Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Francisco Alvarez is being called up by the Mets with a chance to gain DH at-bats, especially vs. lefties, for the playoffs.
looking to have another Vientos thread but I was told that Showalter isn't enamored with Vientos (at least right now) and that his AB vs. Bleier was "concerning" for 2022's run.
that was the folly of their earlier decision to not give him playing (or any young guy) time earlier when they had it.
it took austin riley like 2 years to make good swing decisions. we talked about bohm a few months ago. last year gimenez and roasario were up and down this year they arent. that's usually the norm with most prospects. instant impact is possible but rare. and id think much harder when not playing everyday.
they didnt put any of baty, vientos, or alvarez in a fair position to help this year. and as it turned out they did a horrible job evaluating the veteran rhh they traded for and gave 74 pas over them. after giving dom/jdd like 300.
but hopefully alvarez is the instant impact.
100% - It was handled badly and now we're scrambling - sounds like Marte's not coming back and we need a RH bat (a RF would be nice too but I dont know if there's a glove down there Marte has a gold one)
Maybe we DO catch lightning and Alvarez just bursts out of the chute, but I wouldnt want to bet the Braves series on it - let alone a playoff series.
RE: if it's marte im surprised they'd have allowed beats to go to print
In the "old" days injured pitchers had to replace pitchers, and position players had to replace position players. That is no longer the case. Alvarez can replace an injured pitcher OR position player #Mets
RE: RE: if it's marte im surprised they'd have allowed beats to go to print
with the stories last week where he was saying he hoped to be back for atlanta series. you would think theyd have known by then if he was shut down.
Buck pretty much closed the door on Marte being back this weekend (or even giving a timeline) unless it was absolute BS.
that was in the last few days but last week i think ragazzo had an article saying he was hoping to get back for atlanta. going from that to not on playoff roster would suck.
their handling of the young guys this year is imo their biggest misstep.
Quote:
Tim Britton @TimBritton
Eight days ago, the Mets weren't considering a promotion for Francisco Álvarez. Now he's coming up for the club's biggest series in years:
in the last 7 days vientos is 3/10 with a 2b, a homer, 3 walks, and just 2 ks. obviously it's a farcical subsample of an already SSS of 28 total at bats, but that's .300/.462/.700 for a 1.162 OPS.
obviously im not arguing a ridiculously small sample size should have won anyone anything, just pointing out that in the same period of time the organization apparently did a 360 on Alvarez and went from not considering him to putting him in a really tough spot.
in the previous series vs bad teams you could have probably risked him catching a few games just to get more at bats. against atlanta you can't really do that and if the last series is do or die you certainly cant do that.
and all of it goes back to not giving vientos time in june july. even if all they found out was that he wasn't the guy, then they would have likely been quicker to promote baty and alvarez down the stretch.
As recently as a week ago, the team was not considering Álvarez for a promotion, according to a source at that time.
Álvarez, who has to be added to the 40-man roster, is still eligible for the postseason. He figures to have a chance to beat out Ruf and Vientos for a spot on New York’s postseason roster.
fried is the only left on the met schedule until corbin the last day of the season.
Darin Ruf and his 20 OPS+ isn't going to cut it. deGrom batting for himself tomorrow would probably give the offense a higher chance of success than Ruf.
looking to have another Vientos thread but I was told that Showalter isn't enamored with Vientos (at least right now) and that his AB vs. Bleier was "concerning" for 2022's run.
Wait what - they are basing this on ONE at bat that was “concerning”?
As Eric in li a pointed out, his recent SSS (out of an already SSS) has was pretty good.
Weird decision. Not that I’m against the alverez call up - in fact it should have happened a while ago - but just weird to base it on one AB by vientos
RE: this is the quote and link to britton's article
As recently as a week ago, the team was not considering Álvarez for a promotion, according to a source at that time.
Álvarez, who has to be added to the 40-man roster, is still eligible for the postseason. He figures to have a chance to beat out Ruf and Vientos for a spot on New York’s postseason roster.
fried is the only left on the met schedule until corbin the last day of the season.
fried is also an all star with a 2.5 era and 1.02 whip. So if he goes 1/3 does that win a spot? or 0/3 but with good at bats? Mets call up top prospect Francisco Álvarez ahead of postseason - ( New Window )
It’s almost like they want to see alverez to fail - he’s facing one of the best in the NL this year.
looking to have another Vientos thread but I was told that Showalter isn't enamored with Vientos (at least right now) and that his AB vs. Bleier was "concerning" for 2022's run.
