Regardless of how Jones plays the rest of the year, unless he turns a true true corner and starts playing incredibly well - it is likely that Daboll and Schoen move on from him. Everything points to that and would likely be the smart thing to do. That being said, let's say Giants finish 8-9, miss the playoffs, and have anywhere from 15-17th overall pick in the 1st round. I think 8-9 is fairly realistic the way we started and how the schedule plays out.
Do you sell the farm to move up to get your QB? Or do you continue to stay patient, maybe take a player in that spot or even trade down to collect a lot more picks like Schoen did in 2022? And move forward with Taylor in 2023? As we saw in that draft, more picks = better chances of success to building a roster. I actually don't really like Taylor at all, but there's an argument to be made that if they continue to rebuild even further and push the QB decision down the road again for another year, that would actually be pretty smart.
My opinion as it stands right now is that Schoen should continue to build the team if it shakes out that way. This roster is incredibly bare at high level talent at a few key spots, mainly WR, LB, and interior OL, I guess you could say CB as well depending on what happens with Jackson.
What say you?
If you were to put the top 6 QBs on this team for the season the overall record isn't going to reflect their ability. The team is terrible outside of a few brightspots here and there. So this is really just overall evaluation for DJ in different scenarios.
5-6 is the max ceiling for this club.
No WRs, no pass blocking, no passing game and a defense that may be going in the wrong direction.
Giants are a Top 10 pick… definitely could make Top 5.
But if a miracle happens and they win 8-9 games, I wouldn’t trade significant draft capital on a QB unless Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll fall madly in love with him, in which case their jobs will be officially tied to him.
Looks at where some of this year's best performers were drafted (Brady taken out as it SKews it)
Allen - 7th
Mahomes - 10th
Rodgers - 24th
Jackson - 32nd
Hurts - 53
If we were 1-2 or 0-3 then yeah, 8-9 would simply be out of the question entirely. But, the Giants beat Tennessee on the road and squeaked out a tough win against the Panthers.
In a nutshell, Saquan is defeated by blitzing the running lanes. Jones has to prove he can beat that blitz or he can't play. So far, it has eluded him.
A few years ago, the Texans were something like 4-12. But Watson played brilliantly. A top five QB. So, focus on the individual performance.
Right now at 2-1, there is absolutely ZERO reason to keep Jones. His play has been, at best, average and uninspiring.
So, he's on his way out.
I think you do what the patriots did and hope the QB you like falls to you, rather than just jumping on the top guy in Trubisky fashion.
Pass on Jones. (Doubt he would return without a sizeable contract)
Pass on Barkley.(too much money to tie into a injury prone running back)
Cut Taylor. (I hated this signing. Waste or resources. If his job was to challenge Jones, he failed. Thanks for playing. Next)
Cut Golladay.
Cut Shep.
And whoever else needs to go.
I'd roll with Webb Use the drafted QB as the backup.
Draft the best QB on the board with our first.
Draft BPA on the rest of the picks. There is almost no talent on this team.
Be smart with the cap and get your type of player without breaking the bank.
If we were 1-2 or 0-3 then yeah, 8-9 would simply be out of the question entirely. But, the Giants beat Tennessee on the road and squeaked out a tough win against the Panthers.
I hear ya and under normal circumstances I would tend to agree with your logic. But right now, things don’t feel “normal” with the Giants IMO. The WR unit is non-existent, the right tackle is a free-swinging gate door and the middle of the o-line is a sieve. Opposing defenses have only one focus: Saquon Barkley. And I’m not sure Daniel Jones can answer the bell for too many more games.
OL had a bad game against Dallas, who looks like the best defense in all of football right now.
We are all saying the OL sucks right now, but that is based on 1 game. They certainly aren't a good unit right now but it is likely they play much better against Chicago.
In a nutshell, Saquan is defeated by blitzing the running lanes. Jones has to prove he can beat that blitz or he can't play. So far, it has eluded him.
Can Daniel Jones simultaneously defeat the blitz while his RT acts like a turnstile and his interior line resembles the colander I use to strain my pasta?
Is that more of an insult to DJ or to Daboll & Schoen ?
OL had a bad game against Dallas, who looks like the best defense in all of football right now.
We are all saying the OL sucks right now, but that is based on 1 game. They certainly aren't a good unit right now but it is likely they play much better against Chicago.
I hear ya but I respectably disagree about the Carolina game… I felt the o-line played at a sub-standard level and I think the offense only accrued about 275 yards, unless we want to blame that modest output entirely on the WRs.
Quote:
We get 14 more games to make this decision. Screws to me today, new QB, because he has not done enough, shove the excuses where the sun don't shine. However, what he does will matter to me. He can change my mind. Win.
In a nutshell, Saquan is defeated by blitzing the running lanes. Jones has to prove he can beat that blitz or he can't play. So far, it has eluded him.
Can Daniel Jones simultaneously defeat the blitz while his RT acts like a turnstile and his interior line resembles the colander I use to strain my pasta?
All while doing it throwing to a bunch of NFL journeyman at best. I love when people compare Burrows situation to the Giants like Tee Higgins and Jamar Chase aren’t two top 15 WRs with the guy working the slot the best in the business. We got dudes falling down, dropping balls, and make zero explosive plays and are no threat down field.
If we were 1-2 or 0-3 then yeah, 8-9 would simply be out of the question entirely. But, the Giants beat Tennessee on the road and squeaked out a tough win against the Panthers.
We have zero shot at 8 wins based solely on our one dimensional offense.
is it? or is it just clear that they are not YET willing to commit 30M/ for him?
imo, build the team and if he doesn't improve as well replace him then
Can Daniel Jones simultaneously defeat the blitz while his RT acts like a turnstile and his interior line resembles the colander I use to strain my pasta?
Poor, poor Danny. Always the victim of circumstances beyond his control, all the way back to high school.
Quote:
In comment 15838757 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
We get 14 more games to make this decision. Screws to me today, new QB, because he has not done enough, shove the excuses where the sun don't shine. However, what he does will matter to me. He can change my mind. Win.
In a nutshell, Saquan is defeated by blitzing the running lanes. Jones has to prove he can beat that blitz or he can't play. So far, it has eluded him.
Can Daniel Jones simultaneously defeat the blitz while his RT acts like a turnstile and his interior line resembles the colander I use to strain my pasta?
All while doing it throwing to a bunch of NFL journeyman at best. I love when people compare Burrows situation to the Giants like Tee Higgins and Jamar Chase aren’t two top 15 WRs with the guy working the slot the best in the business. We got dudes falling down, dropping balls, and make zero explosive plays and are no threat down field.
always. Only fools compare.
The excuses flow for Jones because he looks like what every owner dreams about when they see their franchise QB. I could list a ton of QBs that look a lot different, that performed a lot better than Jones, that did not have the leash that Jones has or the chances. Is what it is.
I think people have to remember the other teams have professional football players too. Its hard to win games when overall you are not very good.
