real issue here is that Daboll/Kafka can't do what we saw in the preseason... quick, short passes to Robinson, Toney, Shepard and having Robinson, Toney, and Saquon doing a lot of damage after the catch.
Now defenses can just play aggressive man coverage against the WRs with no fear that they are going to be beat.
I would expect Slayton to move up the depth chart soon. They need to stretch the field.
I can’t figure out why Slayton hasn’t been used more - it doesn’t make sense.
Because he is not good.
If all you need is speed to be a WR then track stars in great numbers would become one after being trained a short time.
Slayton is just another poor answer to a bad situation.
I really dont.
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
He has been elevated for Sunday’s game. I hope he bypasses Sills quickly. When his hamstrings and other body parts cooperate, Johnson is a legitimate NFL talent, though obviously not a special one. That’s more than I can say for Sills - now or probably ever.
RE: If Defenses just played a simple 5-man zone against our 3 WR & 1 TE
look and continued to pound the Giants with 7 guys coming in hard after Daniel Jones, isn't it game over? Who makes a play?
Don't we really need to start mixing in misdirectio and far more screen plays to Barkley, Bellinger and the occassional WR to keep Defenses from running a jail-break on us?
Asking guys who know how Defenses are designed.
They’d be getting five yard penalties on every play for having 12 men on defense …
I really dont.
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
all of those can be true AND Jones can also be a mediocre QB. For many here, however, those facts are used to hand wave away every bad play, game, and season for DJ.
It's year 4, can't just go "this one doesn't really count" anymore
I really dont.
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
They DO think Football is a one team sport. The poster BW even flat out told me so. He old me "because the rules changed." The poster thinks because a few rules changed "ALL THE RULES CHANGED" and/or "All the other rules don't matter anymore."
The Haters are blinded by several simple facts one is - "The QB is the most important position on the field" (which is a fact) that they've twisted this to "IT IS THE SOLE position on the football field."
==================
The next idiotic assumption they make is that they take a terrific QB. and even in some bizarre cases they take an all-time great QB (like Brady or Rodgers), and then they make comments or create threads that Jones can't do what Brady or Rodgers or Burrow can do when they didn't have much so it must mean "Jones sucks." No shit! Jones can't be Brady or Rodgers - thanks for that AMAZING insight!!!
Or when doing the comparison they created they wont come out and say Jones sucks but they'll just refuse to give him a positive comment despite Jones playing pretty well. Instead use the comparison as a dig such as Burrow did well without an OLINE. Well again "No Shit!" Burrow is a tremendous QB better than Jones. So Jones sucks because he isn't Burrow? And they won't mention Burrow had tremendous Wide Receivers and last year that had a terrific RB that actually played a full season.
I really dont.
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
all of those can be true AND Jones can also be a mediocre QB. For many here, however, those facts are used to hand wave away every bad play, game, and season for DJ.
It's year 4, can't just go "this one doesn't really count" anymore
You've over-simplified the argument to fit your twisted narrative. Many of us are just agreeing what Sy has said. The problem is that you Jones haters either want to pretend like
1-- SY didn't say it
2-- Too chickenshit to confront him on the postage reviews
3-- Or pretend in some discussion that you are a scout. I still recall Producer calling himself "A Cosell disciple."
So same question from another thread, just so we’re all debating on transparency:
1) Do you believe Daniel Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How many years and dollars should the Giants bet on that
Answer each of these questions: That would lead to an answer to question 2. But you have to answer all 3 questions which would lead you to an eventual answer to question 2.
1-- DO you believe Foles was a championship QB?
2--- Do you believe Jimmy G was a championship QB?
3-- Do you believe Tannehill was a championship QB?
I really dont.
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
all of those can be true AND Jones can also be a mediocre QB. For many here, however, those facts are used to hand wave away every bad play, game, and season for DJ.
It's year 4, can't just go "this one doesn't really count" anymore
You've over-simplified the argument to fit your twisted narrative. Many of us are just agreeing what Sy has said. The problem is that you Jones haters either want to pretend like
1-- SY didn't say it
2-- Too chickenshit to confront him on the postage reviews
3-- Or pretend in some discussion that you are a scout. I still recall Producer calling himself "A Cosell disciple."
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
Answer each of these questions: That would lead to an answer to question 2. But you have to answer all 3 questions which would lead you to an eventual answer to question 2.
1-- DO you believe Foles was a championship QB?
2--- Do you believe Jimmy G was a championship QB?
3-- Do you believe Tannehill was a championship QB?
I’m happy to answer your questions, I suspect you don’t have the balls to answer mine.
1) Foles - No, I was wrong
2) Garoppolo - No, seems I was right
3) Tannehill - Maybe
Nick Foles had an improbable run as a late season injury replacement. That’s akin to Tyrod Taylor stepping in and leading the Giants to a Super Bowl. Bad comparison to Jones, unless you think he’ll be the backup in a few years to a top 5 pick.