So one AB by vientos is concerning, but Ruf is allowed to get 75+ AB’s?
Kyle is the one who pushed the Ruf trade and maybe the McCann trade.
So Vientos and Alvarez never got a chance. Look at the Braves with Strider, Harris and Grissom. Completely different approach and Strider sucked in AA last year.
Think of all the excuses made to explain Alvarez not getting promoted:
Doesn't know how to call a game (Irrelevant with a veteran pitching staff like Mets have)
Can't equal McCannon throwing runners out. Well actually he can.
Can't frame pitches. Actually framed pitchers better than anyone in the Eastern League.
Ditto with Vientos. You can see him getting better with ML pitching. If they called him up a month earlier, he would likely be hitting way better. And certainly better than Ruf.
I think Sandy realized Cohen needed him for PR purposes and forced his son upon the organization. Cohen put up with it for a year and then canned Sandy. Don't be surprised when Kyle gets axed after the postseason
For all the blather about Vientos not being ready, Vientos at least makes loud contact. Ruf is a complete blackhole.
Remember that big, clutch homerun that Ruf hit for the Mets, though? Yeah, neither do I bc it didn't happen.
Yes, I'd rather see Vientos AND Alvarez as the RH DH than see Ruf take one more PA.
But the most fun scenario I have...
Say Mets take at least 2 of 3 from the Braves this weekend...that means they clinch the division unless they get swept by the worst team in baseball and Atlanta sweeps Miami, 1 of which will be against Alcantara.
Would love to see in this scenario Alvarez catch a couple of games with the Nats, with both Vientos and Alvarez in the lineup against Corbin on the final day of the season.
I'd ask would you rather see more Ruf? BC at this point, why? Just give those ABs to the young guys. They'll fail or they won't but at least they have upside.
likely he struggles like the other RH DHs, but a decent chance they catch lightning in a bottle and Alvarez is one of those prospects that doesn’t have a hard time adjusting to MLB pitching
The guy that traded for him and Buck. Not a single other soul understood the amount of assets we gave up for him at the time of the trade.
J.D. Davis, Szapucki, and two A ball pitchers. Sunk costs at this point.
But I do agree with the notion that what I mentioned is unlikely to happen as Buck generally favors veterans. I don't know how much leash you give him. Cut bait. Sometimes you miss.
The guy that traded for him and Buck. Not a single other soul understood the amount of assets we gave up for him at the time of the trade.
Well.. Buck has been giving Vientos the chances over Ruf lately... so if Dan is correct and Buck isn't enamored with Vientos, then it seems he is also very very down on Ruf right now.
Which is probbaly why Alvarez is getting a shot
RE: for all the gripes about met processes that break down
their handling of the young guys this year is imo their biggest misstep.
Quote:
Tim Britton @TimBritton
Eight days ago, the Mets weren't considering a promotion for Francisco Álvarez. Now he's coming up for the club's biggest series in years:
in the last 7 days vientos is 3/10 with a 2b, a homer, 3 walks, and just 2 ks. obviously it's a farcical subsample of an already SSS of 28 total at bats, but that's .300/.462/.700 for a 1.162 OPS.
obviously im not arguing a ridiculously small sample size should have won anyone anything, just pointing out that in the same period of time the organization apparently did a 360 on Alvarez and went from not considering him to putting him in a really tough spot.
in the previous series vs bad teams you could have probably risked him catching a few games just to get more at bats. against atlanta you can't really do that and if the last series is do or die you certainly cant do that.
and all of it goes back to not giving vientos time in june july. even if all they found out was that he wasn't the guy, then they would have likely been quicker to promote baty and alvarez down the stretch.
It's funny because I actually think Vientos has looked the part lately has been making some good decisions with the bat. He has been looking for a pitch to drive instead of swinging at everything. We all know it takes him a little time to get going at every level which is why he should have been up before the deadline before we needed to give up assets for someone like Ruf. As for Alvarez he has been hot at AAA so hope that continues but throwing him into the fire with 6 games could be a questionable decision.
