It doesn't mean management is convinced that he isn't.
Herbert had a whole new staff going into his second year. Burrow ended his rookie season on the IR then went to the Super Bowl in his second season.
Herbert had a whole new staff going into his second year. Burrow ended his rookie season on the IR then went to the Super Bowl in his second season.
p.s.--The argument that some are making is that if the Jets/Panthers and Browns made the mistake of picking up Darnold's and Mayfield's option, the Giants are obligated to make the same mistake with Jones. But there's no law that says you can't learn from other team's mistakes. In a copycat league, you copy what winning teams do, not what the losing teams do.
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It's possible you don't realize it, but you're being extremely hypersensitive regarding Jones. For my money, while he certainly played hard, it was a mixed performance that showed many of the deficits he showed throughout his career. I think if you watched another QB do this for an NFC rival you wouldn't be nearly so bullish about it.
Which deficits are you talking about? The one’s you conveniently parrot over and without admitting reality. Your opinion is well documented.
He holds the ball too long. He checks down too often. He doesn't feel the rush. He lacks awareness. He doesn't seem to scan the field and read the defense. Shall I go on?
Come on. The NFL isn't so easy to master that you can afford to pass on a winning QB if you see one. It is rare when you get one in your grasp. I don't think JS/BD will let Jones walk due to ego. If they let him go it's because they don't believe he is good enough.
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...Is that there can be the ego's desire on the part of a GM (any GM) to be the guy who drafts the guy who wins the Super Bowl. That's what GM legacies are built on. Jerry Reese will forever share credit with Ernie Accorsi for the Super Bowls because Ernie was the one who drafted Eli. Does Schoen want his legacy to be forever attached to David Gettleman? Giants fans will remember Gettleman far differently than they are speaking of him now if the Giants were to win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones.
Come on. The NFL isn't so easy to master that you can afford to pass on a winning QB if you see one. It is rare when you get one in your grasp. I don't think JS/BD will let Jones walk due to ego. If they let him go it's because they don't believe he is good enough.
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In comment 15838081 Milton said:
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...Is that there can be the ego's desire on the part of a GM (any GM) to be the guy who drafts the guy who wins the Super Bowl. That's what GM legacies are built on. Jerry Reese will forever share credit with Ernie Accorsi for the Super Bowls because Ernie was the one who drafted Eli. Does Schoen want his legacy to be forever attached to David Gettleman? Giants fans will remember Gettleman far differently than they are speaking of him now if the Giants were to win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones.
Come on. The NFL isn't so easy to master that you can afford to pass on a winning QB if you see one. It is rare when you get one in your grasp. I don't think JS/BD will let Jones walk due to ego. If they let him go it's because they don't believe he is good enough.
You're assuming it will be a clear-cut decision one way or the other, but it could still be a debatable point at the end of the season, a situation where there could be an honest difference of opinion between knowledgable talent evaluators (and I'm talking about the professionals, not us fans). We'd all love for Jones to either play well enough or poorly enough to make it an obvious decision, but that may not be the case. If he's even, he's leaving, could apply to DJ's status with the team.
If we don't know by the end of season 4, we know.
Personally, I don't think he's the problem. It's hard to be convinced he's the solution, either, but no one (I trust) really knows. The fans and the media talking heads don't know. Guys like Daboll and Kafka know, but you're not gonna get a straight answer from them.
As I write this, I'm sitting here watching Tua vs. Burrow, and the thing that strikes me most is that they BOTH have TIME TO THROW, and TALENT to throw to.
Jones has neither.
Personally, I don't think he's the problem. It's hard to be convinced he's the solution, either, but no one (I trust) really knows. The fans and the media talking heads don't know. Guys like Daboll and Kafka know, but you're not gonna get a straight answer from them.
As I write this, I'm sitting here watching Tua vs. Burrow, and the thing that strikes me most is that they BOTH have TIME TO THROW, and TALENT to throw to.
Jones has neither.
No lies.
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In comment 15838081 Milton said:
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...Is that there can be the ego's desire on the part of a GM (any GM) to be the guy who drafts the guy who wins the Super Bowl. That's what GM legacies are built on. Jerry Reese will forever share credit with Ernie Accorsi for the Super Bowls because Ernie was the one who drafted Eli. Does Schoen want his legacy to be forever attached to David Gettleman? Giants fans will remember Gettleman far differently than they are speaking of him now if the Giants were to win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones.