And this garbage that the Giants have already decided about Jones is complete bullshit. Its bullshit for any QB. So let's take a step back on this-- if a QB has a very good season in which in their walk year then people think that the Giants will IGNORE the very good season?
I think we are a bad team and will have a shot at a good QB in the draft (I would like to be wrong- so I expect 5-7 wins.). You can't build your team through Free Agents.
A few years ago, the Texans were something like 4-12. But Watson played brilliantly. A top five QB. So, focus on the individual performance.
Right now at 2-1, there is absolutely ZERO reason to keep Jones. His play has been, at best, average and uninspiring.
So, he's on his way out.
Nothing more important than that position...nothing even close.
Quote:
is spot on. Jones's performance is the what needs to be evaluated over the team record.
A few years ago, the Texans were something like 4-12. But Watson played brilliantly. A top five QB. So, focus on the individual performance.
Right now at 2-1, there is absolutely ZERO reason to keep Jones. His play has been, at best, average and uninspiring.
So, he's on his way out.
If he could find a way to win with a roster so untalented, he would deserve the lion's share of the credit and I would give it. There is no way he can produce stats in this situation. If he finds a way to win, it would matter tons to me.
I don't buy that because I think there is a path to 8-9 wins with the defense playing a much larger part than the offense and Jones.
In 1997, we were 10-5-1 with Danny Kannel at the helm. For a few months, I was - stupidly -buying and selling the idea that Kannel had the "it" factor and he was worth being the future. But that team was really led by the defense (3rd in PPG allowed), a decent running game, and some good luck plays. The offense was only 21st in PPG and near last in passing.
I think it's possible to be that type of team. Which would entail Jones being a passenger more than the driver.
Point out the franchise QBs in 2002, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2013, 2014 and 2015 if you will.
2009 produced Stafford, who didn't do much to lift a crappy team. Sound familiar?
2011 produced Newton. Franchise would be a real stretch.
2016 produced Prescott. Franchise worthy or benefitting from a superior surrounding cast? Probably look like dogshit on the most recent renditions of our so-called team, no?
To state there are franchise Quarterbacks in every draft is quite the overstatement.
OL had a bad game against Dallas, who looks like the best defense in all of football right now.
We are all saying the OL sucks right now, but that is based on 1 game. They certainly aren't a good unit right now but it is likely they play much better against Chicago.
Honestly I don't have any idea what you are watching Ryan but aside from the second half run blocking week one vs. Tennessee our offensive line has absolutely been 100% awful, minus Andrew Thomas.
5-6 is the max ceiling for this club.
No WRs, no pass blocking, no passing game and a defense that may be going in the wrong direction.
Giants are a Top 10 pick… definitely could make Top 5.
But if a miracle happens and they win 8-9 games, I wouldn’t trade significant draft capital on a QB unless Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll fall madly in love with him, in which case their jobs will be officially tied to him.
I disagree with this post. The Giants have these games on their remaining schedule: Bears, Seahawks, Commanders 2x, Texans, Lions & Colts.
To just speak in an absolute that 5-6 wins is the ceiling is silly. They already have two wins. I can easily see 8-9.
I was going to post, There is no way Giants go into next season with Taylor as their entrenched starter.
Your post expresses very well why they won’t
No, it doesn’t.
The Bengals went from 2-14 to Super Bowl in two years.
In a nutshell, Saquan is defeated by blitzing the running lanes. Jones has to prove he can beat that blitz or he can't play. So far, it has eluded him.
I think he d probably have more success defeating them if he’s s receivers wouldn’t drop the ball or fall down, but that s just me
Quote:
If the plan is to start Tyrod Taylor in 2023 ..... I'm done.
I was going to post, There is no way Giants go into next season with Taylor as their entrenched starter.
Your post expresses very well why they won’t
What’s the context? If they draft QB in the first round why wouldn’t Taylor be the starter? Seems way over the top and unfair to a guy whose been deemed a starter elsewhere on multiple teams.
From what I understand, and I'm no follower of college football, there's a guy named Levis with comparable "talent" to what Jones had at Duke but he has his team ranked in the top 10.
Right now, there is no clear cut #1 QB in the draft and there may not be 3 worthy of being picked in the top 10, so they don’t have to “sell the farm” to get one of the best QBs unless Daboll/Schoen is convinced that one of those QBs is a lot better than the others. Daboll says he likes big QBs so I think that leaves Stroud in the top 10 or Levis in the 10-20 range. I haven’t see Stroud play yet but Ohio State QBs have not had a great track record in the NFL. I can’t think of who the last QB from Ohio State was a starter for more than 2 seasons in the NFL. I think the pick will be Levis or someone even lower in the draft.
So maybe rather than trading away a bunch of picks, like the Eli trade, to get a QB from the top of the 2023 draft, the plan will be to hold onto picks, load up on more young players and sign a veteran bridge QB. Then they'd probably draft a QB in 2024 with the hope that they get the next Josh Allen, not the next Josh Rosen. In summer 2024 your bridge QB and the new kid compete, like Kurt Warner competed with Eli Manning. Hopefully then they'd make a Super Bowl run in 2025-2030.
Damn. I could easily be dead by then.
If the HC/GM covet a QB, you get the QB.
Quote:
chip for the last 30 years. Jones played at Duke with a bunch of dudes that have gone onto professional careers.
From what I understand, and I'm no follower of college football, there's a guy named Levis with comparable "talent" to what Jones had at Duke but he has his team ranked in the top 10.
Idk who told you that but UK has had top 25 recruiting classes recently. Not even sure if they rank Duke how low they are.
Quote:
chip for the last 30 years. Jones played at Duke with a bunch of dudes that have gone onto professional careers.
From what I understand, and I'm no follower of college football, there's a guy named Levis with comparable "talent" to what Jones had at Duke but he has his team ranked in the top 10.
Levis/Kentucky have more talent than what Jones had at Duke. In fact, last year Levis played with Wan'Dale Robinson.
Levis also had much more physical talent than Jones. And I don't think it's very close.
Quote:
In comment 15838744 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
If the plan is to start Tyrod Taylor in 2023 ..... I'm done.
I was going to post, There is no way Giants go into next season with Taylor as their entrenched starter.
Your post expresses very well why they won’t
What’s the context? If they draft QB in the first round why wouldn’t Taylor be the starter? Seems way over the top and unfair to a guy whose been deemed a starter elsewhere on multiple teams.
I thought the word “ entrenched” covered that scenerio. If the draft a quarterback with a #1 pick, Taylor would not be long for the starting position.
My bad, should have made it more clear
2004 7 2 Drew Strojny New York Giants T
2013 7 43 Sean Renfree Atlanta Falcons QB
2014 4 9 Ross Cockrell Buffalo Bills DB
2015 1 28 Laken Tomlinson Detroit Lions G
2015 4 6 105 Jamison Crowder Washington
Redskins
2019 1 6 Daniel Jones New York Giants QB
So none when DJ was there.