Garopollo has had 2 real opportunities and proven he’s not.
Tannehill is in a pretty good window, and the returns are looking bad.
So now back to my questions:
1) Do you believe Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How much and how many years should the Giants be on that
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
I've said for a couple years that Jones ceiling is a poor copy of Goff. With everything perfect around him he may get carried deep in the playoffs, but he's not going to be the "why". And now at this point the Giants also need to weigh paying him on a 2nd contract to maybe continue to develop. IMO the cost-benfefit doesn't work out in Jones favor
Answer each of these questions: That would lead to an answer to question 2. But you have to answer all 3 questions which would lead you to an eventual answer to question 2.
1-- DO you believe Foles was a championship QB?
2--- Do you believe Jimmy G was a championship QB?
3-- Do you believe Tannehill was a championship QB?
I’m happy to answer your questions, I suspect you don’t have the balls to answer mine.
1) Foles - No, I was wrong
2) Garoppolo - No, seems I was right
3) Tannehill - Maybe
Nick Foles had an improbable run as a late season injury replacement. That’s akin to Tyrod Taylor stepping in and leading the Giants to a Super Bowl. Bad comparison to Jones, unless you think he’ll be the backup in a few years to a top 5 pick.
Garopollo has had 2 real opportunities and proven he’s not.
Tannehill is in a pretty good window, and the returns are looking bad.
So now back to my questions:
1) Do you believe Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How much and how many years should the Giants be on that
I needed you to answer the questions first. Okay now I'll answer yours. No I don't think he is a championship QB.
But I think with the right ammunition behind him he cna get to a championship game.
So until I find the championship QB, why get rid of him unless you find someone better?
***** While Jimmy G isn't a championship QB, at least he helped them get to Super Bowl and another time to NFC Championship game. You wouldn't take that?????
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
I've said for a couple years that Jones ceiling is a poor copy of Goff. With everything perfect around him he may get carried deep in the playoffs, but he's not going to be the "why". And now at this point the Giants also need to weigh paying him on a 2nd contract to maybe continue to develop. IMO the cost-benfefit doesn't work out in Jones favor
If you can't find anyone better then why not just give him a 1 year deal? The Giants are not winning a championship next year either.
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
Doyou think we drafted because they really liked him and wanted multiple similar threats for a YAC short passing attack, OR, do you think they drafted him to hedge their bets on KT89? If the letter, I find it both a mistake on this regime and a highlight of the issues with the last one. I am hoping for the former abd do think it's possible. I like his talent, regardless of what happens with KT89. But, it would sure be nice for him to get on the field and show us.
The reason you shed him without having a championship-level QB in hand is because you have to pay him more to keep him going forward. And that fact isn't helping in buidling the rest of a championship-level roster.
If Jones will accept his current pay/slight increase to hang around as a backup while Schoen evaluates & acquires what he hopes is a championship-level QB, then that works.
Except of course he already signed Taylor to do that next year...
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
I've said for a couple years that Jones ceiling is a poor copy of Goff. With everything perfect around him he may get carried deep in the playoffs, but he's not going to be the "why". And now at this point the Giants also need to weigh paying him on a 2nd contract to maybe continue to develop. IMO the cost-benfefit doesn't work out in Jones favor
If you can't find anyone better then why not just give him a 1 year deal? The Giants are not winning a championship next year either.
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
Even a 1 year commitment would be too much imo. We have a bridge QB already on the roster with TT, so either draft a QB or just start Taylor
It is. DJ doesn’t have the ability to will receivers open like the elite QBs do.
This is what I am talking about.
Moronic posts like you made comparing Jones to elite QB"s.
SO Foles was elite? Jimmy G and Tannehill and Goff all get to super bowl or one round before it - and because they aren't elite either the team should've just given up to start the season or not traded for Tanehill because only elites are allowed?????????
But I think with the right ammunition behind him he cna get to a championship game.
So until I find the championship QB, why get rid of him unless you find someone better?
***** While Jimmy G isn't a championship QB, at least he helped them get to Super Bowl and another time to NFC Championship game. You wouldn't take that?????
So the answer to the question is Jones a championship-level QB. Your answer is no, his ceiling with a loaded offense is Jimmy Garoppolo.
So what’s your answer to the very simple question: how many dollars and years should the Giants bet on him?
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
Even a 1 year commitment would be too much imo. We have a bridge QB already on the roster with TT, so either draft a QB or just start Taylor
Well again you are going away from what SY has just recently said. More on that:
------------------------
But first off I think it completely nuts to not try to start a season with your best unless you think Giants are in complete rebuild mode. If that is the case, you have given up on this year completely if they win??????????
