And nothing more serious Thursday night. Having coached for decades and having seen many very serious concussions (one with that scary contortion), last night tells me one thing....Tua was not ready to be back after last weeks game and in fact should have never been put back in at all. NO, I am not a doctor of any sort. However seeing that scary experience again (which ended this other young man's playing career), I feel there is something VERY shady going on in Miami. Whether it is the doctor, the Dolphins or both something isn't right. You can blast my opinion if you want, because I am not a doctor, but I have seen this before.
Blame the Dolphins for the optics of it but if a doctor tells them he is clear and he shows no signs of a concussion what more do you want the dolphins to do? sit him for how long?
he wasnt in concussion protocol
Quote:
In comment 15838502 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
AFter that hit and Tua's helmet hit the turf, He got up shakily, fell to the turf once and then again. That is a full blown concussion and for that independent doctor or the Dolphins to put him back in last week and last night.......
Well that is just a crime. However, no-one forced Tua out there. He jogged out on the field last week and last night of his own free will.
It will be very interesting to see where this goes from here.
What? Are you a moron? No one forced Tua out there and he did it of his own free will? You cannot be serious. So teams should just leave concussed players to decide whether they want to play or not? Holy shit balls man.
Knock off the feigned dismay. Tua absolutely has the right to go back on the field if he is cleared to do so. If he felt the diagnosis was wrong he has the right to ask for a 2nd opinion.
The moral outrage on this place sometimes is so disingenuous.
Believe it or not, even 8n the pro sports world, there needs to be someone that is the voice of reason and responsibility. Whether or not Tua has the RIGHT to go out there and play is secondary. As a Coach, medical team and organization they should have taken the time to look into everything before putting him on the field. The Giants did the right thing with Jones last year by keeping him out....the Dolphins have not. You can blast my viewpoint all you want. Whether he is 12 or 32 makes no difference. That man should have never been on the field yesterday period
Quote:
In comment 15838513 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15838502 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
AFter that hit and Tua's helmet hit the turf, He got up shakily, fell to the turf once and then again. That is a full blown concussion and for that independent doctor or the Dolphins to put him back in last week and last night.......
Well that is just a crime. However, no-one forced Tua out there. He jogged out on the field last week and last night of his own free will.
It will be very interesting to see where this goes from here.
What? Are you a moron? No one forced Tua out there and he did it of his own free will? You cannot be serious. So teams should just leave concussed players to decide whether they want to play or not? Holy shit balls man.
Knock off the feigned dismay. Tua absolutely has the right to go back on the field if he is cleared to do so. If he felt the diagnosis was wrong he has the right to ask for a 2nd opinion.
The moral outrage on this place sometimes is so disingenuous.
Believe it or not, even 8n the pro sports world, there needs to be someone that is the voice of reason and responsibility. Whether or not Tua has the RIGHT to go out there and play is secondary. As a Coach, medical team and organization they should have taken the time to look into everything before putting him on the field. The Giants did the right thing with Jones last year by keeping him out....the Dolphins have not. You can blast my viewpoint all you want. Whether he is 12 or 32 makes no difference. That man should have never been on the field yesterday period
Jones played the very next week...
and again the Dolphins are not the ones who clear him
Quote:
I am on a similar thought process. Maybe the league needs to step in at least for these Thursday's games. If you go under the concussion protocol the previous Sunday you have to sit out a Thursday game with such a short turnaround.
he wasnt in concussion protocol
Are you saying he was never tested at all? Or that they looked at him for a concussion and said he did not have one?
Quote:
In comment 15838537 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I am on a similar thought process. Maybe the league needs to step in at least for these Thursday's games. If you go under the concussion protocol the previous Sunday you have to sit out a Thursday game with such a short turnaround.
he wasnt in concussion protocol
Are you saying he was never tested at all? Or that they looked at him for a concussion and said he did not have one?
Neurologist looked at him and cleared him to return last week, which he did and played the entire 2nd half
Quote:
In comment 15838502 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
AFter that hit and Tua's helmet hit the turf, He got up shakily, fell to the turf once and then again. That is a full blown concussion and for that independent doctor or the Dolphins to put him back in last week and last night.......
Well that is just a crime. However, no-one forced Tua out there. He jogged out on the field last week and last night of his own free will.
It will be very interesting to see where this goes from here.
What? Are you a moron? No one forced Tua out there and he did it of his own free will? You cannot be serious. So teams should just leave concussed players to decide whether they want to play or not? Holy shit balls man.