This FO seems to change their mind on a whim when I thought we'd be getting more thought out decisions.
Kyle is the one who pushed the Ruf trade and maybe the McCann trade.
So Vientos and Alvarez never got a chance. Look at the Braves with Strider, Harris and Grissom. Completely different approach and Strider sucked in AA last year.
Think of all the excuses made to explain Alvarez not getting promoted:
Doesn't know how to call a game (Irrelevant with a veteran pitching staff like Mets have)
Can't equal McCannon throwing runners out. Well actually he can.
Can't frame pitches. Actually framed pitchers better than anyone in the Eastern League.
Ditto with Vientos. You can see him getting better with ML pitching. If they called him up a month earlier, he would likely be hitting way better. And certainly better than Ruf.
I think Sandy realized Cohen needed him for PR purposes and forced his son upon the organization. Cohen put up with it for a year and then canned Sandy. Don't be surprised when Kyle gets axed after the postseason
i think you're referencing alderson's son bryn, and he's been in the org for more than 10 years (including during BVW's time when he remained and was promoted to director of pro scouting).
tying him specifically to the Ruf trade or Mccann signing seems random unless you've seen some credible reporting somewhere. re McCann it's well established they wanted JTR more but he wasn't willing to sign early so they took the 2nd best catcher (they signed that deal right as they hired porter). in fact there was more reporting and quotes straight from eppler tying him and levin to the marte/canha/escobar signings than anything else since that was eppler's first week on the job. i think sandy had actually flown out and talked to canha in person bc they had a relationship from oak.
the deadline seemed very Eppler/analytics driven to me and generally speaking i think the GM owns the final say on roster moves in a functional organization.
It's funny because I actually think Vientos has looked the part lately has been making some good decisions with the bat. He has been looking for a pitch to drive instead of swinging at everything. We all know it takes him a little time to get going at every level which is why he should have been up before the deadline before we needed to give up assets for someone like Ruf. As for Alvarez he has been hot at AAA so hope that continues but throwing him into the fire with 6 games could be a questionable decision.
This FO seems to change their mind on a whim when I thought we'd be getting more thought out decisions.
i agree. the other night he did a good job working counts and i believe came back from an 0-2 count to work a walk early in the game when the rest of the lineup was still hitless.
the bleier at bat wasn't great but he saw 6 pitches and bleier got a few borderline strike calls. we've seen plenty of mets take strike 3 down the middle in the last few weeks and that wasn't one of those at bats. in the prior 2 at bats bleier got mcneil to pop up and escobar on an IF single so it's not like he was throwing meatballs.
if set as an over/under before his call up that he'd have a 15% walk rate and a 30% k rate im pretty sure anyone would have taken the wrong side of those 2 rates as they are basically the same or better than what he'd been doing in AAA. same with his average exit velo of 92.4 mph which is highest on the team by more than 1 mph (sss).
his and baty's call ups have both gone very similarly - both had an adjustment period, both flashed legitimate pop, and despite numbers that didn't look great at face value both still produced more homers/xbh than ruf in SSS.
i would expect the same trend to follow with alvarez except he's got very little runway to do it.
Kyle is the one who pushed the Ruf trade and maybe the McCann trade.
So Vientos and Alvarez never got a chance. Look at the Braves with Strider, Harris and Grissom. Completely different approach and Strider sucked in AA last year.
Think of all the excuses made to explain Alvarez not getting promoted:
Doesn't know how to call a game (Irrelevant with a veteran pitching staff like Mets have)
Can't equal McCannon throwing runners out. Well actually he can.
Can't frame pitches. Actually framed pitchers better than anyone in the Eastern League.
Ditto with Vientos. You can see him getting better with ML pitching. If they called him up a month earlier, he would likely be hitting way better. And certainly better than Ruf.
I think Sandy realized Cohen needed him for PR purposes and forced his son upon the organization. Cohen put up with it for a year and then canned Sandy. Don't be surprised when Kyle gets axed after the postseason
lol some of yall must have deep sources within the org, deeper than the beats even!
with vientos at DH. that would be the best way to get both the max at bats and put the best lineup out there. vientos has already easily outproduced the catchers even though nido did get a big hit the other night.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
RE: Anyone else have a nervous energy for tonight?
