Regardless of how Jones plays the rest of the year, unless he turns a true true corner and starts playing incredibly well - it is likely that Daboll and Schoen move on from him. Everything points to that and would likely be the smart thing to do. That being said, let's say Giants finish 8-9, miss the playoffs, and have anywhere from 15-17th overall pick in the 1st round. I think 8-9 is fairly realistic the way we started and how the schedule plays out.
Do you sell the farm to move up to get your QB? Or do you continue to stay patient, maybe take a player in that spot or even trade down to collect a lot more picks like Schoen did in 2022? And move forward with Taylor in 2023? As we saw in that draft, more picks = better chances of success to building a roster. I actually don't really like Taylor at all, but there's an argument to be made that if they continue to rebuild even further and push the QB decision down the road again for another year, that would actually be pretty smart.
My opinion as it stands right now is that Schoen should continue to build the team if it shakes out that way. This roster is incredibly bare at high level talent at a few key spots, mainly WR, LB, and interior OL, I guess you could say CB as well depending on what happens with Jackson.
What say you?
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chip for the last 30 years. Jones played at Duke with a bunch of dudes that have gone onto professional careers.
From what I understand, and I'm no follower of college football, there's a guy named Levis with comparable "talent" to what Jones had at Duke but he has his team ranked in the top 10.
Idk who told you that but UK has had top 25 recruiting classes recently. Not even sure if they rank Duke how low they are.
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chip for the last 30 years. Jones played at Duke with a bunch of dudes that have gone onto professional careers.
From what I understand, and I'm no follower of college football, there's a guy named Levis with comparable "talent" to what Jones had at Duke but he has his team ranked in the top 10.
Levis/Kentucky have more talent than what Jones had at Duke. In fact, last year Levis played with Wan'Dale Robinson.
Levis also had much more physical talent than Jones. And I don't think it's very close.
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In comment 15838744 Ron Johnson said:
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If the plan is to start Tyrod Taylor in 2023 ..... I'm done.
I was going to post, There is no way Giants go into next season with Taylor as their entrenched starter.
Your post expresses very well why they won’t
What’s the context? If they draft QB in the first round why wouldn’t Taylor be the starter? Seems way over the top and unfair to a guy whose been deemed a starter elsewhere on multiple teams.
I thought the word “ entrenched” covered that scenerio. If the draft a quarterback with a #1 pick, Taylor would not be long for the starting position.
My bad, should have made it more clear
2004 7 2 Drew Strojny New York Giants T
2013 7 43 Sean Renfree Atlanta Falcons QB
2014 4 9 Ross Cockrell Buffalo Bills DB
2015 1 28 Laken Tomlinson Detroit Lions G
2015 4 6 105 Jamison Crowder Washington
Redskins
2019 1 6 Daniel Jones New York Giants QB
So none when DJ was there.
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I don’t see anything close to 8-9 wins.
5-6 is the max ceiling for this club.
No WRs, no pass blocking, no passing game and a defense that may be going in the wrong direction.
Giants are a Top 10 pick… definitely could make Top 5.
But if a miracle happens and they win 8-9 games, I wouldn’t trade significant draft capital on a QB unless Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll fall madly in love with him, in which case their jobs will be officially tied to him.
I disagree with this post. The Giants have these games on their remaining schedule: Bears, Seahawks, Commanders 2x, Texans, Lions & Colts.
To just speak in an absolute that 5-6 wins is the ceiling is silly. They already have two wins. I can easily see 8-9.
I think it comes down to our respective perceptions of the team. My perception is that the offense -- with the exception of Saquon Barkley -- looks just as bad as their offenses of the past 4 seasons. Their defense is better, but that's not due to a talent infusion, but rather coaching. Indeed, one could argue that there's less talent with the subtraction of several players including CB James Bradberry and MLB Martinez. Kayvon Thibodeaux is an interesting addition... but the pay-off may not be in the short term. I want to see more than 5-6 wins. I would be extremely happy with 8-9 wins, but I just don't see it. I hope the Giants can change my mind.
The high likelihood is that this is the last year for Jones because the Giants didn't pick up his fifth year option. I don't see the Giants using the FT on him, not at a cost of $31.5M, unless perhaps he plays phenomenally well the rest of the season. That doesn't seem likely.
The Giants could also sign him to a new contract for say two years, but I think he'll likely prefer to move on and get a fresh start with another team, even if they offer less money.
