I am trying to get into it, but the characters just aren't getting me to buy in. Give me an elf that can fight like Legolas... this guy seems semi-useless. And the stranger and all... I dunno, it is all over the place....
These types of shows need a lot of screen time to create the plot.
I think if it was just some original fantasy series instead of Lord of the Rings and all the accompanying scrutiny it'd be doing a lot better in terms of critical reception.
I re-watched Lord of the Rings with the wife while waiting for the new episodes (she had never seen them) and I have to admit they don't hold up as well as I'd thought. I guess that's to be expected for 20 year old movies, but after Fellowship I found myself pretty bored at times.
I think the Middle Earth of RoP is more interesting: the world building is better and the visuals are impressive (one would hope after the gobs of money they spent on it).
My main complaint is how they're trying too hard with the girl power aspect of Galadriel. First off, age difference aside, it seems like a major retcon of her character. Secondly it just looks absurd at times, like when her little platoon of subordinates (only men of course) are only there to give her a ramp to leap off of and slay trolls. I think they could have played up Galadriel's wits a bit more instead of making her this physical brute who tries to smash her way through everything.
All in all I like the three narratives and haven't had any issues following them.
It has been better with each episode IMO. Todays was the best one so far. Keep in mind that Amazon wants to do 5 seasons so it’s going to be very slow. If you’re expecting Sauron to be revealed this season I think you will be disappointed.
I think the harshest criticism is from incel fanboys who like to review bomb if things don't meet their worldview.
But I agree that the dialogue is not great, and it is a little scattered, especially if you don't know the source material (i.e. if you haven't read the Silmarilion or the Return of the King appendices).
But I liked last week's episode the best so far (haven't seen today's). I think it will steadily improve.
Who does everyone think the stranger is? At first I thought that he was Gandalf but now I think it’s Saruman.
I also thought it might be Radogast? I don't recall too much of his backstory from the books, but it would seemingly fit that he falls in with the Harfoots.
I'm 4 episodes in, enjoying it so far. I'd agree with the 'good, not great' sentiment, but as a fan of the books, I not too hung up on any liberties they're taking so far with the characters' stories. I didn't love the Galadriel story at first, but the way they played out how she rallied Numenor to join her was pretty well done
Showing Durin and the Dwarves discovering mithril...and, as we know, eventually something worse was well done too, IMO
...because the Valar sent him to Middle Earth to fight against Sauron... the the meteor came from the Undying Lands right as the Elves were returning because the fight against Sauron was apparently won... I guess the the Valar know different!
But a friend who is a huge Tolkien geek reminded me that that was in the beginning of the Third Age.
Still, the talking with fireflies is very Gandalf-like, isn't it? And befriending the future Hobbits?
My guess is that the writers are putting some events and characters in the span of a few years that took place over centuries to make the story more manageable.
For example, originally Sauron helped Celibrimbor make the rings of power about 1500 years before the Numenoreans of Miriel's rein.
...because the Valar sent him to Middle Earth to fight against Sauron... the the meteor came from the Undying Lands right as the Elves were returning because the fight against Sauron was apparently won... I guess the the Valar know different!
But a friend who is a huge Tolkien geek reminded me that that was in the beginning of the Third Age.
Still, the talking with fireflies is very Gandalf-like, isn't it? And befriending the future Hobbits?
My guess is that the writers are putting some events and characters in the span of a few years that took place over centuries to make the story more manageable.
I started watching the first episode, and got tired so I turned it off. Started watching the rest the next night, fell asleep, woke up, and thought I watched the end of the episode. Something seemed like it was missing to me. Turns out I must have fell asleep, and watched 20 minutes of episode 1, and the last 15 minutes of episode 2.
Looking forward to getting into it tho.
but wasn't hooked. I went back to "for all mankind" on apple tv and really like it. Almost done with season 3. After that I don't know if I will go back to ROP as there's so much other shit I want to watch, notably stuff on apple tv.
RE: I like it, but I can understand the (legit) criticism
but wasn't hooked. I went back to "for all mankind" on apple tv and really like it. Almost done with season 3. After that I don't know if I will go back to ROP as there's so much other shit I want to watch, notably stuff on apple tv.
but I think everyone was willing to stick with it because "Hey, those siblings are fucking and they just threw that little kid out of a window!"
It's harder to pull off with a high fantasy story that's not as R rated. I prefer the slow build up because it leads to a better pay off.
I think a big difference is a ton of people read Game of Thrones versus the source material here. And while I have not watched this show, the acting in GoT season 1 was superb.
I read the Hobbit and the original 3 novels, and watched the 3 movies. There is so much good tv to watch, books to read, terrible Giants teams to follow, etc., that I'm not sure I'm going to give this a chance. But if enough people tell me this season kicked ass, I may give it a shot.