We'll know pretty early on if Jake has bounced back.
Yes and no. This is not a must win game for us. If we DO win this game it makes EVERYTHING a lot easier.
So I'm not anxious about the game, but if Jake goes out and gives up a crooked number in 2 or 3 innings our postseason will not go far.
Course if he rights the ship and becomes Jacob deGrom tonight its champagne all around :)
It's funny because I actually think Vientos has looked the part lately has been making some good decisions with the bat. He has been looking for a pitch to drive instead of swinging at everything. We all know it takes him a little time to get going at every level which is why he should have been up before the deadline before we needed to give up assets for someone like Ruf. As for Alvarez he has been hot at AAA so hope that continues but throwing him into the fire with 6 games could be a questionable decision.
This FO seems to change their mind on a whim when I thought we'd be getting more thought out decisions.
The Ruf trade was a desperation move to try and compensate for the Mets front office completely misjudging the deadline trade market.
Zaide realized the Mets were up a tree and he basically robbed them in broad daylight.
The Mets then compounded the error by giving Ruf way too many chances in order to justify the trade.
So, basically the moves were dictated by office politics rather than the game on the field. Mets in effect have two GMs with Sandy and Epp and then one of the most strong willed managers you will ever see. Then the complicating factor of Kyle Alderson. Too many bulls in this China Shop.
RE: i wonder if they plan to let alvarez start at C tonight
with vientos at DH. that would be the best way to get both the max at bats and put the best lineup out there. vientos has already easily outproduced the catchers even though nido did get a big hit the other night.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
That would be bold... I follow your logic, but I'd be surprised.
If they thought he was ready to catch in MLB games, then he should have been up long ago
RE: i wonder if they plan to let alvarez start at C tonight
with vientos at DH. that would be the best way to get both the max at bats and put the best lineup out there. vientos has already easily outproduced the catchers even though nido did get a big hit the other night.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
I think there is zero chance they have him make his first start in a game of this magnitude. I'd honestly be a little surprised if they even used him as DH in this series. Maybe a PH appearance, and a start v the Nats if the division is in hand.
With an expanded roster, not having a 3rd catcher is foolish, IMO, especially when the 2 up in NY are offensively challenged.
RE: RE: i wonder if they plan to let alvarez start at C tonight
with vientos at DH. that would be the best way to get both the max at bats and put the best lineup out there. vientos has already easily outproduced the catchers even though nido did get a big hit the other night.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
That would be bold... I follow your logic, but I'd be surprised.
If they thought he was ready to catch in MLB games, then he should have been up long ago
he may have if he didn't have the injury. remember it was only like 2-3 weeks ago where it looked like he was going to get shut down for the year.
with vientos at DH. that would be the best way to get both the max at bats and put the best lineup out there. vientos has already easily outproduced the catchers even though nido did get a big hit the other night.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
Considering the magnitude of this game and how deGrom struggled his last start, I highly doubt Buck would start Alvarez at C tonight.
It also seems that Buck would ask deGrom his opinion and my guess is Jake wouldn't want to have to deal with that added stress (of an inexperienced C) and Nido's been hitting a little lately.
to me it's just up to JDG since he's thrown to all these guys
i just don't know how he'd answer that. if he says it doesnt matter id be tempted to catch alvarez just because that probably gets the 2 more dangerous bats in the lineup.
RE: to me it's just up to JDG since he's thrown to all these guys
i just don't know how he'd answer that. if he says it doesnt matter id be tempted to catch alvarez just because that probably gets the 2 more dangerous bats in the lineup.
I agree it might be up to deGrom. Maybe he feels comfortable with Alvarez and likes the idea of his bat in the lineup (considering the Mets frequent woes scoring for Jake). I guess we'll see pretty soon.
How awesome would it be if the Mets take games 1 and 2.
RE: to me it's just up to JDG since he's thrown to all these guys
i just don't know how he'd answer that. if he says it doesnt matter id be tempted to catch alvarez just because that probably gets the 2 more dangerous bats in the lineup.
Buck isn't going to allow Jake to decide that Alvarez will start, come on. And even if he did, Jake is going with a vet in a big game like this.