Quote:
I don’t see anything close to 8-9 wins.
5-6 is the max ceiling for this club.
No WRs, no pass blocking, no passing game and a defense that may be going in the wrong direction.
Giants are a Top 10 pick… definitely could make Top 5.
But if a miracle happens and they win 8-9 games, I wouldn’t trade significant draft capital on a QB unless Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll fall madly in love with him, in which case their jobs will be officially tied to him.
I disagree with this post. The Giants have these games on their remaining schedule: Bears, Seahawks, Commanders 2x, Texans, Lions & Colts.
To just speak in an absolute that 5-6 wins is the ceiling is silly. They already have two wins. I can easily see 8-9.
I think it comes down to our respective perceptions of the team. My perception is that the offense -- with the exception of Saquon Barkley -- looks just as bad as their offenses of the past 4 seasons. Their defense is better, but that's not due to a talent infusion, but rather coaching. Indeed, one could argue that there's less talent with the subtraction of several players including CB James Bradberry and MLB Martinez. Kayvon Thibodeaux is an interesting addition... but the pay-off may not be in the short term. I want to see more than 5-6 wins. I would be extremely happy with 8-9 wins, but I just don't see it. I hope the Giants can change my mind.
The high likelihood is that this is the last year for Jones because the Giants didn't pick up his fifth year option. I don't see the Giants using the FT on him, not at a cost of $31.5M, unless perhaps he plays phenomenally well the rest of the season. That doesn't seem likely.
The Giants could also sign him to a new contract for say two years, but I think he'll likely prefer to move on and get a fresh start with another team, even if they offer less money.
In the vast ocean of incorrect and sometimes just plain old idiotic statements ive seen on this site over the years, this may be one of the most blatantly inaccurate. So you really think that there are "Franchise" qb's in every draft? Cut that statement down to just "QB's" and im there. But ....franchise??? Come on.....I could pull up MULTIPLE years...2013 is a great example... in which there were no franchise QB's selected, unless your definition of a franchise QB is one drafted by a franchise.
heres the deal.....if there is a QB available in the draft who the Giants project as having a better career than Jones is projected to have, then grab him if at all possible. But dont just "take a QB". You need more than just someone who plays the position. Would make no sense whatsoever to pick a QB WORSE than Jones just for the sake of having someone else , anyone, back there.
Go get your QB of the future in this upcoming draft.
We have so many upgrades needed st multiple positions
Don’t be fooled by this year’s record.
I still see a team with about 7 wins in 2022
We're going to win more games than 2 (we may even win this week), but we saw on Monday how weak we are in some positions and how that kills us against good teams.
Like I said in another thread, there are about 6 QBs in the league who are true franchise QBs. The other teams have to build a solid foundation around an average QB. That is what we did for the past three Superbowls the giants were in.
Like I said in another thread, there are about 6 QBs in the league who are true franchise QBs. The other teams have to build a solid foundation around an average QB. That is what we did for the past three Superbowls the giants were in.
Pretty sure the 2011 team was a garbage team willed to a championship by a Hall of Fame QB.
Gee, who is?
JFC, outside of a few legendary players, there are no sure things.
It's Schoen's job to be better at judging talent. That's the hope.
What is their draft position and who is available at QB? Did Levis rise or fall, did any other QB rise enough to be a mid 1st round pick?
There are no answers to the QB question right now
I'm not saying this is what will happen, but it shows that they will do what is best for the team even if the team has a good record.
I'm not saying this is what will happen, but it shows that they will do what is best for the team even if the team has a good record.
Great point.
A question would also be, do they see someone out there worth that pick/replacement.
We can assume they thought Allen would be exactly who he's turned out to be. Not only better than Taylor, but an elite QB for a decade.
I think we won't have a clear answer on this until January to be honest...
The Bengals went from 2-14 to Super Bowl in two years.
Yeah right let's og and compare Joe Burrow to Jones again and simply ignore Chase and Higgins vs what?????????????
Quote:
In comment 15838859 Returning Video Tapes said:
Quote:
chip for the last 30 years. Jones played at Duke with a bunch of dudes that have gone onto professional careers.
From what I understand, and I'm no follower of college football, there's a guy named Levis with comparable "talent" to what Jones had at Duke but he has his team ranked in the top 10.
Idk who told you that but UK has had top 25 recruiting classes recently. Not even sure if they rank Duke how low they are.
+1. What planet is that poster on??? A very funny post he made. The absurdity of the haters continues.
Why? If he has a good season, how can you say it would be unlikely to FT him?
If they aren't expected to be very good in 2023, and they won't have cap issues; why would it make more sense to not sign a good player (if he plays well) at the most important position on the football field to a 1 year "prove it" deal?
If the season ends now after three games, no one in their right mind - which unsurprisingly wouldn't be unanimous here - would say keep Jones. By every statistical metric, he's essentially the same dull player he's been.
So now he's down to 14 games to make his case.
Quote:
.
If the season ends now after three games, no one in their right mind - which unsurprisingly wouldn't be unanimous here - would say keep Jones. By every statistical metric, he's essentially the same dull player he's been.
So now he's down to 14 games to make his case.
I'm completely unconvinced. He holds the ball too long. Too much short stuff. Same lack of awareness. I aee marginal improvement. Ain't enough.
You have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that Jones isn’t the guy. Obviously you are telling us that you’ve got the keen eye. That you know the difference between a quarterback that can win a Super Bowl and one who has no chance.
So who should we draft??? There’s film on all the prospects, who is the guy? Who can win? Who should we try to get?
I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.
If you don't get your guy then you go with a stop gap vet until you find your QB. You don't hang on to Mr.Mediocre and reward mediocrity just because other teams have first round picks.
Quote:
.
You have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that Jones isn’t the guy. Obviously you are telling us that you’ve got the keen eye. That you know the difference between a quarterback that can win a Super Bowl and one who has no chance.
So who should we draft??? There’s film on all the prospects, who is the guy? Who can win? Who should we try to get?
I really haven't watched enough. And I don't think I am particularly good at seeing who will make the jump to the NFL. I thought Burrow would be good, but that was an easy call. I'll form some opinions after the college season. I'll check out everything Cosell has to say. And a few others I listen to.
Quote:
Eight teams with TWO 1st round picks! They were all eyeing this draft for a QBs and people think these teams are magically just going to pass on top QB prospects, so we can have them...
If you don't get your guy then you go with a stop gap vet until you find your QB. You don't hang on to Mr.Mediocre and reward mediocrity just because other teams have first round picks.
Do you think DJ would be a stop gap vet for an NFL team?
The other point I would make is DJ might actually want to stay here for less money on a short term deal so he does have to change coordinators and game plan for the 4th time.
DJ has improved over his career with a offense in shambles around him, he might not be a franchise QB that you want, he is also probably not a franchise QB for anyone else so therefore that deal is not in a table for him anywhere.