Knock off the feigned dismay. Tua absolutely has the right to go back on the field if he is cleared to do so. If he felt the diagnosis was wrong he has the right to ask for a 2nd opinion.
The moral outrage on this place sometimes is so disingenuous.
This is absolute bullshit. Chris Canty and Rob Ninkovich are talking about this exact thing right now. The fucking protocols are in place to protect players from themselves. Of course Tua is going to want to go back into the game. It’s up to the damn team and league to tell him hell no. Yes, Tua has “the right” to go back in the game. And he’s going to if they give him that chance. You don’t leave it up to the damn player to decide whether they think the diagnosis is wrong. Particularly if they are concussed. They obviously aren’t thinking clearly.
What is wrong with you idiots? “Hey, blame Tua! He’s the one that went back in!”. Unbelievable
That said, if he managed to fool the doc and the team (and they were competently judging his condition), can't blame them. Doesn't mean he was in full mental capacity, though.
Several days later, cleared to play, rejoining the team is his call.
and i get the anger and you can argue even if cleared he shouldnt have gone back in, i get that, i jist think all the hatred the Dolphins are getting is unwarranted
Quote:
In comment 15838538 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15838537 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I am on a similar thought process. Maybe the league needs to step in at least for these Thursday's games. If you go under the concussion protocol the previous Sunday you have to sit out a Thursday game with such a short turnaround.
he wasnt in concussion protocol
Are you saying he was never tested at all? Or that they looked at him for a concussion and said he did not have one?
Neurologist looked at him and cleared him to return last week, which he did and played the entire 2nd half
You watch that play last week and tell me that’s a back injury. Bullshit. The dude got up shaking his head several times, then wobbled and fell down. Then got back up and was shaking and grabbing his head some more. Back injury my ass. Whoever made that decision has some answers to provide
Quote:
In comment 15838542 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 15838538 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15838537 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I am on a similar thought process. Maybe the league needs to step in at least for these Thursday's games. If you go under the concussion protocol the previous Sunday you have to sit out a Thursday game with such a short turnaround.
he wasnt in concussion protocol
Are you saying he was never tested at all? Or that they looked at him for a concussion and said he did not have one?
Neurologist looked at him and cleared him to return last week, which he did and played the entire 2nd half
You watch that play last week and tell me that’s a back injury. Bullshit. The dude got up shaking his head several times, then wobbled and fell down. Then got back up and was shaking and grabbing his head some more. Back injury my ass. Whoever made that decision has some answers to provide
So you are saying the neurologist who looked at him and cleared him made the mistake? i mean its hard to argue against that, doctors make mostakes all the time, but again thats not on the dolphins..
Believe it or not, even 8n the pro sports world, there needs to be someone that is the voice of reason and responsibility. Whether or not Tua has the RIGHT to go out there and play is secondary. As a Coach, medical team and organization they should have taken the time to look into everything before putting him on the field. The Giants did the right thing with Jones last year by keeping him out....the Dolphins have not. You can blast my viewpoint all you want. Whether he is 12 or 32 makes no difference. That man should have never been on the field yesterday period
That is your opinion and only an opinion(as is mine). There are protocols in place to prevent players being sent on the field when they are not ready. Whether you agree or not is not relevant. The NFLPA and NFL agreed to these on outside advice.
I do not know, and neither do you, whether he had a concussion last week or not. The MDs said he did not. I am not a doctor and I do not believe you are either, and even if you were, you ethically could not diagnose without having physically examined and evaluated his condition.
And if you do not believe there is a difference between the caring of a child and an adult I do not know what to say. An adult is responsible for himself.
If it is found that the Dolphins or another party bypassed the protocols, then do what is necessary to punish the offender. THe NFLPA had raised complaints during the week.
In that situation, the reviewers, which means both the team doctor AND the unaffiliated consultant, are not supposed to clear him based on his answers to cognitive questions.
By specific protocol rule, they have to make an affirmative determination, based on objective evidence, that the impairment manifested did not have a neurological basis.
Florio asked the NFL last Sunday to explain how that could have happened and the NFL has thus far declined to answer.
The NFLPA believes there is no good answer and the protocol was violated.
Saying that the unaffiliated consultant is "independent" is not a magic wand to resolve the issue here because the consultant is hired by the NFL, whose actual regard for player safety is highly suspect.
The Thurs night scheduling of games by the NFL is evidence of that in itself.
PFT - ( New Window )
There isn't a common sense doctor on the planet that would clear Tua to play after this episode..especially after Emily Rose symptoms.