What about if they win? They are 3-1 and you would dump Jones and go with Taylor?
=====================
Anyhow this is what SY recently said:
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
=========================
So reading this coming from a pro scout that is loves the Giants vs your opinion of next year you deliberately don’t want to potentially play your best QB that you could’ve signed for 1 year in favor of a tank--
so taking a step back comparing the tow ideas one forma pro scout vs yours of tanking --
and yet posters like you ridicule is for agreeing with the pro scout????
Are you kidding?????????
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't get it
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
Even a 1 year commitment would be too much imo. We have a bridge QB already on the roster with TT, so either draft a QB or just start Taylor
Well again you are going away from what SY has just recently said. More on that:
------------------------
But first off I think it completely nuts to not try to start a season with your best unless you think Giants are in complete rebuild mode. If that is the case, you have given up on this year completely if they win??????????
What about if they win? They are 3-1 and you would dump Jones and go with Taylor?
=====================
Anyhow this is what SY recently said:
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
=========================
So reading this coming from a pro scout that is loves the Giants vs your opinion of next year you deliberately don’t want to potentially play your best QB that you could’ve signed for 1 year in favor of a tank--
so taking a step back comparing the tow ideas one forma pro scout vs yours of tanking --
and yet posters like you ridicule is for agreeing with the pro scout????
Are you kidding?????????
I've agreed that Jones played well on Monday, but at this point in his career it was like putting $2 worth of gas in an empty tank: didn't move the needle much
The part I find ridiculous is the constant and consistent ignoring of all the bad and going "see Jones actually is good!"
Other than than Mrs. Lincoln, didn't you enjoy the play?
But I think with the right ammunition behind him he cna get to a championship game.
So until I find the championship QB, why get rid of him unless you find someone better?
***** While Jimmy G isn't a championship QB, at least he helped them get to Super Bowl and another time to NFC Championship game. You wouldn't take that?????
So the answer to the question is Jones a championship-level QB. Your answer is no, his ceiling with a loaded offense is Jimmy Garoppolo.
So what’s your answer to the very simple question: how many dollars and years should the Giants bet on him?
That's not my answer. Can you at least pretend to be fair if you are going to reply?
So I have ot ask you - was Tennessee a loaded roster?
You want to frame this a certain way, don’t you? That was my point of your posts. You've now deliberately avoided Tannehill, haven’t you?
As long as you acknowledge I can get to AT LEAST the NFC Finals with a non-loaded roster - which shows you are being fair in our discussion - then I can easily answer your question. Please acknowledge.
=============
And when I do answer your question my assumption will be that the Giants are not playoff caliber next year with Taylor nor is there much they would love in FA at this moment unless you want me to consider something different/ different factors?
Because in order to determine how much he is going to make and how many years, I have to know the expectation of the Giants team, correct?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't get it
I've agreed that Jones played well on Monday, but at this point in his career it was like putting $2 worth of gas in an empty tank: didn't move the needle much
The part I find ridiculous is the constant and consistent ignoring of all the bad and going "see Jones actually is good!"
Other than than Mrs. Lincoln, didn't you enjoy the play?
So you agree with most of us that if Jones plays more like he did on Monday night, then he would probably be worth signing, right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't get it
I've agreed that Jones played well on Monday, but at this point in his career it was like putting $2 worth of gas in an empty tank: didn't move the needle much
The part I find ridiculous is the constant and consistent ignoring of all the bad and going "see Jones actually is good!"
Other than than Mrs. Lincoln, didn't you enjoy the play?
So you agree with most of us that if Jones plays more like he did on Monday night, then he would probably be worth signing, right?
No, my criteria for extending Jones was the QB equivalent of Aaron Judges season. Monday was good, but not that good.
I also don't expect Jones to play like that on a consistent basis.
That's not my answer. Can you at least pretend to be fair if you are going to reply?
You’re right, I shouldn’t put words in your mouth. I was trying to surmise an answer since you don’t have the balls to answer the simple question directly.
Let’s try again:
Is Jones a championship-level QB? Yes or No
How many years and dollars should the Giants extend him to find out: Years/Dollars
And just for your reference, I’m not interested in what other teams have done with other players. That’s not particularly relevant to my question.
That's not my answer. Can you at least pretend to be fair if you are going to reply?
You’re right, I shouldn’t put words in your mouth. I was trying to surmise an answer since you don’t have the balls to answer the simple question directly.
Let’s try again:
Is Jones a championship-level QB? Yes or No
How many years and dollars should the Giants extend him to find out: Years/Dollars
And just for your reference, I’m not interested in what other teams have done with other players. That’s not particularly relevant to my question.
Again oyu are trying to fight with me hahahahahaha - c'mon.