I still think there is middle ground here.
For the anti Jones crew, just curious I assume you would keep DJ on a vet min deal which someone will pay him more than that, but what is the number that you would consider keeping him for?
This is the second time that I've seen you make this claim, and the second time that you're incorrect.
Name the eight teams.
There are three superb quarterbacks in next year's draft in Young, Stroud and Levis. This team simply must have one of them. The four year nightmare of Daniel Jones has to end this year. He is a great kid but the decision to draft him at six was arguably the biggest disaster in this team's history compounded by the galactically stupid personnel decisions over the past four years attempting to justify the original sin.
No more excuses. The supporting cast stinks AND the quarterback stinks. Both can be true. And they are. Stop digging. Move on.
Look at the bright side, Milton. If the Giants get rid of Jones, maybe they'll sign your favorite QB, Josh Rosen.
Quote:
.
You have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that Jones isn’t the guy. Obviously you are telling us that you’ve got the keen eye. That you know the difference between a quarterback that can win a Super Bowl and one who has no chance.
So who should we draft??? There’s film on all the prospects, who is the guy? Who can win? Who should we try to get?
And you have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that if the Giants start a black QB, you're giving up your season tickets.
If Anthony Richardson enters the draft that could make things interesting, if there a 4 first round caliber QBs you’d think we’d have the ability to make a move to get into position to take one of them if we really wanted to.
Bottomline is that if the Giants are unhappy with Jones and want to replace him, they will not have the ammo to compete with other QB-needy teams when it comes to landing the consensus top two or three QBs coming out of college. They will need to get lucky (in other words, they get the prospect who was ranked 3rd or 4th among QBs on their board, but he turns out to be the best of the bunch the way Josh Allen has).
Alternatively, it could turn out to be a situation like last year, with no truly desirable QB prospects, which allowed the QB-needy Steelers to land the top QB on their board with the 20th pick. But if the Steelers had been in love with Kenny Pickett they wouldn't have risked waiting until they were on the clock, they would've traded into the top ten the way the Bears did in 2021.
Read that last night and couldn’t get it out of my head. In particular, couldn’t help but wonder if the poster realized that if the season actually did end now the Giants would be picking 28th at the 2023 draft. So good luck finding the next elite QB picking that late. (Which isn’t to say it doesn’t happen. It does, but only about once every 20 years or so.)
But my point was not to rag a bit of one of the usual suspects, but rather to lament the fact that a lot of people appear to be missing out on the fun part of being a football fan. The Giants are 2-1; they’d be in the playoffs if the season ended today, and, at least for now, they are playing meaningful games every week. Maybe in the end they make the playoff, maybe they don’t but they are competing and we haven’t seen that in years. But all a lot of people seem to want to talk about is how quickly can we get rid the of the players who have finally got us competing so that maybe we can get players who’ll make us more competitive 3-4 years down the road.
And I certainly get that the Giants still have plenty of issues especially on offense. Heck, I’ve even pinched myself once or twice in the past few days while asking myself ‘tell me again exactly how we’re winning games?’ And then I look at the stats. Even with all the issues on offense the Giants are 21st in total offense and 18th in points. Not great, but if the Giants can continue to average 20 PPG they’ll be in most games with their defense which is 16th in total D and 12th in points allowed.
One of the things that does happen is that fans tend to focus largely on the holes. But I try and think like a pro because the real challenge for a player or coach is to figure out what you can do and how to try and translate that into wins. In that context the thing that really has me on edge these days is wondering just how good Thibo and Az Ojualri can be. Obviously they were pretty quiet Monday, but neither has even practiced much for weeks, so hopefully they just need a little more time to get to speed. Because they both clearly have talent and if they can give the Giants any kind of pass rush an already pretty good D could be like maybe really good.
And for the most part I tend to regard speculation about getting some new guy in the draft as just so much howling at the moon. Absolutely if Schoen/Daboll have a conviction about a QB they’ll go for it but those types of guys don’t come along all that often, especially outside the top ten. In fact, there was only one year in the past ten (the Mahomes, Watson year) in which a QB taken 10-20 has been a clear upgrade to Jones. In fact, of the 27 QBs selected in the top 20 picks in the past ten years, only 1 in 3 have been clear upgrades to DJ (and those 9 include Andrew Luck whose no longer playing because of injuries and the afore-mentioned Deshaun Watson and of the remaining 7 still in the league, three were #1 picks overall). At the same time, 10 of the 27 have been pretty much busts, while the other 8 (including Jones himself) hardly reflect an upgrade. Bottom line: not great odds especially if you are not picking pretty close to the top 5.
Meanwhile, I have to chuckle at the seemingly endless array of ‘what has Daniel Jones ever shown here?’ comments stated with such absolute certainty that it’s almost like the speakers expect the Giants ultimate decision will be made in consultation with the fan base, when in fact they have no absolutely no idea at all what the Giants are actually thinking re Jones at this stage. In fact, they likely don’t even have a clue even what the criteria Schoen/Daboll and company will be using to make their decision. It is very possible for example that the Giants braintrust is actually thinking to themselves these days that ‘yeah they weren’t sure what they had in Jones when they got here, but he’s done everything they have asked of him so far; he’s taken care of the football; he’s made plays, often in very subtle ways that don’t show up in the stats, to extend drives and give the Giants a chance to win; and that he, along with Saquon, have pretty much carried the offense by themselves such that maybe the goal should be to get them some help!’ And I say that only because in my experience that’s actually how NFL people tend to actually think!!
And you know this because! Because my understanding from a source pretty close to the Giants was that that decision had mostly to do with concerns about Jones' health status. At the time, there was no guarantee that he'd even be cleared to play this year much less next. And if they decided they did want to resign him almost any contract extension was going to be more cap friendly than the 5th year option which would have locked them into $22M. Again that's what I heard from a reasonably reliable source. If you heard something different I'm all ears.
Then there's also the minor detail that having passed on the option they didn't take a QB anywhere in the draft even though that even as late as their 3rd round pick all the top guys were still on the board.
Quote:
they used when they decided not to exercise the 5th year option...
And you know this because! Because my understanding from a source pretty close to the Giants was that that decision had mostly to do with concerns about Jones' health status. At the time, there was no guarantee that he'd even be cleared to play this year much less next. And if they decided they did want to resign him almost any contract extension was going to be more cap friendly than the 5th year option which would have locked them into $22M. Again that's what I heard from a reasonably reliable source. If you heard something different I'm all ears.
Then there's also the minor detail that having passed on the option they didn't take a QB anywhere in the draft even though that even as late as their 3rd round pick all the top guys were still on the board.
Yeah, that’s not the case though. Daboll was talking at the NFL spring meetings, a full month or so before the deadline, that Jones was completely healed and was beginning to do full workouts. His health wasn’t an issue.