Come on. The NFL isn't so easy to master that you can afford to pass on a winning QB if you see one. It is rare when you get one in your grasp. I don't think JS/BD will let Jones walk due to ego. If they let him go it's because they don't believe he is good enough.
You're assuming it will be a clear-cut decision one way or the other, but it could still be a debatable point at the end of the season, a situation where there could be an honest difference of opinion between knowledgable talent evaluators (and I'm talking about the professionals, not us fans). We'd all love for Jones to either play well enough or poorly enough to make it an obvious decision, but that may not be the case. If he's even, he's leaving, could apply to DJ's status with the team.
Haha...if it’s an honest difference of opinion then we still have the wrong talent evaluators.
Start relying on the opinions that said ‘no thanks’ when the 5th year option decision came and disappeared like Gone With The Wind...
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Declining a QB's fifth year option in the NFL means he's almost certainly gone next March. I believe I read no other QB in his situation returned to the team.
There has been no other QB in his situation. It is unique. New Head Coach, new GM, and he ended the previous season on IR (to go along with missing games to injury his first two seasons). The whole "declining the 5th year option means he's a goner" argument is a red herring. All it means is that management isn't convinced he's the answer. It doesn't mean management is convinced that he isn't.
You can stand on that tiny postage stamp, the odds are stacked against Jones, and it's ok to fail and move on. Just don't make the mistake of hanging on.
Personally, I don't think he's the problem. It's hard to be convinced he's the solution, either, but no one (I trust) really knows. The fans and the media talking heads don't know. Guys like Daboll and Kafka know, but you're not gonna get a straight answer from them.
As I write this, I'm sitting here watching Tua vs. Burrow, and the thing that strikes me most is that they BOTH have TIME TO THROW, and TALENT to throw to.
Jones has neither.
When Tua went out how did Miami offense look with Bridgewater? Couldn't move the ball that well right? Even with all that talent around him. Because the talent of the QB matters too. Bridgewater looked like Jones.
Of course QB talent matters. But the protection and WR situation in Miami is much better than anything Jones has seen since being in NY. Maybe Jones would do significantly better in the Miami offense than Bridgewater. Maybe not.
Eventually, the Giants or, more likely some other team is going to surround Jones with more protection and better talent. And he'll either end up a decent starter, or a career backup. The problem (still) is no one knows which, because sadly, the lack of protection and weapons are still limiting factors.
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and at least half the Giants fans do not believe in Jones.
Personally, I don't think he's the problem. It's hard to be convinced he's the solution, either, but no one (I trust) really knows. The fans and the media talking heads don't know. Guys like Daboll and Kafka know, but you're not gonna get a straight answer from them.
As I write this, I'm sitting here watching Tua vs. Burrow, and the thing that strikes me most is that they BOTH have TIME TO THROW, and TALENT to throw to.
Jones has neither.
When Tua went out how did Miami offense look with Bridgewater? Couldn't move the ball that well right? Even with all that talent around him. Because the talent of the QB matters too. Bridgewater looked like Jones.
The fact you are missing is - the talent bridgewater had was SIGNIFICANTLY better than Jones has EVER had.
That’s what the Jones haters like you have failed to understand for the last 4 years.
🤷🏻♂️
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In comment 15838244 David B. said:
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and at least half the Giants fans do not believe in Jones.
Personally, I don't think he's the problem. It's hard to be convinced he's the solution, either, but no one (I trust) really knows. The fans and the media talking heads don't know. Guys like Daboll and Kafka know, but you're not gonna get a straight answer from them.
As I write this, I'm sitting here watching Tua vs. Burrow, and the thing that strikes me most is that they BOTH have TIME TO THROW, and TALENT to throw to.
Jones has neither.
When Tua went out how did Miami offense look with Bridgewater? Couldn't move the ball that well right? Even with all that talent around him. Because the talent of the QB matters too. Bridgewater looked like Jones.
The fact you are missing is - the talent bridgewater had was SIGNIFICANTLY better than Jones has EVER had.
That’s what the Jones haters like you have failed to understand for the last 4 years.
🤷🏻♂️
I'm not a hater. Are you an adult or a child? Just because Jones played with other bad players doesn't mean he isn't bad too. You guys think he is capable of a level he has never shown. You can't just assume he is going to be a 4800-35-10 guy just because you add more talent. Most likely he is another Bridgewater.
As I said above:
Eventually, the Giants or, more likely some other team is going to surround Jones with more protection and better talent. And he'll either end up a decent starter, or a career backup. The problem (still) is no one knows which, because sadly, the lack of protection and weapons are still limiting factors.