In the vast ocean of incorrect and sometimes just plain old idiotic statements ive seen on this site over the years, this may be one of the most blatantly inaccurate. So you really think that there are "Franchise" qb's in every draft? Cut that statement down to just "QB's" and im there. But ....franchise??? Come on.....I could pull up MULTIPLE years...2013 is a great example... in which there were no franchise QB's selected, unless your definition of a franchise QB is one drafted by a franchise.
heres the deal.....if there is a QB available in the draft who the Giants project as having a better career than Jones is projected to have, then grab him if at all possible. But dont just "take a QB". You need more than just someone who plays the position. Would make no sense whatsoever to pick a QB WORSE than Jones just for the sake of having someone else , anyone, back there.
Go get your QB of the future in this upcoming draft.
We have so many upgrades needed st multiple positions
Don’t be fooled by this year’s record.
I still see a team with about 7 wins in 2022
We're going to win more games than 2 (we may even win this week), but we saw on Monday how weak we are in some positions and how that kills us against good teams.
Like I said in another thread, there are about 6 QBs in the league who are true franchise QBs. The other teams have to build a solid foundation around an average QB. That is what we did for the past three Superbowls the giants were in.
Like I said in another thread, there are about 6 QBs in the league who are true franchise QBs. The other teams have to build a solid foundation around an average QB. That is what we did for the past three Superbowls the giants were in.
Pretty sure the 2011 team was a garbage team willed to a championship by a Hall of Fame QB.
Gee, who is?
JFC, outside of a few legendary players, there are no sure things.
It's Schoen's job to be better at judging talent. That's the hope.
What is their draft position and who is available at QB? Did Levis rise or fall, did any other QB rise enough to be a mid 1st round pick?
There are no answers to the QB question right now
I'm not saying this is what will happen, but it shows that they will do what is best for the team even if the team has a good record.
I'm not saying this is what will happen, but it shows that they will do what is best for the team even if the team has a good record.
Great point.
A question would also be, do they see someone out there worth that pick/replacement.
We can assume they thought Allen would be exactly who he's turned out to be. Not only better than Taylor, but an elite QB for a decade.
I think we won't have a clear answer on this until January to be honest...
The Bengals went from 2-14 to Super Bowl in two years.
Yeah right let's og and compare Joe Burrow to Jones again and simply ignore Chase and Higgins vs what?????????????
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In comment 15838859 Returning Video Tapes said:
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chip for the last 30 years. Jones played at Duke with a bunch of dudes that have gone onto professional careers.
From what I understand, and I'm no follower of college football, there's a guy named Levis with comparable "talent" to what Jones had at Duke but he has his team ranked in the top 10.
Idk who told you that but UK has had top 25 recruiting classes recently. Not even sure if they rank Duke how low they are.
+1. What planet is that poster on??? A very funny post he made. The absurdity of the haters continues.
Why? If he has a good season, how can you say it would be unlikely to FT him?
If they aren't expected to be very good in 2023, and they won't have cap issues; why would it make more sense to not sign a good player (if he plays well) at the most important position on the football field to a 1 year "prove it" deal?
If the season ends now after three games, no one in their right mind - which unsurprisingly wouldn't be unanimous here - would say keep Jones. By every statistical metric, he's essentially the same dull player he's been.
So now he's down to 14 games to make his case.
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If the season ends now after three games, no one in their right mind - which unsurprisingly wouldn't be unanimous here - would say keep Jones. By every statistical metric, he's essentially the same dull player he's been.
So now he's down to 14 games to make his case.
I'm completely unconvinced. He holds the ball too long. Too much short stuff. Same lack of awareness. I aee marginal improvement. Ain't enough.
You have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that Jones isn’t the guy. Obviously you are telling us that you’ve got the keen eye. That you know the difference between a quarterback that can win a Super Bowl and one who has no chance.
So who should we draft??? There’s film on all the prospects, who is the guy? Who can win? Who should we try to get?
I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.
If you don't get your guy then you go with a stop gap vet until you find your QB. You don't hang on to Mr.Mediocre and reward mediocrity just because other teams have first round picks.
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You have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that Jones isn’t the guy. Obviously you are telling us that you’ve got the keen eye. That you know the difference between a quarterback that can win a Super Bowl and one who has no chance.
So who should we draft??? There’s film on all the prospects, who is the guy? Who can win? Who should we try to get?
I really haven't watched enough. And I don't think I am particularly good at seeing who will make the jump to the NFL. I thought Burrow would be good, but that was an easy call. I'll form some opinions after the college season. I'll check out everything Cosell has to say. And a few others I listen to.
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Eight teams with TWO 1st round picks! They were all eyeing this draft for a QBs and people think these teams are magically just going to pass on top QB prospects, so we can have them...
If you don't get your guy then you go with a stop gap vet until you find your QB. You don't hang on to Mr.Mediocre and reward mediocrity just because other teams have first round picks.
Do you think DJ would be a stop gap vet for an NFL team?