And having low evals on that QB class wouldn’t be a surprise. Giants already had Taylor signed and Jones paid for so no need to press for a QB when the entire roster was in a shambles.
So...
I also find it very odd that if the Giants really did know that they'd be looking at QBs sooner rather than later that they would not have taken a shot at one this year. After all Atlanta took Ridder 6 picks after the Giants took a developmental OG with one of their 3rds and they took an undersized slot corner 5 picks before Tennessee took Willis with their other #3. Maybe in fact they just didn't like either guy but man if I know I'm looking for a new QB its a tough case to make.
As to whether Schoen was serious about drafting a QB after doing all their evals I do not know. But with 2 guys already on the books, a weak class and plenty of talent needed everywhere, I figured he would just “punt” that addition until 2023. Being a new GM and all and not wanting to go scorched earth.
But maybe your contact can fill us in on which QB prospect(s) he wanted.
Attached below is article Daboll commenting on March 30 that Jones is "ready to go" for spring practices and the offseason program that was going to start in a day or so. And I already commented that wasn't going to be contact as those spring offseason events never are, at least not for the QB. And by the way, does Daboll really sound in that article like a Head Coach that wants to take things cautiously with Jones neck ON MARCH 30?
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-owners-meetings-mara-schoen-daboll-20220330-3qtxu3ditbhkdnrfixqetu57ma-story.html
Now if you want to debate the logic of not exercising the 5th year option for hopefully better reasons go ahead. But passing on that option was extremely meaningful...
Phil Simms. Wasn't until his 6th year, 1984, that he really established himself. Before that, he was inconsistent and injury prone. In 1983, Parcells chose Brunner to start over Simms which he later regretted and said it was his worst decision he ever made as a HC. [maybe you are too young to know this]
Read that last night and couldn’t get it out of my head. In particular, couldn’t help but wonder if the poster realized that if the season actually did end now the Giants would be picking 28th at the 2023 draft. So good luck finding the next elite QB picking that late. (Which isn’t to say it doesn’t happen. It does, but only about once every 20 years or so.)
But the season doesn't end today.
I wasn't wishing that it did. I was making the point, rather clearly, that Jones has done NOTHING yet to make the case he should be retained.
I hope that adds color to your world.
the only time you don't get aggressive for a franchise qb within reach is if you have pat mahomes and he's signed for 10 years, but even then if you are on the clock and there's a guy you love you may as well make the pick. as we saw with russ and watson qbs can bring back a franchise altering trade return and assuming it's the first round you'd have 4 years. if mahomes never misses a game even better - you can probably still recoup a pick for the player if he's looked good in preseason. even a marginal starter like wentz brought back a first then a second, darnold brought back 2 seconds and he was a bust.
the only reason this doesn't happen more often is because there are very few qb prospects good enough to have a conviction about outside the 1OA pick.
And even more comical, there are people here on BBI that believe the team can go 16-1 with Jones...
I don't think that's impossible.
The Ravens won the 2000 SB and moved on from Trent Dilfer. Which was the correct move.
And that is not an impossible hypothetical. It's literally what is happening.
Then there was a team, around 2007 I think, won an improbable Super Bowl with a QB with a 56% completion mark, who led the league in interceptions and finished the regular season as the 25th rated passer. Eli something or ruther! Can you believe it the team kept him!!!
And that is not an impossible hypothetical. It's literally what is happening.
The Giants have had the worst offensive line, receivers and coaching in the nfl over the last 4 years and there are people on bbi who don’t think that that should effect the qb’s stat line. That is literally happening.
What if the Giants don't get a QB better than Jones? How does it make sense to argue that the team will be better signing a worse player at the most important position in football and pretend like it's an improvement?
I'm all for signing a better QB. But when you talk about what you are saying - it is highly possible that you are getting a worse QB; how can you logically say that move puts the Giants over-the-top also?
Anybody who thinks that needs to check the strength of the weed they're smoking. And I wouldn't want to speak for others, but I believe that the Giants (the current team) are capable of making the playoffs with Jones this year and I'd really like to see him play in an offense with a couple or three decent receivers. Now the Giants get a shot at a top QB prospect with elite potential you go for it. And I just don't see it in this draft unless you want to take a flyer on someone like Hooker of Tennessee or WSU's Ward, but that's really iffy. In the end my sense is based on where we are today that ultimately the Giants best option in the immediate future will be to stick with Jones and work over the next 2-3 years to build up the rest of the roster. And that's not necessarily what I think they should do, but what I think at this time is the most likely path they do follow based on where we're at today.
Quote:
The Ravens won the 2000 SB and moved on from Trent Dilfer. Which was the correct move.
Then there was a team, around 2007 I think, won an improbable Super Bowl with a QB with a 56% completion mark, who led the league in interceptions and finished the regular season as the 25th rated passer. Eli something or ruther! Can you believe it the team kept him!!!
Wow...this is where you want to take this? Maybe the counter is we should take a flyer in the 6th round of the 2023 draft because he could be the next Tom Brady.
Your serve if you really feel Jones is on the cusp of a Hall of Fame career.
Go ahead- look that the rest of the schedule and take off the Giant fan blinders. The Giants SHOULD beat the Bears, built after that its really hard to find many wins. The Jags are much improved and that’s probably a 50-50 game to win.
After that, maybe the Commanders games are winnable- but we seem to play down to them lately. Let’s say they win all 4 of the games listed above- that’s a 6 win team- and I’m not convinced that they will win all 4.
I said it before the season started- this is a 5 win team- a team that is better than last year’s squad and on its way upward- but its still a 5 win team.
Bottom line- if they want a QB, they will be in a prime position to get one.
Go ahead- look that the rest of the schedule and take off the Giant fan blinders. The Giants SHOULD beat the Bears, built after that its really hard to find many wins. The Jags are much improved and that’s probably a 50-50 game to win.
After that, maybe the Commanders games are winnable- but we seem to play down to them lately. Let’s say they win all 4 of the games listed above- that’s a 6 win team- and I’m not convinced that they will win all 4.
I said it before the season started- this is a 5 win team- a team that is better than last year’s squad and on its way upward- but its still a 5 win team.
Bottom line- if they want a QB, they will be in a prime position to get one.
The Giants can’t possibly beat Houston or Detroit or Seattle???
Anybody who thinks that needs to check the strength of the weed they're smoking. And I wouldn't want to speak for others, but I believe that the Giants (the current team) are capable of making the playoffs with Jones this year and I'd really like to see him play in an offense with a couple or three decent receivers. Now the Giants get a shot at a top QB prospect with elite potential you go for it. And I just don't see it in this draft unless you want to take a flyer on someone like Hooker of Tennessee or WSU's Ward, but that's really iffy. In the end my sense is based on where we are today that ultimately the Giants best option in the immediate future will be to stick with Jones and work over the next 2-3 years to build up the rest of the roster. And that's not necessarily what I think they should do, but what I think at this time is the most likely path they do follow based on where we're at today.