Can you imagine if Alvarez started and a passed ball or error cost the Mets the game? They aren't going to put him in such a highly leveraged situation this early.
coach and player picked braves to win, scout picked mets, kind of. all of them liked moving JDG up and all think the mets are susceptible to lefties and may have blown the deadline not adding more power. this is going to be a fun series to get things prepped for the playoffs.
Quote:
The scout picked the Mets … he thinks.
“It’s deGrom, Scherzer — who may pitch all nine if they let him, 10 if it goes to extras, because he’s a dog — and Bassitt with Díaz at the back end and Buck managing as if it’s the playoffs,” the scout said. “I am not going to overthink it, other than to say I do think the Braves get at least one win. With the way Michael Harris has deepened that lineup, there’s just too many guys to keep down. Hmm. OK. Maybe it’s the Braves? I really like the Harris kid, man. And then there’s Ronald Acuña, Olson, who we talked about, and, by the way, the best player on the field might be Austin Riley.”
Ruf out is good news. My fingers are crossed for Alvarez but this feels like an almost impossible situation. Fried is fried and even when he moved up to AAA he struggled for a little bit. obviously hope for the best but it's pretty insane the mets are in a position now where their biggest weakness may be not having a right handed hitter capable of DH'ing.
Ruf out is good news. My fingers are crossed for Alvarez but this feels like an almost impossible situation. Fried is fried and even when he moved up to AAA he struggled for a little bit. obviously hope for the best but it's pretty insane the mets are in a position now where their biggest weakness may be not having a right handed hitter capable of DH'ing.
Quote:
looking to have another Vientos thread but I was told that Showalter isn't enamored with Vientos (at least right now) and that his AB vs. Bleier was "concerning" for 2022's run.
that was the folly of their earlier decision to not give him playing (or any young guy) time earlier when they had it.
it took austin riley like 2 years to make good swing decisions. we talked about bohm a few months ago. last year gimenez and roasario were up and down this year they arent. that's usually the norm with most prospects. instant impact is possible but rare. and id think much harder when not playing everyday.
they didnt put any of baty, vientos, or alvarez in a fair position to help this year. and as it turned out they did a horrible job evaluating the veteran rhh they traded for and gave 74 pas over them. after giving dom/jdd like 300.
but hopefully alvarez is the instant impact.
Maybe we DO catch lightning and Alvarez just bursts out of the chute, but I wouldnt want to bet the Braves series on it - let alone a playoff series.
Buck pretty much closed the door on Marte being back this weekend (or even giving a timeline) unless it was absolute BS.
Quote:
with the stories last week where he was saying he hoped to be back for atlanta series. you would think theyd have known by then if he was shut down.
Buck pretty much closed the door on Marte being back this weekend (or even giving a timeline) unless it was absolute BS.
that was in the last few days but last week i think ragazzo had an article saying he was hoping to get back for atlanta. going from that to not on playoff roster would suck.
Eight days ago, the Mets weren't considering a promotion for Francisco Álvarez. Now he's coming up for the club's biggest series in years:
in the last 7 days vientos is 3/10 with a 2b, a homer, 3 walks, and just 2 ks. obviously it's a farcical subsample of an already SSS of 28 total at bats, but that's .300/.462/.700 for a 1.162 OPS.
obviously im not arguing a ridiculously small sample size should have won anyone anything, just pointing out that in the same period of time the organization apparently did a 360 on Alvarez and went from not considering him to putting him in a really tough spot.
in the previous series vs bad teams you could have probably risked him catching a few games just to get more at bats. against atlanta you can't really do that and if the last series is do or die you certainly cant do that.
and all of it goes back to not giving vientos time in june july. even if all they found out was that he wasn't the guy, then they would have likely been quicker to promote baty and alvarez down the stretch.
Álvarez, who has to be added to the 40-man roster, is still eligible for the postseason. He figures to have a chance to beat out Ruf and Vientos for a spot on New York’s postseason roster.
fried is the only left on the met schedule until corbin the last day of the season.
fried is also an all star with a 2.5 era and 1.02 whip. So if he goes 1/3 does that win a spot? or 0/3 but with good at bats?