Read my post to you at 11:02 am. What does it say about Jones being a championship QB? So what's this "Let's try again stuff?" hahahahaha c'mon.
------------------------
And in regards to question 2- ifI do answer your question my assumption will be that the Giants are not playoff caliber next year with Taylor nor is there much they would love in FA at this moment unless you want me to consider something different/ different factors?
Because in order to determine how much he is going to make and how many years, I have to know the expectation of the Giants team, correct?
It's simple - when you ask about next year there has to be parameters. Above are my assumptions if okay with you I can give you a number and years.
would be as a passenger, a game manager along for the ride on a team with great defense and a strong running game. Why would you pay much for that?
I don';t think Sy agrees with your opinion at this moment.
Let me quote SY - he says "HE CAN DO IT." He has said that.
Further sy has said after the latest game:
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
So the Giants should spend 31.5M of their 49.6M effective cap space in 2023 on a 1 year contract, for a quarterback you don’t believe can ever win a Super Bowl?
First I don’t know why that was such a hard set of questions to respond to, but second at least you answered. I think that’s bananas, but I respect you for at least taking a stance.
So the Giants should spend 31.5M of their 49.6M effective cap space in 2023 on a 1 year contract, for a quarterback you don’t believe can ever win a Super Bowl?
First I don’t know why that was such a hard set of questions to respond to, but second at least you answered. I think that’s bananas, but I respect you for at least taking a stance.
You've acknowledged that you basically misrepresented my post by putting words in my mouth and I'm basically in alignment with SY with what he is saying after the Dallas game and you are calling my opinion bananas?
I have to do with poster like you because you do misrepresent posts when it comes to Jones. You even acknowledged your misrepresentation to me. SO ofc I have to ask you a lot of other questions.
The words I put in your mouth, was that Jones’s ceiling was similar to Garoppolo. Is that the claim that offends your sensibilities? Just so we’re both crystal clear. You can answer that with a simple yes or no.
The words I put in your mouth, was that Jones’s ceiling was similar to Garoppolo. Is that the claim that offends your sensibilities? Just so we’re both crystal clear. You can answer that with a simple yes or no.
The words you put in my mouth misrepresented my post.
And you're right with posters like you it' can't be a simple yes or no because you tend to misrepresent posts.
And again I love how you called my opinion bananas and yet I' appear to be more in alignment with SY while you feel it’s okay to misrepresent posts.
Just to be clear so I don’t misrepresent your words ever again. The sentiment I misrepresented was when I said you believe Jones’s ceiling is the same as Garoppolo. Again a simple yes or no should do it.
Just to be clear so I don’t misrepresent your words ever again. The sentiment I misrepresented was when I said you believe Jones’s ceiling is the same as Garoppolo. Again a simple yes or no should do it.
Again I can't give posts like you a simple yes or no sometimes. Because you do do it.
The only sentiment I filled in any blank on, was surmising you thought Jones’s ceiling was near Garoppolo. I apologize if that’s not true.
Can I ask not to start a fight? But if Jones played like he did in Dallas, and QB is the most important position on the Football Filed, why wouldn't you want to give him a 1 year deal?
What's the downside to a 1 year deal in which the Giants are not a Super Bowl contender anyway?
I’m all for a one year deal. I’m probably among a handful of posters who thought the Giants should strongly consider picking up his option.
I think 31.5M is a lot of money to sink into a guy you’re not going to invest in. It’s bad resource allocation.
If Jones proves he can be a super game manager + a dual threat, I think there is a long term deal out there for him. Either in NY or elsewhere.
My biggest concern with Jones is ceiling. I think the odds of paying an OK QB good money, and having enough to surround him with a great team, is as low as finding a franchise guy in the first round.
My desire to move on from Jones is simply about math and odds.
I hope we put Kenny Golladay on IR and sign Isaiah Hodgins off of the
I’m all for a one year deal. I’m probably among a handful of posters who thought the Giants should strongly consider picking up his option.
I think 31.5M is a lot of money to sink into a guy you’re not going to invest in. It’s bad resource allocation.
If Jones proves he can be a super game manager + a dual threat, I think there is a long term deal out there for him. Either in NY or elsewhere.
My biggest concern with Jones is ceiling. I think the odds of paying an OK QB good money, and having enough to surround him with a great team, is as low as finding a franchise guy in the first round.
My desire to move on from Jones is simply about math and odds.
Okay so it looks like we are not arguing? I thought you blasted me for 1 year? Or are you blasting me for sign him for 1 year but don't FT him? Simple math though long term I agree with you. Heck, he got hurt again today.
And if he's is good this year and is best possible option, 1 year not so bad.