Can you write any more unclearly. Make a point and stand by it.
What do YOU think the Giants should do with respect to Jones if it were your decision?
Quote:
Quote:
The Ravens won the 2000 SB and moved on from Trent Dilfer. Which was the correct move.
Then there was a team, around 2007 I think, won an improbable Super Bowl with a QB with a 56% completion mark, who led the league in interceptions and finished the regular season as the 25th rated passer. Eli something or ruther! Can you believe it the team kept him!!!
leAh yes, the BBI, the place where nuance and subtlety go to die! I am being facetious. Didn't think I had to spell it out!!
Wow...this is where you want to take this? Maybe the counter is we should take a flyer in the 6th round of the 2023 draft because he could be the next Tom Brady.
Your serve if you really feel Jones is on the cusp of a Hall of Fame career.
Ah yes, the BBI, the place where nuance and subtlety go to die! I am being facetious. Didn't think I had to spell it out!!
Ah yes, the BBI, the place where nuance and subtlety go to die! I am being facetious. Didn't think I had to spell it out!!
Nobody knows what you are trying to say unless you haven’t seen the replies. You are all over the board and mincing words.
I will ask again, if it were your decision today - what do you do with Daniel Jones with respect to his future?
What if the Giants don't get a QB better than Jones? How does it make sense to argue that the team will be better signing a worse player at the most important position in football and pretend like it's an improvement?
Let me help here. If the Giants ditch Jones, and the next guy is just as poor, you look for another QB.
And you keep doing it until you solve the problem.
Everyone who is so gung-ho on Schoen should expect him to have the skills to find solution on QB. That's why he was hired.
But the first order of business should be getting rid of the guy who is not the solution as of right now - Daniel Jones.
There was a poster on BBI at that time named Britt in Va whose argument for keeping Manning in the face of obvious decline and an obvious need to rebuild was -- "why not us?"
At that time no one could ever muster the words “I think Manning can lead this team to another championship.”
When I read the reason the Giants should keep Jones is because improbable things have happened in the past, I reminded of that time.
Of course Manning stumbled on for a few years and got his teeth kicked in until he was benched and retired.
Quote:
I feel they need to go out abd get a QB in order to continue to grow. Re-signing Jones means committing anywhere from $20-30+M to him, which greatly decreases our ability to go out and get better players. For me, even an improved Jones doesn't put us over the top as a team.
What if the Giants don't get a QB better than Jones? How does it make sense to argue that the team will be better signing a worse player at the most important position in football and pretend like it's an improvement?
I'm all for signing a better QB. But when you talk about what you are saying - it is highly possible that you are getting a worse QB; how can you logically say that move puts the Giants over-the-top also?
Because unless the guy you have is going to win you a Super Bowl, there's very little cost attached to the risk of getting worse at the position. Certainly less cost attached to getting more expensive for the status quo, and much more potential upside.
Do you really think it's disastrous to go from the third quartile to the fourth quartile at QB? Enough to preclude the potential of getting to the top quartile instead?
DJ is never getting to the top quartile and the most efficient part of his career, in terms of cap value, is already already gone to waste. The combination of potential upside and cap value outweighs the risk of the next QB being worse than the status quo, which we can say with strong likelihood isn't good enough anyway.
And that is not an impossible hypothetical. It's literally what is happening.
The best part is this group will only concede moving on from Jones if it's a 100% guarantee his successor is better.
Since that is impossible to predict - outside of signing Mahomes, Rodgers, etc- that is how they keep hope alive...
Quote:
For 4 consecutive years and there are people on BBi who would want to keep him
And that is not an impossible hypothetical. It's literally what is happening.
The Giants have had the worst offensive line, receivers and coaching in the nfl over the last 4 years and there are people on bbi who don’t think that that should effect the qb’s stat line. That is literally happening.
No, we recognize that the team around DJ has sucked, but we also believe he's not very good.
As opposed to recognizing the team around DJ not being very good and using it as a reason to hand wave away every bad play.
Quote:
In comment 15840015 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
For 4 consecutive years and there are people on BBi who would want to keep him
And that is not an impossible hypothetical. It's literally what is happening.
The Giants have had the worst offensive line, receivers and coaching in the nfl over the last 4 years and there are people on bbi who don’t think that that should effect the qb’s stat line. That is literally happening.
No, we recognize that the team around DJ has sucked, but we also believe he's not very good.
As opposed to recognizing the team around DJ not being very good and using it as a reason to hand wave away every bad play.
It's funny. Every year the same people say, the OL was bad last year but now it's even worse, when they were saying it was the worst last year. If you believe them, the Giants OL, which statistically has been bad but not always the worst in the league, is categorically the worst OL, in the league by a wide margin, every year, and getting worse. Soon, they'll say the Giants OL plays like a high school team. But it's not true. They are certainly very bad, but Daniel Jones is also very bad at helping his OL. He holds the ball too long and is indecisive. When he feels pressure, he panics. I think they should consider that this OL might look a little better with a better QB.
There are a lot of possibilities as far as how the Giants approach the QB position this offseason, but it basically boils down to two basic sets of possibilities: stick with DJ, or start the QB search over with a draftee (for argument's sake, I am eliminating the stop gap possibilities because that's not a solution, it's a delay).
Here are the assumptions: the rookie will be cheaper than DJ, and that DJ will not regress (that is, in an effort to simplify the argument and to be fair to DJ, let's assume that DJ either stays the same as he is or improves). We do not know if the rookie will be better or worse than DJ.
I am scoring the options as +1 for the more favorable outcome, 0 for status quo, -1 for the less favorable outcome. Here are our simplified outcomes (and the eliminated options) - note that while the possibility of the rookie being exactly the same level as DJ is plausible, I'm eliminating it because I think it's basically meaningless:
DJ gets cheaper = +1
DJ stays the same price = 0
DJ gets more expensive = -1
Rookie is cheaper than DJ = +1
Rookie is same price as DJ = 0
Rookie is more expensive than DJ = -1
DJ gets worse = -1
DJ stays the same = 0
DJ gets better = +1
Rookie is worse than DJ = -1
Rookie is exactly the same as DJ = 0
Rookie is better than DJ = +1
So this leaves us with four combined outcomes:
1. DJ gets more expensive (-1); DJ stays the same level of play (0) = -1
2. DJ gets more expensive (-1); DJ's level of play improves (+1) = 0
3. Rookie is cheaper (+1); Rookie is worse than DJ (-1) = 0
4. Rookie is cheaper (+1); Rookie is better than DJ (+1) = +2
Quote:
There are FAR too many people buying into this being a good team. They are an IMPROVED team- but an improved team doesn’t guarantee wins.
Go ahead- look that the rest of the schedule and take off the Giant fan blinders. The Giants SHOULD beat the Bears, built after that its really hard to find many wins. The Jags are much improved and that’s probably a 50-50 game to win.