I am also slightly biased because I saw the intro before the series and it looked super fucking corny. I know that's no reason not to watch a show, but again, with limited entertainment hours, I want to spend them well.
I hope those who are enjoying it continue to, and I hope it turns awesome and everyone makes me watch it!
As others have said on this thread, the show certainly SEEMS like they're trying to get us to think this character is Gandalf, for all of the obvious (and some not so obvious) reasons.
But the main argument against him being Gandalf (or any of the wizards aka Istari) is that they didn't get to Middle Earth until the Third Age.
I think that it would be very gimmicky to make him NOT Gandalf at this point. Almost like the writers would be saying through the show "AHA! We fooled all of you, and look how clever we are!"
But I'd also like to think this show is above that kind of gimmickry.
My theory is that GANDALF/MITHRANDIR and the other wizards will not show up until the Third Age. But the wizards go by many names. If you remember, in both the Jackson movies and the LOTR books, when Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White it takes a little while for him to remember that Gandalf was his name and return to something like his old personality. In other words, after his battle with the balrog, because he was a maia sent by the valar (and not a regular mortal man), Gandalf's reset button was essentially pressed and we see him at the late stages of his "rebuffering" when he reappears in Fangorn Forest.
So this guy, Meteor Man, could be OLORIN, which is Gandalf's oldest name. Perhaps he was sent by the Valar as a kind of one man expeditionary force, and we're meeting him at his earliest download stage. All of the input he's getting so far seems to be laying the groundwork for what will eventually amount to Gandalf.
But for this show, my guess is that he will be Olorin, which is a kinda cheap-but-OK-I-see-what-you-did-there move. The books did not say this [definitively] didn't happen, but they definitely didn't say that it did. It's a workaround and a bit of a reach.
Anyway, he will develop into something similar to a proto-Gandalf, and then my guess is at some point in the show he dies in a heroic way, his spirit returns to the Valar and reports all that has transpired, the Valar will be alerted to the return of Sauron, and they will then send the five wizards to Middle Earth in the Third Age.
Then, of course, as the returned Gandalf develops, all of the people and experiences he was shaped by in his previous incarnation in the Second Age will sort of be baked in to his Third Age incarnation's personality.
My theory only, very much of a reach, but so far it holds up. We'll see.
Generally, with each passing episode, I've decided I like it. A lot. I'm glad there's Middle Earth on TV right now, and I hope this show gets the five seasons it's aiming for.
With that said, with each passing episode there have been some lore-busting things that are very WTF-worthy (I hate the whole "origin of mithril" thing, the whole "the elves will be toast by springtime unless we get the mithril" thing, the inexplicable ability of Numenorean ships to hold way more horses, soldiers, and crew than they look like they should, and the ever-flexible number of Numenoreans who have traveled to Middle Earth). I think these are all self inflicted wounds that could have been avoided or written or designed better.
So far, Galadriel is not a very likable character. I don't blame Morfydd Clark for that. I think she's doing a find job with the script she's been given. But I think her character is just...ehh...fine, I guess.
I have really come to look forward to the Durin and Harfoot storylines, along with all of the characters involved in them. Frankly, I give a lot of credit to the show for making them all interesting enough to make their storylines compelling enough to stay interested in.
On the other hand, the Bronwyn/Arondir/Theo/Adar storyline so far has felt like pulling teeth. I find it pedantic, predictable, highly derivative (mostly of the Jackson films), forced at times, plodding at others, and rife with characters and plot points I just don't buy.
With all of that said, it can happen in a show where the viewer prefers some storylines and characters over others, and while I don't foresee any major "resets" in coming seasons, I do think the writing will evolve and tighten up as the show progresses, so I'm fairly optimistic that the weaker points will get stronger and the strong points will remain strong.
compared this to GOT season 1. You can be captivating and a slow burn at same time.
Been waiting for this review….crazy Amazon has so much money to burn they can put out this derivative, shallow, poorly written, and poorly acted garbage. Pretty much the disappointment of the year for me. Link - ( New Window )
RE: Man I really tried but this was terrible. I can’t believe someone
compared this to GOT season 1. You can be captivating and a slow burn at same time.
Been waiting for this review….crazy Amazon has so much money to burn they can put out this derivative, shallow, poorly written, and poorly acted garbage. Pretty much the disappointment of the year for me. Link - ( New Window )
Many disagree with you.
RE: RE: Man I really tried but this was terrible. I can’t believe someone
compared this to GOT season 1. You can be captivating and a slow burn at same time.
Been waiting for this review….crazy Amazon has so much money to burn they can put out this derivative, shallow, poorly written, and poorly acted garbage. Pretty much the disappointment of the year for me. Link - ( New Window )
Many disagree with you.
On a planet of 6 billion that’s likely. But just go to the user reviews on IMDB that aren’t corporate shill bots or people that brigaded before it came out and the majority of people that have seen it think it’s wholly underwhelming at best.