RE: I hope we put Kenny Golladay on IR and sign Isaiah Hodgins off of the
Quote:
real issue here is that Daboll/Kafka can't do what we saw in the preseason... quick, short passes to Robinson, Toney, Shepard and having Robinson, Toney, and Saquon doing a lot of damage after the catch.
Now defenses can just play aggressive man coverage against the WRs with no fear that they are going to be beat.
I would expect Slayton to move up the depth chart soon. They need to stretch the field.
I can’t figure out why Slayton hasn’t been used more - it doesn’t make sense.
Because he is not good.
If all you need is speed to be a WR then track stars in great numbers would become one after being trained a short time.
Slayton is just another poor answer to a bad situation.
Slayton is a downfield guy. They can't block it for long-developing plays. They need guys who can get open in tight space.
There is always one excuse or another for Jones being shit. This year it's the receivers.
Quote:
.
There is always one excuse or another for Jones being shit. This year it's the receivers.
Mom finally let you use the computer?
I guess you missed last year?
And the year before?
A Professional Scout SY called this group of WR's "JV High school," and yet you aren't bright enough to understand what that means?
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
Don't we really need to start mixing in misdirectio and far more screen plays to Barkley, Bellinger and the occassional WR to keep Defenses from running a jail-break on us?
Asking guys who know how Defenses are designed.
They’d be getting five yard penalties on every play for having 12 men on defense …
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
all of those can be true AND Jones can also be a mediocre QB. For many here, however, those facts are used to hand wave away every bad play, game, and season for DJ.
It's year 4, can't just go "this one doesn't really count" anymore
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
They DO think Football is a one team sport. The poster BW even flat out told me so. He old me "because the rules changed." The poster thinks because a few rules changed "ALL THE RULES CHANGED" and/or "All the other rules don't matter anymore."
The Haters are blinded by several simple facts one is - "The QB is the most important position on the field" (which is a fact) that they've twisted this to "IT IS THE SOLE position on the football field."
==================
The next idiotic assumption they make is that they take a terrific QB. and even in some bizarre cases they take an all-time great QB (like Brady or Rodgers), and then they make comments or create threads that Jones can't do what Brady or Rodgers or Burrow can do when they didn't have much so it must mean "Jones sucks." No shit! Jones can't be Brady or Rodgers - thanks for that AMAZING insight!!!
Or when doing the comparison they created they wont come out and say Jones sucks but they'll just refuse to give him a positive comment despite Jones playing pretty well. Instead use the comparison as a dig such as Burrow did well without an OLINE. Well again "No Shit!" Burrow is a tremendous QB better than Jones. So Jones sucks because he isn't Burrow? And they won't mention Burrow had tremendous Wide Receivers and last year that had a terrific RB that actually played a full season.
1) Do you believe Daniel Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How many years and dollars should the Giants bet on that
Quote:
I really dont.
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
all of those can be true AND Jones can also be a mediocre QB. For many here, however, those facts are used to hand wave away every bad play, game, and season for DJ.
It's year 4, can't just go "this one doesn't really count" anymore
You've over-simplified the argument to fit your twisted narrative. Many of us are just agreeing what Sy has said. The problem is that you Jones haters either want to pretend like
1-- SY didn't say it
2-- Too chickenshit to confront him on the postage reviews
3-- Or pretend in some discussion that you are a scout. I still recall Producer calling himself "A Cosell disciple."
1) Do you believe Daniel Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How many years and dollars should the Giants bet on that
Answer each of these questions: That would lead to an answer to question 2. But you have to answer all 3 questions which would lead you to an eventual answer to question 2.
1-- DO you believe Foles was a championship QB?
2--- Do you believe Jimmy G was a championship QB?
3-- Do you believe Tannehill was a championship QB?
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In comment 15840046 Blu4ever said:
Quote:
I really dont.
Fact not Excuse... The man is in his 3rd system in 4 years....
F.N.E. He's had horrible coaching and schemes
F.N.E. For those years he's had horrible offensive lines.
F.N.E. his tight end was named Evan
F.N.E. HE has a poor group of wide receivers.
To label those inarguable "excuses" simply means that the poster thinks they dont matter. The "ultimate team sport" is simply a concept that is beyond a limited and closed intellect.
all of those can be true AND Jones can also be a mediocre QB. For many here, however, those facts are used to hand wave away every bad play, game, and season for DJ.
It's year 4, can't just go "this one doesn't really count" anymore
You've over-simplified the argument to fit your twisted narrative. Many of us are just agreeing what Sy has said. The problem is that you Jones haters either want to pretend like
1-- SY didn't say it
2-- Too chickenshit to confront him on the postage reviews
3-- Or pretend in some discussion that you are a scout. I still recall Producer calling himself "A Cosell disciple."
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Quote:
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
1-- DO you believe Foles was a championship QB?
2--- Do you believe Jimmy G was a championship QB?