After that, maybe the Commanders games are winnable- but we seem to play down to them lately. Let’s say they win all 4 of the games listed above- that’s a 6 win team- and I’m not convinced that they will win all 4.
I said it before the season started- this is a 5 win team- a team that is better than last year’s squad and on its way upward- but its still a 5 win team.
Bottom line- if they want a QB, they will be in a prime position to get one.
The Giants can’t possibly beat Houston or Detroit or Seattle???
Have you watched them play? Detroit has become a legitimate offense that can rack up 30 points a game. They gave the Eagles all they could handle- the only team to do that to date.
Seattle may not have a QB anymore, but their defense can still hold its own. Remember that the game is in Seattle. That’s no easy place to go and win. THe Giants can’t throw the ball, so they will have to win on the ground- hard to do when the OL can’t hear the snap count.
Houston- I’ll give that one as a possibility.
Quote:
In comment 15840051 rich in DC said:
Quote:
There are FAR too many people buying into this being a good team. They are an IMPROVED team- but an improved team doesn’t guarantee wins.
Go ahead- look that the rest of the schedule and take off the Giant fan blinders. The Giants SHOULD beat the Bears, built after that its really hard to find many wins. The Jags are much improved and that’s probably a 50-50 game to win.
After that, maybe the Commanders games are winnable- but we seem to play down to them lately. Let’s say they win all 4 of the games listed above- that’s a 6 win team- and I’m not convinced that they will win all 4.
I said it before the season started- this is a 5 win team- a team that is better than last year’s squad and on its way upward- but its still a 5 win team.
Bottom line- if they want a QB, they will be in a prime position to get one.
The Giants can’t possibly beat Houston or Detroit or Seattle???
Have you watched them play? Detroit has become a legitimate offense that can rack up 30 points a game. They gave the Eagles all they could handle- the only team to do that to date.
Seattle may not have a QB anymore, but their defense can still hold its own. Remember that the game is in Seattle. That’s no easy place to go and win. THe Giants can’t throw the ball, so they will have to win on the ground- hard to do when the OL can’t hear the snap count.
Houston- I’ll give that one as a possibility.
I’ve seen them all play. They’re all beatable.
Don’t bet on those 5 wins. I don’t want yeti lose your money
Said in another way, what are the Giants willing to bet everything will come together with Daniel Jones. I’d argue very little.
Quote:
For 4 consecutive years and there are people on BBi who would want to keep him
And that is not an impossible hypothetical. It's literally what is happening.
The Giants have had the worst offensive line, receivers and coaching in the nfl over the last 4 years and there are people on bbi who don’t think that that should effect the qb’s stat line. That is literally happening.
It's amazing isn't it how thick these Jones blasters are?
Amazing that so many Ginats fans that pounce on Jones so much can be this dumb.
It's not whther they will be right or worng if Jones make sit - just the increidble dumb reasons given.
And what's even more laughable they feel a need to isolate one reeson in a box instead of looking at everything:
1--- Lousy coaching (prior years).
2--- Lousy Offensvie Line
3--- Lousy Wide Receivers
4-- Lousy Tight Ends
5-- The star RB usually hurt and the backups a bust (which backups have been picked up and done well by other teams?)
========================
Remember - according to the nutjobs none of these things count. Only Jones Only Jones. Only Jones.
=========================
Here is what the nutjobs believe:
1- Coaching doesn't count. It doesn't matter if an OL can provide holes or not provide protection. Further it doesn't matter that the WR's and Tight Ends are amongst the worst in football. And it doesn't matter if you are usually riding backup RB;s with no ability.
It's only the QB. It's only the QB. It's only the QB because they say so.
There are a lot of possibilities as far as how the Giants approach the QB position this offseason, but it basically boils down to two basic sets of possibilities: stick with DJ, or start the QB search over with a draftee (for argument's sake, I am eliminating the stop gap possibilities because that's not a solution, it's a delay).
Here are the assumptions: the rookie will be cheaper than DJ, and that DJ will not regress (that is, in an effort to simplify the argument and to be fair to DJ, let's assume that DJ either stays the same as he is or improves). We do not know if the rookie will be better or worse than DJ.
I am scoring the options as +1 for the more favorable outcome, 0 for status quo, -1 for the less favorable outcome. Here are our simplified outcomes (and the eliminated options) - note that while the possibility of the rookie being exactly the same level as DJ is plausible, I'm eliminating it because I think it's basically meaningless:
DJ gets cheaper = +1
DJ stays the same price = 0
DJ gets more expensive = -1
Rookie is cheaper than DJ = +1
Rookie is same price as DJ = 0
Rookie is more expensive than DJ = -1
DJ gets worse = -1
DJ stays the same = 0
DJ gets better = +1
Rookie is worse than DJ = -1
Rookie is exactly the same as DJ = 0
Rookie is better than DJ = +1
So this leaves us with four combined outcomes:
1. DJ gets more expensive (-1); DJ stays the same level of play (0) = -1
2. DJ gets more expensive (-1); DJ's level of play improves (+1) = 0
3. Rookie is cheaper (+1); Rookie is worse than DJ (-1) = 0
4. Rookie is cheaper (+1); Rookie is better than DJ (+1) = +2
Well done, but the DJ Fan Club was told there wasn't going to be any math...
Quote:
And even more comical, there are people here on BBI that believe the team can go 16-1 with Jones...
Anybody who thinks that needs to check the strength of the weed they're smoking. And I wouldn't want to speak for others, but I believe that the Giants (the current team) are capable of making the playoffs with Jones this year and I'd really like to see him play in an offense with a couple or three decent receivers. Now the Giants get a shot at a top QB prospect with elite potential you go for it. And I just don't see it in this draft unless you want to take a flyer on someone like Hooker of Tennessee or WSU's Ward, but that's really iffy. In the end my sense is based on where we are today that ultimately the Giants best option in the immediate future will be to stick with Jones and work over the next 2-3 years to build up the rest of the roster. And that's not necessarily what I think they should do, but what I think at this time is the most likely path they do follow based on where we're at today.
Can you write any more unclearly. Make a point and stand by it.
What do YOU think the Giants should do with respect to Jones if it were your decision?
Agree chick. Let's see if I can parse up Colin's stance(s) as of today in that paragraph...
*The Jones-led Giants are a potential playoff team.
*But if Giants can get a top prospect in the next Draft then they should draft him.
*However, on Oct 2 it doesn't appear there are any top QB prospects that will be available to Giants.
*So the best option per Colin is to keep Jones in place.
*But it's also not ultimately what Colin thinks they should do.
*But it's the path the Giants likely follow.
okay...
2) Given that the Giants still have lots of needs, I would not trade up to get a franchise quarterback in 2023. It's possible the Giants can find a "franchise quarterback" on the 2nd or 3rd round next year. If one is not available, draft a quarterback in 2024 and draft for need in 2023.
Quote:
In comment 15840036 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
And even more comical, there are people here on BBI that believe the team can go 16-1 with Jones...