Amazon didn’t even bother paying for bots to keep the score at 8 or above like it did for the first few weeks.
You even see the media reviews saying how much the show sucks now that’s it’s “safe” and they won’t get backlash for being misogynistic or racist or whatever.
It’s wild they committed all this money and seasons to a total flop (having a hard time believing the numbers are there unless you have Tolkien fans gutting it out)
people on this thread enjoy it. It’s fine that you don’t but don’t care to read paragraphs and paragraphs on why people shouldn’t like it. Let people watch and make their own conclusion.
people on this thread enjoy it. It’s fine that you don’t but don’t care to read paragraphs and paragraphs on why people shouldn’t like it. Let people watch and make their own conclusion.
In what world did I say people shouldn't like it? People are free to like whatever they want. I'm personally confused as to the appeal, but whatever. And I came here to discuss it because it's about a high profile expensive show that has come out in a long time and it's starting to get discussed openly as a flop now that it's safe to do so. Apparently they did the same thing to Wheel of Time (no idea what the books were about, but gave it a watch and gave up after three episodes because it suffers from literally the same exact problems as ROP - and looks eerily similar).
I re-watched Lord of the Rings with the wife while waiting for the new episodes (she had never seen them) and I have to admit they don't hold up as well as I'd thought. I guess that's to be expected for 20 year old movies, but after Fellowship I found myself pretty bored at times.
I think the Middle Earth of RoP is more interesting: the world building is better and the visuals are impressive (one would hope after the gobs of money they spent on it).
My main complaint is how they're trying too hard with the girl power aspect of Galadriel. First off, age difference aside, it seems like a major retcon of her character. Secondly it just looks absurd at times, like when her little platoon of subordinates (only men of course) are only there to give her a ramp to leap off of and slay trolls. I think they could have played up Galadriel's wits a bit more instead of making her this physical brute who tries to smash her way through everything.
All in all I like the three narratives and haven't had any issues following them.
It's harder to pull off with a high fantasy story that's not as R rated. I prefer the slow build up because it leads to a better pay off.
But I agree that the dialogue is not great, and it is a little scattered, especially if you don't know the source material (i.e. if you haven't read the Silmarilion or the Return of the King appendices).
But I liked last week's episode the best so far (haven't seen today's). I think it will steadily improve.
I also thought it might be Radogast? I don't recall too much of his backstory from the books, but it would seemingly fit that he falls in with the Harfoots.
I'm 4 episodes in, enjoying it so far. I'd agree with the 'good, not great' sentiment, but as a fan of the books, I not too hung up on any liberties they're taking so far with the characters' stories. I didn't love the Galadriel story at first, but the way they played out how she rallied Numenor to join her was pretty well done
Showing Durin and the Dwarves discovering mithril...and, as we know, eventually something worse was well done too, IMO
But a friend who is a huge Tolkien geek reminded me that that was in the beginning of the Third Age.
Still, the talking with fireflies is very Gandalf-like, isn't it? And befriending the future Hobbits?
My guess is that the writers are putting some events and characters in the span of a few years that took place over centuries to make the story more manageable.
For example, originally Sauron helped Celibrimbor make the rings of power about 1500 years before the Numenoreans of Miriel's rein.
But a friend who is a huge Tolkien geek reminded me that that was in the beginning of the Third Age.
Still, the talking with fireflies is very Gandalf-like, isn't it? And befriending the future Hobbits?
My guess is that the writers are putting some events and characters in the span of a few years that took place over centuries to make the story more manageable.
Gandalf was my guess as well.
Looking forward to getting into it tho.
.
Yep, same with Marvel, Star Wars, etc.
For All Mankind is really entertaining.
He is not Gandalf. Hr is likely one of the blue wizards that were active during the second age when Gandalf was not.
It's harder to pull off with a high fantasy story that's not as R rated. I prefer the slow build up because it leads to a better pay off.
I think a big difference is a ton of people read Game of Thrones versus the source material here. And while I have not watched this show, the acting in GoT season 1 was superb.
I read the Hobbit and the original 3 novels, and watched the 3 movies. There is so much good tv to watch, books to read, terrible Giants teams to follow, etc., that I'm not sure I'm going to give this a chance. But if enough people tell me this season kicked ass, I may give it a shot.
I am also slightly biased because I saw the intro before the series and it looked super fucking corny. I know that's no reason not to watch a show, but again, with limited entertainment hours, I want to spend them well.
I hope those who are enjoying it continue to, and I hope it turns awesome and everyone makes me watch it!
But the main argument against him being Gandalf (or any of the wizards aka Istari) is that they didn't get to Middle Earth until the Third Age.