3-- Do you believe Tannehill was a championship QB?
I’m happy to answer your questions, I suspect you don’t have the balls to answer mine.
1) Foles - No, I was wrong
2) Garoppolo - No, seems I was right
3) Tannehill - Maybe
Nick Foles had an improbable run as a late season injury replacement. That’s akin to Tyrod Taylor stepping in and leading the Giants to a Super Bowl. Bad comparison to Jones, unless you think he’ll be the backup in a few years to a top 5 pick.
Garopollo has had 2 real opportunities and proven he’s not.
Tannehill is in a pretty good window, and the returns are looking bad.
So now back to my questions:
1) Do you believe Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How much and how many years should the Giants be on that
Quote:
In comment 15840488 giantstock said:
Quote:
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
I've said for a couple years that Jones ceiling is a poor copy of Goff. With everything perfect around him he may get carried deep in the playoffs, but he's not going to be the "why". And now at this point the Giants also need to weigh paying him on a 2nd contract to maybe continue to develop. IMO the cost-benfefit doesn't work out in Jones favor
Quote:
Answer each of these questions: That would lead to an answer to question 2. But you have to answer all 3 questions which would lead you to an eventual answer to question 2.
1-- DO you believe Foles was a championship QB?
2--- Do you believe Jimmy G was a championship QB?
3-- Do you believe Tannehill was a championship QB?
I’m happy to answer your questions, I suspect you don’t have the balls to answer mine.
1) Foles - No, I was wrong
2) Garoppolo - No, seems I was right
3) Tannehill - Maybe
Nick Foles had an improbable run as a late season injury replacement. That’s akin to Tyrod Taylor stepping in and leading the Giants to a Super Bowl. Bad comparison to Jones, unless you think he’ll be the backup in a few years to a top 5 pick.
Garopollo has had 2 real opportunities and proven he’s not.
Tannehill is in a pretty good window, and the returns are looking bad.
So now back to my questions:
1) Do you believe Jones is a championship-level QB
2) How much and how many years should the Giants be on that
I needed you to answer the questions first. Okay now I'll answer yours. No I don't think he is a championship QB.
But I think with the right ammunition behind him he cna get to a championship game.
So until I find the championship QB, why get rid of him unless you find someone better?
***** While Jimmy G isn't a championship QB, at least he helped them get to Super Bowl and another time to NFC Championship game. You wouldn't take that?????
It is. DJ doesn’t have the ability to will receivers open like the elite QBs do.
Quote:
In comment 15840494 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 15840488 giantstock said:
Quote:
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
I've said for a couple years that Jones ceiling is a poor copy of Goff. With everything perfect around him he may get carried deep in the playoffs, but he's not going to be the "why". And now at this point the Giants also need to weigh paying him on a 2nd contract to maybe continue to develop. IMO the cost-benfefit doesn't work out in Jones favor
If you can't find anyone better then why not just give him a 1 year deal? The Giants are not winning a championship next year either.
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
If Jones will accept his current pay/slight increase to hang around as a backup while Schoen evaluates & acquires what he hopes is a championship-level QB, then that works.
Except of course he already signed Taylor to do that next year...
Quote:
In comment 15840503 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15840494 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 15840488 giantstock said:
Quote:
Sy has said plenty of negative things about Jones too. Or does the "he doesn't have a quick mind" quote not count any more either? Even during camp he expressed concerns about Jones
Yes you are right!! I 100% agree. But he has alsoo said "HE CAN DO IT!"
But that haters don't say this, do they? They just say basically "HE's a bum get rid of him."
SO for those of us that listen to SY with the possibility of "HE CAN DO IT" maybe you aren't a hater but you label us "A DJones lover" but yet all we're doing is agreeing with Sy that he still has a shot.
The haters have closed their mind with DJ having a shot. Look at Christian's post. His implication here is clear isn't it? DJones is NOT a championship QB so why have him? Isn't he subtly saying with his questions and reading his past posts that he has all but closed his mind on Jones?
I've said for a couple years that Jones ceiling is a poor copy of Goff. With everything perfect around him he may get carried deep in the playoffs, but he's not going to be the "why". And now at this point the Giants also need to weigh paying him on a 2nd contract to maybe continue to develop. IMO the cost-benfefit doesn't work out in Jones favor
If you can't find anyone better then why not just give him a 1 year deal? The Giants are not winning a championship next year either.
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
Even a 1 year commitment would be too much imo. We have a bridge QB already on the roster with TT, so either draft a QB or just start Taylor
Quote:
Per the morons on BBI.
It is. DJ doesn’t have the ability to will receivers open like the elite QBs do.
This is what I am talking about.
Moronic posts like you made comparing Jones to elite QB"s.