The other point I would make is DJ might actually want to stay here for less money on a short term deal so he does have to change coordinators and game plan for the 4th time.
DJ has improved over his career with a offense in shambles around him, he might not be a franchise QB that you want, he is also probably not a franchise QB for anyone else so therefore that deal is not in a table for him anywhere.
I still think there is middle ground here.
For the anti Jones crew, just curious I assume you would keep DJ on a vet min deal which someone will pay him more than that, but what is the number that you would consider keeping him for?
This is the second time that I've seen you make this claim, and the second time that you're incorrect.
Name the eight teams.
There are three superb quarterbacks in next year's draft in Young, Stroud and Levis. This team simply must have one of them. The four year nightmare of Daniel Jones has to end this year. He is a great kid but the decision to draft him at six was arguably the biggest disaster in this team's history compounded by the galactically stupid personnel decisions over the past four years attempting to justify the original sin.
No more excuses. The supporting cast stinks AND the quarterback stinks. Both can be true. And they are. Stop digging. Move on.
Look at the bright side, Milton. If the Giants get rid of Jones, maybe they'll sign your favorite QB, Josh Rosen.
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You have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that Jones isn’t the guy. Obviously you are telling us that you’ve got the keen eye. That you know the difference between a quarterback that can win a Super Bowl and one who has no chance.
So who should we draft??? There’s film on all the prospects, who is the guy? Who can win? Who should we try to get?
And you have proclaimed, in no uncertain terms, that if the Giants start a black QB, you're giving up your season tickets.
If Anthony Richardson enters the draft that could make things interesting, if there a 4 first round caliber QBs you’d think we’d have the ability to make a move to get into position to take one of them if we really wanted to.
Bottomline is that if the Giants are unhappy with Jones and want to replace him, they will not have the ammo to compete with other QB-needy teams when it comes to landing the consensus top two or three QBs coming out of college. They will need to get lucky (in other words, they get the prospect who was ranked 3rd or 4th among QBs on their board, but he turns out to be the best of the bunch the way Josh Allen has).
Alternatively, it could turn out to be a situation like last year, with no truly desirable QB prospects, which allowed the QB-needy Steelers to land the top QB on their board with the 20th pick. But if the Steelers had been in love with Kenny Pickett they wouldn't have risked waiting until they were on the clock, they would've traded into the top ten the way the Bears did in 2021.
Read that last night and couldn’t get it out of my head. In particular, couldn’t help but wonder if the poster realized that if the season actually did end now the Giants would be picking 28th at the 2023 draft. So good luck finding the next elite QB picking that late. (Which isn’t to say it doesn’t happen. It does, but only about once every 20 years or so.)
But my point was not to rag a bit of one of the usual suspects, but rather to lament the fact that a lot of people appear to be missing out on the fun part of being a football fan. The Giants are 2-1; they’d be in the playoffs if the season ended today, and, at least for now, they are playing meaningful games every week. Maybe in the end they make the playoff, maybe they don’t but they are competing and we haven’t seen that in years. But all a lot of people seem to want to talk about is how quickly can we get rid the of the players who have finally got us competing so that maybe we can get players who’ll make us more competitive 3-4 years down the road.
And I certainly get that the Giants still have plenty of issues especially on offense. Heck, I’ve even pinched myself once or twice in the past few days while asking myself ‘tell me again exactly how we’re winning games?’ And then I look at the stats. Even with all the issues on offense the Giants are 21st in total offense and 18th in points. Not great, but if the Giants can continue to average 20 PPG they’ll be in most games with their defense which is 16th in total D and 12th in points allowed.
One of the things that does happen is that fans tend to focus largely on the holes. But I try and think like a pro because the real challenge for a player or coach is to figure out what you can do and how to try and translate that into wins. In that context the thing that really has me on edge these days is wondering just how good Thibo and Az Ojualri can be. Obviously they were pretty quiet Monday, but neither has even practiced much for weeks, so hopefully they just need a little more time to get to speed. Because they both clearly have talent and if they can give the Giants any kind of pass rush an already pretty good D could be like maybe really good.
And for the most part I tend to regard speculation about getting some new guy in the draft as just so much howling at the moon. Absolutely if Schoen/Daboll have a conviction about a QB they’ll go for it but those types of guys don’t come along all that often, especially outside the top ten. In fact, there was only one year in the past ten (the Mahomes, Watson year) in which a QB taken 10-20 has been a clear upgrade to Jones. In fact, of the 27 QBs selected in the top 20 picks in the past ten years, only 1 in 3 have been clear upgrades to DJ (and those 9 include Andrew Luck whose no longer playing because of injuries and the afore-mentioned Deshaun Watson and of the remaining 7 still in the league, three were #1 picks overall). At the same time, 10 of the 27 have been pretty much busts, while the other 8 (including Jones himself) hardly reflect an upgrade. Bottom line: not great odds especially if you are not picking pretty close to the top 5.