"MORE THAN". Holy Crap
In that situation, the reviewers, which means both the team doctor AND the unaffiliated consultant, are not supposed to clear him based on his answers to cognitive questions.
By specific protocol rule, they have to make an affirmative determination, based on objective evidence, that the impairment manifested did not have a neurological basis.
Florio asked the NFL last Sunday to explain how that could have happened and the NFL has thus far declined to answer.
The NFLPA believes there is no good answer and the protocol was violated.
Saying that the unaffiliated consultant is "independent" is not a magic wand to resolve the issue here because the consultant is hired by the NFL, whose actual regard for player safety is highly suspect.
The Thurs night scheduling of games by the NFL is evidence of that in itself. PFT - ( New Window )
Thank you for posting this. I have a feeling there is going to be some bad shit coming to light soon. Even if he was "cleared" I still wouldn't have let him on that field.
Defensewins, you obviously never suffered a concussion in your life. I am speaking from experience, Last night, he had Neurological damage clear evidence when he went Emily Rose. I feel really bad for him because alot of professionals gave him bad advice.
There isn't a common sense doctor on the planet that would clear Tua to play after this episode..especially after Emily Rose symptoms.
Marty.. respectfully, I'm curious what you are basing the career ending prediction on. Do you have advanced knowledge of brain disease?
Quote:
about the NFLPAs's legal action and the basis is as I suspected: there is a specific rule that applies when a player shows objective signs of impairment, such as the wobbling we saw from Tua on Sunday.
In that situation, the reviewers, which means both the team doctor AND the unaffiliated consultant, are not supposed to clear him based on his answers to cognitive questions.
By specific protocol rule, they have to make an affirmative determination, based on objective evidence, that the impairment manifested did not have a neurological basis.
Florio asked the NFL last Sunday to explain how that could have happened and the NFL has thus far declined to answer.
The NFLPA believes there is no good answer and the protocol was violated.
Saying that the unaffiliated consultant is "independent" is not a magic wand to resolve the issue here because the consultant is hired by the NFL, whose actual regard for player safety is highly suspect.
The Thurs night scheduling of games by the NFL is evidence of that in itself. PFT - ( New Window )
Thank you for posting this. I have a feeling there is going to be some bad shit coming to light soon. Even if he was "cleared" I still wouldn't have let him on that field.
Given the short week they should've held him out.
For what it's worth, I don't think the Giants' staff would've allowed him to play.
Quote:
is over as a result of that hit last night. He went Emily Rose with his fingers in the catatonic state. This indicates he already has neurological damage. He must have had many concussions prior to this before the Sunday hit.
There isn't a common sense doctor on the planet that would clear Tua to play after this episode..especially after Emily Rose symptoms.
Marty.. respectfully, I'm curious what you are basing the career ending prediction on. Do you have advanced knowledge of brain disease?
Hello Producer, To answer your question, I am baseing this on the experiences i have had with athletes at the college Level along with my own concussions. The fencing (Emily Rose) symptons are a true indicator of neurological damage and he has to be intensely evaluated and monitored with his symptoms. I know people after emily Rose symptoms that can't watch TV anymore or maintain concentration in a simple dialog for more than 5 minutes as a result of multiple concussions and this can last for life with really intense rehab let alone playing football. It can get that bad. I hope Tua decides to stop playing for his own health.
Quote:
In comment 15838566 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
is over as a result of that hit last night. He went Emily Rose with his fingers in the catatonic state. This indicates he already has neurological damage. He must have had many concussions prior to this before the Sunday hit.
There isn't a common sense doctor on the planet that would clear Tua to play after this episode..especially after Emily Rose symptoms.
Marty.. respectfully, I'm curious what you are basing the career ending prediction on. Do you have advanced knowledge of brain disease?
Hello Producer, To answer your question, I am baseing this on the experiences i have had with athletes at the college Level along with my own concussions. The fencing (Emily Rose) symptons are a true indicator of neurological damage and he has to be intensely evaluated and monitored with his symptoms. I know people after emily Rose symptoms that can't watch TV anymore or maintain concentration in a simple dialog for more than 5 minutes as a result of multiple concussions and this can last for life with really intense rehab let alone playing football. It can get that bad. I hope Tua decides to stop playing for his own health.
I tried to google these Emily Rose symptoms but kept getting links to The Exorcist ... do you have a link I can check this out?
Quote:
In comment 15838580 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15838566 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
is over as a result of that hit last night. He went Emily Rose with his fingers in the catatonic state. This indicates he already has neurological damage. He must have had many concussions prior to this before the Sunday hit.