SO Foles was elite? Jimmy G and Tannehill and Goff all get to super bowl or one round before it - and because they aren't elite either the team should've just given up to start the season or not traded for Tanehill because only elites are allowed?????????
So until I find the championship QB, why get rid of him unless you find someone better?
***** While Jimmy G isn't a championship QB, at least he helped them get to Super Bowl and another time to NFC Championship game. You wouldn't take that?????
So the answer to the question is Jones a championship-level QB. Your answer is no, his ceiling with a loaded offense is Jimmy Garoppolo.
So what’s your answer to the very simple question: how many dollars and years should the Giants bet on him?
Quote:
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
Even a 1 year commitment would be too much imo. We have a bridge QB already on the roster with TT, so either draft a QB or just start Taylor
Well again you are going away from what SY has just recently said. More on that:
------------------------
But first off I think it completely nuts to not try to start a season with your best unless you think Giants are in complete rebuild mode. If that is the case, you have given up on this year completely if they win??????????
What about if they win? They are 3-1 and you would dump Jones and go with Taylor?
=====================
Anyhow this is what SY recently said:
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
=========================
So reading this coming from a pro scout that is loves the Giants vs your opinion of next year you deliberately don’t want to potentially play your best QB that you could’ve signed for 1 year in favor of a tank--
so taking a step back comparing the tow ideas one forma pro scout vs yours of tanking --
and yet posters like you ridicule is for agreeing with the pro scout????
Are you kidding?????????
Quote:
In comment 15840527 giantstock said:
Quote:
The Giants should ALWAYS want to try to play their best to start a season unless you think team needs to 100% tank, shouldn't they?
So additionally does this make me a Jones lover that I might want one more year IF IF IF he shows something more consistent like what he did with Dallas?
Even a 1 year commitment would be too much imo. We have a bridge QB already on the roster with TT, so either draft a QB or just start Taylor
Well again you are going away from what SY has just recently said. More on that:
------------------------
But first off I think it completely nuts to not try to start a season with your best unless you think Giants are in complete rebuild mode. If that is the case, you have given up on this year completely if they win??????????
What about if they win? They are 3-1 and you would dump Jones and go with Taylor?
=====================
Anyhow this is what SY recently said:
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
=========================
So reading this coming from a pro scout that is loves the Giants vs your opinion of next year you deliberately don’t want to potentially play your best QB that you could’ve signed for 1 year in favor of a tank--
so taking a step back comparing the tow ideas one forma pro scout vs yours of tanking --
and yet posters like you ridicule is for agreeing with the pro scout????
Are you kidding?????????
I've agreed that Jones played well on Monday, but at this point in his career it was like putting $2 worth of gas in an empty tank: didn't move the needle much
The part I find ridiculous is the constant and consistent ignoring of all the bad and going "see Jones actually is good!"
Other than than Mrs. Lincoln, didn't you enjoy the play?
Quote:
But I think with the right ammunition behind him he cna get to a championship game.
So until I find the championship QB, why get rid of him unless you find someone better?
***** While Jimmy G isn't a championship QB, at least he helped them get to Super Bowl and another time to NFC Championship game. You wouldn't take that?????
So the answer to the question is Jones a championship-level QB. Your answer is no, his ceiling with a loaded offense is Jimmy Garoppolo.
So what’s your answer to the very simple question: how many dollars and years should the Giants bet on him?
That's not my answer. Can you at least pretend to be fair if you are going to reply?
So I have ot ask you - was Tennessee a loaded roster?
You want to frame this a certain way, don’t you? That was my point of your posts. You've now deliberately avoided Tannehill, haven’t you?
As long as you acknowledge I can get to AT LEAST the NFC Finals with a non-loaded roster - which shows you are being fair in our discussion - then I can easily answer your question. Please acknowledge.
=============
And when I do answer your question my assumption will be that the Giants are not playoff caliber next year with Taylor nor is there much they would love in FA at this moment unless you want me to consider something different/ different factors?
Because in order to determine how much he is going to make and how many years, I have to know the expectation of the Giants team, correct?
Quote:
I've agreed that Jones played well on Monday, but at this point in his career it was like putting $2 worth of gas in an empty tank: didn't move the needle much
The part I find ridiculous is the constant and consistent ignoring of all the bad and going "see Jones actually is good!"
Other than than Mrs. Lincoln, didn't you enjoy the play?
So you agree with most of us that if Jones plays more like he did on Monday night, then he would probably be worth signing, right?
Quote:
In comment 15840556 giantstock said:
Quote:
I've agreed that Jones played well on Monday, but at this point in his career it was like putting $2 worth of gas in an empty tank: didn't move the needle much
The part I find ridiculous is the constant and consistent ignoring of all the bad and going "see Jones actually is good!"
Other than than Mrs. Lincoln, didn't you enjoy the play?