Anybody who thinks that needs to check the strength of the weed they're smoking. And I wouldn't want to speak for others, but I believe that the Giants (the current team) are capable of making the playoffs with Jones this year and I'd really like to see him play in an offense with a couple or three decent receivers. Now the Giants get a shot at a top QB prospect with elite potential you go for it. And I just don't see it in this draft unless you want to take a flyer on someone like Hooker of Tennessee or WSU's Ward, but that's really iffy. In the end my sense is based on where we are today that ultimately the Giants best option in the immediate future will be to stick with Jones and work over the next 2-3 years to build up the rest of the roster. And that's not necessarily what I think they should do, but what I think at this time is the most likely path they do follow based on where we're at today.
Can you write any more unclearly. Make a point and stand by it.
What do YOU think the Giants should do with respect to Jones if it were your decision?
Agree chick. Let's see if I can parse up Colin's stance(s) as of today in that paragraph...
*The Jones-led Giants are a potential playoff team.
*But if Giants can get a top prospect in the next Draft then they should draft him.
*However, on Oct 2 it doesn't appear there are any top QB prospects that will be available to Giants.
*So the best option per Colin is to keep Jones in place.
*But it's also not ultimately what Colin thinks they should do.
*But it's the path the Giants likely follow.
okay...
I see there seem to be some reading comprehension issues when things which aren't black and white aren't expressed in black and white terms.
I was going to rephrase to help out the reading challenged but then I sort of figured out the reading challenged were just being recalcitrant (hope that's not too big a word) because what I am suggesting doesn't fit their narrative.
Here's your chance...
Daniel Jones is a free agent, so this debate is really quite simple. It’s the same question many of us asked about Eli Manning in his waning years.
1) Do you believe Daniel Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How many years and dollars should the Giants be on that
Anyone who can’t answer those questions just simply isn’t debating in good faith.
Quote:
In comment 15840066 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15840051 rich in DC said:
Quote:
There are FAR too many people buying into this being a good team. They are an IMPROVED team- but an improved team doesn’t guarantee wins.
Go ahead- look that the rest of the schedule and take off the Giant fan blinders. The Giants SHOULD beat the Bears, built after that its really hard to find many wins. The Jags are much improved and that’s probably a 50-50 game to win.
After that, maybe the Commanders games are winnable- but we seem to play down to them lately. Let’s say they win all 4 of the games listed above- that’s a 6 win team- and I’m not convinced that they will win all 4.
I said it before the season started- this is a 5 win team- a team that is better than last year’s squad and on its way upward- but its still a 5 win team.
Bottom line- if they want a QB, they will be in a prime position to get one.
The Giants can’t possibly beat Houston or Detroit or Seattle???
Have you watched them play? Detroit has become a legitimate offense that can rack up 30 points a game. They gave the Eagles all they could handle- the only team to do that to date.
Seattle may not have a QB anymore, but their defense can still hold its own. Remember that the game is in Seattle. That’s no easy place to go and win. THe Giants can’t throw the ball, so they will have to win on the ground- hard to do when the OL can’t hear the snap count.
Houston- I’ll give that one as a possibility.
I’ve seen them all play. They’re all beatable.
Don’t bet on those 5 wins. I don’t want yeti lose your money
If you believe that, I’m not the one who shouldn’t be betting. This is a 5 win team whether Giants homers want to believe it or not.
The debate about whether they will be in a position to pick a QB is academic- they’re going to have another top 5 pick
Quote:
I feel they need to go out abd get a QB in order to continue to grow. Re-signing Jones means committing anywhere from $20-30+M to him, which greatly decreases our ability to go out and get better players. For me, even an improved Jones doesn't put us over the top as a team.
What if the Giants don't get a QB better than Jones? How does it make sense to argue that the team will be better signing a worse player at the most important position in football and pretend like it's an improvement?
I'm all for signing a better QB. But when you talk about what you are saying - it is highly possible that you are getting a worse QB; how can you logically say that move puts the Giants over-the-top also?
Jones is playing for a second deal. The market for a QB with his drsft position is around $20M or more and the franchise tag is over $30M. Can you confidently and honestly say Jones is worth nearly that much, especially when they already have a lot invested in Williams? I've said it over and over, I order for Jones to warrant a new deal here, I think he needs to have an other worldly season, which is highly unlikely.
We've already seen some improvement from him, which is great. But, some.big deficiencies in his game still remain. I just can't see any scenario in which Jones is a top 5 or even top 10 QB this year. Can you?
For me, I doesn't mean I don't like Jones. I do. But, it is about investing so much cap space ona QB who is not making anyone around him better when we still have a lot of work to do on the roster. It just doesn't make sense to me.
So, how do you foresee Jones thriving without better players? Does anyone sincerely want to pay him.anywhere between $20M and $30+M for more show me seasons in hopes we can make everything perfect for him?
Quote:
In comment 15840066 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
In comment 15840051 rich in DC said:
Quote:
There are FAR too many people buying into this being a good team. They are an IMPROVED team- but an improved team doesn’t guarantee wins.
Go ahead- look that the rest of the schedule and take off the Giant fan blinders. The Giants SHOULD beat the Bears, built after that its really hard to find many wins. The Jags are much improved and that’s probably a 50-50 game to win.
After that, maybe the Commanders games are winnable- but we seem to play down to them lately. Let’s say they win all 4 of the games listed above- that’s a 6 win team- and I’m not convinced that they will win all 4.
I said it before the season started- this is a 5 win team- a team that is better than last year’s squad and on its way upward- but its still a 5 win team.
Bottom line- if they want a QB, they will be in a prime position to get one.
The Giants can’t possibly beat Houston or Detroit or Seattle???
Have you watched them play? Detroit has become a legitimate offense that can rack up 30 points a game. They gave the Eagles all they could handle- the only team to do that to date.
Seattle may not have a QB anymore, but their defense can still hold its own. Remember that the game is in Seattle. That’s no easy place to go and win. THe Giants can’t throw the ball, so they will have to win on the ground- hard to do when the OL can’t hear the snap count.
Houston- I’ll give that one as a possibility.
I’ve seen them all play. They’re all beatable.
Don’t bet on those 5 wins. I don’t want yeti lose your money
After today’s game do you SERIOUSLY want to argue that those clubs are “beatable”?
I hope there is a coming back to earth moment for all the “with this schedule we’ll win 7-9 games” crowd. Again, as I have said since the draft- this is a 5 win team- and that might be optimistic.
The next QB will be a draft pick because we will have another high pick
I hope there is a coming back to earth moment for all the “with this schedule we’ll win 7-9 games” crowd. Again, as I have said since the draft- this is a 5 win team- and that might be optimistic.
Look, I'm part of that crowd based on assessing the schedule and overall play around the league thus far.
I think we are below average team overall, but the defense is doing a terrific job limiting PPG. And there is a chance we can milk that for more wins than most think.