Mets call up top prospect Francisco Álvarez ahead of postseason - ( New Window )
Biggest game of the year tomorrow, deGrom vs Fried again, and now Alvarez
Thank God it isnt an apple tv game!!! Especially since we dont have GKR for the rest of the series
Wait what - they are basing this on ONE at bat that was “concerning”?
As Eric in li a pointed out, his recent SSS (out of an already SSS) has was pretty good.
Weird decision. Not that I’m against the alverez call up - in fact it should have happened a while ago - but just weird to base it on one AB by vientos
Quote:
As recently as a week ago, the team was not considering Álvarez for a promotion, according to a source at that time.
Álvarez, who has to be added to the 40-man roster, is still eligible for the postseason. He figures to have a chance to beat out Ruf and Vientos for a spot on New York’s postseason roster.
fried is the only left on the met schedule until corbin the last day of the season.
fried is also an all star with a 2.5 era and 1.02 whip. So if he goes 1/3 does that win a spot? or 0/3 but with good at bats? Mets call up top prospect Francisco Álvarez ahead of postseason - ( New Window )
It’s almost like they want to see alverez to fail - he’s facing one of the best in the NL this year.
“See, we told you he wasn’t ready”…
So one AB by vientos is concerning, but Ruf is allowed to get 75+ AB’s?
Better late than never, i suppose (re Ruf)
Quote:
.
Ruf has been unplayable bad and I was told off the record they don't think Vientos has looked MLB-ready in terms of his swing decisions
But there’s no agreed-upon definition of “off the record.”
So Vientos and Alvarez never got a chance. Look at the Braves with Strider, Harris and Grissom. Completely different approach and Strider sucked in AA last year.
Think of all the excuses made to explain Alvarez not getting promoted:
Doesn't know how to call a game (Irrelevant with a veteran pitching staff like Mets have)
Can't equal McCannon throwing runners out. Well actually he can.
Can't frame pitches. Actually framed pitchers better than anyone in the Eastern League.
Ditto with Vientos. You can see him getting better with ML pitching. If they called him up a month earlier, he would likely be hitting way better. And certainly better than Ruf.
I think Sandy realized Cohen needed him for PR purposes and forced his son upon the organization. Cohen put up with it for a year and then canned Sandy. Don't be surprised when Kyle gets axed after the postseason
Quote:
In comment 15838392 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.
Ruf has been unplayable bad and I was told off the record they don't think Vientos has looked MLB-ready in terms of his swing decisions
if you’re repeating it here, it wasn’t exactly off the record. More like “not for attribution” or “on background.”
But there’s no agreed-upon definition of “off the record.”
You win:) Not for attribution.
For all the blather about Vientos not being ready, Vientos at least makes loud contact. Ruf is a complete blackhole.
Remember that big, clutch homerun that Ruf hit for the Mets, though? Yeah, neither do I bc it didn't happen.
Yes, I'd rather see Vientos AND Alvarez as the RH DH than see Ruf take one more PA.
But the most fun scenario I have...
Say Mets take at least 2 of 3 from the Braves this weekend...that means they clinch the division unless they get swept by the worst team in baseball and Atlanta sweeps Miami, 1 of which will be against Alcantara.
Would love to see in this scenario Alvarez catch a couple of games with the Nats, with both Vientos and Alvarez in the lineup against Corbin on the final day of the season.
J.D. Davis, Szapucki, and two A ball pitchers. Sunk costs at this point.
But I do agree with the notion that what I mentioned is unlikely to happen as Buck generally favors veterans. I don't know how much leash you give him. Cut bait. Sometimes you miss.
Well.. Buck has been giving Vientos the chances over Ruf lately... so if Dan is correct and Buck isn't enamored with Vientos, then it seems he is also very very down on Ruf right now.
Which is probbaly why Alvarez is getting a shot
Quote:
Tim Britton @TimBritton
Eight days ago, the Mets weren't considering a promotion for Francisco Álvarez. Now he's coming up for the club's biggest series in years:
in the last 7 days vientos is 3/10 with a 2b, a homer, 3 walks, and just 2 ks. obviously it's a farcical subsample of an already SSS of 28 total at bats, but that's .300/.462/.700 for a 1.162 OPS.
obviously im not arguing a ridiculously small sample size should have won anyone anything, just pointing out that in the same period of time the organization apparently did a 360 on Alvarez and went from not considering him to putting him in a really tough spot.
in the previous series vs bad teams you could have probably risked him catching a few games just to get more at bats. against atlanta you can't really do that and if the last series is do or die you certainly cant do that.
and all of it goes back to not giving vientos time in june july. even if all they found out was that he wasn't the guy, then they would have likely been quicker to promote baty and alvarez down the stretch.