There isn't a common sense doctor on the planet that would clear Tua to play after this episode..especially after Emily Rose symptoms.
Marty.. respectfully, I'm curious what you are basing the career ending prediction on. Do you have advanced knowledge of brain disease?
Hello Producer, To answer your question, I am baseing this on the experiences i have had with athletes at the college Level along with my own concussions. The fencing (Emily Rose) symptons are a true indicator of neurological damage and he has to be intensely evaluated and monitored with his symptoms. I know people after emily Rose symptoms that can't watch TV anymore or maintain concentration in a simple dialog for more than 5 minutes as a result of multiple concussions and this can last for life with really intense rehab let alone playing football. It can get that bad. I hope Tua decides to stop playing for his own health.
I tried to google these Emily Rose symptoms but kept getting links to The Exorcist ... do you have a link I can check this out?
I added the link to fencing,
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Believe it or not, even 8n the pro sports world, there needs to be someone that is the voice of reason and responsibility. Whether or not Tua has the RIGHT to go out there and play is secondary. As a Coach, medical team and organization they should have taken the time to look into everything before putting him on the field. The Giants did the right thing with Jones last year by keeping him out....the Dolphins have not. You can blast my viewpoint all you want. Whether he is 12 or 32 makes no difference. That man should have never been on the field yesterday period
That is your opinion and only an opinion(as is mine). There are protocols in place to prevent players being sent on the field when they are not ready. Whether you agree or not is not relevant. The NFLPA and NFL agreed to these on outside advice.
I do not know, and neither do you, whether he had a concussion last week or not. The MDs said he did not. I am not a doctor and I do not believe you are either, and even if you were, you ethically could not diagnose without having physically examined and evaluated his condition.
And if you do not believe there is a difference between the caring of a child and an adult I do not know what to say. An adult is responsible for himself.
If it is found that the Dolphins or another party bypassed the protocols, then do what is necessary to punish the offender. THe NFLPA had raised complaints during the week.
FWIW, I had situations like this coaching high school AND college....not 12 year old kids. Every time, I didn't play them until I was comfortable doing so, even if they were cleared. I felt I had the obligation to make that decision for that players future, period. The college player was 21. Never had anyone pissed off I made that decision because people knew in the long run it was the right way to go. Sometimes you just have to make those difficult decisions.
Quote:
In comment 15838566 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
is over as a result of that hit last night. He went Emily Rose with his fingers in the catatonic state. This indicates he already has neurological damage. He must have had many concussions prior to this before the Sunday hit.
There isn't a common sense doctor on the planet that would clear Tua to play after this episode..especially after Emily Rose symptoms.
Marty.. respectfully, I'm curious what you are basing the career ending prediction on. Do you have advanced knowledge of brain disease?
Hello Producer, To answer your question, I am baseing this on the experiences i have had with athletes at the college Level along with my own concussions. The fencing (Emily Rose) symptons are a true indicator of neurological damage and he has to be intensely evaluated and monitored with his symptoms. I know people after emily Rose symptoms that can't watch TV anymore or maintain concentration in a simple dialog for more than 5 minutes as a result of multiple concussions and this can last for life with really intense rehab let alone playing football. It can get that bad. I hope Tua decides to stop playing for his own health.
Thanks for sharing your informed perspective, Marty. We all hope Tua has a speedy and complete recovery. These magnificent athletes risk so much every time they take the field.
"MORE THAN". Holy Crap
Way to chop his quote. You realize that concussions happen and while bad it isn't the end of the world, right? Would you rather a concussion or a broken neck with paralysis - pretty sure that's what he was getting at.
Quote:
In comment 15838513 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15838502 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
AFter that hit and Tua's helmet hit the turf, He got up shakily, fell to the turf once and then again. That is a full blown concussion and for that independent doctor or the Dolphins to put him back in last week and last night.......
Well that is just a crime. However, no-one forced Tua out there. He jogged out on the field last week and last night of his own free will.
It will be very interesting to see where this goes from here.
What? Are you a moron? No one forced Tua out there and he did it of his own free will? You cannot be serious. So teams should just leave concussed players to decide whether they want to play or not? Holy shit balls man.
Knock off the feigned dismay. Tua absolutely has the right to go back on the field if he is cleared to do so. If he felt the diagnosis was wrong he has the right to ask for a 2nd opinion.
The moral outrage on this place sometimes is so disingenuous.