Meanwhile, I have to chuckle at the seemingly endless array of ‘what has Daniel Jones ever shown here?’ comments stated with such absolute certainty that it’s almost like the speakers expect the Giants ultimate decision will be made in consultation with the fan base, when in fact they have no absolutely no idea at all what the Giants are actually thinking re Jones at this stage. In fact, they likely don’t even have a clue even what the criteria Schoen/Daboll and company will be using to make their decision. It is very possible for example that the Giants braintrust is actually thinking to themselves these days that ‘yeah they weren’t sure what they had in Jones when they got here, but he’s done everything they have asked of him so far; he’s taken care of the football; he’s made plays, often in very subtle ways that don’t show up in the stats, to extend drives and give the Giants a chance to win; and that he, along with Saquon, have pretty much carried the offense by themselves such that maybe the goal should be to get them some help!’ And I say that only because in my experience that’s actually how NFL people tend to actually think!!
And you know this because! Because my understanding from a source pretty close to the Giants was that that decision had mostly to do with concerns about Jones' health status. At the time, there was no guarantee that he'd even be cleared to play this year much less next. And if they decided they did want to resign him almost any contract extension was going to be more cap friendly than the 5th year option which would have locked them into $22M. Again that's what I heard from a reasonably reliable source. If you heard something different I'm all ears.
Then there's also the minor detail that having passed on the option they didn't take a QB anywhere in the draft even though that even as late as their 3rd round pick all the top guys were still on the board.
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they used when they decided not to exercise the 5th year option...
And you know this because! Because my understanding from a source pretty close to the Giants was that that decision had mostly to do with concerns about Jones' health status. At the time, there was no guarantee that he'd even be cleared to play this year much less next. And if they decided they did want to resign him almost any contract extension was going to be more cap friendly than the 5th year option which would have locked them into $22M. Again that's what I heard from a reasonably reliable source. If you heard something different I'm all ears.
Then there's also the minor detail that having passed on the option they didn't take a QB anywhere in the draft even though that even as late as their 3rd round pick all the top guys were still on the board.
Yeah, that’s not the case though. Daboll was talking at the NFL spring meetings, a full month or so before the deadline, that Jones was completely healed and was beginning to do full workouts. His health wasn’t an issue.
And having low evals on that QB class wouldn’t be a surprise. Giants already had Taylor signed and Jones paid for so no need to press for a QB when the entire roster was in a shambles.
So...
I also find it very odd that if the Giants really did know that they'd be looking at QBs sooner rather than later that they would not have taken a shot at one this year. After all Atlanta took Ridder 6 picks after the Giants took a developmental OG with one of their 3rds and they took an undersized slot corner 5 picks before Tennessee took Willis with their other #3. Maybe in fact they just didn't like either guy but man if I know I'm looking for a new QB its a tough case to make.
As to whether Schoen was serious about drafting a QB after doing all their evals I do not know. But with 2 guys already on the books, a weak class and plenty of talent needed everywhere, I figured he would just “punt” that addition until 2023. Being a new GM and all and not wanting to go scorched earth.
But maybe your contact can fill us in on which QB prospect(s) he wanted.
Attached below is article Daboll commenting on March 30 that Jones is "ready to go" for spring practices and the offseason program that was going to start in a day or so. And I already commented that wasn't going to be contact as those spring offseason events never are, at least not for the QB. And by the way, does Daboll really sound in that article like a Head Coach that wants to take things cautiously with Jones neck ON MARCH 30?
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-owners-meetings-mara-schoen-daboll-20220330-3qtxu3ditbhkdnrfixqetu57ma-story.html
Now if you want to debate the logic of not exercising the 5th year option for hopefully better reasons go ahead. But passing on that option was extremely meaningful...
Phil Simms. Wasn't until his 6th year, 1984, that he really established himself. Before that, he was inconsistent and injury prone. In 1983, Parcells chose Brunner to start over Simms which he later regretted and said it was his worst decision he ever made as a HC. [maybe you are too young to know this]
Read that last night and couldn’t get it out of my head. In particular, couldn’t help but wonder if the poster realized that if the season actually did end now the Giants would be picking 28th at the 2023 draft. So good luck finding the next elite QB picking that late. (Which isn’t to say it doesn’t happen. It does, but only about once every 20 years or so.)
But the season doesn't end today.
I wasn't wishing that it did. I was making the point, rather clearly, that Jones has done NOTHING yet to make the case he should be retained.
I hope that adds color to your world.