+1
This FO seems to change their mind on a whim when I thought we'd be getting more thought out decisions.
So Vientos and Alvarez never got a chance. Look at the Braves with Strider, Harris and Grissom. Completely different approach and Strider sucked in AA last year.
Think of all the excuses made to explain Alvarez not getting promoted:
Doesn't know how to call a game (Irrelevant with a veteran pitching staff like Mets have)
Can't equal McCannon throwing runners out. Well actually he can.
Can't frame pitches. Actually framed pitchers better than anyone in the Eastern League.
Ditto with Vientos. You can see him getting better with ML pitching. If they called him up a month earlier, he would likely be hitting way better. And certainly better than Ruf.
I think Sandy realized Cohen needed him for PR purposes and forced his son upon the organization. Cohen put up with it for a year and then canned Sandy. Don't be surprised when Kyle gets axed after the postseason
i think you're referencing alderson's son bryn, and he's been in the org for more than 10 years (including during BVW's time when he remained and was promoted to director of pro scouting).
tying him specifically to the Ruf trade or Mccann signing seems random unless you've seen some credible reporting somewhere. re McCann it's well established they wanted JTR more but he wasn't willing to sign early so they took the 2nd best catcher (they signed that deal right as they hired porter). in fact there was more reporting and quotes straight from eppler tying him and levin to the marte/canha/escobar signings than anything else since that was eppler's first week on the job. i think sandy had actually flown out and talked to canha in person bc they had a relationship from oak.
the deadline seemed very Eppler/analytics driven to me and generally speaking i think the GM owns the final say on roster moves in a functional organization.
This FO seems to change their mind on a whim when I thought we'd be getting more thought out decisions.
i agree. the other night he did a good job working counts and i believe came back from an 0-2 count to work a walk early in the game when the rest of the lineup was still hitless.
the bleier at bat wasn't great but he saw 6 pitches and bleier got a few borderline strike calls. we've seen plenty of mets take strike 3 down the middle in the last few weeks and that wasn't one of those at bats. in the prior 2 at bats bleier got mcneil to pop up and escobar on an IF single so it's not like he was throwing meatballs.
if set as an over/under before his call up that he'd have a 15% walk rate and a 30% k rate im pretty sure anyone would have taken the wrong side of those 2 rates as they are basically the same or better than what he'd been doing in AAA. same with his average exit velo of 92.4 mph which is highest on the team by more than 1 mph (sss).
his and baty's call ups have both gone very similarly - both had an adjustment period, both flashed legitimate pop, and despite numbers that didn't look great at face value both still produced more homers/xbh than ruf in SSS.
i would expect the same trend to follow with alvarez except he's got very little runway to do it.
So Vientos and Alvarez never got a chance. Look at the Braves with Strider, Harris and Grissom. Completely different approach and Strider sucked in AA last year.
Think of all the excuses made to explain Alvarez not getting promoted:
Doesn't know how to call a game (Irrelevant with a veteran pitching staff like Mets have)
Can't equal McCannon throwing runners out. Well actually he can.
Can't frame pitches. Actually framed pitchers better than anyone in the Eastern League.
Ditto with Vientos. You can see him getting better with ML pitching. If they called him up a month earlier, he would likely be hitting way better. And certainly better than Ruf.
I think Sandy realized Cohen needed him for PR purposes and forced his son upon the organization. Cohen put up with it for a year and then canned Sandy. Don't be surprised when Kyle gets axed after the postseason
lol some of yall must have deep sources within the org, deeper than the beats even!
The Sandy fanfic always cracks me up.
We'll know pretty early on if Jake has bounced back.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
We'll know pretty early on if Jake has bounced back.
So I'm not anxious about the game, but if Jake goes out and gives up a crooked number in 2 or 3 innings our postseason will not go far.
Course if he rights the ship and becomes Jacob deGrom tonight its champagne all around :)
This FO seems to change their mind on a whim when I thought we'd be getting more thought out decisions.