This is absolute bullshit. Chris Canty and Rob Ninkovich are talking about this exact thing right now. The fucking protocols are in place to protect players from themselves. Of course Tua is going to want to go back into the game. It’s up to the damn team and league to tell him hell no. Yes, Tua has “the right” to go back in the game. And he’s going to if they give him that chance. You don’t leave it up to the damn player to decide whether they think the diagnosis is wrong. Particularly if they are concussed. They obviously aren’t thinking clearly.
What is wrong with you idiots? “Hey, blame Tua! He’s the one that went back in!”. Unbelievable
He has little but some responsibility. Whether you have a concussion includes you answering the doctor truthfully. If he said he had no headaches, dizziness, etc., but did, then this is partially on him too.
Quote:
He said in press conference "HE DIDN"T HAVE ANYTHING MORE THAN A CONCUSSION" <--- WTF is that!!!!
"MORE THAN". Holy Crap
Way to chop his quote. You realize that concussions happen and while bad it isn't the end of the world, right? Would you rather a concussion or a broken neck with paralysis - pretty sure that's what he was getting at.
To answer your question, If I had the choice, I would rather live with a back injury i could at least walk with.. than not being able to sustain a 5 minute conversation for the rest of my life.
And a doctor that keeps recommending that players miss games will be sure to keep his job with the NFL, right?
Remember that the League's former concussion "expert" was a guy that wasn't a neurologist (he was a rheumatologist of all things), and lied about his credentials (he got his degree in Mexico, not SUNY Stony Brook).
Do we even know who these independent doctors are?
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15838571 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
He said in press conference "HE DIDN"T HAVE ANYTHING MORE THAN A CONCUSSION" <--- WTF is that!!!!
"MORE THAN". Holy Crap
Way to chop his quote. You realize that concussions happen and while bad it isn't the end of the world, right? Would you rather a concussion or a broken neck with paralysis - pretty sure that's what he was getting at.
To answer your question, If I had the choice, I would rather live with a back injury i could at least walk with.. than not being able to sustain a 5 minute conversation for the rest of my life.
So how are NFL players that have had concussions able to talk for 5+ minutes?
If you watched McDaniel's post game (you clearly didn't) you'd see that he was distraught. Should probably get more context before blasting him.
Press Conference - ( New Window )
Quote:
Just the reaction by sports fans over it. What we witnessed with the hand spasms happens all of the time when a fighter gets knocked out in the octogon. When it happens to those athletes nobody says anything. Is it because people say the fighters assume that risk?
Defensewins, you obviously never suffered a concussion in your life. I am speaking from experience, Last night, he had Neurological damage clear evidence when he went Emily Rose. I feel really bad for him because alot of professionals gave him bad advice.
First, I had one six months ago
Second, you obviously did not even read (or likely comprehend) what I said. My entire point was simply that nobody says anything when it happens to fighters.
From the one replay I saw today it looked to me that he was slung down last night and the back of his head smashed into the turf. Looked like it damn near killed him. In the world of the NFL he's probably day to day for their next game.
My kids have been using this in High School sports for years. It was integral to determining how to help my older son know when to come back from the two concussions he sustained in soccer.
What is IMPACT - ( New Window )
1.have the player repeat different unrelated 3 nouns in a conversation
2. have the athlete then run 4 50 yard wind sprints. (most concussion symptoms show when the heart rate goes up with exercise)
3. have the player repeat the same 3 nouns spoken to him (without reminding him of the nouns prior to sprints).
4. Engage in long 10 minutes conversation and make sure player is understanding what is being said and is responding back with correct speech pattern with no eye dialation.
It's not perfect but right now NFL protocol does not raise the heart rate of player for suspected concussions that do not show symptoms initially. The four steps above are a good start to determine that.
I am not a Doctor but have had concussions and this type of test seems to work in my experience.
As for the team, they still have their own doctor abd their own eyes. The prudent thing to do, at the very least, would have been to end his Sunday.
On top of that, he was not in concussion protocol last week b/c he was not diagnosed with a concussion. So, that decision had a potential cascading effect, as it does not seem the team was even monitoring him on their own. The league, the neutral doctor, the team doctor, the head coach, and team management all seem to have been negligent to some degree, in my opinion.
Well that is just a crime. However, no-one forced Tua out there. He jogged out on the field last week and last night of his own free will.
It will be very interesting to see where this goes from here.
So the Dolphins tried to get Brady (tampering) tried to buy off Flroes to lose games. They have a history of shady sht so who's to say someone didn't get in that *cough cough* independent doctors ear with a little cash incentive to "clear" tua last Sunday?🤔
@ProFootballTalk
Bill Belichick: I've removed players with concussion symptoms even if doctors cleared them.
Link - ( New Window )