So you agree with most of us that if Jones plays more like he did on Monday night, then he would probably be worth signing, right?
No, my criteria for extending Jones was the QB equivalent of Aaron Judges season. Monday was good, but not that good.
I also don't expect Jones to play like that on a consistent basis.
You’re right, I shouldn’t put words in your mouth. I was trying to surmise an answer since you don’t have the balls to answer the simple question directly.
Let’s try again:
Is Jones a championship-level QB? Yes or No
How many years and dollars should the Giants extend him to find out: Years/Dollars
And just for your reference, I’m not interested in what other teams have done with other players. That’s not particularly relevant to my question.
Quote:
That's not my answer. Can you at least pretend to be fair if you are going to reply?
You’re right, I shouldn’t put words in your mouth. I was trying to surmise an answer since you don’t have the balls to answer the simple question directly.
Let’s try again:
Is Jones a championship-level QB? Yes or No
How many years and dollars should the Giants extend him to find out: Years/Dollars
And just for your reference, I’m not interested in what other teams have done with other players. That’s not particularly relevant to my question.
Again oyu are trying to fight with me hahahahahaha - c'mon.
Read my post to you at 11:02 am. What does it say about Jones being a championship QB? So what's this "Let's try again stuff?" hahahahaha c'mon.
------------------------
And in regards to question 2- ifI do answer your question my assumption will be that the Giants are not playoff caliber next year with Taylor nor is there much they would love in FA at this moment unless you want me to consider something different/ different factors?
Because in order to determine how much he is going to make and how many years, I have to know the expectation of the Giants team, correct?
It's simple - when you ask about next year there has to be parameters. Above are my assumptions if okay with you I can give you a number and years.
You can make any guess on the circumstances the Giants find themselves at the end of the year to answer the second question.
You can make any guess on the circumstances the Giants find themselves at the end of the year to answer the second question.
Franchise Tag him $30m 1 year only.
This is IF IF IF he shows thsi year he is decent enough / pretty good unless our record is 6 wins or less then I'm in the QB draft hunt.
IMO my opinion is possibly inn alignment with SY if Jones shows like he did with Dallas. Agree? If not, why?
I don';t think Sy agrees with your opinion at this moment.
Let me quote SY - he says "HE CAN DO IT." He has said that.
Further sy has said after the latest game:
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
First I don’t know why that was such a hard set of questions to respond to, but second at least you answered. I think that’s bananas, but I respect you for at least taking a stance.
First I don’t know why that was such a hard set of questions to respond to, but second at least you answered. I think that’s bananas, but I respect you for at least taking a stance.
You've acknowledged that you basically misrepresented my post by putting words in my mouth and I'm basically in alignment with SY with what he is saying after the Dallas game and you are calling my opinion bananas?
I have to do with poster like you because you do misrepresent posts when it comes to Jones. You even acknowledged your misrepresentation to me. SO ofc I have to ask you a lot of other questions.
hahahahhahahahaa
The words you put in my mouth misrepresented my post.
And you're right with posters like you it' can't be a simple yes or no because you tend to misrepresent posts.
And again I love how you called my opinion bananas and yet I' appear to be more in alignment with SY while you feel it’s okay to misrepresent posts.
Again I can't give posts like you a simple yes or no sometimes. Because you do do it.
IMO you Jones blasters do this frequently.
Can I ask not to start a fight? But if Jones played like he did in Dallas, and QB is the most important position on the Football Filed, why wouldn't you want to give him a 1 year deal?
What's the downside to a 1 year deal in which the Giants are not a Super Bowl contender anyway?
I think 31.5M is a lot of money to sink into a guy you’re not going to invest in. It’s bad resource allocation.
If Jones proves he can be a super game manager + a dual threat, I think there is a long term deal out there for him. Either in NY or elsewhere.
My biggest concern with Jones is ceiling. I think the odds of paying an OK QB good money, and having enough to surround him with a great team, is as low as finding a franchise guy in the first round.
My desire to move on from Jones is simply about math and odds.
I think 31.5M is a lot of money to sink into a guy you’re not going to invest in. It’s bad resource allocation.
If Jones proves he can be a super game manager + a dual threat, I think there is a long term deal out there for him. Either in NY or elsewhere.
My biggest concern with Jones is ceiling. I think the odds of paying an OK QB good money, and having enough to surround him with a great team, is as low as finding a franchise guy in the first round.
My desire to move on from Jones is simply about math and odds.
Okay so it looks like we are not arguing? I thought you blasted me for 1 year? Or are you blasting me for sign him for 1 year but don't FT him? Simple math though long term I agree with you. Heck, he got hurt again today.
And if he's is good this year and is best possible option, 1 year not so bad.
What a pathetic player KG is.