I think that it would be very gimmicky to make him NOT Gandalf at this point. Almost like the writers would be saying through the show "AHA! We fooled all of you, and look how clever we are!"
But I'd also like to think this show is above that kind of gimmickry.
My theory is that GANDALF/MITHRANDIR and the other wizards will not show up until the Third Age. But the wizards go by many names. If you remember, in both the Jackson movies and the LOTR books, when Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White it takes a little while for him to remember that Gandalf was his name and return to something like his old personality. In other words, after his battle with the balrog, because he was a maia sent by the valar (and not a regular mortal man), Gandalf's reset button was essentially pressed and we see him at the late stages of his "rebuffering" when he reappears in Fangorn Forest.
So this guy, Meteor Man, could be OLORIN, which is Gandalf's oldest name. Perhaps he was sent by the Valar as a kind of one man expeditionary force, and we're meeting him at his earliest download stage. All of the input he's getting so far seems to be laying the groundwork for what will eventually amount to Gandalf.
But for this show, my guess is that he will be Olorin, which is a kinda cheap-but-OK-I-see-what-you-did-there move. The books did not say this [definitively] didn't happen, but they definitely didn't say that it did. It's a workaround and a bit of a reach.
Anyway, he will develop into something similar to a proto-Gandalf, and then my guess is at some point in the show he dies in a heroic way, his spirit returns to the Valar and reports all that has transpired, the Valar will be alerted to the return of Sauron, and they will then send the five wizards to Middle Earth in the Third Age.
Then, of course, as the returned Gandalf develops, all of the people and experiences he was shaped by in his previous incarnation in the Second Age will sort of be baked in to his Third Age incarnation's personality.
My theory only, very much of a reach, but so far it holds up. We'll see.
With that said, with each passing episode there have been some lore-busting things that are very WTF-worthy (I hate the whole "origin of mithril" thing, the whole "the elves will be toast by springtime unless we get the mithril" thing, the inexplicable ability of Numenorean ships to hold way more horses, soldiers, and crew than they look like they should, and the ever-flexible number of Numenoreans who have traveled to Middle Earth). I think these are all self inflicted wounds that could have been avoided or written or designed better.
So far, Galadriel is not a very likable character. I don't blame Morfydd Clark for that. I think she's doing a find job with the script she's been given. But I think her character is just...ehh...fine, I guess.
I have really come to look forward to the Durin and Harfoot storylines, along with all of the characters involved in them. Frankly, I give a lot of credit to the show for making them all interesting enough to make their storylines compelling enough to stay interested in.
On the other hand, the Bronwyn/Arondir/Theo/Adar storyline so far has felt like pulling teeth. I find it pedantic, predictable, highly derivative (mostly of the Jackson films), forced at times, plodding at others, and rife with characters and plot points I just don't buy.
With all of that said, it can happen in a show where the viewer prefers some storylines and characters over others, and while I don't foresee any major "resets" in coming seasons, I do think the writing will evolve and tighten up as the show progresses, so I'm fairly optimistic that the weaker points will get stronger and the strong points will remain strong.
But not even the very wise can see all ends.
I’m going to take your advice and go back to it. I bailed after 3 episodes
Been waiting for this review….crazy Amazon has so much money to burn they can put out this derivative, shallow, poorly written, and poorly acted garbage. Pretty much the disappointment of the year for me.
Link - ( New Window )
Been waiting for this review….crazy Amazon has so much money to burn they can put out this derivative, shallow, poorly written, and poorly acted garbage. Pretty much the disappointment of the year for me. Link - ( New Window )
Many disagree with you.
Quote:
compared this to GOT season 1. You can be captivating and a slow burn at same time.
Been waiting for this review….crazy Amazon has so much money to burn they can put out this derivative, shallow, poorly written, and poorly acted garbage. Pretty much the disappointment of the year for me. Link - ( New Window )
Many disagree with you.
On a planet of 6 billion that’s likely. But just go to the user reviews on IMDB that aren’t corporate shill bots or people that brigaded before it came out and the majority of people that have seen it think it’s wholly underwhelming at best.
Amazon didn’t even bother paying for bots to keep the score at 8 or above like it did for the first few weeks.
You even see the media reviews saying how much the show sucks now that’s it’s “safe” and they won’t get backlash for being misogynistic or racist or whatever.
It’s wild they committed all this money and seasons to a total flop (having a hard time believing the numbers are there unless you have Tolkien fans gutting it out)
In what world did I say people shouldn't like it? People are free to like whatever they want. I'm personally confused as to the appeal, but whatever. And I came here to discuss it because it's about a high profile expensive show that has come out in a long time and it's starting to get discussed openly as a flop now that it's safe to do so. Apparently they did the same thing to Wheel of Time (no idea what the books were about, but gave it a watch and gave up after three episodes because it suffers from literally the same exact problems as ROP - and looks eerily similar).