The Ruf trade was a desperation move to try and compensate for the Mets front office completely misjudging the deadline trade market.
Zaide realized the Mets were up a tree and he basically robbed them in broad daylight.
The Mets then compounded the error by giving Ruf way too many chances in order to justify the trade.
So, basically the moves were dictated by office politics rather than the game on the field. Mets in effect have two GMs with Sandy and Epp and then one of the most strong willed managers you will ever see. Then the complicating factor of Kyle Alderson. Too many bulls in this China Shop.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
That would be bold... I follow your logic, but I'd be surprised.
If they thought he was ready to catch in MLB games, then he should have been up long ago
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
I think there is zero chance they have him make his first start in a game of this magnitude. I'd honestly be a little surprised if they even used him as DH in this series. Maybe a PH appearance, and a start v the Nats if the division is in hand.
With an expanded roster, not having a 3rd catcher is foolish, IMO, especially when the 2 up in NY are offensively challenged.
Quote:
with vientos at DH. that would be the best way to get both the max at bats and put the best lineup out there. vientos has already easily outproduced the catchers even though nido did get a big hit the other night.
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
That would be bold... I follow your logic, but I'd be surprised.
If they thought he was ready to catch in MLB games, then he should have been up long ago
he may have if he didn't have the injury. remember it was only like 2-3 weeks ago where it looked like he was going to get shut down for the year.
However, it's good for him to experience the playoff-like atmosphere even if he is mostly a non-contributor.
Maybe Buck was like "shit, I don't want to end up in a big spot where I have to give McCann the AB"
So having 3rd catcher, with a big bat to boot, helps that
he caught JDG i think twice in the minors and we've seen the other catchers play less than stellar defense recently.
Considering the magnitude of this game and how deGrom struggled his last start, I highly doubt Buck would start Alvarez at C tonight.
It also seems that Buck would ask deGrom his opinion and my guess is Jake wouldn't want to have to deal with that added stress (of an inexperienced C) and Nido's been hitting a little lately.
I agree it might be up to deGrom. Maybe he feels comfortable with Alvarez and likes the idea of his bat in the lineup (considering the Mets frequent woes scoring for Jake). I guess we'll see pretty soon.
How awesome would it be if the Mets take games 1 and 2.
Buck isn't going to allow Jake to decide that Alvarez will start, come on. And even if he did, Jake is going with a vet in a big game like this.
Can you imagine if Alvarez started and a passed ball or error cost the Mets the game? They aren't going to put him in such a highly leveraged situation this early.
I got to break open the good bottle for this one! Maybe even a charcuterie tray
Let's go!!
Welcome to the bigs, kid! Nothing like getting thrown into the fire....
I hope Ruf stays on the injured list for the rest of the season (however far into October it goes)
Of course he is, that was the point of calling him up yesterday - so he can face the lefty tonight
He wasnt going to catch tonight
“It’s deGrom, Scherzer — who may pitch all nine if they let him, 10 if it goes to extras, because he’s a dog — and Bassitt with Díaz at the back end and Buck managing as if it’s the playoffs,” the scout said. “I am not going to overthink it, other than to say I do think the Braves get at least one win. With the way Michael Harris has deepened that lineup, there’s just too many guys to keep down. Hmm. OK. Maybe it’s the Braves? I really like the Harris kid, man. And then there’s Ronald Acuña, Olson, who we talked about, and, by the way, the best player on the field might be Austin Riley.”
A coach, a scout and a player pick Mets-Braves series winner - ( New Window )
Ruf out is good news. My fingers are crossed for Alvarez but this feels like an almost impossible situation. Fried is fried and even when he moved up to AAA he struggled for a little bit. obviously hope for the best but it's pretty insane the mets are in a position now where their biggest weakness may be not having a right handed hitter capable of DH'ing.
Quote:
to make room for Alvarez.
Ruf out is good news. My fingers are crossed for Alvarez but this feels like an almost impossible situation. Fried is fried and even when he moved up to AAA he struggled for a little bit. obviously hope for the best but it's pretty insane the mets are in a position now where their biggest weakness may be not having a right handed hitter capable of DH'ing.
Per the above, here's the link below:
Ruf on IL - ( New Window )